I sent Swish a PM this morning saying IF we do fire Hue (just had a feeling and it wasn’t a good one ... and it came to fruition ... very odd .. when i logged into the site i visit and was reading down the blurbs i had a feeling and there it was) ...

I told Swish f we did fire Hue .... i want the entire staff gone ... just as importantly i want Dorsey to hire his guy and i want the org. Chart switched back to where the HC reports to the GM ... enough of the CRAP that helps lead to dysfunction ..

1. LET THE GM HIRE THE COACH for ONCE ... he didn’t fire them both at the same time (i’m ASSumng Dorsey makes it through the day ... *L*) ... so we have a 50/50 shot the new HC keeps Dorsey on as GM ... *LOL* ...

2. COACH reports to GM not the MORON OWNER whose proven time after time after time he has NO CLUE WHAT HE’S DOING ...

I really hope the thief USES DORSEY to find his coach and not some outside search firm ...

We have plenty of time to get this right ... LET DORSEY DO HIW JOB THIEF AND MISSES THIEF ... PLEASE just get the heck out of the way for once ...

We have a ton of talent and cap space with a highly regarded GM ...

ITS AN ATTRACTIVE JOB ...

Please thief ... LET DORSEY DO HIS JOB and hire his coach and set up a tried and true org. Chart ...

DON’T BLOW IT AGAIN U MORON!!!!!

I just replied something similar to Vers. Set this up the right way or this crap will just be recycled in two years. I have ZERO confidence Haslem does this however.

Once a certain someone realizes that this isn't a truck stop chain maybe that will happen.

Why would we have confidence bro ... coming off the WORST IDEA in the history of sports and the fact we’ve hired and fired coaches and FO’s like u change your boys diapers ... good lord .. speaking of witch ... how old r they now? .. man ... there prolly what ... 6 or 7 now ... how long has it been ...

Speaking of witch ... how is everyone? .. hope alls well bro ..

IMO he backed into Dorsey ... lets hope he LETS HIM DO HIW JOB and stays out of it ....

If he hired me as his professional search firm .. my recommendation would be to GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!!! And let your gm do his job ...

Sorry ref ... but it just needed to be said HECK was just not strong enough ... *LOL* ...

I get and even agree about firing everybody, atleast at the end of the season.

My only counter is that 1: you can make argument that Gregg Williams can stay, and 2: I REALLY don’t want to swap back to a 3-4 if our new HC is one of those.

Indeed. Dorsey absolutely has to be allowed to hire his coach. Haslam has to set up the structure where the HC reports to the GM and GM to Haslam.

This should have been done at the end of last year, but it's Haslam, so poor decision making shouldn't come as a surprise.

Diam they turn 13 in November.....time has FLOWN by..lol. Oh well I guess the only thing that stays the same is the Browns sucking...haha.

If Haslem doesn't step aside and let PROFESSIONALS do their job this crap won't get better....it just won't.

You know my thoughts on hue well leave that there. He is gone and its time to move on.

Reports are that that Haslem wanted to keep Hue and get rid of Haley, and Dorsey thought it was best to keep Haley and get rid of Hue. It **SEEMS** that Dorsey gave his case to Haslem, and Haslem agreed.

It then seems, they both agreed that what was best for BAKER was to get rid of them both. The infighting, the power struggles that I talked about to you before, it all has to stop. That's the only way this is going to work.

It seems to me, that HASLEM has actually started to trust Dorsey, and is taking his opinions and knowledge to heart on how to build a successful team.

We both know how we feel about Hue, no need to go down that path my friend. But WE BOTH trust in Dorsey. That I know as well. This to me (and reports) has Dorsey wishes all over it. And THAT is a good thing for the structure of the organization.

Haslem ... I want to keep Hue ... Dorsey ... Go ahead and you can find a new GM ... Hue Fired, we finally have a football man in charge

I told u last week after Hues presser and the cracks of dysfunction started to seep through and said it again today before what is hopefully the final BLOOD BATH in Berea for a long butt time ...

What i said then and even this morning before business as usual in Berea is that it WOULD WORK ITSELF OUT one way or the other ... well it has worked itself out quicker than I thought ... *L* ...

I really hope your right ... that the thief lets Dorsey do his thing ... ITS THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT and the first times HES DONE IT THAT WAY ...

First time .. and he’s had PLENTY OF EXPERIENCE at it in his short tenure ...

I trust Dorsey WAY MORE THEN THE THIEF AND HIS WIFE ... jury’s still out on Dorsey for me .. i like to give it 3 or 4 years ... so far ... I LOVE what i’ve Seen .. would have done some things different but overall i’m VERY HAPPY with King John ... not sold but like what i;ve seen so far

And Dorsey is DEFINETY a PRO ...

I’m glad Haley’s gone too .. i think it had to be done ... one thing it does for me ... clears up any doubt that he was brought in here to take hues place IF it happenend .. to me that would have been a HORRIBLE WAY TO TREAT HUE ... so that wipes out any thoughts i may have had about that ...

I’m a business guy bro ... not happy about what happened today with Hue but i have NO CONTROL over it all I can do is move on while in mourning ... *L* ...

The theories will abound ... end of the day ... folks will agree with theories that fit their stance before the firing .... me ... i’ll simply move one to the BRIGHT FUTURE we have cause things aren’t getting dismantled this time ...

I BELIEVE the key pieces may very well be in place ... have i mentioned that yet ....

My .02. I believe Haley was hired to take over for Hue. When the power struggle and the comments started, I think Haley played right into the childness of it, and Dorsey got a whiff that he didn't like, and said you know what - Im not going down that road and canned them both. This was move because we have a FQB on the roster and they are trying to protect him from the dysfunction that Hue/Haley had.

Now, they just need to protect him on the field lol.

I think that Haley threw a fit when Saunders was going to be named the interim HC and that the dolts upstairs had no choice but to then fire him.

Could be.

Could be.

Thats a legite theory ... u can definetly connect those dots ...

WILL has a connectable dot theory as well ...

Both theories could be true and are definelty viable ....

Me ... i’m going with ... the losing took its toll on Hue and he wanted to fix the O cause thats what he knew ... Haley bit back ... it caused the rift that led to both there demises ...

I believe thats also a viable theory ...

The one thing that the 3 of us just proved is that FOLKS ARE GONNA SETTLE ON THEORIES THAT FIT THERE STANCE PRIOR TO THE BLOODBATH ...

GREAT MINDS Willie ... *LOL* ...

Diam, just a thought about the haslems. I do not think it is fair to say he made bad choices for our leadership, except from hindsight. When we hired farmer he was the next hot gm candidate. It seems like someone was after him, maybe Miami, and we beat them to the punch with our offer. I do not remember for sure but it seems like feedback for the hire was mostly positive. He turned out to be a real clunker hire but I do not think it was considered so at the time.

When we hired Jackson he was considered the next great coaching hire and we got him ahead of a couple other teams who seemed to be after him. Our history under hue is what it is but I do not remember a great hue and cry about his hire.

Haslem also hired Dorsey who so far seems like a good hire. I also remember a coaching hire, maybe pettine, who was perhaps his third or fourth choice. No t sure what he was supposed to do then. I think Harlem desperately wants a winner and will try dang near anything (see sashi/defillipo experiment) but so far nothing has worked. So now Dorsey gets his chance. I just hope it works

I understand your point, but is it actually accurate?

I understand that the press and some fans promote "the flavor of the month" and both Hue and farmer fit that mold. Fans often times jump on those bandwagons and want the same people.

That does not however give us any indication of how these coaching and GM candidates are viewed in NFL circles.

Pit, I have no access to the inside the organizational thinking. But I am almost certain both those hires were being courted by other teams. That is about all I can go by. Are you saying these two were not desired by other teams??? Or are you saying that being “wanted” by multiple teams does not indicate a good hire??

Have I missed out on reports suggesting the Haslams have done anything other than shut up and let Dorsey run the show since they hired him?

I see the new staff being built and laid out just as Diam suggests it should be.

I'm saying that all one is basing their opinions on is what the press was telling us. We have no way of really knowing what was actually going on behind the scenes.

Dorsey flushed apparently.

Who does he want?

I do remember the thing with Farmer and Miami. We did get Hue interviewed early in the process and when he accepted the job I vaguely remember speculation there was interest from other teams.

Diam got promoted to lead the transition team as quality control overseer. The man for the job. I trust his judgment and Dorsey's more than the has lams. JMO

.. thanks dawg ... bars not exaclty real high in that arena .. sadly ...

U have any grandkids in diapers ... or a dart board .... they’ll get over the bar the Thief and the misses have set ... ...

Thats a GREAT point .... DON’T REALLY WANNA RE-HASH THE PAST ... ooops .. stupid caps ...

I’ll be back later to expand on what i mean ... your point about Farmer and Hue were correct .. its not just the hires ... it starts with the PROCCESS ... i have a few things to do ... will be back tonight or tommorow to elaborate ...

Great point about Farmer and the thief ... i agree .. they were “hot” commodities ... can’t argue that one ...

If the new HC wants him ... i won’t really like it .. the mans to blitz happy for me .. its who he is .. and thats OK, i’m Just not a fan of it ... if the new HC wants him ,.. thats fine with me ..

I think Dorsey is a pro ... i think in this case he will hire a HC to fi the personal we have or will have SMOOTH. QUICK PLAN to transition to get the personal the new HC wants ...

We have TALENT BRO .. weather that fits the 3 - 4 or the 4 - 3 ... i’ll Leave that up to the guys that know the ins and outs better than me ... Vers, bone and a few others ...

I TRUST DORSEY in that I LOVE what he’s done so far ... so i have to trust him on this ... one thing i do know ..

HES A PRO AND for the first time since our return after seeing him in action for a year i actually have more faith in him than i would have in myself, vers, pit, bone and a few others ... now that i’m Actually reading your football takes your climbing up the ladder .. *L* ...

If the thief can quit being the CONTROL FREAK he has been since day 1 and lets Dorsey do his job ... WE HAVE A CHANCE FOR A CHANGE ...

How many times have we heard that the next guy coming in will fit the system to the personnel? I ask because I've lost count.

... and for this reboot, we don't have the luxury of so many draft picks (we do have salary cap, though).

Its not a reboot dawg ... its a new coaching staff ..

That and the fact the TALENTS ON THE ROSTER NOW is what makes this different ...

When i come back and expand ... it’ll be more clear what i mean ...

THIS IS DIFFERENT DAWG ... u have every right to be extremely Leary ... HISTORY has taught us that ... just like before season with my optimism thread about the talent ... this is DIFFERENT ....

I gotta go ... *L* ... gotta Stacy focused on what i’m Doing ... i’m Turning this off casue I have turned into a no discipline weenie ... dang it ...

True, but all those times how many times was their a new GM as well?

The GM is in place, a good one too boot.

I get the hesitation, but Dorsey has my trust.

The Browns also have their QB in place as well as an elite pass rusher and shutdown corner.

This will be an attractive job.

In order to do it right this time Jimmy Haslam has to stay out of the process. The first time he meets the new head coach should be when the guy is signing his contract.

That is all speculation. Al Saunders was never officially named the interim HC.

I think it's as simple as 1. Losing was out of hand. 2. Dorsey nipped a highly toxic situation and just flushed them both. Handled well.

Let Dorsey get his man. Our shelves are 3/4 full this time.

Swap Williams for Saunders, and you still have a plausible situation.

My hope is that Haley did something to get fired. If Dorsey only fired him because of the progress of the offense.... Haley was 8 weeks into his first season here, with mostly new pieces in place on the offense. We'll have beaten our own record for hiring/firing a coach.

It seems like Haley was fired because he had Hue were poison.

The only reason this occurred now(both firings) was the internal strife and the distractions it was making with the team. Wins and Losses weren't the reason for either firing midway through the season. After the season both are probably dismissed for W/L reasons, but this was done because they both could not behave as grown ups and professionals....jmho

Of all the HC's we've had since 99.. have we not figured out that there is no true blueprint or way of 'doing it right?' when it comes to hiring a new HC, and winning games.

Even outside of Cleveland, winning is difficult.

Let me see if I remember this correctly:

Butch Davis had too much power.
Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage were hired together, but were not on the same page.
Mangini hired Kokinis
Holmgren was hired while Mangini was still with the team, kept him because he would have been sad if he fired him, then hired Heckert (RIP) and Shurmur
Haslam buys the team, fires Holmgren, Heckert, and Shurmur. Hires Banner.
Haslam and Banner hire Chud. Fire Chud.
Haslam and Banner hire Pettine. Banner is fired almost immediately after that, Farmer is hired.
Farmer and Pettine hired, Sashi Brown promoted.
Korn Ferry hires Hue Jackson.

I don't really remember Chris Palmer and the process that went into hiring him.

let's make it simple: Dorsey, it's your show. Hire who YOU want. Do the research, treat it like a draft pick.

He will answer to YOU. It's your show.

Palmer Drew the short straw...

"This is all speculation?"

After all the garbage speculation that was posted on this board in recent weeks, you really went there?

Watching the PC this afternoon, nothing has changed w/the Browns.

Jimmy is still going to be involved w/the hiring of the coaching staff. The HC and GM are still going to report to the owner. Jimmy is still going to be actively involved in the football side of things despite being there only about 50 percent of the time.

This team will continue to hire and fire. They will continue to lose.

Haslam kept talking about not wanting to look at the past. I'd say that is rather telling. Some people learn from their mistakes. This idiot doesn't want to look at the past. He wants to continue doing things the same way and is expecting different results.

We Brownsed it again.

This could be considered speculation.

LOL

Want some links where almost every post in a thread is speculation?

Why isn't Saunders the HC now then?

Based on what Haslam said, it sounds like Hue and Haley were fighting, and that, plus the lack of progress on offense, led them to firing both.

So they then decided to name Williams the coach so he didn't throw a fit?


Is that your position?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Then again, I don't want to know.

No idea about how much he sways Dorsey at hire time but Dorsey doesnt seem like a pushover for anyone. HONESTLY..If it it was My BILLION dollar investment, u guys would be complaining about me being too involved. And I wouldnt care a bit..

There was a time when Twitter tweets where not permitted to be posted as fact here.

Why consider them today as factual just because they are permitted as rumors?

That is what he was talking about and what i was talking about.


Calm down man....

Nope. Every post on this board throughout its history is speculation when it comes down to the inner workings of the Browns organization. As I’ve repeatedly stated.

You want me to accept someone on here is “in the know”? I want to see their pay stub where it says Cleveland Browns on it.

Ty sir, that was exactly the post I was referencing.

Your post said you thought Haley threw a fit when Saunders was going to be named HC, so they fired him. If that were true, wouldn't Saunders be the interim HC? Maybe the original post was before Williams was named HC.

The rest is self explanatory. Nice attack though!

He needs to go through the stages of grief. Give him some time.

There have been posters whining, crying, making things up, etc for two freaking years about Hue and you guys are now complaining about me being upset the day he was fired.

Give me a freaking break!

In fairness to the poster it wasn’t a rumor. WKYC posted it as fact. This screw up had nothing to do with Twitter.

No. You brought this upon yourself.

I have to laugh here. You've been...........well, all Hue, all the time, griping about people/fans.

When I heard Hue got fired, you were the first one I thought of. As in "vers is going to have a meltdown, and blame this firing on the fans." Thank you, you didn't disappoint.

Sorry kids, no speculation on Versatile's part here. Jimmy is already screwing up.

Want proof? Pay attention to that press conference. Jimmy said that Dorsey would continue to report to him, and so will interim head coach Williams.

In other words, Jimmy and Dee have learned NOTHING! They are keeping the same dysfunctional management structure and Jimmy Haslam will continue to be a stupid meddler.

Versatile and I were on opposite sides of the Hue Jackson issue, but we both agree on one thing - "Same ole Browns".

I don't know that people were making stuff up. I think Hue said we would win 4 Superbowls before he was done as Browns head coach. He didn't win 4 games in 2.5 years.


Think about that, he didn't win 4 friggen games. I know you were in invested in the guy, but never ride a stock to the bottom. At some point you have to bail.

Your theories intrigue me. Sign me up for your newsletter.

Alright. I can't deal w/you anymore. Have fun.

So...............uh............who should the GM report to if not the damn owners? Himself?

I think the problem is with the head coach reporting to the owner and not the GM

Not really. The owner is only going to the GM and asking, “why is saying to me?”

Coach reports to GM, who has authority to hire and fire the coach. GM reports to owners, who have hire and fire authority over the GM.

The result is a unified and coherent chain of command with a smart, talented football professional in overall charge of the team.

This is a fairly common managerial structure in the NFL and one that usually works well.

It is....that creates a wedge. I suspect next year that the coach will report to the GM. That is how Jackson got by the last year and a half. He should have been canned after a 1 win season. Last year, zero wins.....come on. He should have never been leading this team this year.

I have a feeling, no matter what Haslam may have said, that this is exactly what Dorsey is planning for the heirarchy.

Pdawg, haslem said in the pc that they would look at the structure after the season. I believe when the new coach is hired he will report to Dorsey.

I hope what you say is true. I really do hope. But hope is a pathetic wasted emotion for Browns fans. The Haslams will crush our lame hopes of Dorsey in charge.

The Haslams love meddling with their team. They don't care about winning and losing. Not really. Few NFL owners do. They all get their guaranteed profits and the prestige of being in the NFL owner's club. And they get to play with their shiny toy.

Haslams don't care about the fans and they don't care about making the hard choices necessary to win. Choices like not meddling. Like children on Christmas morning, they just want to play with their toy.

Dude was laughing at the reporter who asked him the question. He ain't changing crap.

OK, why is interim head coach Greg Williams reporting directly to Haslam, as Haslam explained in the press conference?

If Haslam was really planning on changing the management structure to something much better, like the coach reporting to Dorsey, why not start with this improvement right here, right now?

Answer: Because Jimmuh is an obsessive-compulsive idiot meddler who has no intention of changing his destructive habits. Same ole Browns.

I watched the PC, he said for the remainder of this year, it will continue and next year they will reevaluate. Dont leave out information that was stated to fit an agenda.

Thats very very disheartening to me bro ... VERY VERY DEPRESSING ... dang ... this dude is a MORON ... he is looking that GIFT HORSE squarely in the eye and not blinking ... MORON ...

Gosh ... well bro ...

IMO he backed into Dorsey ... maybe he will back in to a GREAT HEAD COACH ... all we can do is hope ...

Sounds like his presser blew my hope up at things doing the right way ... WHAT S SHAME ... its not that hard bro ... why he thinks he’s “special” and needs to be different is MIND BOGGLING ...

He’s such a CONTROL FREAK ... :thumbsdwon: ...

Oh well bro ... HERE’S TO LUCKING OUT cause its all were ever gonna have with this moron .. if he screws this up .. WE’LL NEVER BE GOOD UNDER HIS OWNERSHIP .... we were/are in a GREAT SPOT right now ... lets hope we get lucky again ... its all we got this bafoon of an owner ..

I like the sounds of that ...MY DREAM IS NOT DEAD .... wooohoooo ... odds aren’t good ... but u never know ...

PLEASE U THIEVING BAFOON ... get out of the way .... take the misses ... go home and enjoy football sundays with your family and friends .. bring the great grand kid and the grandkids ... STAY AWAY THE OTHER 6 DAYS while your at it ... take the grand kids on a tour of amusement parks ...

DO THAT JOB ... PRETTY PRETTY PLEASE .... its a great job ... especially for repentant scum ...

There's a positive here with Dorsey, A FOOTBALL GUY in town. It's the first time we've had that.

It's widely reported that Haslam wanted Haley gone. Dorsey wanted Jackson gone. With BOTH gone it looks like Dorsey got thru to Haslam and he LET DORSEY DO HIS JOB.

I'd bet anything that Dorsey picks the permanent HC and he reports to Dorsey. And this STUPIDITY of a HC reporting to the Owner ENDS RIGHT HERE.

Dorsey won't settle for that BS.

We're FINE GOING FORWARD.

WE got rid of the FINAL PIECE OF STENCH of 3 wins.

Jackson just wasn't the guy Dorsey trusts to take the TALENT on this roster to the next level. As simple as that. It was gonna happen sooner or later.

John Dorsey is going to SCHOOL Haslam on how to run an NFL Front Office and an NFL Football Team.

Bro, I suggest you watch the press conference for yourself and then evaluate, rather than listening to interpretations of it.

I will tell you this.........I was disappointed and saddened when the news broke about Hue being fired. However, after watching the PC later that afternoon, I became angry and disgusted. Ignorance, stubbornness, arrogance, etc.

Watch it and then come back here and tell me that it's different this time.

Here it is word for word, but you can make up whatever other garbage you want.

On the structure of the organization:

“I think I have said very clearly that our focus is on the last eight games, winning as many of those as we can and helping Gregg anyway that we can. At the end of the year, depending on what happens, we will evaluate everything.”

Bro, watch the entire press conference.

I liked Hue but something truly was missing. And whatever it was it was getting worse with each game this year.
I think he started to lose some of the team and was also show Panic which was not pretty.

In the process I hope our Franchise QB prospect does not becom damaged goods. We need to get this RIGHT as you say. Although I want Williams to stay. I think the players react well with him and the D is actually having some success.

I really, really want Lincoln Riley as our new HC and the guy to run the O...he is use to doing both and with Williams he won't have to worry about the D. He is an incredible offensive mind.

At the end of the day, it isn't different this time until it PROVES itself to be.

We've been through this too many times to hear a move announced and just stand and applaud and lay out a decree "it will FINALLY be different this time!".

Jimmy chases Dorsey away?

The impression left on me after the PC was of Jimmy trying desperately to hold all the power. I think he knows it may not be the correct path. Just hope the GM doesn't tell him to stick it before we see if what's currently cooking is any good.

I don't know. I kind of like the HC reporting to the owner, and not the GM.

I think its a good checks and balance between the HC and GM. Neither should be higher than the other in my book. They should be at level playing fields.

GM get the players. HC puts the guys on the field, and HC tells the GM what position he needs help.

I prefer the more traditional arrangement, where the coach reports to the GM. (unless you hire a real superstar, established coach)

I agree. I wish we'd just do it the "normal" way

If Kevin Costner was our GM, the coaches would report to him.

I agree. I like the coach reporting to the GM.

That isn't to say the head coach shouldn't have a open door to the owners office, he should.

I also like a owner active in meeting when the GM and coach are discussing needs etc. That way he know who wants what and who wants who. He will have a clear understanding on where any difference may be, so when a time might come he has to dismiss one or the other.


Just a comment here, some years ago we had a hands off, stay away owner in Randy Lerner. He was ripped because he didn't care and cared more about a soccer team in England. Now we have a owner who does care, and he does, and people want him to be Randy Lerner.

I don't want Jimmy talking about X's and O's, or being involved in player evaluations and things of that nature, but I do want him involved in the meetings so he knows where everybody stands and he doesn't make a stupid decision based on what somebody tells him and he doesn't have the true facts.


I know you guys and gals. If you came in to a few $billion and were allowed in the club, you'd be involved as all heck. So would I. Jimmy has deep football roots at the college level. He is a fan, just like you and I. I don't see any flaws in the way he is doing this except he has the head coach and GM on equal footing, both reporting to him.

I think the GM should trump the head coach. If he feels the need to keep them equal, maybe he needs a President of the corporation as a buffer between him and the hands on guys. Jimmy is more the Chairman of the Board.

Because he is the interim head coach.? I will bet any takers a strawberry shake that the new coach will report to Dorsey. And jimmy is a type a personality, highly driven highly successful businessman who has found it way more difficult to build a winner than he ever imagined. and he is certainly no idiot. he has hired and fired coaches and gms in an effort to win. Many of those were considered good hires at the time. Did he hire chud?? I think he did and I think most fans liked the hire. He was probably too quick on the trigger to fire him but I remember talk that the team quit on him.

Farmer and Jackson were considered outstanding hires. They just did not work out. The whole sashi/ depodesto experiment was radical but it showed haslem was willing to go out on a limb. I do not know the guy but I would bet if you gave him sodium Pentothal and asked what regrets he had I think canning chud after a year would be one and the other would be the tear down.

If he had any idea that teardown would result in 1-31 he would have said no way in heck. That was a disaster and he knows it. What I find the most unbelievable is that jimmy does not want a winner. He does and I hope that soon we get one.

I thought Haslam made it clear that when he says they report to him, he meant they did it as a group. That's what I got from his statement, not that the coach comes in and reports, and then Dorsey comes in and reports. It was more that they met with him and discussed what was going on. I can't see a problem with that.

The thing is the fans and the media like to spin it that Haslam is telling them how to do their job. I don't think that is even remotely close to what is actually happening.

Diam, watch the PC for yourself.

I watched it start to finish. He said they would look at structure at the end of the season. If Dorsey wants the coach to report to him, he will. This episode shows me that haslem is all in on Dorsey.

I didn't get that feeling. If anything there were a few awkward moments bc Haslem wouldn't say that going forward the HC would report to Dorsey.

I was talking to Diam. And I am not just talking about one sentence. I'm talking about a general feeling of Haslam and the state of things.

I'm not telling Diam what to think. I'm asking him to watch the entire PC and make up his own mind about the direction of the team.

I hope that is okay w/you?

you made a public comment on a public board and I commented on it publicly I think that is how it works.

Not sure I get your point. I was just clarifying that I was not arguing w/you. I was asking Diam to watch the PC and make up his own mind. It had nothing to do w/you and I am not interested in arguing w/you.

But, others have watched it and disagree with your take.

Is that okay?

What take?

I agree, and I see it more as him being an arbitrator between the head Coach and GM.

Hue Jackson described it as an open door policy, which equates to transparency between the department's of a franchise, hopefully working toward a common goal and of one mind.

Anyway as per usual the facts that people want to hear are embellished.

That's for sure. LOL

Because we know that Jimmy Haslam has a great track record of sticking w/his hires and not blowing things up.

Exactly.

What once started as a promising season has dissolved into this.

When you don't see or hear Haslam you kind of forget.

Then he appears and just like that it all comes back.

So here we are with a season in ruin. Eight weeks of who is going to be our next savior?

I wish "Please do the Right Thing " had clout.

Unfortunately it does not.

Watching the press conference it made me come to boil.

Dorsey appeared subservient.

This will be again a Haslam decision.

I don't see an answer. I didn't hear Haslam say he will will look to correct a structural fault.

Honestly I am disheartened.

As usual, except for some qbs, we agree. LOL

I wasn't angry when we fired Hue. I was just sad and disappointed.

Then, I watched the presser........and man, I got very angry and came on here and went off. Haslam is slime.

And if I am reading his body language and facial expressions correctly, Dorsey is next!

I think that sums it up perfectly.

One more thing...........Diam, I got on your ass a bit for trashing the Haslams. I said it appeared to be different this time. I said they were showing fortitude and I attributed that to Dee's work in the media and being a calming influence on Jimmy. You never agreed w/that.

You were right. I was wrong. My apologies, sir.

I didn't get this, but if Haslam doesn't get out of the way, it won't matter if Dorsey is here or not.

No need to apologize bro ... difference of opinion is all, nothing personal ... unfortunatley for us it turned out worst case ...

I don’t wanna go watch the presser .... i get the feeling its gonna kill my hope ... i dont want to rely purely on luck again ...

Its a really attractive job ... i can’t come to grips with the thief not getting out of the way ...

This could be soooooo good right now .... were in such good shape ...

PLEASE GET LUCKY ... PLEASE GET LUCKY ...

Bro...............I only wanted you to watch the presser because there were two separate opinions of what went down.

I simply asked you to make up your own mind instead of listening to those guys.......or me.

I trusted your judgement.

I think that is fair.

I do get you not wanting to watch it...LOL

I just don't want to argue w/those guys, so I asked you to judge for yourself how much Jimmy has changed.


And thanks for saying I don't need to apologize, but you were right and I was wrong. That's just fair.

And bro ... if we hire a college coach i’m gonna scream ...

And then next years destination may be back to the FACTORY OF SADNESS ....

My guess is you will be screaming.

I think Lincoln Riley will be the next HC of the Browns. It's all about Baker.

As it should be.

I disagree. He has regressed as teams have figured him out.

It isn't fair for other players to take all the blame and not get any credit while Baker gets no blame and all the credit.

That will create a toxic atmosphere.

Dude isn't playing very well. He isn't reading coverages. His accuracy has gotten worse.

I think he has a good shot of being a good qb, but there is no way he is a sure thing.

There is nothing wrong with Baker.

He was saddled with a crappy OC and a crappy HC, a GM who took his #1 WR away, nobody to throw to, nobody to block the blitz, got thrown in instead of sitting and learning because the starting QB was garbage.

Pretty sure Baker would have been ok with being drafted by anyone else right now.

Look bro ... Neither of us knows what transpired within the Browns office and behind the public's eye.

I rooted for Hue to have success because that would have meant that the team was also.

Jimmy might be what people say he is ,but if we had two Professional adults behaving like children, then shame on them.

That is not creating a winning culture in my book.

QB is the most important position in all of sports.

Baker has shown enough that you need to nurture his development. If successful, it should lead to successful seasons for 10+ years.

While I agree he has regressed, I don't think you can dismiss the effect of the Hue/Haley relationship on his play the last few games.

And as for him getting all the credit and no blame and the players getting mad about that, is that really a factor here? You've mentioned this multiple times. The guy defects all the praise and consistently takes all the blame. These are all adults here. If these guys are getting hurt because they feel slighted by the attention the QB is getting, maybe they should pick a different sport. That's just the way it is in the NFL.

It amazes me that you have called me out a few times w/in the last 2 days, but you never said a freaking word when guys constantly made crap up about Hue, such as when peenie said Hue was weak after watching Hard Knocks. You know, the same episode in which Hue lost his mother and was on the practice field at the scheduled time and never said a word to his players.

Is that weak?

Yet, you never said a word about that or similar posts.

Get outta my face.

And, with all your maturity and intelligence.............you say "peenie". Way to be a grown up.

One thing that, perhaps you have forgotten: Hue's record.

Stalker.

Good grief! Give your dance partner a call you're in need of a pick me up.

By your leave.

Dorsey hit on the draft, he's not gone. Been too many years we whiffed on high picks for Jimmy to do that.

WHY?

I seriously doubt Dorsey goes to the College ranks.

I'm looking at Taub from KC.

Could be, like the rest of us, I have no clue who we are going to hire.

All I know is that both Dorsey and whoever takes the helm need to have similar visions on how things need to be.

It seems pretty clear to me that he and Hue didn't have the same views. I agree that Haslam created this situation. He should have let Dorsey bring in his own coach after last season and not forced a wedding on the two.

I think that Dorsey is finally getting through to Jimmy. I hope so anyway. The change in staff at this point in the season is a good sign that it is beginning, or has happened.

Have you learned nothing from the Tim Couch and Charlie Frye eras?

Once you start blaming the OL, the WR's and the OC, its a clear sign that the QB is not good enough.

If Baker is good, he won't need any excuses for his lack of performance.

I agree...

I'd give Lincoln Riley less than 1% chance to be the next head coach of the Browns...

At this point, I'd think someone like Schwartz is the current favorite to land the job.

Maybe...any of this can be right or wrong. I just get the feeling that Dorsey is going to go for a guy who can get the QB playing to his strengths.

I don't know if it will be Riley, but I do think it will be someone a little more current in their views of offensive football.

Baker has made no excuses.

All things considered he has played as well as can be expected.

j/c

In regards to Baker. Baker certainly has talent. But the fact is the plan was to sit him this year. There are reasons for that. Dorsey had the exact same plan for Mahomes and we can all see the dividends that paid.

Baker being forced into the position he is currently in isn't doing him any favors. It isn't a positive in his development. Being thrown into the fire is something many fans seem to think is a good thing. Maybe so until the player starts getting burned.

Agreed. With all the injuries and said turmoil he has done really well. The talent is there it just needs to be developed further as well as getting more talent around him; playmakers!!

Vers, in response to your post about BM's looking worse. I think it's more accepted (by the public) for a rookie QB to hit the wall at about midway through the season than it is for the other positions.

People expect it from the QB, as defenses have tape on them and can pick apart their tendencies.

I think fans give more slack to, say, an offensive lineman, not necessarily because of a lack of learning curve, but because they've been told over and over how steep the learning curve is for the QB.

That makes sense.

Yes.


I think many people don't realize there's a steep learning curve for an offensive lineman as well...

Learning and playing are different. Knowing your assignments comes before winning those little wars. Lines have to play together as schemed and called. But they have to get used to the guys around them too. Knowing your job and doing your job can be worlds apart IMO.

If it is Toub then we know Dorsey is making the call. Riley might be the guy, but my money would be on Toub right now.

Getting lost in all of this talk is Haslem did NOT want to fire Hue. Dorsey had to talk him into it so he obviously has his ear right now.

Too many rumors w/out quotes from the principles are being stated as fact.

Opinions are cool. So is speculation. But stating rumors as fact are not.

There have been multiple posts about what was going on in Berea stated factually. Reading "reports" does not make the rumors true or untrue.

I don't really want a college guy either. I'm looking at Toub as well.

I don't know about that last part. Haslam was the one that said internal discord would not be tolerated. He seemed pretty emphatic when he said that. If anything, I would assume the opposite.

in todays current NFL on offense a successful QB needs a combo of the following

a WR that can take the top off the defense
TE that can dominate the middle of the field
from hash mark to hash mark
or a RB that can lineup wide a the x y z spots Mayfield has really none of those elements
the offense lacks a real end zone threat.

Grossi laid out a theory yesterday that actually seemed plausible on the Next Level 850 (FYI, I am not a Grossi fan, but he made some good points)

He stated that the browns PR Monday morning released the schedule with nothing out of the ordinary. They even stated that Hue would be available to the media at his normal time of I think he said 3:30.

Grossi's point was, if you are going to fire your coach, you don't release to the media he was gong to be available later that day.

Bitonio stated it was like any other Monday. they went to their first meeting, then heard Hue had been fired on their phones.

Grossi contest that Hue showed up, and demanded Haley was fired. Then they fired Hue. He then contest that either 1 of 2 things happened, as to why Haley was let go an hour later.

1. Haley may have been told Gregg was going to be the Interim, and he threw a fit, and they canned him.

or

2. Haley had been disruptive and insubordinate all season trying to undermine Hue (I.E. starting Gordon, not giving Chubb carries, refusing to change offense). After firing Hue they thought about it, and though was just best to move on from all this childish behavior.

I easily can see both scenarios have taken place...I don't think we will ever know for sure unless Jackson writes a book 1-31: The Hue Jackson Story of Triumph and WHY its Not my Fault. I just think IMO that Grossi may have actually got something right here.

The PR releasing Hue was scheduled to meet w/ media as normal later in the day is telling to me they were NOT going to fire Hue and something happened on Monday morning.

This should and I think always has been since the hire. Dorsey's team. I think he can work well with any HC and he has shown with two teams to be able to get the talent needed by the SYSTEM laid out.

It has always been my hope that the GM Dorsey who has proven competency in the NFL to get HIS GUY he worked well with guys given to him...now it will be nice to see him pick his GUY...don't forget all those Oklahoma games he went to and that included practices as he was an Unemployed FO guy. He got to know Mayfield foward and backwards...guess who else he learned to know??? Lincoln Riley here we go!

jmhwish!

I doubt we'll ever get the full story, or even half the story. That scenario is at least plausible.

Well if it is a rumor than almost every national guy (Rap, Adam S, etc) and local guys (Rueter, Adkins, etc) are passing along the same rumor.

Do we know for sure? No you can never know anything for sure unless you are in the room. However, when a large quantity of the people who get PAID to report on a subject are hearing the same thing then I am comfortable believing it.

Agree. I can see either way. I don't think we ever will.

You do realize that a lot of the reporting comes from one reporter and then national guys pick up on that information and post the same thing, right?

And I wasn't picking on you specifically. I have seen a ton of examples of posters using reports, or what this board used to call rumors and did not allow, as factual evidence.

I realize I won't be able to stop that habit from continuing, but I think it is w/in my rights to point out that rumors are not necessarily true or false.

Here are quotes/links though.....


https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1056941917370494976

[Rapoport] As of early this morning, the #Browns could have gone one of two ways: Make a change at OC or make a change at head coach. Owner Jimmy Haslam sounded like he wanted to keep Hue Jackson. GM John Dorsey wanted to move on. In the end, they moved on from Hue Jackson.

https://twitter.com/RuiterWrongFAN/status/1056951144134643712

That was just a quick search.....plenty more saying the same thing. I don't post rumors as opinions, but when reports are made by numerous people I think we have to give them at least plausible validity.....whether we like the report or not.

Our last two games both losses are arguably two of Baker's worst he seemed to be running for his life and had no chance as a young rookie QB. But lets look at what he has done in this terrible situation that he definitely was thrown into.

45 completions out of 70 attempts. 64.3%

395 total yards...not much.

4 TD and 1 INT that was a decent punt.

This is what he has provided in two ugly situations. I think the environment has been worse these last two games without a doubt. I think our Franchise QB as withstood this mad house and has survived. Lets hope we right the ship as a TEAM as far as QB a few posters have not like the Baker choice from the get go. They have been proven wrong all the way. We got our guy

jmho but backed by facts.

You are completely missing my point, but whatever...

It definitely hard to express oneself on a message board that is why I think face to face with a beer in hand turns out with great discussion - on a message board more hatred and tit for tat I think.

jmho

Ruiter was saying last week (along with Adkins) that Dorsey wanted Hue gone after the Bucs loss. It's why I posted to you and Diam last week that we might not agree with it but he was basically a dead man walking. So it isn't a new report actually as Ruiter/Adkins had been saying this for over a week before it happened.

What some don't realize, is there will be a report usually from a local guy - then the next guy will call HIS source to see if the report has legs, then he will call ANOTHER source to see if that SAME report also has legs.

So the one report from the local guy that was listed, will be verified by multiple sources before its re-reported by the next guy, and then the same by the next guy.

If they do not use their own sources they will typically say "Per Jason LaCanfora" or "Per Shefter". It they simply report it, it means its per them and verified by their sources.

Multiple NATIONAL and LOCAL guys REPORTED the story. They didn't just simply put out "per shefter", some did - but a lot of others verified w/ their sources and believe to be true.

spot on Vers

Mary Kay reports it, then someone else parrots it, then when a Rappaort repeats it, it grows like wildfire and every is, was or wannabe reporter latches on and its fact.

My point is when enough people who are paid to report on a sport all say the same thing is happening it isn't a rumor. It could be false (the infamous Fake News nonsense) but it isn't a rumor. You or I can choose whether to believe what is said, but it is the report we choose not to believe not a rumor.

Sorry to be defensive, but I hate rumors (Browns are trading for OBJ stuff) and don't post them on this board. Anything I post I say imho or I commenting on a report such as what is posted above.

I certainly don't question the talent that Mayfield possesses. I'm more concerned about the situation he's been placed in.

I was for giving Hue this season and judging his performance at seasons end. But we were losing games we should have won and things seemed to be going backwards. I don't see anything gained any time a team fires their HC mid season. But in this case, I at least understand the reasoning why they didn't let it continue.

I am hoping for some better performance out of BM and the offense, the defensive secondary, and ST's.

Can anybody see us doing any better.

If Haslam did not want to fire Hue then he would not have done it.

Haslam has no clue to what he is doing. He is a reactionary owner. If the media reports enough or if he "hears" about things; he reacts.

He has no clear strategy and if forms one; he can be swayed to change. In addition he is liar.

I have zero respect for him.

Dorsey is a football guy. He knows how to evaluate players. He is not a organizational diplomat. And I seriously doubt that he will stand up to Haslam.

This is all Haslam. He either gives Dorsey the authority to structure all football operations or he will call the shots. Collaborative to Haslam means he makes the decision.

I'm not really sure why we should expect that. We're starting out playing KC. It's a team that Dorsey has already built. They have a lot of weapons. It doesn't look like a positive outcome.

Getting Higgins back would be very helpful. But I think a lot of people disregard how this much upheaval in the coaching staff has on a team and its players. Very rarely has changing HC's and an OC mid season led to anything positive.

Impossible? No.

Highly unlikely? Definitely.

Well most reports are that Haslam wanted to fire haley, Dorsey wanted to fire hue.

Haslam setup the structure like it is, because he trusted HUE. he gave Hue a lot of power in that building, and we saw it. The second it came down to sashi or hue, it was Hue he rode with. Lets not forget it was sashi that drafted decent players and set us up with a lot of picks. It was hue that wanted to mortgage our future for AJ McCarron. Think about that, if not for Sashi "forgetting paperwork" Hue would have traded essentiall Nick Chubb and Chad Thomas for AJ McCarron.

Haslam, I think is learning. People are trashing him for the carousel of coaches - understandably so. But lets look at it objectively a little.

1. Not a single coach we have fired has had success again as a HC afterwards. Not one.

2. His biggest complaint from us is his lack of continuity, but the dude was willing to keep a coach 1-31 for continuity. It was unprecedented that Hue returned to this team this year, and we were a joke for letting him - which was simply because of Haslam trying to for continuity.

You don't become a billionaire with some type of strategy. Haslam took a big swing with Sashi, podesta, etc. He was TRYING to look for a new model and new way of thinking. SPorts are ever changing. Haslam failed in his doing this, yes. Miserably so. We know that. But he had the cajones to know he failed, and cut ties with Hue - the last piece to that failed project.

Cool. I don't know him personally, so I cannot judge respect or not for him. Although, the beer at the press conference was pretty cool.

I think he already has. That's why Hue Jackson was fired on Monday.

Normally when you spend a billion dollars on something, its all yours.


I highly doubt there is an owner in football where the owner doesn't have a say or call some shots. I would even say Kraft in NE gives his input.

There is not a organization on EARTH where the owner of that organization doesn't have say in the operation.

"Well most reports are that Haslam wanted to fire haley, Dorsey wanted to fire hue."
=================================================

Does Dorsey or Haslam make the final decision?
======================================================
"1. Not a single coach we have fired has had success again as a HC afterwards. Not one. "
=========================================

Who hired them?
===========================================
"You don't become a billionaire with some type of strategy."
==============================================
He didn't become a billionaire. He was willed as one. In addition it was not earned in football.
==============================================

Hue Jackson was fired because Haslam fired him. It is not Dorsey's decision. Haslam and his wife made the decision.

They own the team and have the right do as they please.

All the rest about Dorsey wanting to fire Hue is pure speculation.

Right up till he was fired Hue stated publicly that he had the support of Halsam. When asked how did he know that?
He said "through conversations".

Haslam lied. Take it any way you want to believe.

Every employee of every company has the support of their boss, until they don't. lol

You call it a lie, I call it doing what you feel is best for your organization

I manage a credit union. I have faith my employees are doing their job, and they have my support. If I come into work tomorrow, and find out my employees are out of balance 500 dollars from the night before, they are immediately terminated. But the night before we had conversations they were a great employee.

eh, I call them news reports w/ sources. but I guess so. I also call it deductive reasoning. Dorsey didn't hire hue. Dorseys job is directly correlated with the success of the team. Dorsey had a HC he did not hire that went 1-31. I don't think its out of reason he wanted to fire hue.

I think ultimately it is the owner that makes the firing official. While he may not have wanted to fire Hue, he hired Dorsey to right the ship and sometimes you have to go against your personal feelings and listen to the guy that you think knows what he is talking about. I always thought that was sorta what happened with Chud. Banner wanted Chud gone, thinking he/ Lombardi could land a high profile guy. Haslam pulls the trigger because he has hired a guy (Banner) to make those kind of decisions. When it blows up in Banners face, Haslam has no real choice but to get rid of him. The Chud thing is one that I don't tend to blame on Haslam.

Truth is truth. Lies are lies.

He lied to Hue when he hired him. He lied to him right up to telling the truth. That he was terminated.

I can speculate as well. Hard Knocks revealed the relationship between Hue and Dorsey. Not only when Hue's mother died. But every meeting captured on film.

A two way street Hue saying he believed in what Dorsey had done and what he was doing. Dorsey supporting Hue.

Yes. Dorsey didn't hire Hue. But he knew what kind of talent Hue had to work with. He turned over 60% of the roster. That is why he said "you need some real football players".

I can speculate also. He believed Hue could win with the new roster. And he was supporting Hue. When Haslam was made privy to the "internal discord" between Hue and Haley. He had all he needed to fire Hue and justify it to the fans and media.

1-31, recent collapse, internal discord.

Williams knows it is a sham. He is a temporary convenient band aid. Williams and the rest of the staff will be gone at years end.

If people are gullible enough to believe that some hot coordinator or the latest college genius will be a savior. They are dead wrong.

Organizations win not coaches and players.

It starts at the top with someone with a clear vision of how to build a football organization. Create the structure. Hire the right people and give them the support to do their job. Then give them the time to do it.

No continuity then your back on the merry-go-round.

Until Haslam figures it out. Nothing will change.

No one lied to Hue when he was hired.

How do you know?

Hue was told this was not a rebuild. That is is about winning now.

Sashi gutted the team. Moved out all the veterans. Intentionally tanked the team for draft picks.

Do you honestly believe Hue took the job knowing what would take place?

Knowing he would be expected to win with three quarterbacks on the team with not one single NFL win?

Really?

Coming to the Browns everybody in the NFL coaching community knew Hue was a good football coach. That is why he got the job.

The record of the Browns is the record of ownership.

You and others have your scapegoat. Except you got the wrong guy.

He doesn't know. However, if those guys say it enough, it becomes the truth.

It blows my mind.

Kyle Shanahan in my opinion is a sharp offensive head coach. He has pedigree. He has a productive record. His team is now 1-7.

I guess he should get fired as well.

It's effing joke.

Most have no idea what even makes up a good coach.

Hey let's hire Brian Billick he won a Super Bowl.

Just remember this..........the same guys that spearheaded the Hue attacks are the same guys who said Shanny sucked.

Hell, I remember when Cleveland fans said Arians sucked.


I remember when they said Belichick sucked.

The worst part is that the guys who really know football don't make such bold and ridiculous evaluations before it's time. The guys who never played the game are the ones always acting like they are football experts.

I enjoy football discussion. I expect different takes.

That is how good discussions take place.

What rubs me the wrong way are opinions based upon second hand unsubstantiated garbage.

I try really hard to refrain from any personal attacks.

I don't post to do that. I post to discuss football.

Those that wanted Hue fired. I don't care. They can have their reasons. Some maybe legit.

But I can tell garbage when I read it.

Everybody is entitled to their take on football and the events around it. But damn at least have some sound reasoning behind it.

I like going back and forth with guys. Just back it up with something.

I don't believe my opinion is any more valid than anyone's. Unless I smell garbage.

I remember you and I arguing about a few things. You won a couple and I won a couple. I don't think we ever got disrespectful and neither of us ever argued w/out substance.

You were definitely right about Wentz and I was wrong. I think I was right about TRich. There are other examples, but it was all good.

The problem is that this board has too many posters that don't know much about football and pretend like they do and the discussions become all about agenda.

Hell, there a several posters continuing to slam Hue on the Hue is Fired thread. Dude's gone. They won. But, they continue to gloat and rub it in.

Those guys are bad for the board and I hope Purp gets that. I think he might.

Hous wanted Hue gone. But at least he backed it up with why. I respect that.

If I pimp a guy I watch his tape. All of it plus I look for other things that are verifiable.

All the crap written about Rosen was s bunch of unsubstantiated garbage. He wasn't my first choice. But I still believe he will be a good player.

I liked Baker coming out. I saw a lot of things I liked about him. He was still behind Darnold and Rosen for me.

But after what I have seen from Baker. I am encouraged. I think he is a promising talent. Has he arrived? Hell no.

He has a lot to learn. But I think he will learn.

Despite what is going on. He is gaining valuable experience.

Haslam really gets to me. Lerner Jr. At least he figured out he didn't know what he was doing. Haslam is a greedy crook who committed fraud. His ego is fueled by being a NFL owner. The problem lies with the fact he believes he knows what he is doing.

Obviously his record proves otherwise.

The draft is over and I always try to leave my pre-draft thoughts in the background. We didn't take the guy I want. Big deal. I'm just a dummy on a message board. Those guys are highly paid professionals who have access to way more information than dummies like me.

Baker? I like him way more than I did before the draft. He has a certain personna about him that I like. The moment does not seem too big for him. He has a very good arm. He has very little fear. On the negative side, he is not reading defenses pre or post snap. He's holding the ball too long. He's not seeing open WRs. He is not as accurate as some claim.

I think he has a real shot. But, I don't think it is a given. I hope he isn't a coach killer. I'm not sure I like hearing his comments on the coaching situation.

My point on the draft was at least do your homework. That includes what's going on.

Comment: "Hue wasn't lied to".

Anyway. Baker just watch it play out. That goes for the others in his class.

Then there contract expires and now are they free agents or guys who get that second contract.

Bro, just ignore those guys who make comments like that. I refuse to even respond to those guys anymore.

And you know this how?

You don't.

Hue knew what he was getting into. We all knew. Stop trying to pretend otherwise.

So bonefish, when you said that haslem used the discord as an excuse to fire hue, does that mean that the reports that Dorsey wanted to fire hue and keep Haley while haslem wanted to fire Haley and keep hue were in error??

I do not think haslem is nearly the ogre he is made out to be.

It has been widely reported that Hue was assured that this wouldn't be a complete tear down and rebuild, right before the team didn't even try to keep important players (all starting and/or contributing to very good teams, by the way) like Mack, Schwartz, Gipson, and Benjamin, plus Bademosi, who helped New England. We also cut veteran leaders like Karlos Dansby. (who sure looked washed up in Cincy and Arizona)

I think that Hue was careful to paint a pretty picture in public, but I am sure that he was blindsided by subtracting quality and adding guys like Alvin Bailey, Justin Tuggle, Demario Davis (who we cut the following year, only to watch him play well elsewhere) and Rahim Moore. Somehow that doesn't seem like an even trade to me, or to anyone with any knowledge of the game of football, I would guess.

Haslam mentioned when he announced that Hue would be retained for this season, said that Hue was blindsided by the disregard for signing our own free agents. Hue was counting on a solid OL, and instead had to throw together line without Mack or Schwartz.

At the time he was hired, I do not for a second think that Hue thought that the team would be stripped down to the rafters. In fact, Haslem has said this.

Anyway, I think that the losing with a substandard roster got to Hue, and it affected him badly. I think that he became so desperate to win that he did a lot of uncharacteristic, and even stupid things. I do not think that the roster was what he was led to believe it would be when he was hired, though. I think that was a major contributing factor. I also think that Hue took a lot of bullets for the front office. Do I think that he believed everything he said, for example, about the team allowing all of their free agents to walk? No. I think that he was being a good soldier. Do I think that he was happy when the team passed on QBs who stood a better than average chance of succeeding in the NFL? Not a chance. Do I think that he was happy to have a roster of QBs last year who had never won a game between them? Nope. I think that all of this stuff wore on him, but he still played the good soldier in public.

I think that this year was the time when it really hit him hard, in public. I also think that essentially being betrayed by the coordinator he hired also hit him hard. (starting when Haley started Gordon after Hue said, very publicly, that he would not start, for example)

I think that the job overwhelmed Hue. I think that there are a lot of reasons for that. Some are on him, and many are on the front office.

Being a man of my word i went and watched it ... well it was after midnight bit i haven’t gone to bed yet so as far as i’m Concerned it’s still yesterday ... *L* ...

I don’t know what to think .. i was prepared for the worst ... so it wasn’t as bad as i thought it would be ... but it wasn’t good ... hes a SNAKE and Dorsey is either a snake or really un comfie dealing with the press .. he reminded me of the squirrelly villain in every cartoon from when i was a kid .. *L* ...

I was really PEED AT THE CHICKEN CRAP REPORTERS ... none of them had the guts to ask the questions that needed to be asked .. the one bafoon tried to and was so nervous he couldn’t spit it out ... THEY WERE PATHETIC ...

Dorsey and the Thief kept saying they were solely focused on helping Gregg win ... OK ... ummmm ... common sense follow up question may be ....

Ummmm .... hey fellas .. I got that your sole focus is to help Greg win ... your working hard way more than 8 hour days ... what r ya’all doing all day u don’t have time to start looking for a new HC ... u on he field helping coach and implement the game plan ... u going over film with the coaches ... helping them grade and evaluate and game plan ...

WTF fellas ... what exactly does focusing all our efforts helping Greg mean to u guys ... especially u thief ...

Then the one bafoon couldn’t spit it out ... yo thief .. what happens in those meetings ... do they tell u whats going on or are they running things by u to get your approval ... do u have input in personal decision if so how much and at what stage ..

I mean .. its like it was announced at the presser that Hue was fired ... NO ONE SEEMED PREPARED ...

MORONS ...

The thief is a SNAKE ... he’s a LIAR ...

No one asked ... some one mentioned the 4 failures all ready and the mumbling non preperaed gutless bafoon couldn’t spit out the simple follow up words in a question form ... DO U MAYBE THINK MAYBE U OUGHTA STEP BACK AND REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE PROCESS AND LET KING JOHN DO HS JOB CAUSE SO FAR YOU’VE BEEN THE PROBLEM??? .does that ever ever dawn on u and your dumb ass wife??? ... HUH ... MORON ...

Does Dorsey remind U of a combination of Opie Taylor and Barnie Fife or is it just me ... ...

Glad you watched it for yourself. Context is important when evaluating comments.

Dorsey? He looked like a guy trying to kiss Haslam's ass because he knows that he is probably next.

They'll be no right,it will be the same as always.
There is something going on that most of you don't get,allow me to enlighten you.
The Browns fan base.
People always say "the best fans in the world".Not hardly,what those people are doing is placating the largest group of self centered cry babies in the universe.
The Owner.
A thief,a criminal and a liar,but apparently a good businessman.
When the cry babies cry for a new FO,he fulfills their wish.Tickets and money roll in for the next season.
When the cry babies whine for a new coach,you know what happens.
The Browns franchise is worth twice what it was when Haslam bought it.That is success,winning football games means nothing.
At the end of the day,it doesn't matter who gets to be the next sacrificial lamb,because the babies are going to start crying in a year or two,and putting Benadryl in their bottles won't stop them.
PS
When your ready to vacate your island,give Haslam a call he would be interested in purchasing it.

When you are one, if not, the worst at something in History, probably the best thing is to shut up....

Tired of wasting energies on this clown...STFU...

And people still doubts between Sashi and this clown.

You can never know for sure.

You look at what is available to you and draw your own conclusion.

From what I can tell: from watching Hard Knocks and reading what is reported.

But when you read reports that are unverified by anonymous sources. You have to be skeptical.

Haley is a strong personality. Hue was forced to give up the offense. The teams offense was not performing under Haley. Hue was held accountable. He didn't like it. He wanted to take control or make some changes.

I have no idea if Dorsey wanted Hue gone. I doubt that. From everything I have ever read about Hue Jackson coming from the coaching community; he is a good coach. From Hard Knocks it sure looked like Hue and Dorsey were working well together.

The record of the Browns under the ownership of Haslam; he has to own. If Hue has to be accountable for the record under him. Then Haslam has to also be held accountable.

The record of this team under Haslam is living proof that the biggest problem with this team lies at the top. He keeps changing coaches and FO's and the results always seem to be pretty much the same.

Until he backs off and allows the football people to run the show, nothing will ever change. It's the structure at the top that's the problem.

I certainly don't question the talent that Mayfield possesses. I'm more concerned about the situation he's been placed in.


Pretty much what I was stating and actually thought was proving at least statistically.

I wish Hue 2 games ago took over the play calling, he thought about it but I think he was too nice and well look what happened, I think he had the green light for the rest of the season as he said this came as a surprise and he probably knew that Haslam was in his corner. But things were THAT BAD that he stated he was thinking of taking over the play calling...who does that unless the situation was pretty bad. But he did not and guess what - he lost his job as well as the play caller.

jmho

"I was really PEED AT THE CHICKEN CRAP REPORTERS ... none of them had the guts to ask the questions that needed to be asked .. the one bafoon tried to and was so nervous he couldn’t spit it out ... THEY WERE PATHETIC ... "
=========================================================

Man, I totally agree.

The obvious question to Haslam. When does continuity begin?

"Mr. Haslam you have talked about continuity since day one." In seven years as owner Gregg Williams is the fifth head coach. You stated that "we would see the real Hue this year". He didn't get this year to prove what he could do with this roster. The record under your ownership is
22-81-1. Who is accountable?

"Everything you have said today is replay of what you have said before." "What changes in organizational structure to you plan to implement?

As I stated before Dorsey was uncomfortable and appeared subservient.

The only guy who showed some guts was Gregg Williams. He knows this is a sham and he will be next to go when this season ends.

I really don't believe this to be the case. Hue knew what was coming. Everything i'm reading is saying he knew and continually changes his story. But like was said, people have certain reports they listen to and are going to believe what they want. It really doesn't matter because he is gone now. Moving on...

I don't believe people can have it both ways. If Hue was so "in demand" as many say he was, there is no way that he would take such an offer.

So Hue was either desperate for a HC jo to walk into such a stupid situation or the accusation is false.

Vacate the Isle? .. que the theme song from the Jeffersons and picture me with a big ole George Jefferson smile (that dude had the greatest cat ate the canary smile ever .... loved his smile .. *L*) ...

‘Movin on up” Dawg ...

Hue’s gone .. that stinks ..

The thief backed into Dorsey .. Dorsey has made this a VERY VERY ATRACTIVE job ... we should have the pick of the litter ...

*fingers crossed* we get lucky again ... thing is ... we have a much better shot at getting lucky than ever before ... the TALENTS here ... its young and raw and were still a few pegs short ... we have a TON OF CAP SPACE and were gonna have a top 15 maybe even top 10 pick this year with plenty of draft equity in he later rounds ...

We have to do this DESPITE THE THIEF ... we got a shot to do it IF Bake pans out and King John does 1/2 as good as he appears to have done this year and the new HC pans out ...

Whip just got his pilots license and is now knee deep into space shuttle captain training at NASA ....

Cap and DeepSouth and all the others have been fitted for dawg style space suits ...

BDU is taking care of things WAY WAY WAY across the pond ... *L* ...

THE TALENTS THE KEY ... we got it ... WE CAN DO THIS DESPITE THE THIEF ...

Thats my story and i’m Stickin to it ...

LETS GOOOOOOoooooooooo ...

Is all that supposed to be to that theme song?

We all have to have a story.

There is no other conclusion to be had.

Haslam is now in his seventh year as owner. What has he done to fundamentally change the results?

He keeps repeating the same mistakes.

The fans who buy the tickets, the coaches and players, all of the support people who work behind the scenes, all screaming for some wins. Something to be proud of.

I am not accusing Haslam for not trying. The problem is he will not look inward and recognize that in order to get the results; you have to make changes in your approach. All he has done is repeat mistakes.

I’ll tell u one thing ... if the latest rumor is true about Billicheck looking to get out of beantown after this year and a longing to go back to C-town and bring them the title we so deserve comes to fruition .... the shuttle manufacturers are gonna be working quadruple quadruple overtime to keep up with the demand ...

U think that oughta be enough to start the rumor or do u think i need to post it in one more thread to do the trick? ...

....

???

Who hired Dorsey?

What HC was the guy who got away.

I want to say Chud but then he should have a playoff win with another team already as a HC...I know he was a fan favorite but the guy has not had a HC offer since. Its been 5 years if he was the one who got away then where is the pudding?

I want Haslam to keep looking for that SUPER STAR HC. At least now with a QB there is a chance that we keep somebody and not lose the majority of the game.

But I'm confused cause wasn't it Dorsey that orchestrated these firings and it was Haslam who wanted continuity with Hue Jackson???

Did I get this wrong? I know I read it but was it Fake News?

???

I think you should start a fake Twitter account and post it there. Then EVERYONE would believe it! lol

Honestly tab when one reporter says something and then everyone just repeats it, it's hard to tell what the truth is anymore.

Who hired Dorsey? ..

The guy with this resume ...

- his first hire was Joe Banner ... fresh of losing a power struggle in Phili cause he knew NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL ...

- he then hired his 1st HC in Chud
- he then hired his 1st GM in DUMBardi


- After year 1 he fires Chud on the advice of his lawyer and DUMBardi cause ... get this .. HE WAS INCOMPETENT ...

- he finds out during the interviewing process (his 2nd in as many years as owner) when a guy that interviewed the year before accepts an interview to tell the dude your sticking up for that HIS TWO STOOGES aren’t qualified to be scouts much less run a football team and WOULD NEVER WORK FOR THE MORONS ....

So then he forces the stooges ...

- then he goes ahead and hires his 2nd HC ...
- then he hires his GM ...

U SEE A PATTERN OF STUPIDITY HERE AT ALL IN THE ORDER OF THESE HIRES ...

I’m tired ... my points made ... not gonna run through the history ... just gonna throw out the MOST EMBERASSING things ..

- Manziel
- Gordon
-Farmer
-tweets
-Shanny
-Gordon
-sashi
-AJ trade
-hue leaks to press
-Gordon
-3 - 13
- 1 - 15
- 0 - 16
- Gordon
-public feud #2

Yup .... tabber ... hes a real gem of an owner and were SO LUCKY to have him ... ..

Here’s to hoping he backs into a HC like he did King John ..

Pit, he let the “football guy” make the call and he fired hue and Haley. I assume you are ok with those firings since the “football guy” made the call.
serious question pit. Haslem hires hue. Was that a bad hire??? Did you oppose it at the time?? Haslem hired farmer. Did you think that was a bad hire at the time? I think haslem hired chud. Do you think that was a bad hire?

There is little point in arguing haslem I guess, because no one will change their mind. But I just do not believe haslem is an idiot who does not want the browns to be a winner!

There's a difference between wanting your team to win and knowing how to make that happen.

Haslam has never had to build a product. He was furnished diesel fuel, which was the product and his job was to market it. That's not how it works in the NFL.

You seem to indicate that you feel how some message board posters feel about the hirings Haslam has made somehow have some meaning. Well they actually don't. As Browns fans we all tend to lean in the direction of hope until that hope has been dashed.

The results dictate that Haslam thought they were bad hires because he has fired them all.

yeah when it is about our Browns sadly I believe it if written.

I dont think any of them were bad hires .. banner/dumbardi weren’t dumb hires either .. they went well beyond dumb ... then u have the Sashi hire ... witch makes the Banner/Dumbardi hires look BRILLIANT that one was so bad ...

Do u think the ORDER IN WITCH they were hired was intelligent?

Do u think the org. Structure he set up coupled with the fact he did things backwords the first to times FACILITATED the different agendas and led to the distrust and different agendas and dysfunction that led to different factions and just a rotten environment with those hires? ...

did those factors lead to and/or hasten the firings?

Beacause he fired sashi first this time and has Dorsey in place .... IF he lets Dorsey hire his people .. his org. Structure won’t matter near as much ... the trust WILL BE BUILT IN ... THERE CONNECTED ....

What you seem to wish to forget or rewrite history with. Is that he hired BANNER PERIOD...then he had to be side tracked with the Pilot mess and left the Browns pretty much in the hands of Banner.

When he was back he ended up breaking that up entirely. From Chud to Lombardi to a eventually a surprised Banner who actually thought he owned the team.

Since then I agree just not the right guy in the right place, I though Hue would be different cause for the first time he was actually our FIRST CHOICE and other teams were looking for him to be their HC I don't know who but heard it a lot.

Anyways all the others before him were 2nd 3rd or even more as in our choice as we were turned down a lot!

??? Where do you stand on Shanny? guy who got away? or stayed too long who played us for a better job. He's HC now and well he can beat the Raiders.

jmho

I could care less about PILOT ... he’s been the WORST OWNER IN THE HOSTORY OF SPORTS up til this point ...

How’s that for history? ... u care to DISCUSS THAT HISTORY ....

Or would u prefer to discuss THIS HOSTORY ....

- 3 - 13
- 1 - 15
- 0 - 16

Let me know witch HISTORY you’d like to discuss .... ....

I think Shanny is the best offensive mind in football ... i think last night was just a glimpse of that ... the faiders didn’t have any problems at the “hotel California” cause they never checked in ..

I mentioned him cause he couldn’t get out of here fast enough casue of al the dysfunction and the atmosphere that your boy the thief created if thats what u mean ...

He did hire Dorsey. And I give him credit for it.

However, this is my understanding of how it went down. But nobody knows for sure:

"Owner Jimmy Haslam was conflicted over blowing up another coach mid-season. Late last night he was leaning toward staying course. But Haslam spoke to GM John Dorsey, who said the Hue/Haley dynamic couldn’t continue. Some decision had to be made for the team."

From that Haslam decided to get rid of both.

actually pit, if you look back at what I wrote you will find any mention of what fans on a message board think. To me if multiple nfl teams would like to hire someone that suggests he might be a good hire. Still not sure if you thought they were bad hires. Sometimes good hires do not work out. Yesterday I was playing golf and I hit a beautiful shot right on line with the flag. Bounced once short of the green and should have rolled right up to the hole. But it hit a sprinkler head bounced 30 feet to the right and ended up in some rough. It was a great shot with a bad outcome.
So it can be with a hire. Seems like a good choice but it doesn’t work out. What I find annoying are the people who praised the hiring of hue three years ago and now say haslem is an idiot who cannot make good hires.

Haslam obviously felt the same way because he fired Hue. See, once again you're comparing what some "message board posters thought" at the time and I'm talking about the actual results. Hue lasted two and a half seasons and Haslam fired him. He obviously didn't do the job Haslam hired him to do.

Now you can go back three years ago and take into account what message board posters thought about it at the time or you can look at the results.

The results are yet another failed HC hire. That's not according to me, that's according to Haslam.

On point...no need for anything else to be said....but i will say one thing. If the team wants to hire a President, then have it be Dorsey (with Wolf as GM) or no one. I don't want another Alec Scheiner running around thinking he knows what he's doing or creating another conflict with Dorsey

So hue gets a pass for 1-31 because the team had no talent, but Haslam doesn't get a pass because the team had no talent?

I am not sticking up for haslam either, he is absolutely responsible for hiring horrible people and has done so.

But I will say he at least knows when its not gonna work and doesn't want to stick with 1-31.

He hired the people that has led us to our entire record since he bought this team. You can't go halfway up the hierarchy with accountability and stop there.

What's this all about?

Now that Dorsey has control of hiring the next HC (Yes he will) we're going to need to invest in an Airbus A380 for the Isle transportation.

Next year Diam has bigger aspirations. Leaving the isle. To go where no one has gone before...

After our recent moves that demonstrated that Jimmy Haslam hasn't learned a damn thing, the isle will become an island where people are exiled.

The Exile Isle has a catchy ring to it.