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Posted By: Swish Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 01:12 AM
Y'all for it or against it.

if yes or nor, why?

IF you do support banning weed, do you then agree that alcohol should also be illegal?

Do you support legalizing more drugs?

Here's my take:

I support weed( no surprise, i know), I also support taking the money on the war on drugs, and using it to instead educate and help clean up people with hardcore addicts.

I believe all drugs should be decriminalized. HOWEVER, if you're caught stealing, or being in a domestic violence dispute while high on ANYTHING, including alcohol, the fine/jail time should be doubled or TRIPLED compared with crimes committed while sober.

I believe in personal responsibility. I believe its a double standard to want to ban weed, while people fake injuries/mental illness to get pills, or since the leading causes of violence and accidents is alcohol.

However, i also believe it's still a companies/corporation's RIGHT to not allow drug users in their place of business. i actually support that, yes. even though i'm a stoner. I get it, companies have an image to protect.

I believe the military should be allowed to smoke, with the exception of month long training schedules(NTC, MCT, WLC, etc) and deployments.

I believe parents should also have the right, as long as they have the medical proof, to give their kids has oils, as it is PROVEN to help with epilepsy and other conditions.

I think Portugal has it right. actual drug use in the country, and crimes committed has went down.

This not only will free up our population problem in prison, but as long as it isn't taxed to death, will make a HUGE blow to cartels in our country.

and just for you 40, i believe they should take the restrictions off of cigarette smokers. it's a personal responsibility. however, the no smoking in public ban and all that should apply to all drugs, as i understand that the majority doesn't want to be around that stuff.

Oh yea, free my homeboy Jaquan, just got locked up for having 3 joints in his car.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 01:18 AM
oh yea, OldCal, thanks for the tip at that one VA hospital. they actually had walk-ins available and i was able to see a psychiatrist and get my meds refilled. Thanks so much bro.
Marijuana use amongst teens in Colorado, dropped after the first year of legalization

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014...er-legalization

That being said, how long do you think before Marijuana is legal in Ohio? I'd guess 5 years
I'm not for legalizing pot.

However, if it becomes legal, I would like to see it regulated just as strictly, if not more strictly, than alcohol.

Tax the hell out of it. Let the potheads pay the taxes. Put a limit - a strict limit - on how much can be grown by an individual. If they are found to exceed that limit, put them in prison.

If pot is bought on the street (as opposed to a legal pot vendor/store) both the seller and the buyer get .....I don't know - 5 years in prison. Mandatory. Why? Because if you don't have a system like that set up, but make pot legal, no one will buy from the "legal" places.

Go ahead, legalize it. But make the penalty for illegal growing or selling extemely punitive.

Get it legal, then pay the taxes. If you don't, prison, mandatory sentence.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 01:30 AM
Originally Posted By: BuckDawg1946
Marijuana use amongst teens in Colorado, dropped after the first year of legalization

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014...er-legalization

That being said, how long do you think before Marijuana is legal in Ohio? I'd guess 5 years


hopefully not that long. maybe 2.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 01:31 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
I'm not for legalizing pot.

However, if it becomes legal, I would like to see it regulated just as strictly, if not more strictly, than alcohol.

Tax the hell out of it. Let the potheads pay the taxes. Put a limit - a strict limit - on how much can be grown by an individual. If they are found to exceed that limit, put them in prison.

If pot is bought on the street (as opposed to a legal pot vendor/store) both the seller and the buyer get .....I don't know - 5 years in prison. Mandatory. Why? Because if you don't have a system like that set up, but make pot legal, no one will buy from the "legal" places.

Go ahead, legalize it. But make the penalty for illegal growing or selling extemely punitive.

Get it legal, then pay the taxes. If you don't, prison, mandatory sentence.


you haven't stated why?

and you realize if it's taxed more, you continue giving the cartels more power, right?

The war on drugs has to be one of the biggest waste of tax payer's money. ever.
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
I'm not for legalizing pot.

However, if it becomes legal, I would like to see it regulated just as strictly, if not more strictly, than alcohol.

Tax the hell out of it. Let the potheads pay the taxes. Put a limit - a strict limit - on how much can be grown by an individual. If they are found to exceed that limit, put them in prison.

If pot is bought on the street (as opposed to a legal pot vendor/store) both the seller and the buyer get .....I don't know - 5 years in prison. Mandatory. Why? Because if you don't have a system like that set up, but make pot legal, no one will buy from the "legal" places.

Go ahead, legalize it. But make the penalty for illegal growing or selling extemely punitive.

Get it legal, then pay the taxes. If you don't, prison, mandatory sentence.


you haven't stated why?

and you realize if it's taxed more, you continue giving the cartels more power, right?

The war on drugs has to be one of the biggest waste of tax payer's money. ever.


If it were on the ballot tomorrow, I'd vote against it. THAT's "why".

If you followed along - and perhaps I didn't explain it well enough - but if pot were legalized, illegal growers, distributors, and sellers would face serious prison time.

Bam - cartels are out of it. Right?

Oh, but it's not that easy. I understand. Potheads won't buy at the legal stores, they'll continue to buy from the cheapest source. That's why, if it were to be legal, we jack up the prison time to seriously punitive levels. Caught buying, growing, selling, or distributing outside of the legal way - hey, maybe 15 years in prison. Mandatory.

If not, and all we do is legalized pot, we'll get no tax revenue, we won't stop the crimes associated with it's growth, use, selling, etc. And we won't do anything with the violence and back street murders.

If it's going to be legal, then make sure the illegal use is punishable in a manner that is punitive to the max. Otherwise, it's just saying "hell, smoke it, we don't care."

Driving under the influence of pot? (even 15 nanograms) gets you 30 days for the first offense. Second offense is a year. Third offense? 10 years. If you want it legal, there are going to be laws about it. You ready to deal with those laws?
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 01:58 AM
Thank god the other states don't view it as you do.

All i'm going to say in response to you on this topic.
Originally Posted By: Swish
Thank god the other states don't view it as you do.

All i'm going to say in response to you on this topic.


Well, I'm not done I guess.

You want pot legal, but don't want to pay the tax on it? Is that it? You want pot legal, but don't want laws for abuse applied, is that it?

Legalize it - just tax the hell out of it, like tobacco and alchohol. And if you're doing it illegally, face the damn prison time. Not hard to argue with that, is it?

Make it legal - just make the penalty for selling it illegally extremely punitive. There, you get what you want.

Or is it that you want to buy it from some guy without paying tax on it, yet be free to smoke it without fear of punishment?

If it becomes legal, punish the hell out of those that grow it, sell it illegally. It's how it works swish.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 02:18 AM
are you serious?

it shouldn't be insanely taxed. i didn't say NO taxes. but right now theres ZERO incentive to buy it at the stores, when you can still get medical weed from a speciality store and normal bud off the street cheaper.

When you tax the crap of out stuff like that, you're not actually solving any problems. i'm not sure how you don't understand that concept.

for instance, here in cleveland, if you don't know any body, you can get an 1/8th for 45-50 dollars, a quarter ounce for 100.

if they made it legal, but an 1/8th ran me 70 dollars and a quarter ran be 150, i'm not buying that. i'm still gonna by it from the streets. that high of taxes isn't solving any problems.

now if i can get an 1/8th for 55-60, and a quarter for 110-120, then yes, i WILL buy it legally. but you're talking about taxing them like they do cigarettes. that would be insane.
Sadly, I think you're the one that doesn't get it.

Pot won't ever be legalized if it isn't taxed.

Now, you do have a point about not buying it from the legal places if you can get it cheaper on the street. But, what that's doing is screwing the system. Kinda like Goethner..........make money, but don't pay taxes on it. Kinda like Sharpton - make money, but don't pay taxes. Kinda like the senator from detroit, make money but don't pay taxes.

Hey, if it works for you, it ought to work for all of us. I think none of us should pay taxes. Do you agree or disagree?
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 02:29 AM
huh?

i just said it should be taxed.

just not at some insane rate that you're talking about.
Originally Posted By: Swish
huh?

i just said it should be taxed.

just not at some insane rate that you're talking about.


Here in Ohio, the state makes $1.25 off a pack of smokes. Figure an average price of $5.50 per pack - that's about 23% in tax. That's just the state tax - don't know if the fed's get any or not.

You okay buying your pot at a 23% tax rate? If not, you're cheating the system if pot ever became legal. If it becomes legal, tax it at 23%. Get caught not paying the tax? Prison.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 02:44 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
huh?

i just said it should be taxed.

just not at some insane rate that you're talking about.


Here in Ohio, the state makes $1.25 off a pack of smokes. Figure an average price of $5.50 per pack - that's about 23% in tax. That's just the state tax - don't know if the fed's get any or not.

You okay buying your pot at a 23% tax rate? If not, you're cheating the system if pot ever became legal. If it becomes legal, tax it at 23%. Get caught not paying the tax? Prison.


thats not even bad. hell thats higher than what I PROPOSED in my post.

so sure. tax it at that rate. i'll buy it by the pound if that was the case.

everybody at the tail gate party would be blazed. on me.
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
huh?

i just said it should be taxed.

just not at some insane rate that you're talking about.


Here in Ohio, the state makes $1.25 off a pack of smokes. Figure an average price of $5.50 per pack - that's about 23% in tax. That's just the state tax - don't know if the fed's get any or not.

You okay buying your pot at a 23% tax rate? If not, you're cheating the system if pot ever became legal. If it becomes legal, tax it at 23%. Get caught not paying the tax? Prison.


thats not even bad. hell thats higher than what I PROPOSED in my post.

so sure. tax it at that rate. i'll buy it by the pound if that was the case.

everybody at the tail gate party would be blazed. on me.


Nah, I wouldn't be.

I still think you don't get it. A 23% tax rate is high, yes. But what I'm saying is if you get caught (if pot were legal) selling or buying without paying the tax, real prison time is in order.

After all, if real prison time doesn't come about, what's the use of making it legal? What's the use for someone to buy the license and set up shop?

Follow the money young man - follow the money. You don't want to pay? Take your chances. (and don't brag about it on a message board. smile )
Originally Posted By: Swish


thats not even bad. hell thats higher than what I PROPOSED in my post.


Is that what you meant to say?
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 02:52 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
huh?

i just said it should be taxed.

just not at some insane rate that you're talking about.


Here in Ohio, the state makes $1.25 off a pack of smokes. Figure an average price of $5.50 per pack - that's about 23% in tax. That's just the state tax - don't know if the fed's get any or not.

You okay buying your pot at a 23% tax rate? If not, you're cheating the system if pot ever became legal. If it becomes legal, tax it at 23%. Get caught not paying the tax? Prison.


thats not even bad. hell thats higher than what I PROPOSED in my post.

so sure. tax it at that rate. i'll buy it by the pound if that was the case.

everybody at the tail gate party would be blazed. on me.


Nah, I wouldn't be.

I still think you don't get it. A 23% tax rate is high, yes. But what I'm saying is if you get caught (if pot were legal) selling or buying without paying the tax, real prison time is in order.

After all, if real prison time doesn't come about, what's the use of making it legal? What's the use for someone to buy the license and set up shop?

Follow the money young man - follow the money. You don't want to pay? Take your chances. (and don't brag about it on a message board. smile )


i think it's dumb to put people in jail for buying pot off the street. i just can't get behind that. i can see fines, but not jail time.
Swish - you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

I think it's dumb to smoke pot. I think it's dumb to smoke cigs.

But, if pot ever becomes legal here and you can't imprison the illegal seller or illegal buyer, who's going to pony up the money to do it legit? Why would a person pay to get his pot selling cert. if he knows he'll be undersold by the dude out front of his store that faces nothing but a fine?

Fine the guy - next day, someone else will be out front selling pot cheaper........and the guy that got fined? He'll go underground for a bit.


Look - you've made it obvious you love your pot. I believe in a different thread you said something along the lines of you love it.

But it appears your love of pot doesn't mean you want to buy it legally and pay the price - you just want it legal, so you don't have to pay the OTHER price.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 03:11 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg
Swish - you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

I think it's dumb to smoke pot. I think it's dumb to smoke cigs.

But, if pot ever becomes legal here and you can't imprison the illegal seller or illegal buyer, who's going to pony up the money to do it legit? Why would a person pay to get his pot selling cert. if he knows he'll be undersold by the dude out front of his store that faces nothing but a fine?

Fine the guy - next day, someone else will be out front selling pot cheaper........and the guy that got fined? He'll go underground for a bit.


Look - you've made it obvious you love your pot. I believe in a different thread you said something along the lines of you love it.

But it appears your love of pot doesn't mean you want to buy it legally and pay the price - you just want it legal, so you don't have to pay the OTHER price.


uhh yea? who the hell wants to go to jail for something like that? me smoking pot effects.....thats right, nobody else.

Yes, i don't want to go to jail. yes i want pot legal. sure, i'll pay taxes. but not some stupid insane rate that makes weed DOUBLE the price its suppose to be.

and it's stupid, we got pedophiles getting less time in prison than pot sellers/users. you can't tell me that isn't wrong.
Pedophiles is a completely different subject. We can discuss that in depth in a different thread.

In this thread, however, we are talking about pot. IF it were legal, the penalties for selling it illegally, or buying it illegally, would need to be severe.

If they aren't, all you've done is legalize a drug with no benefit to the state. Follow the money.
Posted By: Kingcob Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 03:33 AM
I'd say legalize it and don't tax it.

But I basically say don't tax anything so the point is moot.

I hope society will get to some point where we don't see acts of self-medication as reason to throw people in jail to be beaten and raped.
I read somewhere a while back that Marijuana being a plant makes it a little more difficult to legalize in terms of taxes. Yes you can tax it, but it becomes not as profitable because you cannot patent it.

Yes, cigarettes are a huge industry, but it pales in comparison with pharmaceuticals which are mostly patented.

I don't know the validity of this, because I really don't know how accurate the numbers are.

I'd personally like to see Marijuana legal across the board. I wish I could smoke it. I enjoyed smoking it. I never drove around high or anything. It was just something I did at home. We get random drug tests at work so I don't even dare light up.

Does anyone know how companies and work places in Colorado are with drug testing? Have most businesses removed marijuana from it beause it's fully legal or are they still testing?
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 04:46 AM
it's mixed in Colorado.

some still have the ban on weed, while other CEO's took it off the policy completely because they smoke as well. so it's about 50/50,
I'm with you on the legalizing weed part and honestly I think a lot of cops would be fine with it as well. I think the most common sense approach to it is to apply laws/restrictions similar to what we have for alcohol (can't drink and drive, open containers in certain areas, etc). I'm not sure why people keep trying make this argument that weed or alcohol HAS to be held up higher than the other as the WORST???

As to the harder stuff: crack, heroin, MDMA, etc... you'd have harder time selling me on. Unlike weed, there are too many other crimes that those addicts commit in order to support their habit that directly effect too many other people (robberies, burglaries, theft, assaults, etc).

Archi- to your point about throwing the book at people who run illegal grow operations or possess weed they didn't buy at the store: how would I as a cop know where their weed came from? There's no way for me to know. And so what if you grew it at home? People brew their own beer don't they? Would you advocate your neighbor going to jail for 15 years because he sold the other guy down the block a case of his garage brew???

Taxing "the hell" out of it doesn't make sense to me either, pretty much for the same reasons Swish already detailed... why pay a 50% markup when I already have a guy?

You know what's funny about the drug trade? It is a PERFECT example of Capitalism at it's finest and most successful. Think about it: the ONLY regulation on narcotics is that its illegal to possess. Past that, the laws of Supply and Demand (augmented by product quality) dictate and set prices. a $20 crack rock has been a $20 crack rock for like ever! Heroin just a few years ago was a pretty expensive drug.. about $40-60 per hit. Now most of those addicts have switched over to prescription pills because they are cheaper. The net effect is that the price of heroin has plummeted to about $20 a hit.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 09:08 AM
you know how i feel about cops bro,

but honestly. I'm glad you agree. I rather you guys really put forth the effort into finding guys doing DUI's, domestic violence issues, gang violence and other stuff like that.

I know a couple cops, and i know, atleast from my experience and from who i know, you guys actually let a lot of guys with weed slide and such. because y'all already know you could be doing more important stuff with your time. and i...respect that.

wow....can't believe i said that.

anyway, yea man, since i already started, i know a lot of cool ass white cops that work here in East Cleveland. You guys are more worried about crimes that actually effect the community. I give respect when its due.
Originally Posted By: Swish
you know how i feel about cops bro,

but honestly. I'm glad you agree. I rather you guys really put forth the effort into finding guys doing DUI's, domestic violence issues, gang violence and other stuff like that.

I know a couple cops, and i know, atleast from my experience and from who i know, you guys actually let a lot of guys with weed slide and such. because y'all already know you could be doing more important stuff with your time. and i...respect that.

wow....can't believe i said that.

anyway, yea man, since i already started, i know a lot of cool ass white cops that work here in East Cleveland. You guys are more worried about crimes that actually effect the community. I give respect when its due.


I can't believe you said that either lol thumbsup Honestly if it did get legalized I wouldn't be surprised if you proposed a law saying all cops had to blaze one before hitting the streets just to chill the hell out naughtydevil lol

In all seriousness, I am glad to hear that you've been having different (and better) experiences with cops than what you grew up with.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 03:24 PM
Arch the only thing I see that I object to in your scenario is long prison terms. And it's not so much from a moral standpoint, but a financial one.

http://www.drc.ohio.gov/public/osp.htm

According to this source, the average daily cost of housing an inmate is $164.06 per day. That's 59,881.90 per year.
So let's say someone selling weed illegally gets the 5 year mandatory sentence you suggest that will cost the Ohio taxpayer $299,409.50 to implement.

So in essence, you have someone breaking a law that may cost the taxpayers a few thousand dollars in avoiding a tax, only to cost the taxpayers almost 300k for the infraction. While you may not advocate a large fine over jail time, the outcome for the taxpayer is what I find objectionable under your scenario.
Posted By: MrTed Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 03:47 PM
Personally I don't know what the big deal is. Alcohol is much worse as a stimulant that leads to violent behavior than weed. The only time I've heard of violence involving weed is when a deal went bad on the news.

In Ohio a group just got their signatures approved by the Attorney General to legalize it and allow persons over 21 to have no more than 4 plants growing at a time.

Fine by me, if I can make my own wine or brew my own beer I should be able to garden my own lettuce.

Will I end up doing it? No, I've only tried it twice and wasn't impressed at all. But so long as it's regulated as far as safety is concerned (no DWBlazed and such) I don't see the harm.

They used to tell us in grade school (late 70's) that there could be birth defects, but I don't know if that has been proven true or not. I do know it has adverse effects on memory, I paint with a guy who used the hell out of it way back when and there are times of his life he doesn't remember due to its use. Not vast periods but still.

The other concern is the 'gateway drug' thing, I don't want other drugs approved for the obvious reasons DevilDog stated. So I do worry about that.
Legalize and Tax it. All funds go to paying off the National Debt!
Posted By: MrTed Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 04:25 PM
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Legalize and Tax it. All funds go to paying off the National Debt!


That could work! The money would come in waves! Everyone would work like crazy haut to be able to sit in the couch, then after the weed wore off they'd all be back at it again just to get back to the couch to puff away!

Then we'd have a food shortage and an obesity problem due to the massive epidemic of the munchies sweeping the nation!

The far reaching benefits are too many to name!
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 04:25 PM
If a kid at 18 can decide to destroy their lungs and etc by cigarettes, or someone at 21 can destroy their liver and etc - why not allow the legal use of pot too?

The biggest issue with pot is the lack of education and facts that have coexisted with programs like DARE and other anti pot/drug programs.

Plus, using Denver as an example, it's a home run for federal and state revenue off the taxing of it. People going to smoke regardless, should the money go into the state and etc, or into the black market?
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 05:01 PM
jc

lol, the war on drugs.....

New Report Says ​DEA Agents Held Sex Parties with Prostitutes Paid for by Colombian Drug Cartels

http://www.vice.com/read/new-report-says...source=vicefbus

Drug Enforcement Administration agents like to party with the locals while working overseas, according to a report released today by the Department of Justice. The report, released by the department's inspector general, found that for years, several DEA agents stationed overseas held "sex parties" with prostitutes paid for by local drug cartels, likely in Colombia. According to the investigation, the parties were typically hosted at DEA "quarters" leased by the US government, and Colombian police officers also provided "protection for the DEA agents' weapons and property during the parties."

The revelations come as part of a wider investigation of the handling of sexual misconduct and sexual harassment in several DOJ agencies, including Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), the DEA, the FBI, and the US Marshals Service. The DOJ's inspector general began its investigation after several Secret Service members were sent home from Colombia in 2012 for alleged involvement with prostitutes in Cartagena during a presidential trip to the Summit of the Americas. After reviewing the alleged sexual misconduct of agents in Cartagena, the OIG called for a broader review of "the nature, frequency, reporting, investigation, and adjudication of allegations of sexual misconduct" across the agency.

The findings of the investigation are damning, to say the least. The Justice Department found that the DEA suffered from a "lack of coordination between the internal affairs offices," murky sexual misconduct and sexual harassment reporting policies, and "weaknesses in detecting sexually explicit text messages and images," all of which seem like fairly important components when making sure your employees aren't attending prostitute orgies paid for by Colombian drug lords.

In another instance uncovered by the report, multiple witnesses reported that a DEA assistant regional director had "solicited prostitutes at a farewell party held in [his] honor." In an interview with the DEA's Office of Professional Responsibility, the director in question claimed that the witnesses must be "100% lying," and the agency did not continue its investigation.

Even in adjudicated cases of sexual harassment, the DEA failed to charge subjects with sexual harassment, instead charging them with other, more innocuous-sounding indiscretions, like "Conduct Unbecoming" and "Failure to Follow Written Instructions." When asked by investigators why the sexual harassment offense category evenexisted, a DEA official "who is heavily involved in the discipline process responded, 'It's for show.'"

The DEA wasn't the only department with lax responses to sexual misconduct. According to the report, the ATF and the Marshal's Service also failed to report risky and inappropriate sexual behavior. Other allegations include an ATF program manager "failed to report allegations that two training instructors were having consensual sex with their students," even after discovering that the instructors had "engaged in substantially the same activities three years earlier;" and that a deputy US Marshal entered a "romantic relationship" with a fugitive's spouse for more than a year, despite requests from supervisors to break it off.

The report also claims that the DEA and FBI did not make the investigation easy for the inspector general's office, allegedly withholding information during initial interviews and "unnecessarily delaying" responses to investigators. According to the report, DEA employees "stated they were given the impression by the DEA that they were not to discuss the case with the [Office of the Inspector General] while the case remained open."

In a statement to Politico Thursday, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R) said he wanted all agents involved fired immediately, adding that "anytime you bring a foreign national into your room, you're asking for trouble." The committee is scheduled to hold a hearing on the report's findings next month.
_______________

Well.....can't beat em, join em, I suppose. SMH.
Originally Posted By: MrTed
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Legalize and Tax it. All funds go to paying off the National Debt!


That could work! The money would come in waves! Everyone would work like crazy haut to be able to sit in the couch, then after the weed wore off they'd all be back at it again just to get back to the couch to puff away!

Then we'd have a food shortage and an obesity problem due to the massive epidemic of the munchies sweeping the nation!

The far reaching benefits are too many to name!


Even you and I could buy some, just to help pay off the Debt!
We could puff but not inhale like Democrats! rofl
Posted By: ddubia Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 09:29 PM
I'm not a pot head anymore but I used to be. The thing about the conversation you and Arch were having about buying from the store vs buying cheaper on the street was missing and important element.

That is, in my day if I had the choice to save a few bucks by buying the run-of-the-mill "commercial" pot on the street, (which would be illegal) vs buying the kick-ass stuff that would be available in the stores legally I would opt for the kick-ass legal ganga in the store even if it costs considerably more.

The higher quality and legality being the deciding factors. I'd bet the majority of pot heads would think the same.

Back in the day if I had a choice of a $25 ounce of Mexican or a $40 ounce of Columbian Blond I paid the $40 every time.

There would still be an market for the illegal stuff by those who are not yet 21.

That's all I wanted to say.
j/c

If I'm not mistaken, banks don't want any part of pot selling/buying so in Colorado it's a cash only exchange. Though they raked in millions in taxes, a cash only business is ripe for fraud and tax evasion. Which I recall reading somewhere where they believe that's the case.

I know squat about the drug trade but even if they legalize the selling of pot in Ohio a la Colorado, I don't think people are going to stop growing it discretely or selling it discreetly.

The only advantage for Ohio citizens is the cost of arrests, and incarceration.

I'd rather see someone who is a threat to the community like a vandal, thief, burglar, in jail than someone who sells a weed.

They make it legal tomorrow I'll smoke the state dry! lol
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/27/15 11:58 PM
Drugs, Alcohol, anything that is mind altering should never be legalized, this world is bad enough as it is .. The mind is the devil's playground ... and when the mind is altered the devil has a field day .... JMHO superconfused
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 12:12 AM
thats odd. The pastor at the church that my grandmother goes to smoke all the time too.

He thinks weed is perfectly fine.
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 12:34 AM
Oh my, lol I would not want someone smoking pot preaching the Holy Word of God to me ... superconfused tsktsk
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 11:46 AM
Originally Posted By: ddubia
I'm not a pot head anymore but I used to be. The thing about the conversation you and Arch were having about buying from the store vs buying cheaper on the street was missing and important element.

That is, in my day if I had the choice to save a few bucks by buying the run-of-the-mill "commercial" pot on the street, (which would be illegal) vs buying the kick-ass stuff that would be available in the stores legally I would opt for the kick-ass legal ganga in the store even if it costs considerably more.

The higher quality and legality being the deciding factors. I'd bet the majority of pot heads would think the same.

Back in the day if I had a choice of a $25 ounce of Mexican or a $40 ounce of Columbian Blond I paid the $40 every time.

There would still be an market for the illegal stuff by those who are not yet 21.

That's all I wanted to say.


Ah the good old days, damn I miss them frown
Posted By: GMdawg Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 11:52 AM
I use to be a Deacon in our church. I had a key to the door and spent many nights sitting in the pews at 10, 11, 12 oclock after having smoked pot. Just me and God. I have never felt as close to God as I did during that time of my life.
Legalize all of it. The end.
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Drugs, Alcohol, anything that is mind altering should never be legalized


Sugar, caffeine, nicotine (which occurs naturally in many veggies), pepper…all mind altering.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 02:00 PM
Originally Posted By: DawgMichelle
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Drugs, Alcohol, anything that is mind altering should never be legalized


Sugar, caffeine, nicotine (which occurs naturally in many veggies), pepper…all mind altering.


We don't like facts around here. stop it.
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Drugs, Alcohol, anything that is mind altering should never be legalized, this world is bad enough as it is .. The mind is the devil's playground ... and when the mind is altered the devil has a field day .... JMHO superconfused


Mind altering? - Like teaching children to fear the invisible being in the sky so that they conform to what you say is the right way to act and live. If so then yes please stop the mind altering.

Oh and BTW, I don't believe in recreational drug use and I don't like so called legal "for profit" drugs either.
Posted By: ddubia Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 09:13 PM
Once when I was smoking pot I saw God and we had a conversation. He told me to quit smoking pot. grin
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 10:35 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Drugs, Alcohol, anything that is mind altering should never be legalized, this world is bad enough as it is .. The mind is the devil's playground ... and when the mind is altered the devil has a field day .... JMHO superconfused


Mind altering? - Like teaching children to fear the invisible being in the sky so that they conform to what you say is the right way to act and live. If so then yes please stop the mind altering.

Oh and BTW, I don't believe in recreational drug use and I don't like so called legal "for profit" drugs either.


lol Wow willynilly
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 10:36 PM
Originally Posted By: ddubia
Once when I was smoking pot I saw God and we had a conversation. He told me to quit smoking pot. grin


Did you? superconfused
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 10:47 PM
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Drugs, Alcohol, anything that is mind altering should never be legalized, this world is bad enough as it is .. The mind is the devil's playground ... and when the mind is altered the devil has a field day .... JMHO superconfused


Mind altering? - Like teaching children to fear the invisible being in the sky so that they conform to what you say is the right way to act and live. If so then yes please stop the mind altering.

Oh and BTW, I don't believe in recreational drug use and I don't like so called legal "for profit" drugs either.


lol Wow willynilly


To be fair, you set yourself up for that.

besides, didn't Jesus turn water into wine? You're saying Jesus is wrong?
Posted By: PastorMarc Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/28/15 11:04 PM
The wine Jesus made and drank was un-fermented (Grape juice) Jesus did not approve of drinking ... The bible tells us what alcohol will do to us (Proverbs 23:29-35) and that a drunkard cannot enter heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)... I know you won't quit arguing so I won't reply again because either you believe God's word or you don't (Matthew 10:34-40) thumbsup
Posted By: Squires Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 12:22 AM
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg






Oh, but it's not that easy. I understand. Potheads won't buy at the legal stores, they'll continue to buy from the cheapest source. That's why, if it were to be legal, we jack up the prison time to seriously punitive levels.

If not, and all we do is legalized pot, we'll get no tax revenue,



Colorado had almost 700 million in pot sales in 2014 and 76 million in taxes with 300 recreational pot stores open. Your theory that people will still buy from the cartels is not true.

When it was on the ballot in Colorado, I voted for it. i don't use it. If someone wants to smoke it in their home, I could care less. If someone causes an accident because they are high, then there should be a tough penalty.
Posted By: Squires Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 12:25 AM
Originally Posted By: Spergon FTWynn

Does anyone know how companies and work places in Colorado are with drug testing? Have most businesses removed marijuana from it beause it's fully legal or are they still testing?


My company doesn't do random drug testing. Legal team is still working on the wording of official company policy. From the sounds of it, policy will be they don't care if you smoke on your own time, just don't come to work high.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 03:40 PM
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
The wine Jesus made and drank was un-fermented (Grape juice) Jesus did not approve of drinking ... The bible tells us what alcohol will do to us (Proverbs 23:29-35) and that a drunkard cannot enter heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)... I know you won't quit arguing so I won't reply again because either you believe God's word or you don't (Matthew 10:34-40) thumbsup


There's a difference in being a drunkard and having a few drinks of wine.

For ANYONE who believes that drinking was not accepted, try putting grape juice in a wine sack and carry it around in the heat for a while. Guess what? It will turn rancid. Without refrigeration, you can not preserve unfermented fruit juice. Not without the preservatives used today.

NOTHING in the scriptures even suggest that it was grape juice, nothing. Juice could not have been preserved to be carried in the heat during that period of time. Common sense alone dictates that the scripture means exactly what it says. Too often people use their own belief systems to distort and confuse very obvious points in the Bible.
Posted By: DonCoyote Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 03:55 PM
Originally Posted By: Squires
Originally Posted By: archbolddawg


Oh, but it's not that easy. I understand. Potheads won't buy at the legal stores, they'll continue to buy from the cheapest source. That's why, if it were to be legal, we jack up the prison time to seriously punitive levels.


Colorado had almost 700 million in pot sales in 2014 and 76 million in taxes with 300 recreational pot stores open. Your theory that people will still buy from the cartels is not true.


"Potheads" don't typically buy at the store. Retail is for occasional smokers, tourists and activists that want to support the movement. Still plenty of tax dollars there.

Cartels? Cheapest? No way. That junk weed is not smoked in the legal states. Doesn't matter how cheap. Cartel Mexi-Weed goes Back East and to The South. Harsh growing laws are the reason for that industry. No need for it out west.

Potheads in legal states buy fresh, top-notch stuff from their friends and neighbors. We don't need a store or a cartel. Just let us do our thing!
Posted By: Cjrae Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 04:09 PM
Jut legalize it as a medicinal use for everyone. Then, when everyone has a medical marijuana card, the tax payers can pay for it for them. Solved. Smokers need not buy it, it will be provided and paid for by the tax payers like many other drugs.

Alcoholics and addicts crush their (tax payer paid ) drugs for other purposes up and snort them up their nose. This entire, system is a perpetual vicious and losing cycle.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
The wine Jesus made and drank was un-fermented (Grape juice) Jesus did not approve of drinking ... The bible tells us what alcohol will do to us (Proverbs 23:29-35) and that a drunkard cannot enter heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)... I know you won't quit arguing so I won't reply again because either you believe God's word or you don't (Matthew 10:34-40) thumbsup


There's a difference in being a drunkard and having a few drinks of wine.

For ANYONE who believes that drinking was not accepted, try putting grape juice in a wine sack and carry it around in the heat for a while. Guess what? It will turn rancid. Without refrigeration, you can not preserve unfermented fruit juice. Not without the preservatives used today.

NOTHING in the scriptures even suggest that it was grape juice, nothing. Juice could not have been preserved to be carried in the heat during that period of time. Common sense alone dictates that the scripture means exactly what it says. Too often people use their own belief systems to distort and confuse very obvious points in the Bible.


When taking an old text like the Bible, then translating it from ancient language to ancient language, then again to modern languages, then once more into our own interpretation of what it means; all while not losing nor altering in anyway the original messages it was meant to convey is extremely implausible.

Add to this the fact that humans tend to twist information to justify their own beliefs and or actions, compounded by the fact that there is a huge disconnect of time, culture, realities and technologies between the original authors and modern man; then ultimately stating that you know without a doubt what was meant by any verse or chapter is simply a farce.

So Pastor Marc, even though I support your right to religious freedom, I absolutely cringe when you post your thoughts (as fact) based solely on your modern day christian interpretation of the bible. The logic is completely ridiculous to me.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 04:35 PM
That's why my point, while not based on the Bible itself, is a common sense way of showing that grape juice simply would be impossible for people to carry on journeys to store at the time. Logic dictates it had to be wine during those times.
Posted By: DonCoyote Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 04:36 PM
Why would taxpayers have to pay for something that grows wild?

A smoker can grow his/her supply with a small yard or even a window.

we even have co-ops out here for medical patients. they can grow it together in a shared space and share the harvest, even re-sell some to cover what little costs are involved (fertilizer, lights).
Illegal drugs in this Nation, like guns in cities where they are banned, are still easily gotten by anyone who wants them. Laws make no difference.
Posted By: Cjrae Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 05:44 PM
Originally Posted By: DonCoyote
Why would taxpayers have to pay for something that grows wild?

A smoker can grow his/her supply with a small yard or even a window.

we even have co-ops out here for medical patients. they can grow it together in a shared space and share the harvest, even re-sell some to cover what little costs are involved (fertilizer, lights).


Then why are we discussing where the better market is to buy? Hops and barley grow too but we pay for them. Someone has to buy it to smoke if they don't grow it. Actually, I was comparing medical marijuana to health care and other drugs misused and paid for by tax payers.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/29/15 05:49 PM
Originally Posted By: Cjrae
Originally Posted By: DonCoyote
Why would taxpayers have to pay for something that grows wild?

A smoker can grow his/her supply with a small yard or even a window.

we even have co-ops out here for medical patients. they can grow it together in a shared space and share the harvest, even re-sell some to cover what little costs are involved (fertilizer, lights).


Then why are we discussing where the better market is to buy? Hops and barley grow too but we pay for them. Someone has to buy it to smoke if they don't grow it. Actually, I was comparing medical marijuana to health care and other drugs misused and paid for by tax payers.


you realize we pay to buy medical weed right?
Posted By: DonCoyote Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/30/15 03:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Cjrae
Actually, I was comparing medical marijuana to health care and other drugs misused and paid for by tax payers.


I understood that. We agree that taxpayers should not be paying for it.

My state has medical (and recreational) marijuana. Taxpayers aren't paying for it. Its the opposite. Weed is taxed.

I know people that could get prescriptions for Oxy and other pain killers, instead they choose cannabis. If more states allowed it, there would be less abuse of those harsh, addictive pills.
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/30/15 04:26 PM
Originally Posted By: DonCoyote
addictive pills.


Yes, people don't even realize how harsh those prescription meds (especially Oxycotin and similar pain meds) are addictive. It's dangerous, so if the same outcome could be achieved with medical pot, it's a win for the patient in my book.
Posted By: DonCoyote Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/30/15 04:26 PM
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

When taking an old text like the Bible, then translating it from ancient language to ancient language, then again to modern languages, then once more into our own interpretation of what it means; all while not losing nor altering in anyway the original messages it was meant to convey is extremely implausible.


In the absence of God, that translation is implausible.

But, he is discussing an All-Powerful God that created the universe. God can write, translate and deliver a Divine Book. God can make the grapes last 1 million years. These aren't dilemmas for a God capable of creating the universe.

I respect your beliefs, whatever they may be. I also understand and share your views about proclaiming to know these as facts. But within the theory, an accurate translation is quite plausible.
Originally Posted By: DonCoyote
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg

When taking an old text like the Bible, then translating it from ancient language to ancient language, then again to modern languages, then once more into our own interpretation of what it means; all while not losing nor altering in anyway the original messages it was meant to convey is extremely implausible.


In the absence of God, that translation is implausible.

But, he is discussing an All-Powerful God that created the universe. God can write, translate and deliver a Divine Book. God can make the grapes last 1 million years. These aren't dilemmas for a God capable of creating the universe.

I respect your beliefs, whatever they may be. I also understand and share your views about proclaiming to know these as facts. But within the theory, an accurate translation is quite plausible.


You know... you're right! After reflecting on it for about 2.67 milliseconds I decided that in theory, since we are talking about a mystical magical fairytale like omnipotent supreme being, reading the bible might actually be like having a direct connection into the mind of such a being. Although I can't see how human beings could possibly be this beings greatest creation, nor can I see why this being would feel the need to give us a book to learn about them when they could just put the knowledge in our heads to begin with... And while being just but jealous or kind and loving God (whichever mood they wish to be in), why be so mysterious about how we are to act? Why give us free will to begin with if we have to act any certain way?

I don't need answers to any of those questions because I have mine. But when we get into conversations that go in circles and never have an end, and these conversations which sound like utter nonsense are about how we should live our lives, especially when people who believe they can make sense of these circles of nonsense want to make laws that force their views on others... I have to speak up and call BS.
Posted By: DonCoyote Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/30/15 09:59 PM
Yes, I am correct. An omnipotent, supreme being could easily write a book. That's not a circle. There is nothing to debate.

You ask a valid question about free will. That one can definitely lead many debates in circles.
Originally Posted By: DonCoyote

Yes, I am correct.


Yes you are.
Posted By: PDR Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/30/15 11:01 PM
Originally Posted By: DawgMichelle
Legalize all of it. The end.


Repeated for truth.

We don't have a drug problem, we have a social problem.

If that sentence seems preposterous to you, substitute the word 'drug' with 'gun'.

If it still seems preposterous, I guess we disagree.
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: DonCoyote

Yes, I am correct.


Yes you are.


Nope. Jesus told me you are wrong.




And he's one seriously smart Mexican. tongue
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg


Nope. Jesus told me you are wrong.


I think Jesus would have a lot more to say to you than just that.
Always about religion on this board. Man. . .
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Originally Posted By: OldColdDawg


Nope. Jesus told me you are wrong.


I think Jesus would have a lot more to say to you than just that.


You apparently never read the line below that...
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/31/15 03:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Victor_Von_Doom
Always about religion on this board. Man. . .


Maybe they are talking about Jesus the gardener? wink
Posted By: ddubia Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/31/15 04:24 PM
Originally Posted By: PastorMarc
Originally Posted By: ddubia
Once when I was smoking pot I saw God and we had a conversation. He told me to quit smoking pot. grin


Did you? superconfused


Well Pastor, I wasn't smoking pot when we talked and I didn't hear his audible voice. But in our conversation I quieted myself long enough to hear the "Still, small voice" that convinced to go to rehab.

And in rehab that's where I discovered my relationship with God and we've been talking ever since. That's 1987 to present.

I'm not perfect. But I'm forgiven and feel protected through life's daily trials. I continue to listen for that still, small voice. It's never a paragraph nor even a complete sentence. That which I hear, again, not audible, is a usually simple phrase that if I don't discount it but instead consider it, it usually enlightens me.
Posted By: YtseDawg Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/31/15 07:17 PM
Originally Posted By: MrTed
In Ohio a group just got their signatures approved by the Attorney General to legalize it and allow persons over 21 to have no more than 4 plants growing at a time.


Not quite. They've been approved where now they must collect 305,000 signatures. If they do, it'll go on the ballot in November. Link Here

Personally, I hope it makes it to the ballot and passes. Hard to imagine that at this time next year it COULD be legal. But they have to get the signatures and then they have to get the votes... Almost everyone I meet thinks it should be legalized, but I think if it came down to a vote, it'd be a lot closer than that.
Posted By: Dawg_LB Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/31/15 07:30 PM
I don't think ResponsibleOhio will have any difficulty getting those signatures. I'm pushing for them, they have a strong support network.
It'll pass it's just a matter of time.
Posted By: DonCoyote Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 03/31/15 08:22 PM
Sweet! I figured Ohio would be much later in the movement, but 5 states are down already.

The legalize movement is taking a page from Koch Politics. Target a few states at a time and overwhelm them with outside money. Not a fan of the process, but it is working.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/06/15 10:56 PM
JC

Thought this was an interesting perspective piece.

I was a Republican pothead: What I learned about drug-war hypocrisy from my brush with disaster

http://www.salon.com/2015/04/06/jeb_bush..._with_disaster/

Jeb Bush, presumed Republican presidential candidate, was an enthusiastic pothead for much of his youth. This is not criticism, because many of my good friends are current or former potheads, as is a certain current president I admire. As a younger fellow, I’ve enjoyed a blunt or three, any one of which could’ve had serious repercussions on my future (more on that shortly). Athletes, religious leaders, right-wingers and lefties, the cool and nerdy alike have gotten high, even as marijuana remains an illegal drug with serious penalties in many jurisdictions. We treat this societal duplicity with a wink, chuckle, an inside joke or a bag of Cheetos, at the same time as people are being shot dead in the street and lives are irreparably ruined. If we lived in a just society (we do not), any politician or public figure who has ever put chronic to lips needs to either back complete marijuana legalization or present him or herself to the authorities for public punishment. I think we should bring back stocks and public flogging.

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Like so many tokers, I have my own story of a close call with weed. In 1994, I was a 21-year-old Coast Guard enlisted man, stationed in North Carolina as a rescue boat crewman. I hadn’t touched the stuff in over a year, because the Coast Guard had a “zero-tolerance” policy. But my wife and three-week-old son were away visiting our family back home in Nevada, and the opportunity came up. I was off duty and smoked half a bowl, and then I went home and fell asleep. Sinister, I know.

The next morning, I pulled into the parking lot of Coast Guard Station Cape Hatteras, and there was a tan van with government plates in the guest parking spot. It was the medical van from the base up the beach, which meant a drug test. It was one of the worst moments of my life. I had visions of being kicked out of the Coast Guard, perhaps a dishonorable discharge, which would be treated very similarly to a felony in many states. My life would be forever marred by a few hits of weed, and I brought it all on myself. I ran to the bathroom and drank glass after glass of water, trying to cleanse my system. Yet the panic was all for nothing. After a half hour, my boss, a crusty old chief boatswain’s mate and one of the biggest assholes I’ve met in my adult life, canceled the test on a whim.

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“We got too much to do for a piss test today,” he told the medics, and sent us all back to work. It sounds contrived, but it’s not. It was the only time I’d ever seen one of those tests canceled in my seven year Coast Guard career and constitutes the closest thing to a miracle I’ve ever witnessed. By blind, stupid luck, I was spared. I was never tempted to smoke again for the duration of my enlistment. Unlike Jeb, his brother George W., or any of the other untouchable wealthy, I had no family money or connections that would have saved me. It was one of the moments that pushed me further from the moralizing right wing and into a ten year flirtation with libertarianism.

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Marijuana legalization is an issue that has stayed with me through my political evolution from conservative to liberal. Even as a conservative, I could never understand the politics of pot. In high school, a few buddies smoked, just as did I on very rare occasions, but I never gave much thought to the social and legal repercussions until it almost cost me my military career. Like any and all war, the drug war features a parade of victims, unintended consequences and senseless tragedy.

Even though the end of the drug war is in sight, we will see many more victims before it’s over. At end of every war there’s always a last casualty. One guy or gal, a private or sergeant, who gets killed in a helicopter or shot by a clueless former enemy. It’s the worst type of senseless death—the killing of misunderstanding. That’s the moment we face at the end of this monumentally stupid, hypocritical and racist drug war. It’s all over but the crying. It might take ten more years to get this all sorted out or even another twenty, God forbid, but every incarceration, lost job or even minor inconvenience, just adds to the toll of our historic national dysfunction.

One needless marijuana murder haunts me and is a sad example of the price we’ve paid as a nation. A young college student named Trevon Cole was shot to death by an incompetent Las Vegas cop in 2010. Cole sold a dime bag to an undercover cop, who then got a warrant to bust down Cole’s door with a SWAT team in the middle of the night. The operation went wrong and that same officer shot Cole in the head after the cop’s “tactical” flashlight failed. The follow up investigation found that the officer confused Cole with some “big-time” drug dealer with a similar name. Cole was 21 with a wife who was nine months pregnant, and he’d never been arrested or in any trouble before. We tend to chalk up these tragedies as the cost of “doing business” in America, but we shouldn’t. Trevon Cole was a human being, an expectant father. And his life was stolen.

As an accident of birth, I was born white, an important difference between Cole and me. I have not mentioned his race up to now, but you knew he was black, didn’t you? Because that’s the familiar refrain in these instances. If white kids were gunned down in the same rates as black kids, the war on drugs would already be over. If Jeb Bush had to pay for his crimes in the same way that Cole did, the drug war would not have made it past the ‘70s.

People who look like Jeb and me are not murdered or sent to jail for a bit of weed. Black people smoke pot at roughly the same percentages as white people do, but African Americans are arrested and imprisoned at twice the rate of white guys. I’m now much older, balding, and (still) white. I could probably snort a line of cocaine off the hood of a cop car and not get arrested. Michelle Alexander’s “The New Jim Crow” makes a strong and infuriating case that mass incarceration has supplanted the racist injustice of Jim Crow of the south with a very similar system of mass incarceration, for which marijuana prohibition plays an outsized role. It is one more compelling, if not the most important reason, to end this national disgrace.

Aside from the obvious racial component, the war on drugs is a war on poor people. The latest example of targeting the poor is the idea of drug testing food stamp recipients. There is nothing more disgusting than targeting people who have no power and cannot fight back. No one is proposing targeting people like Jeb Bush, because he has access to every benefit and break the planet has to offer. If I were made president tomorrow, I’d immediately release from prison any person convicted of a nonviolent drug crime, even dealers. The prosecution of these people has nothing to do with crime and everything to do with the class from where they originate.

Barack Obama, whom I like in general, has been terrible on this score. He commutes and pardons less than any other president. Yet, as a kid, Obama smoked weed with Bob Marley-esque enthusiasm, all admitted to in his memoir, Dreams From My Father. Anyone who has ever smoked but still insists on “punishing” people for the same thing has surrendered any semblance of moral credibility. Obama also has a very bad habit of joking about it or moralizing. After his own youthful enthusiasm for weed, he’s lost his right to make jokes while people are killed or sent to jail. Obama only redeems himself a little bit for letting marijuana legalization move ahead in some states.

Progressives, libertarians and even some conservatives support the end of the drug war, but it is happening too slowly. People are suffering and dying, and the political class has the unmitigated gall to joke about it while fighting the inevitable. Piecing together the reports about Jeb Bush, it’s clear that I’ve never smoked as much weed as he has. I never even smoked enough to qualify as a true “weekend warrior.” Meanwhile the whole of Washington D.C. is awash in recovering pot heads and coke fiends. On top of it all, these reprobates have blocked community efforts in D.C. to enact drug reform locally. This seems to indicate that the single most important qualification for congress is to lack the fundamental humanity to do the right thing.

In a recent Vice interview, Obama asked, almost rhetorically, if we should stop at marijuana legalization. He cited the serious dangers of meth, cocaine and “hard” drugs. After legalizing weed, my answer to this is absolutely decriminalize all other drugs and move them into the realm of public health, where they have always belonged. American needs far fewer prisons, and it’s tragic that the only things we manufacture anymore in American are criminals and hypocritical politicians.
Posted By: TTTDawg Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/07/15 12:47 AM
For what it's worth............

http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2015/04/ohio_voters_favor_legalizing_m.html

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- More than eight of every 10 Ohio voters support legalization of marijuana for medical use and a majority favor legalizing it for recreational use, a Quinnipiac University Poll found.

The poll, conducted simultaneously in three presidential swing states, found that 84 percent of registered voters in Ohio said a doctor should be able to prescribe marijuana to a patient for medical uses. Fourteen percent were opposed.

Those numbers, released Monday, were similar to results found in Florida and Pennsylvania by Quinnipiac's Swing State Poll. Like Ohio, 84 percent favored legal medical use of marijuana in Florida. In Pennsylvania, 88 percent supported the idea.

But the support for legalized personal use, while still a majority, was not nearly as overwhelming.

In Ohio, 52 percent said they would support making it legal to possess small amounts of marijuana for personal use. Forty-four percent were opposed.

Several proposals are in the works to legalize marijuana in Ohio. Check here for an update on the status of those efforts.
The results are significant because Ohio could see one or more issues on the November ballot from groups seeking to legalize marijuana in the state.

One of those groups, ResponsibleOhio, has already been given clearance by the state to circulate petitions and collect signatures from registered voters to try to put its issue on the ballot.

Its measure would amend the state constitution and establish a legal marijuana industry in which Ohioans could purchase marijuana for recreational and medical uses from retail outlets licensed by the state.

Last month the Ohio Ballot Board approved language for the amendment, clearing the way for ResponsibleOhio to start gathering signatures. It started the effort the following week.

To get on the ballot, petitioners will have to collect 305,591 signatures of registered voters -- 10 percent of the vote in the 2014 gubernatorial contest -- from at least 44 of Ohio's 88 counties. In each of those 44 counties, the total gathered must amount to 5 percent of the 2014 gubernatorial vote locally.

The signatures must be gathered by July 1.

In Florida, 55 percent favored legalization for personal use. In Pennsylvania, 51 percent supported the idea.

While the Quinnipiac poll found support for legalization, that did not translate to an expectation of widespread usage.

When voters were asked if they would use it personally, only 14 percent of Ohio voters said they "definitely" or "probably would use it, while 84 percent said "definitely" or "probably" not.

The results in Florida and Pennsylvania were similar.

The polling was conducted from March 17 - 28. Quinnipiac University surveyed 1,077 Ohio voters via telephone. The margin of error in the survey is plus or minus 3 percent.

Similar numbers were surveyed in Florida and Pennsylvania. The margins of error in those states were also plus or minus 3 percent.

The same poll also released results Monday that showed U.S. Sen. Rob Portman faces a tough re-election with the challenge from former Gov. Ted Strickland, who would win if voters decided today.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/09/15 09:32 PM
jc

Kansas Attorney General: Your Vote Doesn't Matter

http://hightimes.com/read/kansas-attorney-general-your-vote-doesnt-matter

The majority of Wichita voters favor reducing penalties for first-time marijuana possession offenders, but State Attorney General Derek Schmidt doesn’t care what the voters think—and he’s making no bones about it.

On Tuesday, voters in Kansas’ largest city (population 387,000) went to the ballot box to decide whether to revise the way marijuana laws are enforced within the city limits. By a vote of 54 percent to 46 percent, residents decided in favor of a municipal initiative reducing penalties for first-time marijuana offenses (involving the possession of up to one ounce) to a civil infraction punishable by a $50 fine. The new local ordinance is a stark departure from state law, which classifies the first-time possession of even one gram of pot as a criminal misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and a $2,500 fine.

But the state’s Republican Attorney General, along with several state lawmakers, are less than thrilled about Wichita voters’ recent exercise in democracy. In fact, the AG has gone so far as to threaten to sue the city of Wichita if it dares to enact the voter-approved law. State Representative Steve Brunk has publicly called the measure “an illegal petition.”

As a result, the city is now looking to the courts to issue a declaratory judgment in regard to whether the voter-approved measure is enforceable and may legally be enacted.

“Due to the Attorney General’s opinion, the city is asking the court to tell us whether the ordinance may be enforced and/or enacted into law by the city,” council member Janet Miller said in a press release. “The City Council’s action, in placing the ordinance on the ballot, was focused on respect for Wichita residents who were concerned enough about this issue to submit a petition with 3,000 signatures. The right to petition the City Council for ordinance changes through a referendum is basic to our form of government.”

________

ahh, the gop.
Originally Posted By: Swish
jc

Kansas Attorney General: Your Vote Doesn't Matter

http://hightimes.com/read/kansas-attorney-general-your-vote-doesnt-matter

The majority of Wichita voters favor reducing penalties for first-time marijuana possession offenders, but State Attorney General Derek Schmidt doesn’t care what the voters think—and he’s making no bones about it.

On Tuesday, voters in Kansas’ largest city (population 387,000) went to the ballot box to decide whether to revise the way marijuana laws are enforced within the city limits. By a vote of 54 percent to 46 percent, residents decided in favor of a municipal initiative reducing penalties for first-time marijuana offenses (involving the possession of up to one ounce) to a civil infraction punishable by a $50 fine. The new local ordinance is a stark departure from state law, which classifies the first-time possession of even one gram of pot as a criminal misdemeanor, punishable by up to one year in jail and a $2,500 fine.

But the state’s Republican Attorney General, along with several state lawmakers, are less than thrilled about Wichita voters’ recent exercise in democracy. In fact, the AG has gone so far as to threaten to sue the city of Wichita if it dares to enact the voter-approved law. State Representative Steve Brunk has publicly called the measure “an illegal petition.”

As a result, the city is now looking to the courts to issue a declaratory judgment in regard to whether the voter-approved measure is enforceable and may legally be enacted.

“Due to the Attorney General’s opinion, the city is asking the court to tell us whether the ordinance may be enforced and/or enacted into law by the city,” council member Janet Miller said in a press release. “The City Council’s action, in placing the ordinance on the ballot, was focused on respect for Wichita residents who were concerned enough about this issue to submit a petition with 3,000 signatures. The right to petition the City Council for ordinance changes through a referendum is basic to our form of government.”

________

ahh, the gop.


This could get interesting. A Supreme Court precedent allowing City ordinances to override state laws could cause some real complications. Mayoral and City Council candidates could run based on what laws they will override! lol
Considering that a city law or ordinance can never take precedence over a state criminal law, they may have a point. A person who refuses to enforce state law could find themselves open to prosecution themselves.

Would the state prosecute a city official for blocking enforcement of a state law? Who knows? It is possible that they could react either way.

The state laws have worked because the Obama administration has said that they will not enforce existing drug laws in those states. (up to certain levels anyway) I don't know that the state has made such a declaration in this case.
Posted By: PitDAWG Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/17/15 07:04 PM
Vermont Lawmakers Threaten To Reinstate Prohibition If Pot Isn't Legalized

Vermont may well become the next state to legalize marijuana, and two state lawmakers who support legalization have a simple message for their colleagues: Give us what we want, or we'll take away your booze.

A new bill filed earlier this month by state Reps. Jean O'Sullivan and Christopher Pearson would effectively reinstate alcohol prohibition in Vermont. If passed, House Bill 502 would outlaw consumption of alcohol, with penalties mirroring those currently in place for marijuana possession. Those found with small amounts of alcohol would be subject to fines of up to $500, and anyone involved in the sale and distribution stream could face up to 30 years in prison and $1 million in penalties.

O'Sullivan herself acknowledges that even she doesn't support the substance of the bill. Rather, "the object was to basically embarrass leadership to say that we have [marijuana legalization bills] in front of us, and they're going absolutely nowhere," she told The Huffington Post.

The lawmakers hope to give momentum to legalization in Vermont by raising awareness about the broad scientific consensus that marijuana is the least dangerous recreational drug on the market. A study published in February found that pot had the lowest risk of mortality when compared with nine other commonly used drugs, including alcohol and tobacco.

"We're certainly not going to ban alcohol, but when you say you'll let a drug like that be legalized and then you have a drug like marijuana that's far safer that's still banned, it's completely ironic," O'Sullivan said.

Another bill, H.277, sponsored by Pearson and O'Sullivan and currently in committee, proposes the legal sale and regulation of marijuana in Vermont. Senate Bill 95, which would also legalize the drug, was introduced earlier this year in the legislature's upper chamber.

A Rand Corporation study released this year estimates that Vermonters spent between $125 to $225 million a year on marijuana in 2014. The report projects that tax revenue from a legal marijuana market in the state could amount to between $20 million and $70 million annually.

O'Sullivan notes that taxing marijuana would go a long way to bridge the state's massive budget deficit.

"Consider it a gauntlet thrown down," O'Sullivan said of H.277. "When you're looking at a $113 million budget deficit, it looks really bloody attractive."

Beyond the financial incentives, evidence shows that there's something to the lawmakers' argument: Not a single person has ever been killed from a marijuana overdose. By contrast, around 88,000 Americans die each year due to excessive alcohol consumption, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/16...kushpmg00000013
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Considering that a city law or ordinance can never take precedence over a state criminal law, they may have a point. A person who refuses to enforce state law could find themselves open to prosecution themselves.

Would the state prosecute a city official for blocking enforcement of a state law? Who knows? It is possible that they could react either way.

The state laws have worked because the Obama administration has said that they will not enforce existing drug laws in those states. (up to certain levels anyway) I don't know that the state has made such a declaration in this case.


I'm not sure what a person who refuses to enforce law would be prosecuted for exactly. "aid and abet" would be the closest, but typically you have to have a direct hand in the criminal action. I'm not sure simply not enforcing it would meet that threshold.

Based on the article, I don't see the City as over riding state law. Rather, it appears to me that the City is looking to create its own ordnances in regards to pot. What makes this interesting is that if I'm the cop there and I come across someone with a joint, I would be directed to charge the offender according to the city ordnance INSTEAD of charging them with the state statute.

Basically enforcement is done on behalf of the city and not the state.

I find this an interesting concept but not necessarily without precedent. I mean, the Federal gov't has laws against the possession and sale of marijuana, but most cases are prosecuted according to state laws. Why not city laws instead of state???

Also, what I find interesting is that cops are certified by the State, yet employed by the City. I'm wondering if they would threaten to revoke an officer's certification if he enforced city law over state??
Posted By: Squires Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/24/15 12:16 AM
jc

Too many high employees prompts company to leave Colorado


Yep hard to imagine that artist would work while being high...
Posted By: FloridaFan Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/24/15 04:29 PM


So get new employees who will agree not to come to work high, just like you agree not to come to work drunk. willynilly

Sounds to me like the guy needed a reason to move. smile
Posted By: Tulsa Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/24/15 06:15 PM
But what if they're high when they agree to that only to later forget about it after a burrito?
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/24/15 06:27 PM
i get more creative when fried.
Posted By: 1day Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 04/24/15 06:33 PM
Honestly, my take on it.

First and foremost, I do not do any drugs whatsoever. None zip. I do not smoke week nor do I drink that often.

I am completely behind legalizing weed. Not one person can argue that it is more dangerous than alcohol.
Originally Posted By: Swish
i get more creative when fried.



At least you think that.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 05/07/15 12:21 PM
https://www.yahoo.com/music/s/texas-top-officer-snoop-dogg-dope-smoking-cop-001018001.html

Texas' top officer: Snoop Dogg a 'dope smoking cop hater'

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Texas' chief law enforcement official called Snoop Dogg a "dope smoking cop hater" before reprimanding a state trooper who posed for a picture with the rapper, according to emails made public Wednesday.

Snoop Dogg posted a photo to Instagram with Department of Public Safety Trooper Billy Spears in March with the comment "Me n my deputy dogg." It was taken during the South by Southwest music festival, where Spears was working off-duty as extra security.

Spears is now suing DPS after being disciplined for taking a picture with a public figure who has a several convictions for drug possession.

Emails obtained by Spears' attorney through open records laws show that the incident went all the way to DPS Director Steve McCraw, who is best known for overseeing the state's expansive border security operations.

"Apparently he would rather work the convention while on a week's vacation to earn additional money rather than take an additional tour on the border," McCraw wrote. "He must not understand that he was being lampooned by a dope smoking cop hater which reflects very poorly on the department."

DPS spokesman Tom Vinger confirmed the authenticity of the email but did not comment on its content. He referred to the agency previously saying that DPS holds employees to high standards of conduct and judgment.

The emails include a DPS supervisor explaining that Spears and other troopers have routinely taken pictures with other celebrities at SXSW. He mentions actor Robert Duvall, former NBA star Shaquille O'Neal and musicians Cee Lo Green and Rob Zombie.

Spears is seeking unspecified damages in a Travis County court. He claims his discipline was retaliation for filing a complaint several weeks earlier against a superior.

__________________________

cops are literally doing this to themselves. We need more images of cops willing to take pictures with the community, and Snoop is a huge public figure.

you can't think like this and expect people to respect or trust you.
Originally Posted By: 1day
Honestly, my take on it.

First and foremost, I do not do any drugs whatsoever. None zip. I do not smoke week nor do I drink that often.

I am completely behind legalizing weed. Not one person can argue that it is more dangerous than alcohol.


I'm in the same boat. I've never had a sip of alcohol, a puff of a cigarette, or consumption of any other drug. But, I support legalizing marijuana. Anybody who acts like it's more harmful than alcohol or supports alcohol being legal and weed illegal is either a hypocrite or doesn't fully understand the effects of marijuana. Legalize weed, tax it, and move on.
Posted By: Psydeffect Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 05/10/15 04:02 AM
Marijuana made me stupid, gave me low self esteem/depression and I've never felt better about life since I quit smoking it.

With that said I have no problem with it, it never made me steal to get it or anything like that.
Posted By: Swish Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 05/10/15 03:42 PM
Originally Posted By: Psydeffect
Marijuana made me stupid, gave me low self esteem/depression and I've never felt better about life since I quit smoking it.

With that said I have no problem with it, it never made me steal to get it or anything like that.


sorry that the MJ experience didn't work for you bro. glad you quit and got it together.
Posted By: WooferDawg Re: Legalization of Weed and other drugs. - 05/10/15 08:40 PM
I am not so much for legalization as decriminalizing the stuff.

Fines and rehab are ok with me. Jail and the felon label are not.
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