BEREA, Ohio -- The Browns admitted on Tuesday that 2018 No. 33 overall pick Austin Corbett was a failed selection for them.

They traded Corbett to the Rams for an undisclosed draft pick.

The Browns originally felt Corbett could be their left tackle of the future. When it became apparent he was a guard, they traded starting left guard Kevin Zeitler to the Giants and penciled him in as the starter there. But Corbett failed to win the job out of training camp, and was relegated to backup center this year.






https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2019/10...draft-pick.html

Glad Dorsey isnt afraid to admit a mistake, move on and get something in return.

Dang...

Good for Dorsey. That should quiet the "prefers his guys" crowd for a little bit.

So what did we get? A 5th? A 4th?

I’d be upset if it was anything worse than a 5th.

Ham sandwich bag o chips

5th for a guy who couldn't make the field in this group? You should be happy if we got a ham sandwich.

What those folks always fail to recognize is that after the first cutdown, they are ALL "his guys".


Well, he wasn't cutting it here. I hope we got something to at least make it worth our while.

I'm predicting we got a 5th.

Sad that the dude was drafted that high and doesn't even foot the bill for "depth". Oh well, moving on. Hopefully there was a lesson to be learned.

According to 92.3 The Fan, we get an undisclosed 2021 draft pick. It does bring the wisdom of trading Kevin Zeitler into question.

I'm more interested in who takes his roster spot.

might have been a decent pick as the Rams just lost their starting RG. Might have been a position of desperation...kinda like what we almost did for Huey's QB last year

While I’m taking the 2018 draft every time, this pick had major ramifications. We traded Zeitler because Corbett was supposed to be good.

What a sucky pick .. but glad that experiment is over if he sucks

I’d be shocked if it’s more than a conditional seventh round pick.

we may have even swapped a 7th for a 6th

I was under the impression that Corbett was slotted to take over for Tretter whenever that time came. This, also, apparently is not happening.

Corbett was only on the roster because he was a second round pick. He was so bad that there was no chance he was in the future plans.

Thanks for the memories, Austin Corbett!

I'll never forget those 15 snaps.

Seemed like a super nice guy.

How so? He literally preferred his guy to Zeitler so much he traded Zeiter. This is the perfect example of it.

j/c...

What.

I think I'm four for four this year... including the 3rd for Duke.

I hope it's not a first rounder. I hope it's not a first rounder. I hope it's not a first rounder.....

Wow. Great job by the front office getting some value for a player who had no future with the team.

I predicted a 7th conditional 6th. Better than I thought. It wasn't a state secret he was stinking it up and we have nothing but golden opportunities for OLmen with skill. He did not impress in preseason and couldn't take the job. .

Oh my god it better not be. He's 31 with health issues.

Wow, Trent

This was a horrible pick.

Every day my faith in John Dorsey sinks a little more.

Never thought I would ever say that.

Kitchens looks like a bad hire right now. Baker looks like a 1 read QB who is slower than molasses, etc.

Actually, Nick Chubb from the 2018 draft looks like his only good pick here at the bye.

I actually find myself yearning for Sam Darnold these days.

We are getting a roster spot for Trent

It's a 5th... in 2021. Which, if you understand the time value of money (and assets) is probably something like a 6th or 7th in 2020. I'm sure there's a Jimmy Johnson graph for year on year draft values somewhere. Too lazy to go find.

I'd feel better about this if the guy only had a blue checkmark next to him ...

He’s a beat reporter for the Browns. He was first on OBJ. He also said we were signing Gerald McCoy.

.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many members of the Cleveland media try to stir-up controversy for the Browns.

This franchise has drafted the likes of Corey Coleman, Mingo, Manziel, Gilber, Weeden, Peppers, Trich, Brady Quinn, etc, etc and all have failed to varying degrees.

Dorsey has brought in a ton of talent and the media is going to make a comment like that about a second round pick.

It's hard to root for the Browns, at times. There is just so much bad karma that surrounds the team. We're always talking about firing coaches, creating controversy, playing the blame game, still holding on to Regime Wars, etc, etc.

Sorry for the rant, but damn man.

Wasn’t it a failed selection?

I feel like Dorsey is panicking.

Yes ... I don't think the wording is wrong or overly negative. Dorsey has been insanely good so far in his time at Cleveland. It's inevitable that you miss on picks - nothing wrong with that, unless you are 'always' missing more than you hit by a large margin.

we’ll see if it comes to fruition and what it costs .. but there’s no doubt he’s feeling some sort of way about our first 6 showings

It's probably worse.

Better than cutting the guy.

As I have said since the Couch days, the only thing worse than a blown pick is sticking with a blown pick.

Dust off the britches, wash your hands and move on.

Hey, it happens. It happens a lot. No way around it....in any sport.

I am hoping it is not a first rounder, but it probably will be a 1st rounder. I am hoping not much more.

So, two first rounders for Ramsey means that Trent won’t be that expensive at least

I'm not going to argue w/you guys. I gave my opinion on the matter and I'll leave it at that.

If Dorsey trades a first rounder for Trent Williams that would be as egregious as Freddie and Baker running a hurry up offense at the 5 yard line with a 1:30 left before the half with the lead.

Lol

Give it up man....you never wanted Baker in the first place, now you and others complain when you have the chance.

You live in Birmingham if I recall. I live in Chattanooga. That is about 130 miles apart. I drive to Montgomery to visit my sister and family every few months. Many times I spend the night in Bham to eat at the Highlands Grill. As good a restaurant as any in the country.


Maybe we can meet up. That isn't some challenge.

Maybe we can meet up, hoist a beer or three and talk about things.

Actually, Super has been a big Baker fan. I know because of some of the things he has said about me when I criticized Baker. LOL

You offered your opinion and I offered mine.

As for Trent Williams, I don't know a ton about him other than listening to Joe Thomas talk about him reverently preseason when the trade rumors first came up. He seemed to think TW was in a class alone. If we get him for 3 years of quality service, I'd take that really ght now. He'd improve the line significantly more than just the one guy he replaces.

Williams is still a top LT. And he’s a huge dude. He can swallow up anyone on that edge and he’s a mauler in the run game. Like literally just throws dudes

I am not positive about this, but I think Williams has missed games in all but two of his nine seasons, including the last five years before this season. He also wants a new contract. He has also refused to play football this season. He is also 31 years old. I also don't think our OL is nearly as bad as some folks are claiming. I think our Personnel packages and our qb holding the ball too long makes them look worse than they actually are.

I wanted Darnold. I was shocked we took Baker.

I took it all back when I saw the moxie and potential Baker had during the 2018 season.

Hell, I have over $2000 of Baker memorabilia right now.

Sure bro, just give me a pm and I'd be happy to meet you somewhere down here!

My thoughts on it are this. Parts of the equation: Baker, oline, coach, playmakers . If you are sure you have your qb, and committed to coach, and your receivers have been top talent their whole career. What’s left to upgrade. Despite the opinion the line has been ok, the fact remains our tackles rank in the bottom of the league. If you go back and watch tape, baker almost never throws left. I think a lot has to do with the pressure getting to him quickly from that side. All that said, if you have an opportunity to upgrade the one variable in the equation I think you have to

I am not saying that you are wrong to voice that opinion, but man, I disagree w/that opinion in a huge way. I respect your right to voice that opinion and it's cool to see different takes, but I just don't agree w/it at all.

Like Vers said...Williams is getting old and has been very injury prone...which may shorten his career some...but if he is the type to play late years like Joe Staley is? I'm not sure...

When he is healthy he is in top 5 or 6 of LTs...one thing I absolutely love his attitude...Hes a lot like Taylor Lewan...doesnt take crap from anyone and plays like a grizzly bear...loves to manhandle you...he does get a stupid penalty every here and there, from swinging or roughing someone up after the play...but he'll fit right in here lol I think a long time ago he tore someone's helmet off then tried beating him up haha

If it is true...I'm surely hoping we aren't giving up a first one round pick...I dont think he has more than a couple years left, he will want a very large deal, and those injuries...

Is he the dude who slapped Richard Sherman upside the head? If so, I bet Baker is making a big push to trade for this guy. LOL

Haha it must have been 5 or 6 years ago, but it may have been..I think his teammates had to pull him away...he had numerous issues with his temper...but he has cooled down his temper flares the past several years

Baker will have William's bunk with him for sure haha

Also Washingtons Oline has been trash without Trent Williams... despite having Brandon Schreff and big ole Moses on the right side...anytime I've seen them this year, all the announcers mention is how bad that Oline has been.

I was thinking it was kinda cool he went upside Sherman's head. Not that I am into violence or anything like that. LOL

Well, let me amend that statement. I have always found that when people run their mouths a lot, the quickest way to shut them up is to go upside their head. I have done it to some dudes and some dudes have done it to me. It was all good.

Washington's OL has battled a lot of injuries for years. Williams is a good player and I understand why folks want to trade for him. I respect that opinion. I just don't agree w/it. I know quite a bit about the OL and I don't thin our OL is that bad. I would love to have him, but the it seems cost prohibitive to me. Not saying I am right. Just a feeling.

Trading for Williams would be an awful move for this team. Trading a first for 31 yr tackle would be detrimental.

The only way it isn't is if we win the super bowl... this year.

Ugh.

i agree .. it’s not like we’re one move away IMO ... this team isn’t ready to be a big time contender. I’d rather keep the asset and draft a young OT that we covet

Yes, draft an OT or sign one in free agency. The latter would be expensive, but at least we would not give up a draft choice.

I think we are at a point where we need to make a conscious effort to keep our draft picks. We acquired a ton in the past and it was alright to make some moves, but we are another year down the road towards rookie contracts expiring. Keeping our draft picks seems smart in my opinion.

According to Wiki, which is by no means the end all on the internet, Trent Williams is a Brown.


*someone just switched it back.

Trent Williams is 31 years old and last time he played a full season was 2013, He is looking for a big extension.

What do u give up a 5th?, 4th?, a 3rd?

I’d give up a third max, which means I’m not getting him.

I wouldn't trade anything more than what we just traded Corbett for....

Yes, i agree

JC

I have mixed emotions. I don't think 31 is all that old for a O lineman. He should still have 5-6 good years.

On the other hand, I like draft picks.

I won't go berserk if we make a trade, but I think we should stick with the bed Dorsey made, even if not very comfortable, and keep the pick(s).

Maybe if we would have used this philosophy before making the OBJ, Murray, and Vernon trades we’d actually be a better team right now too.

Keep Zeitler, Peppers, and Ogbah ... use that 1st round pick on either a OT or WR, and then snag a FA OT/WR

If anybody should be traded it is Ward. What has he done besides play a couple preseason games. Is stickem still ok to use? If it is the Browns equipment manager should get some and hand it out to the WRs.

Vernon: 15 tackles, 1 sack, 1 forced fumble, w/ a cap hit of $15.5M
Ogbah: 21 tackles, 2.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, 1 pass defended, 2 stuffs, w/ a cap hit of $1.35M

I still would expect Vernon to end the season with better numbers than Ogbah simply because he is playing more (342 snaps vs 229 snaps), and thus, a bigger opportunity to rack up stats, but this is a pretty bad start as far as those particular numbers are concerned.
----------

Peppers: 40 tackles, 3 pass defended, 1 interception, 1 TD, 1 forced fumble, w/ cap hit of $1.4M*
Burnett: 16 tackles, 2 sacks, 1 stuff, w/ cap hit of $2.59M

* Peppers has played in two more games than Burnett due to injury.

So, unless OBJ really catches fire here ... it looks like a bad set of trades (let’s not forget that we could have drafted somebody of value with pick 19 last year)

Ward has been kind of a China doll but the other guy we were considering ( Bradley Chubb ) is I think out for the season.

thing about draft picks...they end up like the Ervings, corbetts, njokus and wards..they don't really help and you never know what you're getting..as opposed to a proven pro bowl caliber LT. Sure picks pan out as well..but just pointing out the devil you know vs the devil you don't . Think about this, once had JT, Alex Mack, Bitonio and Mitchell schwartz on the same team..we went 3-13..lol

j/c:

I don't know if I would say a bad set. I really like Peppers but I understand packaging him for Odell. And yes Odell has been underperforming but Baker's play is certainly a factor in his production.

I think the Zeitler/Vernon trade is pretty much a bad one in my eyes and felt that way since the day it happened.

Im not going to say it was a bad trade although I can certainly see that side of it. I think it was an unnecessary trade.

Notable stat: OBJ and Landry are one of only 2 WR duos in the top 20 of receiving yards in the NFL so far this season. (Godwin and Evans the other)

I guess the question one could ask when it comes down to it, is which player would be helping your franchise quarterback (the most important position on the field) more? Zeitler or OBJ?

I would argue that it's OBJ.

That could be the case of course, though it’s tough to say after only 6 weeks one way or the other.

We have to get Baker and OBJ more time to gel ... they clearly aren’t comfortable with each other yet

I think back to something Freddie said about last season.

The team finally came around because they had 8 games under their belt. He said something similar in regards to this season.

We've also had one of the hardest schedules to date. The Ravens have had one of the easiest. Things about to change.

The Zeitler trade was sketchy the moment it happened. Every team does the OBJ trade every time. While they ended up being the same trade they really were two separate trades.

So, to follow the flowchart, which player is more likely to contribute to a championship once they do gel (assuming they will)? HOF type talent at WR or a Probowl guard?

I was never "in love" with the OBJ trade. Once Perriman was signed, I thought we had a formidable staff. However, OBJ is elite talent. You can't necessarily draft that unless you're at the very top of the draft. If you assume BM has enough talent to take you to the promised land, OBJ may be one of the few players that puts that prospect over the top.

Yes, I just assumed that Dorsey thought Corbett could fill in for Zeitler and be 80% as good ... and that the salary wasn’t worth it. And then Vernon could be way better than Ogbah

I think Kush is playing well.

I think Kush is serviceable. He's had some good games and some not-so-good games. I think Zeitler was not only much better (obviously) but good/great enough to "help" Hubbard. That's a lot to ask of any RG, but Kush has his hands full being average on a consistent basis. I think Teller replaces him at RG and Kush becomes the 1st backup. JMO.

With the benefit of hind sight - the sum of the DL with Vernon and the sum of the OL without Zeitler is much less than the sum of the OL with Z and the sum of the DL without Vernon.

That's as of today.

Vernon had his highest graded game vs Seattle - 90+ from PFF - and it takes time for the OL to gel. Add to that the offensive scheme is taking deeper shots and is asking the OL to hold their blocks for longer (so far - let's hope that changes) .... just like Freddie - it's too early to call the result of the trade.

j/c

So we got a fifth rounder for a player most fans thought stunk. Then we get some unconfirmed rumor about a trade for Trent Williams and everyone wants to play revisionist history.

Amazing.....

I say we traded up, a bust for a crapshoot, I guess. So is Trent W. with us or no? Hope we get some help, because more of the same is not acceptable IMO.

I think TW is a special player in this league, but for all the reasons you listed, I don't think he is worth the asking of a 1st rounder and the money we will need to give him. We would need to pay him roughly 12 mil next year (if we don't resign him - which we probably would), as well as give up a very high asset in the process for 10 games this year and 16 next. So a first rounder for possibly 26 games of a LT.... Usually trading for a player mid season is a risk, as they don't know the offense, they don't know the scheme etc.

You probably know more than I, but I would think OL would be an easier position to transition to a new team at than say WR or LB. But maybe not. You don't know the QB or his tendencies which can be important.

For me, if Wash wants a 1st, bye bye.

There is a reason no other teams traded for him before the year. People need to remember that....


Edit to add:

Joe retired at what, 33 due to his body breaking down. And he wasn't nearly as in rough shape as TW has been in. But, maybe playing through all those injuries hurt joe in the long run. IDK. I would just not like to give up a valuable asset for a guy that we could lose in 26 games, or a guy that's going to be out of football in 3 years - when we can get a road grader in the draft for the next 12 years.

You don't think Vernon has any effect on the fact Myles is having his best pass rush year yet? People are saying how OBJ not having a great year but he's opening up things for others, are not seeing that maybe OV is doing the same for others on the line.

Honestly I think Sheldon and Ogunjobi are doing as much to help MG as anyone on the DL .... I think the idea of having 'studs' at each position along the DL is great, but to be honest I have been underwhelmed to date. And MG has had a couple of break out games with sacks, but there is more to great play than pressures and sacks. . . although with that said I also think playing 4-2-5 against some good run teams is a bigger issue.

I think that if all of these players had exactly the same numbers they have now, but if we were playing mostly mistake-free football and our record was 4-2 instead of 2-4, everyone would be quite a bit happier with everything.

I think that the continuous blunders, mental lapses, and penalties every game are coloring people's perspective of things.


It's kinda like when Mitchell Schwartz was here and everyone hated on him and bagged on him until it was pointed out that his biggest fault was that his name isn't Joe Thomas.

You can lay the blame on both of them, as well as the o-line, and the coaching.

No doubt about it ... if we were disciplined and a consistent team we’d be 4-2 right now and everything would be roses

I did a quick glance at TW's games played totals for each season. Just saying he hasn't played a full season since 2013 doesn't tell the whole story. He's never missed more than 6 games, which might be somewhat positive, but the thing I didn't like is that the trend is going the wrong way. In 2014 he played in 15 games, then 14, then 12, then 10... and in 2018 he played in 13.

That could mean he's breaking down, without looking up the nature of the injuries that kept him out of those games.

One of Trent Williams' main complaints about Washington is that they have a horrible training staff.

Normally I'd ignore complaints like that, but the fact that Jordan Reed is still allowed anywhere near a football field (with all his concussions and various ailments) might be damning evidence.

Slightly more seriously, a handful of TW's teammates basically supported his criticism of the Washington medical staff, IIRC.

I liked your post and this is not a criticism. Just trying to provide some info on my experience.

Offensive line is the hardest spot to transition to when coming to a new team other than qb. RB is the easiest. You tell us the holes and blocking schemes and give us the rock.

Offensive line play demands guys working in cohesion. Misinformed folks always say you can't evaluate OL play until the pads come on. That is so false. The steps, angles, timing, gaps, cohesion, when to pass a guy off or when to double, etc, etc are huge and that can all be done w/out pads. Of course, that takes a ton of time and a ton of reps.

I think our OL was horrible against Tenn in the opener. But consider this. They had a new OL coach and a new piece. This OL has gotten better and better as the season progressed. They dominated the Rats' DL. They did not give up a sack against Seattle w/Clowney and Ansah. They all had PFF grades of 80 plus in pass blocking, other than Hubbard.

Excellent point!

cfrs posted something about Myles being tied for the league lead in sacks, but he is only 10th in double teams. I think it is clear that Vernon has a lot to do w/that and Dorsey maybe knew what he was doing when he made that trade.

Not just Vernon, but Ogun and Richardson, too.

An Oline really can't double anyone without it being a very severe pick-your-poison scenario.

Two Points

Point the First....
Bravo John Dorsey! He blew a pick but didn't let his ego compel him into letting that blown pick fester on the roster, wasting a valuable roster spot for years on end. We finally have a GM who doesn't get sucked into the Sunk Cost Fallacy. Hooray!

Now the decks are cleared to take action and improve the second string O-Line or some other position of need.

Point the Second....
What happened with Corbett? Why was he such an epic fail?

As best I can determine, he was not wildly overdrafted by any means. And yet, all the other offensive linemen who were drafted in the first and second rounds of that draft are doing just fine. But Corbett barely ever made the active roster on gameday. He couldn't even cut it as a backup.

Why?

I'm only assuming he couldn't make the transition inside after playing LT in college...I never saw anything really regarding him struggling elsewhere (attitude, off field, etc) I'm assuming he just couldn't make the transition...but who knows...learning two different schemes in his short time probably confused him more.

Marcus Peters doesn’t even make sense for us.

Jc

Yeah, unless we would have gotten a 1st round pick I’d say no as well

Yea, now admit to the biggest mistake he made and fire Kitchens!

That would be the same FO that picked him with the FIRST PICK of the 2nd round...sorry no kudos for the FO on this one!

j/c

I think it was a terrible pick. So the blame goes to Dorsey on the pick.

I think getting a fifth rounder out of him and moving on after making a mistake is something he should also get credit for.

Everyone in this world makes mistakes. It's what you do moving forward after making a mistake that speaks volumes.

Too many times I've seen GM's be stubborn and cling to those mistakes.