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Here is my thought, Geno Smith is a real possibility, therefore we have no picks after that #6 pick (Geno Smith) until round 3, unacceptable for our new FO, they know we need a CB, so here is where we trade Jabal Sheard to Atlanta (who really likes him) for their pick @ #31, I would rather keep him but he is expendable with the signing of Kruger ... JMHO ... Your thoughts?
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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I think we will trade down and hopefully pick up at lease a 2nd round pick. I suspect we will pickup the best CB or Safety available in the mid 1st round somewhere.
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This would be the worst possible scenorio, imo.
1. I hate Geno at 6. I'm not sure i'd like Geno at 31.
2. Trading Sheard and not getting Ansah, Dion (btw, I think both will bust/under perform), or MIngo as a replacement just opens up more holes then we have now. Kruger does not make Sheard available, drafting another OLB does.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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I don't really understand why we need to replace our round 2 pick. We spent it on Gordon..what's the big deal?
I'd personally like to move down but I don't feel we desperately need a 2nd rounder. I'd very much like to snag a 1st rounder next year if at all possible.
I don't expect Geno this year and I don't expect a Sheard trade.
Last edited by Kingcob; 04/25/13 07:34 AM.
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Quote:
I think we will trade down and hopefully pick up at lease a 2nd round pick. I suspect we will pickup the best CB or Safety available in the mid 1st round somewhere.
I hope your right, but if we take Smith would you get sick or be ok with it ... I really want the CB but I would not get that upset with Smith ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Legend
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Quote:
This would be the worst possible scenario, imo.
1. I hate Geno at 6. I'm not sure i'd like Geno at 31.
2. Trading Sheard and not getting Ansah, Dion (btw, I think both will bust/under perform), or MIngo as a replacement just opens up more holes then we have now. Kruger does not make Sheard available, drafting another OLB does.
I agree I am just trying to thiink like our new FO office is thinking
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Quote:
I don't really understand why we need to replace our round 2 pick. We spent it on Gordon..what's the big deal?
I'd personally like to move down but I don't feel we desperately need a 2nd rounder. I'd very much like to snag a 1st rounder next year if at all possible.
I don't expect Geno this year and I don't expect a Sheard trade.
More picks is better than less picks. Especially when most of our 1st round picks are a waste. I dont see a HUGE gamec hanger at #6 that we couldnt get if we moved to 9 or 12 and picked up an additional pick. Adding a pick next year would be even more helpful IMO.
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If we traded down to say 15 (NO) for example, getting a 2 and 4 in return, taking Smith would not hurt so bad ... JMHO 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Quote:
Quote:
This would be the worst possible scenario, imo.
1. I hate Geno at 6. I'm not sure i'd like Geno at 31.
2. Trading Sheard and not getting Ansah, Dion (btw, I think both will bust/under perform), or MIngo as a replacement just opens up more holes then we have now. Kruger does not make Sheard available, drafting another OLB does.
I am just trying to thiink like our new FO office is thinking
Don't do that, you may not be able to turn your brain back on. 
Seriously though, I didn't exactly hide my disdain for the Lombardi hire when it happened, and not a whole lot has changed. He can go along way tonight by at least showing that our war room doesn't resemble a gigantic dumpster fire.
Like they say, plan for the worst, hope for the best.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This would be the worst possible scenario, imo.
1. I hate Geno at 6. I'm not sure i'd like Geno at 31.
2. Trading Sheard and not getting Ansah, Dion (btw, I think both will bust/under perform), or MIngo as a replacement just opens up more holes then we have now. Kruger does not make Sheard available, drafting another OLB does.
I am just trying to thiink like our new FO office is thinking
Don't do that, you may not be able to turn your brain back on.
.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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All Pro
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I think a late 2nd or 3rd rounder is closer to Sheard's trade value. Perhaps if we trade a few late/future picks along with him, we can get back into the 1st. Gotta look at it from ATL's point-of-view. Sheard is 2 years closer to free agency than a rookie.
I have my doubts about Sheard in our new system, especially considering that Kruger seems to have the same weaknesses (run game/coverage). If we can land Jordan at #6, I think it would be a much better and versatile duo. Then, the door is wide open for trading Sheard, imo. But again, I don't see us getting great value.
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1st String
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Atlanta will not give up a first round draft pick for a second round selection who hasn't developed as of yet. I would expect a 3rd rd trade for Sheard before a first. That being said, The idea of drafting a QB and a TE so early in the draft makes my blood boil. We desperately need a CB along Haden and a FS along TJ. Add a LB ( 2 if they cut Groves(idiot)) and a possible WR and OL DL depth. I will keep saying this, Give Weeden and Cameron a shot this year. Next years draft is LOADED with QB, WR, and TE next year....
I am the artist that was known as Dawgmanincincy
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I don't really understand why we need to replace our round 2 pick. We spent it on Gordon..what's the big deal?
It's all about NOW....Whats availible NOW....WANTING NOW..MORE....
It's about HAVING....We could have 10 2nd round picks and someobdy would be howling we need 11 picks,
When you sit back and say ok we drafted so & so with our first pick...Gordon with our second pick it looks pretty good, but someobdy always says, ya but you already have Gordon....if you had it you could draft.........So go get another one.....People dont think, well if we still had our 2nd we wouldnt have Gordon
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Legend
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Quote:
If we traded down to say 15 (NO) for example, getting a 2 and 4 in return, taking Smith would not hurt so bad ... JMHO
NO doesn't have a 2.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
I don't really understand why we need to replace our round 2 pick. We spent it on Gordon..what's the big deal?
It's all about NOW....Whats availible NOW....WANTING NOW..MORE....
It's about HAVING....We could have 10 2nd round picks and someobdy would be howling we need 11 picks,
When you sit back and say ok we drafted so & so with our first pick...Gordon with our second pick it looks pretty good, but someobdy always says, ya but you already have Gordon....if you had it you could draft.........So go get another one.....People dont think, well if we still had our 2nd we wouldnt have Gordon
Yep. I agree with you guys.
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because the team is already good enough...
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I don't see that scenario. I'm not surprised that 24 hours before the draft the Browns are blowing a ton of smoke about Geno Smith. I think they're trying to work a trade down. But in case they're stuck at 6 I CAN see this scenario:
Browns take either Dion Jordan or Barkevious Mingo and then look to trade Sheard. Charlie Casserly is on record saying we could get a late 1st for him. Let's be conservative and say we can swing him for a 2nd & 4th in that scenario. I think I'd take that deal - assuming they already know Sheard is NOT a fit at 3-4 OLB. The last thing I want to see them do is turn Sheard into Kenard Lang and destroy his trade value. Obviously, I'd prefer that he play the position and be just as successful at it!
![[Linked Image from media.247sports.com]](http://media.247sports.com/Uploads/Assets/762/857/2_857762.JPG) Pope Dezz!
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Quote:
Browns take either Dion Jordan or Barkevious Mingo and then look to trade Sheard.
Not sure about the trade of Sheard, although would not be surprised, but I am leaning with your assessment of Jordan and Mingo....and think it will be Mingo as I'm guessing Jordan will already be gone.
I'm liking Mingo more and more as we have come closer to today. The only thing that would have the Browns keep Sheard is Mingo's potential struggles in the run game and maybe that would be something Sheard can help with. The Quentin Groves thing may be a factor as well, but I hope not. I don't think it's that serious of the thing.
More and more info and analysis shows opinions that Mingo is the best OLB in this draft. I tend to agree although the kid needs to add some meat to his bones. Not sure if his frame will allow it as I am sure he knows he needed to do that and has stayed at the same weight for some time now.
I also don't buy into the concerns about his lack of production in 2012. After his very good junior campaign in 2011, he was double-teamed last year quite a bit allowing for Sam Montgomery to come into the fold....and oddly enough Montgomery is being rumored as a third rounder while Mingo a top 15 pick.
I just think if Mingo was 10lbs heavier, he'd be a top 3 pick, no question. So much concern is with his size, which is why so many have ruled him out as a 4-3 DE. I think he would be perfect in this 3-4 as an OLB. And as much as I like Sheard, Mingo would be an upgrade IMO.
Tackles are tackles.
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And as much as I like Sheard, Mingo would be an upgrade IMO.
This is something that people on here don't seem to understand. Mingo is a great prospect. As I've already written in another thread, best first step in the draft, best flexibility, violent hand usage, good in coverage, etc.
His biggest flaws are his tendency to play out of control (big problem), his need to gain five (preferably ten) pounds, and his lack of college production. I'm not going to deny that him playing out of control is a problem (and it's a big reason why he struggles as a run defender), but the other "flaws" aren't that big of a deal. The guy can put five or ten pounds on without a problem. People always seem to compare him to Aaron Maybin without realizing that Maybin is an extreme case of not being able to put weight on. The chances of Maybin and Mingo being one in the same are so, so slim. As for lack of college production, who cares? The NFL Draft is for potential; not production. I'm not going to give up a guy who, as a prospect, is extremely similar to Von Miller (yes, I went there) just because he was misused in college, and as a result, had no production.
So if you can trade Sheard for a late first/early second and then draft Mingo (or Jordan) at #6, you do that 100 out of 100 times.
It's the difference between having a guy whose ceiling is 10 sacks versus 20 sacks. It should push the defense from a good unit to an elite unit by the end of the season, and for years to come, if managed correctly.
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Good post Powder... one thing of interest... playing out of control was one of the biggest knocks on Sheard as well.
Geting too far upfield to allow RB's to cut ubnderneath is an example.
That said if we could get Mingo, trade Sheard and still land a top 3 CB that would be ideal - imo
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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Quote:
I don't really understand why we need to replace our round 2 pick. We spent it on Gordon..what's the big deal?
I'd personally like to move down but I don't feel we desperately need a 2nd rounder. I'd very much like to snag a 1st rounder next year if at all possible.
I don't expect Geno this year and I don't expect a Sheard trade.
I agree with that, to an extent.
I also don't see why people think that drafting a pss rusher is some sort of death sentence for Sheard. We need pass rushers .... waves of them, in fact. Drafting a good one does not necessitate dumping another right away. We can let the various players at the 2 outside positions fight it out and see who winds up on top. What is the problem with that? Besides, great players fin the field in one way or another. What a great "problem" it would be if we wound up with 3 great pass rushing OLB. (or 4, if Groves continues to develop)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The problem is that the Browns don't have a second-round pick, so most fans think that in order to contend now, the Browns need to draft guys who play at definite positions of need. OLB is not a definite position of need.
This isn't a problem if the FO doesn't think the Browns can contend right now and is planning on addressing long-term needs as opposed to short-term ones. This also isn't a problem if they orchestrate some kind of trade-down. But it is a problem (if they want to contend immediately) if they draft an OLB in the first round and have some random rookies start at CB and FS.
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Quote:
The problem is that the Browns don't have a second-round pick, so most fans think that in order to contend now, the Browns need to draft guys who play at definite positions of need. OLB is not a definite position of need.
This isn't a problem if the FO doesn't think the Browns can contend right now and is planning on addressing long-term needs as opposed to short-term ones.
But OLB could be a position of need. We cannot be sure either way right now.
What I do know is that a pass rush makes everything go in this defense that Horton runs. No pass rush, and the defense is taken apart. With a pass rush, opposing QBs find themselves on the ground, or running for their lives far too often for them to be comfortable in the pocket.
Horton even said something about preferring a great pass rusher over a cover guy ..... because you can improve a cover guy a great deal if you can get pressure on the QB.
I look at a team like the Texans, and they have Watts, and a couple other guys who are 6 sacks producers. Think that they wouldn;t love to add another beast to that defensive front, or LB corps, and really destroy opposing RB and QB? I think they would.
You never have too many pass rushers. It's hard to even get enough. Plus, if you are developing pass rushers in waves, it's not as devastating when you lose a guy to injury, or a guy leaves in free agency. It is probably the most important position on a 3-4 defense, and you can never really even have enough.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The basic premise of my point is that on paper, this defense would be better in the short-term by drafting a CB in the first round instead of an OLB. This premise, of course, is assuming the Browns can't find a trade-down partner. If they can, then the story completely changes.
Yes, OLB is probably the most important position for 3-4 defenses, but having three or four good OLBs and only having one good CB is dangerous IMO. I don't think a team can field a top defense like that, no matter how much the improved pass rush is helping the CBs. I do think a team can field Cleveland's current OLB core (Sheard, Kruger, Groves) and draft someone like Milliner and have a rather good defense. Contrary to popular belief, there have been good 3-4 defenses that have had much worse pass-rushing personnel than the current Browns (such as the 2008-2011 Jets or 2012 Steelers) and had good secondaries.
I also think Horton's preference for his 5Ts to attack rather than clog up space helps his 3-4 defenses garner pass rush more easily than other 3-4 defenses, even without good OLBs. His defense last year is proof of that.
TL;DR: Drafting a CB in the first round (barring some type of trade) will help this team make the POs in the short-term more than drafting an OLB. So the issue then becomes — how close do the Browns think they are to contending?
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I would not be upset if we drafted Star or Floyd if they fell to us.
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GENO SMITH AND JABAL SHEARD Isn't that a FAILED comedy team?... 
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If we are stuck at six we need to pick the safest player. Is it Star ? Milliner? Mingo? Who is it?
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Quote:
GENO SMITH AND JABAL SHEARD
Isn't that a FAILED comedy team?...
Who's at QB, What's at RB, I Don't Know's the Center.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
Quote:
GENO SMITH AND JABAL SHEARD
Isn't that a FAILED comedy team?...
Who's at QB, What's at RB, I Don't Know's the Center.
Sounds like training camp already! 
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) GENO SMITH AND JABAL SHEARD
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