DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2020 NFL Season 2020 NFL Draft TE's...

Thought the below would be a good discussion. I think we should pick up a TE. As far as what we have...I like Carlson and Seals-Jones and hope to bring them back. I think Njoku can do well in this offense if we can get him to block better.

Of the list below, I really like Okwuegbunam, Kmet, and Parkinson. I think we have the pass catchers already...and looking for that replacement for Darren Fells (as Harris obviously wasn't) A guy with size that can block...but also catch a few balls if needed. In fact I would not be opposed to looking at ant OT's that may be a little too light for the nfl that can be converted to a blocking TE. And the three I mentioned I think fit the bill of guys who can block first but still catch as opposed to the Catch first but still block. I think having a good combination of both types is essential to the (12) formations.

Any other TE's on your radar?
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https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2020/02...ed-to-know.html

Tight ends and the Browns at NFL combine 2020: What you need to know

Today 5:00 AM

By Scott Patsko, cleveland.com

INDIANAPOLIS – David Njoku was the Browns’ second-leading receiver in 2018, totaling 56 catches for 639 yards and four touchdowns. But a year later, the Browns were a mess at tight end.

Njoku missed most of the season due to injury and had just five catches. Four other tight ends combined for just 36.

With the Browns at the NFL combine this week looking at potential draft prospects, it’s unclear where tight ends are on their priority list.


Here’s a closer look at where the Browns stand at tight end, and what the combine and draft have to offer:

Who the Browns have now

Njoku and Stephen Carlson are the only tight ends on the roster not headed toward some sort of free agency. Ricky Seals-Jones, who had 14 catches and four touchdowns last season, is a restricted free agent, and Pharaoh Brown, mostly used as a blocker, is an exclusive rights free agent.

Demetrius Harris (15 catches, three TDs last season) was included in GM Andrew Berry’s first round of cuts on Feb. 17.

Urgency of the Browns' need

The urgency depends on how you view Njoku.

The Browns were hoping the 2017 first-round pick would take a leap forward in his third season, not just as a pass catcher, but as a run blocker as well. But a wrist injury cost him 10 games, and then he struggled to get back on the field over the final four weeks. Andrew Berry was part of the front office that drafted Njoku, so perhaps that works in his favor.

As for Carlson, Brown and Seals-Jones, Kevin Stefanski uses multiple tight ends in his offense, which means the Browns will need multiple bodies at the position. Not only did tight ends Irv Smith Jr. and Kyle Rudolph each have at least 39 catches last season, they both were asked to run block at least 296 times.


So it’s hard to imagine the Browns won’t be kicking the tires on tight ends this offseason.

How strong is the TE group in NFL Draft 2020?

This year’s tight end class pales in comparison to last year’s, when two went in the first round and eight were drafted in the first three rounds. Also, this 2020 group is heavy on pass catchers and light on run blockers. Or, in other words, a lot of tight ends similar to what the Browns already have in Njoku.

Top 5 TEs in NFL Draft 2020

Brycen Hopkins, 6-5, 245, Purdue, second-round projection: Hopkins’ athleticism sets him apart, and he can get down the field as well as any of his peers. However, he doesn’t break many tackles, and his blocking needs work.

Albert Okwuegbunam, 6-5, 255, Missouri, third-round projection: Okwuegbunam was one of the most productive tight ends in the country in 2018 with Drew Lock throwing to him. He has a big catch radius and is dangerous in the red zone.

Hunter Bryant, 6-2, 241, Washington, third-round projection: Bryant looks like a wide receiver and has produced like one (52 catches, 825 yards in 2019). However, he lacks the size to contribute as a blocker.

Cole Kmet, 6-6, 255, Notre Dame, fourth-round projection: Kmet is one of the most complete tight ends in the draft class, able to run a full route tree and provide decent blocking help.

Colby Parkinson, 6-7, 240, Stanford, fourth-round projection: Parkinson has a huge catch radius and his height makes him dangerous in the red zone.

Best of the rest

Jared Pinkney, Vanderbilt, projected 4th-rounder; Thaddeus Moss, LSU, (4th); Adam Trautman, Dayton (4th); Jacob Breeland, Oregon (5th); Stephen Sullivan, LSU (5th).

What they'll be doing

Today: Interviews from 8-9 a.m. Also, medical exams, psychological testing.

Wednesday: Bench press, team interviews, psychological testing.

Thursday: Team interviews, on-field workouts from 4-11 p.m. on NFL Network.

I think most of the top guys are overrated (not so much in this article). Third round, okay. 1st two rounds, no thank you.

Devin Asiasi is my sleeper. Talented guy underutilized on a bad team with a young, frenetic QB behind a porous OL. Seems to have good awareness, athleticism, versatility, and hands. Lined up all over; inline, flexed, and in the backfield/H-Back/FB.

Getting Kmet in the 4th would make me happy

Adam Troutman should be listed in the top 5.

Andrew Berry on TE David Njoku: “He’s a guy we expect take a step forward in the coming year”

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/1232359535131660290

With us or with another team

Andrew Berry said TE David Njoku is part of team’s future. Coach Kevin Stefanski said he has big plans for Njoku but said it’s also a big year for his future.

https://twitter.com/ScottPetrak/status/1232361737678196737

There is no reason to get rid of David Njoku.

YET

He’s been a MAJOR BUST to this point in his career ...

I don't know about major bust (he was pretty good down the stretch in 2018). But a bust for sure.

The underlying message I've gotten in a couple of the quotes I've seen on here today is that Njoku is definitely in the 2020 plans, but he has serious work to do - and he NEEDS to do the work.

This implies to me that they may already be looking beyond 2020 in case he doesn't put in the work.

I got no probs giving the youngin one more year ....He was a serious pup age wise when we drafted him ...

CONSISTENCY needs to become his friend ... better hands would be another friend yo bring along ...

How’s his blocking? .. i have no clue ...

His blocking needs work, even more than his hands.

I think the need to get to work has been the overriding message for everyone in the organization.

They should always be looking at every position going forward.

I'm not arguing, just trying to add nuance. I don't think I need to tell you that, but it's hard to tell on here recently any more.

I agree with that completely, but I think it was a more directed message for Njoku - implying perhaps that some of Freddie's issues with him last season were him NOT putting in work. I don't know, and I'm probably reading WAY too much into things... but, he is inconsistent, he has not gotten better, and he was big-time in the doghouse last year and now we're hearing messages from the new regime suggesting that he needs to work. So, they all need to... some moreso than others, perhaps?

I'm not sure whose doghouse he was in. Was it Dorsey's or Kitchens'? Was it his work ethic or his being a former regime's guy? Throw in an injury, and it's hard to get a clean read. I don't think you can have Njoku's physique without a pretty good work ethic. Based on what we've heard now, he could have been benched for asking what the heck the disorganized mess they had going on was all about.

He certainly has things he needs to work on and improve, though. I'm just not sure if they're singling him out or if they have specific things for each player to work on, but he's just one they were asked about. I've read some quotes, but haven't heard the tone and context.

I'm willing to evaluate Njoku on what he does in this new offense. I think he will need to do more both as a pass-catcher where he must reduce his drops and he needs to improve his blocking. He doesn't have to become a devasting blocker but he can't miss assignments.

To do all of the things that might be called for in Stefanski's offense I would be looking to add a TE who is more a blocker than a pass-catcher. David Morgan, a reserve TE for the Vikes might be a good addition for the Browns.

j/c:

Considering that Stefanski underutilized his TEs for most of the season, Njoku might be gone after next season.

The Vikings top two TEs had 47 and 48 targets.

Our 5 TEs last year had 69 targets combined, none more than 27.

link

TEs not TE's

j/c:

This is probably not being considered by some, but.....

Brown's TEs < Minnesota TEs.

I didn't know that had anything to do with utilization.

Care to expand upon what you meant when you said underutilized?

Minnesota used 12 personnel at the second highest rate in the league behind only Philadelphia. link

Some folks have trouble w/comprehension.

Let's try an analogy or two.

I'm a hunter. I live in SC now, but I used to hunt grouse in Ohio. It's the hardest game there is to shoot. You are typically in heavy brush w/thorns poking your entire body when you flush the bird. A grouse will sit tight. You have to hunt very slow. Wait them out. You can't see them. Hell, I stepped on one. They are explosive when they lift. They sound like a mini-thunder clap. They are extremely fast. I wouldn't hunt them w/a 22. I hunted them w/a shotgun that had a wide broadcast.

A lot of folks don't like hunting or understand guys, so let me try this one. I love paint brushes and own more than I can count. However, right now........I am in the process of repainting the entire interior of our house. I don't exclusively use a brush on wide walls. I use a roller. I use the brush to cut in along the wainscoating, baseboards, and crown molding.

The message is to know what tools are in your tool bag. When you have Rudolph and Irv Smith in your toolbag, you need to use them. When you have the crap the Brown's had last year at TE, it might not be wise to over-use them.

I liked Morgan when he was coming out in the draft but a dislocated kneecap in 2018 also took him out for all of 2019.

If we want a guy who's more of a blocker I might just be like the Titans and roll out a 3rd OT more often. Maybe bring in someone like George Fant who came into the league as a basketball convert that ended up at OT (did play TE one year at Western Kentucky).

Nice story. Didn't really address the question, though.

Stefanski did use them. In what aspect were they underutilized?

He had 2 good receivers, a good running back, and 2 good TEs. From everything I've seen the breakdown of those groups usage seems to make sense.

Try to twist your own words some more/spin the story. You've done it more than I ever have. I can't help it if you post things that make you uncomfortable when I inspect them.

So lesser TE's should be used as much as good TE's?

No.

You and your buddy seem to be the only ones implying that that is something that was even being considered.

Versatile Dog said something that didn't make a lot of sense to me, so I asked him to explain what he meant. He promptly tried to change the subject.

If he'd said we'll probably use our TEs less because they're not as good, I'd have agreed. However, he talked about Stefanski underutilizing TEs in Minnesota without making a comparison of how good they were.

So, can you tell me how they were underutilized, Pit?

I don't think they were and never said that.

With over 100 targets and 83 catches, it would be hard to call Minny's TEs underutilized. That has nothing to do with whether the Browns or Vikings TEs are better.

And showing just the # of targets And trying to draw a conclusion from it is exactly why STATS ARE FOR LOSERS ....

How many times did each team throw the ball? ...
how many total offensive plays did they run ..
were any of the TE’s injured, if so was it the main pass catching TE
Were any of the WR’s injured ...
How many targets went to RB’s

All the above are relevant in assessing if TE’s were properly utilized ...

My gut doesn't know all that much (Kinda like Butch Davis), but right now it's telling me this guy is going to be really good in the League and that I don't want him on any AFC North team other than the Browns.

No, actually, wanting to micro-analyze all of those variables to come to a conclusion would be the definition of why STATS ARE FOR LOSERS.

When a team has what many consider the best duo of WRs in the league, yet throws to TEs at the 6th highest rate... and at the 5th highest success rate, you don't really need any other stats to support the fact that their TEs are not underutilized.

Jeesh... keep diggin bro.

Let it go. My intent was misrepresented again. Hell, even my quote was not cited accurately. It's why I don't reply to the guy. I should have known better.

FA TE's Is Where We Need To Look:

Austin Hooper.
Hunter Henry.
Eric Ebron.
Tyler Eifert.

Why? .. these guys get more ignorant with every post ... look what Fate just said .. looking at the entire picture is stupid but taking one single stat is all u need .. ...

Then he leaves it at we have the best wr duo in the league ... like OBJ’s injury plays no roll in our passing game .... And the menZa thinks I’m the one digging ... *L* ...

Haha. You're right Diam. I'm ignorant. I answered your top two variables by showing the RATE rate at which Minny threw to TEs.

How many times did each team throw the ball? ...
how many total offensive plays did they run ..

We could add everything up on an abacus, but the throwing rate (percentage, if you're still too dense to understand), answers directly your only two questions that belong in the argument.


were any of the TE’s injured, if so was it the main pass catching TE
Were any of the WR’s injured ...
How many targets went to RB’s

Huh?? That's what you want me to analyze to determine if TEs were underutilized??

Okay:

~ No. In fact, if one was, that may be the only thing to support the misguided argument... There were two healthy and they both had over 40 targets. Wow.
~ No. Again, one of the top duos in the NFL, that would lead one to believe TEs would receive much less focus, riigghht?
~ About the league average

Anything else? Shoe Size? Hand Size? Rainfall in Minnesota?

Now that we've established "relevancy", maybe you or Vers can tell us how they were underutilized? Or maybe some more stories about hunting or painting, after insulting our intellect by saying we can't comprehend the intent of your posts.

This. IMO, we're really only missing 1 TE. If we can land just one good, "all-around" TE (good and blocking and catching), then our TE corps jumps all the way to at least average. That, to me, says FA.

Because we are arguing about something I didn't even say. I said "for much of the season." I know that because I play Daily Fantasy football and was wondering what was going on w/Rudolph. I found an article on how his production was way down and that Smith wasn't getting the ball that much either. I was also watching a Minni game and the announcers were talking about Rudolph being the "forgotten man."

I was trying to point out that Rudolph wasn't used as much as he had been previously. They did bring him back into the offense towards the end of the year, but his numbers were still down.

Here, take a look:

2019: 39 receptions
2018: 64 receptions
2017: 57 receptions
2016: 83 receptions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Rudolph

I made a mistake using the analogy because it just fueled more fire from the troublemakers. My point was that Rudolph was the 43rd overall selection in the his draft and Irv Smith was also a second round draft choice. Number 50 overall. He had just 36 receptions last year. I was trying to compare the draft status of both of Minni's TEs compared to the collection of stiffs the Browns had after Njoku went out. I should have known better because my entire point was turned around by a guy who does it constantly.

That's why it is a waste of time to talk to him. I'm out.

I said your post was ignorant, not u ... i said it cause it was and still is ....

In your 1st reply to me that was too a post i made to someone else u said



U just argued that gathering more info before making a decision is stupid as long as u have the # of targets in this case ... ok .... ...

Then u go and add rates into the mix and throw in the fact they have one of the best we duo’s in the league .... thanks ... u proved my point ...

U also left out how the injury affected there targets this year .... 1/2 of an extremely talented duos on the league realistically played in 8 games .... he didn’t finish the 1st quarter in the game he got hurt in and he played a play or two against KC ...

Not that him being hurt mattered ... he only averaged 147.5 targets the previous two years and had 48 this year .... not like 100 - whatever the invisible war playing opposite Diggs got is many targets ....

I get it ... less info is better ... got it ...