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Ha ha ha....no need. I many be the worst speller in the history of the world. Sorry, I just laughed at who the names were, two all time greats. But then again, I have trouble spelling Wayne Gretzcy. Gretzky. {edited} 
Last edited by Punchsmack; 02/02/12 11:08 AM.
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Green-Ellis was an UDFA, wasn't he?
The Patriots really spread the ball around to everyone, both passing and running the ball. They don't rely on any one guy to do it all.
Also, how many of those guys were with their original teams? I see a lot of free agents.
Tomlinson was drafted by the Chargers, (1st) and played (starter) for the Jets.
Lynch was drafted by the Bills,(1st) and played (starter) for the Seahawks.
Jones was drafted by the Cardinals, (1st) and played (starter) for the Jets.
Turner was drafted by the Chargers, (5th) and played (starter) for the Falcons.
McGahee was drafted by the Bills, (1st) and played (starter)for the Ravens.
James was drafted by the Colts, (1st) and played (starter) for the Cardinals.
Taylor was drafted by the Ravens, (6th) and played for the Vikings and Bears. (backup)
There are .... what .... 5 of your 1st round picks who played for someone other than their original team in a starting capacity. Ellis-Green was an UDFA, as mentioned above.
That might skew the numbers a little.
Sorry.
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Ha ha ha....no need. I many be the worst speller in the history of the world. Sorry, I just laughed at who the names were, two all time greats. But then again, I have trouble spelling Wayne Gretzcy.
Gretzky. {edited}
No I am sure that I have you beat LOL, Then I went threw 10th grade before I learned that I am dyslexic.
Back to the point of discussion and that I think most would agree that the value today at the RB position is almost an after thought (not really questioned) as to the overall importance to the team.
That's not to say that the running game is of little importance, but rather in the ways you can go about filling that role.
I would argue that a team that is on the cusp is more likely to get more bang for their bucks selecting a RB in the first round, then one trying to build their team around one.
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Back to the point of discussion and that I think most would agree that the value today at the RB position is almost an after thought (not really questioned) as to the overall importance to the team.
That's not to say that the running game is of little importance, but rather in the ways you can go about filling that role.
I was listening to 660 WFAN NY a couple days ago (Joe Beningo and Evan Roberts (the worst they got on that station at regular time periods)), and they were interviewing Dan Marino.
He's changed my mind a little on Richardson. He said that with today's NFL, there's really no need to run the ball because of the protection that receivers, QBs, and even linemen get. It's become a passing game. He said it's really only important to eat away at the clock and to finish games.
While I kinda disagree, the run is important to keep the defense honest, it has become a major passing league.
It's difficult because I do believe Richardson will immediately come in and become the most talented RB in the NFL besides Peterson (and we dunno if Peterson is healthy or not). Having him would be a great premium, but is it necessary? I dunno.
It could make life easier for our QB's as he sets up the play-action and commands defenses to account for him. Unfortunately, I don't really see an Elite WR and I'm not sure RG3 is an Elite QB. I wanted Matt Barkley, but as usual, the Browns get the short end of the stick and he doesn't come out.
It's just a tough situation. I do know that if our FO has complete confidence in RG3, I'd like to pick him up. That position is absolutely vital in today's NFL. But if not, looking for a trade down might be a good option. That or Claiborne.
But it's tricky to go against Richardson, I mean the guy has HOF talent, and that's pretty good to get no matter what position they play
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But it's tricky to go against Richardson, I mean the guy has HOF talent, and that's pretty good to get no matter what position they play
I am not trying to be argumentative here, but I would not say that with any certainty that Richardson, Luck or any other prospect is a sure fire HOF.
Also Bama has a strong running attack year in and year out no matter who they have filling that role ... Are they good talents? Yes that has something to do with it for sure, but it's also an attitude and a commitment to that end.
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Marino might want to check his own career before he says that RBs do not matter. He probably just wants to say that he was ahead of his time  cut to Boomer nailing him on-air by asking him how many SuperBowl rings he has (and the hilarious after-effect laugh that Boomer has just as many)
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He's changed my mind a little on Richardson. He said that with today's NFL, there's really no need to run the ball because of the protection that receivers, QBs, and even linemen get. It's become a passing game. He said it's really only important to eat away at the clock and to finish games.
While I kinda disagree, the run is important to keep the defense honest, it has become a major passing league.
Exactly. It used to be "run to set up the pass", now it's "pass to set up the pass and run to keep defenses honest". The rules have so skewed things in favor of passing that it would be foolish not to fix our passing game as a priority over our running game.
All but 4 teams this year either passed more than they threw or were even in the ratio. Even the "running teams" don't run that much. Denver's ratio was the most skewed towards the run (and why wouldn't it be with Tebow at the helm) and they were only 56/44 run. Conversely, half the league is skewed over 56/44 towards the pass.
It's pretty clear that running is losing a lot of importance as years go by with these rule changes... just another reason why I can't see us going Richardson with #4.
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Good time to mention that these rules SUCK...I hate them, they have made the NFL an Madden-arcade passing league, so that some clueless homers can scream "TOUCHDOWN" and buy more nfl.com merchandise
Anybody else noticed that refs called the PO games "the old" way? I can't remember many PIs or flag football roughing the QB penalties and there was a lot of not called contact downfield as well as lots of grabbing on the LOS....it was much more fun and if they would call reg season games like that the run would become more important again
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That tells me that if we wnt to make the playoffs we should find a FA Rb that is a former 1st round pick and sign him. 
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Ask yourself why you keep going to the circus.
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Good time to mention that these rules SUCK...I hate them, they have made the NFL an Madden-arcade passing league, so that some clueless homers can scream "TOUCHDOWN" and buy more nfl.com merchandise
Anybody else noticed that refs called the PO games "the old" way? I can't remember many PIs or flag football roughing the QB penalties and there was a lot of not called contact downfield as well as lots of grabbing on the LOS....it was much more fun and if they would call reg season games like that the run would become more important again
I whole heartedly agree, but the rules are what they are today and we are not going back to yesteryear.
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My take on Richardson is if he is the best player available then you got to take him period.
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Quote:
Good time to mention that these rules SUCK...I hate them, they have made the NFL an Madden-arcade passing league, so that some clueless homers can scream "TOUCHDOWN" and buy more nfl.com merchandise
Anybody else noticed that refs called the PO games "the old" way? I can't remember many PIs or flag football roughing the QB penalties and there was a lot of not called contact downfield as well as lots of grabbing on the LOS....it was much more fun and if they would call reg season games like that the run would become more important again
I agree with you, but with how well the NFL is doing in TV ratings, I don't see it changing back anytime soon.
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NRTU, Gopher. 
After reading all this, I do find it very interesting how the twists and turns of Richardson became differing opinions based on different criteria.
First, Daman, I'm late answering your question, though Deep handled most of it. To clarify what I meant when I said RB's are the easiest position to scout and therefore their hit rates are much higher early on, I'm not speaking of the concept of players taken early being better overall than those taken later. I was speaking more about the the hit rate of RB's taken early compared to other positions. Since RB's are easier to project than QB's, the hit rate of early RB's will be higher than QB's. The intent is to note that Richardson is probably the safest guy in the draft. Taking him, while not fixing bigger holes, would be a wise investment with our 1st rounder, and in case people aren't keeping score, we've pretty much stunk with 1st rounders. The last true "no-brainer" was Thomas. He wasn't the sexy pick, just the right one. Now I'm not advocating taking Richardson over anyone else, but I am of the opinion that he's as safe as it gets in this draft. That's worth something, and I wouldn't be unhappy if we got him.
The statistical work is very thought-provoking. Thanks. Some don't want Richardson because there's a theory that says it's easy to find RB's. While I would be quite content with Richardson, I am of the opinion that it isn't hard to find RB's. I'm also of the opinion that even if we don't resign Hillis, we can still rather easily find a solid guy to fill the position without spending the #4 pick in the draft in the process. We've done it with Hillis and we did it with Droughns. Many of the teams listed have/had 'backs who were acquired from other teams. It really is an easy position to fill, especially since the league is a passing league like never before....
...And that point leads to another theory that says teams with great RB's aren't necessarily great teams. Unfortunately, that's correct, though it obviously makes perfect sense. RB's are interchangeable and the league doesn't revolve around them anymore. This naturally means teams don't have to invest heavily in the position, and as it pertains to us and Richardson, the #4 in the entire draft IS paying a high price for a RB. It's a legit point.
So where's the middle ground here? To me, it comes back to something I stated before: I wouldn't mind paying a premium to be assured that a player is going to succeed. Richardson is so talented that I wouldn't mind paying the price to acquire him. Sure, we have a big need at QB. Sure, we have a big need at WR. Beyond that, we do have needs at other positions, but IMHO they aren't as critical as QB, WR, and RB. RG3 has a huge bust-factor along with his tremendous upside. Blackmon isn't the physical specimen that more recent early 1st rounders have been, and WR has a much higher bust factor than RB's. That leaves Richardson, who is a complete back with no holes in his game.
Granted, I'm rambling here a bit (yeah, what else is new!  ) but as I view our top needs versus the top potential guys, it looks like our biggest needs represent the biggest bust-factors in descending order:
QB: RG3
WR: Blackmon
RB: Richardson
In most seasons I'm an advocate for trading down, but not this year. Once we get past the top guys at these three positions, there's a rather substantial drop-off in talent. I know about guys like Tannehill and Floyd, but we REALLY need to hit a winner with our first pick, and I don't know that trading down does what we need when we've still got #22 sitting there.
It's an absolutely CRITICAL decision for Heckert, but it's a nice problem to have. As much as I like Griffin, I absolutely know he has the Mike Vick syndrome where in spite of his speed, he has no natural instinct on how to avoid big hits, and in the NFL, he'll be facing much bigger and much faster guys. He's going to miss time, and I hate the idea of having a team that doesn't have it's starting QB. Those teams don't win Super Bowls anymore.
I think I've talked myself out of Griffin. Yup, I just did.  I'll grin if we take him, but I don't think it's the wise investment.
That leaves Blackmon or Richardson. Richardson would have more impact IMHO, but Blackmon would solve a big issue. He looks like the real deal.
Hmmm...
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j/c
The Lawfirm 1st round thing was a copy/paste mistake. I know he was a UDFA.
The conversation started that RBs are a dime a dozen and can be found anywhere. I've produced plenty of evidence that after the 2nd round the likelihood of you finding a RB that will produce consistently drops considerably.
I'm not sure why so many of you are hung up on the "success" of UDFA recently. In the past 10 years, only 6 UDFA RBs have rushed for 1000 yards (I'm well aware of the fact that 1000 doesn't mean what it used to). A quick check found a total of 32 UDFA RBs signed to teams last season alone. Even a conservative estimate of 25 a year for the past 10 years gives you 250 total, and a success rate of less than 3%.
Just like OT said above, I'm not advocating taking Richardson over anyone. I'm not even talking about taking him if Hillis is resigned. But if the top of the first falls Luck, RG3, Kalil like most think it will, and Hillis isn't resigned; do you really want to go into next season with Hardesty/Oby/Jackson/Smith/low draft pick as the RB?
If both QBs are gone before the 4th pick, I wouldn't be surprised if the pick was Richardson/Blackmon.
Ytown-
I know that some of those guys weren't drafted by the teams they started for, not sure how that changes anything. It still shows that 1st round RBs produce consistently better. Since 2001 there have been more 1000 yard rushers drafted in the 1st round than 3rd through UDFA combined.
LT had 8 1000 seasons with the Chargers before going to the Jets
Lynch had 2 1000 yard seasons with the Bills
McGahee had 2 almost 3 1000 seasons with the Bills
James had 5 almost 6 1000 seasons with the Colts before having 2 more with Cards
Thomas Jones had 2 1000 seasons with the Bears before joining the Jets and having 3 more
All the playoff teams knew who they were getting when the picked up these backs in FA/trade, all of them had produced prior to being on the playoff team. Jones was the only one that didn't produce for his drafted team, but he wasn't really given the chance (never received more than 140 carries in a year before Chicago).
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Th point is that you can find RBs in free agency who can fit into a team and help them in the playoffs.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I think that this team had far, far bigger needs than at RB. I would hate to be like the Vikings or Jaguars ... with this great RB who gets us nowhere.
Jones-Drew was the best rusher in the NFL this past season. LeSean McCoy was 4th. Lynch was 7th. Jackson was 9th. Matthews was 10th.
Their teams were a combined 30-50.
A great RB is no guarantee of anything these days except that you'll run for a lot of yards.
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Quote:
Good time to mention that these rules SUCK...I hate them, they have made the NFL an Madden-arcade passing league, so that some clueless homers can scream "TOUCHDOWN" and buy more nfl.com merchandise
Anybody else noticed that refs called the PO games "the old" way? I can't remember many PIs or flag football roughing the QB penalties and there was a lot of not called contact downfield as well as lots of grabbing on the LOS....it was much more fun and if they would call reg season games like that the run would become more important again
I agree with you, but with how well the NFL is doing in TV ratings, I don't see it changing back anytime soon.
But it's an adaptive league and the teams will start putting a premium on defensive players. They will start paying more for DE to rush the passer and CBs to shutdown the passing game. The NFL rules won't be changing, but I think we'll see more talent put on the defensive side of the ball to fight the new rules.
The Giants, Ravens, 49ers and Jets of recent years are all built with the foundation of defense....and they have been very successful. So if you have a defense, you can fight your way through this new pass-first league.
I wouldn't mind drafting that DE from Illinois and Claiborne from LSU in the first round (as long as they pass all the tests the FO throws at them).
Wow...am I way off topic or what? It's a thread about a speciifc RB and I'm talking defense. Oh well.
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NFL scouting combine notes: Trent Richardson interviews with Browns Published: Saturday, February 25, 2012 By Jeff Schudel JSchudel@News-Herald.com@jsbrownsinsider INDIANAPOLIS — If the Browns do not trade up for Robert Griffin III, they might have another star in mind with the fourth pick — running back Trent Richardson from Alabama. Asked at the NFL scouting combine about teams that have interviewed him, Richardson mentioned the Browns first. He said all but about five teams have either talked to him already or plan to talk to him. “I talked to Cleveland, Tampa, the Redskins and talked to the Colts,” Richardson said. “I talked to so many I can’t even tell you how they feel. Everybody is just excited to talk to you and tell you that you’re an awesome football player and they want you on their squad, but you never know how stuff goes. “You never know what the man up top wants. So I get excited about it but I don’t try to fill myself up with too much joy about it because you’ll be having yourself thinking you’ll go this pick and that pick and it doesn’t happen so I don’t want to get my hopes up too high. I am getting my hopes up about draft day, though.” Richardson is projected as a top-10 pick. Richardson, 5-foot-11, 225 pounds, rushed for 3,130 yards and 45 touchdowns on 540 carries in three years at Alabama. He also caught 68 passes. Richardson said he has never been caught from behind on any level of football — pee wee, junior high, high school or college. He will not get the chance to display his 40-yard dash speed at the Combine because of recent arthroscopic knee surgery. Many star players choose not to run at the combine. Richardson was looking forward to running. “I’m very disappointed I can’t do the stuff here that everybody else can do,” he said. “In college, it irked my nerves when I heard guys say they don’t want to this and that at the combine. That’s something that you dream of and want to do your whole life. Being a college football player and a competitor, I always wanted to come to this and show all my skills. That’s what the top guys do.”
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Jones-Drew was the best rusher in the NFL this past season. LeSean McCoy was 4th. Lynch was 7th. Jackson was 9th. Matthews was 10th.
Their teams were a combined 30-50.
A great RB is no guarantee of anything these days except that you'll run for a lot of yards.
Cam Newton and Sam Bradford were the first two QB's selected in the draft the last two years. Their teams combined records were 8-24.
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I believe there's more to consider when talking about the validity and wisdom of taking Richardson as it pertains to the Browns.
I completely agree that having an elite RB is far less important than having an elite QB. Really, it's not close. However, it's not that simple for us. As it stands right now at the RB position, we have Hardesty, Jackson, and Oogy under contract.
Ouch.
By now we have all dissected Hillis' situation and know he's dicey. We know what we wish he was, but sadly that hasn't happened.
I'm only going to paint the positive of taking Richardson, and only because I'm making this post while coming from the angle of what he can do for us and why it makes sense above and beyond the debate about taking a QB versus a RB.
Richardson sits next to Luck and Kalil as the three guys who are as safe as it gets in this draft. That counts for something.
Richardson would solve our problem of finding a #1 back while not needing to invest further in a #2 because he's a true 3-down back. Soft hands and great blocking prowess compliment a powerhouse of a runner. That means we can allocate financial resources (read: free agency money) towards fixing other positions, speaking primarily of wide receiver or defensive end. That is a factor in making a poor team much better, quicker. This is a rare free agent class at wide receiver, where there are so many quality guys who will be available, so it's my opinion that taking Richardson can help us kill multiple birds with one stone.
I would reiterate that I love Griffin as a passer. He'd make Browns football exciting and put us on a map we haven't been on in decades in terms of creating buzz and publicity. However, there is a very real chance that another team would bet the farm to jump to #2 to get him. I think the only real team who would do it are the Deadskins, but Snyder is always crazy enough to do it. If that happens, then what do we do? I think Richardson is a very smart move in that regard.
Griffin could be the franchise passer we've lacked since the 80's. On the other hand, Richardson is a franchise running back who represents a much safer investment. That safety factor shouldn't be taken lightly, not when we realize we can keep the 22nd pick in this draft and acquire another starter.
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Griffin could be the franchise passer we've lacked since the 80's. On the other hand, Richardson is a franchise running back who represents a much safer investment. That safety factor shouldn't be taken lightly, not when we realize we can keep the 22nd pick in this draft and acquire another starter.
I have stayed out of this debate, but this was too good to pass up as it pretty much sums up my feelings, the ONE addition I would make would be to put Mooris Claiborne on that list. I would be happy with any one of these three guys.
JMHO
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Trent Richardson
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