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All Pro
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All Pro
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NRTU It's all Business!! Here's my quick take on things. I have to put myself in any NFL teams Front Office when I decide ultimately what is the price I'm willing to pay for RGIII. He looks like the real deal in pretty well every way and he's going to be a STAR from day one. Now I'm not saying he is going to be a good NFL QB (which I think he will) but in terms of the media and his fan base this guy can turn many cities (except Miami) into the sort of thing we had here with LeBron. Everyone just loves this guy and if he turns out to be the real deal or anything close to it he will make someone alot of money. In the end Draft Picks are great and all but if your the owner of a franchise and you got a chance to make some major coin off this kid how much would you pay? How many prime time games will he draw just on name alone? In the end it is a business and this trade thing could get out of hand. I hope I'm wrong and we get him for a good deal. 
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What's up Brown's fans, Skin fan checking in. Awesome site, just wanted to add my perspective as I've enjoyed reading yours.
First, I hate it and some skin fans are oblivious to this but RG3 belongs to you guys IF you (REALLY) want him. Obviously, you guys trump what we can offer (2 1st and a higher pick in each round).
But second,I see a few too many either adovocating RG3 with your 4th or underestimating the artifical value of this #2. JMO, there is no doubt RG3 goes to either the browns or the skins at 2, and this will marvel the '99 Ricky Williams trade. Shanahan doesn't show his cards to anyone, but report yesterday was Skins are putting up a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and next years 1st. Only reason I think this could be out is to get this pick lined up before FA begins. So question isn't can the Brown's beat that but are you guys willing too?
I think the Skins have a few less holes (i know pot meet kettle) but I see our Defense being a little closer, plus with 40 mil in Cap space we can get the FA help. To me, there is no doubt Shanny/Allen pull the trigger and go crazy, So I'm just curious about the consensus here on a serious bidding war.
HTTR!!
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People can crunch the draft value chart until they're blue in the face but if I'm St. Louis, getting a couple hundred or so extra points out of Washington isn't going to mean anything if they trade down to #6 and see RGIII/Kalil/Blackmon/Claiborne go off the board right before they pick. They have crap at OT, WR and CB... picking at #4 allows them to take the best player in the draft at one of those positions. To me, trading down to #4 and STILL getting an elite player easily trumps trading down to #6 and praying someone falls. Oh, and we can also give them 2 firsts NOW versus a Washington forward loaded deal.
U get it bud... 
One could actually say that our 4 and 22 supercedes the Skins 1st 2nd AND 3rd...Teams ALWAYS prefer picks NOW...4 and 22 are NOW...And u got it exact when u say 4 versus 6...Dropping off 4 to be at 6 is HUGE here...
Some think the talent in the Top 15 is a wash all the way thru...I literally LMAO when I see that one...It's gonna end up being a concensus when this is all said and done...There are FIVE ELITE players in this draft...SIX if u wanna add Blackmon...And last time I checked...NO NFL GM will take a 6'0" WR that doesn't run 4.4 or less in the Top 5...Blackmon is NOT the class of Johnson/Green...
As u said...And u got this pegged...Go to 4 and u r GUARANTEED your choice of 2 of these 3...
Kalil
Claiborne
Richardson
Minny is about guaranteed to go Kalil or Claiborne...Rams at 4 r guaranteed the other...They LOSE BOTH if they go down to 6 cause I bout guarantee ya' the Browns r going Claiborne at 4 to pair with Haden...
I don't give a rats ass what the Skins offer the Rams...If at the last minute we offer 4 and 22 and our 2013 1st rounder...They will take it...I'd go so far as to say our 4 and 37 with one of our 4th rounders and the 2013 1st rounder gets it done...
If the Rams go to 6 they will now be staring 2nd level talent right in the face...
Our 4 and 22 easily trumps Washington's 6 and their 2nd AND 3rd rounder...
WE r in the drivers seat with this...We're just smart enuff to not Broadcast it...And there won't be any bidding war...That 22 pick is GOLDEN...As much as the 4 pick is...And that 22 pick trumps almost EVERYTHING the Skins can offer in THIS draft...
The Rams would be IGNORANT to take Quantity from the Skins and drop to 6 versus the QUALITY of picks and the 4 pick from us...
Go Browns!!!
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You can't say talent drops off at pick 5 (boy, that's convenient for your case lol) and then say your 22, supercedes Washington's 39, 70 and next year's #1. (and lets be honest, that's a top 10) .
Frankly, you're sleeping on Riley Reiff and some good defensive tallent and I highly doubt the Rams are. I also think Jeff Fischer might have more confidence that he can find talent outside the top 5 then you're giving him credit for lol. As a side note, Fisher brought in Greg Williams to be the D coordinator. I know his style well and he does have a way of getting more picks his way.
I already said Brown's are in the drivers seat but the price you're talking is too low, you guys are gonna have to give up picks next year.
and BTW, like i said I highly doubt the 123,1 rumor came from inside the organisation (considering it was reported by a philly reporter) but I do think that is the ball park we need to be looking at.
HTTR
Last edited by Skinsfan84; 02/27/12 07:11 AM.
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Quote:
You can't say talent drops off at pick 5 (boy, that's convenient for your case lol) and then say your 22, supercedes Washington's 39, 70 and next year's #1. (and lets be honest, that's a top 10) .
Yeah I can...And yes it is convenient...lol... 
NFL teams WILL NOT guess at what a future first round pick will be...Way too many variables...That would be suicide...
Kalil>Reiff
Claiborne>Kirkpatrick
Richardson>Anyone else
Blackmon...Very close to Floyd
Go Browns!!!
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jc http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-s...ffin-III-0226123. Is there a mystery team wanting Robert Griffin III? The Rams have their fingers crossed on this scenario while the media world merely talks about Cleveland and Washington as being the most logical trading partners. The Rams want a lot, and Cleveland’s two first-round picks (4th and 22nd) won’t be enough compensation for the second pick in the draft. The Rams know the Redskins will be aggressive, but they have been getting weird, uninterested signals from the Browns. One of the problems is that Mike “Big Show” Holmgren has never really done a trade of this magnitude and, two, his coaching staff remains confused on what to do with RGIII. Their talk of him being Michael Vick-like doesn’t create confidence with Holmgren. Nor does it help him that GM Tom Heckert has been out of commission because of a serious illness. Let me tell you, I think Andy Reid would trade Vick straight up for RG3. Personally, I think the Cowboys should be interested in RG3, but one mystery team might be the Broncos. John Elway loves the Heisman winner, and it’s been no secret that their scouting department did extensive homework on college quarterbacks last fall. Then again, Elway may just hope that Ryan Tannehill falls to them.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Legend
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Quote:
The history of the chart indicates it's a guide, not gospel. For a brief time the "it" thing to do during the draft was to follow JJ's chart without question. It hasn't been followed down to the exact number for quite a while.
While I understand why you used that example of 5 top guys, I am curious if you actually feel there are 5 can't miss guys, then a serious drop-off at 6, and if so, who they might be.
No, my eample was purely hypothetical on the basis that the 5th pick resides right in the middle of the 2 expected bidders in the RGIII battle, and was demonstrating that the 4th pick could be way more valuable than the 6th based on talent available.
TBH, I haven't followed the draft prospects much this year at all. I had an unusually busy schedule this past season and even missed a couple Browns games, which is not typical, and saw very little college beyond highlights.
And I apologize because my reply was not specifically directed toward your post, but merely used your post as a jump off to my thought.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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Good comparison, I'd take the picks in 2011, 2008, 2007, 2006, and with the QB in 2010 and 2009 -- I'll give you 2008 as being close-ish.
I'll bet that even in the years that you say take the QB, if you looked deeper into it there are players around those draft slots that would have made it worth it to take the players.. .just because that exact number pick in that year didn't work out doesn't make it any better of a deal.
yebat' Putin
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I've gotta think the Rams are focused on either Kalil or Blackmon. If Kalil is there, I think the Vikings take him. If the Rams trade down to 6, there is a chance that we take Blackmon (though I think unlikely), but I really don't see how Jax would pass him up. Also, if there are other teams out there who need a WR, they might trade up with Jax to grab him, thereby leaving the Rams in the cold.
As others have said, we might not offer all the picks that Washington does, but the no. 4 pick should make up for that. But, all that's considering whether we even want RGIII.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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j/c
at what point do the vikes become the player here instead of the rams. Maybe it would be collusion, but i think the browns, skins, seahawks, dolphins can pretty much all get together and agree to talk to the vikes. There is no way the rams take RGIII, they can't even make a plausible bluff on this one. And besides that, Kalil would look pretty good blocking for Bradford and their megamillion QB. Maybe an outsider would come in, but then the rams would really be dropping in the draft, not sure they would do that...
And along those lines, if the browns decide they do not want RGIII, that would make us the player. No need to go up to #2 or #3 for him, RGIII would go thru the browns. The only reason teams feel they need to get up high for him, is to get ahead of the browns.
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If the Rams get that 3 first round picks plus a couple more (which is apparently their asking price), I think they might have the buying power to move back to 3 and get kalil. They throw a 2nd and 4th to move up a couple of spots and the vikings will jump all over it.
BTW we are building through the draft and no way holmgren and heckert spend picks like that and again I believe Tannehill is the QB they covet.
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I believe Tannehill is the QB they covet.
But why do you believe that?
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He is from basically the same offense we run. The Browns scouted this kid HARD. I think they know him probably better than he knows himself by now and the Mike Sherman connection to this team can't be overlooked.
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1st String
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I think Luck is the guy they covet (to use the definition of the word correctly), but we aren't getting him. After that, I think we draft another QB, but not before our 2nd round pick and likely not until the third. Too many here are pretending ego doesn't exist as a factor in these decisions. Holmgren believes it takes time to learn his WCO. Holmgren hand picked Colt. Holmgren is unlikely to trade up (unless it is for a song) to take a risk on a QB whose failure could potentially impact Holmgren's legacy as a QB guru. I am betting (barring injury) that Colt opens up as the starter and that we don't take a QB with either of our 2 round 1 picks, or trades from them).
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I dont think Colt was "hand picked". He fell, we got him. That simple.
I like Tannehill also. Just wish we had a solid vet he could learn behind.
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Quote:
Holmgren is unlikely to trade up (unless it is for a song) to take a risk on a QB whose failure could potentially impact Holmgren's legacy as a QB guru.
Except:
A: He admitted he was going HARD after Bradford by....wait for it...trading UP, and
B: Far more people than not in the NFL believe McCoy is a failure, and thus by sticking his neck out for him, Holmgren's reputation as a "guru" has been impacted.
So...
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Also, I would find it hard to believe that Holmgren is going to stake his rep on a 3rd round QB.
Now, if McCoy turns out to be an all-pro, then Holmgren looks like a genius. But, if he falls flat, Holmgren can just say "well, there's a reason he fell to the 3rd round..."
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Legend
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Holmgren is unlikely to trade up (unless it is for a song) to take a risk on a QB whose failure could potentially impact Holmgren's legacy as a QB guru.
Except:
A: He admitted he was going HARD after Bradford by....wait for it...trading UP, and
B: Far more people than not in the NFL believe McCoy is a failure, and thus by sticking his neck out for him, Holmgren's reputation as a "guru" has been impacted.
So...
I don't think you could know B for sure. If you would have said, far more fans and media types feel that McCoy is a failure, I'd have agreed with you. But those in the NFL? they aren't talking so I don't know how you can say that.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Also, I would find it hard to believe that Holmgren is going to stake his rep on a 3rd round QB.
Now, if McCoy turns out to be an all-pro, then Holmgren looks like a genius. But, if he falls flat, Holmgren can just say "well, there's a reason he fell to the 3rd round..."
And if Holmgren's smart...He'll land RGIII and have McCoy as his #2...
RGIII succeeds here and McCoy keeps working...Now THAT'S genius...Or "Guruish"...
Go Browns!!!
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Dawg Talker
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his coaching staff remains confused on what to do with RGIII.
Personally, this is the point that i'm back and forth on. And as it currently sits I feel that the chances of RGIII being a bust is far less then the chance of our coaching staff not allowing him to be a good as he can be. I have ZERO faith in Shurmer turning this kid into gold.
Crowded elevators smell different to short people...
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He is from basically the same offense we run. The Browns scouted this kid HARD. I think they know him probably better than he knows himself by now and the Mike Sherman connection to this team can't be overlooked.
I ride u hard about Tanny...But if we go this route they best be right...Same thing with RGIII...Cause we're looking at obviously a pretty high first rounder for a QB that is one of the most...If not THE most inexperienced to EVER breech the Top 10...
Answer this...There is ZERO chance we will take Tanny at 4...Dream all u want but we will NOT take a player who is most likely rated OUTSIDE our Top 7...Probably even our Top 10...
If this draft goes...
Luck
RGIII
Kalil
And we sit at 4 with Claiborne there...Who I KNOW u like as much as me...Are u willing to move down for Tannehill and leave Claiborne on the board???...You're looking at losing an IMPACT PLAYER for a PROJECT...
Tanny's lack of experience makes him a project...Don't kid yourself...
Could we do it and go with McCoy in 2012???...Sure we could...But gosh damn it Mour...We'd be leaving a bonafide STUD behind in Claiborne...
I always say 2 things about a draft...ANY draft...
1) Don't over-think it...
2) Let it come to u...
Go Browns!!!
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Forums The Archives 2013 NFL Season NFL Draft (2013) RGIII part 2
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