so, i will give freddie this: even though during the game we get infuriated at the perceived lack to the run game.....technically, its not true.

Nich chubb is 1st in the nfl in rushing yards with 1408.

he's tied for 2nd with Carson and elliot with 19.3 attempts per game. only Derrick Henry has more carries a game....with 19.4.

he's again tied for 2nd with the same players for overall attempts at 270. only Henry has more...with 271

of running backs in the top 10, chubb is 1st in the nfl with a 5.2 average per rush.

chubb is 1st in the nfl with 100.6 yards a game average.

1st in the nfl with 11 runs of 20+ yards.

1st in the nfl with 4 runs of 40+ yards.

and only has 2 fumbles, both coming in the same game against the patriots.

Chubb also has 35 catches for 277 yards.

he has been the one consistent bright spot on this team, and his season #'s means we're gonna have a 1st team All-pro when the season ends, especially since we have two games left for him to get more stats.

I know we all bag on freddie, and rightfully so, but Chubb usage has been on par with the top tier running backs around the league.

We are 15th overall in rush attempts, though.

which is a problem, but also requires context. Freddie has used hunt extensively since coming off of suspension. but prior to that, who was the running back behind chubb? hilliard. he wasnt gonna get the amount of touches that hunt has. plus, we do have big name receivers, and freddie has *tried* for balance. im trying to think of a team that was top 5 in rushing attempts with two very good WR's on the roster.

the best i came up with was the 2016 falcons. they had a top 5 rushing attack...but was only 12th overall in rushing attempts as a team that year.

this year for example, you can maybe say the vikings, who are 3rd, but theilen has been injured a very huge chunk of the season. going down the list, atleast on paper, 1-15 its hard to find a team that compares talent wise to obj and landry as a duo.

Vikings, and texans are about it.

so had hunt been available at the start of the season, that ranking probably would've moved up.

Chubb is an amazing talent.

Freddie does give him the ball enough, but it's when does Freddie give him the ball. Chubb gets forgotten about in stretches of the game.

How many times have we seen the Browns run an empty set from inside the 5 yard line?

Last game the Browns had 3rd and 2 twice in critical situations and both times Chubb was on the sidelines. The Browns elected to shovel pass to Landry and throw to Landry. Neither resulted in a first down.

This past game against the Cardinals the Browns forgot Chubb was on the team until they were down 14 and ran Chubb 4 straight times and he scored.

After the late interception in the second Steelers game the Browns have the ball in Steelers territory with a chance to tie it up and how many times does Freddie give the ball to Chubb? Zero. And then Freddie says after the game, "I should have given the ball to Nick."

That same Steelers game, Chubb only had 7 carries in the second half.

Against the Bengals and their 32nd ranked rush defense Nick Chubb had 3 carries at halftime.

I could go on, but you get the point.

So I will not give Freddie credit for Chubb being an amazing talent and extremely hard worker. I'll give the credit to Nick Chubb.

Chubb doesn't even need his LT to block for him!....

At some point I actually think it would be a good idea to give more carries to Hunt. Chubb is the better runner but such a big workload tends to grind backs down over the the long haul.

Give Hunt some more touches, let's see what he can do, maybe showcase him a bit more as it might make sense to trade him at some point. Or maybe it might make more sense to keep both for the long haul. It's hard to say.

I'm certainly not sticking up for Freddie here, but I do find one thing rather odd.

When players don't seem motivated and prepared, everyone seems quick to lay the blame on Freddie. Yet you just made it obvious that if a player is motivated and a big time contributor, you certainly won't give Freddie any credit for it.

Isn't that a double standard?

Freddie has been singing this guys praise near constantly since the offseason.

If I were GM I would try to lock Nick up 2 seasons early to get a discount otherwise I'd ride him and let him walk. Paying running backs is a fools game.

thats the thing that bothers me with HOW freddie uses chubb. he uses him in chunks, not sustained series or anything like that. too many stretches that the run game disappears, then out of nowhere, all we want to do is run the rock.

i think dorsey signed hunt to keep him for the long haul.

baker's best friend in any offensive scheme will be the run game. chubb and hunt have already proven multiple times this season to be an absolute nightmare for defenses.

i think just simply due to the makeup of this city and such, we have to keep chubb. i agree we need to lock him up quickly.

There are always many unique circumstances that can't be explained by stats alone. Personally, I think your OP is spot on, and although there have been times I've been screaming "Chubb!" at the field or TV, his usage is right about where it needs to be.

This is rather interesting though, and shows how hard it is to tell the whole story with stats...

Last three games:
Browns rush attempts per game ~ 25th in the league
Rushing average per game ~ 3rd

Why? Because the run game was abandoned in two of three games... down 10 to the Steelers and 14 to the Cards. In games with decent to comfortable leads (all three of them) we have run the crap out of the ball.

Nick Chubb is the best player on a talented team. However, at the top of the league in attempts and yards it's hard to call him underutilized.

It's been discussed that when simply looking at the overall rushing attempts for Chubb, everything seems fine. It's when you look at how he comes about those carries that the conversation takes you right back to where it began... Freddie's (mis)use of Chubb.

yea its why i mention the fact that for the 1st half of the season, we didnt have anybody reliable to run the rock behind chubb.

i think the numbers would be different had hunt been available week 1.

I hope not at any time soon. We have the potential of killing teams with NC and KH in the backfield.

I think we Browns fans have been conditioned by years of this stuff to expect it. We've been trading away useful players for bags of beans since The Return. It's as baked-in to the CLE mindset as Draft Day being more exciting than reg season.

I think that under decent coaching/scheme/play-calling, we could ride these two to multiple post-season appearances for the next 3 years or so (barring cap space considerations).

Keep Hunt. Work Hunt.

.02

Hands down the best player on the team!!!!!!!

No reason for Chubb to not be on the field any time there is a big play.
ie. 3rd and short or anytime inside the 5 yard line.

I feel the last part is where we as fans might be right in our thinking that FK is not the man for the job.

No it’s not for the simple fact that Nick Chubb has been the same player each and every game since Week 1. He’s brought zero drama to this team and when he’s on the field there has been zero doubt about his effort, focus, preparedness, etc. If you could say the same thing about most of this team then yes, Freddie should get credit for that. But since these things can’t be said about more than a couple players, Nick Chubb is an aberration on a Kitchens coached team.

Precisely. Freddie has done very little to use Chubbs success or even the threat of what Chubb can do effectively on a consistent basis. Add in Hunt, there is no reason we shouldn’t be the kings of play action

Or if it's 1st and goal on the 5, we go all pass happy. If it's third and short, we go empty backfield. If we actually start using Chubb consistently, we don't bother to mix in play-action.
It's almost like we line up in obvious pass-formation or obvious run formation. It's no wonder that multiple teams have said they know what we're running before we run it.

J/C ....... It's weird ...... people complain that we are a super pass heavy team, but we are 16th in rush attempts, and 18th in pass attempts.

Also weird people complaining about the OL when we are a good running team.

It's weird when the ones making these complaints have to re-explain over and over again why they're legit complaints.

Pass happy in situations where we should run the ball, or at least have a RB in the backfield.

OL needs improved at pass-blocking, especially when we're trying to go for a pass-happy O.

I see.

Players do bad things = Freddie's fault

Players do good. = Just lucky.

I'll stick with my double standard comment.

Why do we run 5 wide near the goalline? Because the QB's reads are simplified. Freddie is actually trying to help Baker in those situations.

I think our OL needs a lot of improvement. I don't think that they are particularly good at pass or run blocking. I read something about Chubb having the most yards after contact in the NFL. I wish I could find it now.

I think it's mainly because our passing game has more examples of things going disasterously wrong, so they stick in the mind more.

But it's never one thing, it's a bunch of different random things each week in the passing game.

Hopefully our struggles this season are a series of freak aberrations. Things may have snowballed after starting that way. Lack of trust in pass catchers rooted in the early bad randomness may be a factor.

I don't think adding new people will magically instill trust.

You won't (re)develop trust by not throwing.

I think its time we start looking at it saying "the top tier running backs around the league have been on par with Nick Chubb"

he has quickly become the best RB in the league.

J/C

I also would like to point out, if it wasn't for Nick Chubb, this team would have 4 wins or less.

I agree with that bro. Regardless of our coaching situation, I think if we have Chubb and hunt next year, we could have two running backs with 1000 yards a piece. Whether that’s total with passing yards and such, oh well, but they have that kind of ability.

I think Chubb is as good as any RB in the NFL. 'Best' is a tough thing to prove or even debate when many have different skill sets, play for better/worse teams or OL ... Chubb is an elite back though and I wouldn't swap him for anyone. Not only because of his ability, but also because of his character and attitude.... Chubb is easily my second favorite Browns player since 1999 right after Joe Thomas.

Yeah, he’s been about the only bright spot ... “so shines a good deed in a weary world”

My Granddaughter trying to sly (Christmas) asked me if I bought another Browns jersey what player would I want and I said Garrett and Chubb are my favorite players but I would love a Chubb #24

In this season that has been defined by a roster of highly talented players who are underachieving, coaches who seem clueless on how to use their talent, an arrogant franchise QB who shows sign of regression, players taking plays off and sleepwalking, games lost that should have been won & drama after drama...Nick Chubb is the one consistent bright spot week after week. He is also humble and clearly works hard on every play in every game. We should count ourselves lucky he is in Orange & Brown. He is definitely my favorite player on this team and I would love to personally shake his hand and tell him thank you. A true dawg!

This may be a little off track, but one of the things I noticed in the Cards game is the respect the other team showed Chubb. They might jaw with other players, but they help him up with a pat on the shoulder.

+1

When Nick is done running the ball and being great for the team...

Hire him as HC... lol

If it feels so good to be wrong, why would you want to be right?

Freddie’s own words early on about Chubb were about how diligent of a worker he was and his level of effort from Day 1. Day 1 Chubb is no different than Week 15 Chubb.

So you want to give Freddie credit for the player Nick Chubb is and was prior to coming to Cleveland? Got it

Let’s say for arguments sake I spot you Chubb and I’ll be generous and throw in Hunt, and we’ll credit Freddie for their performance.... let’s all stand and slow clap as you give Freddie the Coach of the Year Award because he managed to get 2 whole players out of 53 to be consistent. Bravo sir, Bravooooo.

Imagine Chubb behind a good run blocking line. Imagine Chubb with a good run scheme.

I love Nick Chubb.

I wonder what Greg Roman could do with our backfield?

Or Pete Carmichael. If nothing else, the Browns would not be performing their due diligence without interviewing him. Seems like an interesting candidate given the weapons we have offense.

Probably nothing radically different. Maybe relative/minor adjustments such as more consistent usage throughout the game, less empty sets, more divvying up touches and that sort of thing.

Having a mobile QB that you're willing to use as a runner is largely what makes that offense go. The same was true in his time in San Fran with Kaepernick and Buffalo with Taylor. Runs from the zone read are just better and more efficient than 'normal' running plays, for a number of reasons. Running backs thrive in that environment. This forces adjustments which opens holes and throwing lanes in the defense, which can further be exploited by moving the QB around.

Roman has done a masterful job of building that offense and deserves a head coaching job in this league for his efforts.

I'm sure he's more than capable of building an offense around a non-mobile QB, one that has good down field accuracy with big play receivers that's really meant as more of an explosive, downfield passing attack. It's just not what he's done in the league or what he's known for.

Our line is good blocking, what are you saying here?

Give the guys credit, before Chubb came in we were already running the ball.

i agree ... he’s gotta be our Barry sanders

Happy birthday Dawg!

If you are going to blame him for the poor play of others, you have to give him credit for the good play of others. Your hyperbole and snarkiness doesn't change the fact you wish to blame him for all of our ills but no credit for what's right.

I've actually stated that I have no problem if Freddie is fired, but the double standard and two faced way you are packaging your opinion holds zero merit.

Everything wrong = Freddie bad.

Everything good = Freddie bad.

I guess the art of fair play is lost on you.

And yeah, the special teams has sucked too, right?

Let me guess, the ST's coach gets credit for the good but the poor O and D has nothing to do with the OC and DC. That's all Freddie's fault.

You sir have a very slanted and one sided way of looking at things. Trying to blame me for that is lame at best.

I agree with you. I think our Oline, while it should be improved this offseason, is good enough to run a decent NFL offense... but there's a concerning thing that happens from time to time. On the rare occasion we do decide to run the ball on short yardage situations we seem to get stuffed quite a bit. I don't have numbers to back up what I'm saying, but those plays do stick out.

IMO, a "good" offensive line with a great RB like Chubb should be able to get 2-3 yards when they need it (even if the defense knows it's coming).

Our tackles are NOT good. And we struggle to get any sort of push up front, at all. This is not an OLine that will blow people off the line.

I wonder if that's why we don't run more? Do you think it has anything to do with keeping the opposing D guessing so we do better with the run?

I think that is why we go with Hunt or empty backfield inside the 5 or on 3rd downs, yes.

We've seen it every game starting in Game 1 where guys were blowing through gaps on us. How many times have we seen a DT push between Tretter & Bitonio to blow up a play this year?

I don't know if it is the blocking scheme, or what, but the end result is that we get beat up front often.

Actually my question was something I was pretty aware of before I asked it. I just felt people may be more receptive to the answer if it came from you.

lol!

I'm not sure anyone puts any stock at all into what I write, but thank you for the vote of confidence, hehehe

Honestly, I think the memorandum was sent down that Baker is to be the face of this team, and they want Baker getting the numbers and accolades. JMO

After seeing how we run on third and short and at the goal line, I have no idea how that could be the conclusion you come to.

Thanks buddy

I hope you're joking... or maybe just high, lol

What? We literally run empty sets on goal to go and 3rd and short almost exclusively. We ran the ball 7 times in the half against Pittsburgh, and 1 time with Chubb two weeks ago in the 1st Q.

Not at all. We literally have the best backfield in the league, and run 3rd and short and goal line empty sets almost exclusively at times. They are calling the game to put the ball in Bakers hands, not Chubbs.

If it wasn't, Chubb would be on the field in crucial downs. Instead, they pull him.

I know what they are doing, it is your guess as to the reasoning that I am questioning.

If you honestly believe that they are calling plays based on who they think the face of the franchise is or should be, then I think that you should seriously take a step back and reconsider your views of things. The entire notion is absurd, frankly.

It just makes me want to buy weed from him.

I think if you think that what they are doing is a good idea you should be taking the step back.

They are absolutely putting the ball in Bakers hands. Its been talked about on a wide range of media locally and nationally. IN key moments of the game - they are passing the ball. just about every key moment frankly. In fact, its pretty obvious. Run Chubb run chubb Run chubb, as soon as a key play comes up or its time to score - call a play for baker to make a throw. They want Baker to be the hero, plain and simple. Its like watching a Coach Kilmer football game lol.

I think our line, overall, is fine (they were downright good to end the year last year). I think each of the 5 starters are NFL-starter quality. They would at least push for a starting spot on just about any NFL roster. None are world-beaters, however... and we should look to upgrade... particularly at both tackle positions. Wanting to upgrade and thinking they suck are miles apart, imo.

I think the reason we don't run on short yardage situations (much less go empty backfield) is because of stupid playcalling. I don't think it's because of our line. I tend to remember them getting stuffed quite a bit when they do try to punch it through on the ground. I acknowledge that, and acknowledge it doesn't help my argument, but I'm sticking with it regardless because I don't have hard evidence in front of me to prove it (it being our line tends to get dominated in short yardage).

You realize that our RT and guard never started before they were here, right? They were BACKUPS. So no, we don't have quality NFL starters at all 5 positions, and I would argue that Robinson hasn't played starter quality this entire year.

So you're saying at the most pivotal moments, at the exact time our opponents are expecting us to run the ball, are setting up for the run, against an OL the vast majority of our fan base feels is a weak OL, he doesn't run the ball?

JC

A few weeks ago we had EIGHT straight plays from the 1 yd line. Chubb had five by himself. We walked away with NOTHING. Somehow, some way, defenses seem to know what we're doing whether we're running or passing.

Their play this year has been influenced by playcalling/scheme and Baker's regression, in that order.

Hubbard actually started last year looking worse than he did this year. I glossed over the RG position because I didn't want my post to go off on a tangent. You could definitely make the argument that RG is weak. I think the guy we had in there last week looked alright. Depending on who we've had in there and their health, I think we've looked anywhere from 'ok' to 'meh'.

Offensive line needs to improve before week 1 of next year, and that will be accomplished almost solely by bringing in people via FA and draft. But to blame the Oline for this season before any combo of Freddie, Monken, Baker, the TE/FB position is wrong. Again... IMO.

They absolutely are putting in his hands because that is how the play-action game works... it goes through the QB, and they clearly don't feel we can run it effectively and consistently in a short-yardage situation. Their biggest failure is empty sets and even doing any of it without Chubb on the field because the run threat isn't as real without him there. When it is just Hunt, it is a given we are throwing out of the backfield and not running.



That is a completely foolish conclusion. NOBODY, not even 13 year olds playing Madden, call plays just to let one player have their image boosted.
That is flat out one of the more ridiculous things I've read - and that is saying a lot given some of the things on here lately.

"Maybe when I am older I will look back. I am still in my NFL career. I am still just starting so I am just trying to go find a way to get better find motivation so I am not going to say that I did great things. Try to find something else to train for & get better on” -Nick Chubb

Well they were not shy letting people think Freddie was named HC because of Baker, so...

And yes, I also think much of our game was designed to make Baker shine, Dorsey even went and got one of the best receivers of the history...

We all know how it ended.

Actually, we don't.

Playaction doesnt work unless there is a threat to run the ball. So the play action game, technically goes through the RB. And frankly, we do not use Play Action nearly enough, so im not sure why you would even bring that up. We dont run play action in those situations i outlined. We run empty set, shovel passes, and QB sneaks.


Cool, multiple former players in the league have actually pointed this out - Jerrod Cherry being one, im sure being a SB winning NFL player his observations are that of a 13 year old, and yours are the final conclusion of whats actually happening.

Agree to disagree, ok. But to try to bash someone elses opinion that is actually very logical and has been stated by FORMER PLAYERS is well, beneath you. Foolish is your attitude - especially when just about every acquisition this year was to make Baker more comfortable and to give HIM opportunities to flourish.

Why did we hire FC? He wasnt qualified, but it was to appease Baker.

Why did we get Odell? Jaris before that? Hunt? This team was built for Mayfield to shine. If you dont think they want to showcase him, well... i have a beachfront condo in South Dakota i can sell you for the weekends.

As long as by 'gameplan' you mean when Freddie and Monken got together before the season, TC, etc and laid out "this is how we want the offense to look". The high-level scheme was certainly intended to showcase Baker throwing the ball to OBJ and others. Hilariously, we weren't built to do that. We didn't have the line to hold off a pass rush for forever while routes developed and Baker can see and pull the trigger. We didn't have the QB (as he is now) to handle execution of said offense. I think Baker can get there, but he's in his second year with his second or third offense/OC (feel free to debate this point), coming from an offense that highlighted not him, but the run game, and required him to quickly pull off simple reads and spread the ball around.

Hold on. I gotta back up here... Former players pointed out that a memorandum was handed down to make sure Baker gets most of the numbers and accolades??? From whom? Jimmy?

former NFL players, not former Browns.

Jerrod Cherry was just saying the other day this was the case, and that the entire plan was to make Baker the centerpeice of this offense. Thats why they brought in Monken for the air raid. You dont build a variation of "air raid" to run the ball. . . . .

We have a good OL, much better OL than a QB... Baker just couldn't do it, not even with Landry and OBJ.

Hope he improves, but don't pin his inability on others. Our OL was/is more than serviceable, much better than Wilson's.

IMHO the true test of the quality of the OL is the running game.

j/c

It's an odd thing to read some of these responses.

In the past fans have been upset because we didn't have quality WR's to support a young QB we drafted in order to give him the best chance to succeed. Now giving a QB those weapons is some conspiracy to make him the focus.

It's like my grandpa Dan Rosanna Danna said..... "It's always something."

Yeah, this thread has taken a strange turn.

Worst than that is people wanting to get rid of the talented players... that I do not understand.

Also Baker fans going after Dorsey, when if he did anything was give Baker the conditions to succeed... we didn't even have a viable backup QB, if we did we would probably be in the playoffs...

I read the things you are writing and I keep seeing the Billy Madison academic decathlon in my head.


Yes, Baker is the centerpiece of the offense.
Yes, the offense is built around the QB... pretty much all of them are.

That is NOT the same as calling plays at the goalline to boost a players stats/image. Nobody does that. Nobody.

Better you than me this time.

Well worst than calling plays at the goal line to boost a players image, is not sign a viable QB, when it was clear that he was struggling and had to be benched.

Also call low risk plays to boost the player image, because you can't call the players you need to take the team to playoffs.

Yes, Baker had a better second half of the season because not only the opposition was bad, but because we were more interested in protecting him than going to the playoffs.

j/c

This board gets harder to read by the day.......

This board just morphed into Bizarro World around me. If I say it, type it, then it is the New Truth and Revisioned Reality. Apparently you CAN make some of this stuff up.

You say you don't have an agenda, however - there is not a single thread. NOT. A. SINGLE. THREAD. that you don't talk or bash Baker in.

Freddie Kitchens Thread - You talk baker
Nick Chubb Thread - Baker
John Dorsey - Baker

Im surprised your not talking about Baker being part of the impeachment process.....

Go spit.

Freddie Kitchens Thread ... he is the HC because of Baker
Nick Chubb ... we don't run the ball in goal line and use empty backfields because we built an offense around Baker
John Dorsey... he drafted Baker, then hire the HC for Baker..(I actually trust Dorsey, he brought a ton of talent here...)

OBJ ... People are using him to make excuses for Baker. I don't understand all the hate towards him here in Cleveland, he is one of the greatest talents at the position in the history of the NFL, we should all be grateful he's playing here.


So you see it all related, no conspiracy theories here and no Agenda. Baker was the worst QB in the league this year, so sugar coating that.

But in the end, I'm very positive about the team, and don't understand all the fuss. Sure it would be better to just fire Kitchens and move on, but even if we don't we are in a good position providing we don't implode the project.

Any excuse is better than none at all I guess.

No agenda, then you throw out false information like this. You are now on ignore. Go troll a steeler page.

Isn't that true?

"Im surprised your not talking about Baker being part of the impeachment process....."

You mean he's not ?? I thought he was a Senator .. Ohh, that's right .. I'm thinking Howard Baker, the former Senator from Tennessee ..

It's highly/easily debatable.

The short answer, however, is he did not rank dead last in any statistical category (I looked at the stat rankings for all QBs this year, and sorted by the big hitters (completion%, INTs, yards/game, yards, and rating)). And the list does include backups, so I made sure there were starters worse than him for each category), when it was close (rating, for example).

I quickly looked at NFL.com tables, on the 'by position' tab.

Baker has been bad, but not the worst.

You guys could at least try to look up facts when trolling.

Officially/stat-wise, it's not true....

But I think we knew that already.

2nd to worst?

3rd to worst?

Does it matter?

He's been awful. Doesn't play winning football.

Replace the word "shine" with the word "succeed" and your entire post takes on a whole new meaning. "Shine" implies that it's about ego, image, or popularity... "Succeed" implies that it's about winning....

Every team, every single one, builds the offense and selects the coaches to put the offense in a position to succeed. The only way an offense succeeds in 2019 is for the QB to succeed.

If that's the case I highly question John Dorsey, because hiring Freddie Kitchens is clearly the opposite of that position. Keeping him for next year, is even an even more glaring failure on his part should it happen.

I didn't say they were all successful, I just said that is what they all TRY to do. I think the hiring of Freddie was specifically about keeping continuity with Baker.

Remember the conversation during the search on here.. a lot of people (myself included) were very pro-keeping Gregg Williams and making Freddie the OC.. but the general fear was that we would quickly lose Freddie to somebody else and have to find somebody who could have that "chemistry" with Baker. Boy how those opinions have changed.

They could have kept it by making Freddie the OC and growing into the role. IDK how much water that theory holds to be honest. I think it has more to do with JD wanting a Coach that wasn't going to test his power, and conform to him. JMO though, based on things I have heard and opinions that have been shared.

I have heard the same rumors and opinions but not sure I buy it. I doubt we will ever know for sure.. well, I guess if Freddie gets canned and he brings in another "nobody" instead of a guy who has a reputation and is proven in either the NFL or college... that would go a long way to letting us know.

Having two picks in the second round (just two picks apart) Dorsey chose Austin Corbett over Nick Chubb.

And to think people made fun of the Osweiler trade.

In hindsight that looks stupid but Chubb had come off a pretty serious knee injury...

The Ravens took TE Hayden Hurst multiple picks ahead of Lamar Jackson.. Hurst doesn't start and has 38 catches for less than 400 yards this year... but people think they are personnel geniuses... sometimes it just works out that way.

It especially doesn't hold true if you look at the circumstances. All one has to do is look at Baker the first half of the season compared to the second half of the season last year. Trying to keep that momentum going made all of the sense in the world. I was one who advocated that you put Freddie at OC and keep Williams for the discipline and experience at least at the coordinator position. It seemed like a better structure to me.

But rather than look at the obvious of trying to keep Baker on the trajectory he was moving in under Freddie last year, a disgruntled fan base must reach for some far fetched conclusion with zero basis.

It hasn't worked out but the plan was obvious from the start.

So, Chubb has 1453 yards with one game to go. He’s got CMC trailing at 1361. I think Chubb is gonna need a 100 yard game next Sunday to secure the rushing title.

Sucks because he has 277 yards receiving, and had he got more touches, maybe could’ve cracked that 2k mark for total yards. Right now he’s at 1730 total, which is amazing by the way.

But my guy Christian McCaffrey....man, what a player. Dude is at 933 receiving yards, and only needs 67 yards to have over 1000 yards rushing and a 1000 yards receiving in the same season. So freaking crazy.

CMC is probabaly the best all around back in the league. From a pure running standpoint, I take our guy Chubb over him. And I take Chubb over Dalvin cook as well. So glad Dorsey got this pick right!

I don't think he needs that many yards.

if he gets 58 yards this week CMC has to run for 150. They play the saints, who I believe are still fighting for Home field unless im mistaken, so they I could see them getting down early and needing to throw against them.

Yeah, and Corbett is the Rams starting LG.
I thought for sure the pick was going to be Chubb, and thought to myself ... watch someone will take him off the board between our two selections.

We lucked out!

I look for him to have another big game against that Cincinnati defense.

For what it's worth, this game really doesn't mean much.. So, give Nick the ball every chance you get. Make sure he ends up being the rushing leader this season. That young man deserves it more than anyone.

I think we will do both .. get Chubb the rushing title and get Beckham to 1000 yds receiving.

I say play to win the game and who cares about personal stats/accolades.

The difference in draft position between 6-10 and 7-9 won't be worth much. Bengals have already clinched the first overall pick. Going for personal stat milestones is the antithesis of what the Browns need going forward-- a team-first mentality.

Mainly though, the Browns should never lose to the Bengals. The Ravens and Steelers you can understand losing to from time to time, they are good teams, but not the Bengals.

We tried to do it, but it wasn't working.

Establish the passing game, unclutter the box, get the lead and then give the rock to Chubb.

Landry and OBJ were in single coverage and we didn't target them in the first half...

Nick deserved better.

https://923thefan.radio.com/articles/nick-chubb-loses-2019-nfl-rushing-title-to-derrick-henry

Chubb got just 13 carries and 41 yards in 33-23 loss to Bengals

DARYL RUITER
DECEMBER 29, 2019 - 7:23 PM

CATEGORIES: NFL Browns
CINCINNATI, Ohio (92.3 The Fan) – The offensive coaching brilliance of Freddie Kitchens cost Nick Chubb the 2019 NFL rushing title.

Kitchens, in his infinite wisdom, ran Chubb just 13 times in soggy Cincinnati, against the worst run defense in the league, netting the back 41 yards opening the door for Tennessee Titans running back Derrick Henry to blow by him.

Henry, who began the day needing 166 yards to pass Chubb, carried it 32 times for the playoff bound Tennessee Titans for 211 yards and three touchdowns in their 35-14 win over the Houston Texans.

Chubb finished the season with 1,494 yards for the season, the fourth-best rushing total in Browns history. Hall of Famer Jim Brown holds the top three spots in those rankings.

Leroy Kelley was the last Brown to win an NFL rushing title in 1968.

Just 13 times against the worst rushing defense and probably cost him the title. Good grief, Freddie...

And in case you didn't notice, and clearly FK didn't, our 2 big play TD's early in the game both came on play action passes. Ply action becomes a lot less effective when the D nows you aren't going to run the ball.

Feel bad for Chubb...

Chubb won't be fazed by this.

He hasn't had 20 or more carries in a game since we played Miami.

That's 2x freddie screwed Chubb out of bonus money. The good news is... it's the last time.

Freddie was fool for not using Chubb more in the last two games but to be honest.. the blocking SUCKED today and Chubb was getting stuffed on almost every play. He would have had to have 35-40 carries to retain the rushing lead. They were stacking (crushing) the box and we couldn't take advantage of it enough.

He paid the ultimate price.

What a snub. Some blocking tackles and aggressive play calling would help. run him somewhere beyond the center. This is a stain on FK. Chubb deserved to be part of the solution AND to win his title today for the lousy offense we chose instead. Chubb could have gotten some of this today. FK always seemed to have us behind the chains.

I find this inexcusable. Chubb deserved better, whether he handles it better than most or not; quietly or not. My hat is off to Chubb for a phenomenal year of effort, and for what he managed in spite of a dunce calling plays. He could be so much more.

FA better be good to us.

I agree, Chubb only had 28 carries the past two games.

Henry had 32 today, not to take away from his accomplishments ... but clearly Freddie did not care to help him reach that accomplishment.

Yeah, we’ve heard talk before

Kitchens killed any chance of Chubb winning the title with his playcalling in the final three games.

What title?

The poorly named rushing 'title'.

I propose we stop using that name and say "led the league in rushing yards" instead.

There's no title or championship involved in having the highest personal stats in a category.

Yea...Chubb should’ve won the rushing title if it weren’t for Freddie.

Makes no difference to me. Now if you want to say he should have gotten more carries as that would have given the Browns a better chance to win, that's different.

Leading the league in x category just doesn't translate very well in the NFL. There's too much going on, other players affect performances, there's usage vs efficiency, and so on. Look at the passing yards leader-- Jameis Winston with 5,109. Just don't forget about the 30 interceptions and 7-9 record.

The actual rushing 'champion', Derrick Henry, didn't even play the second to last week of the season on a coaching decision. The way the tie-breakers worked, it was really week 17 that mattered to the Titans.

Umm, I think everybody was rooting for Chubb to get the title as a moral victory to an otherwise trash ass season. Just like getting obj 1000 yards or something like that.

Also, giving Chubb more carries absolutely gives us the best chance to win, so it’s effectively killing two birds with one stone.

I don’t understand why you’re pushing back on fans wanting the highest character guy on our team to get the rushing title since we had nothing else to play for. Kinda odd.

For the record, I've been a huge fan of Nick's for longer than many others have. Read this thread if you need confirmation: https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1593360/chubb-or-hunt#Post1593360

It's just that whether he finished with 1,494 yards or maybe could have gotten >1,540 yards with heavier usage from our lame duck coach just doesn't really matter.

I actually think we could have used Hunt more down the stretch (pushing Chubb's numbers down), just to divvy up the workload more and extend Chubb's career.

Backs who get 300+ carries a year usually don't last long in this league.

To me, gunning for personal stats is not a moral victory. I actually think it's the opposite of what this team needs.

If giving Chubb more carries gave us the best chance to win, that's a reasonable point. I didn't watch much of the Bengals game honestly, like you said-- trash season, and I didn't care to watch much of the Browns lose to the 1-14 Bengals. But if it was all about winning the game, why does everybody keep bringing up the rushing title as if it's so important?

I agree that Chubb is a high character guy, I've said that repeatedly and have thought that he has been one of the best backs in the league going back to last season. I still do not care about leading the league in a personal stat.. what is odd about that?

Again, because it’s good to have a player on the team you root for lead the league in something good, like rushing yards.

It’s not anything deeper than that. It’s really that simple. We had nothing to play for, no playoffs, no spoiler, or anything. Just pride. So why not try to get your guy the rushing title, since it ALSO gives you the best chance to win the last game of the season by giving him carries?

This isn’t calculus.

Already said what I wanted to say.

I just don't want to hear you say that stats don't matter in the future, that it's all about winning games. Because clearly the stats do matter, it's more a matter of when and how much they matter.

As far as calculus, I'd rather do that than continue this silly debate.

Great job captain obvious.



That’s how I feel about the majority of our interactions.

just clickin'

https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/nfl/...e1-24bcf07e2701


This is one of the things that makes Nick special. He talks about winning, using this season as motivation, how bad it feels to lose games. Learn from past mistakes, come in with a different mindset, fix the small things. Every play matters. Gives a shoutout to the fans. Nothing about personal stats and accolades.

We need more players like Chubb on this team. That's when we will start to win more games than we lose.

j/c

Yeah, it's all Freddie's fault Derrick Henry rushed for 211 yards. I mean we all saw that one coming.

I'll put it another way.

As you say, individual awards mean very little. Chubb even said the same. Even taking that into account, the rushing title was the only thing of consequence going on during our last game. We were eliminated from the playoffs and set at 3rd in the AFCN. Cinci locked up pick#1 already. There was literally nothing else to play for other than the rushing title going to Chubb, and others (OBJ) hitting stat milestones.

So as unimportant as it may have been, it was the most significant thing going on in that game.

I understand the argument you are making as well as the thought process. I just don't agree with it. When I say that personal stats don't matter, and that we should think more in terms of the team-- Those aren't just empty words; I actually mean it.

There's a lot that goes into rushing yards to begin with. If we're going to judge a running back, let's not do it based on rushing yards (which is heavily influenced by number of carries, offensive line, scheme, etc.) but something that encompasses more of a running back's performance, including in the passing game. For example, I posted numerous times how Chubb was PFF's #1 rated back last year. This is based on grading every play, even the boring stuff like blocking or catching a dump off pass.

He has an elite PFF grade again this year though they have changed their system and position rankings are no longer free/public info (does anybody have a membership?) This means more to me than something as narrow as number of rushing yards. That's an archaic measure of a running back's performance and I still don't think the rushing "title" is a fitting name at all.

For anybody who skipped over all of the above, I do not care about who has how many rushing yards.

Right? I thought Chubb had it locked.

Chubb was 28 - 86 the last two games, no "chunk" runs, and to my eye was looking a bit worn. Nobody saw that coming from Henry as his previous two games looked a lot like Chubb's last two.

Fair enough. I understand what you're saying.

I agree with what you say about using another metric other than yards to judge a RB, but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the rushing title, which is total yards.

Other than that nitpick, I agree with what you say.

Posting again to make clear I didn't skip this part. Allegedly, players were miffed at his non usage leaving to bring overtaken by Henry. You may (or may not, can't be sure) be more lonely than you think with your opinion.

Not saying you're wrong, just trying to further/better explain my view.

You have done a good job explaining your view. I appreciate it.

I already know I'm (mostly) alone in my thinking-- reading through this thread made that abundantly clear.

I do wonder which players were miffed that Chubb didn't enough carries down the stretch. Was it the same players who were so unprepared/unprofessional that they couldn't learn the offense enough to even get lined up in the right spot consistently?

You're certainly not alone in your opinion.

He is awesome. This is one guy that I hope plays his whole career as a Brown.

Chubb is a freaking stud ... and Burns is right: this ZBS fits him to a T

Only thing I'm worried about for next year...is he going to be as comfortable running with a fullback?

Nick couldn't be more different from Barry Sanders as a runner but his style is still beautiful. The decisiveness of his cuts is surgical. His ability to navigate angles in small spaces is highly developed. His vision, power, and speed are all first class. Perfect RB for a run first, natural turf, outdoor football team.

I do think Chubb will be a good fit for the ZBS. He has that ability to stick his foot in the ground and make a decisive and explosive cut.

Of course. It would be no different than Hunt being his lead blocker.

I don't think it will be a problem. Here's why. Nick already shows great patience pressing the LOS. Also, the FB in Stefanski's scheme is not always in a traditional I formation. Expect the FB to be aligned similar to Juszczyk is used in SF (damn, that's as hard to spell as it is to pronounce).

You should not worry about Chubb one bit.

Georgia ran a pro-style offense and used a lot of FB.

I agree ... chubb is not anywhere near my worry list lol

Btw, great sig!!

Thanks!

Thank you for the info! I figured he'd be fine, but just didn't know how much experience he had with a fullback.

Some really good film breakdown of Nick Chubb
2 hrs long for your enjoyment

https://youtu.be/k_YZZ7RIxHQ

Very interesting. My son told me about a deep dive into Nick Chubb and why he would be the next 2k runner.

A lot goes on in a runner's decisions from play design and what actually takes place post snap.

Chubb is so efficient no waste in his style. He has everything you look for in a runner.

This coming season should be real interesting with the add a fullback and more two TE sets incorporated into a ZBS.

I like how they showed him running agaist stacked boxs and yet still being effective, even with some leaky line play (that improved somewhat with Wyatt) ... which in the process showed the ineptitude of Freddie's offense.

Our offense should (needs) be able to make teams pay in the passing game whenever they are stacking the box on us.

I think getting them out of that stacked box, in combination with a revamped OL and the ZBS will only offer Chubb and others better opportunities to break off some long runs.

Last year RG was musical chairs. Who was going to hold the job?

Hubbard IMO was a swinging gate in pass protection and adequate in the run game.

Robinson at LT was inconsistent and was flagged often.

We have a very good OL coach in Callahan. The revamped OL will need some time to gel. Practice with the virus may be a challenge. But every team will face that challenge.

One would think having Hunt all season and the emphasis on running will help Nick. Not that he needs much help.

I would think offensively the team will improve.

How the ball will be spread around will be interesting the Browns will have many options.

A few thoughts:

--I think Nick Chubb will be very good in a ZBS. I think he has that ability to put a foot in the ground and take off. That is what you want in your RB behind a ZBS OL.

--Nick Chubb is my favorite player on the team and I rarely have favorite players. He just seems like such a good dude.

--I do not think Chubb is a good short-yardage/goal line runner. His weakness is that he runs too high. He is also a "read" runner. The latter thing is good most of the time, but not in short yardage situations.

--If I was the coach, I would put in Hunt in the short yardage and goal line situations. He runs a lot lower and is more decisive in his decisions.

--I think the Browns are in a great situation at RB. Thanks Dorsey. You might not have dressed the part, but you sure knew how to acquire talent!

I agree 100% with all those points. I don't understand why Chubb isn't a better goal line/short yardage back. I think he is too cerebral a runner. Takes his time and is patient then takes off when the hole open. But on the goal line and in short yardage situations you need to just put your head down and crash into the pile. Hunt seems to do that well. Chubb doesn't. Just my supposition. I don't know the answer.

I think you nailed half of it. The other half is that he is an upright runner.

Love the dude. Just not a great short=yardage runner. That's okay. Hunt can fill that role.

Some excellent points. Chubb no doubt is a read runner. He waits, finds his opening, then goes for it. His vision is phenomenal. He is going full speed but it is like he sees things playing out in slow motion.

I also agree on short yardage and goal line situations. He isn't the best at simply hitting the designed hole for the above mentioned reasons.

Just a general impression, but it seems like Chubbs TDs are from 10 yards and out. Things close up once at the 10
Not much to read in that area.

I agree, Hunt due to his lower center of gravity is a better option for hitting it straight in to the line.

Take a look at one of the UDFA's we sighed. Benny LeMay. I think the kid is 5'8" and 225. Pretty stout kid. He played at Charlotte. Will Healy is the head coach. Will and my son played football and baseball together. Will Healy. He is going places in the coaching world. Started as a asst. coach here in Chattanooga. Took the head job at Austin Peay. 2 wins in 4 years, Will took them to 8-4 his first year. Yep, Will is on his way to the SEC for sure.

Sorry for the tangent.

Benny could become a pretty solid goal line guy. You will remember, he reminds me of that old Baltimore Colts runner Don Knottingham. The human bowling ball.

I would love to get a reliable goal-line back to take those hits off of our main guys.

I disagree with both of your points.

Chubb runs with good body lean and he has scored TDs' on the Goal line where there is no hole.

If there is a hole where the play is designed to be, then he will utilize it, but if not he will search with his great vision for another option, and its not like he has much time to make up his mind.

His stats bear this out from college to the pros.


Lousy OL play is not Chubbs fault.

I know RBs. Trust me on that one.

Would have to agree with Vers on this one. Chubb just hasn't exhibited the "get low, battering ram" style that will put you over the goal line.

Against Buffalo last year he had FIVE cracks at pay-dirt from the 1 yard line... in one series... -1, 1, 0, 0, -2

Our Oline was much maligned last season. They weren't very good, but overall they really weren't all that bad. Oddly, their run-blocking in short yardage seemed (to these eyes) to be weak.

If nothing else, we'll see this year. We've loaded up on talent in a way that I didn't think we would/could.

Yeah, the run blocking was awful last year. According to PFF, our pass blocking was average, but the run blocking was near the bottom.

I also want to clarify that I love Chubb as a runner. I just don't think short yardage running is one of his better attributes.

Give me a break here fellas.

There is almost 2 hrs of Chubb successfully running against a stacked box in the video breakdown ... but you say that he isn't a good GL RB.

Excuse me! But that is just nonsensical.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a RB with bettor vision than Nick ... he always goes the right way at the right time ...

Am i seeing things or do u notice that also?

I do too, thats why Chubb was my top RB in the Draft two years ago.

I think he has very good vision. He is a very patient runner who uses his vision to help him break off long runs. It's not as dramatic, but it's similar to Bell's patience and vision.

It's also been a long time since I have seen RB's shed arm tackles with as much ease as Chubb. You are absolutely not getting him on the ground by flailing at him.

There is not another RB in the NFL that I would Trade Chubb for ...

Perfect.

really, I probably wouldn’t either ... especially for the price now

Might as well show his top ten while at Georgia. Only one patsy opponent.

If we extend Chubb a year from now it will look something like the above contract.

Or this:

That’s a LOT of catch for a RB

I'm somewhat skeptical that they both play those all the way out. I wonder when/how the teams have outs built in.

the only thing that matters is how much is guaranteed.

Not just "guaranteed", but really guaranteed at signing, which is different. A lot of the guaranteed numbers reported are actually just for (career ending) injury. Could still be cut for declining performance, "change of (team) direction", etc and not get paid those injury guarantees if able to play.

I did not know that. I didn’t know there were guarantees that have asterisks.

Nick Chubb is on pace to become the third NFL player in the last 40 years to finish a season with at least 100 rushing yards per game and at least 6 yards per carry (min. 5 games played). The previous 2: Adrian Peterson in 2012 and Barry Sanders in 1997.

https://twitter.com/Gil_Brandt/status/1333483801087905793

Only one running back in NFL history finished his career averaging over 100 yards per game.

Jim Brown.

Nick Chubb's last 2 seasons - 96.2

Would be able to include all 3 years if not for Huecifer Jackson

https://twitter.com/_PeteSmith_/status/1333486085654056966

This is a shocking stat. Knew he was great, but not that he was in that neighborhood. Want to see more soon. I think line can improve, so this should get better for Chubb as well. And I like Hunt as well. Hope we manage to get them together out there like had with Mack-Byner.
They need to play hard for each other, but they are doing that already.

"Huecifer Jackson"

Happy birthday, Fate!

That was hysterical! Really made me chuckle. Instant meme. It does insult the devil some.

Happy Birthday Fate!

Is Carlos Hyde available?

He’s a Seahawk.

Thanks guys!

Nick Chubb since entering the NFL:
92.1 PFF rushing grade (1st)
4.1 yds after contact per carry (1st)
141 broken tackles on runs (2nd)

https://twitter.com/PFF/status/1334486550252544000

Nick Chubb nominated for Art Rooney Sportsmanship Award for 2nd straight year
Browns RB continues to impress his coaches and teammates
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/nic...d-straight-year


There's more to Nick Chubb than yards and touchdowns.

Ask the third-year running back's coaches and teammates, and you'll quickly learn how much Chubb is respected for the way he carries himself and treats others on and off the field.

That's why, for the second straight year, Chubb has earned the Browns' nomination for the NFL's Art Rooney Sportsmanship Award. The award is presented each year to an NFL player who best demonstrates the qualities of on-field sportsmanship, including fair play, respect for the game and opponents, and integrity in competition.

The 32 finalists -- one from each team -- will be whittled down to eight (four from the AFC and four from the NFC) and placed on the players' Pro Bowl ballot under the NFL Sportsmanship Award category. The players' top choice will be honored during the NFL Honors Show. The winner will receive a $25,000 donation from the NFL Foundation to a charity of his choice.

Browns Star Rises: Nick Chubb's Batman fandom has origin story centered on inspiration
Nate Ulrich
https://www.beaconjournal.com/story/spor...nfl/3944106001/


About a week after Nick Chubb's left knee had been blown out on Oct. 10, 2015, he watched scenes from “The Dark Knight Rises” on his smartphone during a break from rehabilitating at the University of Georgia.

The star running back typed “Batman gets his back broken by Bane” into the search field on YouTube.

Chubb felt a connection to the 2012 movie when supervillain Bane tells Batman, “Victory has defeated you,” in the early stages of their first battle.

“I remember I was like on top of the world, coming off a good [freshman] season, feeling myself, doing good in everything, and he said that, and I feel like he was talking to me,” Chubb said.

The encounter ends with Bane lifting a beaten Batman and breaking the superhero's back over his right leg.

“I felt like my knee was broken in every piece, too,” Chubb said.

Cleveland Browns:Nick Chubb hopes he and Kareem Hunt can be another Browns dynamic duo

Then Bruce Wayne finds himself in Bane's prison known as “The Pit.” Wayne spends months recovering and training, and after several failed escape attempts, he completes a treacherous climb, rising from the “The Pit,” so he can return to Gotham City and his life as Batman.

“I felt like that wall was what I went through getting out of rehab,” Chubb said. “I had to get up the wall and get free and get back to myself. All that just was so relatable to me during that time.

“I kind of used that as motivation to keep me up and keep me going because of how he came back from that. That's how I attacked my rehab and my recovery from my injury.”

Chubb had seen the film before, but the iconic fight between Tom Hardy's Bane and Christian Bale's Batman and Wayne's subsequent ascent didn't become an obsession until the player embarked on a comeback from the gruesome injury he suffered as a sophomore against the University of Tennessee.

“The next time I watched it after that,” Chubb said, “I was hanging on every word, really into it, listening to everything.”

With Batman inspiring Chubb, he rebounded from three of the four ligaments in his left knee shredding, all but the anterior cruciate ligament, and the surgery he needed as a result. He returned to action in time for the 2016 opener, flourished in his final collegiate season in 2017 and became a second-round draft pick (No. 35 overall) of the Browns in 2018.

Nick Chubb takes on Gotham
In the buildup to the Browns playing consecutive games against the New York Giants and New York Jets in Gotham — OK, East Rutherford, New Jersey, but play along here — Chubb spoke to the Beacon Journal by phone for 15 minutes on Dec. 17 about his Batman fandom.

Chubb rushed 15 times for 50 yards and a touchdown, his 10th of the season, in Sunday night's 20-6 win over the Giants. The Browns (10-4) will be knocking on the door to the playoffs when they return to MetLife Stadium and face the Jets (1-13) on Sunday, Chubb's 25th birthday.

Cleveland Browns football:Baker Mayfield stays hot, Browns defeat Giants 20-6

You can bet Chubb's gifts will include some Batman items from his family.

When Browns communications coordinator Mike Annarella informed Chubb of a Batman-centric interview request and relayed a message about the Gotham angle, Chubb realized Annarella didn't know Gotham is a fictitious version of New York in the Batman universe. Waiting on deck for a Zoom session with local media, Chubb whispered an explanation to Annarella while quarterback Baker Mayfield fielded questions from reporters nearby.

Yes, Chubb is a man of few words, but he enjoys talking about Batman.

Right tackle Jack Conklin revealed a few weeks ago he occasionally chats with Chubb about Batman in an attempt to lure the two-time Pro Bowl selection out of his shell. Chubb has also bonded with offensive lineman Chris Hubbard and practice-squad fullback Johnny Stanton over their affinity for the Caped Crusader.

Chubb considers Stanton the locker room's top Batman expert because he is well-versed in comic books. Stanton has given Chubb plenty of reading recommendations.

“He gets excited,” Stanton said by phone. “He's very curious about it.”

Batman vs. Superman
Chubb took a liking to DC Comics superheroes in high school when he and friends played the Injustice video games on PlayStation 4.

At first, Batman wasn't actually Chubb's favorite character.

“I was a Superman fan because honestly I didn't know any better,” he said. “I just know what I saw. He was flashy. He could fly. He had super strength and all that stuff. My friends were into it, too. Growing up, we'd always argue Superman versus Batman, and I'd always have Superman's side. But they brought to my attention why Batman was better, and I kind of flipped sides, joining them.”

So why is Batman the best superhero?

“He's human just like us, and if you were indestructible like Superman, would you fear anything? No, you wouldn't. If you know you can't die, you wouldn't fear anything,” Chubb said. “But Batman, we can die, we're mortal, and he still stands up and faces any challenge. He's just a man, but he has courage.”

Chubb explained his allegiance to Batman “really took off” shortly after he suffered the devastating knee injury five years ago in Knoxville, Tennessee.

“A lot of players have to deal with injuries, but the fact that Nick was able to come back from something so hard and to be able to use that as inspiration is pretty cool,” Stanton said. “I'm sure movie creators would love to be able to hear something like that.”

Chubb hasn't dabbled much in Batman movies and TV shows predating this century. “The Dark Knight Trilogy” directed by Christopher Nolan and starring Bale as Batman is Chubb's bread and butter, though he also watches animated films made in the past decade.

As far as Batman memorabilia goes, Chubb doesn't own countless comic books and action figures. However, the contents of his wardrobe and garage aren't coincidences. He wears a silver Batman symbol on a chain necklace, a Christmas gift he received during his rookie season from his mother, Lavelle. He said he dons black clothing on a regular basis and has matte black cars — a Mercedes-AMG and a Dodge Charger — with tinted windows because of Batman.

Chubb has even thought about buying a Batmobile one day.

“It would be either when I'm done with football or sometime in the offseason when I'm just feeling spontaneous,” he said.

'It would only be Batman'
Chubb doesn't have any tattoos, but if he gets one, you can guess what the theme would be.

“If I ever got a tattoo,” he said, “it would only be Batman — 100%. I've thought about it, but I don't know if it would be cool or corny. It would probably be in-between, so I don't know if I'll get it.”

Hubbard has a Batman tattoo on one of his legs, and Chubb thinks it turned out well.

“But if I'm getting it,” Chubb said, “I'm getting it right on my chest, like him gliding down, big — everybody can see it.”

All of this raises the following question: Has Chubb ever dressed as Batman?

“Yeah, I have. Yeah, of course,” he said with a laugh. “My junior year of college, I was Batman for a Halloween party.”

The Browns have had fun with this, too, mostly by following Chubb's lead on social media.

After Chubb suffered a sprained medial collateral ligament in his right knee on Oct. 4 against the Dallas Cowboys, he wrote on Instagram, “Thanks for all the prayers and wishes. I'll be back soon enough. To the bat cave until then.” Don't worry — he included a bat emoji at the end of the message.

When the Browns designated Chubb to return from injured reserve on Nov. 9, the team tweeted an animated GIF of a football player standing atop FirstEnergy Stadium as a Bat-Signal of sorts featuring Chubb's face shone in the night sky.



Chubb's favorite Batman quote is, “I'm whatever Gotham needs me to be.” Last year, he tweaked the famous line from “The Dark Knight” and wrote on Instagram, “I'm whatever Cleveland needs me to be.” The caption accompanied a photograph of Chubb in his Browns uniform.

If Batman were to play football, Chubb said he would be a running back with a hell of a stiff-arm.

“He would have everything,” Chubb said. “Full-balanced running back.”

He probably would even resist the temptation to score a touchdown and instead run out of bounds at the 1-yard line if it ensured he would save Gotham.

“Yeah,” Chubb said without hesitation, “Batman doesn't kill.”

Inside the Batcave with Nick Chubb

Favorite Batman: Christian Bale

Favorite movie: “Probably 'The Dark Knight Rises.'”

Favorite villain: “The Joker. He's always one step ahead. He's super smart, intelligent, and I just like him. He's tricky.”

Thoughts on Robert Pattinson in “The Batman” (2022): “Pattinson is skinny, and Batman's more on the bulky side. He might have to gain weight or something, but I feel like it'll be good.”

Nate Ulrich can be reached at nulrich@thebeaconjournal.com.

Browns at Jets

Time: 1 p.m. Sunday

TV: CBS (Channel 19)

Cool story. Chubb is such an easy guy to like.

I'll never forgive this team if they let him walk and decide not to pay him because "he's a RB".

Chubb isn’t going anywhere. He’s one of the best - you could argue THE best - at his position.

Just a Nick Chubb Appreciation Tweet

931 Rushing Yards (6th)
10 Rush TDs (T-4th)
93.1 Yds/Gm (3rd)
5.6 Yds/Att (1st)
11 Big Plays (2nd)
Browns have 8-2 record when Chubb plays

Imagine if he didn't miss 4 games due to injury

I understand what you mean about him missing four games and the impact his presence would have made. That certainly would have been our best case scenario.

At the same time, being a 1000 yard rusher sort of lost it's importance when the league expanded it's season to 16 games. It meant so much more when a RB reached 1000 yards in a 12 game season. It's why ranking RB's based on all yards gained in a season is so unfair to those like Jim Browns who played only in 12 game seasons.

This year we will get to see Chubb surpass the 1000 yard measuring stick in 12 games.

If you apply 1000 yards to a 16 game season the ratio would be about 1300- 1350 yards to what it would have meant in a 12 game season.

j/c

I just gonna leave this here...

Landry was looking for a penalty to add to the celebration

Is Chubb going to have very many yards this year? I know he missed some games.

That's freaking amazing right there. THAT is how good our RB Room is.

I hope that Ski learns to trust it more this coming season .

When you have talent all over the field you use a balanced approach. You sometimes tweak your game plan in one direction or the other based on your opponents weakness. Before the season began last year many talked about what a run heavy team we would be. I never bought into that. Being predictable is not an attribute.

Being predictable is definitely one way to describe it. Another way would be "you know what we're going to do, but it won't matter because you still can't stop us".

I understand that when your team is being built in one way. In business, you use your assets. Why would you become a run heavy team when you have Baker, our TE's, OBJ, Landry and a guy like Higgins who has a great chemistry with Baker?

We have been built as a team who has wonderful investments in both the passing and running game. We weren't built to be one dimensional.

I am not sure why you think Stef doesn't trust it...and I think we ran when we needed to run

Everyone has an opinion ; I am no different . With our line and Backs I believe he could have run more .. Period ! May I suggest all you short memory Dawgs go back and read MANY a post from Dawgs asking for the same thing in post game comments.

I will admit that I found myself frequently lamenting our perceived lack of rushing attempts only to go back to the postgame stats and see (more often than not) Chubb had reached his 20 touches for 100 yards.

The game that caught my attention was the game Ski didn't call.

Oh I did read them. I just had no idea why people thought we had Baker, just signed Hooper, had OBJ and Landry on the roster only to have a run happy offense.

That's the waste of a lot of cap space.

I will say I thought AVP called an excellent game. Stefanski seems to be more of the Shanahan type where he draws up a lot of different plays out of the same look to confuse the defense. More of a chess player, so to speak. The criticism of that is that sometimes those playcallers outthink themselves.

AVP, on the other hand, I don't think could strategize or game plan on the grand scale the way Stefanski does, but holy cow, he did not outthink anything. He saw them go down to their 3rd string OLB and basically said, over and over, let's pull Teller on him and just keep pushing on that pressure point.

Sure enough, it worked.

To me, it seems obvious that running the ball is the foundation of our offense. In my mind that's not the same thing as being "run-heavy". R-H is being sub-par in passing the ball. Baker is actually more effective if he isn't forced to sling it 30 plus times per game. Being able to execute play-action and roll Baker out gives us opportunities for explosive plays in the passing game. Both of those elements in our passing scheme are more effective because of the ability of the team to run the ball. We are still an AFCN team and the identity of our team should be physical and being physical means being able to impose our will in the run game. The pendulum has moved ( not swung excessively) toward running the ball in the league as a whole with backs like Henry, Aaron Jones, Cook, Kamara, and McCaffery, not to mention our own Dynamic Dawg Duo.

You think the pendulum has swung to running the ball?

I think our foundation is more being able to Run or Pass at will. We are whomever we need to be against any given opponent with the goal of getting them on their heels enough that we can dictate a balanced offensive approach that keeps them guessing and struggling to account for everything.

Chubb is a beast I wouldn't trade him for anyone or anything ... Get the deal done Berry

I will leave to carry on the discussion ; good luck ..lol

Nick Chubb - My favorite football player.

It sounds like you are scolding me and I am not sure why.

I don't think we shied away from running the ball. The stats I just looked up showed we ran the ball 495 times and passed the ball 501 times. Over a season that is as close to balance as we can get IMO.

How many more times should we have run the ball?

Ya cant have any puddin until you eat your meat ...HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDIN IF YOU DONT EAT YOUR MEAT!

I think this differentiation (run-heavy vs run-based) is a good one. Seems obvious, but not something I specifically thought about or saw mentioned earlier.

Even still, I would like to see Hunt get more touches. Chubb will get his, and Hunt tends to be overshadowed. Dude got like 5 touches in the playoff game against his old team. That had to be tough for him, and I know I felt for him after the game. He's been a great team player since coming to Cle.

Good Mornin and Good grief .. I was not criticizing or scolding anyone .. Was voicing my opinion on what I thought I saw during some of the second half of the season games. Their where times when Ski was passing more and enjoying it less; lol .. He got pass happy ! I happen to think that Ski is a very creative play caller holding the rains of a Three Headed Monster / Chubb /Hunt and Johnson .. That's it in a nut shell ..

Now if you want to see the stupid , over the top , ridiculous side of the opinionated be ; We can talk about Joe Woods and his Defense .. That's when I gleefully go off hte deep end .

I think people, don't want to see the intangibles, some don't want to believe the intangibles.

Sure this quoted part may have been true for the early season 2020 Browns and part of the year before, but running is a luxuory, or a, an achievement.

Running the ball. pfft.
The Browns being able to run the ball at will, pfft.

Every single game the opponent wants to stop the run, and 9 out of 10 games the opponent is not a weak run defense, so;
what is different about the 2020 Browns, what are the intangibles.

Do you want to think it was just Chubb? Well what about Hunt?

Well that's part of it, but so is having 4 suitable, playable, tight ends.

So is having an Offensive line investment where 2, (biggest 2 additions, (titans, and crimson tide,) would take a backseat in experience to 5 of the other 6,
and Hubbard was probably the best on the field and he was an off the bench, injury filler.

And.
People also want to overlook how important OBJ, and, OBJ in a mix with Landry and others, were to the run game.

If running the ball was just about the Rb, and the coach, then the Browns would chose to lead the league in rush yards every single year.

It's not that easy,
Like a 7 year old saying "let's just move to disney world"

( I could propose the foundation of the whole year's success was based on the success of the offense.)
( And further break that down, to the foundation of the offenses' success was the percentage of success converting 3rd and long situations since Mayfield began as the quarterback)
(And I could be right on that.)

But there is also the intangible of Mayfields' success being helped by Chubb and the O-line being able to move defenses around like a bulldozer,

And then. ^

That only exists partly based on two other intangibles.
1. The Browns have 4 useable tight ends. - We should not overlook this because even in Carlson, they had a tight end who scored, onoccasion, - should not overlook this because-

it's been such a rare characteristic of the Browns, almost equally as rare as how often the Browns make the playoffs, in fact, it's been a rare characteristic for
each and every time the Browns made the playoffs since Kosar was throwing to Ozzie Newsome, the last time it wasn't. ( the, 4 useable tight ends, intangible, again is what I'm talking about.)

2. The other intangible, ... (this is tuff, for me to follow)

The 2nd intangible, that allows for the intangible of the Browns run game and OL the ability to bulldoze and impose their will on opponents' defenses---to help Baker and the passing game complete a higher percentage of 3rd and long situations;

Is the defenses' being forced to keep a safety back in coverage to stop OBJ, and

that is only existant, predicated on the intangible of OBJ being not the solo big threat at Wr, or even 1 of a duo, but
the combination of OBJ, Landry, and "others" ...
( Not including Hodge, or Natson, who lower this, in my opinion)

But the combination of 3, 3+, forcing defenses' to pull resources, or "keep" resources, back in the backfield to stop the threat of the passing game..

Because.
History and football has, long proven, that NFL level Safeties that only need to crowd the line of scrimmage and cheat up to stop the run game, are a dime a dozen, in real sense of the dime a dozen analogy. (and they're real good at getting the job done, stopping run games.)

..............
Isn't that what PrplPplEater just said?
Yes.
But, just because PrplPpEater said it, doesn't mean people "Get" it. Sometimes things have to be, d-r-a-w-n out in explanation for folks, (even the team), to really start to "get" it.

Some things are intangible, they just don't happen.

Just because some people put a great big flipping green tree in their house in the first part of December, doesn't make any sense as to why some people might, (just maybe), get some feelings of glee.

There are some intangibles, but when you put all some of the intangibles together, you might end up with some smiling faces.

But, (So); If a foundation were just a "decision" to run or pass at will. ........

Then just anybody, could put any ole tree, in any ole building, at any ole month of the year, and sit there in disdain if people don't rush to decorate it, in the middle of June! It's intangible.
----- (I didn't even mention Garrets' Pass Rush's contribution. -it never ends.

Me too, all time. He displaced the Tyler Rose for my all time favorite.

This is exactly what I believe as well. When the opposing defense shows it's trying to focus on either the run or the pass, we have the ability to do the opposite. There's no reason to force our hand when we have options. Really good options at both the pass and the run.

Nick Chubb is the best running back the Browns have had since Leroy Kelly. He may surpass Kelly if he stays healthy and continues his career as a Brown. He is a great runner and excellent blocker and a very nice receiver too. We couldn't ask for a better running back. Happily, we have another back that is equally talented. It is my belief that the Browns have the best backfield in the NFL. Hunt is a top ten back and Chubb is top five. This is a GREAT problem to have. In our division running the ball is VITAL. You build the base of running the ball and playing strong D. Everything else feeds off of that. We are successful when we can run the ball effectively and then hit the play-action pass. We should also remember that Stefanski didn't get to install his entire offense. It takes three years to install the complete WCO. Also, there were no offseason workouts and not preseason games to get it all together. Stefanski deserved coach of the year. He earned it.

I'm sure I can't be the only one that, when Chubb gets the ball, I expect a big gain. Doesn't happen every time of course, sometimes not until the 4th quarter, but the guy brings it every time.

Hunt is kinda the same.

And I guess up front the o line should get credit also.

One of the things I noticed was how opposing players treat him; no barking and jawing, no disrespect. They help him up, something you rarely see.

He doesn't blow his own horn, he plays for the team, and he treats everyone, players, coaches, reporters, with humility and respect. He doesn't taunt, he doesn't dance, he just plays the game to the best of his ability.

My sigline has the ultimate quote, "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." And he doesn't restrict that to football. In life, in everything he does, he's just trying to be the best Nick he can be. Love the guy!

Chubb Town!!!

You definitely aren't the only one. I don't know what the stats say but I feel like he has more 10+ yard TD runs when they hit the 20 yard line than he does goal line scores.

What's crazy too is how early in a run when you realize that its going to be a TD. I can't put my finger on it, but there's just something barely perceptible about him that you just know he's got the path to the endzone already mapped out.

Very Barry Sanders-esque

So, his very first NFL TD run, against Oakland, was like an 800 yarder. My friend and I were messaging during the game and I casually pointed out "Yeah, but he isn't going to do that all the time in the NFL".

Then, he broke another one for like 850 yards.
My friend just copied and pasted and sent back to me my quote "Yeah, but he isn't gonna do that all the time in the NFL".

And then he'd resend it every big TD run after that, even the following season, and now it's at the point where when I'm watching a game, if Chubb breaks a big one, I just speed-type that and send it to my buddy.


With the way Chubb runs, that one gets sent a LOT. Like every other game, it seems.

Agree. He always seems like he's ready to break a big one.

That is cool. Nothing like having an inside joke only you and your close friend get.

Sweetness

Like many, I want to sign Chubb to an extension. I get the feeling I may differ in that I do agree with the thinking that backs are made as much by others as anything they do.

A guy like D'Earnest Johnson looks like he could step in and do a really good job. He might not be as good, but he would be good enough.

What I am saying is I wouldn't look to sign him over 3 years and the money would have to fit. If not, trade him for what the market would pay and move on. I don't think I would ever sign a back and make him the highest paid player at the position. Good backs aren't that rare, especially with a plus O-line in front of them.

TRADE CHUBB

At the lower levels/tiers of performance, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but not when you get to a player of Chubb's abilities. There is so much of what he does that is purely all him and that cannot be so easily replaced.

Thinking you could swap in D'Ernest Johnson for Chubb and not have appreciable falloff is just a gross underestimation of just what a back like Chubb brings to the game. He is more than special; he truly is generational.

If you wanted to look at a breakdown, there are a ton of stats out there like yards after contact, or forced missed tackles, broken tackles, etc... that can be used to give a decent picture of just how much a running back does on their own, and I'm pretty sure that Nick is either the #1, or at least Top 3, in almost every one of those statistics. He is completely on another level from a player like Johnson that is JAG.

I don't totally disagree with you in theory. There's one thing that can't be accounted for by your theory that everyone contributes though. That's yards after contact.

Nick Chubb And Kareem Hunt Lead NFL In Yards After Contact

https://www.brownsnation.com/nick-chubb-and-kareem-hunt-lead-nfl-in-yards-after-contact/

To me this is the measurement of a RB that can not be attributed to the help of the OL or downfield blocking. It's what sets apart certain RB's from the pack.

seeing this many posts in the Chubb thread had me all concerned lol

At 12:02 last night I told my wife Baker was killed in a car crash

That's dark. Even for an April Fools' joke.

I saw a post on FB where someone said Baker was picked up for DUI. But to go with death? That's dark.

I am not saying Johnson would be as good. I said good enough.

I don't want him to go, and said so. I also said sign him if it works or trade him. People taking issue with that leads me to believe people think we need to sign him no matter the cost, and I don't agree with that.

Jim Brown

that is so great.

lmao

After all these years of reading, I suspect there has never been a player in the NFL, in history, no matter how well they wore a hall of fame jacket,
that if on the Browns you would support breaking the bank to keep the player on the team.

100% of all posts have been team is better off without em. At least it's a consistent message.

Sign him!

I say we trade him for a #1 in this years draft!!!

same here. He’s literally the perfect balanced RB

I hope your joking

I'm not really taking issue with what you're saying. I'm just saying that when the time comes for a new contract, we can't just say, "His contract should line up with other NFL RB's."

There are specific intangibles that he possesses that put him in the elite category. As such his contract can not be expected to line up with other RB's who do not possess that level of skills.

So I do expect his contract to be a little more than some may feel is appropriate. At that time I think the argument that it should fall in line with other RB contracts falls short. I'm certainly not saying there's no limit to it.

I'm just saying that if you expect it to fall in line with other RB contracts in order to re-sign him we may disagree.

Lets play a game... you can only keep 2

Baker
Myles
Chubb

I will figure a way too keep all three, other teams manipulate the cap so can we

You can only keep 2

Where there is a will there is a way

Life isnt fair pick!

Making up some hypothetical that doesn't exist isn't fair either. I mean if we're talking about being fair.

April fools one day late Pastor!!

How are we suppose to play football with only 2 players?

I guess in that case, I'd go Garrett and Chubb since Baker would have no one to throw to.

Let's hope Garrett can run-block and Chubb can tackle

what year is it? Chubb will be VERY good for the next 2-3 seasons. After that who knows.

Garrett probably has a little more shelf life.

Baker of course has much more, granted he continues to improve and stay healthy

I always ask this question to other Browns fans. “ you can only keep three. Baker, Chubb, Teller, or Ward?” Most say let Ward go. Considering Myles is signed for a bit, This is the question.

If good backs aren't all that rare then why haven't we had one in decades? But yeah, we don't want a great back here in Cleveland. We just want "good enough" which means 800 yards and a couple of touchdowns. *snicker* What a load of crap. You want to trade our best player so Baker can throw the ball 100 times a game. Ludicrous. Did you even watch last season? Chubb and Hunt were the engines that drove our offense. You really want Baker to be heaving it up 40 times a game? Especially, it November and December? Right now, we have the best running back room in our division and in my opinion in the entire league. That is something a team can build around. In OUR division you run the ball and you play great D. That wins in this division. What you don't do is trade away the best running back the Browns have had since Leroy Kelly!

I keep Baker and Chubb. If I can't then I keep Myles and Chubb. Chubb stays until he hits 30 or is damn close to it. Baker is still a slight bit iffy. Stick with him, of course. But Chubb is as sure a thing as one can get.

Sorry man, the load of crap is you saying I want to get rid of Chubb.

Teams don't trade #1 picks for a RB...they will hit FA. As for Chubb I would wish to sign him but not break the bank. Statistics say no. You would draft another RB in the 2nd round and they can step right in and we are in a unique position of having Hunt.

Man I really wish we can keep him to his 2nd contract!

So do I. I am just afraid that might not be possible.

Trade Hunt and release Keenum next year. The cap savings covers Chubb. Use the 3rd you get for Hunt to draft Chubb's new #2.

Done.

The cap increase covers Chubb; we don't have to do anything extreme to comfortably make a pay day happen for him.

We have the best RB room in the NFL why does everyone want to break it up? Besides Hunt Makes $3.5 Mil which is peanuts in the NFL

That's good news and should put those worries behind us...

Who wants to break it up?

I think he just took my post regarding this silly little exercise the wrong way.

Though if it did become a money issue in 2022, I would in fact trade Hunt to save his 6.25 million cap hit and cut Keenum to save another 6.5 million if we had to to fit in Chubb, just saying.

Baker and Myles.

It pains me to say this... RB's are a dime a dozen. QB and DE are not.

Sadly I have to agree, Chubb is probably my favorite Brown ever with his demeanor and work ethic. But RB's have short careers. I love Chubb by the way.

There is nothing about Chubb's demeanor or personality that tells me he is seeking to be the highest paid RB or wants to break the bank. I truly believe that if the Browns offer him a fair deal he'll take it. And by fair I mean not lowball, but not extreme, a deal that recognizes his value. Guys like Zeke have big egos and demand to be paid top salaries. With Nick, pay him well, and he'll stay with the team. (Or so I believe.)

I agree.

Nick is about as old school as a person can be.

You simply pay him, period. I don't get all the talk about Chubb, he is not replaceable nor is Hunt.

I don't see Nick wanting to break the bank. I think if the Browns make a good faith offer he will sign a new deal without a lot of trouble. He has earned his payday give it to him, and move on.

Everybody is replaceable.

Of course they are, but who is that going to be? This to me is a no brainer simply pay him and move on. I don't know where you get a player that plays harder is less of a headache and a stud. He is a package deal and I love the guy. I pay him and turn him loose.

He's a top 3 RB ... so sure we can replace him. What we can't do is replace him with a RB of the same ability.

peen might have a point, that Chubb is replaceable.

Late in the season, don't know what game it was, but Chubb ran to the left and the opponents defense rotated to close off the running lane, but Chubb planted his foot and cut back and ran for a nice gain..when it seemed there was nothing there.

A few plays later, the Browns ran the same play with Hunt running the ball and the defense again rotated well and stopped Hunt with small gain.

This proves Peen's point, that Chubb is replaceable but not necessarily with the same talent that Chubb brings to the Browns offense.

Chubb has "vision"...the ability to find a running lane that other RBs might not see.

I want Chubb. Beyond that, it seems like the Browns would be deciding what they are buying and what they are buying into as far as vision and scheme. Why get by with less if it is reasonably priced product (if any NFL pricing is 'reasonable' in any sense). Choosing to settle for less on what is in house just not for me. Lock him up.

If it's reasonable then yes we should sign him. JMO

No he is not right Chubb is the best running back sense Leroy Kelley I will tell you how to pay for Chubb you draft a starting guard and get rid off the veteran lineman.

j/c

A lesser RB cuts down on what we have. A prolific running game. What this does is allow your opponents to place less focus on your running game and more on your passing game. A lesser RB places a negative impact on not only your running production, but your passing game as well.

It's a lose/lose proposition.

I have said that, but as usual, the usual suspects do their thing.

Chubb Ain't going anywhere !!!!!!

Why'nt you Go Root For the Steelers since you seem to hate the Browns so much!

Dude you have issues

Go back and read your gameday posts... smh...

j/c...

There is a 53 man roster, the Browns don't have to chose any 2, they can keep all 3.

Oh I see you have the whole catalog

That was just ill af.

Running backs are a dime a dozen? That is the silliest thing I have even heard. If running backs are so easy to find, why haven't we had one in DECADES? But hey, lets get rid of Chubb and Hunt and let Baker stand in the pocket and throw the ball 50+ times a game. That would work out just great. *snicker* Dime a dozen? lmmfao

True, but these guys don't WANT a prolific running game. They want Baker in the shotgun throwing the ball 50+ times every single game. They want some bum at running back that is "good enough" and by that they mean Baker can hand him the ball 5 or 6 times a game to "keep the defense honest". lol We FINALLY have a running game worthy of the Cleveland Browns and they can't WAIT to dismantle it and go back to the good old days when we go through 6 quarterbacks a season because they get beat to death throwing the ball every stinking down. They would have traded Jim Brown in his prime. Because ALL running backs are a "dime a dozen" *snicker* If they were Titans fans they would be eager to get rid of Derrick Henry. You know, another dime a dozen running back...

SIGN NICK CHUBB~!

The reality is they are a dime a dozen.

Chubb is near the special level, but every year new backs enter the league. Given a good line, which we have, finding others to run the ball isn't that hard.

They might not be as good, but good enough that I don't think it would be all that hard to replace most of the production.

I don't want to lose Chubb, but if we did, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I have been a believer that the running game is vital for an NFL team while the experts were touting the running era was dead - meanwhile every NFL team was looking to establish a running game as a necessity for a passing game.

But the adage of "Dime a dozen" in regards to RB. I think is more so because there are so so many talented RBs coming out of college and they are more adept to the passing game as in running routes, blocking etc.

You still have to do your homework and pick the right guy. Look at Hunt, what was he a 3rd round pick? Even Chubb was a 2nd rounder.

I really really hope we can manage to keep Chubb...but after Zeke from the Cowboys got what he did I'm afraid it will take a lot of money to keep him here and in the scheme of things you don't want to break the bank on a RB or a WR for that matter.

jmho

I see your argument "it's not the end of the world" but

if I agree to hold your argument, I must admit to myself,

26 years without a win in the playoffs is not the end of the world either.

If I'm OK with the first, I must be OK with the 2nd,

Problem is, I'm not OK with the 2nd.

The best post you have made in ages! 100% agree.

I'd only be willing to start down this path if Baker keeps taking significant steps forward in his development. Our offense, as it is now, largely relies on the threat of the run. If you start eroding that threat, I think you'll start seeing other portions of the offense falter.

I'm not going to argue that you can't certainly find a "serviceable RB" without a lot of difficulty. You certainly can. But how much emphasis does the opposing D have to focus an a "serviceable running game"?

We certainly also agree that there is a ceiling to what you can pay Chubb. Suffice to say what my ceiling is may be somewhat higher than yours but we both do have a ceiling.

The reason I feel my ceiling may be somewhat higher than yours is the fact that when your running game loses o prolific RB and replaces him with a dime a dozen RB, the opposing D can place less focus on your running game and more focus on your passing game. So once you lose a guy like Chubb, not only does your running game take a step back in production, but to at least some extent your passing game takes a step back too.

Chubb IS special, period.

Seems like when we Draft players we talk about wanting impact players and difference makers. We have one of those at RB - and he's top 3 in the NFL for me.... and instead of wanting to keep an impact player - we are suddenly talking about how "serviceable" is acceptable as a substitute. The conversation is all wrong.

I get that of all the skill positions - RB seems to be the easiest to fill. And I get that with Garrett, Baker, Ward, OBJ, Landry, Wills et al .... we will have to face some tough decisions on who and what we prioritize.... but please, let's not down play or diminish exactly how good Chubb is - what his attitude and mentality brings - and how he epitomizes what a Blue Collar, hard nosed physical player the City of Cleveland loves.

It is easy to find a "good" RB. Those are a dime a dozen. It is much harder to find a game changer like Chubb. I wonder if Tennessee would have been a playoff team with a "good" RB in place of Derrick Henry?

It's a concern when you drop great players for "good enough" ones .... at any position.

The years that the Vikings were contenders with AP, they would NOT have been contenders with anyone else at running back.

In reply to both you and Oob..

"Serviceable" isn't exactly what I am talking about. Maybe it is just me, but that sounds like barely good.

I am not talking about that. No doubt you need a good back.

All I am saying is we drafted Chubb in the 2nd round. I am glad we have him. I am also pretty confident we can draft some player who could be a solid replacement if it came to that.

Let's hope it doesn't, but if it does, it is what it is. I wouldn't sell the farm simply to keep him.

Anyone that thinks we can replace Chubb with any "Good Back" makes me wonder how football smart they really are ???

LOl


Go do a mock draft

In theory, you are absolutely correct, but first there has to be a guy there when we pick, and we aren't picking at the top of the rounds any longer, so we'd have to grab any replacement RB in the 1st. There haven't been all that many backs in the last twenty years that are as good as he is, so the chances are pretty slim we could get someone that would have us just as happy.

That said, unless Chubb gets grievously injured or demands some extortionate contract when we start talks, then I feel that this is all moo; there's little chance that we let Chubb out of Cleveland.
And, honestly, I don't think Chubb ever wants to leave Cleveland, and I don't think his next contract will be an issue at all, especially with the new TV deal money kicking in after next year.

Chubb. Period. Losing ground if not him. Play your best with your best.

When I look at what you are saying dispassionately I understand it. I'm not quite sure if I've arrived at the same conclusion on ease of replaceability quite yet. I think its safe to say we can count on Chubb to contribute 12-15 TDs in a season. I don't have the stats handy but I want to say most of his TD runs last year seemed like they were from further than 10 yrds out.

Could we in theory replace him with another back who could contribute that amount of scoring? Probably. It has;t been fully tested but I think we are developing an O Line / O scheme that could make any RB look good.

But what are the odds of finding another RB that is as much of a scoring threat from that far out? Actually, I'd go so far to say that Chubb is a home run hitter type of player. He's established himself as being able to score from anywhere on the field at any time.

If we lost Nick I don't think anyone would disagree that our Offense would be effected. However I do think we have a system whereby it would't collapse the offense either.

Thats as good an example as I can think of. Well, I didn't think of it but you know what I mean.

Another thing to consider is that we are all focused on and expecting an improvement in the passing game in year 2 of this system. I don't see that it would be unreasonable (although hard to imagine) an improvement in the running game as well.

I don't know one way or the other about Chubbs wants and desires, but I agree, I doubt he leaves any time soon. With the expanded cap I wouldn't anticipate any real problem fitting him in on a 3 year deal. Maybe 4.

When it comes to scoring, it's hard to predict, but in my mind if he isn't scoring, somebody else probably is. No doubt he generates some scores on his own. The question is how many?

You mentioned 12-15 TD's as the number we can count on with Chubb in the backfield. That seems fair. Would we score fewer if he wasn't on the team? Maybe, but it wouldn't be 12-15 fewer. Maybe they wouldn't be scored the same way, but none the less a good number of them would be scored.

As you said, my passion for players isn't as high as some fans passion. That doesn't mean I don't like the guy or am not happy to have him, nor am suggesting we could bring back Travis Prentess to replace him.

Don't forget to factor in the Law of Unintended Consequences.
He may directly contribute to those 12-15 scores, but of the other scores that happen, how many of those, and how much of the flow of the offense in general, is influenced by his presence.

With a lesser back, or set of backs, that they don't have to stack the box to stop, defenses can play our passing game a LOT differently. As is the case with so much in football, the impact/effect of a player ripples proportionately beyond their individual position. The greater the ripple, the greater the player.

Average RB's are truly a dime a dozen..Guys like Chubb and Hunt are not... I agree, I sure hope we find a way to keep them

I was watching some of our games from last season and one of the announcers (can't remember which) pointed out the number of people in the box when Chubb was in the game, and if you watch any of our games you will see it, Now they also mentioned the defense plays less in the box for Hunt because of his receiving skills, although that backfires too

We have first hand data of what it means when Chubb suited up or did not as from the Cowboy game until just before the playoffs, around half the year last year, Chubb was out.

No matter the position there is talent and there is lesser talent.

Chubb is arguably the best runner in the NFL.

Then there is the team and how Chubb is viewed as a player and teammate.

From every corner of the Browns organization Chubb is respected.

So, when contracts come due. How does the management reward performance? It is one thing to be looking at a thirty year old producer and one who is 25/26.

IMO there is no doubt that Berry will sign Chubb. You reward players like him. You do that for them and as an example for others.

You want to attract free agents? Have a good reputation as an organization.

Again I would love to keep Chubb.

But as far as running a football team if I had to choose spending a boat load of money on Chubb possibly I would look hard at a 3rd round pick like Elijah Mitchell from Louisiana. Kid can play football and catch the ball as well as run.

I'd say that Chubb is an absolute lock to get a 2nd contract.
I'd say that the approach of taking another back to begin replacing him will happen as we approach his 3rd contract. There is still a LOT of rubber on them tires.

And at that time I would most likely consider that a sound business decision. But not at this time.

Absolutely lots of tread especially with Hunt sharing reps

I saw what you are saying for both players, mores for Chubb. Amazing how he still balled out. This just makes me want to say it again that we should have some series script of plays where they are both out there in the same backfield or at least formations. Defensively, I think it would be a nightmarishly great challenge for an opposing DC to breakdown. It might be similar to Byner-Mack or Csonka-Kiick, but these guys may have more skills. Offense has to bust the D and force their adjustments. This set might overwhelm some folks we see; it would also be great for audibles. Not sure how great it might be in Red Zone )I really think simpler may be better in the hole) but even there it demands some defenders to adjust to potentially more things. Tie up their heads!

NICK CHUBB CAREER STATS GA. 44 STARTS 37 ATT. 680 YDS. 3557 TD's 28 YPC 5.2

Man, how awesome would it be to see an entire drive where its Chubb and Hunt in together and the entire series is just handing off to one or the other (or both!) and taking it the distance???? Talk about beating up a defense

For the record, I'm a "running backs can be found anywhere" kind of guy. Like, looking at the success of mid-to-late round running backs or clearly undervalued free agents.

With that said, I've grown attached to the idea of keeping Nick Chubb long term if he takes a reasonable deal. The talent is undeniable, and the impact he has on this team is consistent.

I'm looking forward to watching what he can do this season being what I'm thinking will be an improved aerial assault.

My thoughts. Consider Hunt as a superslot or extra OL in a slot with Chubb. The O's guys should have some giddy options if they try to engineer mismatches. Some clever here could help our throwing as well. Aerial assault and dirt hurt. I would watch this all day long. I just don't feel the offense has brutalized people as much as I like, butmeh, that's just me. We can do more.

I feel the same way... RBs in general can be found everywhere... but Nick isn't just a RB... I'd do whatever I can to give him a fair market deal.... if we can't sign him I pray we find a good RB in the draft and can scheme well enough...

Interesting interview by David Meltzer of Entrepreneur Magazine.

What a great young man!

The thing is as I've gotten older I always try to look at the NFL and The Cleveland Browns for what they actually are, a corporation that winning and managing your salary cap is the bottom line in every decision. It's not about personalities or a players background. It's not about their story or who they are as a person come contract time.

Yes, I try my best to do that. But every once in a while players come along like Myles and Chubb that make it, no matter how hard I try, virtually impossible not to become attached to them as people.

Can't imagine (I would be shocked) if the Browns let Chubb test Free Agency, Berry would be destroyed by this fan base if we lost him ... JMO

Well said.

Thanks arch.

Don't get used to it.

I had no intention of it.

I can say that about a lot of players. There are just some players we like and who do the things that deserve respect, yet in the end, they will jump ship as easily as we would let them go.

I might get irritated when that happens, just like when we release a player such as Richardson. Like it or not, it is just business, it isn't anything personal, so I don't hold it against the player or the team. The player has to do what is best for him and the FO needs to do what is best for the team.

It is what it is.

I love Nick Chubb!

SIGN HIM BERRY!

Early 2nd qtr.
Just make them choke on run after run after run...

Impose the run upon them, demoralize them early in the game. A D that loses its will to tackle before halftime will give up 40+ yard broken tackle runs in the 4th. These 2 in the backfield give 6 an embarrassment of riches to throw to so long as they are a threat to grab a first down with any/every possession.

CLE is going to be responsible for a lot of DC's sleepless nights this year.

I love it. I love it.

he’s exactly the type of player I love. Just his attitude, work ethic, etc

I really back his Waterboy work.

some of the best cutbacks i've ever seen in my life.

Well stated Pit.

The term "role model" comes to mind.

When you make a bunch of jack early on in life it is easy to develop a distorted view of life. Success has ruined many people.

Chubb is one of those rare people who has maintained a singular focus. Nothing sways him from his true self.

I have no doubt that Andrew Berry will reward Chubb.

In that reel, you can see when Chubb was out and having Hunt was such a blessing.

Love this PitDawg and agree 100%. Part of loving the team is loving the players. We are finally building that again.

He's a monster lol

Power Cleaning 375 like it's 155. That's just sick!

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2021/06/03/valuable-nick-chubb-cleveland-browns/

Cleveland Browns: Just how valuable is Nick Chubb?
by J.T. Soderlund

As Nick Chubb heads into a contract year, do the Cleveland Browns plan to extend him or let him walk after this season?

The Cleveland Browns have managed to create one of the best rushing attacks in the NFL over the past couple of seasons. Last season, Nick Chubb and Kareem Hunt combined for more than 2,300 yards from scrimmage. This potent and methodical rushing attack was integral to the success of the 2020 Browns.


Heading into 2021, every piece of that rushing attack is staying the same. The Browns return all five starting offensive lineman and Kareem Hunt and Nick Chubb are both back as well. With another season of experience together it is only right to expect that the dynamic rushing duo should be able to get even more yards than they got last season.

However, with how much talent the Browns have brought in since general manager Andrew Berry took over, it is going to start to be difficult to retain key players.

This brings up a difficult decision for the Browns front office as Chubb heads into the last year of his current contract. Do the Browns sacrifice money at more valuable positions or let their star running back walk?


The knee-jerk reaction of just about every Browns fan should be “of course the Browns should bring back Nick Chubb.” And there is good reason to think that.


Chubb has gotten more than 1,100 yards from scrimmage every season since he has been in the NFL. He also contributes without the ball in his hand as he is one of the best pass-protecting running backs in the NFL.

On top of that, he also brings things to the table that don’t show up on a stat sheet. He has never caused any problems in the locker room. He keeps to himself and doesn’t cause problems. In today’s NFL that cannot be overlooked. Chubb is an overall team player.

A player of Nick Chubb’s caliber, at just about any other position, would warrant an unquestioned contract extension. But the recent history of running back contract extensions has to make you rethink it, even if it is Chubb.

Running backs typically wear down faster than any other position in football and No. 24 is no stranger to this as he has faced multiple gruesome injuries throughout his college and professional career.

Chubb is currently slated to use just under $4.25 million of the Browns 2021 cap space, according to Over the Cap. Top-5 running backs in the NFL are making at least $12 million a season, and the Browns would need to be in that range if they wanted to offer him an extension.

They could also attempt to sign him to the franchise tag which is projected to fall in between $10 million and $13 million for 2022. Keeping Nick Chubb after this season is going to get expensive.

One thing to remember is that Wyatt Teller is also up for free agency after the 2021 season. The front office’s decision will likely come down to who they think is more valuable: Teller or Chubb.

Interior offensive lineman and running backs are both relatively replaceable. The big difference is that the performance of offensive linemen is often dependent on the other four linemen playing next to them. A star offensive lineman does not make as much impact that a star running back does.

Unless Forbes or someone cheap steps up and outplays Teller, you just sign Teller, then Franchise Chubb and wait for the new CBA/TV deal to kick in...... OR, you just sign Chubb to a contract that keeps him here for the rest of his career. Give him a 7 year deal that voids to four or five. You can give him BIG money and make it cap-friendly.

I resign Chubb but not at all costs.

I give him top money but not long term top money.

I do NOT make that sort of offer to Teller I think Teller grading out as well as he did has more to do with BC and the guys around him then he would make on his own. I be fair but not overly. Of course everything in the NFL can change in the snap of a football. Chub could suffer a career ending injury, or so could Teller for that matter.

As was said neither is irreplaceable. However, Chubb in my view is close. I love the person as much as I do the player. Without saying much Chubb is a team leader, one I would never not want around he is invaluable to this team. But there is a ceiling. Fair and above average but not a 5 year deal more like a 3 year deal.

Teller can come or go, we can replace him the key is coaching. Every single O Linemen that played last season was a stud that IMO all goes back to BC. If I was going to extend someone it would be him.

We face some tough decisions next off season Chubb IMO is a no brainer be fair and give him his due but not beyond 3 years. We are bound to see some guys go we don't want to see go. That again comes down to coaching and preparing the youngsters we have to assume the rolls of the guys we will be forced to allow to leave. Successful teams face this issue and so we will too.

That may be an article but it is not a story.