DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Ryan Tannehill

That's what I've been saying all along.

The kid needs time for multiple reasons.

Now that the media has inflated his public perception as that of franchise savior, he and his team are going to have to either make a publicly difficult decision to keep him on the bench...or he's going to come in and play and see how it goes.

Also I would sit Tannehill if he came here until the bye week.

Even if we drafted him at 4.

I want him to see what happens when the Steelers/Ravens/Bengals come into town.

I don't want it to overwhelm him and kill his confidence.

I'd probably say that for every QB in this draft except for Luck.

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I'd probably say that for every QB in this draft except for Luck.

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I'm in complete agreement with you and Mourg in that regard. Luck is the only QB who can walk right into the league and start. RG3 and Tannehill shouldn't come in and start. The good news is that Holmgren doesn't strike me as the kinda guy who will cave and put one of these rook's in right outa the gate. Now towards the end of their first year? Sure, get some experience for the guy heading into the second year.

I'd also say there's bound to be a hint of truth in what Dj says about a QB competition. There will be a faction who still love McCoy. However, I don't believe that'd be a big deal if Griffin were brought in. He's just as likable as Colt and would help people forget about him. Tannehill, on the other hand, doesn't have that "wow!" factor so the odds he'd not be able to shake the "McCoy factor" are much greater. I think if we took Tannehill, it'd be better to ship McCoy out. Griffin? Nah, keep McCoy.

I agree with that.

OK, it's only two games, but here's what I was able to find on YouTube for the "every Pass/Run" for Tannehill from this year. I didn't think it would be fair to evaluate him on the previous year vs. LSU (unless he did great, then I'd check it out.)

The biggest thing I hear going for Tannehill is about his experience with a pro style offense and taking snaps under center. He are his "every snap" vs. Northwestern and Arkansas for this year.



Here are ALL of the passes completed or dropped which were snapped from under center that weren't screens or dumps.

dropped skinny post/slant
one pass on 10 yd out route
one slant route
threw behind wide open Fuller on deep pass for TD.
good play action, receiver wiiiide open

Here are the things that I really didn't like from this clip:

terrible pass rolling out right at LB, dropped INT
underthrew TE on PA rollout, INT
frequently missed on dumps and screens



Again, all the completed passes or drops from under center that were not dumps or screens:

10yd comeback complete after stumbling in 5 step drop
underthrown pass not caught on hook, WR slid to ground to try to catch it
nice throw on hook route for 8 yd gain to covered receiver

Things I really didn't like:

waaaay short on deep pass (10 yd underthrown) for INT
missed wide open swope on rollout right off of play action. No defender within 7 yards, receiver only 15 yards from QB
ran on 3rd and ten with 1:21 left in 4th quarter in Ark territory down 7 with no pressure!

I also found a highlight package for the Baylor/A&M game this year. I'm not going to knock the quantity of passes completed from under center since it's not an every-snap package.



I did see more plays that I liked here from under center:

nice cross to swope around 1:15
nice pass to covered swope over middle at 5:20
nice deep comeback off of play action at 6:40
underthrown deep pass to receiver who split 2x coverage, WRs beat DBs by 10 yards

Also saw Griffin @ 4:40, PA from under center, nails wide open #16 in stride.

The point of all this:
Tannehill gets a lot of credit for "playing in a pro style offense" and taking snaps under center. He allegedly has good footwork. I'm not an expert in that, but one of the six completed passes I saw from under center (again, not counting screens and dump-offs) across TWO FULL GAMES he stumbled and almost sacked himself in a 5-step drop.

Griffin gets knocked for his wide receivers being too open, but here two of Tannehill's six completions from under center (vs. NW and ARK) were to receivers 10 yards open. One of those passes was behind the receiver and should have been a TD. There were also some missed passes to wide open receivers.

He did look considerably better in the Baylor game under center.

If those two games were a good sample of A&M's offense for the season, then they take about 75%-80% of their passing snaps from shotgun. Here is Tannehill's completion percentage for the year, and how it matches up against the rest of the Wild West conference:

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RK	PLAYER	TEAM	ATT	COMP	PCT
1**	Robert Griffin III, QB	BAY	402	291	72.4
2	Brandon Weeden, QB	OKST	564	408	72.3
3	Seth Doege, QB	TTU	581	398	68.5
4	Jordan Webb, QB	KU	281	179	63.7
5	James Franklin, QB	MIZZ	376	238	63.3
6	Landry Jones, QB	OKLA	562	355	63.2
7***	Ryan Tannehill, QB	TA&M	531	327	61.6
8	Collin Klein, QB	KSU	281	161	57.3
9	Steele Jantz, QB	ISU	259	138	53.3
10	Jared Barnett, QB	ISU	220	110	50

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And QB rating within the Big XII

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RK	PLAYER	TEAM	RAT
1**	Robert Griffin III, QB	BAY	189.5
2	Brandon Weeden, QB	OKST	159.8
3	Landry Jones, QB	OKLA	141.6
4	James Franklin, QB	MIZZ	139.9
5	Seth Doege, QB	TTU	138.9
6***	Ryan Tannehill, QB	TA&M	133.2
7	Jordan Webb, QB	KU	126.7
8	Collin Klein, QB	KSU	125.6
9	Steele Jantz, QB	ISU	106.8
10	Jared Barnett, QB	ISU	99.4

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And then here he is in comparison with the rest of the NCAA:

QB Rating:
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RK	PLAYER	TEAM	RAT
1	Russell Wilson, QB	WIS	191.8
2**	Robert Griffin III, QB	BAY	189.5
3	Kellen Moore, QB	BSU	175.2
4	Case Keenum, QB	HOU	174
5**	Andrew Luck, QB	STAN	169.7
6	Terrance Owens, QB	TOL	169.2
7	Keith Price, QB	WASH	161.9
8	Matt Barkley, QB	USC	161.2
9	Brandon Weeden, QB	OKST	159.8
10	Bryn Renner, QB	UNC	159.4
…			
53	Ryan Aplin, QB	ARST	133.6
54	Nathan Scheelhaase, QB	ILL	133.4
55	Tommy Rees, QB	ND	133.4
56***	Ryan Tannehill, QB	TA&M	133.2
57	Tanner Price, QB	WAKE	132.8

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Completion Percentage:
Code:

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RK	PLAYER	TEAM	ATT	COMP	PCT
1	Kellen Moore, QB	BSU	439	326	74.3
2	Dan Persa, QB	NW	297	218	73.4
3	Russell Wilson, QB	WIS	309	225	72.8
4**	Robert Griffin III, QB	BAY	402	291	72.4
5	Brandon Weeden, QB	OKST	564	408	72.3
6	Terrance Owens, QB	TOL	230	166	72.2
7**	Andrew Luck, QB	STAN	404	288	71.3
8	Case Keenum, QB	HOU	603	428	71
9	Nick Foles, QB	ARIZ	560	387	69.1
10	Matt Barkley, QB	USC	446	308	69.1
…					
51	Chandler Harnish, QB	NIU	384	237	61.7
52	Pete Thomas, QB	CSU	261	161	61.7
53***	Ryan Tannehill, QB	TA&M	531	327	61.6
54	Zach Collaros, QB	CIN	272	166	61
55	Marshall Lobbestael, QB	WSU	341	208	61

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I don't understand what it is that people see in his output that warrants him being in the conversation of the top half of the first round. If someone else has some better performances they can share, please post them. I'd really like to feel good that there is a third great QB prospect in the draft, but I haven't seen him yet. The guy I like most after Luck and RGIII is either Weeden or Osweiler

1st half-- worst half i've ever seen him play. Also, rainy day.
2nd play -- how you throw the deep ball
1:00 under center nails deep pass, contested against safety
1:40 under center, moves in pocket, completes pass for 1st down
bad pick end of 1st half
4:30... run-first QB?
4:50... run-first QB? nice pump to freeze LB
6:03... how you throw the deep ball

This is against Texas. It's probably the worst game I saw him play, and I said so the day it happened. However, it does show two nice passes from under center, as well as showing the deep accuracy difference between him and Tannehill. Bear in mind, this is in the rain, too. I'd have posted this in the RGIII thread if there was one.

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I'm not disagreeing with you, I've never bothered to watch Tannehill and I have no horse in this race. But, my question to you is, how, from simply watching recorded TV footage, can you exactly tell what a QB's progression is? How do you know definitively what his 1, 2, and 3 reads are? How do you know what the play design is?

The main reasons I'm asking is that a) I'm doubtful that any normal fan could be accurate in this, but much more importantly, b) I would *love* to be able to do this myself, so please share how you do it if you have a methodology for it.

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Man, I'd love to be able to PM you the great secret to answer your question, but the truth of it is that it's right there in front of you to see.

Lemme start with a ridiculous example then lead you to the answer, hehe.

If I'm facing West and I wanna throw East, if I don't turn around to do it, I'm going to break my back in the process.

Seeing a guy work through his progressions is nothing more than watching his head then his footwork. You cannot throw into the left flat if you're facing the right flat without adjusting your body, and the only way to adjust your body is to start with your feet.

Obviously, watching a guy's head is going to tip you off if he's come to his second read. However, in the case when the secondary receiver is running a route which is rather close in general direction to the first route, if the QB has any chance of not throwing a wounded-duck, he absolutely must move his feet to get his mechanics lined up.

Simply put, you'll see a QB staring at a receiver as he's making his drop, or when he makes his plant before he throws. Let's assume the primary is covered. Really good QB's will then move their feet to adjust their body in order to get into position should his eyes tell him the secondary read is open. QB's who have poor mechanics may move their head first and their bodies second, where they then have to adjust their bodies in order to make an accurate throw.

Even these tapes show more than enough info to tell you if a QB is going to his second read.

NFL draft: Ryan Tannehill is a risky alternative among quarterbacks

Published: Monday, March 05, 2012


By Jeff Schudel
JSchudel@News-Herald.com
@jsbrownsinsider

Click to enlarge

Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III are not the only quarterbacks in the draft next month projected to have successful NFL careers.

If team president Mike Holmgren is unwilling to outbid the Redskins in a trade with the Rams that would put Griffin in an orange helmet, the Browns can trade down and get the third-best quarterback in the draft — Ryan Tannehill from Texas A&M.

Tannehill, 6-foot-4, 220 pounds, is bigger and stronger than Colt McCoy, but he has red flags sticking like post-it notes to his scouting report. He broke his foot in January, and he started only 19 career games at quarterback for the Aggies. McCoy had more than twice as many victories in college (45) than Tannehill had starts.

The Colts have the first pick April 26, followed by the Rams, Vikings, Browns, Buccaneers and Redskins.

Most projections have the Browns and Redskins as the only serious players trying to wrest the second pick from the Rams for the right to draft Griffin, the Heisman Trophy winner from Baylor. The Browns have more to offer, starting with the fourth and 22nd picks in the first round, but Redskins owner Dan Snyder usually gets what he wants, and he usually overpays for it.

According to a report in the Sunday edition of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, neither the Browns nor the Redskins are overwhelming the Rams with initial offers. The report says the Browns don’t want to give up the 22nd pick. It also says the Redskins have offered the sixth pick this year and a first-round pick next year, but not their second pick this year.

Bids are likely to climb as the draft draws near, depending on what quarterback-starved teams do in free agency. Also, no trades can be completed until the league season begins March 13.

The Chiefs’ Kyle Orton and the 49ers’ Alex Smith, along with Matt Flynn of the Packers and most likely Peyton Manning of the Colts will be free agents. The Dolphins and Seahawks are also seeking quarterbacks.

The Redskins have had only three winning seasons since Snyder bought the team in 1999 (just one more than the Browns in the same span), in part because Snyder is always looking for a quick fix through free agency. He gets players with star status, but they have not meshed.

Mike Shanahan is Snyder’s sixth full-time coach, and Shanahan could be made to walk the plank if the Redskins don’t reverse their 5-11 season of 2011.

Griffin could lead that turnaround for the Browns or Redskins. He is the hottest commodity in the draft because it is a given the Colts will take Luck, the quarterback from Stanford.

As exciting as it would be to see the Browns get Griffin, there is a point at which Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert would have to say no to the Rams and let the Redskins claim Griffin.

If Tannehill is Plan B for the Browns, they might have to take him higher than is he ranked by most draft analysts, but they wouldn’t have to use the fourth pick on him.

The Rams want to draft tackle Matt Kalil from USC or wide receiver Justin Blackmon from Oklahoma State. Both could be gone if they stay at No. 6 with the first-round pick acquired from Washington.

If the Rams wind up with the Redskins’ No. 6 pick and want to move up to 4, the Browns would be able to accommodate the Rams and make them pay a steep price. The Browns and Rams could swap first-round picks, and the Browns would demand the Rams’ second-round pick (33). In that scenario, the Browns would be picking sixth, 22nd, 33rd and 37th. They might instead get the 39th pick instead of 33rd if the Rams end up with the Redskins’ second pick in a Griffin trade.

Tannehill has huge upside

So what would the Browns be getting if they have to settle for Tannehill? NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock says Tannehill is better than Jake Locker, who went eighth to the Titans last year, and Christian Ponder, who went to the Vikings with the 12th pick. Neither distinguished himself as a rookie last year.

Tannehill did not work out at the combine last month because he is recovering from foot surgery he underwent in January.

“I can see all the attributes of a Locker in Tannehill,” Mayock said. “He’s a big, strong kid that can push the ball down the field. He’s athletic. I like everything about him except for the fact that on tape, I think he stares his receivers down and waits for them to come up before he rips it. That’s typical of a young quarterback without a lot of starts.

“I look at him and say kind of like Jake Locker, he’s going to take a little bit of time. It’s going to take a year or so. Nineteen starts is not a lot of starts for a college quarterback.”

Tannehill went to Texas A&M to play quarterback but was stuck third on the depth chart. His coaches experimented with him at wide receiver at practice, and two days later he was in the starting lineup. Midway through his junior season, he went back to quarterback.

The team that drafts Tannehill is going to have to go through some growing pains with him because of his limited experience. Browns fans have had enough of that with their quarterbacks, but if the Browns don’t get Griffin, the next alternative is Tannehill — unless Holmgren signs Matt Flynn in free agency.

“I was frustrated by the fact that I didn’t get to play quarterback,” Tannehill said at the combine. “It’s what I always wanted to be. So I was frustrated by it, but blessed by the opportunity to be able to play another position. Not a lot of people get to contribute in another way to help their team.

“Even though it wasn’t at the quarterback position, I did get experience playing football and seeing the game out there. I learned a lot from it, and fortunately I was able to get back to where I wanted to be under center.”

Tannehill completed 457 of 734 pass attempts for 5,121 yards and 41 touchdowns in his 19 starts. He threw 20 interceptions. He passed for 3,744 yards with 29 touchdown passes and 10 interceptions in 2011, his only full season as a starter.

NFLDraftScout.com offers this scouting report: “Very good accuracy in the short passing game, puts ball on the numbers or in a place where receiver can make a play after the catch, even when throwing off his back foot. Quite accurate making plays on the run, squares his shoulders throwing in either direction ... Makes intermediate throws to the short side of the field, but too often sails throws over the middle or to the sideline from the pocket …

“Possesses an NFL arm. Gets the ball from one hash to the opposite sideline in a hurry. Has the zip to hit tight windows on short and intermediate throws.”

The report goes on to say Tannehill sees the field well, but he has to work on recognizing coverages and picking up blitzes. Mayock sees that weakness as the downside of making only 19 starts in college.

Reason for concern?

Teams also have to be wary of Tannehill’s injured foot. He said the doctor who performed the surgery told him the healing is ahead of schedule.

Tannehill broke his foot on Jan. 12 on a routine rollout while working out in Florida in preparation for the Senior Bowl on Jan. 28.

“Coming to find out, I probably had a stress fracture there that was kind of a ticking time bomb and just waiting for the right moment to pop,” Tannehill said. “So it was very frustrating the fact that it happened, but it was kind of a blessing in disguise at the same time, because I was able to get it fixed.”

Tannehill is confident he will be able to throw, run and do everything the coaches and scouts ask him to do at the Texas A&M pro day on March 29. The Browns’ front office will be there watching. web page

Maybe it's just me, but that's a bit of a strangely structured article.

There's a TON of draft movement speculation there, having the Rams trade back with the 'Skins then turn right around and trade up with the Browns. That's message board level talk right there. Then the headline is that Tannehill is a risky proposition, but Jeff downplays the foot injury by saying it's ahead of schedule, and poo-pooing Tannehill's shortcomings. For the record, of my criticisms of Tannehill, that foot injury isn't something I'm concerned about.

I don't think he was fully committed to that article. It reads to me that Jeff wanted to say Tannehill is a big risk, but as he put pen to paper he couldn't help but let his like of Tannehill come out, hehe.

Well, as a writer, he has a story in place that he's supposed to write about. It should be a strong enough article that it convinces the reader to seriously consider the point. However, all that article did was make me look at the writer, not Tannehill.

The headline gives the impression that Tannehill is a big risk. Yet in the article, he shrugs aside the foot injury, and shrugs aside his perceived negatives.

Now keep in mind I'm not dissin' his article because I don't agree with his opinion on the player. I've given my opinion of Tannehill. These thoughts of mine have absolutely nothing to do with that. I'm speaking only of the premise of the article and how it reads. He didn't convince me that Tannehill is a big risk. All Jeff did was convince me that Jeff doesn't believe his own headline.

It leads me to believe that Jeff may have written a fairly neutral article and an editor decided it needed a much more provocative headline.

Hehe...Very well could be. However, based on many of the articles we've seen around here for years which contain spelling errors and flat-out bonking of facts, are we even sure there IS an editor?

Yes I've noticed that spell check seems to have made some people WORSE spellers.. It's hard to believe they can't have an English student co-op read this stuff before it comes out.. but that would delay it by 5 minutes.