Tell me what you see. Educate the noob.
From my angle, I do not see any glaring weaknesses. If I were calling the shots, my top priorities would be:
1) Game-changing LB or DT.
2) Field-stretching wide-out.
3) Depth at OL.
4) Depth at RB.
It would not surprise me if Baker uses his sway to convince the Browns to draft Marquise Brown, especially if Brown slips to the second round.
Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the existing gaps and how you see the team addressing them.
When you let a QB "use his sway" in your draft process, you just messed up.
Dorsey will run this draft and it will be BPA.
The thing with this draft is we will be drafting at #17. It's true that a DT, DE or LB would be the preference and probably the positions that would best serve the team, but how far will those positions be depleted? There are some in those positions that are rated very highly.
So will the 4th rated DT be as good as the 2nd rated CB? Will the 3rd rated LB be as good as the #1 rated WR?
See, the unknowns when you draft at #17 make this all a huge guessing game. There will be runs on positions and we don't know where the board wil be talent heavy or depleted until we get there.
I look for the positions you mentioned to be addressed in the FA market. Maybe not top money signings but Dorsey seems to have a knack for finding those diamonds in the rough. Then he'll let the draft come to us.
Dorsey will run this draft and it will be BPA.
We have the luxury of doing this or trading up if there is someone he really considers a difference maker.
I could have phrased the "sway" language a little better. My point is that if Brown slips into the second round, he will be a big-time value with whom Baker already has rapport.
Who do you see being the most likely additions in the FA market?
Get to .500 and then go from there.
If Baker Mayfield is involved whatsoever in who we draft, we are in bad shape.
Through free agency or the draft, we HAVE to shore up our run defense. A DT or TWO.
Corner is also a concern.
The best teams in the league, the teams still in the playoffs all have elite offenses. We need more on offense, Leveon Bell is not nearly as much of a stretch and we might think. 4 year, huge money in the first 2 seasons. I could see it.
More on offense. Callaway is limited, so is Higgins, so is Jarvis. Having a game changing receiver is probably a pipe dream, but we need to figure that out. Tyrelle Williams, John Brown are free agents but meh, those guys aren’t big upgrades.
We need to generally be a more physical football team. Our offense (especially our guards) really started wearing out defenses at the end of the season. If you saw the Pats this past weekend, you saw a team (LA) staying in base dime, getting a mudhole stomped in them with a fullback and a TE who can block. Yes, offense is the MOST important thing, but being physical is a close second. Look at Philly, they beat the Bears and punch New Orleans in the mouth at home. The have Flethcer Cox, Haloti Ngata AND Michael Bennet (that’s just the DT’s)! We aren’t that tough, not even close especially up the middle on defense.
Who do you see being the most likely additions in the FA market?
For me it's far too early to say about FA signings. Teams still have the opportunity to tag and sign players. So it will be a while before we actually know who will be available and what we'll have to give up or pay for players. A lot of people like to speculate about it though. I just don't happen to be one of them until I actually know who's available.
I look at guys like Robinson and Perriman to see that Dorsey has a very good knack for finding players who pay dividends without a lot of investment.
It's hard to say about needs for particular positions because we don't know who will be available and when.
As a general comment though: the players already here have to continue to grow and get better. This is on the players and coaches alike.
One of the more frustrating things from last off-season and even earlier in the regular season was this idea that the coach isn't responsible for how the players perform on the field. They're just there to schedule practice times and be a face for the media. That's a viewpoint I have a hard time understanding.
Around the middle of the season, we saw how much even competent coaching can make in a fairly short amount of time. In a matter of two weeks, pass protection improved. Receivers were running better routes and making catches they never were before. Baker was getting the ball out more quickly. I believe Williams and Kitchens were both a big part of this, though those examples were from the offensive side of the ball so obviously FK did a great job there.
The players were the same, so what changed? The coaching! Players were being held to a higher standard. They actually had to perform in practice. The practices themselves were more productive, with players more involved and active. One of the more amazing comments was one of the players commenting how we actually did things like practice the two minute drill. Imagine that, a professional football team practicing the two minute drill. What kind of genius would think to install something so important and then not actually practice it?
There was also an element of players coming together, having each others' backs, being more confident, etc. You can divvy up the credit for that between the players and leadership however you want. All I'm saying is that it matters. You want to avoid the drama, putting one player on a pedestal, the toxic infighting, and everything of the sort. Those are things that need to be avoided!
When you let a QB "use his sway" in your draft process, you just messed up.
Dorsey will run this draft and it will be BPA.
The thing with this draft is we will be drafting at #17. It's true that a DT, DE or LB would be the preference and probably the positions that would best serve the team, but how far will those positions be depleted? There are some in those positions that are rated very highly.
So will the 4th rated DT be as good as the 2nd rated CB? Will the 3rd rated LB be as good as the #1 rated WR?
See, the unknowns when you draft at #17 make this all a huge guessing game. There will be runs on positions and we don't know where the board wil be talent heavy or depleted until we get there.
I look for the positions you mentioned to be addressed in the FA market. Maybe not top money signings but Dorsey seems to have a knack for finding those diamonds in the rough. Then he'll let the draft come to us.
All the more reason why player development is so important. It's one thing to pick guys like Garrett, Mayfield, and Ward at picks #1, #1, and #4. Great picks but talents like that won't be available to us in the future, barring some really bad play or really great luck. We'll have to find the talent and coach them up.
Drafting 17th every round isn't so bad. Make the playoffs and we're in the 20s... get to where we really want to be and we'll be in the 30s.
That's a good start.
Or use the Patriots model. Get a first round bye, but play hard through week 17. Rest up and prepare well on the week off. Win a home playoff game and you're in the AFC Championship game.
Next steps to a Championship...
Execute.
Next steps to a Championship...
Execute Bill Belichick and Tom Brady.
Fixed it.
Great response Pit.
100% agreement.
If Baker Mayfield is involved whatsoever in who we draft, we are in bad shape.
Through free agency or the draft, we HAVE to shore up our run defense. A DT or TWO.
Corner is also a concern.
The best teams in the league, the teams still in the playoffs all have elite offenses. We need more on offense, Leveon Bell is not nearly as much of a stretch and we might think. 4 year, huge money in the first 2 seasons. I could see it.
More on offense. Callaway is limited, so is Higgins, so is Jarvis. Having a game changing receiver is probably a pipe dream, but we need to figure that out. Tyrelle Williams, John Brown are free agents but meh, those guys aren’t big upgrades.
We need to generally be a more physical football team. Our offense (especially our guards) really started wearing out defenses at the end of the season. If you saw the Pats this past weekend, you saw a team (LA) staying in base dime, getting a mudhole stomped in them with a fullback and a TE who can block. Yes, offense is the MOST important thing, but being physical is a close second. Look at Philly, they beat the Bears and punch New Orleans in the mouth at home. The have Flethcer Cox, Haloti Ngata AND Michael Bennet (that’s just the DT’s)! We aren’t that tough, not even close especially up the middle on defense.
I'll disagree with you on Baker. I don't think he should have undue influence on picks, but I think the QB should have some input. Even if it's just, "Baker, would you rather have A or B?"
I think your run defense comment ties in more with needing to be more physical, which I agree with, than needing 2 DTs. I think our LBs need to take on more blocks instead of trying to jump around them. Watching some Patriots clips it really stood out how their LBs "did their job" and compressed Gordon's space by engaging blockers instead of jumping outside and leaving creases. If we go DT early, I hope it's for interior pressure more than run stuffing. Our LBs seem to be more of the problem in the running game. I think the guys we have playing more physical would address the issue some.
I'm not sure how much of our lack of physicality goes back to the oft shown Hard Knocks clip where Haley and Freddie comment on players needing toughened up/Hue "babying" them.
We need to find the right balance of being physical and staying healthy. If anything, I'd err on the side of being too physical, though. Hopefully, we can add some depth to withstand any injuries that would happen.
I would like to add another DB or two. I'd like someone with a bit more size than Ward to play across from him. Oruwariye is who I have my eye on at the moment. A backup FS to develop behind Randall would probably help, too.
If we re-sign Perriman, I don't think we need another WR high. I'd probably just take a Height/Weight/Speed guy later to develop behind them. If someone falls and is too good to pass up, I wouldn't be overly upset. Watching KC, you realize you can't really have too much speed on the field, and Marquise Brown fits that bill.
When you let a QB "use his sway" in your draft process, you just messed up.
Dorsey will run this draft and it will be BPA.
The thing with this draft is we will be drafting at #17. It's true that a DT, DE or LB would be the preference and probably the positions that would best serve the team, but how far will those positions be depleted? There are some in those positions that are rated very highly.
So will the 4th rated DT be as good as the 2nd rated CB? Will the 3rd rated LB be as good as the #1 rated WR?
See, the unknowns when you draft at #17 make this all a huge guessing game. There will be runs on positions and we don't know where the board wil be talent heavy or depleted until we get there.
I look for the positions you mentioned to be addressed in the FA market. Maybe not top money signings but Dorsey seems to have a knack for finding those diamonds in the rough. Then he'll let the draft come to us.
I agree. If you start to let players influence your draft, you need to resign.
I can understand a GM asking input on various coaches, that's different, but college players?
Nope, you are a player. Just stay in your lane.
I think they should take advantage of the insider information that Baker has about the Oklahoma players coming out. Hey Baker tell us about this guy. What's his personality like? How hard of a worker is he? Etc
I think we should do that with all our players who played with guys in the draft.
Has for asking who we should draft? Heck no
Going from this current situation?
Step 1, Keep Gregg Williams Defense.
Step 2, Keep all of your young coaches, which are doing well, together, keep them working together, growing together, and on the same page.
Step 3, keep the team together, personel wise, nucleus wise, Don't blow things up, but strengthen the Core, adding a couple key ingredients, (The roster is young, on the whole), so keep them together.
Step 4. get lucky, and stay healthy, but you can't really control that
Step 5, learn. Study what the winners do, and learn from it.
--------
I think the Browns, have taken a step back, letting Williams go,
But it's better to move forward not focus on the past.
------
I'm hoping for another game changing tight end, and another game changing Rb in the Kamara/Sproles type role.
and a game changing DB/Safety, always need more of those.
It would not surprise me if Baker uses his sway to convince the Browns to draft
You must not be a Cavs, Heat, or Lakers NBA fan...
Giving the keys to the kingdom to a player is nothing but a recipe for disaster.
Baker is good, and he should stick to chucking the rock. No reason he needs to get consulted in players getting drafted. We don't need another LeBron situation.
Do you let Baker run your draft? NO. BUT - if your FQB tells you he needs better pass protection, or receivers who can get open and can catch, and you do nothing, then you will fairly soon be looking to find a NEW FQB.
You do not have to give him everything he asks for but you do need to keep him happy.
I think the GM and coaches know what we need. They don't need the QB or player to tell them before they open their eyes to a weakness.
I think the GM and scouting department know more about the college players then does a player.
Next Steps To A Championship?
Time.
In 2019 the Browns will have a rookie head coach, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, and a new special teams coach.
In 2019 the Browns will still be one of the youngest teams in the NFL and they will be running new or significantly modified playbooks.
In 2019 the Browns will be filling a few major gaps on the roster and will continue adding critical depth to the back end of the roster.
In 2019 the Browns' opponents will have plenty of tape on Baker Mayfield and will take game planning against the Browns more seriously than in the past.
2019 is going to be another "two steps forward, one step back" sort of year. Expect the Browns to fully bloom in 2020 and 2021.
The journey will be great fun.
I think Media and fans put a lot into Baker swaying the coaching process the personnel process.
If John Dorsey doesn't know better than a rookie QB on what is needed then we are in trouble.
Btw his biggest Asset was Mark Andrews TE if he didn't sway us to go get him then he isn't doing any swaying.
Are we going to BUILD this Offense around Baker...you're dang tooting...better with football 4 letter words...lol 
Calloway right now is going to grow into a bigger stronger Marquise Brown but keep in mind I wanted us to go for him just cause he is a good talent thinking because of his size he would be a 3rd round pick...NOT SO when I heard mid first round..forget about it. You are not going to win Championships if you utilize a top 17 pick on a 150 lb player.
jmho
What we need are Football players that will give us everything that they got. I don't care about the position. If we get a KICK BUTT HOF FS I hope we go get him if he falls into our lap. Even though we got Randall and its not a NEED.
Just using that as an example. We are in True, BPA and before you say so if so and so QB is available am I saying to take him...First off QB is NEVER the BPA they just become the pick for you cause its so so important to get one.
We got one, QB falls off our Personnel map until maybe the 6th round or so.
if your FQB tells you he needs better pass protection, or receivers who can get open and can catch
If those things are needed, then the GM and coaches will know. The FQB won't be the only one who notices.
if your FQB tells you he needs better pass protection, or receivers who can get open and can catch
If those things are needed, then the GM and coaches will know. The FQB won't be the only one who notices.
Honestly, for the first time in maybe forever, we have a management team headed by Dorsey that appears to know what he's seeing on the field, knows the weaknesses, knows the strengths and understands how to address team needs.
I just get the feeling (not the first time I've had it either, but this feels different) that this group of leaders on and off the field is special.
I'm gonna just sit back (as if I have a choice) and enjoy the ride with Dorsey and company. Not going to try to second guess them.
Me too. And Dorsey has produced as have many of his player decisions. Hard to argue with success like we had post-Huey last season.
I trust him to produce and make good judgments. Let's play soon. Fun being a fan after shutting up some critics.
I think areas for me that are cause for concern and worthy to discuss at FA/draft:
LB (do we keep Collins? Gregg always fought his corner).
depth at CB (Ward was hurt and missed a few, but we also need another lockdown on the other side. Carrie shined and rose to the challenge, and Mitchell was a nice surprise before his injury. Gaines too was injured a lot. Depth is essential and a key add would be good. Same at Safety. Randall was superb, but we all worried when we saw him lying on the field at times.
TE (Njoku is developing nicely, but is young and still rough around the edges. I do think he can be a star and year 3 is the year he proves it. Fells was a really nice surprise, Charles is a good blocker. DeValve, imo, needs to be cut. He barely plays and when he does he's virtually nonexistent).
WR (Higgins is our most improved WR from the 2016 draft class and he has come a LONG way. Lovin' Callaway's ability & potential, Perriman was a REALLY nice surprise and Landry came as advertised. I still think we need to keep our eyes open for another receiver who could become available in FA or draft)
OL (Once Robinson came in we saw huge improvement. Why was Harrison even starting? IS Robinson the guy moving forward? Do we have the depth with Harrison, Corbett etc.?
depth at DT (another run stuffer in the middle and somebody who can cause problems for opposing centers & guards. We were fortunate that Obi didn't miss games, but he wasn't 100% in the final few. I like Coley, but we could use depth in this area.).
One of the more frustrating things from last off-season and even earlier in the regular season was this idea that the coach isn't responsible for how the players perform on the field. They're just there to schedule practice times and be a face for the media. That's a viewpoint I have a hard time understanding.
Are you making things up again? Who said that? I never read that in the media. Do you have a link? Who said anything even close to that on this board?
I know the answers. Don't bother. I'm just calling out your "nonsense."
I don't see any glaring weaknesses either and I don't disagree with your top 4 priorities.. though I might put another CB ahead of a field stretching WR.
The Browns are in the position of going BPA and fortunately our biggest need is defensive front 7 and this draft is LOADED in that area.
I would like to see the depth needs at RB and OL addressed in FA and draft the game changers rather than overpay for them in FA... then again if a guy like Khalil Mack REALLY wants to come here, who am I to argue with that.
j/c:
1. Continue to build the offense around Baker's strenghts.
2. Identify talent on this roster worth re-signing to extensions.
3. Limit FA signings but target one or two starters, if necessary. Focus on depth at key positions.
4. Continue to draft well.
Easy peasy.
j/c:
1. Continue to build the offense around Baker's strenghts.
2. Identify talent on this roster worth re-signing to extensions.
3. Limit FA signings but target one or two starters, if necessary. Focus on depth at key positions.
4. Continue to draft well.
Easy peasy.
You forgot...
5. Limit injuries.
j/c:
1. Continue to build the offense around Baker's strenghts.
2. Identify talent on this roster worth re-signing to extensions.
3. Limit FA signings but target one or two starters, if necessary. Focus on depth at key positions.
4. Continue to draft well.
Easy peasy.
You forgot...
5. Limit injuries.
Ah, yes. Particularly with Mayfield and Garrett.
Next Steps To A Championship?
Time.
In 2019 the Browns will have a rookie head coach, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, and a new special teams coach.
In 2019 the Browns will still be one of the youngest teams in the NFL and they will be running new or significantly modified playbooks.
In 2019 the Browns will be filling a few major gaps on the roster and will continue adding critical depth to the back end of the roster.
In 2019 the Browns' opponents will have plenty of tape on Baker Mayfield and will take game planning against the Browns more seriously than in the past.
2019 is going to be another "two steps forward, one step back" sort of year. Expect the Browns to fully bloom in 2020 and 2021.
The journey will be great fun.
This is a great post (imo), and deserves to be restated as it is, without any changes or tweaks. I agree with the whole thing, but I agree most with the "2 steps forward, one step back" line. Very true.
I think our first priority is keeping guys we want to keep. For me, that's Robinson and any other Olinemen who's contracts are up. I'm still a believer in Harrison, but you can't let someone that stepped in and performed like Robinson did walk. Can't happen.
Any WRs that spent significant time on the field should be offered a decent contract. I don't think we should break the bank for any one guy in our WR corps, but we should try to keep them here. I believe we risk losing Perriman and Higgins. I would want to keep both, but not for stupid money.
I think we need to keep Kirksey. I'm on board with letting Collins go as long as we have a believable replacement in place (high draft pick or FA).
I think we need to get some depth at corner. It seemed to fall apart too quickly last season when we had a guy go down. Another BBC-type caliber guy. I'm not sure that guy is on the roster right now. One or both of Gaines and Carrie can go as long as we have their replacements in place.
I wouldn't mind going big on a true #1 WR. I think we're in a place where we can do that. I also wouldn't mind going older FA, to give Calloway someone to improve against and ultimately beat out and replace as he rounds into form. I don't think Perriman is that guy, though.... I think he can be a really really good complementary WR.
Find a true WR 1
Find more front 7 playmakers
2019 is going to be another "two steps forward, one step back" sort of year. Expect the Browns to fully bloom in 2020 and 2021.
So what you are saying is that we should be really hitting our stride right as the NFL and the NFLPA reach an impasse in the CBA renewal and shut the league down for a year.... AWESOME!!!!!!
[quote=AaigSuckinDawg]Next Steps To A Championship?
Time.
In 2019 the Browns will have a rookie head coach, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, and a new special teams coach.
In 2019 the Browns will still be one of the youngest teams in the NFL and they will be running new or significantly modified playbooks.
In 2019 the Browns will be filling a few major gaps on the roster and will continue adding critical depth to the back end of the roster.
In 2019 the Browns' opponents will have plenty of tape on Baker Mayfield and will take game planning against the Browns more seriously than in the past.
2019 is going to be another "two steps forward, one step back" sort of year. Expect the Browns to fully bloom in 2020 and 2021.
The journey will be great fun.
I agree with your assessment. This may be unpopular but I don't see us winning double digit games next year for all the reasons you mentioned. Even with improvements to the roster, which I expect I see a ceiling of 8 or 9 wins. JMO
The next step is to start beating teams who are better than .500. Once they start doing that everything else will take care of itself. Consistently beating teams with winning records is what it takes.
Next Steps To A Championship?
Time.
In 2019 the Browns will have a rookie head coach, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, and a new special teams coach.
In 2019 the Browns will still be one of the youngest teams in the NFL and they will be running new or significantly modified playbooks.
In 2019 the Browns will be filling a few major gaps on the roster and will continue adding critical depth to the back end of the roster.
In 2019 the Browns' opponents will have plenty of tape on Baker Mayfield and will take game planning against the Browns more seriously than in the past.
2019 is going to be another "two steps forward, one step back" sort of year. Expect the Browns to fully bloom in 2020 and 2021.
The journey will be great fun.
This is a great post (imo), and deserves to be restated as it is, without any changes or tweaks. I agree with the whole thing, but I agree most with the "2 steps forward, one step back" line. Very true.
I think our first priority is keeping guys we want to keep. For me, that's Robinson and any other Olinemen who's contracts are up. I'm still a believer in Harrison, but you can't let someone that stepped in and performed like Robinson did walk. Can't happen.
Any WRs that spent significant time on the field should be offered a decent contract. I don't think we should break the bank for any one guy in our WR corps, but we should try to keep them here. I believe we risk losing Perriman and Higgins. I would want to keep both, but not for stupid money.
I think we need to keep Kirksey. I'm on board with letting Collins go as long as we have a believable replacement in place (high draft pick or FA).
I think we need to get some depth at corner. It seemed to fall apart too quickly last season when we had a guy go down. Another BBC-type caliber guy. I'm not sure that guy is on the roster right now. One or both of Gaines and Carrie can go as long as we have their replacements in place.
I wouldn't mind going big on a true #1 WR. I think we're in a place where we can do that. I also wouldn't mind going older FA, to give Calloway someone to improve against and ultimately beat out and replace as he rounds into form. I don't think Perriman is that guy, though.... I think he can be a really really good complementary WR.
No offense to ya'll...
But I don't understand the pessimism, I guess. Do some people actually convince themselves things aren't going to be great to avoid disappointment?
Anything short of hoisting the Lombardi trophy should be considered a failure for this franchise and that's being realistic. I would fully expect 11-13 or more wins next year.
Rookie head coaches make the playoffs all the time. I just don't get it.
just clicking
I'm just going to leave this here. I know a lot of people want to talk about draft needs, positions to shore up. Need upgrades at DT, a second corner to cover the #2s (and give some insurance in case Ward is unavailable), maybe a receiver and an offensive tackle, and so on.
There will be plenty of time to discuss all this, and even a separate forum for that matter.
One thing that gets overlooked sometimes is the overall culture of the team. Guys working hard, trying to improve, doing things for the team and not individual stats, bettering themselves because they have pride in what they do, or want to fight for the guys beside them, or whatever makes them tick.
What Nick Foles said here really resonated with me.
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...-a-strong-team/Nick Foles: Relationships are what make a strong team
Posted by Josh Alper on January 15, 2019, 10:21 AM EST
After Eagles wide receiver Alshon Jeffery had a pass go through his hands for what turned out to be a game-sealing interception for the Saints, quarterback Nick Foles could be seen talking to the distraught receiver on the sideline.
After the game, Foles said he told Jeffery “I love you, let’s keep going” and went on to discuss the importance of being able to console a teammate in that situation. Foles said he will “always play this game to develop relationships because that’s what makes a strong team” and expanded on the importance of those relationships on Monday while talking about the role quarterbacks play as a leader.
“Teams are going to build around the quarterback but as a quarterback, talking to the defense, getting to know your offense, getting to know special teams, talking to guys during the game, not making it about you, that’s something that’s so important, that’s something that resonates,” Foles said, via Mike Garafolo of NFL Media. “That’s something that, when we’re down, the defense always knows when we get the ball back, ‘Hey, we’re going to go down and score.’ … The Chicago game, when we had the ball, the defense knew we were going to go down and score. That’s the belief this team has.”
“The quarterback is a piece of that puzzle and you create that with confidence in the locker room and then letting guys know genuinely who you are. When guys know genuinely who you are and you’re the same person all the time, it gives them a sense of calm and a sense of peace where you can go out there and just play ball.”
Foles’ abilities as both a quarterback and a leader have been on display over the last two seasons and they make his landing spot for the 2019 season one of the most anticipated developments of the offseason.
That's a guy who has his teammates' backs. That's important.. I see the same thing in Baker Mayfield. We saw how the team rallied together in the second half of the season.
Keep in mind the Eagles won the Super Bowl last season, playing the whole playoffs with their backup QB, Nick Foles. That's extremely impressive in a QB driven league. Even this year, they rallied at the end of the regular season, won in Chicago in the Wild Card round, and almost won in New Orleans as well.
You learn a lot about how successful teams handle themselves.. this is one of those times.
Of course, adding a Fletcher Cox at defensive tackle wouldn't hurt either. That isn't lost on me. There are different ways to approach the idea of "Next Steps to a Championship".
j/c:
I think that teams like the Rams, Eagles, Bears, and to a lesser extent--Chiefs have set the precedent of where the smart teams are heading. You take advantage of your rookie QBs first contract and get as many pieces as you can to put around him.
It's very hard to bring in and/or keep players once your qb starts making big money. Guys who have never won anything are making huge money. Stafford, Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. Others like Rodgers and Ryan have cash-strapped their teams.
Let's look at some of the guys the Rams have brought in since they drafted Goff. I am doing this off the top of my head, but they have acquired or given new contracts to guys like Whitworth, Talib, Peters, Cook, Woods, Suj. Sullivan, Sheilds, Easley, Fowler, etc.
I think they have also have given big contracts to Gurley and Donald.
I expect Dorsey to make another big splash in regards to acquiring more talent this off-season.
No offense to ya'll...
But I don't understand the pessimism, I guess. Do some people actually convince themselves things aren't going to be great to avoid disappointment?
Anything short of hoisting the Lombardi trophy should be considered a failure for this franchise and that's being realistic. I would fully expect 11-13 or more wins next year.
Rookie head coaches make the playoffs all the time. I just don't get it.
I agree to an extent. I think playoffs should be an expectation ... and Div Title should be a reasonable expectation too barring injuries and chronic bad luck.
- Rookie Head Coach Kitchens HAS to be better than the dysfunction of Hue/Haley .... so a positive.
- We won 7 games while losing 2 or 3 games to the refs and incredibly bad luck. . . . we can expect to add a game at least, maybe two.
- We had Tyrod start 2 games last year and I think we all agree Baker is far above what Tyrod brought to the table. As much as I love the individual and his attitude and leadership - Tyrod is a long way behind even Rookie Baker.
- The youth that was mentioned in the original post ... is all going to be a year older and have played together. I think that's a huge positive not a negative.
- It may all come down to Baker ... I see no reason not to expect improvement. PFF had him ranked as the 9th best QB in the NFL in his rookie season. I expect him to stay there or improve some.
YES -- FO change brings some challenges and obstacles that need to be overcome. But please lets not start using it as an excuse. The changes can't take us backwards after what we went through in 2018.
So with that said - what I don't agree with is any team "expecting" to win the Superbowl which requires a good amount of good luck no matter how good your team is through 17 weeks of regular season football.
I think they should take advantage of the insider information that Baker has about the Oklahoma players coming out. Hey Baker tell us about this guy. What's his personality like? How hard of a worker is he? Etc
I think we should do that with all our players who played with guys in the draft.
Has for asking who we should draft? Heck no
Yep - you said this far better than I did. This is what I had in mind.
Next Steps To A Championship?
Time.
In 2019 the Browns will have a rookie head coach, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, and a new special teams coach.
In 2019 the Browns will still be one of the youngest teams in the NFL and they will be running new or significantly modified playbooks.
In 2019 the Browns will be filling a few major gaps on the roster and will continue adding critical depth to the back end of the roster.
In 2019 the Browns' opponents will have plenty of tape on Baker Mayfield and will take game planning against the Browns more seriously than in the past.
2019 is going to be another "two steps forward, one step back" sort of year. Expect the Browns to fully bloom in 2020 and 2021.
The journey will be great fun.
This is a great post (imo), and deserves to be restated as it is, without any changes or tweaks. I agree with the whole thing, but I agree most with the "2 steps forward, one step back" line. Very true.
I think our first priority is keeping guys we want to keep. For me, that's Robinson and any other Olinemen who's contracts are up. I'm still a believer in Harrison, but you can't let someone that stepped in and performed like Robinson did walk. Can't happen.
Any WRs that spent significant time on the field should be offered a decent contract. I don't think we should break the bank for any one guy in our WR corps, but we should try to keep them here. I believe we risk losing Perriman and Higgins. I would want to keep both, but not for stupid money.
I think we need to keep Kirksey. I'm on board with letting Collins go as long as we have a believable replacement in place (high draft pick or FA).
I think we need to get some depth at corner. It seemed to fall apart too quickly last season when we had a guy go down. Another BBC-type caliber guy. I'm not sure that guy is on the roster right now. One or both of Gaines and Carrie can go as long as we have their replacements in place.
I wouldn't mind going big on a true #1 WR. I think we're in a place where we can do that. I also wouldn't mind going older FA, to give Calloway someone to improve against and ultimately beat out and replace as he rounds into form. I don't think Perriman is that guy, though.... I think he can be a really really good complementary WR.
No offense to ya'll...
But I don't understand the pessimism, I guess. Do some people actually convince themselves things aren't going to be great to avoid disappointment?
Anything short of hoisting the Lombardi trophy should be considered a failure for this franchise and that's being realistic. I would fully expect 11-13 or more wins next year.
Rookie head coaches make the playoffs all the time. I just don't get it.
100% THIS!!!
1998 Sooners were complete duds and hadn't made a bowl in 5 years.
1999, Stoops' first year, finished 8-5 or something like that. Everyone know good times were in store.
2000. National Championship. And perennial contenders ever since.
The team attitude and culture and discipline was the main thing that needed to change.
Browns have that happening.
It is now safe to start thinking big about next season and every season thereafter!
Regarding the Next Step to a Championship this is important:
https://www.draftace.com/2019/01/14/aggressive-approach-defines-todd-monkens-offense/
The article points out with facts what Monken and Freddie will be working on and why it is important.
Interesting.
Step 1: re-sign our guys that were contributors
Step 2: we need to get bigger, better, faster at LB, DT, CB, TE, WRStep Step 3: we need to begin building more depth
Step 4: you need some luck, and you have to take care of the things you can control
I think that teams like the Rams, Eagles, Bears, and to a lesser extent--Chiefs have set the precedent of where the smart teams are heading. You take advantage of your rookie QBs first contract and get as many pieces as you can to put around him.
This is a recent development in team-building strategy, and would not be possible were it not for the latest CBA. Rookie salary cap makes this possible... and I consider it an improvement for the league.
.02
j/c:
I think that teams like the Rams, Eagles, Bears, and to a lesser extent--Chiefs have set the precedent of where the smart teams are heading. You take advantage of your rookie QBs first contract and get as many pieces as you can to put around him.
It's very hard to bring in and/or keep players once your qb starts making big money. Guys who have never won anything are making huge money. Stafford, Cousins, Jimmy G, etc. Others like Rodgers and Ryan have cash-strapped their teams.
Let's look at some of the guys the Rams have brought in since they drafted Goff. I am doing this off the top of my head, but they have acquired or given new contracts to guys like Whitworth, Talib, Peters, Cook, Woods, Suj. Sullivan, Sheilds, Easley, Fowler, etc.
I think they have also have given big contracts to Gurley and Donald.
I expect Dorsey to make another big splash in regards to acquiring more talent this off-season.
Counter that with teams with Brees, Brady, Rothschild, Flacco, Rogers, Wilson, Peyton.
QBs with huge contracts and Lombardi Raisers.
We COULD LOAD UP for 3 years. Be interesting to see what KING DORSEY & "IF YOU DON'T WEAR BROWN AND ORANGE, YOU DON'T MATTER" Kitchens do.
No offense to ya'll...
But I don't understand the pessimism, I guess. Do some people actually convince themselves things aren't going to be great to avoid disappointment?
Anything short of hoisting the Lombardi trophy should be considered a failure for this franchise and that's being realistic. I would fully expect 11-13 or more wins next year.
Rookie head coaches make the playoffs all the time. I just don't get it.
I don't think my post was especially pessimistic. I outlined the various obstacles that face the 2019 Browns. Those obstacles are real and will require sacrifice and struggle to overcome. Things won't go as smoothly as we all hope in this time of giddy optimism that we all share.
I think the Browns can win 10+ games in 2019, despite all the obstacles. That might not sound like a lot of wins, but given the Browns recent track record, 10+ represents tremendous improvement. Winning 10 or more games in an NFL season is incredibly hard.
That said, I remain a pessimist in this one regard. My standard of excellence for an NFL franchise is to have back-to-back seasons of 10 or more regular season wins and at least one playoff win. The Browns haven't done this since '86 and '87 - over 30 years ago. Until the Browns once again reach this mark, they remain a clownshow.
Yeah, that's right. Clownshow until proven.... PROVEN... otherwise. Only wins are proof. All our feel good feelings and hope and optimism and the Browns' positive direction are not proof.
EXCELLENT ARTICLE.
Good find, Dawg.
No offense to ya'll...
But I don't understand the pessimism, I guess. Do some people actually convince themselves things aren't going to be great to avoid disappointment?
Anything short of hoisting the Lombardi trophy should be considered a failure for this franchise and that's being realistic. I would fully expect 11-13 or more wins next year.
Rookie head coaches make the playoffs all the time. I just don't get it.
I don't think my post was especially pessimistic. I outlined the various obstacles that face the 2019 Browns. Those obstacles are real and will require sacrifice and struggle to overcome. Things won't go as smoothly as we all hope in this time of giddy optimism that we all share.
I think the Browns can win 10+ games in 2019, despite all the obstacles. That might not sound like a lot of wins, but given the Browns recent track record, 10+ represents tremendous improvement. Winning 10 or more games in an NFL season is incredibly hard.
That said, I remain a pessimist in this one regard. My standard of excellence for an NFL franchise is to have back-to-back seasons of 10 or more regular season wins and at least one playoff win. The Browns haven't done this since '86 and '87 - over 30 years ago. Until the Browns once again reach this mark, they remain a clownshow.
Yeah, that's right. Clownshow until proven.... PROVEN... otherwise. Only wins are proof. All our feel good feelings and hope and optimism and the Browns' positive direction are not proof.
Diam. Oh DIAM. We got another doubter.
COME GET SOME, DAWG.
ATM .. I believe we will be around 8 - 8 to 9 - 6. We had some bad luck with referees, calls, and kicks, but we also caught the Bengals with a lot of their starters out due to injuries. I know that injuries are part of the game, but so are blind as a bat referees .. As Vers always points out, we may improve in FA and in the draft, but so will a lot of teams .. We will see how it goes, but this is a large part of why I wanted to stick with the coaches who got us this far. It should be interesting ...
Diam. Oh DIAM. We got another doubter.
COME GET SOME, DAWG.
Ooof. Please. Can't you find somebody else to take me down? Somebody who writes coherent sentences in English? I am a fuddy duddy who finds his stuff hard to read.
Thanks.
I thought the article made some key points
Next Steps To A Championship?
Time.
In 2019 the Browns will have a rookie head coach, a new offensive coordinator, a new defensive coordinator, and a new special teams coach.
In 2019 the Browns will still be one of the youngest teams in the NFL and they will be running new or significantly modified playbooks.
In 2019 the Browns will be filling a few major gaps on the roster and will continue adding critical depth to the back end of the roster.
In 2019 the Browns' opponents will have plenty of tape on Baker Mayfield and will take game planning against the Browns more seriously than in the past.
2019 is going to be another "two steps forward, one step back" sort of year. Expect the Browns to fully bloom in 2020 and 2021.
The journey will be great fun.
So it's not even next year, and your saying, wait until the """""NEXT" year,
Gotta love a franchise that (almost) never makes the playoffs, and, Are they really doing everything they can, to win?
So it's not even next year, and your saying, wait until the """""NEXT" year,
Gotta love a franchise that (almost) never makes the playoffs, and, Are they really doing everything they can, to win?
Re-read the thread.
I stated further on after that original post that I expect the Browns to win at least 10 games in 2019. Ten wins would very likely put the Browns in the playoffs, though not necessarily the Super Bowl.
My point is that the Browns still have some maturation and development ahead of them. I think they will be a pretty good team next year. But I don't think that they will be an elite team. Multi-year Superbowl contention starts in 2020.
Why is everyone so impatient? It has been over three decades since the Browns were considered top-of-the-league elite for multiple years in a row.
We've all waited for over 30 years. What's just one more?
So it's not even next year, and your saying, wait until the """""NEXT" year,
Gotta love a franchise that (almost) never makes the playoffs, and, Are they really doing everything they can, to win?
Re-read the thread.
I stated further on after that original post that I expect the Browns to win at least 10 games in 2019. Ten wins would very likely put the Browns in the playoffs, though not necessarily the Super Bowl.
My point is that the Browns still have some maturation and development ahead of them. I think they will be a pretty good team next year. But I don't think that they will be an elite team. Multi-year Superbowl contention starts in 2020.
Why is everyone so impatient? It has been over three decades since the Browns were considered top-of-the-league elite for multiple years in a row.
We've all waited for over 30 years. What's just one more?
I agree. Worst to First doesn't happen very often. It is usually a process that happens over 2-3 years..
So it's not even next year, and your saying, wait until the """""NEXT" year,
Gotta love a franchise that (almost) never makes the playoffs, and, Are they really doing everything they can, to win?
Re-read the thread.
I stated further on after that original post that I expect the Browns to win at least 10 games in 2019. Ten wins would very likely put the Browns in the playoffs, though not necessarily the Super Bowl.
My point is that the Browns still have some maturation and development ahead of them. I think they will be a pretty good team next year. But I don't think that they will be an elite team. Multi-year Superbowl contention starts in 2020.
Why is everyone so impatient? It has been over three decades since the Browns were considered top-of-the-league elite for multiple years in a row.
We've all waited for over 30 years. What's just one more?
I agree. Worst to First doesn't happen very often. It is usually a process that happens over 2-3 years..
We took the first step already - last to 3rd place (in the AFCN). Last to middle of the pack (with the draft position).
So it's not even next year, and your saying, wait until the """""NEXT" year,
Gotta love a franchise that (almost) never makes the playoffs, and, Are they really doing everything they can, to win?
Re-read the thread.
I stated further on after that original post that I expect the Browns to win at least 10 games in 2019. Ten wins would very likely put the Browns in the playoffs, though not necessarily the Super Bowl.
My point is that the Browns still have some maturation and development ahead of them. I think they will be a pretty good team next year. But I don't think that they will be an elite team. Multi-year Superbowl contention starts in 2020.
Why is everyone so impatient? It has been over three decades since the Browns were considered top-of-the-league elite for multiple years in a row.
We've all waited for over 30 years. What's just one more?
I agree. Worst to First doesn't happen very often. It is usually a process that happens over 2-3 years..
Worst to first happens more often than you'd think in today's NFL. So does 3rd to 1st,
The Jaguars and Eagles went worst to 1st last year, with the Eagles winning it all.
Injuries and adding or losing a key player here or there can change a team overnight. The NFL is set up to bunch the teams together in parity. That discourages dynasties .... though, obviously, the Pats are a huge exception.
However, bad teams can turn around in a heartbeat. The Rams are another team that went from "They suck" and "Their QB is a bust", to Super Bowl contenders with the hiring of McVay.
I agree.
Device,
I wouldn't call it pessimism. I'm very optimistic, but held in check by being realistic. We saw a couple times throughout the season how we're thin/hurting at certain positions which really hampered the team. I had a WR or two go down which left us scrambling. We had a corner or two go down which left us scrambling. Teams that realistically have a shot at a championship not only have enough good starters, but they also have depth to handle injuries (they happen to everyone).
I think we're too reliant on luck. We need another 1-2 good offseasons to round out this team. In the meantime, we need to learn to beat good teams, or at least be able to hang (ex. the KC and SD games).
What I think is funny, media thinks DePodesta left with Sashi I wish we could get a true account of DePodesta and his status with the Browns along with responsibilities. Who does he answer to? Dorsey?
NFL - Super Bowl LIV (2020) winner
LAR 6/1
KC 7/1
NO 8/1
NE 10/1
LAC, Chi 12/1
Pit 14/1
Min, GB 16/1
Phi, Dal, Bal, Ind 20/1
Sea, Atl, Cle, Hou, Jax 30/1
NYG, Car, SF 40/1
TB, Ten 60/1
Den 80/1
Wsh, Det, NYJ, Buf, Cin, Oak, Ari 100/1
Mia 300/1