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#781439 - 04/27/13 03:57 AM BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3
aiiiiee Offline

Rookie

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 16
I'm not excited with how this Draft is going after the first 2 days...
AS MANY OF YOU HAVE SAID, I think that the 2 guys we got are not the problem, but because we rush, NOT excitedly, to say "I like this guy" is the problem; None of us might have known What to expect from this Draft, but we're getting Plenty of That and no targeted "YES"s!

The New Banner/Lombardi/Chud Era of Drafting seems to have no plan or soul to it; All i can say about Barky is "Great, but i wish we could've moved down to get a 2nd rounder too." About McFadden all I can say is, "The experts and hosts covering the Draft feel the Browns could've got him in the 4th or even 5th Round".

Hardly a ringing endorsement for a wild, interesting, convincing draft. It could prove to be the best Draft we've ever had, but Honestly, does it feel that way right now? We have many concerns in other positions; Perhaps the Banner/Lombardi/Chud Era are taking their time not wanting to do anything too drastic, and, I suppose, that's okay...

If it works.

Right now, the lukewarm, "content thrill" of these picks and moves that could've been made to produce more has an aftertaste of quiet "hope" for me. After all that we've heard and wondered about Banner and Lombardi, in particular, it's surprising that This describes how some of us (many of us?) are left feeling going into the 4-7 Rounds...

JMHO

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#781440 - 04/27/13 05:32 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
ScottPlayersFacemask Offline

All Pro

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 768

I would say it has a plan to it...and it mostly says...we're going to get after the QB and apply pressure one way or another. Between free agency and draft so far....it looks like they want to have a solid front 7 on D. With that I can't complain with their thinking. They added two OLB's Kruger and Mingo, added another piece on the line. And also added two free agent corners and one through the draft. Sure Mingo and McFadden have to pan out (and Kruger)....but that's the point of scouting and evaluations.

I read about the experts also and understand what you mean about their thoughts. But on the flip side...watching the draft, the experts were wrong on most cases on who most teams were going to pick. For example, who would've thought S. Floyd would've dropped into the 20's or that DJ Hayden would've went #12 (ok it's the Raiders so anythings possible)

I will say that I may not be totally excited with the picks (the past 10 years of Browns drafts have made me leery) but I will say that it's a new regime and I understand what they are trying to accomplish and I'm excited to see what these new players bring to the table.


Edited by ScottPlayersFacemask (04/27/13 05:36 AM)

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#781441 - 04/27/13 06:45 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
bbrowns32 Online   content

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Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 6099
Loc: Motown area
Quote:

.... seems to have no plan or soul to it



Admittedly, it does lack pizzazz, but the 2 picks to date do seem logical. I think you're feeling the effect of the missing 2nd rounder, that we have picked up little so far. I think the FO has done OK with what they had to work with (although no trades up/down surprises me), but it does seem safe/generic. Wouldn't shock me to see us take a "name" QB with our next pick. If Barkley is still there, it would make a splash...
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#781442 - 04/27/13 06:56 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
aiiiiee Offline

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Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 16
Does anyone here think that they might still go after Ryan Mallet?

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#781443 - 04/27/13 06:58 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
bbrowns32 Online   content

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Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 6099
Loc: Motown area
Quote:

Does anyone here think that they might still go after Ryan Mallet?



Well, they haven't shown much interest in drafting a QB so far, but to me it seems there would be real value if Barkley is on the board at our next turn...
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#781444 - 04/27/13 07:10 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
MrUniverse Offline

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Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 66
jc

I am happy with what the front office has done in FA and this draft. If anything is to be said its that this regime is going to find a way to attack the QB.

Two areas of need have been addressed in FA and draft. We finally have pass rushers on this team as well as addressing the open hole at CB.

As for not having or obtaining a 2nd round pick, lets not forget that we never really lost the 2nd round pick, the Browns just got it in advance.

So far the draft looks like:

1. Mingo- pass rusher with great upside.
2. Gordon- with one year under his belt.
3. McFadden- CB.

Last year the defense played well for the most part without any consistent pass rush, this wont be the case this year with Kruger, Mingo and Sheard. The Browns are going to have legit pass rushers coming off both sides of the QB and for the first time in a long time we are going to see a front 7 with solid depth fully complete.

I give this draft a grade of an A at this point.

.

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#781445 - 04/27/13 07:32 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: bbrowns32]
HewDawg Offline

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Registered: 05/30/07
Posts: 1632
Quote:

Quote:

.... seems to have no plan or soul to it



Admittedly, it does lack pizzazz, but the 2 picks to date do seem logical. I think you're feeling the effect of the missing 2nd rounder, that we have picked up little so far. I think the FO has done OK with what they had to work with (although no trades up/down surprises me), but it does seem safe/generic. Wouldn't shock me to see us take a "name" QB with our next pick. If Barkley is still there, it would make a splash...




The plan is definitely there and I'm not a fan of "splash" moves. They are addressing the defense this year and it appears that any deficiencies that are found in offensive performance will be addressed later. I have no problem if that is the plan. That model seemed to work well with Ozzie Newsome.

I have no desire in a QB this year. If one is needed next year (and it is likely to be a position of need), make the splash next year and sell the house for a QB if we turn out to be a QB away from contending.

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#781446 - 04/27/13 07:33 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
Damanshot Offline

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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37731
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Quote:

Does anyone here think that they might still go after Ryan Mallet?




I'm still trying to figure out where all the talk of Ryan Mallet came from. I mean, did Lombardi say something or did Banner or Chud or was it media generated?

I honestly don't know.
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#781447 - 04/27/13 07:46 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: MrUniverse]
TTTDawg Offline

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Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 1251
Loc: Deplorableville
Quote:

jc

I am happy with what the front office has done in FA and this draft. If anything is to be said its that this regime is going to find a way to attack the QB.

Two areas of need have been addressed in FA and draft. We finally have pass rushers on this team as well as addressing the open hole at CB.

As for not having or obtaining a 2nd round pick, lets not forget that we never really lost the 2nd round pick, the Browns just got it in advance.

So far the draft looks like:

1. Mingo- pass rusher with great upside.
2. Gordon- with one year under his belt.
3. McFadden- CB.

Last year the defense played well for the most part without any consistent pass rush, this wont be the case this year with Kruger, Mingo and Sheard. The Browns are going to have legit pass rushers coming off both sides of the QB and for the first time in a long time we are going to see a front 7 with solid depth fully complete.

I give this draft a grade of an A at this point.

.




+1.5

With the consensus "immediate needs" being CB, OLB, FS, OG, etc we've filled 2 of those needs via our only 2 picks in the first 3 rounds. Throw in our already signed FA's and so far it looks good on paper. Are we 100% there yet? No. But Banner did say something to the effect of "we're not gonna fill all our needs in one year".

We still have rds 4-7 to find other needs and there's always the "afterdraft FA market" where previously unsigned vets as well as the undrafted college players to plug, albeit possibly stop-gap, other needs.

However, to the "I Want My Maypo" posters, nothing will ever be good enough.
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#781448 - 04/27/13 08:06 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: Damanshot]
mgh888 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 4494
This draft and the response to the draft is EXACTLY the same as every other draft I have seen a reaction to since the new era.

Those that think they know a lot about football and didn't get "their guy" - whine and find ways to bash the picks and the F.O.

It never changes.

I personally see a plan that I like very much. An attacking 3-4 defense. The front 7 and the depth we have looks terrific.

With any draft - you never, ever know. Even the "sure things" are never sure things. And judging your team's draft by what the "experts" say is a complete waste of time.

Based on the selections performing up to their assumed strengths - we'll get pressure on the QB and we have a ball hawk CB with great hands and quick reaction to pick off errant throws.

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#781449 - 04/27/13 08:10 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: TTTDawg]
Versatile Dog Offline

Legend

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 43096
There have been some good responses to the original post.

I agree w/those of you who say there is a plan. It's pretty obvious that the Browns want to improve their defense. They signed 2 big-time guys and 1 solid guy in free agency. All 3 guys can get after the qb. They then drafted yet another pass rusher in round 1. They got a very athletic corner in round 3.

Someone mentioned not having the 2nd round pick takes some of the luster off this draft. It does. But Gordon, provided he stays straight is worth a 2nd round pick.

We also traded for a Sproles-type 3rd down back and a very effective possession WR--who will make tough catches in traffic. Nelson may also help us. I am not wild about the TEs we signed, but Davis has immense talent. He has been an underachiever, but if our coaches could somehow light a fire under his butt......he has first round talent.

Today? I'm still concerned about the ILBer position. I like Roberston but see him more as a guy who plays in passing downs. I just have not seen enough of JMJ to make a determination. Maybe he is as good as some people say? We may still need a FS, but I keep thinking that Gipson has impressed the new staff. I know that Jauron was high on him and Jauron is a solid football guy. I think it would be wise to simply stick w/BPA.

I am liking the look of this off-season, but there is one thing that always stops me dead in my tracks------the QB position. We aren't going to improve much if we don't get better performances from that all-important position.

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#781450 - 04/27/13 08:15 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
DjangoBrown Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5761
This is how I grade this draft so far, considering pick and player value:

Mingo C
McFadden B
Bess A

= B overall (Gordon being a B+)
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#781451 - 04/27/13 08:25 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
CalDawg Offline

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Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 9454
Loc: Oregon, OH
It's way too early to tell what this draft will turn out to be. Mingo has question marks but a huge potential upside, and does have real talent and speed, and is a verified disrupter. McFadden isn't the proto-typical size you want, but if he can cover and make plays, he doesn't need to be. Who cares where they pundits had him graded at, the scouts and the decision makers obviously had him graded much higher.

You have to add Bess into the mix. What originally looked like could be an expensive redundancy move, turned into a move to bring on a very productive vet in the middle for virtually no cost.

Both drafted players fill positions of need, and Bess strengthens an important position. So far, the "consensus" has done solid work. From this point on they can do two things, attempt fill other areas of need like if they like what is left at OG, FS, TE, ILB, FB & K, P, or they can take some risk and gamble on a sleeper player or two that has flown under the radar, possibly has issues or shows potential huge upside.

There's nothing to complain about so far, at least not yet, unless you want to complain simply for the sake of complaining.
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#781452 - 04/27/13 08:29 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
CalDawg Offline

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Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 9454
Loc: Oregon, OH
I'm assuming your Mingo grade leaves potential for improvement.

My grade would be:

Mingo B
Gordan A
McFadden C+
Bess A (I was originally against this trade because I didn't want to give up picks and displace Little, the deal was fantastic and it looks like Little will work the outside opposite Gordon.)

With an overall of B+
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"Don't pass on real players." --John Dorsey

"If you don't wear brown and orange, you don't matter." --Freddie Kitchens

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#781453 - 04/27/13 08:43 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
bugs Offline

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Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1816
I think there is a big misconception of truly what is needed. Draft analyst are saying Browns need secondary, guard, TE, and LB's because that was needed last year. Fans looked at last years team and say this is the problem.

With this draft and FA, Chud is saying here are the areas needing addressed for what we want to do. Fans haven't figured out how the plan works or looks, so they go back to what they think is the problem.

Take the first pick funny Pittsburgh took the exact same position. That tells us where the priority lies in this new defense. On offense, Chud is stating serious depth quality is needed at receive position trading for Bess and getting Nelson. It is not so much as getting veterans to help the younger guys. It is creating competition. Nobody pressured Gordon and Little last year. Even at TE you have several players with same skill set. They will compete for a starting position. When injuries occur, Chud doesn't need to adjust his offense plans.

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#781454 - 04/27/13 08:46 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: CalDawg]
OldColdDawg Online   content

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Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 17198
Loc: Lancaster, Ohio
j/c

I just don't understand all the fuss. We won't know how good we are until next January, period. We have a new FO, one of if not the youngest team in the NFL, new ownership, new HC-OC-DC's... let them have a little time before we run them out on a rail.

As for the picks in this draft, meh! If they pan out they will be great, if they bust they will suck, if they're solid then all the moaning is for naught. ONLY TIME WILL TELL.

I've watched us go from contender to non-existence to a perennial laughing stock, and as long as I'm around I'll be watching every year win or lose. So why get all worked up at this point.

I think the FO and Coaching staff are quality people, so let's give them a chance to do their jobs and just be fans. Realistically, I think they are doing a good job plugging holes on paper. Won't know how good until the season is under way.
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#781455 - 04/27/13 08:48 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: CalDawg]
DjangoBrown Offline

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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5761
With a top 10 pick I want day one production, not "potential for improvement"...that said, probably only Milliner, Cooper and Austin would have gotten a slightly higher grade at 6. Trade down was the way to go. We now have Mingo and McFadden, that's "ok", but compared to other teams' draft nothing special, bout AVG.

Consider this: If someone told you one day before the draft that there are 4 scenarios for the Browns first 2 days: A) Mingo+McFadden, B) Rhodes+Warford+D.Moore, C) Eifert+Swearinger+Wreh-Wilson or D) Eifert+J.Taylor+D.Thomas

No one, and I mean, NO ONE would have taken A)....Banner said they value Mingo over THAT kind of value you are seeing in scenarios B, C and D. He better be a terror from day 1 to outplay the value we would have gotten in a trade down. If he's just a situational player in his rookie year, he won't come close
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"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer

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#781456 - 04/27/13 08:58 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
CalDawg Offline

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Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 9454
Loc: Oregon, OH
I know, but edge rusher was obviously the target, and had Mingo not been there, I do believe they would have traded down. I also think Mingo will be disruptive from day one. Will he play to his highest potential level, no. But he will be a factor day one.
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"Don't pass on real players." --John Dorsey

"If you don't wear brown and orange, you don't matter." --Freddie Kitchens

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#781457 - 04/27/13 08:59 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
Dawgs4Life Online   content

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Posts: 47082
Loc: Edinboro, PA
I agree. I was screaming at the TV for us to trade down at #6. We would have AT LEAST ended up with a S/CB/G combo of some sort ... and possibly more if we would have traded down a 2nd time.

Mingo had better end up like his comparison (Demarcus Ware), or else we will not have gotten the VALUE we could have.
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#781458 - 04/27/13 09:01 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: Damanshot]
bigf00t Offline

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Registered: 12/10/06
Posts: 1201
Loc: Central Minnesota
Quote:

I'm still trying to figure out where all the talk of Ryan Mallet came from. I mean, did Lombardi say something or did Banner or Chud or was it media generated?




Yeah- its all media driven. They just connected the dots. New England will have to make a decision on him next year though- depending on his contract. I'd assume a 4 year deal. After his third year they could trade him for something or a year later watch him walk in freeagency and get a comp pick in return(maybe).... And if the QB market is as deep as people are saying, his value might not be all that great next year.

and now general thoughts nrtu:
I'm still on the fence with the new FO. I can't really fault any of the picks so far. I kind of glad Ziggy went before we picked- I don't know how they felt about him but when the analyst says he'll either be in the probowl in three years or packing groceries, that would have scared me a lot. I think Bark is a safe pick and fits an aggressive front seven agenda. The corner, seems short on paper. Looked fluid at the senior bowl. I hope they found a good one. The Bess trade was really nice, good value- nothing to complain about there. Hope they find some players today!!

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#781459 - 04/27/13 09:12 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
bugs Offline

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Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1816
Quote:

With a top 10 pick I want day one production, not "potential for improvement"...that said, probably only Milliner, Cooper and Austin would have gotten a slightly higher grade at 6. Trade down was the way to go. We now have Mingo and McFadden, that's "ok", but compared to other teams' draft nothing special, bout AVG.

Consider this: If someone told you one day before the draft that there are 4 scenarios for the Browns first 2 days: A) Mingo+McFadden, B) Rhodes+Warford+D.Moore, C) Eifert+Swearinger+Wreh-Wilson or D) Eifert+J.Taylor+D.Thomas

No one, and I mean, NO ONE would have taken A)....Banner said they value Mingo over THAT kind of value you are seeing in scenarios B, C and D. He better be a terror from day 1 to outplay the value we would have gotten in a trade down. If he's just a situational player in his rookie year, he won't come close




I don't understand your logic here. It all boiled down to Mingo or Jarvis Jones. How far do you drop? Were you not surprised Jones drop to 17?

I guess for us fans it is hard to see focus needed for the new Browns. Lombardi stated loud and clear LB was position of need in FA. He hammered further taking Mingo first. Now knowing their priority do you still feel they same way?

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#781460 - 04/27/13 09:19 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: bugs]
DjangoBrown Offline

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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5761
Unlike you, I don't try to understand our FO....I look at the draft just like they do. This is about how you play and plan out a draft in the best interest for the Browns...not a guessing match as to what goes on in Lombardis or Banner's head. It's an redundant argument to say "they wanted Mingo"...well, say what? They picked him, of course they wanted him. This is apologetics at its finest, nothing more. My though process isn't about homerism and clapping hands apologetics after the fact. I look at what was available and according to Banner himself, we had a trade offer (most probably the one the Bills took), but they thought Mingo alone was more valuable than 2 Top 50 picks. That's reality and I compare the scenarios and argue that I would have taken the trade down....that's my "logic"
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#781461 - 04/27/13 09:20 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: OldColdDawg]
Day of the Dawg Offline

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Registered: 03/13/13
Posts: 2221
What is the message has the front office sent with this draft so far?

1) They do not feel this team is a quick fix away from contending. If they were they would have made more of a splash. Thet would have traded up and targeted a player in the end of the first or 2nd round.

2) There was no panic in their picks also. They have had a plan and stuck to it.They have seemed to target defense quite heavily in FA and the draft. Build a solid D that gets after the QB and causes turnovers. The attacking style defense will be the cornerstone of the team.

3) This will not be a rebuilding year. If they wanted to rebuild the team with their players they easily could have traded Sheard and Rubin and picked up more picks late 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds. Instead they stayed put and took the Best Players Available that fit what they wanted to do.

4) They spent money in Free Agency but did not go crazy. They want to build a certain kind of team and will save the money until they feel they are real close. Still quite a bit of cap space available.This tells me they do not feel we are a terrible team just not yet ready to be contenders. They want to position theirselves to make a huge jump when the team is ready.

5) The offseason has been very good so far. Not sexy but very solid. I would say except for Haslam's personal problems it has been a very smart offseason.

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#781462 - 04/27/13 10:17 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
YTownBrownsFan Online   confused

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Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 45767
Loc: YTown, Ohio
Really? Mingo, a C?

I give Mingo a solid B-B+. I think that he is the most explosive pass rusher left on the board at the time he was drafted, and that he makes perfect sense for a team transitioning to an attacking 3-4 defense. I also think that he can be a very good player for us. Who cares if he starts out as a 3rd down rush specialist? If he can get after the QB when he's in there, then that's his job.

I also give the McFadden pick a solid B. I think that he is a value where he went. Anytime reports speak highly of a DB's hips, I tend to listen. I watched video of this kid, and he comes out of his backpedal beautifully. He can make the quick moves with a receiver without losing him. If he doesn't wind up starting on the outside, he'll at least be a great nickel. That's a huge value in today's NFL.

I also give the Bess trade a solid B. I prefer more explosive players at WR, and so do the Dolphins ..... which is why they traded him. However, there is serious value in a guy who gets open and makes the catch every time on 3rd down. He could be a Joe J type possession receiver. That type of player is important for a team, especially one with a young (experience-wise) QB.

Overall, I like this draft quite a bit. I understand why we made the picks we did, and I feel that we got value. When we first hired Chud, and went 3-4, everyone asked: "Who are the OLB going to be???". Well, now we have almost an embarrassment of potential riches there. Kruger, Sheard, Groves, and Mingo. Very nice transition to the 3-4, all in one off-season. I love our front 7, and the potential to do almost anything with it as far as alignment.

I don't like every move the front office has made, but I absolutely see their plan, and I like much of what they have done so far.
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#781463 - 04/27/13 10:22 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
bonefish Online   content

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Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 5607
Loc: Reno, Nevada

All of us can have an opinion on what has taken place and what we would have liked to take place. Only the future will tell the real results.

If any of the quarterbacks in this draft become great the Browns missed again.

We can upgrade positions all over the field and the team will improve. However, the Browns will not compete for championships until the quarterback position is solidified.

Holmgren came to town and declared that his most important decision would be the quarterback. He failed miserably.

Jason Campbell and Brandon Weeden are not the answer. Those who believe they are: I am sorry you are kidding yourselves.

When you look around at the other 31 teams and you rank them. Do you really see the Browns winning against playoff caliber teams? Do you believe the Browns are on equal footing at the quarterback position?

When the Browns stop the musical chairs at quarterback then and only then will they compete at the highest level.

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#781464 - 04/27/13 10:42 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
bugs Offline

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Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1816
Quote:

Unlike you, I don't try to understand our FO....I look at the draft just like they do. This is about how you play and plan out a draft in the best interest for the Browns...not a guessing match as to what goes on in Lombardis or Banner's head. It's an redundant argument to say "they wanted Mingo"...well, say what? They picked him, of course they wanted him. This is apologetics at its finest, nothing more. My though process isn't about homerism and clapping hands apologetics after the fact. I look at what was available and according to Banner himself, we had a trade offer (most probably the one the Bills took), but they thought Mingo alone was more valuable than 2 Top 50 picks. That's reality and I compare the scenarios and argue that I would have taken the trade down....that's my "logic"




Unlike you I don't throw away an opportunity getting BPA in order to gain a second round pick. It is obvious the goal was to draft Mingo as their pass rushing OLB. Whether you thought Mingo was the best choice is irrelevant. Banner/Lombardi/Chud felt it was best.

I guess it depended on who was the trade partner. Since St. Louis made the deal with Buffalo at #8, I'm assuming it was them. That would mean trading down 10 spots in hopes the last two quality pass rushers were still available. You're stating both Mingo and/or Jones would still be there at 16. In the end, you were right. I would have thought neither dropped out of the top 10. If the Browns did make the trade and my hunch was correct, Browns would have lost out on Milliner, Jones, and Mingo all for a second round pick.

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#781465 - 04/27/13 11:02 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
slick Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 1690
one of the worst drafts i have seen in a while. So far these guys ARE NOT a improvement over heckert. Mingo in my opinion has a good percentage of becoming a bust. This feel like wimbley all over again. Im not a fan of turning a DE into a LB in the first place....especially a undersized DE like mingo.

As for mcfadden......i think there were allot of better corners still on the board.......and with much more size. This kid is special teams and thats about it.........

Horrible draft so far
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#781466 - 04/27/13 11:04 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: slick]
TopDawg16 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 8703
Honestly, how many snaps did you watch McFadden play this past year?

Or even Mingo for that matter?


I like the picks, and I saw both of them play quite often. Mingo more than McFadden, admittedly.

I just can't understand how people can hate a pick so much from a guy they most likely haven't seen play.

I've only seen him play cuz betting college football in smaller conferences is where you make your money
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#781467 - 04/27/13 11:06 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
Damanshot Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37731
Loc: Aurora, Ohio
Quote:

This is how I grade this draft so far, considering pick and player value:

Mingo C
McFadden B
Bess A

= B overall (Gordon being a B+)




I've missed it if it was reported, but what did we give for Bess?
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#781468 - 04/27/13 11:07 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: slick]
bugs Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1816
Quote:

one of the worst drafts i have seen in a while. So far these guys ARE NOT a improvement over heckert. Mingo in my opinion has a good percentage of becoming a bust. This feel like wimbley all over again. Im not a fan of turning a DE into a LB in the first place....especially a undersized DE like mingo.

As for mcfadden......i think there were allot of better corners still on the board.......and with much more size. This kid is special teams and thats about it.........

Horrible draft so far




Slick, I disagree, but then again, it is just a flip of the coin either of us could be right. I hope you're wrong!

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#781469 - 04/27/13 11:10 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: Damanshot]
bugs Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1816
Quote:

I've missed it if it was reported, but what did we give for Bess?




It looks like we didn't give up much of anything other than our position in the draft.

Quote:

The Dolphins didn't get much in return for Bess though, according to ESPN.com's Adam Schefter, Miami will just exchange picks with Cleveland in the fourth and and swap a fifth round pick with a seventh round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.

The Dolphins will move up to the 104th overall spot in the fourth round and the Browns will drop back to the 111th spot formally held by Miami. The Dolphins also received a Cleveland fifth round pick (164th overall) and the Browns will get Miami's seventh round pick (217th overall).




My opinion Browns got an absolute steal here. Bess is a dang good possession receiver.

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#781470 - 04/27/13 11:11 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: bugs]
Damanshot Offline

Legend

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 37731
Loc: Aurora, Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

I've missed it if it was reported, but what did we give for Bess?




It looks like we didn't give up much of anything other than our position in the draft.

Quote:

The Dolphins didn't get much in return for Bess though, according to ESPN.com's Adam Schefter, Miami will just exchange picks with Cleveland in the fourth and and swap a fifth round pick with a seventh round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.

The Dolphins will move up to the 104th overall spot in the fourth round and the Browns will drop back to the 111th spot formally held by Miami. The Dolphins also received a Cleveland fifth round pick (164th overall) and the Browns will get Miami's seventh round pick (217th overall).







well, if he's as good as some folks say, that's pretty cheap..
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“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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#781471 - 04/27/13 11:13 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: slick]
pblack18707 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4611
Quote:

one of the worst drafts i have seen in a while. So far these guys ARE NOT a improvement over heckert. Mingo in my opinion has a good percentage of becoming a bust. This feel like wimbley all over again. Im not a fan of turning a DE into a LB in the first place....especially a undersized DE like mingo.

As for mcfadden......i think there were allot of better corners still on the board.......and with much more size. This kid is special teams and thats about it.........

Horrible draft so far




what corners do you think are better?
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#781472 - 04/27/13 11:14 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: pblack18707]
TopDawg16 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 8703
Quote:


what corners do you think are better?




You weren't asking me, and I do like the McFadden pick, but I'll answer...

Jordan Poyer, who I'm STILL hoping we take in Round 4.
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#781473 - 04/27/13 11:19 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: Damanshot]
bugs Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1816
I heard somewhere they restructured Bess's contract for three years.

Bess was leading receiver past few years for Matt Moore and Chad Henne. He complemented Heartline working as the slot receiver.

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#781474 - 04/27/13 11:22 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: bugs]
TopDawg16 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 8703
Bess isn't a guy who is going to put up huge numbers or anything like that, but for what we got him for, he's a great pick up.

Great in the slot, and he has a knack for finding the first down marker. He's a first down machine. Definitely will be our go to guy on 3rd and 5's, ala Joe Jurevicius
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#781475 - 04/27/13 11:29 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: DjangoBrown]
predator16 Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 1448
Quote:


No one, and I mean, NO ONE would have taken A)....Banner said they value Mingo over THAT kind of value you are seeing in scenarios B, C and D. He better be a terror from day 1 to outplay the value we would have gotten in a trade down. If he's just a situational player in his rookie year, he won't come close




Not to be a . but I would've take A. I have been a pro Mingo guy for at least 4 months. I've watched endless tape, interviews, and anything else. He was my guy for this year. I'm not an idiot. I'm 9/9 in the past 9 years with my picks 1st round D picks. I am placing my reputation on him and will gladly ride the rollercoaster of people judging him.

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#781476 - 04/27/13 11:29 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: Damanshot]
slick Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 08/24/10
Posts: 1690
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I've missed it if it was reported, but what did we give for Bess?




It looks like we didn't give up much of anything other than our position in the draft.

Quote:

The Dolphins didn't get much in return for Bess though, according to ESPN.com's Adam Schefter, Miami will just exchange picks with Cleveland in the fourth and and swap a fifth round pick with a seventh round pick in the 2013 NFL Draft.

The Dolphins will move up to the 104th overall spot in the fourth round and the Browns will drop back to the 111th spot formally held by Miami. The Dolphins also received a Cleveland fifth round pick (164th overall) and the Browns will get Miami's seventh round pick (217th overall).







well, if he's as good as some folks say, that's pretty cheap..




i still dont get why everyone has written off benjamin? Wit his speed how does this guy NOT BE ON THE FIELD AS A WR????
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#781477 - 04/27/13 11:38 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: TopDawg16]
SaintDawg Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5119
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
IMO.. this is a very weak class with few immediate impact players... so it's kind of useless to moan about not getting impact players.
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#781478 - 04/27/13 11:47 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
Dean Offline

1st String

Registered: 09/29/06
Posts: 467
Loc: Marion, Ohio
I look at Bark and all I can think is Courtney Brown. Similar players. Similar size. Does Bark have the size and physical structural strength to endure the NFL? Who knows.

McFadden? Ouch. I agree. He's a fourth or fifth rounder.

Fact of the matter is, in our division, Ravens averaged 21+ points per game, Steelers 24+, and Bengals 24+. While we only averaged 19+. We can't address both sides of the ball in one draft so maybe if we cut some points off of our opponent's production we can win with our offense that only scored 19+ points per game last year.

Let's hope Graham is up to following in Dawson's footsteps.

"They" say that good defense wins games. I hope they are right because that is all we have addressed so far in free agency and the draft.

As for these being the right players? Who knows until that oblong ball sails on 09/08/2013.

But, I might be wrong as I've been known to be.
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#781479 - 04/27/13 11:49 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
tastybrownies Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 01/19/07
Posts: 5746
Loc: Westerville, OH
Your rush to judgement on all of these players is pretty startling. Also, just because talking head A or talking head B says this guy could have been picked in the 4th or 5th doesn't mean that the player can't become a valid starter. Granted, they spend more time evaluating the players than us on this message board (it is their job), but they're not always right. There is no mathematical formula to say this player will succeed and this player will not. They day I solely base my opinions on what the ESPN or NFL network guys say (especially Dilfer) is the day I stop watching the draft.

Remember when TJ Ward was picked? A lot of people were kind of pissed off and had never heard of him at first either. All that some knew was that he played for Oregon based off of what they had seen in the Rose bowl game with OSU. And that he could have been picked in lower rounds. Of course if the guy can play then who cares what round he's picked in.

But in another sense maybe I can understand why you feel this way. Could it be because this draft is void of a lot of talent that has been in past drafts that we almost take for granted?
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#781480 - 04/27/13 11:50 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: slick]
Deepsouthdawg Offline

All Pro

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 755
Loc: Mississippi
What Cb left on the board is better? Not who "you feel" is better. Who is without a doubt better??
I can answer that. You nor me nor ANYONE else knows. You have to do your homework and pick who you feel best suits the strengths you are looking for.
This isn't a perfect science and once you get to this part of the draft it comes down to usually no two teams having the same boards.
Whether people on here believe it or not just because its not who we would pick doesn't make the guy suck. Some of you kill me!!!! I can't believe some of the blind responses I read on here.
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#781481 - 04/27/13 11:51 AM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: Dean]
TopDawg16 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 8703
Courtney Brown might have similar size, but don't forget, Courtney Brown was playing as a down lineman. Mingo will be playing OLB in a 3-4.

By the time they tried moving Courtney Brown to a OLB, his injuries had ruined his career.
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#781482 - 04/27/13 12:18 PM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: TopDawg16]
bugs Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 03/06/13
Posts: 1816
Quote:

Bess isn't a guy who is going to put up huge numbers or anything like that, but for what we got him for, he's a great pick up.

Great in the slot, and he has a knack for finding the first down marker. He's a first down machine. Definitely will be our go to guy on 3rd and 5's, ala Joe Jurevicius




Better comparison:
Bess = Amendola

Bess averaged near 70 catches in years 09 and 10. Last two years he had receptions of 50 and 60. I agree love this trade. Having Little, Bess, and Gordon is pretty impressive. Don't forget Bess is a return specialist too.

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#781483 - 04/27/13 12:20 PM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: bugs]
TopDawg16 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/12/06
Posts: 8703
I wasn't necessarily comparing Bess to JJ, just that they're going to fill the same role. Slot, possession receiver who will move the chains.
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#781484 - 04/27/13 12:41 PM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: slick]
PortlandDawg Online   content

Hall of Famer

Registered: 09/11/06
Posts: 5227
Loc: Portland, OR
Quote:

i still dont get why everyone has written off benjamin? Wit his speed how does this guy NOT BE ON THE FIELD AS A WR????




Speed isn't everything. Benji is tiny. For him to succeed he has to learn to use his body better. He has to learn to adjust to the ball in the air. For him to truly excell he's going to need to develop a better field awareness too. Finding the soft spots in zones where he won't take massive hits. Some of that is on the QB but the WR has to learn to protect himself by being smart. Benji has a lot to learn. Bess is an instant upgrade in these catagories.
I don't think anyone is giving up on Benji. I just think we're glad we upgraded this year. If Benji wants a roster spot he'll have to earn it. Blazing speed or not.
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#781485 - 04/27/13 12:48 PM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
Halfback32 Offline

Dawg Talker

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 2128
Loc: Chillicothe, Ohio
I like the fact they traded down 2 picks in the 4th and 6th round and picked up Bess.. still keeping the same number of picks. So willing to give the FO a B grade atm
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#781486 - 04/27/13 01:29 PM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: aiiiiee]
THROW LONG Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 7209
With Compensatory picks and Changes in leadership, I see no reason the Browns could start winning in the next 20 years!
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#781487 - 04/27/13 03:08 PM Re: BANNER/LOMBARDI/CHUD after Rounds 1-3 [Re: Dawgs4Life]
mgh888 Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 03/15/13
Posts: 4494
Quote:

I agree. I was screaming at the TV for us to trade down at #6. We would have AT LEAST ended up with a S/CB/G combo of some sort ... and possibly more if we would have traded down a 2nd time.

Mingo had better end up like his comparison (Demarcus Ware), or else we will not have gotten the VALUE we could have.




Got to have someone to dance with in order to trade - so that sort of talk is a redundant. I'd love to have traded down and got loads of picks too - want I want bears no resemblance to what was possible.

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