DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) Past Regimes and the Draft (Long)

I read a thread where someone had mentioned Phil Savage had cost us the most in the draft and then someone followed up with that Butch Davis was the worst, so I went back and just reviewed past Coach/GM tandems and how the picks went.

Chris Palmer and Carmen Policy

Players that contributed
1999 Draft:
Rd. 2- (WR Kevin Johnson) He wasn't the greatest WR but did have an 84 rec, 1097 yds, 9 TD season in 2001.
Rd.3- (CB Daylon McCutcheon) Another decent value pick, McCutcheon was the longest tenured pick in 1999 staying with the team until 2005.
Rd. 4- (Wali Rainer)- Okay value for the pick. He led the team in tackles his rookie year with 136. Started all 3 years before traded to Jacksonville so Cleveland could move up 3 spots and select Melvin Fowler.
2000 Draft:
Rd. 2- (WR Dennis Northcutt) He had the dropsies sure, but Northcutt was the longest tenured member of the class playing from 2000-06 leading the team in receptions in 2003 and 2004. He left as the 10th ranked reciever in team history with 276 rec, 3438 yds, and 9 TD's.
Rd. 4- (TE Aaron Shea) Spent 6 seasons in Cleveland mostly as a backup. Had his best year with Heiden in 04 scoring 4 TD's. Finished with 97 rec, 851 yds, 7 TD's.

Busts or non-contributers
1999 Draft:
Rd. 1- (QB Tim Couch) First draft for the new Browns and Tim Couch is the guy. Horrible o-line, constant sacks and pressures, little surrounding weapons will forever leave fans arguing if Couch could have been a good QB if he had protection and time to develop but facts are facts: he didn't, being mediocre at best. He did however throw for 3000 yards in a season and helped lead Cleveland to the playoffs in 2002. He was out after 2003 and never started another NFL game. But hey at least he wasn't Akili Smith.
Rd. 2- (LB Rahim Abdullah) 2nd round pick played 2 years. Total 2 sacks and 1 INT.
Rd. 3- (DB Marquis Smith) 3 seasons, 9 total tackles.
Rd. 5- (WR Darrin Chiaverini ) 2 seasons, 555 yds, 5 TD's
Rd. 6- (DT Marcus Spriggs) 3 seasons, 2 total sacks
Rd. 6- (LB Kendall Ogle) 2 seasons, appeared in 2 games
Rd. 6- (TE James Dearth) 1 season
Rd. 7- (RB Madre Hill) 2 seasons, returned 8 kicks for 137 yds.
2000 Draft:
Rd 1- (DE Courtney Brown) When healthy he was a stud, but he never was. 5 injury plagued seasons in which he missed 33 games Brown produced 17 sacks, 125 tackles, and 7 forced fumbles.
Rd. 3- (RB Travis Prentice) 1 season, 11 starts, 512 yards, 3.0 avg, 7 TDs
Rd. 3- (WR JaJaun Dawson) 2 seasons 31 rec, 378 yds, 2 TDs
Rd. 4- (DB Lewis Sanders) Iffy pick for non-contributers but he didn't do much until his last two seasons. 5 seasons 70 tackles, 4 INTs
Rd. 5- (CB Anthony Malbrough) 1 season 13 tackles
Rd. 5- (CB Lamar Chapman)
Rd. 6- (QB Spergeon Wynn) Yes, the guy we took instead of Tom Brady. 1 season, 46.1% comp, 585 yds, 1 TD, 7 INT, 39.5 QB Rat.
Rd. 6- (OT Brad BeDell) 2 seasons, 4 starts
Rd. 7- (OG Manua Savia) Never played
Rd. 7- (DE Eric Chandler) Never played
Rd 7- (DB Rashidi Barnes) 1 season

Butch Davis Era

Players that contibuted
2001 Draft:
Rd. 4- (CB Anthony Henry) He was a very decent starter recording 10 INTs his rookie year. Played 4 seasons with 217 tackles, 17 INTs, and 1 TD.
2002 Draft:
Rd. 2- (WR Andre Davis) An iffy for the productive side but Davis did show some results on the field. 3 seasons produced 93 rec, 1412 yds, and 13 TDs.
Rd. 3- (C Melvin Fowler) Most of the 2002 class were meh picks, no one really tanked but no one lit it up either so I'm iffy on a lot of these guys. Fowler only lasted 3 seasons but he was good backup who was a decent spot starter. 30 games, 14 starts. Traded to Minnesota
Rd. 5- (LB Andra Davis) Good value for a 5th round pick. 7 seasons, 641 tackles, 8.5 sacks, 8 INTs, 4 FF. 6 year starter.
2003 Draft:
Rd. 1- (C Jeff Faine) 3 seasons as a pretty good starter. When all-star C LeCharles Bentley signed Faine was traded to move up and take D'Qwell Jackson. Bentley got hurt and we all know the rest.
Rd. 3- (DB Cris Crocker) 3 seasons. Played backup 2 seasons before starting final one. 172 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 INTs, 2 FF.
Rd.5- (LS Ryan Ponbriand) Probably the best pick of the draft. Pontbriand was an elite longsnapper from 03-10 before two bad snpas cost him his job this season. Played 9 seasons.
2004 Draft:
Rd. 1- (TE Kellen Winslow) Winslow can easily be called a bust but this was about the only good pick of the draft even though we idiotically gave up our 2nd rounder to move up one spot. Winslow had his health and mental issues but the guy was a player. Played 5 seasons, the first two virtually wiped out by injury. His last three years he caught 214 rec, 2429 yds, and 11 TD's. Was traded to TB for 2nd round pick.
Rd. 2- (DB Sean Jones) trading our 3rd round pick to nab Jones he didn't play much his first two seasons but spent 5 with the Browns collecting 286 tackles, 1 sack, 14 INTs.

Busts or Non-contributers
2001 Draft:
Rd. 1- (DT Gerrard Warren) Of the first 7 players selected 6 made pro-bowls the only one not to was the #3 pick Warren. Passing up players like Seymour and Tomlinson, Warren played 4 lackluster seasons with 150 tackles, 16.5 sacks and 4 forced fumbles.
Rd. 2- (WR Quincy Morgan) Similar to Warren, picks #30-36 produced 6 probowlers. The only one who wasn't was Morgan at #33. 4 seasons produced 133 rec, 2056 yards, and 15 TDs. Inconsistant play and poor hands led him being traded for Antonio Bryant in 2004.
Rd. 3- (RB James Jackson) 4 seasons, 1071 yds, 3.3 avg, 5 TDs
Rd. 5- (LB Jeremiah Pharms) Never played
Rd. 6- (DB Michael Jameson) 5 seasons, 49 tackles, 1 INT, 3 FF
Rd. 7- (OG Paul Zukauskis) 4 seasons
Rd. 7- (WR Andre King) 4 seasons, 30 rec, 327 yds, 0 TDs
2002 Draft:
Rd. 1- (RB William Green) Keeping to his namesake, drugs and other off the field errors helped detract an otherwise promising career. 4 seasons in Cleveland netted 2109 rushing yards, a 3.7 avg, and 9 TD's. Lost starting job to Lee Suggs.
Rd. 4- (LB Kevin Bentley) 3 seasons 196 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 INT
Rd. 4- (LB Ben Taylor) 4 seasons, 206 tackles, 0 sacks, 1 INT
Rd. 4- (TE Darnell Sanders) 2 seasons, 18 rec, 118 yds, 2 TDs
Rd. 7- (OT Juaquin Gonzalez) 2 seasons
2003 Draft:
Rd. 2- (LB Chaun Thompson) A very high reach in the 2nd round Thompson was a raw athlete who tremendous upside but very very raw. He played 5 seasons and while never contibuting much as a starter he was a beast in special teams. 5 seasons, 212 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 0 INT, 2 FF.
Rd. 4- (RB Lee Suggs) 3 seasons. The Courtney Brown of RB's, just could not stay healthy. Ran for 179 yards in his first start against Cincy and beat out William Green the following season but always hurt. 3 seasons, 1074 yards, 4.0 avg, 4 TDs.
Rd. 5- (DB Michael Lehan) 3 seasons, 52 tackles, 1 INT, 1 sack
Rd. 6- (DT Antonio Garay) 2 seasons, 4 tackles
2004 Draft:
Rd. 4- (QB Luke McCown) 1 season, 49% comp, 608 yds, 4 TD, 7 INT, 52.6 RAT.
Rd. 5- (DE Amon Gordon) 2 seasons, 10 tackles
Rd. 6- (OT Kirk Chambers) 2 seasons, 0 starts
Rd. 7- (RB Adimchinobi Echemandu) 1 season, 25 yds

Romeo Crennel/Phil Savage Era

Players that contributed
2005 Draft:
Rd 1- (WR Braylon Edwards) A complete headcase and dropped too many crucial passes, no one can deny he was the best WR this team had since it came back into the league. His 2007 season had him catching 80 balls for 1289 yds and 16 TD's and making the Pro-Bowl. He played five seasons with 238 Rec, 3697 yds, and 28 TD's. Was traded 4 games into the 2009 season for Chansi Stuckey, Jason Trusnik, and a 3rd and 5th round pick.
Rd 2- (DB Brodney Pool) Was a decent starter for us, unfortunately concussions became too common and he was released in following 2009. Played 5 seasons, 49 starts, 275 tackles, 11 INTs, and 2 FF.
2006 Draft:
Rd 1- (LB Kamerion Wimbley) An average player for us though we passed on Ngata to get him. Great rookie campaign with 11 sacks but never duplicated it. Played 4 seasons with 183 tackles, 26.5 Sacks, 1 INT, 7 FF. Was traded in 2010 for a 3rd round pick which was used on Colt McCoy.
Rd 2- (LB D'Qwell Jackson) The only member of the class still on the team, has been solid and seems a natural fit now for the 4-3 being the 1st alternate to the Pro-Bowl this season. Injuries cost him a majority of 2 seasons but he played 6 seasons here with 565 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 5 INTs, and 2 FF.
Rd 5- (RB Jerome Harrison) I put him on here for the simple fact of what he was able to do at the end of the 2009 season including his 286 yard, 3 TD rushing performance against KC setting the Browns single game rushing record which today still holds at 3rd all time. He played 4+ seasons, rushed for 1401 yards, 4.5 avg, 61 Rec, 445 yads, 9 total TD's. Was traded in 2010 after losing his starting job to Hillis for Mike Bell.
Rd 6- (FB Lawrence Vickers) Stats can't do justice what he was able to do for our running game. Still disappointed he was let go. Played 5 seasons.
2007 Draft:
Rd 1- (LT Joe Thomas) Best pick since our return by far. Has started every game in his career, is a 5 time Pro-Bowler and one of the best LT’s in the game today.
Rd 2- (CB Eric Wright) Even though he was torched his final season here, Wright had 2 very solid seasons in 08/09. He played 4 seasons, started 55 games, 249 tackles, 1 sack, 9 INTs, 2 FF and 1 def TD. Left as a free agent last season.
Rd 5- (CB Brandon McDonald) Could just as easily gone as a bust but he was a 5th round pick who started 27 games in 3 seasons. Finished with 154 tackles, 1 sack, 8 INTs, 2 FF and 1 def TD.
2008 Draft:
Rd 6- (DT Ahtyba Rubin) The only good thing to come out of this draft class. Is a solid starter. Four seasons, 37 starts, 214 tackles, 7 sacks, 1 INT, 1 FF.

Busts or non-contributers
2005 Draft:
Rd 3- (QB Charlie Frye) We all know the book on Frye and it ain't a great read. Lasted just over 2 seasons passing for 3490 yds, 62% Comp, 14 TD, 23 INT, 11 lost fumbles. Traded one game into the 2007 season for a 6th round pick giving Derek Anderson the starting job.
Rd 4- (DB Antonio Perkins) 2 seasons, 2 tackles
Rd 5- (LB David McMillan) 3 seasons, 8 tackles
Rd 6- (LB Nick Speegle) 1+ season, 10 tackles
Rd 6- (DL Andrew Hoffman) 1 season, no stats
Rd 7- (OT Jon Dunn) 1 season, no stats
2006 Draft:
Rd 3- (WR Travis Wilson) The supposed best WR in the NFL draft finished his career with just 2 Rec for 32 yards. He was released after 2 seasons.
Rd 4- (LB Leon Williams) Another bubble player. Started 12 games but wasn’t very good as I recall. 4 seasons, 163 tackles, 5 sacks, 0 INT, 1 FF.
Rd 4- (OG Isaac Sowells) Played 3 seasons, appeared in 17 games, 0 starts.
Rd 5- (CB DeMario Minter) Injured before season started, never played. 1 season.
Rd 6- (DT Babatunde Oshinowo) The extra pick we got for Ngata/Wimbley. 1 season, 2 tackles.
Rd 7- (DB Justin Hamilton) 1 season, appeared in 10 games, 0 starts, 16 tackles.
2007 Draft:
Rd 1- (QB Brady Quinn) Discussed being a potential top 5 pick, Cleveland traded their 2007 2nd round pick and their 2008 1st round pick to swipe him at #22. The return was 3 poor seasons in Cleveland before being shipped off in 2010 for Hillis and a 6th round pick. He finished with 12 starts, 1902 yards, 52.1% comp, 10 TDs, 9 INTs, and a 66.8 QB Rat.
Rd 6- (DL Melila Purcell) Spent 2 seasons on the practice squad, no starts.
Rd 7- (DL Chase Pittman) Spent 1 season on the practice squad.
2008 Draft:
Rd 4- (LB Beau Bell) After giving up our first 3 round picks for players (1st for Quinn, 2nd for Williams, and a 3rd for Rodgers) Beau Bell was our first pick of the 2008 draft. He played 1 season, appeared in 5 games totaling 3 tackles and 1 FF.
Rd 4- (TE Martin Rucker) With Winslow’s injuries and contract being a concern we traded up to draft Rucker. He played 1+ season totaling 2 Rec, for 17 yards. He was released in 2009.
Rd 6- (WR Paul Hubbard) 1 season, no stats
Rd 7- (LB Alex Hall) Spent 2 seasons as depth totaling 39 tackles, 3 sacks, and 2 FF. Traded as a package in 2010 for Sheldon Brown and Gocong.

Mangini/Kokinis

Players who contributed
2009 Draft:
Rd 1- (OC Alex Mack) How we went from #5 to #21 is a bust in itself. For #5 we essentially got Mack, Veikune, James Davis, Coye Francies, Able Elam, Kenyon Coleman, and Brett Ratliff. Only Mack remains with the team and has been a pretty good player having made the Pro-bowl. He’s played 3 seasons and started every game.
Rd 4- (LB Kaluka Maiava) Not a starter by any means but he is decent depth who can spot start when needed. 3 seasons, 80 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 3 FF.

Busts or non-contributers
2009 Draft:
Rd 2- (WR Brian Robiskie) An utter bust at his position. Robiskie was said to be one of the most NFL ready WR’s in the draft. He never produced last 2.5 seasons with 39 rec, 441 yards and 3 TDs. Cut this season to make room for RB Thomas Clayton.
Rd 2- (WR Mohammad Massaquoi) He’s been a disappointment thus far. After an impressive rookie season he has failed to match those same numbers as they’ve dropped every year since. In 3 seasons he’s caught 101 balls for 1491 yards and 7 TD’s.
Rd 2- (LB David Veikune) Mangini’s high-motor guy. He lasted all of one season with 0 starts and 0 tackles. 2009 was possibly the worst selection of 2nd rounders by a team in draft history.
Rd 6- (DB Don Carey) Was waived/injury before the start of 2009 season.
Rd 6- (CB Coye Francies) 2 seasons, 0 starts, 7 tackles
Rd 6- (RB James Davis) Everyone’s favorite pre-season RB, lasted 1+ season totaling 24 yards and a 2.0 YPC avg.


Heckert and Holmgren took over in 2010 and they say it takes at least 3 years to judge a draft class so I'll stop there. Its easy to see why we have been as bad as we have. The longest tenured player we drafted on the team is D'Qwell Jackson from the 2006 draft. No one from 2005 or before is with the team and it seems a rarity if a draft pick even makes it to 5 years in Cleveland. Its hard to say who was the worst because to be fair they were all pretty bad.

Fantastic read!

This is why I came to this board and why I started posting. Would love to see others put in the time and effort to a deep dive on a subject.

Thank you!

Makes you sick to see that they drafted a franchise QB (Couch...in their eyes) and didn't select an O-Lineman until the 6th round of year TWO (Bedell).

Wow,, nice work man.. impressive.

Quote:

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The longest tenured player we drafted on the team is D'Qwell Jackson from the 2006 draft. No one from 2005 or before is with the team and it seems a rarity if a draft pick even makes it to 5 years in Cleveland. Its hard to say who was the worst because to be fair they were all pretty bad.

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Pretty much it in a nutshell....

Yeah, I'm not sure all the arguments about whether Couch was or wasn't a franchise QB were anything but moot points. Whoever we put back there was going to get slaughtered the first couple of years (at least).

Nice job on the original post BTW, PD... Thoroughly depressing, but well done all the same.

Nice work

I am about to open a thread to review our picks scouting profiles (if they're accurate, improvements etc)

Just a quick look at your list shows what I've been saying about Savage...as much as he was slammed around here he was by far the best shot caller on draft day....compared to the league he was AVG at best though, more like below AVG

In 4 drafts there's only 1 clear cut BUST from the 1st or 2nd round (compare that to the other 2 clowns)...and that came at QB, toughest position to evaluate...and he found 2 real diamonds late in Rubin and Vickers...Rubin alone makes up for the Quinn fiasko, he plays like a 1st round DT

It's early, but it looks like Heckert clearly has upped the level of competency on draft day

what I really don't get about Rubin is that he was profiled as a 3rd or 4th round pick after the senior bowl. How did he fall that far? I just don't get it.

also, Brandon McDonald was a heck of a pick in the 5th... especially a guy who wasn't even invited to the combine.

Quote:

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The longest tenured player we drafted on the team is D'Qwell Jackson from the 2006 draft. No one from 2005 or before is with the team and it seems a rarity if a draft pick even makes it to 5 years in Cleveland.

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4 completely different regimes in 13 seasons will do that to a team. We change offensive and defensive schemes more often than most people change cars. What you have documented here is what happens as a result. Each new regime wants their guys ....... because the old guys don't "fit", and obviously they weren't any good anyway .......

Out standing effort ! ..

Then I go on to say , SEE , see why I have bashed every FO we have had since our return ! .. This is why I have tried to take a wait and see with H & H ( And it ain't easy ,lol ) .. Call me negative all you want but when you see crap come in, you know what is going to come out !

Excellent post involving a hell of a lot of work. Thank You!

For the most part we had people way over their heads doing the drafting. I think we're much better in that department right now. If we can stay the course and resist tossing another regime before they have a chance then... well... they have a chance.

thank you for putting in all that time and effort. for those wanting the cliff notes version (note that the totals aren't really fair because it doesn't weight the rounds picks were taken in):

Palmer/Policy
1999 - 3/11 contributers (4 if you give a pity vote for Couch for the abuse he took)
2000 - 2/13 contributers

Total: 5/26 = 19%

Butch
2001 - 1/8 contributers
2002 - 3/8 contributers
2003 - 3/7 contributers
2004 - 2/6 contributers

Total: 9/29 = 31%

Savage/Crennel
2005 - 2/8 contributers
2006 - 4/10 contributers
2007 - 3/6 contributers
2008 - 1/5 contributers

Total: 10/29 = 35%

Mangini
2009 - 2/8 contributers

Total: 2/8 = 25%

do you know what really stands out from that list? the 1st year drafts by each regime were absolutely wretched. basically, between the instilling their own types of players + having absolutely terrible drafts they were setting themselves up for complete failure.