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a) nothing  b) nfl.com, they are everywhere around the net I know most have cooled on Mangini a bit but he's still way overrated around here...there are still guys talking about a "good" HC (or just look at my sig) or think he has "improved" this team (which imho he has not, in fact I think, stats aside, he has set us even further back with his horrible offseason last spring) ...for me, he's a great ST-Coach, a bad DC and an incredibad HC...I wouldn't even want him to be DC here Same applies to Ryan...he's Grantham all over again on these boards...a likeable guy (I really DO like him) but just a bad coach...every Raiders-fan I know was happy he was let go...the RAIDERS !! ...yeah, he brings some style-change since he likes to throw blitzes around....but he's just not a good coach, how many times did his blitzes go wrong and we were torched by underneath-dump offs last season? It was a running-gag and pretty easy to exploit...we had waaay more sacks than in years past and still allowed a lot more yds....if you think that's a coincidence, go ahead
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Hm. I dont' see an answer there. Quote:
My "bar" for improvement would be "better than Romeo, who was a bad coach"....if he makes THIS bar his team isn't as bad as Romeo's, that easy...which still is far from good and even average btw
So if that happens, Mangini still isn't a good coach, right? This is weak sauce, DJB.
I know its hard to see through all the blood in your eyes, but I wasn't asking for 20 minutes of your stat grades.
I asked what place the team needed to be in in ONE specific category that YOU put a ton of weight in. Even for you, this shouldn't be hard.
You are afraid of the first 4 games? You can use whatever mitigating factors or excuses you like, I don't care. Name your number. What should the team do in the first quarter of the season for you to be impressed?
The only reason I used offensive production was your statement above. In my opinion this team is in a much, much better position to succeed. You don't. I'm willing to back up my opinion, I don't know if you are.
If you don't want to, that's fine. I can enjoy you backtracking as the season goes on just as well. 
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Quote:
we had waaay more sacks than in years past and still allowed a lot more yds....if you think that's a coincidence, go ahead
could that have anything to do with our poor tackling secondary? the main area of focus this offseason?
also, since Mangini and Romeo both have 4 years of HC experience, perhaps you should compare their overall bodies of work?
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look, you might be right. maybe mangini won't pan out and we'll have to start over from a coaching perspective, yet again. however for me, in year1, the HC main responsibility is to install his schemes, his personality, and get everyone to buy-in with it and show continual improvement throughout the year.
i personally think mangini did all those things. yes, i wish he did many things differently (and I am glad we have people in charge of player acquisition separate from the coaching staff), but you gloss over anything positive he has done.
you constantly claim that the change in blocking scheme was due to Holmgren, even though Holmgren didn't come onto the team until after the KC game (and it's unlikely he was doing much input to the coaching staff at that point).
you constantly point to the teams in our 4 game winning streak being poor, while not giving credit to beating 2 teams that were legitimately in the playoff race until we beat them (Pitt and JAX).
you point out the yards we give up, rather than noting our ST force the other teams to have a longer field and that our points given up per game was good despite the yardage (I prefer dominant to bend-dont-break, but giving up less points in any manner is good).
mangini did not have a great year last year, but there were signs of improvement, and there is reason for hope that we are building something. it can't be more than hope until we see results on the field, but your decries of failure are nothing more than that until September as well.
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Quote:
So if that happens, Mangini still isn't a good coach, right? This is weak sauce, DJB.
No, it's bottom line sauce....and if RAC wasn't a good coach why should I consider Mangini getting the same produtcion?
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The only reason I used offensive production was your statement above. In my opinion this team is in a much, much better position to succeed. You don't. I'm willing to back up my opinion, I don't know if you are.
If you don't want to, that's fine. I can enjoy you backtracking as the season goes on just as well.
Lol, learn to read: I fully expect them to "improve" since 32nd is hard NOT to...to imrpove from 32nd to 24th Offense still is bad and NOT better than Romeo...bad is still bad isn't it? Who cares if there's "improvement" from horrible to bad after dragging the team down from bad to horrible in his 1st year....as I repeatedly said: you guys buying into his BS-"process" rhetoric (which he uses to buy time) just to LOWER your EXPECTATIONS...haven't they been near the cellar to begin with? Now he's asking you tu go down to the cellar with them again....now that's a great way to set up "improvement" 
It's like you or me running a job we don't know anything about and then suck at it but improve after time but still suck at it...so what? what's good for? who cares? especially if you're not better than the guy you replaced and who sucked too at it
Mangini is a good coach when his team's good..that's what I liked about Romeo...at least the guy was honest and not throwing "process" rhetoric around to disguise his shortcomings
@nologo
Quote:
could that have anything to do with our poor tackling secondary? the main area of focus this offseason?
That's a bad argument...Wright, McD, Adams, Sorenson, Pool all played under RAC too....if anything their play and esp. tackling re-gressed last season
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Quote:
@nologo
Quote:
could that have anything to do with our poor tackling secondary? the main area of focus this offseason?
That's a bad argument...Wright, McD, Adams, Sorenson, Pool all played under RAC too....if anything their play and esp. tackling re-gressed last season
or perhaps their tackling was more exposed due to our more blitz happy scheme that was resulting in our increased sacks?
maybe ryan was trying to light a fire under the secondary to get them to improve in it, but they failed, so we brought in a better set for what he needs to accomplish?
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Quote:
I don't know about you but I expect our Offense to suck as much as last season, esp. the passing Offense..
Then...get ready for it....
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Lol, learn to read: I fully expect them to "improve" since 32nd is hard NOT to...
You are too easy. C'mon, man. Have a drink, take your blood pressure medicine, whatever. Think about it and give me a straightforward standard to meet. This is not 2008. Romeo has nothing to do with it, other than quantifying your standard, if there actually is one.
The idea here is that a fan CAN draw some conclusions after 1/4 of a season. You sure did last year. I think you don't want to be nailed down. That is exactly what I mean by weak sauce. You are about 150 lines of text into this discussion without a straight answer.
What does the team need to accomplish in the first 4 games for you admit Mangini is coaching well?
I really don't see how this could in any way be an unreasonable request...
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Let it go hooter....he's a guy that just wants to complain. And even if he gives you a number, which he won't, he'll back off it later saying that the competition we played was weak/someone was injured in their defense.
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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You just don't get it....which part of "32nd or 24th, both suck" didnt you get? We can improve AND still suck...see I expect us to improve from 32d Offense which the odds are pretty good BUT still suck at 24th and worse level ...and just stop it with your useless "1st 4 games"-BS...Mangini will get another FULL year anyway and I'd like to evaluate the full season to see if the team improved to a level BETTER when he took over, NOT last year It's really not my problem if you have reading comprehension skills pal, sorry....it's pretty clear what I stated oh and  at "not giving numbers"...that's just hilarious...I gave you tons and stated what he has to do to get to X and Y
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You say you need a whole season to make a judgment, which is ludicrous in the sense that you not only made a judgment before last season, but now this one as well which, of course, when I called you out on you backtracked. You don't need a quarter of a season, or even a game to "evaluate" the team.
I specifically asked an easy question, which you won't answer since you know it'll put you in a corner. We all know you will keep on hammering Mangini, I hoped you could at least set a standard for him to meet You never did.
You're obviously dodging. I'm not going to hijack this thread anymore. I started another one. Of course you are free to fill it with your crap arguments.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
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just one note, please remember POINTS are more important than YARDS. Browns were 29th in scoring points last year Browns were 21st in giving points up last year. NFL Stats no, neither of those are acceptable, but this is just another example of things not being as dire as you make them out to be. yes, special teams are an important part of that discrepancy as they are an important part of the game (as you mock us picking up players to play STs and then see how STs help our team).
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That's because we have one of the best ST-units of the league (I already said that's where Mangini "excels")...and this unit was already very good BEFORE he got here....and no I don't give Mangini much credit for Cribbs having his career year in his "contract" year...if not for the 2 KR-TD game vs KC Mangini probably would not be the HC anymore, Cribbs was on this team before....we didn't win those games he basically won for the team with Mangini's great gameday managing or gameplans/play-calling...having an "eye" for ST-players and bringing in LOADS of them isn't a compliment if you look at the grand scheme of things That's all nice and stuff....but you win at least 14 out of 16 games on Offense and Defense..that's way more important, just look how much money a HC gets, then DC/OC and then ST-Coach...it's like that for a reason. We regressed on O and D going against a much easier schedule, that's fact....that's where you make or break your team in the long term, O and D...Steelers won SBowls having one of the worst ST-units in the league for years now...our ST play was stellar, no doubt but won't/can't be expected to get any better. Also, if I remember right...the ST-Coach, Seely?, was re-tained ond NOT brought in by Mangini, right? The guy is doing and did a nice job and retaining him was probably the best coaches decision Mangini made... Kokinis was a big fail, Daboll looks like an apprentice (getting a WCO tutor from Holmgren now in Haskell) and Ryan has failed with one of the worst franchises in football and is way overhyped around here because he's a) more likeable than both Mangini/Daboll and b) even though pretty bad himself is still more competent than both.....a 4'5 tall dwarf isn't a giant just because he's lined up next to 2 4'2 dwarfs...he's still a dwarf
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Seeley was poached from NE where he served in the same capacity. it was considered quite the coup by Mangini (his contract had expired as NE does with their coaching staff and Mangini jumped on it and for whatever reason Seeley wanted to get out of the Belly shadow). http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2009/01/14/browns_are_zeroing_in_on_seely/and like I said, it's all about pts for and pts against. if ST help those numbers, then great.
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Quote:
Browns were 29th in scoring points last year
This is amazing to me that there were 3 teams worse than us at scoring points. Until the last 4 games this was by far the worse offensive team I have ever laid eyes on.
"The medium for the bad news was ESPN, which figured. The network represents much of what is loud, obnoxious and empty in sports today."
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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My fault...thought Seely was with us before...Mangini deserves full props for getting him then....I'd still rather have competent O+D Coordinators and a bum ST-Coach than vice versa
Trying to get this back to topic:
Why are you guys asking for UDFA-WRs? This WR-group is far from stellar but you won't find much better talent than Mitchell, Steptoe and J.Allen there....I would have tried to get B.White or McGaha in to compete but those guys hardly would be long term solutions...Cribbs, Massa, Robo and Stuckey are almost certain locks to make the team...Steptoe, Allena nd Mitchell will fight for the last roster spot there
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Our 10 undrafted free agents: Quote:
Casey Bender OL 6-5 295 South Dakota State; Benjamin Burney DB 5-11 205 Colorado; Chris Chancellor DB 5-9 180 Clemson; Auston English LB 6-3 250 Oklahoma; Johnathan Haggerty WR 6-1 195 Southwest Oklahoma State; Swanson Miller DL 6-4 310 Oklahoma State; Dion Morton WR 5-8 160 Colorado State; Joel Reinders OL 6-7 320 Waterloo; Aaron Valentin WR 6-1 205 Purdue and Troy Wagner TE 6-6 265 Indiana.
National Football Post
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Wow, totally forgot about Burney...I was sure he'd be drafted...he probably didn't check out medically...he's a CB/FS zone-guy with good ST game....I think he has a good shot at getting Francies' roster spot, who's more suited for the outside-CB position....but we have added Brown and Haden now, so I think we'll be looking to round out the CBs with more speedy nickel-dime guys who are good ST...that's Burney's and Chancellor's chance http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/565767Burney (5-foot-10 5/8, 202 pounds) ran 4.38 and 4.45 in the 40, had a 39-inch vertical leap, 10-foot, 1-inch broad jump, 4.15 short shuttle, 6.71 three-cone drill and 16 reps in the bench press. - Gil Brandt, NFL.com The son of Washington Redskins defensive line coach Jacob Burney (re-joining former long-time Broncos boss Mike Shanahan), this Colorado defensive back was a bit under the radar after missing the 2008 season due to injury. Now scouts are very interested in acquiring his services. Burney stayed in-state to play for the Buffaloes, earning playing time in 11 games as a true freshman, making six tackles and intercepting a pass against New Mexico State. He took part in all 12 games in 2006, getting two starts at free safety and racking up 23 stops, one for loss. Moving to corner for his junior year, he started every game, made 55 tackles and broke up eight passes. He missed the entire 2008 season due to surgeries on both shoulders and wrists, but came back with a vengeance in '09: 73 tackles, three for loss, sack, two interceptions (one returned for a touchdown), four pass breakups, two forced fumbles. With safety size and corner speed, scouts really started buzzing about Burney after his exceptional pro day (4.39-second 40-yard dash, 39-inch vertical) showed off his athleticism. If doctors sign off on his shoulders, wrists and knee (high school injury), then this son of a coach could find himself one of the draft's surprise picks as a versatile defensive back (zone corner/free safety) and special teams contributor. Analysis Read & React: Instinctual player, good route recognition in coverage to jump the play or dislodge the ball with a big hit. Also reacts quickly; immediately accelerates to balls thrown in front of him. Does not give up on plays run away from him.Man Coverage: Has versatility to line up in the slot, can flip his hips to turn and run when playing off. Uses long arms to press effectively, though he will guess wrong on first move, leaving himself vulnerable to crossing his feet. Comes off his man quickly when playing off to take out underneath routes. Sometimes gets washed out or loses his trail when peeking into the backfield. Zone Coverage: Good awareness in zone, keeps one eye on his receivers' routes and the other in the backfield. Smooth pedal moving back into the centerfielder position. Plants and drives to the ball well, gets there as or just after the ball arrives.Closing/Recovery: Generally stays low when moving in space, able to change directions easily. Good burst to the receiver when the ball is in the air. Chases plays to the opposite side of the field. Usually takes solid angles to the ball, but will force the play inside when overrunning the play. Takes away the home run gain with speed to the sideline. Has the speed and agility to catch up with receiver if beaten when pressing. Run Support: Keeps containment, moves well laterally while engaged and sheds block to grab the ballcarrier. Also reacts to the ball well when playing deep; takes a good angle and can adjust to elusive backs. Avoids receiver blocks while keeping an eye in the backfield when coming downhill at free safety. Tackling: Secure wrap-up tackler in space; has length and upper-body strength to bring down most ballcarriers on his own. Bends knees and breaks down to corral elusive ballcarriers. Gets his helmet on the ball when coming downhill, and brings his hips. Keeps his feet moving into and after contact. Goes through ballcarrier, will plant him into the ground - then tell him about it. Has potential to be a special teams ace.Intangibles: Plays hard and comes with bad intentions. Good bloodlines; father is an NFL defensive line coach.
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His is probably the most glowing scouting report I've ever seen. Did his agent write this? If he played in the big 12 and wasn't drafted, he must be absolutely broken. Here's to hoping he's not. 
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Quote:
how did we even find this guy?
YouTube helped Browns rookie get signed
Posted by Michael David Smith on May 2, 2010 1:17 PM ET
Joel Reinders went from playing eight games of college football in Canada to signing a free agent contract with the Cleveland Browns -- thanks in large part to YouTube.
The 6-foot-8, 320-pound Reinders, who started playing football only when his basketball career at the University of Waterloo fizzled, originally had his agent put highlights on YouTube because he was hoping a Canadian Football League team might draft him. But now he's getting a shot in the NFL.
Browns coach Eric Mangini says he didn't have to look at Reinders for long before he knew he had a talented athlete.
''One of the coaches has a friend in Canada who said they were considering taking him in the first round of the [CFL] draft," Mangini told the Akron Beacon Journal. "It's hard sometimes to evaluate those players, because you don't have that much exposure to the schools. But there's so much raw material to work with, we thought he would be a great candidate. A guy like that with time and experience could work out great.''
Like all undrafted free agents, Reinders is going to have a tough time making the 53-man roster. But he says he's proud just to have made it this far.
''Two years ago, I had never played a snap of football,'' he said. ''Being at an NFL minicamp . . . looking back, there's no way I could have imagined that in a million years.''
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You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
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I love stories like this.. someone out of nowhere gets a shot at an NFL career..
Hope the kid makes it. Good for him, good for us. that's one helluva big kid...Gheesh...
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Damanshot
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A kid I was curious about I saw in the vids from the mini-camp named Robby Parris. Looks like he's only in for a tryout but the short clips they showed, he peaked my interest.
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Reinders has a great punch, and some great size. He can get easily beat by an average speed rusher.
Even though he is tall as hell, I wonder if there is any thoughts to trying him at Guard?
Or perhaps Tight End? With his basketball background, he should instinctively know how to use his body to block guys out, and with his size it'd be like having Shaq as a TE.
You'd have a mighty nice Jumbo Package with that, lol!
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2010/05/former_tide_star_leigh_tiffin.htmlFormer Tide star Leigh Tiffin puts best foot forward, agrees to deal with Browns By Gentry Estes, Mobile Press-Register May 04, 2010, 6:33AM TUSCALOOSA -- The Cleveland Browns thought enough of former Alabama place-kicker Leigh Tiffin to ask him to stay around for a while longer. On the strength of a tryout this past weekend at the Browns' mini-camp, Tiffin said he agreed to a free-agent deal offered by the organization. He'll officially sign when he returns to the team in two weeks. "It went real well. They said they were really impressed with what I did and definitely wanted to bring me back," Tiffin said Monday. "It's a good step. I figure I've got a pretty good chance to hang around there." The Browns had three specialists trying out at the mini-camp. Tiffin was the only one invited back. He's now likely to make it to training camp in August with the team. He's unlikely to beat out Cleveland place-kicker Phil Dawson, an 11-year veteran who is the franchise's all-time leader in field-goal percentage (82.8 percent) and is the third-leading point-scorer (897) in Browns' history. But just having the opportunity to continue to kick is worthwhile at this stage. Dawson, for instance, was signed and waived twice by teams in 1998 as an undrafted free agent before landing with Cleveland. "You go through camp with them, you know you're going to get a lot better," Tiffin said. "Regardless of whether or not they keep you, it really increases your chances of ending up somewhere else. It's a really competitive business. You've got to hang in there and see how it goes." The son of former Tide kicker Van Tiffin, Leigh arrived at Alabama as a walk-on and exited as an All-American, Lou Groza Award finalist and the program's all-time leader in field goals and points. He is one of four undrafted Alabama seniors confirmed to have landed free-agent deals. He joins tight end Colin Peek (Atlanta Falcons), defensive end Lorenzo Washington (Dallas Cowboys) and linebacker Cory Reamer (New York Jets). Linebacker Eryk Anders (Browns), punter P.J. Fitzgerald (St. Louis Rams), running back Roy Upchurch (Baltimore Ravens) and safety Justin Woodall (Chicago Bears) were also invited to team tryouts.
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) The *OFFICIAL* Undrafted Free
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