RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 05:12 AM
continue on.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 05:26 AM
I'd like to add my .02 about RGIII
I think he will be a great player, just not in this offense.
Square peg meet Round Hole.
*think Kam Wimbley in a 3-4 when he was suited for a 4-3.
I can see us picking a QB in the 3rd or 4th round
My Guess is we stick it out with Colt for another year and get him some play makers (WR/RB) with the possibility of signing Hillis to a 4 year contract.
As it stands today my offseason dream would be:
Give Colt another year,
Sign Hillis,
Draft Blackmon or get a WR,
pick up a stud RT in FA or in rounds 2-3 of the draft.
Grab a DE with our second 1st round pick or a CB to replace "fall down" Sheldon Brown. pick up one or the other in FA.
For the first time in a long time, I feel like we are about 5-6 players (if Colt and Hillis turns out good seasons with us) away from being a really good team again. Every other year we have been 10-15 and even a few years of 20.
I think he will be a great player, just not in this offense.
Square peg meet Round Hole.
*think Kam Wimbley in a 3-4 when he was suited for a 4-3.
I can see us picking a QB in the 3rd or 4th round
My Guess is we stick it out with Colt for another year and get him some play makers (WR/RB) with the possibility of signing Hillis to a 4 year contract.
As it stands today my offseason dream would be:
Give Colt another year,
Sign Hillis,
Draft Blackmon or get a WR,
pick up a stud RT in FA or in rounds 2-3 of the draft.
Grab a DE with our second 1st round pick or a CB to replace "fall down" Sheldon Brown. pick up one or the other in FA.
For the first time in a long time, I feel like we are about 5-6 players (if Colt and Hillis turns out good seasons with us) away from being a really good team again. Every other year we have been 10-15 and even a few years of 20.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 05:58 AM
So, we're a QB, a RB, a couple WRs, a RT, and a starting CB away from being a good team? Be still, my beating heart.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 06:01 AM
QB is the most important position in football. There is no debate here.
LT is next and we have the best LT in football. That's pretty cool.
RDE is the next most important position and is crucial to causing turnovers and general disarray (south park!) on defense.
I really really wish there was a Coples who had the drive of Joe Thomas this year. #4 is prime position to take the top pass rusher in the draft. Unfortunately it's just not the case.
Luck is going #1.
Kalil or RG3 is going #2
Kalil or RG3 is going #3
Who goes #4. If I had to put money today it's Blackmon. 50% us, 50% Rams.
What's unfortunate is that it's a position of relative unimportance compared to other positions on the football field.
LT is next and we have the best LT in football. That's pretty cool.
RDE is the next most important position and is crucial to causing turnovers and general disarray (south park!) on defense.
I really really wish there was a Coples who had the drive of Joe Thomas this year. #4 is prime position to take the top pass rusher in the draft. Unfortunately it's just not the case.
Luck is going #1.
Kalil or RG3 is going #2
Kalil or RG3 is going #3
Who goes #4. If I had to put money today it's Blackmon. 50% us, 50% Rams.
What's unfortunate is that it's a position of relative unimportance compared to other positions on the football field.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 10:59 AM
Robert Griffin III will likely wait to throw
February 21, 2012
Former Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III said Monday he likely will not throw at the NFL scouting combine later this week, choosing to focus on team interviews, the 40-yard dash and other drills in Indianapolis.
Griffin, who has been working extensively with quarterback consultant Terry Shea on his foot work, said he will instead save the throwing for his pro day March 21 (live stream on ESPN3), which has been moved up a day to avoid going at the same time as the pro day for fellow top quarterback prospect Andrew Luck.
"Just getting used to the type of routes you have to throw at the next level," the dual-threat quarterback said of his work with Shea. "Basically just trying to find the best way to allow my skills to shine, whether that's my quick release or just my ability to drive the football down the field.
"It's like a performance when it comes to your pro day and when you're throwing. It's exactly like a performance, you've just got to memorize the script and go out and execute to the best of your ability," he said. "Once you get drafted, you can go to your team and learn the grand scheme of things."
Griffin was in Fort Worth on Monday night to accept the Davey O'Brien Award that recognizes the nation's top quarterback.
Griffin said Monday he's excited to meet with teams to show them that Baylor's spread offense was more pro-style than gimmick.
"I'm excited to wow (teams) in the interviews with the type of offense that (Baylor) run, just so they can understand it's not as simple as some people make our spread out to be. It's a different kind of spread," Griffin said. "Although I don't agree with it, but people say I just burst on the scene this year, so no one knows much about me, whether NFL GMs or analysts, so I get a chance to put my best foot forward."
Running Baylor's spread offense, Griffin beat out Luck for the Heisman Trophy last fall to become Baylor's first Heisman winner.
Griffin said whether he -- or Luck -- is picked first overall by the Indianapolis Colts on April 26 won't change him as a quarterback.
"We both want to be the best, we both want to be No. 1. Whether I get drafted first or not, it's not going to change the way I play," Griffin said. "All I can say, it's about motivation. You never want to feel like everybody thinks you're a sure thing in life because it can rob you of your motivation to go out and get better."
Griffin set or tied 54 school records in 41 games at Baylor, which last season tied a school record with 10 wins -- the other 10-win season was in 1980 during Mike Singletary's senior year. The Bears won their last six games in 2011, and the record-setting 67-56 victory over Washington in the Alamo Bowl was their first bowl victory since 1992.
Griffin is the school's career passing leader, completing 800 of 1,192 passes (67 percent) for 10,366 yards and 78 touchdowns with 17 interceptions. His 2,254 yards and 33 TDs rushing are records for a Bears quarterback.
Sure, those numbers were made possible by Baylor's offensive scheme. But Griffin said it was based on plenty of pro-style principles.
"At first glance, they see four or five wide receivers, a lot of motion, a lot of different sets of formations," Griffin said. "If you take it from that aspect, it's exactly the same things that the pros do, go two-tight, four wide and two tight ends, and tight end at running back like the Patriots do."
Griffin insisted he has no hints of what might happen on draft day, but said when he went to Indianapolis during Super Bowl week that fans there were telling him they wanted him to come there. He added that he hopes Peyton Manning stays in Indianapolis, because "he's a legend and deserves that."
web page
February 21, 2012
Former Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III said Monday he likely will not throw at the NFL scouting combine later this week, choosing to focus on team interviews, the 40-yard dash and other drills in Indianapolis.
Griffin, who has been working extensively with quarterback consultant Terry Shea on his foot work, said he will instead save the throwing for his pro day March 21 (live stream on ESPN3), which has been moved up a day to avoid going at the same time as the pro day for fellow top quarterback prospect Andrew Luck.
"Just getting used to the type of routes you have to throw at the next level," the dual-threat quarterback said of his work with Shea. "Basically just trying to find the best way to allow my skills to shine, whether that's my quick release or just my ability to drive the football down the field.
"It's like a performance when it comes to your pro day and when you're throwing. It's exactly like a performance, you've just got to memorize the script and go out and execute to the best of your ability," he said. "Once you get drafted, you can go to your team and learn the grand scheme of things."
Griffin was in Fort Worth on Monday night to accept the Davey O'Brien Award that recognizes the nation's top quarterback.
Griffin said Monday he's excited to meet with teams to show them that Baylor's spread offense was more pro-style than gimmick.
"I'm excited to wow (teams) in the interviews with the type of offense that (Baylor) run, just so they can understand it's not as simple as some people make our spread out to be. It's a different kind of spread," Griffin said. "Although I don't agree with it, but people say I just burst on the scene this year, so no one knows much about me, whether NFL GMs or analysts, so I get a chance to put my best foot forward."
Running Baylor's spread offense, Griffin beat out Luck for the Heisman Trophy last fall to become Baylor's first Heisman winner.
Griffin said whether he -- or Luck -- is picked first overall by the Indianapolis Colts on April 26 won't change him as a quarterback.
"We both want to be the best, we both want to be No. 1. Whether I get drafted first or not, it's not going to change the way I play," Griffin said. "All I can say, it's about motivation. You never want to feel like everybody thinks you're a sure thing in life because it can rob you of your motivation to go out and get better."
Griffin set or tied 54 school records in 41 games at Baylor, which last season tied a school record with 10 wins -- the other 10-win season was in 1980 during Mike Singletary's senior year. The Bears won their last six games in 2011, and the record-setting 67-56 victory over Washington in the Alamo Bowl was their first bowl victory since 1992.
Griffin is the school's career passing leader, completing 800 of 1,192 passes (67 percent) for 10,366 yards and 78 touchdowns with 17 interceptions. His 2,254 yards and 33 TDs rushing are records for a Bears quarterback.
Sure, those numbers were made possible by Baylor's offensive scheme. But Griffin said it was based on plenty of pro-style principles.
"At first glance, they see four or five wide receivers, a lot of motion, a lot of different sets of formations," Griffin said. "If you take it from that aspect, it's exactly the same things that the pros do, go two-tight, four wide and two tight ends, and tight end at running back like the Patriots do."
Griffin insisted he has no hints of what might happen on draft day, but said when he went to Indianapolis during Super Bowl week that fans there were telling him they wanted him to come there. He added that he hopes Peyton Manning stays in Indianapolis, because "he's a legend and deserves that."
web page
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 11:10 AM
awwwwwwwwwwww...
cmon.. I wanted to see him throw..
cmon.. I wanted to see him throw..
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 11:27 AM
LOYALDAWG from Locked up thread...
Change what???...Nothing needs to change...
U guys see this wildly athletic QB and think we need to change so he can run wild...BS...
A Non so-called WCO team could have designed rollouts and even option plays for em'...But it's not needed...
Griffin's NOT a 1 Read and take-off QB...His athleticism would be huge here in what they call Extending Plays...His Mobility allows him to side-step pressure...Roll right or left...And keep his eyes downfield...Buying precious seconds...And he's got the arm and accuracy to hit these guys as they break open...THAT's how u frustrate the hell out of any defense...
How many times in just this past year did we see McCoy vacate the pocket...Buy time...Only to MISS a WIDE OPEN receiver downfield???...The ability to do this and actually HIT your receiver downfield is what can WIN games in this league...Plays like that are back breakers...Momentum creators...
We don't have to change a damn thing with Griffin running this offense...And we don't need to turn him loose on option plays...NO NEED TO...He will create on his own when need be...
Quote:
I see a lot of articles and analyst say they will have to adjust some things around Griffin and change things up a bit. I just don't see them changing anything to fit a player in.
Change what???...Nothing needs to change...
U guys see this wildly athletic QB and think we need to change so he can run wild...BS...
A Non so-called WCO team could have designed rollouts and even option plays for em'...But it's not needed...
Griffin's NOT a 1 Read and take-off QB...His athleticism would be huge here in what they call Extending Plays...His Mobility allows him to side-step pressure...Roll right or left...And keep his eyes downfield...Buying precious seconds...And he's got the arm and accuracy to hit these guys as they break open...THAT's how u frustrate the hell out of any defense...
How many times in just this past year did we see McCoy vacate the pocket...Buy time...Only to MISS a WIDE OPEN receiver downfield???...The ability to do this and actually HIT your receiver downfield is what can WIN games in this league...Plays like that are back breakers...Momentum creators...
We don't have to change a damn thing with Griffin running this offense...And we don't need to turn him loose on option plays...NO NEED TO...He will create on his own when need be...
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 02:07 PM
Anybody think that the whole change the offense thing is the polite way of saying add pass patterns of >20 yards to take advantage of the beautiful deep ball that RGIII throws that we don't currently use because we don't have a Qb on our roster that throws deep well?
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 02:36 PM
Quote:
Anybody think that the whole change the offense thing is the polite way of saying add pass patterns of >20 yards to take advantage of the beautiful deep ball that RGIII throws that we don't currently use because we don't have a Qb on our roster that throws deep well?
well, we should find some WRs who can get deep quickly too because we don't seem to have any of those either.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 03:11 PM
From the original thread.
LOYALDAWG,
Said blog was created Saturday February 18 2012 at 4:20 pm.
My post;
#900591 - Fri Feb 17 2012 02:49 PM
The only difference being that I also had Tannehill as a possible option.
Quote:Quote:Quote:
If Griffin falls to pick four, I believe the Browns could trade down to six and let the Redskins take Griffin. At pick six, hopefully the Browns could land a Justin Blackmon, a Trent Richardson (RB Alabama), or worst case, a Riley Reiff (OT Iowa).
Hmmm where have I heard this before ... Plagiarism
Without the copyright I have no idea who the "smart one" really is.
LOYALDAWG,
Said blog was created Saturday February 18 2012 at 4:20 pm.
My post;
#900591 - Fri Feb 17 2012 02:49 PM
The only difference being that I also had Tannehill as a possible option.
Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 08:34 PM
Quote:
Cleveland Browns coach Pat Shurmur says it's premature to say team will opt for RG3 over Colt McCoy
By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
"I think what happens is, there's a lot that gets said and written at this time and it's very interesting to everyone,'' said Shurmur. "Folks are making predictions while we're still gathering information. That's the important part. That's the exciting thing about the Combine.''
Shurmur acknowledged, though, that looking forward to meeting RG3. Teams can conduct 15-minute private interviews with up to 60 players.
"First of all, I've never met the man,'' said Shurmur. "That's why this Combine is going to be so important for me. He's obviously very accomplished as a college quarterback and as we go through it all, we'll determine whether he's what everybody says he is.''
If the Browns decide not to draft RG3, they're confident McCoy can make huge strides in 2012.
"We're looking forward him to improving through the offseason,'' said Shurmur. "I think it will make a big difference in year two (of) me being here. I told him to prepare himself to get as much out of this offseason as possible. I'm expecting him to attack this offseason and get as good as he can get within our system. He really works at things and that's going to help him.''
Shurmur thinks McCoy can get dramatically better than he was in 2012, a season in which the Browns went 4-12 and scored one more point than the expansion team of 1999.
"I'm expecting that he will and the thing that's encouraging to me is that he's a guy you know it going to work at it,'' said Shurmur. "Heck, I think he can be very good. If he plays at a high level like I think he can, when he makes these improvements, that means he can help us win football games and I think that's what you're looking for at the end of the day -- put the ball in the end zone and win games.''
Shurmur said McCoy is fully recovered from his concussion and ready to do what it takes to improve.
"A lot of things that he needs to improve on can be done by just working on it,'' said Shurmur. "It's everything from decision-making to the timing of his throws to footwork and fundamentals.''
He said McCoy understands the business and that the Browns are evaluating other quarterbacks.
"I think all players live with the thought that you're bringing in other guys,'' he said.
Shurmur addressed a number of other topics during his interview. Afterwards, offensive coordinator Brad Childress addressed the media too:
* Shurmur said he'll call the plays, but collaborate with Childress, who will be upstairs.
* He said the Browns are willing to use the franchise tag on a number of players. A source told the Plain Dealer they'll franchise D'Qwell Jackson if they can't sign him to a multi-year deal. "He's a guy we want back,'' said Shurmur. If they do sign him, they have the option of using the tag on another player, such as kicker Phil Dawson or running back Peyton Hillis. Deadline for franchising a player is Mar. 5.
* Shurmur sounded very positive about Hillis, whom the team would like to re-sign. "I really liked what I saw when he was in there playing healthy.''
* He was noncommital about a role in 2012 for guard Eric Steinbach, who's recovering from back surgery and is due $6 million in 2012. He said he's working out, but didn't know his specific timetable. He said he still sees Jason Pinkston as a guard even if Steinbach is ready for fulltime duty.
* Shurmur spoke highly of free agent cornerback Dimitri Patterson and free agent safety Mike Adams, which indicates the team is trying to re-sign both of them. He said Patterson can be a starter, not just a nickelback.
* Shurmur sounded as though the Browns are leaning toward signing a veteran wide receiver in free agency. "It's important if you add leadership'' in every one of your position groups, he said. The key, he said, is that the veteran can still play.
* Childress said he "saw some great finishes by'' RG3 last year. He acknowledged that teams should play to a player's strengths.
* Childress said the fact that Texas A&M quarterback Ryan Tannehill played 30 games at wide receiver "speaks to his athleticism'' and hand-eye coordination. He said Tannehill would be more well-versed in the West Coast offense from working under Aggies coach Mike Sherman.
© 2012 cleveland.com. All rights reserved.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/cleveland_browns_coach_pat_shu_15.html
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 09:47 PM
Quote:
* Shurmur sounded as though the Browns are leaning toward signing a veteran wide receiver in free agency. "It's important if you add leadership'' in every one of your position groups, he said. The key, he said, is that the veteran can still play.
Is Ocho available? I would pick him up.
Might sound wacky but I think it would work.
I think his ego was checked at the Patriots door.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/22/12 09:54 PM
RGTrey without a deep threat is wasted. Like bringing a gun to a knife fight and using it as a club. Decide what we want to be, FO. He needs an accomplished FA, or two decent wideouts. But they depend on each other.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 09:55 PM
Quote:
Quote:
* Shurmur sounded as though the Browns are leaning toward signing a veteran wide receiver in free agency. "It's important if you add leadership'' in every one of your position groups, he said. The key, he said, is that the veteran can still play.
Is Ocho available? I would pick him up.
Might sound wacky but I think it would work.
I think his ego was checked at the Patriots door.
completely different circumstances here vs the Pats. he went to the Pats who are a winner.. he had to take a back seat so to speak. Here, he'd be the king receiver. I'm pretty sure the ego would resurface pretty darn quick
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 10:20 PM
that and he couldn't get open enough for TOM BRADY to throw him the ball
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 10:24 PM
I'd get a check on his attitude, but I think that this is a case that I'd strongly consider signing T.O.
I soooo hate his persona, but he is absolutely one of the greatest WCO WR's of all time. He got his start and made his name in this offense.
I think he would respect Holmgren enough to hold his persona in check, though.
I soooo hate his persona, but he is absolutely one of the greatest WCO WR's of all time. He got his start and made his name in this offense.
I think he would respect Holmgren enough to hold his persona in check, though.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 10:33 PM
Or, we could just draft Justin Blackmon.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 10:34 PM
Quote:
I'd get a check on his attitude, but I think that this is a case that I'd strongly consider signing T.O.
I soooo hate his persona, but he is absolutely one of the greatest WCO WR's of all time. He got his start and made his name in this offense.
I think he would respect Holmgren enough to hold his persona in check, though.
Wow...
What about building the team before getting a QB that's worth a chit???
U wanna sign a 35+ year old washed up WR for 1 year???
Wow...
Case closed with u as far as QB's r concerned...U just don't get it...Sad...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 10:41 PM
I would probably quit watching the Browns if they signed TO or Chad.
Now as for the article Daman posted, it is hard to gain much from what was said but it was an interesting read for this time of year.
Now as for the article Daman posted, it is hard to gain much from what was said but it was an interesting read for this time of year.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 10:47 PM
Quote:
Or, we could just draft Justin Blackmon.
Or plan B;
Pierre Garcon, WR, Indianapolis Colts:
Robert Meachem, WR, New Orleans Saints:
(option B)
Laurent Robinson, WR, Cowboys
(Option C)
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 10:53 PM
If Heckert is ok with TO I would be too. He has first hand experience wit hhim and can make a much more informed decision than any of us (and most other NFL decision makers).
As for Ocho, Seriously? He has name recognition and that is it. He isn't the same Wr that he was 5 years ago. He hasn't even been decent the past 3 years. Honestly I would take Massaquoi over him - attitude or no attitude.
As for Ocho, Seriously? He has name recognition and that is it. He isn't the same Wr that he was 5 years ago. He hasn't even been decent the past 3 years. Honestly I would take Massaquoi over him - attitude or no attitude.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 11:00 PM
Quote:Quote:
Or, we could just draft Justin Blackmon.
Or plan B;
Pierre Garcon, WR, Indianapolis Colts:
Robert Meachem, WR, New Orleans Saints:
(option B)
Laurent Robinson, WR, Cowboys
(Option C)
even if we got one of those, I'd still want to draft a WR. Criner in the 3rd might be good enough though.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 11:10 PM
I just laughed for 10 minutes at the thought of signing Ocho and TO.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 11:22 PM
Quote:
If the Browns decide not to draft RG3, they're confident McCoy can make huge strides in 2012.
Evidently we aren't interested at all in Flynn or Tannehill.
We need a pot stirring emoticon.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 11:26 PM
Quote:
I just laughed for 10 minutes at the thought of signing Ocho and TO.
I threw up in my mouth.
I wish I could have laughed instead. It would have been much nicer.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 11:32 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Or, we could just draft Justin Blackmon.
Or plan B;
Pierre Garcon, WR, Indianapolis Colts:
Robert Meachem, WR, New Orleans Saints:
(option B)
Laurent Robinson, WR, Cowboys
(Option C)
even if we got one of those, I'd still want to draft a WR. Criner in the 3rd might be good enough though.
I agree on both accounts, but that is not as high a priority as getting a go to #1 target for our QB.
I agree with Mike Mayock in that the talent drops off steeply after the first 3-4 WR prospects this year and I'm still on the fence with #4 Sanu, that he could be more then just a complimentary receiver or worthy of first round consideration.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 11:41 PM
I'm kinda on the bandwagon for WRs that its Blackmon or Jeffrey or bust...
That being said...if we drafted someone else, for a complimentary slot wr role...okay, but if we want a playmaker at WR, Blackmon or Jeffrey...
That being said...if we drafted someone else, for a complimentary slot wr role...okay, but if we want a playmaker at WR, Blackmon or Jeffrey...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/22/12 11:59 PM
I agree with Mike Mayock in that the talent drops off steeply after the first 3-4 WR prospects this year and I'm still on the fence with #4 Sanu, that he could be more then just a complimentary receiver or worthy of first round consideration.
I don't see ELITE out of the top group of receivers. Honestly, I would be just as happy if not happier with guys like Dwight jones, Joe Adams and Jordan White as I would be with Blackmon, Kenny Wright and Michael Floyd. I just don't see a high investment in receiver this year.
I don't see ELITE out of the top group of receivers. Honestly, I would be just as happy if not happier with guys like Dwight jones, Joe Adams and Jordan White as I would be with Blackmon, Kenny Wright and Michael Floyd. I just don't see a high investment in receiver this year.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 12:00 AM
Quote:
I'm kinda on the bandwagon for WRs that its Blackmon or Jeffrey or bust...
That being said...if we drafted someone else, for a complimentary slot wr role...okay, but if we want a playmaker at WR, Blackmon or Jeffrey...
Bust = plan B?
I just worry that Jeffrey will eat his way out of the League in 3-4 years, but would be worth a gamble with pick 68.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 12:41 AM
Isn't Jeffrey like 270 pounds?
That's him on the left. He at least was fat.
That's him on the left. He at least was fat.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 01:22 AM
After considering all the discussion from the, we have to have RGIII proponents, I ask you this; Would any of you be as high about RGIII if Barkley were available? Personally I don't think so.
Would it not be wiser to use this years multiple draft picks to solidify both lines and get some high quality talent in WR & RB, give Colt this year with the with the team and (Since it is obvious he can't be anymore than average) sell the farm next year to get a true "Franchise" quarterback in Barkley.
Just my opinion, but I see Barkley being more worthy of the kind of trades everyone on here is talking about making, long before I would even consider RGIII. We have been waiting and hopeing way to long to settle for the flavor of the year to take a chance on a player i see as being, not much better, than what we already have.
Here is the senario; 1) The new players get a full Off Season and regular season year to gell under newly installed coaching staff complete with OC, 2) Colt gets his final 16 games to prove all of the detractors right or wrong with no excuses 3) Should Colt truely fail, as all of the detractors have guaranteed, we will be drafting fairly high and we have a solid core of players for our "Franchise" QB to come in and be protected by.
Just my 2 cents worth, I now return you to your regularly scheduled "GO BROWNS" conversations.
Would it not be wiser to use this years multiple draft picks to solidify both lines and get some high quality talent in WR & RB, give Colt this year with the with the team and (Since it is obvious he can't be anymore than average) sell the farm next year to get a true "Franchise" quarterback in Barkley.
Just my opinion, but I see Barkley being more worthy of the kind of trades everyone on here is talking about making, long before I would even consider RGIII. We have been waiting and hopeing way to long to settle for the flavor of the year to take a chance on a player i see as being, not much better, than what we already have.
Here is the senario; 1) The new players get a full Off Season and regular season year to gell under newly installed coaching staff complete with OC, 2) Colt gets his final 16 games to prove all of the detractors right or wrong with no excuses 3) Should Colt truely fail, as all of the detractors have guaranteed, we will be drafting fairly high and we have a solid core of players for our "Franchise" QB to come in and be protected by.
Just my 2 cents worth, I now return you to your regularly scheduled "GO BROWNS" conversations.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 02:28 AM
Bang your gums?
Wow ... that's the way to get a solid football discussion going.
As to what I think your question was ..... yes, I liked RG3 even when Barkley was in the mix.
Wow ... that's the way to get a solid football discussion going.
As to what I think your question was ..... yes, I liked RG3 even when Barkley was in the mix.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 02:52 AM
It's ok, I don't need your approval, and I'm not at all convinced that you get it, either... so we're on even ground 
The thinking is that it brings in a solid veteran WR that already knows this offense as well as any player in the league and has a superior proven record with it.
IF the coaches and FO are ok with him, and IF they feel he has enough left in the tank.... heck yeah, I would actually be quite Ok with this.
The thinking is that it brings in a solid veteran WR that already knows this offense as well as any player in the league and has a superior proven record with it.
IF the coaches and FO are ok with him, and IF they feel he has enough left in the tank.... heck yeah, I would actually be quite Ok with this.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 10:17 AM
Quote:
Should Colt truely fail, as all of the detractors have guaranteed, we will be drafting fairly high and we have a solid core of players for our "Franchise" QB to come in and be protected by.
Good luck prying the #1 pick away from a team that's there because they suck...And most likely need Barkley themselves ala Indy and Luck...
Teams hopefully don't forecast like that...Next year...No...Don't think so...
Then comes the same thing as is being said now...NO TRADE because we have too many holes to fill...
When the opportunity stares u in the face...And u need a QB...And U LIKE SAID QB...U go for it...
Read that one again...U LIKE SAID QB...IF we like Griffin u go get em'...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 12:03 PM
If we like Griffin.
The more I read and the more I see what coaching mobves we make, we may be intent on giving Colt another year with a couple of better players added to the mix.
But yep, if we like Griffin, and HAVE to move up, then move up. We'll know if someone is trying to move up. The Rams aren't going to keep that secret...they want us in the bidding.
The more I read and the more I see what coaching mobves we make, we may be intent on giving Colt another year with a couple of better players added to the mix.
But yep, if we like Griffin, and HAVE to move up, then move up. We'll know if someone is trying to move up. The Rams aren't going to keep that secret...they want us in the bidding.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 12:15 PM
Quote:
Or, we could just draft Justin Blackmon.
Do you think Blackmon is a stud receiver or maybe the best of a group that lacks a little??
Serious question.
My feeling is Blackmon is a bit like Little...a big guy with good enough hands. I just think the guy plays a little slow, or maybe I should say he doesn't play fast. Does that make sense.
At least for me, I am hoping we add a little more speed opposite Little, who I think is on his way to being a plus receiver in the league.
A few years ago I was real excited about Calvin Johnson. I just don't feel the same about Blackmon. I think I would rather have Floyd or Sanu who we could get later in round 1.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 12:54 PM
Personally I do think that Blackmon is a stud receiver. Super stud like Calvin Johnson or Fitzgerald? No but in that 2nd tier like Andre Johnson. I am not yet sure where this past year's rookie's will fall out. I think Green will be in that top tier and Jones in the 2nd group.
Blackmon may time slow in the 40 but he doesn't play slow. When he catches the ball he runs away from people (sometimes through them) and doesn't get caught from behind.
I can see why you would compare Blackmon to Little. Both are big strong muscular guys. Blackmon is a much better route runner. Blackmon is also much better than Little at using his body to shield the defender to make himself open. And Blackmon is much better at going up and getting the ball. (As I am re-reading what I wrote, I am imagining Justin Blackmon saying that, talking in 3rd person)
I would agree that this would be nice. Floyd and Sanu are not the answer if this is you primary goal when looking to draft a wr this year. If you want to improve speed at wr then you are looking at Kendal Wright, Jarius Wright or Joe Adams. Kendall Wright will be tough for us to get. #4 is too high but I think that he is gone by #22. Trade down from 4, get extra picks and take him or trade up from 22? If we want him I think that is what we need to do. The 2 Arkansas receivers probably go 3rd or 4th round.
If we do not sign a quality young Wr in free agancy (Stevie Johnson any one?) then I would not be opposed to drafting both Blackmon and Jarius Wright or Joe Adams. If we do sign a FA Wr then I would still look to draft one of those speed guys.
Blackmon may time slow in the 40 but he doesn't play slow. When he catches the ball he runs away from people (sometimes through them) and doesn't get caught from behind.
I can see why you would compare Blackmon to Little. Both are big strong muscular guys. Blackmon is a much better route runner. Blackmon is also much better than Little at using his body to shield the defender to make himself open. And Blackmon is much better at going up and getting the ball. (As I am re-reading what I wrote, I am imagining Justin Blackmon saying that, talking in 3rd person)
Quote:
At least for me, I am hoping we add a little more speed opposite Little, who I think is on his way to being a plus receiver in the league.
I would agree that this would be nice. Floyd and Sanu are not the answer if this is you primary goal when looking to draft a wr this year. If you want to improve speed at wr then you are looking at Kendal Wright, Jarius Wright or Joe Adams. Kendall Wright will be tough for us to get. #4 is too high but I think that he is gone by #22. Trade down from 4, get extra picks and take him or trade up from 22? If we want him I think that is what we need to do. The 2 Arkansas receivers probably go 3rd or 4th round.
If we do not sign a quality young Wr in free agancy (Stevie Johnson any one?) then I would not be opposed to drafting both Blackmon and Jarius Wright or Joe Adams. If we do sign a FA Wr then I would still look to draft one of those speed guys.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 02:05 PM
Quote:
Do you think Blackmon is a stud receiver or maybe the best of a group that lacks a little??
Serious question.
My feeling is Blackmon is a bit like Little...a big guy with good enough hands. I just think the guy plays a little slow, or maybe I should say he doesn't play fast. Does that make sense.
At least for me, I am hoping we add a little more speed opposite Little, who I think is on his way to being a plus receiver in the league.
I really, really do think he's a stud receiver. I just watched OK State v. Arizona a couple days ago on ESPN3D, I'm hoping to put up some game recaps of draft prospects over the next few days for the games I recorded and watched for the prospects (so far Nebraska/South Carolina, Arizona/OK State, Clemson/FSU). During the AZ/OKSt game, the announcer made a comparison between Blackmon and TO and it's impossible to not see when you watch him shrug off the coverage and run away from guys. Anyway, I'll save all that for later.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 02:07 PM
Quote:
But yep, if we like Griffin, and HAVE to move up, then move up. We'll know if someone is trying to move up. The Rams aren't going to keep that secret...they want us in the bidding.
It depends on how much you like him... you have to think he is significantly better (almost sure thing franchise QB better) to make it worth moving up.. heck you have to think he is significantly better to take him at 4 in the first place. You don't use the #4 pick in the draft or the #4 pick combined with other high picks to get marginally better at a position... so they could like him, but IMHO they have to really love him to trade up and like him a whole lot to take him at #4.
As for Blackmon, I think he is better than Little but I think he is head and shoulders above Cribbs/Norwood/Whoever... and that's the thing about WRs, you play with more than one at a time.. so Blackmon wouldn't be replacing Little, he would be complimenting him and pushing one of the other guys off the field... I think Blackmon has much better hands and greater athletic ability at going to get the ball.. and he is great with the ball after the catch.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 02:27 PM
Quote:Quote:
Or, we could just draft Justin Blackmon.
Do you think Blackmon is a stud receiver or maybe the best of a group that lacks a little??
Serious question.
My feeling is Blackmon is a bit like Little...a big guy with good enough hands. I just think the guy plays a little slow, or maybe I should say he doesn't play fast. Does that make sense.
At least for me, I am hoping we add a little more speed opposite Little, who I think is on his way to being a plus receiver in the league.
A few years ago I was real excited about Calvin Johnson. I just don't feel the same about Blackmon. I think I would rather have Floyd or Sanu who we could get later in round 1.
Floyd and Sanu are sloooooooow possession receivers too.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 02:29 PM
I appreciate Jester and your opinions.
I don't doubt he is good. Just not sure if he is #4 good, but you have seen him way more than I.
I don't doubt he is good. Just not sure if he is #4 good, but you have seen him way more than I.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 02:30 PM
1) I'm not a draft guru by any stretch of the imagination. As everyone knows, I am a Blackmon fan. In the games of his I watched, I didn't see anything that would lead me to believe he WON'T be a stud WR in this league. Now is he worth the # 4 pick? To me he is, but that's my very biased opinion. I won't be mad if we draft someone else who the FO feels is better.
2) Back to the point of this topic, RGIII. I saw nothing of him in college (outside of highlights and that ridiculous bowl game for a few minutes), so I can't say he's worth it or not. I know I think that I'd rather get 2 first rounders out of this draft than just one. But, if RGIII is our Manning or Brady, then he's worth it.
I just don't want to sacrifice high picks next year. If we're going to lose some picks this year, fine. I just don't want us to not be able to put some good young pieces around him next year.
JMHO
2) Back to the point of this topic, RGIII. I saw nothing of him in college (outside of highlights and that ridiculous bowl game for a few minutes), so I can't say he's worth it or not. I know I think that I'd rather get 2 first rounders out of this draft than just one. But, if RGIII is our Manning or Brady, then he's worth it.
I just don't want to sacrifice high picks next year. If we're going to lose some picks this year, fine. I just don't want us to not be able to put some good young pieces around him next year.
JMHO
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 03:10 PM
Quote:
I appreciate Jester and your opinions.
I don't doubt he is good. Just not sure if he is #4 good, but you have seen him way more than I.
I had a flippen dream last night...
We Signed???
Mario Williams...
We took???
Claiborne at 4...
Joe Adams in Rnd 3...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 03:15 PM
signing Mario Williams would make our draft look really good.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 03:27 PM
Quote:Quote:
I appreciate Jester and your opinions.
I don't doubt he is good. Just not sure if he is #4 good, but you have seen him way more than I.
I had a flippen dream last night...
We Signed???
Mario Williams...
We took???
Claiborne at 4...
Joe Adams in Rnd 3...
that's the same dream that Dick Jauron has every night.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 03:54 PM
Personally I do think that Blackmon is a stud receiver. Super stud like Calvin Johnson or Fitzgerald? No but in that 2nd tier like Andre Johnson.
Umm when did the league's best receiver become 2nd tier? Johnson was hampered with a hamstring injury last year but he is still the best in the league at gaining separation and has never had a halfway decent #2. If Blackmon had Johnson's hands, route running ability and explosion, he would be the #1 prospect in this draft.
Umm when did the league's best receiver become 2nd tier? Johnson was hampered with a hamstring injury last year but he is still the best in the league at gaining separation and has never had a halfway decent #2. If Blackmon had Johnson's hands, route running ability and explosion, he would be the #1 prospect in this draft.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 04:12 PM
Quote:
If Blackmon had Johnson's hands, route running ability and explosion, he would be the #1 prospect in this draft.
Why? Andre Johnson has his hands, route running ability and explosion and he went #3 behind Carson Palmer and Charles Rogers... just as Blackmon will probably go 3-5 behind a QB or two and a potential franchise LT...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 04:13 PM
And if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle.
I don't think it's fair to compare Blackmon to Fitz, Megatron or Andre Johnson. Those guys are elite elite elite. Even I'm not going to say he's on par with those guys. But, not many are, not even AJ Green, IMO.
But, again, IMO, I think he is a difference maker and a playmaker. I'd have no problem taking him at number 4. But, as I said before, I'm biased.
I don't think it's fair to compare Blackmon to Fitz, Megatron or Andre Johnson. Those guys are elite elite elite. Even I'm not going to say he's on par with those guys. But, not many are, not even AJ Green, IMO.
But, again, IMO, I think he is a difference maker and a playmaker. I'd have no problem taking him at number 4. But, as I said before, I'm biased.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 04:16 PM
Quote:Quote:
I appreciate Jester and your opinions.
I don't doubt he is good. Just not sure if he is #4 good, but you have seen him way more than I.
I had a flippen dream last night...
We Signed???
Mario Williams...
We took???
Claiborne at 4...
Joe Adams in Rnd 3...
It had to have made going out in public w/ no clothes on so much easier . . .
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 04:19 PM
Quote:
I don't think it's fair to compare Blackmon to Fitz, Megatron or Andre Johnson. Those guys are elite elite elite. Even I'm not going to say he's on par with those guys. But, not many are, not even AJ Green, IMO.
Of course it's fair.. yes they are the cream of the crop but all 3 of the ones you listed went 2 or 3 in the draft which is where we are discussing taking Blackmon... if we were discussing taking him 10-15 then compare him to others taken in that range. If we take him at 4 and he turns out to be just a shade less than those guys I think we will still have done ok but who else are we supposed to compare him to?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 04:28 PM
Quote:
And if my aunt had nuts she'd be my uncle.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 04:29 PM
I posted about this very scenario a week or so ago. Overpay for Mario and add Claiborne, move Brown over to FS and add a Danny Trevathon or someone with similar skills in the middle of the draft and you have a defense good enough to get you to the Super Bowl.
22 and 37 who knows work the draft and maybe come out of there with Tannehill and Cordy Glenn.
22 and 37 who knows work the draft and maybe come out of there with Tannehill and Cordy Glenn.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 04:31 PM
Just a general reply...
Did you ever notice how most threads become QB threads? This thread was a QB thread...Its very interesting to see how things change directions.
Did you ever notice how most threads become QB threads? This thread was a QB thread...Its very interesting to see how things change directions.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 05:11 PM
WOW, I hadn't even noticed til you pointed it out. Bizarre . . .
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 05:55 PM
Quote:
Personally I do think that Blackmon is a stud receiver. Super stud like Calvin Johnson or Fitzgerald? No but in that 2nd tier like Andre Johnson.
Umm when did the league's best receiver become 2nd tier? Johnson was hampered with a hamstring injury last year but he is still the best in the league at gaining separation and has never had a halfway decent #2. If Blackmon had Johnson's hands, route running ability and explosion, he would be the #1 prospect in this draft.
I think he was referring to him as a prospect some years back -- where he was less touted than Rogers.
Honestly I don't remember this draft well enough to have any firm ideas on what people thought of Johnson though.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 06:54 PM
Quote:
Honestly I don't remember this draft well enough to have any firm ideas on what people thought of Johnson though.
They thought he was a 220 lb wr that ran a 4.3.
T_
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 08:26 PM
Quote:
Honestly I don't remember this draft well enough to have any firm ideas on what people thought of Johnson though.
If anybody but the Raiders would have had the #1 pick, he probably would have been the #1 pick in the draft... but they took Jamarcus Russell..
... then the Lions took Johnson, then we took some OL guy..... Do you remember what they said about Adrian Peterson in the draft? Well Calvin Johnson went 5 spots ahead of him to a team whose best RB option was Kevin Jones.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 08:36 PM
i believe he was talking about Andre there not Calvin
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/23/12 08:37 PM
Yeah - sorry, Andre Johnson -- I remember Calvin being #1 on almost everybody's big board.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 03:06 PM
Guessing this is in the combine thread, but since this is the RG3 thread. Or one of the thousands we have going I'd post it here . . .
Height not a problem for Robert Griffin III
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 24, 2012, 9:14 AM EST
Robert Griffin III measures up just fine to be an NFL quarterback.
Before the Scouting Combine some concerns were raised that Griffin, Baylor’s Heisman-Trophy winning quarterback, was too short for the position. But Griffin was measured today, and according to multiple reporters on the scene, Griffin came in at six feet, two and three-eighths inches. There was talk that Griffin might be shorter than the 6-foot-2 that Baylor listed him as, but the reality that he’s almost half an inch taller than that should put to bed any concerns about his height.
It’s fair to ask whether height ever should have been a concern in the first place. Griffin was a giant on the field at Baylor, and 6-foot-0 quarterbacks like Drew Brees and Michael Vick have called into question whether the premium that scouts put on height at the quarterback position is misplaced.
Now all 32 teams know exactly how tall Griffin is.
I'd post it here . . .Height not a problem for Robert Griffin III
Posted by Michael David Smith on February 24, 2012, 9:14 AM EST
Robert Griffin III measures up just fine to be an NFL quarterback.
Before the Scouting Combine some concerns were raised that Griffin, Baylor’s Heisman-Trophy winning quarterback, was too short for the position. But Griffin was measured today, and according to multiple reporters on the scene, Griffin came in at six feet, two and three-eighths inches. There was talk that Griffin might be shorter than the 6-foot-2 that Baylor listed him as, but the reality that he’s almost half an inch taller than that should put to bed any concerns about his height.
It’s fair to ask whether height ever should have been a concern in the first place. Griffin was a giant on the field at Baylor, and 6-foot-0 quarterbacks like Drew Brees and Michael Vick have called into question whether the premium that scouts put on height at the quarterback position is misplaced.
Now all 32 teams know exactly how tall Griffin is.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 03:18 PM
Thats it ! Im sold. 3/8" is gonna make the difference. 
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 03:27 PM
J/C
Thought this would go well here:
1. The Rams are open for a trade: With the second pick in the draft, the St. Louis Rams could be very active this week in fielding offers for teams interested in trading up for Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III. Seahawks general manager John Schneider, who has either the 11th or 12th pick in the draft depending on Friday's coin flip, thinks the Seahawks are too far away from the No. 2 pick to make a deal. Plus, the Rams are in the same division as Seattle, and they wouldn't want to give Griffin to a rival. That leaves the Browns, Redskins and Dolphins as teams in the draft with a top-10 pick that could go after Griffin. The Browns draft No. 4 and might have to give up their other pick in the first round. The Redskins draft sixth, and because they aren't interested in unsigned Green Bay backup quarterback Matt Flynn, what would make sense is working on a trade to get something done as early as this week. If the Redskins made the right offers this week -- and we have had draft-choice trades made before the trade deadline and at the combine -- the Redskins could get to No. 2. The two main options for the Redskins are Griffin or Manning.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7607498/rams-fielding-offers-no-2-pick-essentially-rg3
Thought this would go well here:
1. The Rams are open for a trade: With the second pick in the draft, the St. Louis Rams could be very active this week in fielding offers for teams interested in trading up for Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III. Seahawks general manager John Schneider, who has either the 11th or 12th pick in the draft depending on Friday's coin flip, thinks the Seahawks are too far away from the No. 2 pick to make a deal. Plus, the Rams are in the same division as Seattle, and they wouldn't want to give Griffin to a rival. That leaves the Browns, Redskins and Dolphins as teams in the draft with a top-10 pick that could go after Griffin. The Browns draft No. 4 and might have to give up their other pick in the first round. The Redskins draft sixth, and because they aren't interested in unsigned Green Bay backup quarterback Matt Flynn, what would make sense is working on a trade to get something done as early as this week. If the Redskins made the right offers this week -- and we have had draft-choice trades made before the trade deadline and at the combine -- the Redskins could get to No. 2. The two main options for the Redskins are Griffin or Manning.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7607498/rams-fielding-offers-no-2-pick-essentially-rg3
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:03 PM
Quote:
Thats it ! Im sold. 3/8" is gonna make the difference.
I still think we're good for another 280 mentions of the pictures of RG3 and Luck side by side at the Heisman ceremony between now and the draft . . .
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:06 PM
Quote:ABF, dude, you GOTTA change your sig!
Thats it ! Im sold. 3/8" is gonna make the difference.
You need to add today's date to it as well. I thought there'd be no way in Hell Griffin would measure 6'2 and 3/8th's.
That is an extremely pleasant surprise for me.
As a side note, it's crazy to envision that 2" on a guy's height would make a world of difference, but in the NFL, it truly does.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:09 PM
Quote:
As a side note, it's crazy to envision that 2" on a guy's height would make a world of difference, but in the NFL, it truly does.
At least it does for armchair GMs.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:13 PM
6' 2 1/2" and 223...Sounds good 2 me...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:19 PM
Well, yes, and no. Sure, it makes for great message board banter, but why is that? Because it has no merit in the real world? No, it's only an issue for us because it's an issue for the real gm's.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:23 PM
Then why was he the likely #2 pick before he was measured and the likely #2 pick after he was measured? The same teams that were talked about moving up for him before are the ones being talked about it now. Is he going to cost more draft picks now that people know he is 6'2"+ when they thought he might be 6'1"?
I think this conversation would carry more weight if the Colts decided to draft RGIII over Luck due to him coming in over 6'2", but in reality absolutely nothing has changed.
I think this conversation would carry more weight if the Colts decided to draft RGIII over Luck due to him coming in over 6'2", but in reality absolutely nothing has changed.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:35 PM
Yep, that answers that question.
Some people laughed when I posted that picture of Griffin standing beside Luck and said that they were about the same height ... with Luck being maybe half an inch taller.
Wanna bet that Luck comes in about 6'3"?
Some people laughed when I posted that picture of Griffin standing beside Luck and said that they were about the same height ... with Luck being maybe half an inch taller.
Wanna bet that Luck comes in about 6'3"?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:42 PM
j/c
This would not happen, IMO, but what if, due to the combine and pro days, the Colts fall in love with RGIII and draft him. Could you imagine the ridiculous bidding war for the no. 2 slot?
This would not happen, IMO, but what if, due to the combine and pro days, the Colts fall in love with RGIII and draft him. Could you imagine the ridiculous bidding war for the no. 2 slot?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 04:57 PM
Quote:
6' 2 1/2" and 223...Sounds good 2 me...
Way to exaggerate and give him that extra 1/8"... sheesh, you RGIII pimps will stop at nothing.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:00 PM
Quote:
j/c
This would not happen, IMO, but what if, due to the combine and pro days, the Colts fall in love with RGIII and draft him. Could you imagine the ridiculous bidding war for the no. 2 slot?
And Kiper gets yet another shot at the Colts FO...lmao...1994 Part II...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:07 PM
Because mobile QB's have a much greater ability to mask their lack of height and/or size. However, if the larger discussion is about QB's in general, take a fringe 1st rounder who was advertised at 6'3 but measures in around 6'1. That'd make a difference to the GM's. We have one of those here, and by all accounts we're looking to replace him, partially because of his size and the problem's created by it.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:11 PM
Note the article talking about the Redskins wanting to make a trade for #2 now. That makes sense from their perspective (ie they probably want RGIII more than Manning for cap/health/longevity reasons). I cannot imagine the Browns getting involved in a pre-draft bidding war and thus, if Washington offers a good package, the Rams may have to take it or risk being left with no offers on draft day.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:13 PM
Quote:
Wanna bet that Luck comes in about 6'3"?
He measured 6'4".
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:17 PM
Oh well .... 1 out of 2 ain't bad.
It didn't look like they had that much of a difference in height.
Height shouldn't be a problem in either case.
Prior to the combine, I was kinda thinking ...... "What happens if RG3 comes in at 6' even, and Luck comes in at 6'1"?
It didn't look like they had that much of a difference in height.
Height shouldn't be a problem in either case.
Prior to the combine, I was kinda thinking ...... "What happens if RG3 comes in at 6' even, and Luck comes in at 6'1"?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:25 PM
Just a general question. Why do they always exaggerate height or so it seems in college? Osweiler measured 6'6" but ASU listed him at 6'8".
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:27 PM
Quote:
6' 2 1/2" and 223...Sounds good 2 me...
When I saw the pic of him standing next to luck I always felt he was more 6'3 than 6'1
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:29 PM
I almost think that some schools take a player's word on it .......
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:36 PM
Because they want their players to be bigger in the media guide.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 05:44 PM
Absolutely. However, what I can't figure out is why they would have listed Osweiler at 6'8. There's actually a negative stigma attached to a guy that height, thanks in large part to Dan McGuire. They didn't really gain anything by it. That's the confusing part. They kinda did that kid a disservice, and if I were him, when I get to the NFL, have my first prime-time game, and get asked to give my 5-second cut where I say my name and the school I attended, my answer would be "Brock Osweiler, Francois McGillicutty Elementary School. "
"
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:01 PM
Quote:
J/C
Thought this would go well here:
1. The Rams are open for a trade: With the second pick in the draft, the St. Louis Rams could be very active this week in fielding offers for teams interested in trading up for Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III. Seahawks general manager John Schneider, who has either the 11th or 12th pick in the draft depending on Friday's coin flip, thinks the Seahawks are too far away from the No. 2 pick to make a deal. Plus, the Rams are in the same division as Seattle, and they wouldn't want to give Griffin to a rival. That leaves the Browns, Redskins and Dolphins as teams in the draft with a top-10 pick that could go after Griffin. The Browns draft No. 4 and might have to give up their other pick in the first round. The Redskins draft sixth, and because they aren't interested in unsigned Green Bay backup quarterback Matt Flynn, what would make sense is working on a trade to get something done as early as this week. If the Redskins made the right offers this week -- and we have had draft-choice trades made before the trade deadline and at the combine -- the Redskins could get to No. 2. The two main options for the Redskins are Griffin or Manning.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2012/story/_/id/7607498/rams-fielding-offers-no-2-pick-essentially-rg3
NOW WATCH THIS!
If the Browns trade up, and give up the #4 and #22 picks for the #2 pick, then the Browns will have gotten Hustled by the Rams.
Period.
Bottom Line.
It took too much for the Browns to get that 22 pick, the fact that if the Rams want that pick shouldn't concern the Browns organization in the least.
Let the Rams live with their own mistakes you don't have to help them.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:03 PM
All heck would break loose on this board if the Skins and Rams did a trade this week. Oh my god would it be fun! (Not saying it would be good for the Browns, but it would be F-U-N!) If I really wanted the 2, I'd be trying to do something now as well. If I'm the Rams, I say, "Well, we've already been offered this, so you have to better that deal." The Rams can't lose - even if they stay at 2.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:08 PM
Huh?
I would say if we only have to give up the 4 and 22 we got a steal.
According to the Trade Value chart the 4th pick is worth 1800 and the 22nd pick is worth 780. Doing some quick math that equals....
2580.
The 2nd pick is worth 2600.
So we would be giving up less than the trade value chart says we should. And that's not even considering that high picks are probably more valuable nowadays because you don't have to sign rookies to $70 million guaranteed contracts.
Huh?
Didn't everyone say the Falcons gave up too much to move up? How did we now give up too much?
What does that even mean?
I would say if we only have to give up the 4 and 22 we got a steal.
According to the Trade Value chart the 4th pick is worth 1800 and the 22nd pick is worth 780. Doing some quick math that equals....
2580.
The 2nd pick is worth 2600.
So we would be giving up less than the trade value chart says we should. And that's not even considering that high picks are probably more valuable nowadays because you don't have to sign rookies to $70 million guaranteed contracts.
Quote:
It took too much for the Browns to get that 22 pick
Huh?
Didn't everyone say the Falcons gave up too much to move up? How did we now give up too much?
Quote:
Let the Rams live with their own mistakes you don't have to help them.
What does that even mean?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:13 PM
Ive read it 3 times, and Im just as confused as you.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:30 PM
First of all anyone who mentions that trade value chart loses all credibility with me. It's one mans opinion made up some years ago and totaly arbitraury. It's completely wrong about the value of top picks to begin with, and I base that on trades from the past.
The League would Love for the hapless Browns to stay hapless and grab RG3 who is gonna be the biggest bust since Brady Quinn, and the leauge wouldn't mind seeing the Rams get better, and the best way for the Rams to get better might be to get more picks, and what better picks to get than the Browns 2 first rounders. ( Maybe the Bengals 2 first rounders but that isnt going to happen. )
It cost the Browns 365 days of waiting, a whole year before that 22 pick can be added to the team and you begin to get any value whatsoever.
The #2 overall pick is not worth 2 first rounders when you are sitting at 4. The # 2 overall pick doesn't even come close to worth 2 first rounders unless you are sitting in the high 20's or later for your first pick in the draft.
The Rams would love to trade down because No matter what it is all a "vegas game" shoot and the Rams don't know who to take better than anyone.
at #2, the Rams can only take a shoot at 1 player, and whoever they take, their stuck with, and they can't take 2 players, unless they hustle someone into trading up for their useless 1 pick.
Whoever they take, You can take the other guy, and they are stuck with their decision, good or bad, make them stay at #2, it makes the Browns stronger.
The League would Love for the hapless Browns to stay hapless and grab RG3 who is gonna be the biggest bust since Brady Quinn, and the leauge wouldn't mind seeing the Rams get better, and the best way for the Rams to get better might be to get more picks, and what better picks to get than the Browns 2 first rounders. ( Maybe the Bengals 2 first rounders but that isnt going to happen. )
It cost the Browns 365 days of waiting, a whole year before that 22 pick can be added to the team and you begin to get any value whatsoever.
The #2 overall pick is not worth 2 first rounders when you are sitting at 4. The # 2 overall pick doesn't even come close to worth 2 first rounders unless you are sitting in the high 20's or later for your first pick in the draft.
The Rams would love to trade down because No matter what it is all a "vegas game" shoot and the Rams don't know who to take better than anyone.
at #2, the Rams can only take a shoot at 1 player, and whoever they take, their stuck with, and they can't take 2 players, unless they hustle someone into trading up for their useless 1 pick.
Whoever they take, You can take the other guy, and they are stuck with their decision, good or bad, make them stay at #2, it makes the Browns stronger.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:32 PM
Why would the league like to see the Rams do better?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:36 PM
Quote:
Ive read it 3 times, and Im just as confused as you.
I've read the NEXT one at least that many and still have no idea what he's talking about.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:38 PM
Quote:I reference the trade-value chart all the time.
First of all anyone who mentions that trade value chart loses all credibility with me.
Welp. that's it then. I'm out.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:40 PM
The ONLY people dumb enough to ever use that chart are coaches and team GM's, so it's not like it carries any weight at all.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:41 PM
...Buncha dopes...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:44 PM
"The League would Love for the hapless Browns to stay hapless"
I'm not sure if it's The League as much as it is the CIA or the Mafia,maybe the Cubans,or those guys on the grassy knoll.
I'm not sure if it's The League as much as it is the CIA or the Mafia,maybe the Cubans,or those guys on the grassy knoll.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:45 PM
Also, Al Qaeda.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:47 PM
I love when the response is even more crazy than the original post.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:47 PM
Quote:
The League would Love for the hapless Browns to stay hapless
I would say that the league would love for the Browns to be good.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:51 PM
some people are difficult to top, though.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 06:56 PM
Quote:
Just a general question. Why do they always exaggerate height or so it seems in college? Osweiler measured 6'6" but ASU listed him at 6'8".
at my HS they measured and weighed us with our cleats and pads on.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:04 PM
Just like the Tampa Bay Bucs of the 1980's, along with the Falcons and Saints of that era, the league wants the bad teams to stay bad.
The Rams had the " greatest show on turf" about a decade ago, while the Browns have had been largely bad since around 1994 at least.
The Browns, by perception have become as bad as the Buc's of the 80's and Media outlets, sports writers, and league wide talking heads in general, will all continue to suggest "also rans" would be a great fit in Cleveland.
The Rams had the " greatest show on turf" about a decade ago, while the Browns have had been largely bad since around 1994 at least.
The Browns, by perception have become as bad as the Buc's of the 80's and Media outlets, sports writers, and league wide talking heads in general, will all continue to suggest "also rans" would be a great fit in Cleveland.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:06 PM
I....um....geesh
I'm at a loss
I'm at a loss
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:07 PM
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:09 PM
Quote:
Absolutely. However, what I can't figure out is why they would have listed Osweiler at 6'8. There's actually a negative stigma attached to a guy that height, thanks in large part to Dan McGuire. They didn't really gain anything by it. That's the confusing part. They kinda did that kid a disservice, and if I were him, when I get to the NFL, have my first prime-time game, and get asked to give my 5-second cut where I say my name and the school I attended, my answer would be "Brock Osweiler, Francois McGillicutty Elementary School.
Maybe they were using his listed Basketball height?
It would be odd if the basketball team was listing him at 6'9" and the football team was simultaneously listing him at 6'5"
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:13 PM
Quote:
Just like the Tampa Bay Bucs of the 1980's, along with the Falcons and Saints of that era, the league wants the bad teams to stay bad.
The Rams had the " greatest show on turf" about a decade ago, while the Browns have had been largely bad since around 1994 at least.
The Browns, by perception have become as bad as the Buc's of the 80's and Media outlets, sports writers, and league wide talking heads in general, will all continue to suggest "also rans" would be a great fit in Cleveland.
Are you on drugs?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:14 PM
oh no he di'int.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:14 PM
Certainly possible. Don't know the benefit of going with the basketball height when his ticket to riches go through the NFL...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:14 PM
Quote:
Quote:I reference the trade-value chart all the time.
First of all anyone who mentions that trade value chart loses all credibility with me.
Welp. that's it then. I'm out.
The problem I see with the chart is that it doesn't take into affect the true value of the talent, and moreso the drop off of said talent in any given draft.
If there is only 5 "Sure hits" in the top of the draft, then the #6 pick would be worth a lot less considering the perceived drop in talent after those top 5 are gone.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:16 PM
Quote:
This is all I could think about
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:19 PM
Quote:
Certainly possible.
is it bad that I thought you were responding to CBFan when I read this part and was nodding my head?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:20 PM
The history of the chart indicates it's a guide, not gospel. For a brief time the "it" thing to do during the draft was to follow JJ's chart without question. It hasn't been followed down to the exact number for quite a while.
While I understand why you used that example of 5 top guys, I am curious if you actually feel there are 5 can't miss guys, then a serious drop-off at 6, and if so, who they might be.
While I understand why you used that example of 5 top guys, I am curious if you actually feel there are 5 can't miss guys, then a serious drop-off at 6, and if so, who they might be.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:21 PM
The draft day trade value points chart is one of the top 10 biggest problems with the NFL today.
You can't just stick to a chart and not do a trade because the " manual" says not too, or you didn't get your 50 points, so someone would have to throw in a practice squad player, or something like that.
If one side wants a trade, and the other side considers it and agrees to it, and it makes sense, win win for both teams, and the league allows it. Then do it. Any " Chart " is ludicris, Why?
It is ludicris because so many variables change all the time.
The Raiders traded 2 first rounders for Carson Palmer to the Bengals Mid season last year, the week that their own quarterback went down with an injury .
Show me any Chart that can value either side of that trade with the same value when you factor in the injury, or if you factored in if the injury didn't happen.
Even if you don't consider all the changes to all of the variables that occur in any given draft, like the order of the teams, the high value they assign to top draft picks is not including the detriment of the pressure a team has to make the right decision on a pick that is higher, rather than lower.
An example, Kamerion Wimbley, vs Haloti Gnatta, the team that picks first has more pressure to get it right. It's less of a struggle to pick the good guy who is left, than to try and seccure the best of three good guys when three are left.
You can't just stick to a chart and not do a trade because the " manual" says not too, or you didn't get your 50 points, so someone would have to throw in a practice squad player, or something like that.
If one side wants a trade, and the other side considers it and agrees to it, and it makes sense, win win for both teams, and the league allows it. Then do it. Any " Chart " is ludicris, Why?
It is ludicris because so many variables change all the time.
The Raiders traded 2 first rounders for Carson Palmer to the Bengals Mid season last year, the week that their own quarterback went down with an injury .
Show me any Chart that can value either side of that trade with the same value when you factor in the injury, or if you factored in if the injury didn't happen.
Even if you don't consider all the changes to all of the variables that occur in any given draft, like the order of the teams, the high value they assign to top draft picks is not including the detriment of the pressure a team has to make the right decision on a pick that is higher, rather than lower.
An example, Kamerion Wimbley, vs Haloti Gnatta, the team that picks first has more pressure to get it right. It's less of a struggle to pick the good guy who is left, than to try and seccure the best of three good guys when three are left.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:23 PM
Luck
RGIII
Blackmon
Kalil
Claiborne
That's my order. I agree, big gap in value over next player at position from there on. I think there are no top-10 DEs in this draft. I like Kirkpatrick, he's probably closest to this group for me.
RGIII
Blackmon
Kalil
Claiborne
That's my order. I agree, big gap in value over next player at position from there on. I think there are no top-10 DEs in this draft. I like Kirkpatrick, he's probably closest to this group for me.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:23 PM
Quote:
Haloti Gnatta
For some reason, I found this hilarious.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:24 PM
As several of the posted articles point out (and one on Grantland today), the value chart is not applicable under the new CBA, as the cost of those high picks in dollars has gone down a ton, thus making them much more valuable.
Also, as I said above, I think Washington is going to put a take it or leave it offer on the table to the Rams and leave them in a real pickle since I doubt we make a bid this far before the draft. If the Rams play ball, I think the Redskins make that trade and take RGIII, if the Rams don't I think the Redskins sign Manning/Flynn (and thus get out of the game). With no other team interested in RGIII picking high, the Rams are going to be forced to take the Redskins offer or get a much worse package on draft day (or use the pick). There is no way we bid this early and thus, I think the Rams take the Redskins offer (and so goes RGIII).
Also, as I said above, I think Washington is going to put a take it or leave it offer on the table to the Rams and leave them in a real pickle since I doubt we make a bid this far before the draft. If the Rams play ball, I think the Redskins make that trade and take RGIII, if the Rams don't I think the Redskins sign Manning/Flynn (and thus get out of the game). With no other team interested in RGIII picking high, the Rams are going to be forced to take the Redskins offer or get a much worse package on draft day (or use the pick). There is no way we bid this early and thus, I think the Rams take the Redskins offer (and so goes RGIII).
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:24 PM
Quote:...certainly possible.Quote:
Certainly possible.
is it bad that I thought you were responding to CBFan when I read this part and was nodding my head?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:27 PM
Well, as mentioned, the chart is a guide, not gospel.
Anyone?
Quote:I....I need help with this one.
It's less of a struggle to pick the good guy who is left, than to try and seccure the best of three good guys when three are left.
Anyone?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:29 PM
He's saying the Rams are chicken for trading back and taking either Kalil or Blackmon, whichever Minny doesn't pick, instead of choosing one.
I think.
I think.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:30 PM
Quote:
It's less of a struggle to pick the good guy who is left, than to try and seccure the best of three good guys when three are left.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I....I need help with this one.
Anyone?
At this point, I'm strictly an observer!
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:31 PM
I think it's like this. Say RGIII is there for us to pick. Isn't it easier to pick him than to not pick him, thereby picking someone who we didn't NOT pick, though we had to probably decide that maybe the guy we really wanted to pick either had already been picked or hadn't been picked, even if those guys don't not get picked by the teams who had or hadn't been bad in an era when bad teams stayed bad but good teams had once been bad but now aren't bad, though they probably will be bad again at some point, unless they aren't bad when they aren't not bad.
I mean, if you can't figure that out, I'm sorry.
I mean, if you can't figure that out, I'm sorry.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:31 PM
Quote:
Luck
RGIII
Blackmon
Kalil
Claiborne
That's my order. I agree, big gap in value over next player at position from there on. I think there are no top-10 DEs in this draft. I like Kirkpatrick, he's probably closest to this group for me.
Reiff would be up there for me too. Just outside this group.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:32 PM
Apparently, if Shurmur is confronted by the option to pick RG3, Kalil OR Claiborne, he will become confused, and accidentally draft Adrian Peterson (Chicago Bears).
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:33 PM
Quote:
The Raiders traded 2 first rounders for Carson Palmer to the Bengals Mid season last year, the week that their own quarterback went down with an injury .
Show me any Chart that can value either side of that trade with the same value when you factor in the injury, or if you factored in if the injury didn't happen.
well, if they had a GM acting with cold calculation rather than a HC trying to save his job, then they probably don't make what could go down as the most bone-headed trade of the last decade.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:38 PM
Robert Griffin III wins the press conference
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 24, 2012, 2:23 PM EST
APRobert Griffin III stepped up to the podium at the Combine Friday, surveyed the massive throng of reporters getting in position, and whispered under his breath, “It’s really official now.”
With a microphone nearby, even that comment was audible to those in the front few rows. Everything Griffin says and does over the next decade is going to be scrutinized. It’s hard to imagine another young man more ready for the responsibility.
It’s only a press conference, but Griffin couldn’t have been more impressive, comfortable, intelligent, and funny on Friday. Press conferences are part of the gig to being an NFL quarterback. Teams like the Browns, Redskins, and Dolphins have to be excited about trying to make Griffin the face of their franchise.
“I hope somebody falls in love with me — other than my fiancée,” Griffin said when asked about the Browns possibly “falling in love” with him.
Some highlights from the session:
1. Griffin won’t throw at the Combine, just his Pro Day.
2. He wore Ninja Turtle socks Friday. Naturally.
3. On playing a lot of out of the shotgun: “It’s not the traditional spread where we’re playing out of shotgun all the time. Although we are in shotgun a lot. So was Tom Brady and Eli Manning in the Super Bowl, but that’s beside the point.”
4. The Eagles met with Griffin Thursday night. He will meet with the Chiefs and Browns Friday night. He mentioned the Browns and Redskins as West Coast offenses he could fit in. Griffin said it would be “an honor to play the Browns.”
5. On possibly playing for the Colts: “I’ve talked to Peyton a few times. It’d be amazing for him to play out his career here — and to play behind him. . . . It would be an honor to sit back and learn. I’d hold that clipboard with pride.”
6. On suggestions the Baylor offense is simple: “I’d like to sit down with those folks and show how simple it is. It’s not a simple offense. It’s a great offense. It’s a quarterback friendly offense, but simple would not be the word to describe it.”
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 24, 2012, 2:23 PM EST
APRobert Griffin III stepped up to the podium at the Combine Friday, surveyed the massive throng of reporters getting in position, and whispered under his breath, “It’s really official now.”
With a microphone nearby, even that comment was audible to those in the front few rows. Everything Griffin says and does over the next decade is going to be scrutinized. It’s hard to imagine another young man more ready for the responsibility.
It’s only a press conference, but Griffin couldn’t have been more impressive, comfortable, intelligent, and funny on Friday. Press conferences are part of the gig to being an NFL quarterback. Teams like the Browns, Redskins, and Dolphins have to be excited about trying to make Griffin the face of their franchise.
“I hope somebody falls in love with me — other than my fiancée,” Griffin said when asked about the Browns possibly “falling in love” with him.
Some highlights from the session:
1. Griffin won’t throw at the Combine, just his Pro Day.
2. He wore Ninja Turtle socks Friday. Naturally.
3. On playing a lot of out of the shotgun: “It’s not the traditional spread where we’re playing out of shotgun all the time. Although we are in shotgun a lot. So was Tom Brady and Eli Manning in the Super Bowl, but that’s beside the point.”
4. The Eagles met with Griffin Thursday night. He will meet with the Chiefs and Browns Friday night. He mentioned the Browns and Redskins as West Coast offenses he could fit in. Griffin said it would be “an honor to play the Browns.”
5. On possibly playing for the Colts: “I’ve talked to Peyton a few times. It’d be amazing for him to play out his career here — and to play behind him. . . . It would be an honor to sit back and learn. I’d hold that clipboard with pride.”
6. On suggestions the Baylor offense is simple: “I’d like to sit down with those folks and show how simple it is. It’s not a simple offense. It’s a great offense. It’s a quarterback friendly offense, but simple would not be the word to describe it.”
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:39 PM
Quote:'79, the double-negative tied it all together into a harmony of synchronized logic.
I think it's like this. Say RGIII is there for us to pick. Isn't it easier to pick him than to not pick him, thereby picking someone who we didn't NOT pick, though we had to probably decide that maybe the guy we really wanted to pick either had already been picked or hadn't been picked, even if those guys don't not get picked by the teams who had or hadn't been bad in an era when bad teams stayed bad but good teams had once been bad but now aren't bad, though they probably will be bad again at some point, unless they aren't bad when they aren't not bad.
I mean, if you can't figure that out, I'm sorry.
and I like cheese.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:40 PM
I think all teams use the value chart to at least start the discussions. What other scale system is there ? Heck when we did the trade with The Falcons last year, Mike Mayock was spouting what we would probably get in picks before it was even announced.
Toad.. Yea I gotta come up with another signature for a refresher. Just accurately predict for all of us, WHO will be the starting QB for the Browns this year and maybe you can redeem yourself
Toad.. Yea I gotta come up with another signature for a refresher. Just accurately predict for all of us, WHO will be the starting QB for the Browns this year and maybe you can redeem yourself
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:41 PM
Charlie Frye!
(what year is this?)
(what year is this?)
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:42 PM
Quote:
I think it's like this. Say RGIII is there for us to pick. Isn't it easier to pick him than to not pick him, thereby picking someone who we didn't NOT pick, though we had to probably decide that maybe the guy we really wanted to pick either had already been picked or hadn't been picked, even if those guys don't not get picked by the teams who had or hadn't been bad in an era when bad teams stayed bad but good teams had once been bad but now aren't bad, though they probably will be bad again at some point, unless they aren't bad when they aren't not bad.
I mean, if you can't figure that out, I'm sorry.
I can't not figure that out.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:46 PM
Quote:Quote:
I think it's like this. Say RGIII is there for us to pick. Isn't it easier to pick him than to not pick him, thereby picking someone who we didn't NOT pick, though we had to probably decide that maybe the guy we really wanted to pick either had already been picked or hadn't been picked, even if those guys don't not get picked by the teams who had or hadn't been bad in an era when bad teams stayed bad but good teams had once been bad but now aren't bad, though they probably will be bad again at some point, unless they aren't bad when they aren't not bad.
I mean, if you can't figure that out, I'm sorry.
I can't not figure that out.
Give's me a headache trying to... It's like Nicholson said about writing like a woman.. "I try to think like a man, and then remove all reason or logic"
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:47 PM
I don't know how I could make it any simpler.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:48 PM
Actually, it was "reason and accountability..." which is actually quite apropos for TL's diatribe about not not picking people. 
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:51 PM
Quote:
The Eagles met with Griffin Thursday night. He will meet with the Chiefs and Browns Friday night. He mentioned the Browns and Redskins as West Coast offenses he could fit in. Griffin said it would be “an honor to play the Browns.”
I wonder if he meant play FOR the Browns . . .
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 07:56 PM
Quote:
The Raiders traded 2 first rounders for Carson Palmer to the Bengals Mid season last year, the week that their own quarterback went down with an injury .
Show me any Chart that can value either side of that trade with the same value when you factor in the injury, or if you factored in if the injury didn't happen.
They didn't trade two first rounders. But that's besides the point. That trade was insane, it should never be used as an example for anything other than the fact that Hue Jackson is a crazy person. Also, the Raiders already had Kyle Boller on the roster, they should have just kept him as the starter.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:03 PM
Just clicking
sure seems to me that lots of folks are convinced the browns will do something to move up to get RG3.
1. I'm not convinced he won't be there at 4
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
Now maybe after the combine we will, or maybe after his pro-day we'll hear something. or maybe, it's fans and media that think he's all that and a bag of chips and the teams will let him fall like quinn or tebow or rodgers....
sure seems to me that lots of folks are convinced the browns will do something to move up to get RG3.
1. I'm not convinced he won't be there at 4
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
Now maybe after the combine we will, or maybe after his pro-day we'll hear something. or maybe, it's fans and media that think he's all that and a bag of chips and the teams will let him fall like quinn or tebow or rodgers....
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:05 PM
Quote:Do me a favor, D...
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
Next time you're entering a high-stakes poker game...please...I want in.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:08 PM
Quote:
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
http://blogs.nfl.com/2012/02/23/shurmur-browns-willing-to-deal-draft-picks/
Quote:
Cleveland Browns head coach Pat Shurmur speaks to the media during the 2012 NFL Scouting Combine. (Gary A. Vasquez/NFL)
INDIANAPOLIS — Forget everything you know about last autumn’s rather milquetoast Browns outfit.
Coach Pat Shurmur wants you to know that this team, with two first-round picks at its disposal, isn’t afraid to roll the dice come draft day.
“I wouldn’t say we’re hesitant to do anything,” Shurmur said during Thursday’s NFL Scouting Combine news conference. “We’re excited about the fact that we’re going to make our team better with this draft, and I think that’s the way we approach it. We’re not hesitant at all. …
“I think we’re willing (to move up). With two first-round picks (Nos. 4 and 22), we have flexibility. We can just stand pat and take two really fine players, guys that we hope would be starters for us. And then, obviously with two first-round picks, you have flexibility if you want to do something.”
It’s no confirmation that Cleveland will wheel and deal come draft day, but Shurmur has heard the rumors about chasing after Baylor’s Robert Griffin III, and the coach will not pass up the opportunity to spin the dynamic signal-caller through the car wash at this week’s combine.
Griffin remains a logical target for the Browns, but the suddenly daring Shurmur indicated that he and the boys (minus general manager Tom Heckert, who’s back in Cleveland sick) have yet to concede Andrew Luck to the No. 1-picking Colts: “Well, I don’t know how you want to say it or write that. But we’re going to talk to him.”
– Marc Sessler
do you need him to personally call your cell phone?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:Do me a favor, D...
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
Next time you're entering a high-stakes poker game...please...I want in.
I think there is some truth to that though - St. Louis is an odd tradeup partner for a few reasons:
1.) Neither St. Louis or Minnesota are a threat to pick RG3 themselves - usually you try to trade up to right before the team that you think will take him.
2.) The almost consensus second best player in this draft is Matt Kalil, who fills the greatest position of need (or one of the two anyway) for St. Louis -- even scouts who love RG3 usually have him at 3-4 on their big boards, and LT is the 2nd most valuable position in the NFL. St. Louis has a lot of reasons to stay put at #2, or require a bounty to move down.
3.) People stupidly make claims like "well, if we trade up to 3 to get RG3, then somebody will trade up to 2 and get him first" - but that's stupid.
Assume for a second that we are in the bidding war for RG3, we're certainly going to try to talk to both teams to bargain St. Louis and Minnesota against each other (just like Washington/Miami or any other interested party would do). We'll have deals set up with every team (and they'll have their set of deals set up). During St. Louis's pick, if they are about to make a trade with Miami - we'll certainly hear about it, and be asked if we want to beat it.
Conclusion - Just like Cleveland/Washington/Miami will be bidding against each other for RG3, Minnesota and St. Louis will be bidding for the chance to trade down and stockpile extra picks. The existence of Kalil as a perfect pick for the Rams means that their tradeup price should be much steeper than the Vikings.
So if there is a tradeup I think it is to #3, and not to #2.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:18 PM
Quote:
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
R u serious???...Seriously...R u serious???
U r getting sooooo close to Throw Long it's not even funny...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:26 PM
Quote:
Quote:
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
R u serious???...Seriously...R u serious???
U r getting sooooo close to Throw Long it's not even funny...
Well it depends on who you believe. I don't think any actual member of the Browns/Washington/Seattle leadership has come out and said they want to trade up. What we have heard is tons of so-called draft experts say that is what they are hearing. Now, since these draft experts have about a 10% rate of being correct, you just have to believe that this is the one time in 10 that they have it right.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:27 PM
RGIII is going #2. Someone will trade up to get him because they don't want will like him enough that they don't want there to be any chance another team gets him.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:28 PM
Quote:
Quote:Do me a favor, D...
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
Next time you're entering a high-stakes poker game...please...I want in.
Seriously, other than the typical, We've seen some film, he looks good kinda stuff.. has anyone in the browns actually said anything terribly commentment oriented? NO, they haven't
in fact, Shurmur has been pretty complimentary about McCoy..
I grant you, the whole thing could be a smokescreen.. most things are this time of year.
I do hope we get to play poker someday.. I'll clean you out
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:31 PM
Quote:Quote:
Quote:
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
R u serious???...Seriously...R u serious???
U r getting sooooo close to Throw Long it's not even funny...
Well it depends on who you believe. I don't think any actual member of the Browns/Washington/Seattle leadership has come out and said they want to trade up. What we have heard is tons of so-called draft experts say that is what they are hearing. Now, since these draft experts have about a 10% rate of being correct, you just have to believe that this is the one time in 10 that they have it right.
Right, which is why I said what I said. But of course, you get a few children that get there jollies by trying to make fun of someone who makes that kinda comment..
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:32 PM
Quote:
Seriously, other than the typical, We've seen some film, he looks good kinda stuff.. has anyone in the browns actually said anything terribly commentment oriented? NO, they haven't
This must mean we aren't drafting anyone. I have listened to all of the interviews with Spytek, Shurmur, Roberts, Sandusky, and Childress. They haven't mentioned any prospect to the length you are describing. And why would they? If we aren't drafting RGIII they want teams to think we are. If we are drafting RGIII they want teams to think we aren't. So the best strategy is to not say anything.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:35 PM
On the surface, I can't agree with the premise that there will be a bidding war to move down.
As I'm thinking back throughout all the drafts my mind can recall, I cannot seem to pull up a scenario where there were two teams bidding to move down.
Granted, Kalil is accepted to be the best LT in the draft, but I don't believe he's such a lock for the Rams that they won't budge unless they are blown away. It's my opinion that they have too many needs not to take a deal to move down, even if the deal isn't monstrous. They can drop down to 6 or 7 and still get Reiff. LT problem solved.
I think the Rams are the team who would do a deal. With the new CBA, the money between #2 and #3 is no longer the factor/consideration that it's been in the past. Any team who really wants Griffin are going to seal the deal at #2 IMHO.
As each day passes, especially now that he truly is 6'2, I can't see him making it to 3 or 4. I just think the Rams would happily drop down to anywhere between 4-7 and load up on picks since Reiff isn't that far behind Kalil.
As I'm thinking back throughout all the drafts my mind can recall, I cannot seem to pull up a scenario where there were two teams bidding to move down.
Granted, Kalil is accepted to be the best LT in the draft, but I don't believe he's such a lock for the Rams that they won't budge unless they are blown away. It's my opinion that they have too many needs not to take a deal to move down, even if the deal isn't monstrous. They can drop down to 6 or 7 and still get Reiff. LT problem solved.
I think the Rams are the team who would do a deal. With the new CBA, the money between #2 and #3 is no longer the factor/consideration that it's been in the past. Any team who really wants Griffin are going to seal the deal at #2 IMHO.
As each day passes, especially now that he truly is 6'2, I can't see him making it to 3 or 4. I just think the Rams would happily drop down to anywhere between 4-7 and load up on picks since Reiff isn't that far behind Kalil.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:38 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Seriously, other than the typical, We've seen some film, he looks good kinda stuff.. has anyone in the browns actually said anything terribly commentment oriented? NO, they haven't
This must mean we aren't drafting anyone. I have listened to all of the interviews with Spytek, Shurmur, Roberts, Sandusky, and Childress. They haven't mentioned any prospect to the length you are describing. And why would they? If we aren't drafting RGIII they want teams to think we are. If we are drafting RGIII they want teams to think we aren't. So the best strategy is to not say anything.
That's the point. The "draft experts" are full of #&%@ and make stuff up so they can write a story/prove their worth. Sure, RGIII is going to go between 2-6 guaranteed, but that doesn't mean anyone is going to trade for him.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:39 PM
Quote:Quote:
Quote:Do me a favor, D...
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
Next time you're entering a high-stakes poker game...please...I want in.
Seriously, other than the typical, We've seen some film, he looks good kinda stuff.. has anyone in the browns actually said anything terribly commentment oriented? NO, they haven't
in fact, Shurmur has been pretty complimentary about McCoy..
I grant you, the whole thing could be a smokescreen.. most things are this time of year.
I do hope we get to play poker someday.. I'll clean you out
Well, my point is that any team which blinks first and makes it known that they are after Griffin is the team that deserves to have that person fired from their staff for giving away their position, ergo the comment about poker, hehe. Teams are playing their cards close to the vest. They'd be idiotic to do anything other than that. We don't really hear about teams moving up for a guy until just a couple of days before the draft, and never from the mouth of someone who actually represents the team.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:44 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Quote:Do me a favor, D...
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
Next time you're entering a high-stakes poker game...please...I want in.
Seriously, other than the typical, We've seen some film, he looks good kinda stuff.. has anyone in the browns actually said anything terribly commentment oriented? NO, they haven't
in fact, Shurmur has been pretty complimentary about McCoy..
I grant you, the whole thing could be a smokescreen.. most things are this time of year.
I do hope we get to play poker someday.. I'll clean you out
Well, my point is that any team which blinks first and makes it known that they are after Griffin is the team that deserves to have that person fired from their staff for giving away their position, ergo the comment about poker, hehe. Teams are playing their cards close to the vest. They'd be idiotic to do anything other than that. We don't really hear about teams moving up for a guy until just a couple of days before the draft, and never from the mouth of someone who actually represents the team.
Except in a case like this where it is possible that Washington want to solidify a trade BEFORE free agency to essentially lock up their QB position. If Washington really wants RGIII, they need to make the trade now so that they don't go into the draft with no QB and then lose a bidding war for the #2 pick.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:47 PM
I'd say there's somewhere between a 1-2% chance that this trade up to #2 is official before draft day.
I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
And why would any team ever do that? You have handshake agreements on what every team is going to offer, why submit the paperwork to the league office and risk that something changes on your side? (e.g. you suddenly take all the risk that Griffin blows out his knee during his pro-day)
I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
And why would any team ever do that? You have handshake agreements on what every team is going to offer, why submit the paperwork to the league office and risk that something changes on your side? (e.g. you suddenly take all the risk that Griffin blows out his knee during his pro-day)
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:48 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
Quote:
2. I've heard NOTHING from any member of the browns that would indicate they think highly enough of him to move up.. in fact, I've heard nothing from Washington or seattle or anyone else that say they are interested enough to move up to get him.
R u serious???...Seriously...R u serious???
U r getting sooooo close to Throw Long it's not even funny...
Well it depends on who you believe. I don't think any actual member of the Browns/Washington/Seattle leadership has come out and said they want to trade up. What we have heard is tons of so-called draft experts say that is what they are hearing. Now, since these draft experts have about a 10% rate of being correct, you just have to believe that this is the one time in 10 that they have it right.
Right, which is why I said what I said. But of course, you get a few children that get there jollies by trying to make fun of someone who makes that kinda comment..
It's IGNORANCE...Flat out ignorance...
If u think for one second that ANY team is gonna say ANYTHING and actually MEAN it in February and March of ANY draft...Well then u r right in there with Throw...
Why don't u THINK before u type words...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:53 PM
Quote:
I'd say there's somewhere between a 1-2% chance that this trade up to #2 is official before draft day.
I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
And why would any team ever do that? You have handshake agreements on what every team is going to offer, why submit the paperwork to the league office and risk that something changes on your side? (e.g. you suddenly take all the risk that Griffin blows out his knee during his pro-day)
Atlanta for Vick...But that was for #1...
So can be said for this when we all know for FACT that if it happens it's for a Luck/RGIII 1-2 punch...And if Indy's dumb enuff to satisfy yet another Kiper rant and take RGIII at #1???...All the better...
The Rams WILL NOT accept any trade until at least draft day...If not draft day on the clock...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 08:54 PM
Quote:Ly, you're a generous person, hehe.
I'd say there's somewhere between a 1-2% chance that this trade up to #2 is official before draft day.
So let's put that to the hypothetical test...
What if I said I'll take that bet at $50. Would you do it?
I can't remember that ever happening either...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:01 PM
Quote:Quote:
I'd say there's somewhere between a 1-2% chance that this trade up to #2 is official before draft day.
I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
And why would any team ever do that? You have handshake agreements on what every team is going to offer, why submit the paperwork to the league office and risk that something changes on your side? (e.g. you suddenly take all the risk that Griffin blows out his knee during his pro-day)
Atlanta for Vick...But that was for #1...
So can be said for this when we all know for FACT that if it happens it's for a Luck/RGIII 1-2 punch...And if Indy's dumb enuff to satisfy yet another Kiper rant and take RGIII at #1???...All the better...
The Rams WILL NOT accept any trade until at least draft day...If not draft day on the clock...
They may not, but then they may lose Washington as a bidder, which would drastically lower the value they get for the pick. What I (and others) am suggesting is that Manning's availability dramatically changes this from a "normal" scenario. If Washington loves RGIII they are going to try to get him pre-free agency otherwise they will likely make a run at Manning (since there is no guarantee that they could get RGIII on draft day and don't want to be left holding the Rex Grossman bag. And the Rams will be put in a lurch because (assuming Washington offers a good package of at least 2#1's) they know that if Washington is out of the bidding the best offer they are going to get is likely less than what Washington is going to offer.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:10 PM
I don't agree with the premise that the availability of Manning reduces the competition for Griffin. Why? Because without Manning, it's unlikely a team like the Jets are in play for Griffin, while it's obvious they would jump at the chance to get Manning. I'd imagine there may be another team or two that would be in play for Manning as a "win now" QB who otherwise aren't interested in a "win later" guy in Griffin.
Furthermore, you're making the assumption that Manning is going to play, and that the rest of the NFL is assuming the same. He isn't ready now, and may not be for quite a while, if at all.
Then there's Flynn. What role does he play? Can't predict that one either.
No, I think Manning is a non-factor for some sorry teams because he wouldn't agree to play their. He'll want a team that looks ready to win now, and that's a team like the Jets.
I also think that the people who look at and are near these stories aren't thinking about Manning. He's a wildcard that can't be counted on for any prognostication right now.
Furthermore, you're making the assumption that Manning is going to play, and that the rest of the NFL is assuming the same. He isn't ready now, and may not be for quite a while, if at all.
Then there's Flynn. What role does he play? Can't predict that one either.
No, I think Manning is a non-factor for some sorry teams because he wouldn't agree to play their. He'll want a team that looks ready to win now, and that's a team like the Jets.
I also think that the people who look at and are near these stories aren't thinking about Manning. He's a wildcard that can't be counted on for any prognostication right now.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:12 PM
Quote:
Luck
RGIII
Blackmon
Kalil
Claiborne
That's my order. I agree, big gap in value over next player at position from there on. I think there are no top-10 DEs in this draft. I like Kirkpatrick, he's probably closest to this group for me.
Mine would probably go like this:
Luck
RG3
Claiborne
Richardson
Blackmon
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:22 PM
Quote:
I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
Didn't Washington do that when they drafted Campbell?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:26 PM
Agreed for the most part - Manning and RG3 are likely to attract to different sets of suitors...
The exception, I think, is Washington - who I expect to be active in perusing both.
The exception, I think, is Washington - who I expect to be active in perusing both.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:29 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
Didn't Washington do that when they drafted Campbell?
Good memory - hard to tell of course, if they were directly targeting Campbell at the time they made the trade.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/news/story?id=2041491
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:31 PM
Quote:
Agreed for the most part - Manning and RG3 are likely to attract to different sets of suitors...
The exception, I think, is Washington - who I expect to be active in perusing both.
What if Washington is being honest in their interest in both Manning and Tannehill?
That probably would be a good situation for him ...... sit behind Manning for a couple of years, and then move into the starter's role. That would be far better than going to a team that needs immediate QB help, having him thrown into the fire, and burnt to a crisp.
So if Miami goes Flynn, and the Redskins go Manning/Tannehill ...... that would leave the road fairly clear for us to take RG3. Even if we wanted to move up to 2nd, we could do so at a much lower price because our main competition would have removed themselves from the equation.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:33 PM
Which is why I put in the caviat that this could all be smokescreens..
But again, outside of what the media and fans are saying, there isn't much coming out of berea that makes me believe they are hot for RG
To be fair, they aren't saying much about anyone. but with all the speculation surronding RG, you'd think there would be more comments.. But no,, just the normal stuff
But again, outside of what the media and fans are saying, there isn't much coming out of berea that makes me believe they are hot for RG
To be fair, they aren't saying much about anyone. but with all the speculation surronding RG, you'd think there would be more comments.. But no,, just the normal stuff
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:34 PM
Trading the pick now or before the draft would be stupid IMO. Say you get a great offer at the combine, keep that offer and tell any team calling about the pick thats whats on the table, you need to offer us more, and you keep doing that right up until its your turn to hand in the card.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:44 PM
Way to go Ytown, just got back from the hospital with mom saw that RG3 measured at over 6-2, Thats really incredible and you were obviously correct about him slouching in interviews because he sure didnt look 6ft even to be honest. I think it really increased his value.
If there are any merits to the Redskins talking about 2 firsts and a 2nd, I cant see us matching it but Miami might, they are loaded already. Kid is a natural in front of the podium and he is going to sell a lot of tickets. He should go ahead and throw and just continue to pile up the pressure n Luck.
If there are any merits to the Redskins talking about 2 firsts and a 2nd, I cant see us matching it but Miami might, they are loaded already. Kid is a natural in front of the podium and he is going to sell a lot of tickets. He should go ahead and throw and just continue to pile up the pressure n Luck.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:48 PM
They should trade the pick at the moment they feel it is maxed. You dont want RG3 to blow out his knee in his proday while you are waiting for a better offer to be made. If you get an offer you feel comfortable with, you take it and move on and prepare to draft from where you trade down to.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 09:50 PM
Quote:
if Washington offers a good package, the Rams may have to take it or risk being left with no offers on draft day.
In which case they get Kalil or Blackmon or Claiborne.... or whoever.. it's not really a bad price to pay.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:08 PM
Quote:
They should trade the pick at the moment they feel it is maxed. You dont want RG3 to blow out his knee in his proday while you are waiting for a better offer to be made. If you get an offer you feel comfortable with, you take it and move on and prepare to draft from where you trade down to.
Which is exactly why it WON'T happen until draft day...
Move up now and he blows a knee and you're screwed...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:15 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I can't in my life remember a "picks for picks" trade which happened before the draft started.
Didn't Washington do that when they drafted Campbell?
I don't remember that trade off the top of my head, but there is one scenario where it could be a possibility with current players being involved as part of the trade along with picks and that would be the only scenario that I can think of that would trump what we have to offer.
Whether or not we will/should trade up.
It's in our best interest to make teams like Washington and Miami think that we are willing to and the Coach has already said as much, so teams looking to trade up now know that they have to package a deal that will force them to out bid us and in the process force them to reevaluate how much they are willing to trade.
If the Rams really like a player on the Redskins roster and they are willing to include that player, that could conceivable seal the deal over the value of a package of picks that we might put together, but picks for picks, they don't stand a chance unless they really forfeit a ton of picks.
Whether we really want Griffen or we would like to see a trade that would insure us another prospect like Claiborn.
It's the prudent thing to do.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:27 PM
I would love to finish out this defense by drafting Claiborne and signing Mario Wilians. Then just take a chance on Tannehill being there at 22. If not continue to build, with another year of Colt and a very difficult schedule we would probably be top 2 oe 3 next year anyway.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:31 PM
Just pointing this out, wanting Williams and actually signing him are two different things.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:34 PM
Quote:
I would love to finish out this defense by drafting Claiborne and signing Mario Wilians. Then just take a chance on Tannehill being there at 22. If not continue to build, with another year of Colt and a very difficult schedule we would probably be top 2 oe 3 next year anyway.
I like the Williams + Claiborne strategy -- but signing a guy for an $80-$90M contract and "planning to draft in the top 2-3 next year" don't really seem to go hand in hand.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:35 PM
Quote:
Just pointing this out, wanting Williams and actually signing him are two different things.
so isWanting us to Draft Griffen and that actually happening. Just sayin
Wishing wont make it so, but there is nothing wrong with wishing it where so.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:46 PM
Actually, if we got neither Griffin nor Tannehill, I would bring Mcnabb in or Jason Campbell and let him run things for a year.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/24/12 10:55 PM
Quote:
I like the Williams + Claiborne strategy -- but signing a guy for an $80-$90M contract and "planning to draft in the top 2-3 next year" don't really seem to go hand in hand.
Yes.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 01:15 AM
Friday February 24, 2012 - 5:28 PM
Mike Freeman
Teams clamoring for Rams' pick won't be disappointed by Griffin
By Mike Freeman | CBSSports.com National NFL Insider
INDIANAPOLIS -- Robert Griffin III had his height and weight taken this week at the combine. He officially stands at 6-feet-2 3/8 inches. That is about three-eighths of an inch taller than expected. Since the NFL and the people who cover the sport are full of dorks and geeks who wear Captain Kirk pajamas, this was considered big news.
It's amazing, actually. Guy stands maybe an inch taller than expected and suddenly he's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. But that's where we are with Griffin. He's such a spectacular quarterback specimen that any piece of news involving him, no matter how trivial, nerdy or silly, leads to a breaking news headline.
Some of that is understandable. No player now -- not even Andrew Luck -- is generating as much interest around the sport as Griffin. He will make this draft one of the most interesting to watch in recent history because of the full-frontal assault teams will make in the upcoming draft to trade up and get RG3.
League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
It will likely take two No. 1 picks (at least) to make that trade, and the reason is some teams view Griffin as similarly talented as Luck or such a close facsimile in terms of potential that the difference isn't a great one.
The Redskins remain the front-runners. Their serious interest was inadvertently confirmed by big-mouth assistant coach Jim Haslett, who spoke to a fan about the team's serious interest in Griffin not knowing that the fan penned a Redskins blog.
Haslett only confirmed the obvious. Everyone in football expected Washington to make a play for Griffin before Haslett spilled the beans and nothing has changed. It's the kind of move impetuous owner Dan Snyder would make, except this Snyder move would actually be a smart one. Griffin going to Washington would energize a frustrated fan base.
The Dolphins are also interested in trading up despite their Matt Flynn infatuation. Team officials believe the sleeper team is Seattle, though moving from the 12 spot to No. 2 would cost a great deal.
There are two things we definitely know when it comes to the Rams and RG3. One is that St. Louis won't trade Sam Bradford, as coach Jeff Fisher explained Friday. He could be fibbing, but it's highly unlikely they would make such a move. We also know it's highly unlikely the Rams draft Griffin unless their intent is to immediately trade him (which won't happen either). This just leaves the option of trading out of the spot.
"There's a lot of options," Fisher said. "We'll be prepared."
Griffin is worth the risk of giving up so many draft choices. His smarts, strong arm and athleticism make him a practically can't-miss prospect.
And yes, I said his smarts, despite some analysis to the contrary. Though draft analyst Mike Mayock has said extremely positive things about Griffin, he also launched the annual trial balloon about the intelligence of melanin-blessed quarterback prospects. Mayock was asked how he thought Griffin would do in the private sessions with teams at the combine, where prospects break down game tape and diagram plays. Mayock's response, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram: "I don't know how he'll do in that setting."
With his non-answer, Mayock raises a question that doesn't deserve to be raised. And ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay told the newspaper in the same article: "I'd be surprised if he doesn't floor teams with his intelligence."
Mayock's comments are similar to what is whispered and sometimes said outright about many black quarterback prospects. The same things were stated, in fact, by some about Cam Newton last season. Newton turned out to be, well, kinda brilliant.
Indeed, scouts have maintained to me there is no indication Griffin lacks the intellect to play the position. In fact, they say the opposite, pointing to the fact that Griffin graduated early from both high school and college. At Baylor, he earned a degree in political science and was an Academic All-American. He's the definition of a smart guy.
Most of the NFL knows this and if they don't they'll find out this week and when some team -- likely the Redskins -- trades up in the draft to get Griffin they'll see better than anyone.
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Mike Freeman
Teams clamoring for Rams' pick won't be disappointed by Griffin
By Mike Freeman | CBSSports.com National NFL Insider
INDIANAPOLIS -- Robert Griffin III had his height and weight taken this week at the combine. He officially stands at 6-feet-2 3/8 inches. That is about three-eighths of an inch taller than expected. Since the NFL and the people who cover the sport are full of dorks and geeks who wear Captain Kirk pajamas, this was considered big news.
It's amazing, actually. Guy stands maybe an inch taller than expected and suddenly he's Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. But that's where we are with Griffin. He's such a spectacular quarterback specimen that any piece of news involving him, no matter how trivial, nerdy or silly, leads to a breaking news headline.
Some of that is understandable. No player now -- not even Andrew Luck -- is generating as much interest around the sport as Griffin. He will make this draft one of the most interesting to watch in recent history because of the full-frontal assault teams will make in the upcoming draft to trade up and get RG3.
League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
It will likely take two No. 1 picks (at least) to make that trade, and the reason is some teams view Griffin as similarly talented as Luck or such a close facsimile in terms of potential that the difference isn't a great one.
The Redskins remain the front-runners. Their serious interest was inadvertently confirmed by big-mouth assistant coach Jim Haslett, who spoke to a fan about the team's serious interest in Griffin not knowing that the fan penned a Redskins blog.
Haslett only confirmed the obvious. Everyone in football expected Washington to make a play for Griffin before Haslett spilled the beans and nothing has changed. It's the kind of move impetuous owner Dan Snyder would make, except this Snyder move would actually be a smart one. Griffin going to Washington would energize a frustrated fan base.
The Dolphins are also interested in trading up despite their Matt Flynn infatuation. Team officials believe the sleeper team is Seattle, though moving from the 12 spot to No. 2 would cost a great deal.
There are two things we definitely know when it comes to the Rams and RG3. One is that St. Louis won't trade Sam Bradford, as coach Jeff Fisher explained Friday. He could be fibbing, but it's highly unlikely they would make such a move. We also know it's highly unlikely the Rams draft Griffin unless their intent is to immediately trade him (which won't happen either). This just leaves the option of trading out of the spot.
"There's a lot of options," Fisher said. "We'll be prepared."
Griffin is worth the risk of giving up so many draft choices. His smarts, strong arm and athleticism make him a practically can't-miss prospect.
And yes, I said his smarts, despite some analysis to the contrary. Though draft analyst Mike Mayock has said extremely positive things about Griffin, he also launched the annual trial balloon about the intelligence of melanin-blessed quarterback prospects. Mayock was asked how he thought Griffin would do in the private sessions with teams at the combine, where prospects break down game tape and diagram plays. Mayock's response, according to the Fort Worth Star-Telegram: "I don't know how he'll do in that setting."
With his non-answer, Mayock raises a question that doesn't deserve to be raised. And ESPN draft analyst Todd McShay told the newspaper in the same article: "I'd be surprised if he doesn't floor teams with his intelligence."
Mayock's comments are similar to what is whispered and sometimes said outright about many black quarterback prospects. The same things were stated, in fact, by some about Cam Newton last season. Newton turned out to be, well, kinda brilliant.
Indeed, scouts have maintained to me there is no indication Griffin lacks the intellect to play the position. In fact, they say the opposite, pointing to the fact that Griffin graduated early from both high school and college. At Baylor, he earned a degree in political science and was an Academic All-American. He's the definition of a smart guy.
Most of the NFL knows this and if they don't they'll find out this week and when some team -- likely the Redskins -- trades up in the draft to get Griffin they'll see better than anyone.
web page
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 01:59 AM
Quote:Maybe they aren't letting on or are trying to mask it? Maybe they just don't have him rated as high or have an idea for a different plan. Maybe they like Tannenhill or are exhausting options with Flynn? Maybe they like Colt and will bring in a guy like Henne who is young and draft a guy somewhere. What if they aren't as down on Colt as some here believe. Maybe they really like Barkley or Jones and will look to trade down and secure another first for next year and go with Richardson. and put Playmakers or "guys who score TD's" on the field in more forms than just a QB. Maybe they like the idea of Claiborne at 4 and look at his selection as a safe great pick that can start day 1 and lock down probably the best Corner duo in the league for a long time. Even Blackmon is a possibility at this point and we really can't screw it up. These are all questions or possibilities that even the guys making the picks have considered. I guarantee there isn't one approach or possible scenario that has not been discussed or thought of.
League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
We all have our own ideas on what would be best but at the end of the day I feel comfortable knowing we will be a lot more talented team. I am excited about where we are going and the approach we have taken to get there under current management. I think after this draft and offseason teams are going to have to look at us differently.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 02:11 AM
I could see us trading up on draft day to get Griffin......then those other teams saying they had no intention of taking him....then the calls for Heckert's head because he was tricked into giving up the farm.
Griffin's height measurement has really upped his stock in my eyes. I thought for sure he was going to come in at 6'0" like Colt did after being listed at 6'2" or 6'3" in most of the pre-draft reports.
Griffin's height measurement has really upped his stock in my eyes. I thought for sure he was going to come in at 6'0" like Colt did after being listed at 6'2" or 6'3" in most of the pre-draft reports.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 02:34 AM
Quote:
League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
If you think about it we should be less interested in making a trade, because we draft higher then those other teams and we are in the best position to draft Griffen without trading up. They are all looking to jump ahead of us.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 02:36 AM
Quote:
League sources maintain at least three teams are strongly considering moving up in a blockbuster deal with the Rams to snag Griffin. Those teams, sources say, include Washington, Miami and Seattle. Team officials also say Cleveland has interest in trading up, though not as much as other teams.
Could it also be St. Louis just "reporting" there is a lot of interest in the pick to try and light a fire under Cleveland's behind? For all we know Cleveland offered a 4th rounder and a conditional 2nd next year and the Rams haven't gotten anything else so they want to try and sweeten the pot.
Don't forget everyone ... it's draft season. Everything you hear is only out there because someone wanted you to hear it... not because it's true or because it doesn't serve someone's agenda ...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 02:48 AM
I think the Rams know that the Browns aren't trying to give anything up more than the first round picks we have THIS year.
OTher teams will have to dab into next years picks too..
If I were the Rams.. I would want picks this year and next year..
Free Agency needs to get here so I can get a better feel for what we may do..
OTher teams will have to dab into next years picks too..
If I were the Rams.. I would want picks this year and next year..
Free Agency needs to get here so I can get a better feel for what we may do..
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 02:55 AM
It's also a bidding war as well... Cleveland doesn't have to meet the Rams needs ... they just have to offer more than what Washington does.
Our #4 and #37 are better than Washington's #6 and #39.... and if St. Louis tries to jerk our chain too much and says "You really gotta give us more" then we could stand firm and then they end up losing out on a good deal. IF they trade with Washington then Blackmon AND Kalil are probably both gone.
I really wouldn't be surprised if we traded both firsts ... but I also (at this time) don't buy into the fact that we have to offer both firsts. No-one else can even beat our First and #37 UNLESS Washington offers into next years as it is. If that's the case then St. Louis might get more picks, but they might also have to miss out on a top prospect this year. ...
In the end ... I just don't think we need to trade The #4 AND #22 ... when no-one can really beat our #4 and #37 as it is. And that's not even counting the fact that if St. Louis can't get a deal done ... we could always just offer a 3rd to swap with Minnesota. They (probably) don't want Griffin so they wouldn't take him anyways. We would essentially be giving them a third to take the other player that they wanted in the first place.
I know there are a lot of rumors out there and a lot of hype / drama about what COULD happen ... but I just don't buy into trading away another first rounder when we might not have to. I know it's just my opinion but why outbid yourself at an auction?
Our #4 and #37 are better than Washington's #6 and #39.... and if St. Louis tries to jerk our chain too much and says "You really gotta give us more" then we could stand firm and then they end up losing out on a good deal. IF they trade with Washington then Blackmon AND Kalil are probably both gone.
I really wouldn't be surprised if we traded both firsts ... but I also (at this time) don't buy into the fact that we have to offer both firsts. No-one else can even beat our First and #37 UNLESS Washington offers into next years as it is. If that's the case then St. Louis might get more picks, but they might also have to miss out on a top prospect this year. ...
In the end ... I just don't think we need to trade The #4 AND #22 ... when no-one can really beat our #4 and #37 as it is. And that's not even counting the fact that if St. Louis can't get a deal done ... we could always just offer a 3rd to swap with Minnesota. They (probably) don't want Griffin so they wouldn't take him anyways. We would essentially be giving them a third to take the other player that they wanted in the first place.
I know there are a lot of rumors out there and a lot of hype / drama about what COULD happen ... but I just don't buy into trading away another first rounder when we might not have to. I know it's just my opinion but why outbid yourself at an auction?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 02:56 AM
Even if we werent sold on RG3 we have shown enough interest to make the Skins nervous enough to trade ahead of us.
Now Flynn goes to Miami, i think that one is pretty much a done deal.
Seattle will try for Manning but I think they go Defense in the draft anyway.
So now we have pretty much cleared the path to Tannehill at 22.
Now at 4 we can go Richardson, Blackmon, Claiborne or trade down. Eagles and their 2nd along with Desean Jackson could be enticing to Heckert. Heck at 15 Richardson has a good chance of still being there if not, Cordy Glenn is the ideal tackle for Heckert.
Now Flynn goes to Miami, i think that one is pretty much a done deal.
Seattle will try for Manning but I think they go Defense in the draft anyway.
So now we have pretty much cleared the path to Tannehill at 22.
Now at 4 we can go Richardson, Blackmon, Claiborne or trade down. Eagles and their 2nd along with Desean Jackson could be enticing to Heckert. Heck at 15 Richardson has a good chance of still being there if not, Cordy Glenn is the ideal tackle for Heckert.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 03:01 AM
The fact that there are only 4-5 ELITE talents in this draft...
Two of the being QBs (Stl and minny have invested in Bradford and Ponder already)
and one being a RB, (Jackson, Peterson)
Helps us GREATLY...
Are Stl or Minny willing to pass up on ELITE talent for extra later round picks?
If I'm either of them, and I'm on the clock, I'm calling up Washington and TELLING the that Cleveland offered the #22, Give us your 2013 1st Rounder and the pick is yours...
That's the only way they can save it, assuming they care about the top players in this draft...
Two of the being QBs (Stl and minny have invested in Bradford and Ponder already)
and one being a RB, (Jackson, Peterson)
Helps us GREATLY...
Are Stl or Minny willing to pass up on ELITE talent for extra later round picks?
If I'm either of them, and I'm on the clock, I'm calling up Washington and TELLING the that Cleveland offered the #22, Give us your 2013 1st Rounder and the pick is yours...
That's the only way they can save it, assuming they care about the top players in this draft...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 03:07 AM
All these teams talk so everyone knows what everyone else is offering. It keeps them from bidding against themselves.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 03:14 AM
Yeah you wouldn't get very far as a GM if you were straight up lying to other teams.
Nobody would ever do business with you again.
Nobody would ever do business with you again.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 03:18 AM
Why would you be openly honest about how you're trying to make your team better in spite of another team?
Does Jerry Jones call up Dan Snyder and tell him he's going to offer Albert Hayensworth 95 million only for Snyder to say "Aw that sucks Jerry, I gave him 100?"
OR
Does Dan Snyder call up Jerry and ask him what he thinks about Hayesworth, and Jerry says "Dan, if I had the cap room I'd give him 100 million!" and then hang up the phone and cup his hands together and say "...Excellent..."
Jerry Jones
Does Jerry Jones call up Dan Snyder and tell him he's going to offer Albert Hayensworth 95 million only for Snyder to say "Aw that sucks Jerry, I gave him 100?"
OR
Does Dan Snyder call up Jerry and ask him what he thinks about Hayesworth, and Jerry says "Dan, if I had the cap room I'd give him 100 million!" and then hang up the phone and cup his hands together and say "...Excellent..."
Jerry Jones
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 03:24 AM
I think these guys lie to each other all the time.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 03:26 AM
Quote:
I think these guys lie to each other all the time.
There's a big difference between concealing or not revealing things - and outright lying about things, especially things that teams will inevitably figure out (like whether the Browns offered a huge stockpile of picks that you were going to take).
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 04:25 AM
I was one of the Colt defenders who realized that Colt never had a chance to succeed and should be given a chance. Now...the more I see and hear RG3 the more impressed I am. Even the extra height makes a difference as I thought he looked small when I watched him play. I thought he might only be 6-1 so he's almost 2 inches taller. Bottom line is I hope we fix the offense for whomever is the QB so they have a chance to succeed. I also hope that Colt is kept as the backup and Seneca is shown the door. I think Colt would do everything in his power to win the starting job but would also do everything he could to help the Browns win if he was named the backup (including helping his competitor and teammate get better). We all know that the backup in Cleveland eventually plays anyway. The Browns have many needs and can ill afford to give up any high picks but it looks like RG3 is worth #4 & #22. Now I just hope it doesn't cost more than that.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 05:25 AM
I have long said that if you believe any part of anything a NFL GM says between the Super Bowl and the Draft.. you deserve what you get.
To paraphrase Mark Twain.. NFL GM's are more ferocious liars than Missouri mule traders.
To paraphrase Mark Twain.. NFL GM's are more ferocious liars than Missouri mule traders.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 11:41 AM
Did our guys lie about last year or the year before? I think they are pretty str8 forward about what they are looking for.
They are not gonna completely reveal who they will draft but they arent just gonna make up nonsense.
They are not gonna completely reveal who they will draft but they arent just gonna make up nonsense.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 01:59 PM
Just Clicking
Just watched some of the video of RG3 at the combine.. damn,, i have to say this,, that kid is a sharp young man..
I'll leave it to others to debate is onfield abilities,, but from a "human' standpoint,,, thats one helluva young man..
Just watched some of the video of RG3 at the combine.. damn,, i have to say this,, that kid is a sharp young man..
I'll leave it to others to debate is onfield abilities,, but from a "human' standpoint,,, thats one helluva young man..
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 02:03 PM
Here's his entire presser .... for those who want to see it ....
http://www.miamidolphins.com/media/video...fa-29de497c74bc
http://www.miamidolphins.com/media/video...fa-29de497c74bc
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 04:16 PM
Quote:
Some people laughed when I posted that picture of Griffin standing beside Luck and said that they were about the same height ... with Luck being maybe half an inch taller.
I laughed but didn't post it.
You can't take a picture from an angle like that and get any indication of size relationship.
I know. I deal with this everyday in my work. I design truck lettering. Take one picture of the side of the truck (from dead center both horizontally and vertically) then take one actual measurement of a section of the truck (like a door) then scale that section up to the measurement I've taken and then any measurement taken from the computer from any section of the picture of the truck is accurate.
If that picture I took is at any angle (not dead center at either of the two axis) then regardless if I scale it to that one measurement, that one measurement is the only one what will be right. All other measurements taken from the computer will be wrong.
We call it "skew". If the picture is skewed then the numbers will be skewed. You can see it in both the visual and in the numbers.
You just can't take a picture at an angle and draw any conclusions regarding size.
All that said, you were right in that RGlll has the height to be an NFL QB and that is not in dispute. So you were right.
But your "evidence" proved nothing.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 05:13 PM
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 05:17 PM
Quote:
I think this proves beyond any shadow of doubt that RG3 is at least 6 inches taller than Luck
Remember,, Purple is the new color of sarcasm
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 05:19 PM
j/c
I'll say that his height has helped me warm to him. But, perhaps more important to me is how much he impressed pretty much everyone with his interview. Seems like a real polished kid.
I'll say that his height has helped me warm to him. But, perhaps more important to me is how much he impressed pretty much everyone with his interview. Seems like a real polished kid.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 05:43 PM
I never got caught up in all the height issues.. it was pretty clear that all reports had him over 6 feet.
But your right,, that interview revealed a great deal about the kid. He's smart, articulate, confident but not cocky. And funny. not that that's important, but he is.
All that said, I'm still not sure a team with as many holes as we have would be wise to trade a bunch of high picks.
But it doesn't matter what I think. if the brain trust in Berea think he's the guy and they have a plan to add the talent around him fairly quickly, then i'm good with it..
The key here for me is that if they go out and get the 2nd pick, grab RG3 and then don't support him by putting talent around him, then they are damn fools...
No plan means don't do the deal.....
But your right,, that interview revealed a great deal about the kid. He's smart, articulate, confident but not cocky. And funny. not that that's important, but he is.
All that said, I'm still not sure a team with as many holes as we have would be wise to trade a bunch of high picks.
But it doesn't matter what I think. if the brain trust in Berea think he's the guy and they have a plan to add the talent around him fairly quickly, then i'm good with it..
The key here for me is that if they go out and get the 2nd pick, grab RG3 and then don't support him by putting talent around him, then they are damn fools...
No plan means don't do the deal.....
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 06:16 PM
Quote:
The key here for me is that if they go out and get the 2nd pick, grab RG3 and then don't support him by putting talent around him, then they are damn fools...
No plan means don't do the deal.....
I've said that all along - If we get an RG3 (tradeup or at #4) - we better go out in FA and get a top flight receiver who he can throw to (DeSean Jackson is the obvious match to RG3's abilities - but really any would be better than what we have here).
And we better get a RT who can keep him on his feet (this is, to me, more important. QBs can still develop with drops, they can't develop if they have free rushers coming at them constantly)
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 08:29 PM
Shurmur has already said that he wants to get a veteran WR .... and not just a WR, but a guy who can contribute, and who has a lot left in the tank. He doesn't want a guy who can just help the other players .... but a guy who can compete to be a starter.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 08:41 PM
I would love to see Colston in a Brown's uni more so than any other receiver. If our first four went Colston, (Jeffrey, Sanu, Randle), Little, Norwood. I would be thrilled.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 08:51 PM
Quote:
Shurmur has already said that he wants to get a veteran WR .... and not just a WR, but a guy who can contribute, and who has a lot left in the tank. He doesn't want a guy who can just help the other players .... but a guy who can compete to be a starter.
I agree - I'm just saying it's more pressing in FA if you're not going to have first round picks to get a Blackmon/Floyd/Wright/Jeffery
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/25/12 09:02 PM
And I'm still not all that convinced that Blackmon is going to be this all world receiver that some people expect him to be.
He's not in my top 4 players in this draft ....... so I would not be drafting him unless he slipped all the way down to 22. (or wherever we wind up picking with our 2nd pick)
I fully expect us to go try and get a FA WR .... but we had better have a solid QB plan to sell these guys on. If I'm a FA WR, the first question out of my mouth is "Who is going to be throwing me the ball?" ....... and if the answer is "we don't know.". or "Colt McCoy.", then I thank the team for its interest and move on. I would rather go to a team with a QB I can depend on to get me the ball than one with major questions at the position. If the team says "We don't know yet, but we are evaluating players as we speak, and we are seriously considering RG3 right now as our best option" .......
We'd have guys excited to play if that were the case. They've seen the highlights. They've seen the beautiful deep ball. We'd have receivers excited about coming to Cleveland to play, instead of considering it a final cash grab before retirement.
He's not in my top 4 players in this draft ....... so I would not be drafting him unless he slipped all the way down to 22. (or wherever we wind up picking with our 2nd pick)
I fully expect us to go try and get a FA WR .... but we had better have a solid QB plan to sell these guys on. If I'm a FA WR, the first question out of my mouth is "Who is going to be throwing me the ball?" ....... and if the answer is "we don't know.". or "Colt McCoy.", then I thank the team for its interest and move on. I would rather go to a team with a QB I can depend on to get me the ball than one with major questions at the position. If the team says "We don't know yet, but we are evaluating players as we speak, and we are seriously considering RG3 right now as our best option" .......
We'd have guys excited to play if that were the case. They've seen the highlights. They've seen the beautiful deep ball. We'd have receivers excited about coming to Cleveland to play, instead of considering it a final cash grab before retirement.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 12:31 AM
I have only marginaly paid any attention to what is going on, but this snipit brought a new line of thinking to mind;
What if HH&S negotiate a deal to do just that, trade draft picks for Bradford? 1) you get that "Franchise Quarterback", 2) St. L get's out from under the last pre-New CBA monster rookie contracts (and acquire multiple picks to boot) 3) We get a Quarterback with attributes (Super tall with a big arm)the fans are clamaring to have, the coach already knows, and would fit right into the system.
If we were ready to sell the farm to get him the first time around, why wouldn't we try to negotiate for something close to that now.
Is Bradford so tarnished because he didn't "light it up" last year that he is considerd a "Bust" and if that is so, how can we be so absolutely sure RGIII can "Be the Man" when he has nothing close to Bradford like attributes?
Just sayin'
"GO BROWN" bring on the Spring Training!
Quote:
There are two things we definitely know when it comes to the Rams and RG3. One is that St. Louis won't trade Sam Bradford, as coach Jeff Fisher explained Friday. He could be fibbing, but it's highly unlikely they would make such a move. We also know it's highly unlikely the Rams draft Griffin unless their intent is to immediately trade him (which won't happen either). This just leaves the option of trading out of the spot.
What if HH&S negotiate a deal to do just that, trade draft picks for Bradford? 1) you get that "Franchise Quarterback", 2) St. L get's out from under the last pre-New CBA monster rookie contracts (and acquire multiple picks to boot) 3) We get a Quarterback with attributes (Super tall with a big arm)the fans are clamaring to have, the coach already knows, and would fit right into the system.
If we were ready to sell the farm to get him the first time around, why wouldn't we try to negotiate for something close to that now.
Is Bradford so tarnished because he didn't "light it up" last year that he is considerd a "Bust" and if that is so, how can we be so absolutely sure RGIII can "Be the Man" when he has nothing close to Bradford like attributes?
Just sayin'
"GO BROWN" bring on the Spring Training!
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 12:51 AM
Quote:
And I'm still not all that convinced that Blackmon is going to be this all world receiver that some people expect him to be.
He's not in my top 4 players in this draft ....... so I would not be drafting him unless he slipped all the way down to 22. (or wherever we wind up picking with our 2nd pick)
I fully expect us to go try and get a FA WR .... but we had better have a solid QB plan to sell these guys on. If I'm a FA WR, the first question out of my mouth is "Who is going to be throwing me the ball?" ....... and if the answer is "we don't know.". or "Colt McCoy.", then I thank the team for its interest and move on. I would rather go to a team with a QB I can depend on to get me the ball than one with major questions at the position. If the team says "We don't know yet, but we are evaluating players as we speak, and we are seriously considering RG3 right now as our best option" .......
We'd have guys excited to play if that were the case. They've seen the highlights. They've seen the beautiful deep ball. We'd have receivers excited about coming to Cleveland to play, instead of considering it a final cash grab before retirement.
I'll never understand your logic.
On one hand you say your not sure that Blackmon will be all that. Based on what? Have you seen something that tells you this or is it just a hunch of yours?
Blackmon was clearly and by far the best WR at that level over the past two years and that includes the likes of Green and Jones last year. You certainly
can't use his body of work to know this.
On the other hand you think Griffen is all universe. Based on what? You can't tell me that he competed against the best teams during that time.
All we have to go on with either is how they performed in College at this point.
So all things being equal. What makes you so sure Griffen is all that and Blackmon is nothing special. Both excelled at that level.
All we have to go on either is not conclusively telling either way as to how either will transition.
Over the last 40 years I've seen great College talent come and go and one thing I know for certain is that you can never know for certain how they will transition (well or not so well) to the NFL, based on what they did at the College level.
That's why I don't get too star eyed on one, while dismissing other possibilities.
I like many prospects every year, but there are but a few (over 40 years) that would make me say that we need to get this guy at all cost.
When they get to this level the talent is better overall and many times those great College players are no more special then the next guy in many cases.
That's not to say that they can't be very good at their respective positions, but there are many good players at this level at all positions as opposed to a couple on any given team at the College level.
QB is the hardest position to project. On the other hand RB Is probably the easiest to project, but none are ever guaranteed to be great.
It's a given that you can rate prospects against other prospects in any given draft based on what they did in College, but you can't know for sure how they will stack up to the best talent in the world at the next level.
If you can, then your better then most who get paid to be right.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 12:56 AM
I don't have the details on hand, but I know this has been discussed briefly on this board.
The Rams can't trade/cut Bradford because of his contract. They would take an enormous cap hit.
There are many posters on here who think that RGIII is as good or a better passer than Bradford.
The Rams can't trade/cut Bradford because of his contract. They would take an enormous cap hit.
Quote:
how can we be so absolutely sure RGIII can "Be the Man" when he has nothing close to Bradford like attributes?
There are many posters on here who think that RGIII is as good or a better passer than Bradford.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 01:30 AM
My top 4 in this draft are:
Luck
RG3
Claiborne
Richardson
Then I would look at a guy like Blackmon. However, I do not feel that his ability is significantly above the standard, while I do feel that the other 4 players do have talent and ability significantly above standard.
He's got good, but not great size. He runs decent routes, He does have excellent hands. However, he is not as explosive off the LOS as most of the premiere WRs in the NFL are. He lacks elite speed, but he is fast enough to have a solid NFL career.
In short, he has the makings of a solid, very good NFL player, but will probably, IMHO, never be a great NFL player. He'll probably hand around the periphery of the top 10 range in a lot of categories, but I don't think that he'll be a top 10 type receiver.
I can see a guy like AJ Green putting up top 10 seasons, especially after putting up almost 1100 yards as a rookie with a rookie QB. I see Blackmon more like a Dez Bryant ...... a good WR .... but not a top talent in the league. A really good receiver, but not a great one. A guy who will contribute to a good team, but never be the difference between that team winning or losing.
I think he should be if he goes 4th in the draft.
When I look at RG3, I see a guy with premium skills and abilities that exceed the norm. I see him as a guy who can develop into a top 5 QB in the NFL. I see a guy with elite accuracy, elite deep ball ability, exceptional running ability, superb intelligence and excellent leadership ability ........ and great physical talent overall. I see him as easily the 2nd best player in this draft, for all of those reasons.
You may, and probably do disagree, That's your right.
Luck
RG3
Claiborne
Richardson
Then I would look at a guy like Blackmon. However, I do not feel that his ability is significantly above the standard, while I do feel that the other 4 players do have talent and ability significantly above standard.
He's got good, but not great size. He runs decent routes, He does have excellent hands. However, he is not as explosive off the LOS as most of the premiere WRs in the NFL are. He lacks elite speed, but he is fast enough to have a solid NFL career.
In short, he has the makings of a solid, very good NFL player, but will probably, IMHO, never be a great NFL player. He'll probably hand around the periphery of the top 10 range in a lot of categories, but I don't think that he'll be a top 10 type receiver.
I can see a guy like AJ Green putting up top 10 seasons, especially after putting up almost 1100 yards as a rookie with a rookie QB. I see Blackmon more like a Dez Bryant ...... a good WR .... but not a top talent in the league. A really good receiver, but not a great one. A guy who will contribute to a good team, but never be the difference between that team winning or losing.
I think he should be if he goes 4th in the draft.
When I look at RG3, I see a guy with premium skills and abilities that exceed the norm. I see him as a guy who can develop into a top 5 QB in the NFL. I see a guy with elite accuracy, elite deep ball ability, exceptional running ability, superb intelligence and excellent leadership ability ........ and great physical talent overall. I see him as easily the 2nd best player in this draft, for all of those reasons.
You may, and probably do disagree, That's your right.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 01:37 AM
Blackmon wants to jump up the board, he best change his mind and start running the 40. The big question on him is speed and the lack there of. By ducking out of the combines, it does nothing to help his stock. I really love Blackmon as a prospect but he just looks doesn't look all that fast.
I think Kenny Wright has a chance to jump Blackmon this weekened. With the new rules on the defenseless receiver and his blazing speed combined with great hands, he has a real chance to make it top 10. If you notice in all of those RG3 big TD passes, it seemed like Wright was the guy making that big catch. They are one of the great combinations.
I think Kenny Wright has a chance to jump Blackmon this weekened. With the new rules on the defenseless receiver and his blazing speed combined with great hands, he has a real chance to make it top 10. If you notice in all of those RG3 big TD passes, it seemed like Wright was the guy making that big catch. They are one of the great combinations.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 01:43 AM
As an unapologetic Blackmon fan, I have to say that I don't remember ever seeing him get chased down from behind if he had a step on a guy. Maybe it happened and I don't remember. That's entirely possible. But, I just didn't see the speed problem that a lot of guys have mentioned.
I don't think him not running at the combine hurt him. Heck, if Indy is as slow as some say, maybe it would have hurt him if he DID run at the combine.
Since speed is his biggest knock, I think it's smart for him to run somewhere where he's going to be at his fastest.
A question for you guys. What 40 time would you want to see out of Blackmon to erase your doubts?
I don't think him not running at the combine hurt him. Heck, if Indy is as slow as some say, maybe it would have hurt him if he DID run at the combine.
Since speed is his biggest knock, I think it's smart for him to run somewhere where he's going to be at his fastest.
A question for you guys. What 40 time would you want to see out of Blackmon to erase your doubts?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 01:53 AM
At 217 pounds, I would want a minimum of 4.55 in the 40. Calvin johnson borrowed shoes and ran a 4.38 on that surface. Julio ran something like a 4.39 and Green ran right at 4.5 I believe. The only people that run slow at the combines are people that are slow.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 01:57 AM
He's going to run at his Pro Day. Which means he better run a 4.4.
I don't understandhim not running at the Combine, QBs wait to throw at their Pro Days because they can control the routes and WRs and look better...
What can he control at his Pro Day that will make him run faster?
I don't understandhim not running at the Combine, QBs wait to throw at their Pro Days because they can control the routes and WRs and look better...
What can he control at his Pro Day that will make him run faster?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 02:13 AM
Not only that, but you can always redeem yourself if you run a bad time at the combine by running faster at your private workout. I see no reason for a guy who needs a fast time not to run at the combine.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 02:35 AM
Quote:
Blackmon wants to jump up the board, he best change his mind and start running the 40. The big question on him is speed and the lack there of. By ducking out of the combines, it does nothing to help his stock. I really love Blackmon as a prospect but he just looks doesn't look all that fast.
I think Kenny Wright has a chance to jump Blackmon this weekened. With the new rules on the defenseless receiver and his blazing speed combined with great hands, he has a real chance to make it top 10. If you notice in all of those RG3 big TD passes, it seemed like Wright was the guy making that big catch. They are one of the great combinations.
I'm not concerned that Blackmon won't run the 40: at the combine. It's seems to be acceptable for the top QB to not pass at the combine, so why should it bother you or anyone that the #1 WR in this draft won't run the 40: at the combine? there are far too many double standards around hear for my liking of late and too much is made of the 40: times (unless your AL Davis).
Yeah he doesn't look that fast ... Until the ball is in his hands and he's not only fast, but he is also elusive and a load to bring down for a WR.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
He plays bigger then he measures and if he measured 6'3" or more, then we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
I didn't care what Griffen's height was before and I could care less that Blackmon is not 6'4".
For all that the combination of Griffen and Wright achieved. The Combination of Weeden and Blackmon was better.
I like Wright too, but I think he will need to be used in motion to help him out at the LOS.
If Blackmon has any warts it would be with his inexperience running the routes that they did not ask Weeden to make on a regular basis, like the deep out or deep comeback. I don't worry about him not being fast enough and most of the time in our offense it's more important to run the short and medium routes and go across the middle something his attributes lends itself to. More so then Wright.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 02:47 AM
Blackmon is free to run a bad 40 time so we can draft both RG3 at 4 at him at 22
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 02:51 AM
lol, that would make me spontaneously combust with joy.
I don't see any way Blackmon falls past the Rams (wherever they pick) or Jacksonville.
I don't see any way Blackmon falls past the Rams (wherever they pick) or Jacksonville.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 02:58 AM
Quote:
Blackmon is free to run a bad 40 time so we can draft both RG3 at 4 at him at 22
Well I believe he said he has a pulled hammy. IIRC so too did AJ Green last year and he ran, but not to his liking.
Some where even saying, because Jones ran a faster 40: that he was the better talent. I never bought into that rhetoric and it never swayed my opinion for a moment.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 03:11 AM
Jones also ran a great 40 with a broken foot... Just saying...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 03:42 AM
Quote:
Jones also ran a great 40 with a broken foot... Just saying...
Yes he did, but it was not like it was a compound fracture and obviously his 40: time was not effected by it, but It still did not make him the better prospect. Although it sure didn't hurt his draft stock and in a round about way it probably helped ours, because of the trade. Perhaps Atlanta might not have had to trade up so high, but that's hard to speculate on.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 02:41 PM
RG...IV.III.VIII...As in 4.38 40 yarder...Damn...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 02:59 PM
Quote:
Jones also ran a great 40 with a broken foot... Just saying...
Just shows what a 40 time is worth........
It's hard for me to believe Heckert would have taken the trade with the Falcons had AJ Green been there. That guy's a stud and he has no issues getting open and catching deep passes
Man was I upset when I saw the Bengals pick AJ Green. That trade down made my day
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 03:07 PM
I believe Heckert was targeting Green and Peterson. I think the plan was: if one of those 2 falls to us we take him, if neither trade down with Atlanta. It would be interesting to know what he would have done had both fallen.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 03:13 PM
Quote:
RG...IV.III.VIII...As in 4.38 40 yarder...Damn...
Dammit...the Rams are pretty happy now
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 03:13 PM
Quote:Maybe they will throw turf in at FedEx Field and he can dazzle all the Redskin fans with that blazing speed.
RG...IV.III.VIII...As in 4.38 40 yarder...Damn...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 03:44 PM
NFL Network analysts said Fisher is laid back smoking a cigar after that 40.. lol.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 05:10 PM
Quote:
RG...IV.III.VIII...As in 4.38 40 yarder...Damn...
Ah hell, why couldn't he have run a 4.6 or something.
It wouldn't have effected my opinion of him ... but it wouldn't have been just one more thing for other teams to lust over.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 05:35 PM
It's gonna take at least both first rounders and a mid round pick and probably more to get RGIII. I would say three first round picks.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 05:40 PM
Quote:
It's gonna take at least both first rounders and a mid round pick and probably more to get RGIII. I would say three first round picks.
The rumor is that Washington has offered 1,2,3 this year, and a 1st next year. Won't know if there's any truth to that for two months, but I certainly wouldn't pay it.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 05:56 PM
Quote:Quote:
It's gonna take at least both first rounders and a mid round pick and probably more to get RGIII. I would say three first round picks.
The rumor is that Washington has offered 1,2,3 this year, and a 1st next year. Won't know if there's any truth to that for two months, but I certainly wouldn't pay it.
think about what it would take for us to beat that offer (and yeah, we have the ammunition to do so)
Probably our 4, 22 and our second rounder + either our third rounder this year or a second and/or maybe even our 1st next year.
I like RG3,, everything I've seen on him,, the interviews, the speed, his attitude.., what's not to like. but damn, that's a hefty price to pay when it means you can't get the other pieces to help him be successful...
I said it yesterday and I'm sticking to it.. if the Browns have a plan to move up to get him and still put SOLID pieces around him quickly (like this year), I'm good with it.. I just don't see it possible.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 05:58 PM
we can't afford to pay for that golden ticket..
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 05:59 PM
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 06:06 PM
Quote:Quote:
It's gonna take at least both first rounders and a mid round pick and probably more to get RGIII. I would say three first round picks.
The rumor is that Washington has offered 1,2,3 this year, and a 1st next year. Won't know if there's any truth to that for two months, but I certainly wouldn't pay it.
Our 1st THIS draft is more valuable to the Rams than WAS's 1st next season...that also covers their 3rd imho (in math: our #22 = WAS 1st 2013 + 3rd 2012) and our 1st and 2nd are ahead of theirs
max we'd have to pay would be #4+ #22# + #37....still think our #22 and a 4th will be enough ultimately...we'd still have an entire draft class (pick in every round) and all picks in 2013
You want a QB? That's the price....or a 0-2 win season...and nobody wants that
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 06:39 PM
Quote:
max we'd have to pay would be #4+ #22# + #37....still think our #22 and a 4th will be enough ultimately...we'd still have an entire draft class (pick in every round) and all picks in 2013
In the end, you may be right,, But as of this moment, I think you are dreaming.. no way that 2nd pick goes that cheap...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 06:59 PM
Rather take TAnnehill at 4.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 07:08 PM
From PFT
Mayock presses Griffin on not throwing at Scouting Combine
Posted by Mike Florio on February 26, 2012, 1:07 PM EST
On Saturday, NFL Network’s Mike Mayock looked into the camera and pleaded with Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, and Justin Blackmon to fully participate in the Scouting Combine workouts on Sunday.
On Sunday, Griffin visited the main NFLN set at Lucas Oil Stadium, and Mayock pressed the Heisman winner on his decision not to throw passes to the assembled receivers.
“I thought it was in my best interests not to come and throw to guys I haven’t thrown to before, running a game plan I’m not familiar with, and in an environment that I’m not prepared for,” Griffin said in response to a question from host Rich Eisen regarding the decision not to show off a multi-million-dollar arm. “So I’ll do it at my Pro Day, it kind of helps out the guys at Baylor that are coming out, they can get more scouts there and watch us do our thing.”
(Actually, Griffin could have thrown at the Combine and at his Pro Day.)
Mayock then pressed Griffin a bit, pointing out that Griffin said “I’m a competitor” in audio that played before the interview. “Don’t your juices get going a little bit when all the boys are throwing out there and you’re standing there in sweats?” Mayock said. “Every decision maker in the league is here. Don’t you just want to get there and rip it?”
“I really did,” Griffin said. “I kept inching forward. The Cleveland coach was telling me he could see it in me. He saw that I wanted to be out there throwing.”
The question of the team for which Griffin will be throwing come September remains wide open. Griffin said that his Combine interviews included sit-downs with the Browns, Dolphins, Redskins, and Chiefs.
But not the Seahawks.
“Ah, that’s the team that’s gonna move up and take him!” Mayock said, pointing out that the Broncos and former coach Mike Shanahan showed no interest whatsoever in Jay Cutler before trading up with, coincidentally, the Rams to draft Cutler in 2006.
Though Griffin’s decision not to throw won’t affect his draft stock, it would have made the Sunday afternoon games of the underwear Olympiad slightly more interesting.
Mayock presses Griffin on not throwing at Scouting Combine
Posted by Mike Florio on February 26, 2012, 1:07 PM EST
On Saturday, NFL Network’s Mike Mayock looked into the camera and pleaded with Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, and Justin Blackmon to fully participate in the Scouting Combine workouts on Sunday.
On Sunday, Griffin visited the main NFLN set at Lucas Oil Stadium, and Mayock pressed the Heisman winner on his decision not to throw passes to the assembled receivers.
“I thought it was in my best interests not to come and throw to guys I haven’t thrown to before, running a game plan I’m not familiar with, and in an environment that I’m not prepared for,” Griffin said in response to a question from host Rich Eisen regarding the decision not to show off a multi-million-dollar arm. “So I’ll do it at my Pro Day, it kind of helps out the guys at Baylor that are coming out, they can get more scouts there and watch us do our thing.”
(Actually, Griffin could have thrown at the Combine and at his Pro Day.)
Mayock then pressed Griffin a bit, pointing out that Griffin said “I’m a competitor” in audio that played before the interview. “Don’t your juices get going a little bit when all the boys are throwing out there and you’re standing there in sweats?” Mayock said. “Every decision maker in the league is here. Don’t you just want to get there and rip it?”
“I really did,” Griffin said. “I kept inching forward. The Cleveland coach was telling me he could see it in me. He saw that I wanted to be out there throwing.”
The question of the team for which Griffin will be throwing come September remains wide open. Griffin said that his Combine interviews included sit-downs with the Browns, Dolphins, Redskins, and Chiefs.
But not the Seahawks.
“Ah, that’s the team that’s gonna move up and take him!” Mayock said, pointing out that the Broncos and former coach Mike Shanahan showed no interest whatsoever in Jay Cutler before trading up with, coincidentally, the Rams to draft Cutler in 2006.
Though Griffin’s decision not to throw won’t affect his draft stock, it would have made the Sunday afternoon games of the underwear Olympiad slightly more interesting.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 07:14 PM
Quote:
The question of the team for which Griffin will be throwing come September remains wide open. Griffin said that his Combine interviews included sit-downs with the Browns, Dolphins, Redskins, and Chiefs.
But not the Seahawks.
He also said the Vikes, Jags and Bills. No on the Rams, and they didn't ask about Indy, though one has to assume the answer to that was Yes.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 07:15 PM
Quote:Quote:
RG...IV.III.VIII...As in 4.38 40 yarder...Damn...
Ah hell, why couldn't he have run a 4.6 or something.
It wouldn't have effected my opinion of him ... but it wouldn't have been just one more thing for other teams to lust over.
Luck ran an "official" 4.67 which is pretty darn good, but nothing compared to RG3s "official" 4.41
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 07:38 PM
I agree, it will only take our #4 and #22. People need to factor in the Rams dropping to #6 will all but guarantee they lose out on Kalil and Blackmon.
If STL drops to #4 they will get one of the two guys they like.
We have the best option to go after RG3, which is why IMO WAS is going to go after a FA QB, either Flynn or Manning(assuming he is healthy or signs a contract that is heavily incentive laden.)
WAS is going to have to give up the entire draft plus #1 next year to be able to trump us. At that price we would say no, but as crazy as Snyder is I don't see him doing that.
JMO
If STL drops to #4 they will get one of the two guys they like.
We have the best option to go after RG3, which is why IMO WAS is going to go after a FA QB, either Flynn or Manning(assuming he is healthy or signs a contract that is heavily incentive laden.)
WAS is going to have to give up the entire draft plus #1 next year to be able to trump us. At that price we would say no, but as crazy as Snyder is I don't see him doing that.
JMO
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 07:42 PM
Quote:
Rather take TAnnehill at 4.
I like Tannehill...I really do...after all, I was the biggest Gabbert pimp here a year ago but Luck and RG3 are just more day 1 ready and esp. RG has that wow factor this franchise is lacking imho
Long term I think sky's the limit for Tannehill...he could very well end up the best QB out of this class but there's a lot of projection involved and I just don't know if he's the right guy for the state the Browns, the FO, the coaches and the fans...really the hole franchise is...
So, I'm not sure Browns-Tannehill is the best fit...for both that is...but if we sign a Campbell and miss out on Luck/RG I'm all for drafting him...especially after a trade down for additional picks
Tannehill and Weeden are my fall back plans, depending which way we go in FA...if we do not sign any QB, I'd prefer Weeden...if we do, I'd target Tannehill...simply because I think both are better than McCoy even short term and that'd lead to an too early entrance into the league for Tannehill....if we get him, I want him to sit his 1st season
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 08:50 PM
Quote:
I agree, it will only take our #4 and #22.
Day dream believer....LOL
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 08:56 PM
Quote:
It's gonna take at least both first rounders and a mid round pick and probably more to get RGIII. I would say three first round picks.
I'm not giving up 2, much less 3 first rounders for RG3. I'd consider giving up 2 firsts for Andrew Luck but even that's pushing it.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:05 PM
Quote:
max we'd have to pay would be #4+ #22# + #37....still think our #22 and a 4th will be enough ultimately...we'd still have an entire draft class (pick in every round) and all picks in 2013
Yep. 4 + 22 + 37 beats 6 + 39 + 70 + next 1.
How much would it cost to move from 6 to 4? Then from 39 to 37?
Add in it's the difference between STL getting one of the two players they want vs not getting one of them... I think our offer would be much more appealing
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:06 PM
Quote:Quote:
It's gonna take at least both first rounders and a mid round pick and probably more to get RGIII. I would say three first round picks.
The rumor is that Washington has offered 1,2,3 this year, and a 1st next year. Won't know if there's any truth to that for two months, but I certainly wouldn't pay it.
The Cowboys did get that much out of the Vikings and built a team that won multiple Super Bowls with Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, & Emmitt Smith.
Any team that gives that up deserves the same fate that awaited the Vikings and St. Louis should turn that into winning multiple Super Bowls.
That's just insane and so many people here want to become those Vikings! I just don't get it.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:10 PM
I think it all depends on how Stl values to the top prospects of this year.
Do they NEED to come out of this draft with either Kalil or Blackmon? (the two players they're usually linked too)
Dropping to 4 gives them one of if not the choice of both (depending on what Minny does)
But dropping to 6? Kalil is definitely gone, and even Blackmon might be gone...
I'm still holding out hope that Washington grabs either Flynn or Manning, because theres no way IMO that Stl or Minny would drop to 8 or lower...
If I'm the FO, I'm sitting still at 4, because the pressure is on everyone else to make a deal, not us...
Do they NEED to come out of this draft with either Kalil or Blackmon? (the two players they're usually linked too)
Dropping to 4 gives them one of if not the choice of both (depending on what Minny does)
But dropping to 6? Kalil is definitely gone, and even Blackmon might be gone...
I'm still holding out hope that Washington grabs either Flynn or Manning, because theres no way IMO that Stl or Minny would drop to 8 or lower...
If I'm the FO, I'm sitting still at 4, because the pressure is on everyone else to make a deal, not us...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:12 PM
Quote:Quote:Quote:
It's gonna take at least both first rounders and a mid round pick and probably more to get RGIII. I would say three first round picks.
The rumor is that Washington has offered 1,2,3 this year, and a 1st next year. Won't know if there's any truth to that for two months, but I certainly wouldn't pay it.
The Cowboys did get that much out of the Vikings and built a team that won multiple Super Bowls with Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, & Emmitt Smith.
Any team that gives that up deserves the same fate that awaited the Vikings and St. Louis should turn that into winning multiple Super Bowls.
That's just insane and so many people here want to become those Vikings! I just don't get it.
I'm still trying to figure out what Washington did with the 99 and 2000 drafts...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:16 PM
Quote:
I agree, it will only take our #4 and #22. People need to factor in the Rams dropping to #6 will all but guarantee they lose out on Kalil and Blackmon.
If STL drops to #4 they will get one of the two guys they like.
We have the best option to go after RG3, which is why IMO WAS is going to go after a FA QB, either Flynn or Manning(assuming he is healthy or signs a contract that is heavily incentive laden.)
WAS is going to have to give up the entire draft plus #1 next year to be able to trump us. At that price we would say no, but as crazy as Snyder is I don't see him doing that.
JMO
Manning isn't going to Washington. He's got no desire to play his brother twice a year.
He could go to Miami but I suspect that the #1 QB on their wish list it Flynn. If it isn't, with the connections, nobody should even consider him.
I think the most likely place that Manning ends up is in Kansas City.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:20 PM
Quote:
Rather take TAnnehill at 4.
No.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:21 PM
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:56 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I agree, it will only take our #4 and #22.
Day dream believer....LOL
I don't think it's going to cost more than that either.....maybe at best a later round pick or next years #3.
There is a big difference between dropping to #4 and dropping to #6. The difference is still getting the guy you like and not getting him.
Our first this year (#22) is way more valuable then a future #1....I think those 2 picks trump almost anything anyone can offer unless teams start offering up 2 years worth of #1 picks...I doubt that happens.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 09:59 PM
Quote:
Quote:
max we'd have to pay would be #4+ #22# + #37....still think our #22 and a 4th will be enough ultimately...we'd still have an entire draft class (pick in every round) and all picks in 2013
Yep. 4 + 22 + 37 beats 6 + 39 + 70 + next 1.
How much would it cost to move from 6 to 4? Then from 39 to 37?
Add in it's the difference between STL getting one of the two players they want vs not getting one of them... I think our offer would be much more appealing
I agree.....if we had to go that high.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 10:13 PM
Sorry, one other thought.
Let's say we do have to give up both 1st's and our 2nd.
(I almost think we could get a rebate out of them and pick up another 4th or 5th)
All that means is we have to be more active in free agency. We have the cash. Spend it on a few good vets with 4-5-6 years left and we don't need the picks. Just because the thinking is you build through the draft, that doesn't mean you can't improve through free agency.
If you have a chance to get a key position, that is building through the draft. The number of picks don't matter. If you land a super QB, that's the only pick in that draft you need.
As Clevelander's many of you have been conditioned by picks and the draft. But really, how's that worked out?? My theory is maybe we need to forget about picks and start thinking about players who can play.
Let's say we do have to give up both 1st's and our 2nd.
(I almost think we could get a rebate out of them and pick up another 4th or 5th)
All that means is we have to be more active in free agency. We have the cash. Spend it on a few good vets with 4-5-6 years left and we don't need the picks. Just because the thinking is you build through the draft, that doesn't mean you can't improve through free agency.
If you have a chance to get a key position, that is building through the draft. The number of picks don't matter. If you land a super QB, that's the only pick in that draft you need.
As Clevelander's many of you have been conditioned by picks and the draft. But really, how's that worked out?? My theory is maybe we need to forget about picks and start thinking about players who can play.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 10:13 PM
What we need to do is let word get out, quietly through back channels that we're willing to sell the farm to get RG3. Both Miami and Wash, knowing they can't compete with our package in the draft go for QB's in FA. Once that's locked Stl no longer has a trading partner except for us, we tell them to pound sand and wait for RG3 to fall to us at 4. 
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 10:39 PM
Quote:Quote:
Quote:
I agree, it will only take our #4 and #22.
Day dream believer....LOL
I don't think it's going to cost more than that either.....maybe at best a later round pick or next years #3.
There is a big difference between dropping to #4 and dropping to #6. The difference is still getting the guy you like and not getting him.
Our first this year (#22) is way more valuable then a future #1....I think those 2 picks trump almost anything anyone can offer unless teams start offering up 2 years worth of #1 picks...I doubt that happens.
Ain't buying it Peen.. if I'm sitting there at two and know that I'm gonna have either Luck or more likely RG3 there, I'm thinking I'm in for a deal and a half.
I think that if RG is considered as good by teams as he is by the media and fans, someone is going to give up the ship for him.. and it's gonna be more than our two 1st rounders and a second......
But drafts are really funny.., Remember when it was basically thought to be a lock that Quinn would go in the top 10.. Didn't happen. Or how about (not a qb) But Baba Oshnowa (spelling) remember when he was a sure 2nd or 3rd rounder.., Where did we get him,, 6th round.. and he didn't make it with us and I'm not even sure he's still in the league is he.
All the hype.. and that's all it might be..
Having said that, I really believe the hype on RG.. He really does seem as solid as a rock.. Probably gonna be an outstanding NFL QB...
And I bet teams feel that way as well.. it's gonna take more to get him,, pick values be damned...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 10:47 PM
You have to take this with a grain of salt of course, but here is Cabot and manoloff from the combine talking about how the price for RG is going up (among some other things) Again "GRAIN OF SALT"
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/sunday_evening_nfl_combine_upd.html
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/02/sunday_evening_nfl_combine_upd.html
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 10:56 PM
Was watching NFC sports talk and one of those guys was saying Redskins giving up 1st 2nd this year and 1st and 3rd next.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 11:28 PM
Our two firsts and a second should surpass that if we really want RG3.
We have a huge advantage having the 4th pick. That allows them to get one of Claiborne, Blackmon, or Kalil.
The Redskin's pick doesn't give them that guarantee. The 4th pick gives them a shot at one of the top 2 non-QB players of the draft too.
A lot of what we can do is limited by FA. I'm really hoping we can get Pierre Garcon, Stevie Johnson, or Desean Jackson. Possibly a DE too. I really don't see any RT's in FA, so that's gonna have to be our third round pick, possibly moving up into the 2nd to get our guy........
Another year of Pashos or Pashos quality is not really an option (if I was making decisions, of course I've been saying that for awhile)
We have a huge advantage having the 4th pick. That allows them to get one of Claiborne, Blackmon, or Kalil.
The Redskin's pick doesn't give them that guarantee. The 4th pick gives them a shot at one of the top 2 non-QB players of the draft too.
A lot of what we can do is limited by FA. I'm really hoping we can get Pierre Garcon, Stevie Johnson, or Desean Jackson. Possibly a DE too. I really don't see any RT's in FA, so that's gonna have to be our third round pick, possibly moving up into the 2nd to get our guy........
Another year of Pashos or Pashos quality is not really an option (if I was making decisions, of course I've been saying that for awhile)
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 11:35 PM
Quote:
Was watching NFC sports talk and one of those guys was saying Redskins giving up 1st 2nd this year and 1st and 3rd next.
Not at all sure if that would do it either. I guess it all depends what the Rams want in the draft. I mean, if the guy they covet can be had further down in the draft, then all of a sudden Miami could give them 11, and thier first next year and a second, third this year and a second and third or fouth next year.
that's a 6 for 1 deal.. again, depends on who the rams covet in the first.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 11:42 PM
THe vikings got a 28 yr old running back. they also gave up 8 picks and some players as well. We're talking about getting a 22 yr old qb, who has the potential to be great at the most important position in the game. This guy could play for us for the next 10-15 yrs. How many did walker play for the vikings?? Plus we would be giving up maybe 4-5 picks at the most. Your comparison is way off base.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 11:47 PM
Which option would you guys rather have
1. RG3
2. Tanehill, Cordy Glenn and Vinny Curry
3 Trent Richardson, Kenny Wright and Stephon Gilmore
4. Claiborne, Michael Floyd, Lamar Miller
Option 1 looks a hell of a lot less appealing to me
1. RG3
2. Tanehill, Cordy Glenn and Vinny Curry
3 Trent Richardson, Kenny Wright and Stephon Gilmore
4. Claiborne, Michael Floyd, Lamar Miller
Option 1 looks a hell of a lot less appealing to me
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/26/12 11:49 PM
Quote:
Which option would you guys rather have
1. RG3
2. Tanehill, Cordy Glenn and Vinny Curry
3 Trent Richardson, Kenny Wright and Stephon Gilmore
4. Claiborne, Michael Floyd, Lamar Miller
Option 1 looks a hell of a lot less appealing to me
Exactly
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 12:14 AM
Quote:
Our two firsts and a second should surpass that if we really want RG3.
We have a huge advantage having the 4th pick. That allows them to get one of Claiborne, Blackmon, or Kalil.
The Redskin's pick doesn't give them that guarantee. The 4th pick gives them a shot at one of the top 2 non-QB players of the draft too.
A lot of what we can do is limited by FA. I'm really hoping we can get Pierre Garcon, Stevie Johnson, or Desean Jackson. Possibly a DE too. I really don't see any RT's in FA, so that's gonna have to be our third round pick, possibly moving up into the 2nd to get our guy........
Another year of Pashos or Pashos quality is not really an option (if I was making decisions, of course I've been saying that for awhile)
It all depends on whether or not Jeff Fisher and the Rams want to lose the opportunity to take Kalil or pass him down to the Vikings. The Rams have many needs like we do, but Jeff Fisher's Motive Operand is to build an OL that can protect Sam Bradford. He has his type of bell cow RB [Jackson] and he is going to have a more conservative offense, then they ran last year, but it's going to be hard to pass on the talent he so covets for his team.
He may settle for another OT, but he never drafts WR's early in the Draft, so I don't think there is much of a chance that he will be targeting Justin Blackmon.
To summarize ... if Fisher falls in love with Kalil, witch is a possibility still (imo), then he will keep the pick and that would mean teams would now be dealing with the Vikings at #3 if they want to trade up.
btw, did anyone else notice the analysis for the Combine participants has the top CB rated as such;
1) Dre Kirkpatrick ~92.0
2T) Janoris Jenkins ~91.5
2T) Morris Claiborne ~91.5
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 12:16 AM
Quote:
Having said that, I really believe the hype on RG.. He really does seem as solid as a rock.. Probably gonna be an outstanding NFL QB..
Yet u pass on him because of a few draft picks that noone will give a rats ass about 2 years from now...
Unflippenbelievable...
Just like those meaningless Wins in previous years that put us JUST outta reach of what we needed to do...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 12:17 AM
Quote:
Yet u pass on him because of a few draft picks that noone will give a rats ass about 2 years from now...
Awesome assumption to make
Yes - if I assume that every player I take besides RG3 will suck -- then I would probably take RG3
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 12:19 AM
What you have to understand is they aren't going to draft him, so it's not the same leverage as if we were trying to get them off a player.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 12:32 AM
I really , really like the young man,,, but would not sell the farm to get him ..
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:00 AM
Quote:
Which option would you guys rather have
1. RG3
2. Tanehill, Cordy Glenn and Vinny Curry
3 Trent Richardson, Kenny Wright and Stephon Gilmore
4. Claiborne, Michael Floyd, Lamar Miller
Option 1 looks a hell of a lot less appealing to me
Option 2) Except you and I know when looking at it objectively NACIH that Glenn is there at 22, and no, I don't want to spend a high first on a QB I don't think is special (Tannehill).
Option 3) I don't want a RB at 4, Kendall Wright won't be there at 22 either, and Gilmore is not that good.
Option 4) This is probably the best option you've presented, but Floyd, after running a 4.4, could go #10 to the Bills or possibly even #7 to the Jags.
Why not just say "wouldn't you rather have Justin Blackmon, Riley Reiff, and Janoris Jenkins?"
None of those options are happening.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:27 AM
Quote:
I really , really like the young man,,, but would not sell the farm to get him ..
that's the point,, but some folks just don't get it. it has NOTHING to do with the player., It's what you gotta give up to get him that makes it hard to swallow,.,
Want RG3? Rams Want 3 firsts - 02/27/12 01:38 AM
Robert Griffin III keeps NFL draftniks buzzing with 4.41 in 40-yard dash at NFL Combine
Published: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 8:00 PM Updated: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 8:03 PM
Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
INDIANAPOLIS -- As Robert Griffin III's stock continues to climb, apparently so does his price tag.
At least one NFL analyst heard rumblings at the NFL Combine that it might take as much as three No. 1s to trade up to No. 2 with the Rams to select Baylor's Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback.
"From what I've heard, the Rams could be looking for an exchange of firsts this year and two other firsts," said NFL.com analyst and longtime Cowboys personnel executive Gil Brandt.
With the way things are going, that might not be as farfetched as it sounds, especially for teams lower in the round.
CBSsports.com reported on Saturday that at least three teams are seriously considering deals to move up to No. 2: Washington (No. 6), Miami (No. 8) and Seattle (No. 12). It said the Browns (with the fourth and 22nd picks in the first round) are interested in trading up, but not as much as the other teams, and that the Redskins are the front-runners.
Howard Eskin of WIP Radio Philadelphia reported Sunday that Redskins sources told him they're prepared to offer their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks this year and at least a 1st next year.
That's not to mention the Chiefs at No. 11, whose new coach Romeo Crennel on Saturday described Griffin as a "person you go up to get."
Griffin's combine performance only boosted his stock, despite the fact he didn't throw. On Sunday morning, he ran a 4.41 40, which was the fastest time for a quarterback since Reggie McNeal posted a 4.35 in 2006 and second-fastest since Mike Vick's 4.33 in 2001. Stanford's Andrew Luck turned in a 4.67, fourth among quarterbacks.
"I knew he was going to fly," said NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock. "I didn't care if it was 4.31 or 4.41 or 4.51. Fast guys run fast."
Mayock and Browns quarterbacks coach Mark Whipple tried in vain to prod Griffin into throwing, but he resisted the temptation. Instead, he'll do so during his Pro Day March 21.
"I really did [want to], and I kept inching forward," Griffin said after his workout. "The Cleveland coaches were telling me they could see it in me -- they saw I wanted to be out there throwing. I tried to come out and show that I'm a competitor with the running and the jumping so they know I'm either as athletic as they thought I was or even more."
NFL Network's Mike Mayock recaps the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis NFL Network's Mike Mayock recaps the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis NFL Network's Mike Mayock discusses Robert Griffin III, Andrew Luck and others during his press conference at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis on Sunday. Watch video
Griffin also finished first among quarterbacks with a 39-inch vertical leap and third with a 10-foot broad jump, a mark he was disappointed in. Luck finished first among QBs in that category with a 10-4. Still, Griffin's 40-time, along with his measured height of 6-2 3/8 and sterling interviews made for an impressive showing.
"He had a spectacular combine," said Nfldraftscout.com draft expert Rob Rang. "You can make the argument that he's been the most impressive player in terms of the intangibles he's demonstrated as well as the athleticism of any player so far at the combine."
He said the 4.41 "just legitimizes what we've seen on tape and puts a number to the highlight reel that was his career."
Overall, he thinks Griffin is worth trading up for.
"He possesses two extraordinary skills that are a combination I've never seen before: absolutely spectacular accuracy on the deep ball and elite straight-line speed. Then of course the intangibles make for a pretty impressive combination."
Mayock came away convinced that both Luck and Griffin are of the franchise quarterback variety.
"They're two special ones I think," he said. He also thinks there's a chance that the No. 3 quarterback, Ryan Tannehill from Texas A&M, could go in the top 10. Tannehill, who's recovering from foot surgery, played in a West Coast-style offense and might be an option for the Browns if they decide not to trade up for Griffin.
"The Browns are just going to have to decide if they want to pay to move up to get the guy," said Brandt. "I think they're building the team the right way. They're not mortgaging the future. I thought they made a great trade last year -- and so does everybody else."
But will they make another one this year?
On Twitter: @marykaycabot
web page
Published: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 8:00 PM Updated: Sunday, February 26, 2012, 8:03 PM
Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer By Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer
INDIANAPOLIS -- As Robert Griffin III's stock continues to climb, apparently so does his price tag.
At least one NFL analyst heard rumblings at the NFL Combine that it might take as much as three No. 1s to trade up to No. 2 with the Rams to select Baylor's Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback.
"From what I've heard, the Rams could be looking for an exchange of firsts this year and two other firsts," said NFL.com analyst and longtime Cowboys personnel executive Gil Brandt.
With the way things are going, that might not be as farfetched as it sounds, especially for teams lower in the round.
CBSsports.com reported on Saturday that at least three teams are seriously considering deals to move up to No. 2: Washington (No. 6), Miami (No. 8) and Seattle (No. 12). It said the Browns (with the fourth and 22nd picks in the first round) are interested in trading up, but not as much as the other teams, and that the Redskins are the front-runners.
Howard Eskin of WIP Radio Philadelphia reported Sunday that Redskins sources told him they're prepared to offer their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks this year and at least a 1st next year.
That's not to mention the Chiefs at No. 11, whose new coach Romeo Crennel on Saturday described Griffin as a "person you go up to get."
Griffin's combine performance only boosted his stock, despite the fact he didn't throw. On Sunday morning, he ran a 4.41 40, which was the fastest time for a quarterback since Reggie McNeal posted a 4.35 in 2006 and second-fastest since Mike Vick's 4.33 in 2001. Stanford's Andrew Luck turned in a 4.67, fourth among quarterbacks.
"I knew he was going to fly," said NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock. "I didn't care if it was 4.31 or 4.41 or 4.51. Fast guys run fast."
Mayock and Browns quarterbacks coach Mark Whipple tried in vain to prod Griffin into throwing, but he resisted the temptation. Instead, he'll do so during his Pro Day March 21.
"I really did [want to], and I kept inching forward," Griffin said after his workout. "The Cleveland coaches were telling me they could see it in me -- they saw I wanted to be out there throwing. I tried to come out and show that I'm a competitor with the running and the jumping so they know I'm either as athletic as they thought I was or even more."
NFL Network's Mike Mayock recaps the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis NFL Network's Mike Mayock recaps the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis NFL Network's Mike Mayock discusses Robert Griffin III, Andrew Luck and others during his press conference at the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis on Sunday. Watch video
Griffin also finished first among quarterbacks with a 39-inch vertical leap and third with a 10-foot broad jump, a mark he was disappointed in. Luck finished first among QBs in that category with a 10-4. Still, Griffin's 40-time, along with his measured height of 6-2 3/8 and sterling interviews made for an impressive showing.
"He had a spectacular combine," said Nfldraftscout.com draft expert Rob Rang. "You can make the argument that he's been the most impressive player in terms of the intangibles he's demonstrated as well as the athleticism of any player so far at the combine."
He said the 4.41 "just legitimizes what we've seen on tape and puts a number to the highlight reel that was his career."
Overall, he thinks Griffin is worth trading up for.
"He possesses two extraordinary skills that are a combination I've never seen before: absolutely spectacular accuracy on the deep ball and elite straight-line speed. Then of course the intangibles make for a pretty impressive combination."
Mayock came away convinced that both Luck and Griffin are of the franchise quarterback variety.
"They're two special ones I think," he said. He also thinks there's a chance that the No. 3 quarterback, Ryan Tannehill from Texas A&M, could go in the top 10. Tannehill, who's recovering from foot surgery, played in a West Coast-style offense and might be an option for the Browns if they decide not to trade up for Griffin.
"The Browns are just going to have to decide if they want to pay to move up to get the guy," said Brandt. "I think they're building the team the right way. They're not mortgaging the future. I thought they made a great trade last year -- and so does everybody else."
But will they make another one this year?
On Twitter: @marykaycabot
web page
Re: Want RG3? Rams Want 3 firsts - 02/27/12 01:41 AM
I've warmed to the idea of giving up some picks this draft. But, I'm still not comfortable with giving up picks next year, too. I want to be able to put pieces around him if we can. Now, if we have a stellar free agency class, that could change things.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:44 AM
Quote:
Which option would you guys rather have
1. RG3
2. Tanehill, Cordy Glenn and Vinny Curry
3 Trent Richardson, Kenny Wright and Stephon Gilmore
4. Claiborne, Michael Floyd, Lamar Miller
Option 1 looks a hell of a lot less appealing to me
Let's look at previous drafts with QBs going high .......
Would you rather have:
2011:
Cam Newton
Or
4) AJ Green
22) Anthony Castonzo
37) Jabaal Sheard
Man .... that's actually a tough one.
2010:
Sam Bradford
Or
4) Trent Williams
22) Demaryius Thomas
37) Nate Allen
Even with his problems, I think I'd go with Bradford.
2009:
Matthew Stafford
Or
4) Aaron Curry
22) Percy Harvin
37) Alphonso Smith?
I'd take Stafford in that case, every time.
2008:
3) Matt Ryan
Or
4) Darren McFadden
22) Felix Jones
37) Curtis Loften
Well, McFadden had one good year, and has been injured ...... Jones is ... meh ........ but Loften has been very good. I still think that I'd go with Ryan, even though he hasn't become an elite talent yet.
2007:
1) Jamarcus Russell.
Or ...... a box of doughnuts ....
Gimme the doughnuts, or whoever was taken with the picks.
Well ..... anyway ....
4) Gaines Adams
22) Brady Quinn
37) Eric Weddle
Even with Quinn deleted, it's a clear win for the "other" picks. Adams is one of the best in the NFL.
2006:
3) Vince Young
Or
4) D'Brickashaw Ferguson
22) Manny Lawson
37) Jimmy Williams
Ferguson makes this a win for the picks, but it's not a slam dunk otherwise
That's as far back as I have the patience for.
Anyway ....... Jamarcus Russell "should have" been better than he was. He had a lot of successful starts in college, and did a nice job completing passes. He had a nice TD to INT ratio. He should have been able to make the leap, but he just seemed to disappear once he got paid. Well ..... not disappear so much as eat himself into the 400# range ....... and never did much on the football field at all.
Vince Young was a running QB. He put up 1000 yard seasons running the ball. He also only threw 44 TDs to 28 INTs in his 3 years of college.
I would take Newton, Bradford, Stafford, and Ryan ...... and pass on Russell and Young, taking the other picks instead. Even flipping Newton into the other camp only makes it a 50-50 proposition.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:47 AM
Quote:
NACIH that Glenn is there at 22
Well according to the Combine analysis Glenn might go as high as round 3.
(your buddy lol)
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:48 AM
Quote:
4) Gaines Adams
22) Brady Quinn
37) Eric Weddle
Even with Quinn deleted, it's a clear win for the "other" picks. Adams is one of the best in the NFL.
Didn't Gaines Adams get traded for lack of production, then ya know die...?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:50 AM
Quote:Quote:
4) Gaines Adams
22) Brady Quinn
37) Eric Weddle
Even with Quinn deleted, it's a clear win for the "other" picks. Adams is one of the best in the NFL.
Didn't Gaines Adams get traded for lack of production, then ya know die...?
Oh God yeah ...... who was I thinking of?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:05 AM
Good comparison, I'd take the picks in 2011, 2008, 2007, 2006, and with the QB in 2010 and 2009 -- I'll give you 2008 as being close-ish.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:05 AM
Quote:
THe vikings got a 28 yr old running back. they also gave up 8 picks and some players as well. We're talking about getting a 22 yr old qb, who has the potential to be great at the most important position in the game. This guy could play for us for the next 10-15 yrs. How many did walker play for the vikings?? Plus we would be giving up maybe 4-5 picks at the most. Your comparison is way off base.
The Cowboys turned that trade into Aikman, Irvin, and Smith and won 3 Super Bowls.
What players could St. Louis grab to make them want to trade? We have a lot of the same needs as they do on the offensive side of the ball. Receivers and OL. On defense, they probably need even more than we do.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:12 AM
Great illustration YTown, but I still have to think that we might have made different choices all things being equal, meaning Heckert might have made better choices.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:39 AM
It could have been Samuel,John or John Quincy Adams.They all have that death thing in common.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:11 AM
Quote:Quote:
THe vikings got a 28 yr old running back. they also gave up 8 picks and some players as well. We're talking about getting a 22 yr old qb, who has the potential to be great at the most important position in the game. This guy could play for us for the next 10-15 yrs. How many did walker play for the vikings?? Plus we would be giving up maybe 4-5 picks at the most. Your comparison is way off base.
The Cowboys turned that trade into Aikman, Irvin, and Smith and won 3 Super Bowls.
What players could St. Louis grab to make them want to trade? We have a lot of the same needs as they do on the offensive side of the ball. Receivers and OL. On defense, they probably need even more than we do.
That's not entirely true. Aikman was drafted in 89, and Irvin in 88. Walker was traded in the fall of 89. They did use one of those picks on Smith.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 05:40 AM
The posters who think we are getting for only our two first rounders and a mid-round pick are living in a dreamworld.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 05:49 AM
Watching All bets are off, and just heard that washington is offering the rams their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and next years number 1 to move up......I really like RG3, but not for that price. I woul of been ok with both of our number 1s this year and thats it. If this is true then we need to go hard after Matt Flynn, draft Richardson, then get Michael Floyd at 22, and snag a RT in round 2. Still think we should take a look at LaMichael James in round 3
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 05:52 AM
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Our two firsts and a second should surpass that if we really want RG3.
We have a huge advantage having the 4th pick. That allows them to get one of Claiborne, Blackmon, or Kalil.
The Redskin's pick doesn't give them that guarantee. The 4th pick gives them a shot at one of the top 2 non-QB players of the draft too.
^^^^^^^^^^^ This is exactly why I think we're going to end up with the winning bid on RGIII at the end of the day.
People can crunch the draft value chart until they're blue in the face but if I'm St. Louis, getting a couple hundred or so extra points out of Washington isn't going to mean anything if they trade down to #6 and see RGIII/Kalil/Blackmon/Claiborne go off the board right before they pick. They have crap at OT, WR and CB... picking at #4 allows them to take the best player in the draft at one of those positions. To me, trading down to #4 and STILL getting an elite player easily trumps trading down to #6 and praying someone falls. Oh, and we can also give them 2 firsts NOW versus a Washington forward loaded deal.
Unless Washington actually pulls the trade off or we say we're not trying to trade up, I'm going to assume they're being used by the Rams for leverage to squeeze more out of us... it just doesn't make sense for St. Louis to pull a trade off with them if they can pull one off with us for a similar return... we're holding all kinds of ammo that Washington just doesn't possess.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 05:58 AM
i guess all the draft talk was starting to slow down, so someone decided to throw a little gas on the fire...
Gatta put all those Blogs and Articles out somehow...
Gatta put all those Blogs and Articles out somehow...
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 06:01 AM
Bruce Drennan's "source" was MKC....so I take it for what its worth. All I was saying was if that is true, then we need to pass. Not throwing fire on anything...just giving my opinion. Or are we not allowed to do that anymore?
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 06:04 AM
I didn't mean you, i meant the people that put out stories they heard from "unnamed sources"
It's the one media tool I think I hate the most...
It's the one media tool I think I hate the most...
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 06:07 AM
Oh alright, I thought you was talking about me.....yeah I think by the time the draft comes around we are going to hear talk about Indy taking RG3, and Luck slipping out of the 2nd round lol.....gotta hate how the media puts fake stories out there.
I say stay at 4, get Richardson, then Floyd at 22....if not Floyd then that kid from GT/
I say stay at 4, get Richardson, then Floyd at 22....if not Floyd then that kid from GT/
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 06:19 AM
Part of me is ok with drafting Richardson...
Part of me thinks its somewhat of a "waste"
I'd rather go Claiborne...
Part of me thinks its somewhat of a "waste"
I'd rather go Claiborne...
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 06:20 AM
I am looking at the #22 as a bonus of sorts. If we aren't set on using it then why not let some other team who wants to trade back into the first nab it? Grab a high 2nd rounder and a first in 2013. OR ... pick up a third to drop down a few spots ... then use that third with a 5th or a 4th and move back up into the 2nd. We do have leverage and if Heckert wheels and deals we COULD walk away from this draft with another bounty of maybe 5 starters with a few more developmental players. I'd hate to waste a lot of that on one guy ...
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 06:58 AM
NRTU
It's all Business!!
Here's my quick take on things. I have to put myself in any NFL teams Front Office when I decide ultimately what is the price I'm willing to pay for RGIII. He looks like the real deal in pretty well every way and he's going to be a STAR from day one. Now I'm not saying he is going to be a good NFL QB (which I think he will) but in terms of the media and his fan base this guy can turn many cities (except Miami) into the sort of thing we had here with LeBron. Everyone just loves this guy and if he turns out to be the real deal or anything close to it he will make someone alot of money. In the end Draft Picks are great and all but if your the owner of a franchise and you got a chance to make some major coin off this kid how much would you pay? How many prime time games will he draw just on name alone? In the end it is a business and this trade thing could get out of hand. I hope I'm wrong and we get him for a good deal.
It's all Business!!
Here's my quick take on things. I have to put myself in any NFL teams Front Office when I decide ultimately what is the price I'm willing to pay for RGIII. He looks like the real deal in pretty well every way and he's going to be a STAR from day one. Now I'm not saying he is going to be a good NFL QB (which I think he will) but in terms of the media and his fan base this guy can turn many cities (except Miami) into the sort of thing we had here with LeBron. Everyone just loves this guy and if he turns out to be the real deal or anything close to it he will make someone alot of money. In the end Draft Picks are great and all but if your the owner of a franchise and you got a chance to make some major coin off this kid how much would you pay? How many prime time games will he draw just on name alone? In the end it is a business and this trade thing could get out of hand. I hope I'm wrong and we get him for a good deal.
Re: RGIII part 2 - 02/27/12 09:22 AM
What's up Brown's fans, Skin fan checking in. Awesome site, just wanted to add my perspective as I've enjoyed reading yours.
First, I hate it and some skin fans are oblivious to this but RG3 belongs to you guys IF you (REALLY) want him. Obviously, you guys trump what we can offer (2 1st and a higher pick in each round).
But second,I see a few too many either adovocating RG3 with your 4th or underestimating the artifical value of this #2. JMO, there is no doubt RG3 goes to either the browns or the skins at 2, and this will marvel the '99 Ricky Williams trade. Shanahan doesn't show his cards to anyone, but report yesterday was Skins are putting up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and next years 1st. Only reason I think this could be out is to get this pick lined up before FA begins. So question isn't can the Brown's beat that but are you guys willing too?
I think the Skins have a few less holes (i know pot meet kettle) but I see our Defense being a little closer, plus with 40 mil in Cap space we can get the FA help. To me, there is no doubt Shanny/Allen pull the trigger and go crazy, So I'm just curious about the consensus here on a serious bidding war.
HTTR!!
First, I hate it and some skin fans are oblivious to this but RG3 belongs to you guys IF you (REALLY) want him. Obviously, you guys trump what we can offer (2 1st and a higher pick in each round).
But second,I see a few too many either adovocating RG3 with your 4th or underestimating the artifical value of this #2. JMO, there is no doubt RG3 goes to either the browns or the skins at 2, and this will marvel the '99 Ricky Williams trade. Shanahan doesn't show his cards to anyone, but report yesterday was Skins are putting up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and next years 1st. Only reason I think this could be out is to get this pick lined up before FA begins. So question isn't can the Brown's beat that but are you guys willing too?
I think the Skins have a few less holes (i know pot meet kettle) but I see our Defense being a little closer, plus with 40 mil in Cap space we can get the FA help. To me, there is no doubt Shanny/Allen pull the trigger and go crazy, So I'm just curious about the consensus here on a serious bidding war.
HTTR!!
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 10:27 AM
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People can crunch the draft value chart until they're blue in the face but if I'm St. Louis, getting a couple hundred or so extra points out of Washington isn't going to mean anything if they trade down to #6 and see RGIII/Kalil/Blackmon/Claiborne go off the board right before they pick. They have crap at OT, WR and CB... picking at #4 allows them to take the best player in the draft at one of those positions. To me, trading down to #4 and STILL getting an elite player easily trumps trading down to #6 and praying someone falls. Oh, and we can also give them 2 firsts NOW versus a Washington forward loaded deal.
U get it bud...
One could actually say that our 4 and 22 supercedes the Skins 1st 2nd AND 3rd...Teams ALWAYS prefer picks NOW...4 and 22 are NOW...And u got it exact when u say 4 versus 6...Dropping off 4 to be at 6 is HUGE here...
Some think the talent in the Top 15 is a wash all the way thru...I literally LMAO when I see that one...It's gonna end up being a concensus when this is all said and done...There are FIVE ELITE players in this draft...SIX if u wanna add Blackmon...And last time I checked...NO NFL GM will take a 6'0" WR that doesn't run 4.4 or less in the Top 5...Blackmon is NOT the class of Johnson/Green...
As u said...And u got this pegged...Go to 4 and u r GUARANTEED your choice of 2 of these 3...
Kalil
Claiborne
Richardson
Minny is about guaranteed to go Kalil or Claiborne...Rams at 4 r guaranteed the other...They LOSE BOTH if they go down to 6 cause I bout guarantee ya' the Browns r going Claiborne at 4 to pair with Haden...
I don't give a rats ass what the Skins offer the Rams...If at the last minute we offer 4 and 22 and our 2013 1st rounder...They will take it...I'd go so far as to say our 4 and 37 with one of our 4th rounders and the 2013 1st rounder gets it done...
If the Rams go to 6 they will now be staring 2nd level talent right in the face...
Our 4 and 22 easily trumps Washington's 6 and their 2nd AND 3rd rounder...
WE r in the drivers seat with this...We're just smart enuff to not Broadcast it...And there won't be any bidding war...That 22 pick is GOLDEN...As much as the 4 pick is...And that 22 pick trumps almost EVERYTHING the Skins can offer in THIS draft...
The Rams would be IGNORANT to take Quantity from the Skins and drop to 6 versus the QUALITY of picks and the 4 pick from us...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 11:07 AM
You can't say talent drops off at pick 5 (boy, that's convenient for your case lol) and then say your 22, supercedes Washington's 39, 70 and next year's #1. (and lets be honest, that's a top 10) .
Frankly, you're sleeping on Riley Reiff and some good defensive tallent and I highly doubt the Rams are. I also think Jeff Fischer might have more confidence that he can find talent outside the top 5 then you're giving him credit for lol. As a side note, Fisher brought in Greg Williams to be the D coordinator. I know his style well and he does have a way of getting more picks his way.
I already said Brown's are in the drivers seat but the price you're talking is too low, you guys are gonna have to give up picks next year.
and BTW, like i said I highly doubt the 123,1 rumor came from inside the organisation (considering it was reported by a philly reporter) but I do think that is the ball park we need to be looking at.
HTTR
Frankly, you're sleeping on Riley Reiff and some good defensive tallent and I highly doubt the Rams are. I also think Jeff Fischer might have more confidence that he can find talent outside the top 5 then you're giving him credit for lol. As a side note, Fisher brought in Greg Williams to be the D coordinator. I know his style well and he does have a way of getting more picks his way.
I already said Brown's are in the drivers seat but the price you're talking is too low, you guys are gonna have to give up picks next year.
and BTW, like i said I highly doubt the 123,1 rumor came from inside the organisation (considering it was reported by a philly reporter) but I do think that is the ball park we need to be looking at.
HTTR
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 11:32 AM
Quote:
You can't say talent drops off at pick 5 (boy, that's convenient for your case lol) and then say your 22, supercedes Washington's 39, 70 and next year's #1. (and lets be honest, that's a top 10) .
Yeah I can...And yes it is convenient...lol...
NFL teams WILL NOT guess at what a future first round pick will be...Way too many variables...That would be suicide...
Kalil>Reiff
Claiborne>Kirkpatrick
Richardson>Anyone else
Blackmon...Very close to Floyd
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 11:57 AM
jc
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-s...ffin-III-022612
3. Is there a mystery team wanting Robert Griffin III?
The Rams have their fingers crossed on this scenario while the media world merely talks about Cleveland and Washington as being the most logical trading partners. The Rams want a lot, and Cleveland’s two first-round picks (4th and 22nd) won’t be enough compensation for the second pick in the draft. The Rams know the Redskins will be aggressive, but they have been getting weird, uninterested signals from the Browns.
One of the problems is that Mike “Big Show” Holmgren has never really done a trade of this magnitude and, two, his coaching staff remains confused on what to do with RGIII. Their talk of him being Michael Vick-like doesn’t create confidence with Holmgren. Nor does it help him that GM Tom Heckert has been out of commission because of a serious illness.
Let me tell you, I think Andy Reid would trade Vick straight up for RG3. Personally, I think the Cowboys should be interested in RG3, but one mystery team might be the Broncos. John Elway loves the Heisman winner, and it’s been no secret that their scouting department did extensive homework on college quarterbacks last fall. Then again, Elway may just hope that Ryan Tannehill falls to them.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-s...ffin-III-022612
3. Is there a mystery team wanting Robert Griffin III?
The Rams have their fingers crossed on this scenario while the media world merely talks about Cleveland and Washington as being the most logical trading partners. The Rams want a lot, and Cleveland’s two first-round picks (4th and 22nd) won’t be enough compensation for the second pick in the draft. The Rams know the Redskins will be aggressive, but they have been getting weird, uninterested signals from the Browns.
One of the problems is that Mike “Big Show” Holmgren has never really done a trade of this magnitude and, two, his coaching staff remains confused on what to do with RGIII. Their talk of him being Michael Vick-like doesn’t create confidence with Holmgren. Nor does it help him that GM Tom Heckert has been out of commission because of a serious illness.
Let me tell you, I think Andy Reid would trade Vick straight up for RG3. Personally, I think the Cowboys should be interested in RG3, but one mystery team might be the Broncos. John Elway loves the Heisman winner, and it’s been no secret that their scouting department did extensive homework on college quarterbacks last fall. Then again, Elway may just hope that Ryan Tannehill falls to them.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:05 PM
Quote:
The history of the chart indicates it's a guide, not gospel. For a brief time the "it" thing to do during the draft was to follow JJ's chart without question. It hasn't been followed down to the exact number for quite a while.
While I understand why you used that example of 5 top guys, I am curious if you actually feel there are 5 can't miss guys, then a serious drop-off at 6, and if so, who they might be.
No, my eample was purely hypothetical on the basis that the 5th pick resides right in the middle of the 2 expected bidders in the RGIII battle, and was demonstrating that the 4th pick could be way more valuable than the 6th based on talent available.
TBH, I haven't followed the draft prospects much this year at all. I had an unusually busy schedule this past season and even missed a couple Browns games, which is not typical, and saw very little college beyond highlights.
And I apologize because my reply was not specifically directed toward your post, but merely used your post as a jump off to my thought.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:21 PM
Quote:
Good comparison, I'd take the picks in 2011, 2008, 2007, 2006, and with the QB in 2010 and 2009 -- I'll give you 2008 as being close-ish.
I'll bet that even in the years that you say take the QB, if you looked deeper into it there are players around those draft slots that would have made it worth it to take the players.. .just because that exact number pick in that year didn't work out doesn't make it any better of a deal.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 01:53 PM
I've gotta think the Rams are focused on either Kalil or Blackmon. If Kalil is there, I think the Vikings take him. If the Rams trade down to 6, there is a chance that we take Blackmon (though I think unlikely), but I really don't see how Jax would pass him up. Also, if there are other teams out there who need a WR, they might trade up with Jax to grab him, thereby leaving the Rams in the cold.
As others have said, we might not offer all the picks that Washington does, but the no. 4 pick should make up for that. But, all that's considering whether we even want RGIII.
JMHO
As others have said, we might not offer all the picks that Washington does, but the no. 4 pick should make up for that. But, all that's considering whether we even want RGIII.
JMHO
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:03 PM
j/c
at what point do the vikes become the player here instead of the rams. Maybe it would be collusion, but i think the browns, skins, seahawks, dolphins can pretty much all get together and agree to talk to the vikes. There is no way the rams take RGIII, they can't even make a plausible bluff on this one. And besides that, Kalil would look pretty good blocking for Bradford and their megamillion QB. Maybe an outsider would come in, but then the rams would really be dropping in the draft, not sure they would do that...
And along those lines, if the browns decide they do not want RGIII, that would make us the player. No need to go up to #2 or #3 for him, RGIII would go thru the browns. The only reason teams feel they need to get up high for him, is to get ahead of the browns.
at what point do the vikes become the player here instead of the rams. Maybe it would be collusion, but i think the browns, skins, seahawks, dolphins can pretty much all get together and agree to talk to the vikes. There is no way the rams take RGIII, they can't even make a plausible bluff on this one. And besides that, Kalil would look pretty good blocking for Bradford and their megamillion QB. Maybe an outsider would come in, but then the rams would really be dropping in the draft, not sure they would do that...
And along those lines, if the browns decide they do not want RGIII, that would make us the player. No need to go up to #2 or #3 for him, RGIII would go thru the browns. The only reason teams feel they need to get up high for him, is to get ahead of the browns.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:13 PM
If the Rams get that 3 first round picks plus a couple more (which is apparently their asking price), I think they might have the buying power to move back to 3 and get kalil. They throw a 2nd and 4th to move up a couple of spots and the vikings will jump all over it.
BTW we are building through the draft and no way holmgren and heckert spend picks like that and again I believe Tannehill is the QB they covet.
BTW we are building through the draft and no way holmgren and heckert spend picks like that and again I believe Tannehill is the QB they covet.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:31 PM
Quote:
I believe Tannehill is the QB they covet.
But why do you believe that?
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:37 PM
He is from basically the same offense we run. The Browns scouted this kid HARD. I think they know him probably better than he knows himself by now and the Mike Sherman connection to this team can't be overlooked.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 02:53 PM
I think Luck is the guy they covet (to use the definition of the word correctly), but we aren't getting him. After that, I think we draft another QB, but not before our 2nd round pick and likely not until the third. Too many here are pretending ego doesn't exist as a factor in these decisions. Holmgren believes it takes time to learn his WCO. Holmgren hand picked Colt. Holmgren is unlikely to trade up (unless it is for a song) to take a risk on a QB whose failure could potentially impact Holmgren's legacy as a QB guru. I am betting (barring injury) that Colt opens up as the starter and that we don't take a QB with either of our 2 round 1 picks, or trades from them).
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:02 PM
I dont think Colt was "hand picked". He fell, we got him. That simple.
I like Tannehill also. Just wish we had a solid vet he could learn behind.
I like Tannehill also. Just wish we had a solid vet he could learn behind.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:03 PM
Quote:Except:
Holmgren is unlikely to trade up (unless it is for a song) to take a risk on a QB whose failure could potentially impact Holmgren's legacy as a QB guru.
A: He admitted he was going HARD after Bradford by....wait for it...trading UP, and
B: Far more people than not in the NFL believe McCoy is a failure, and thus by sticking his neck out for him, Holmgren's reputation as a "guru" has been impacted.
So...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:04 PM
Also, I would find it hard to believe that Holmgren is going to stake his rep on a 3rd round QB.
Now, if McCoy turns out to be an all-pro, then Holmgren looks like a genius. But, if he falls flat, Holmgren can just say "well, there's a reason he fell to the 3rd round..."
Now, if McCoy turns out to be an all-pro, then Holmgren looks like a genius. But, if he falls flat, Holmgren can just say "well, there's a reason he fell to the 3rd round..."
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:13 PM
Quote:
Quote:Except:
Holmgren is unlikely to trade up (unless it is for a song) to take a risk on a QB whose failure could potentially impact Holmgren's legacy as a QB guru.
A: He admitted he was going HARD after Bradford by....wait for it...trading UP, and
B: Far more people than not in the NFL believe McCoy is a failure, and thus by sticking his neck out for him, Holmgren's reputation as a "guru" has been impacted.
So...
I don't think you could know B for sure. If you would have said, far more fans and media types feel that McCoy is a failure, I'd have agreed with you. But those in the NFL? they aren't talking so I don't know how you can say that.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:18 PM
Quote:
Also, I would find it hard to believe that Holmgren is going to stake his rep on a 3rd round QB.
Now, if McCoy turns out to be an all-pro, then Holmgren looks like a genius. But, if he falls flat, Holmgren can just say "well, there's a reason he fell to the 3rd round..."
And if Holmgren's smart...He'll land RGIII and have McCoy as his #2...
RGIII succeeds here and McCoy keeps working...Now THAT'S genius...Or "Guruish"...
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:28 PM
Quote:
his coaching staff remains confused on what to do with RGIII.
Personally, this is the point that i'm back and forth on. And as it currently sits I feel that the chances of RGIII being a bust is far less then the chance of our coaching staff not allowing him to be a good as he can be. I have ZERO faith in Shurmer turning this kid into gold.
Re: Shurmur Says talk of RG3 to the Browns is Premature - 02/27/12 03:29 PM
Quote:
He is from basically the same offense we run. The Browns scouted this kid HARD. I think they know him probably better than he knows himself by now and the Mike Sherman connection to this team can't be overlooked.
I ride u hard about Tanny...But if we go this route they best be right...Same thing with RGIII...Cause we're looking at obviously a pretty high first rounder for a QB that is one of the most...If not THE most inexperienced to EVER breech the Top 10...
Answer this...There is ZERO chance we will take Tanny at 4...Dream all u want but we will NOT take a player who is most likely rated OUTSIDE our Top 7...Probably even our Top 10...
If this draft goes...
Luck
RGIII
Kalil
And we sit at 4 with Claiborne there...Who I KNOW u like as much as me...Are u willing to move down for Tannehill and leave Claiborne on the board???...You're looking at losing an IMPACT PLAYER for a PROJECT...
Tanny's lack of experience makes him a project...Don't kid yourself...
Could we do it and go with McCoy in 2012???...Sure we could...But gosh damn it Mour...We'd be leaving a bonafide STUD behind in Claiborne...
I always say 2 things about a draft...ANY draft...
1) Don't over-think it...
2) Let it come to u...