It seems like every mock has all the top OL prospects going to different teams and in a different order.
Rank your Top 5 OL prospects in this thread.
I think that all of these OL prospects could be day #1 starters in the NFL. My list is below.
My list is based on how I think each player could have an immediate impact next year. While players like Wirfs and Becton may have the most potential, they also seem to be more project type players in year #1 or #2.
1. Jedrick Wills Jr. 2. Andrew Thomas 3. Tristan Wirfs 4. Josh Jones 5. Mekhi Becton
I've only had time to look at the big four that close.
But i follow your lead, except Becton is above Jacobs.
Becton is the least polished of the bunch but probably has the most potential. The quickness on someone his size is pretty incredible. I just wonder why a guy, who played as much college ball as him, is so unpolished.
Therefore, i'm also 1) Wills (safest bet) 2) Thomas (safe bet), then Wirfs and Becton (not sure who i have over who there)
If Wills or Thomas is there, and we don't take them, i'll probably be pretty dissapointed.
Although, i'll get it together quickly (as i always do). Much better to be a positive Browns fan than negative
Although, i'll get it together quickly (as i always do). Much better to be a positive Browns fan than negative
I know this will sound snarky, but I promise that it is not intended that way.
I think being a realistic Brown's fan is preferable to a positive or negative Brown's fan.
Fair enough, everyone has the right to root for the team however they want. And we both have been on here long enough to not question each other's fandom
You do it your way, i'll do it mine. Whatever keeps us coming back after an 0-16 season, right?
1. Wirfs - I think he would make an elite RT or OG. 2. Thomas - I see him as a very good LT, not quite Joe T's level but a top 7 guy in the league for sure. 3. Wills - A guy I think who will be a very good RT, not quite sure about him as a LT though. 4. Becton - Has a shot to be a very good LT but I don't see his floor as being as high as that of Thomas's. 5. Jones - I think he can be a good LT but not on Thomas or Becton's level.
A few guys I like who aren't likely to go in the 1st rnd:
1. Wirfs - I think he would make an elite RT or OG. 2. Thomas - I see him as a very good LT, not quite Joe T's level but a top 7 guy in the league for sure. 3. Wills - A guy I think who will be a very good RT, not quite sure about him as a LT though. 4. Becton - Has a shot to be a very good LT but I don't see his floor as being as high as that of Thomas's. 5. Jones - I think he can be a good LT but not on Thomas or Becton's level.
A few guys I like who aren't likely to go in the 1st rnd:
RT/OG Robert Hunt - Louisiana-Lafayette
RT Lucas Niang - TCU
OG Shane Lemieux - Oregon
Solid post.
I have been doing a bit of research recently.
Right now, I really like Thomas. I think he competes really well. Has good counters to moves. Powerful hands. Nice wide base. Good recovery skills. I think he leans a bit too much, but that can be coached out of him.
I'm still early in the process, but this guy is the one guy who is really catching my eye.
2020 NFL Draft: Andrew Thomas is the best all-around tackle prospect
By Eric Eager Feb 25, 2020
It’s NFL Combine week! As PFF descends on Indianapolis, it’s good to shed light on what we already know about some of the top prospects — it will help us put into context what a great week would do to sharpen our projections of the players moving forward.
Last week, I looked at do-everything Clemson defender Isaiah Simmons and Washington State quarterback Anthony Gordon, using our college-to-pro simulation of performance during a player’s first five seasons in the NFL. Such simulations use our play-by-play college and pro grades, adjust them for context and fold in athletic data like age, size and measurements to be entered at this week’s combine (and in the coming months’ pro days). Athleticism measures are imputed using a k-nearest neighbors approach until they are (if ever) known.
This week, we’re going to look at a player regarded by our draft experts Austin Gayle and Mike Renner as the best offensive tackle prospect: Andrew Thomas of Georgia. While Georgia’s offense struggled quite a bit in 2019, Thomas did not, earning over a fifth of a win above average, the fifth-best mark among tackles in college football. A starter since his true freshman year at Georgia, Thomas allowed only nine total pressures during his third and final season with the Bulldogs.
How Thomas Projects as a Pass Protector
When projecting Thomas to the NFL, the first thing we’ll look at is pass blocking (obviously), where he is a top-three prospect in terms of win rate and pressure rate allowed — in a cluster with fellow first-round prospect Tristan Wirfs and top-100 prospect Jack Driscoll of Auburn. His projected win rate as a pass protector is below the average of current NFL players, and his projected pressure rate allowed is also below average:
Andrew Thomas’ projected win rate (left) and pressure rate allowed (right) in the context-free environment with median projected combine performance relative to height and weight.
These projections are context-free and don’t include any combine or pro-day data. In that setting, Thomas’ comps are Russell Okung, Dion Dawkins, Morgan Moses and Jawaan Taylor. If Thomas tests as an above-average athlete with respect to pass blocking, his comps become much better (Laremy Tunsil, David Bakhtiari, Cordy Glenn, Kelvin Beachum).
Andrew Thomas’ projected win rate (left) and pressure rate allowed (right) in the context-free environment with an above-average projected combine performance relative to height and weight.
Thus, the team that drafts Thomas is going to, on average, get a good pass-protecting tackle. As my colleague Timo Riski wrote about earlier, it might take time for this to develop. But assuming that needs have been met at quarterback, receiver and coverage positions on the other side of the ball, Thomas projects as a good component to a passing game.
How Thomas Projects as a Run Blocker
While running the football is not as important as passing, being a liability in the run game is certainly worse than not being one. Luckily for his future team, Thomas is not a liability in the run game, projecting with a higher win rate than the average tackle while not losing in the run game much more than the NFL average. Thomas’ projected, context-free win rate is second in his class to Matt Hennessy of Temple, and his projected loss rate the fourth best. Such a projection is pretty stable with respect to scheme used and, of course, gets better if his combine/pro-day performance is better than expectation:
Conclusion
Andrew Thomas is the best all-around tackle prospect in this draft, projecting near the top of the class as a pass protector and a run blocker. While there are other prospects that project (slightly) higher than him in one facet or the other, no one blends the two better than the three-year starter out of Georgia. This is consistent with what our draft analysts believe after poring through the tape, which strengthens the conclusions of this purely data-driven projection.
While NFL teams have viewed tackle as one of the more valuable positions in the NFL, we've found that elite play at the position is less valuable than poor play is detrimental. Thus there is a risk that slow development at the position might hurt a team more than elite play later in a draft pick’s career will help it.
That said, pass protection has been on the downswing league-wide for some time now. If Thomas can buck that trend for an offensive-line-needy team, especially in the middle of the first round (rather than at the top), the pick will be viewed favorably for years to come.
I get where you are coming from w/the ZBS thing. And I agree it is important because we don't want to put a mauler in the ZBS.
However, Haslam changes coaching staffs constantly. I think it might be best to draft the guy who is your top-rated player rather than just best in scheme. Who knows, next year we could be back to Man blocking.
I get where you are coming from w/the ZBS thing. And I agree it is important because we don't want to put a mauler in the ZBS.
However, Haslam changes coaching staffs constantly. I think it might be best to draft the guy who is your top-rated player rather than just best in scheme. Who knows, next year we could be back to Man blocking.
There is certainly a lot of truth in that statement.
We still must stay focused on what our BPA is.
And honestly I think that all of these guys I listed could play for other schemes too.
Thanks. I actually have liked what I have seen in run blocking. I do think he lunges a bit too much at times. The head too far out in front of his thighs. I think that can be corrected.
Love what I am seeing w/his punch, his wide stance, his recovery moves, ability to counter moves, how he battles on every play, his power, etc.
I haven't watched all the games yet, but the couple I did......he was impressive.
I will say that he might not seem as dynamic as a couple of others, but overall.........I think this dude will be a plug in and play starter for at least a decade. I see very little bust potential.
I will say that he might not seem as dynamic as a couple of others, but overall.........I think this dude will be a plug in and play starter for at least a decade. I see very little bust potential.
I agree. But also try to get some time in watching Jedrick Wills. I'm telling you. When it comes to technique, he's undoubtably the best in the class. Maybe not the most physically imposing, but the guy works his tail off out there (and does a great job).
To me, safest selection (followed by Thomas). As i've made clear on here, those are my top two. Everyone else is a bit behind them
I know some folks think he might struggle switching from RT to LT, but i say nonsense. He's got the best footwork of the bunch. He'd make the transition, no problem. Plug-And-Play LT, starter day 1, who barring some freak injury is a damn good career LT in this league
Andrew Thomas, a four-star recruit coming out of Atlanta’s Pace Academy, narrowed down his 29 offers to Notre Dame, Clemson and Georgia before committing to the Bulldogs in July 2016. Per Jeff Sentellof DawgNation, Andrew and his dad, Andre Thomas, decided UGA was the best fit for him a month prior to announcing his decision to go to Athens. “We didn’t establish a second team for Andrew,” Andre said, per Sentell. “There wasn’t another school which finished right behind. There was just Georgia.” Thomas earned a 68.4 overall grade, 76.7 PFF pass-blocking grade and a 63.8 PFF run-defense grade across 917 offensive snaps at right tackle as a true freshman at Georgia. And his production only got better from there. The 6-foot -5, 320-pounder recorded an 80.6 overall grade in his first year at left tackle in 2018 and a career-high 92.4 overall grade at the same position in 2019. He also earned an 89.0 PFF pass-blocking grade and a 91.3 PFF run-blocking grade as a true junior this past season. His grading profile is up there with the best in this year’s offensive tackle class
I see that he is a bit short and light for a LT. I see that he has great feet. Very quick. I like that. Very good hips. He bends well and can rotate well. That's important as a pass blocking LT. Like Thomas, he recovers well and plays mean. On the negative side, he overextends at times. Sometimes gets beat to the inside. He's a bit shorter than ideal for a LT.
I have to watch more game tape of him. Still in the process.
Andrew Thomas, a four-star recruit coming out of Atlanta’s Pace Academy, narrowed down his 29 offers to Notre Dame, Clemson and Georgia before committing to the Bulldogs in July 2016. Per Jeff Sentellof DawgNation, Andrew and his dad, Andre Thomas, decided UGA was the best fit for him a month prior to announcing his decision to go to Athens. “We didn’t establish a second team for Andrew,” Andre said, per Sentell. “There wasn’t another school which finished right behind. There was just Georgia.” Thomas earned a 68.4 overall grade, 76.7 PFF pass-blocking grade and a 63.8 PFF run-defense grade across 917 offensive snaps at right tackle as a true freshman at Georgia. And his production only got better from there. The 6-foot -5, 320-pounder recorded an 80.6 overall grade in his first year at left tackle in 2018 and a career-high 92.4 overall grade at the same position in 2019. He also earned an 89.0 PFF pass-blocking grade and a 91.3 PFF run-blocking grade as a true junior this past season. His grading profile is up there with the best in this year’s offensive tackle class
I remember sending you a PM asking your opinion of Joe Thomas before the 2007 draft. Man, were you ever right on that call and spot on in your analysis!
I see that he is a bit short and light for a LT. I see that he has great feet. Very quick. I like that. Very good hips. He bends well and can rotate well. That's important as a pass blocking LT. Like Thomas, he recovers well and plays mean. On the negative side, he overextends at times. Sometimes gets beat to the inside. He's a bit shorter than ideal for a LT.
I have to watch more game tape of him. Still in the process.
Wills is only 1 inch shorter than Thomas, Wirfs, Jones and Jackson and he played Tagovailoa‘s blind side.
Not really interested in arguing. I don't know enough about any of them to get into that. Just going off of what I have watched and read. And that isn't all that much.
I am hearing good things about Matt Peart from UConn.
The biggest concern is strength at the point of attack, but hear that is because he started playing the position at 285# but has steadily bulked up to 318 and that this was not an issue his senior year but the criticism from prior years has stuck with him.
In his player profile on PFF they mention that he has gotten a lot stronger then when he started as a freshman at UConn but they say he still needs to get stronger if he wants to be a viable starter at the next level, they also mention that he needs to clean up his pass protection. He gets his base to wide at times and has a habit of waist bending at times.
Not really interested in arguing. I don't know enough about any of them to get into that. Just going off of what I have watched and read. And that isn't all that much.
??? arguing...the guy is stating a fact how is that arguing...Oh you mean difference of opinion to what you state as fact...lol Come on man!
I like the way you presented this. Would those 3rd rounders have to drop to be attractive (and as always is the thinking realistic or merely wishing?), or do you see them there pretty much from the start? How far down your list are you, i.e., which numbers?
I think these tackle/OL picks are going to impact some boards this year.
Here's a twist for folks that mostly fits here, but I suppose might be its own thread....
Say Simmons is there at #10 and we take him.
Who are your Top LT prospects that figure to be there between picks, say, #25 and #45? I give that range allowing for a trade up, but recognizing that we likely won't trade up TOO high.
Problem with that is that by the time we pick again there is a big drop off and as we all know LT is a Highly Skill set position some say next to only QB sloppy 2nds just is not the way to go. This is one of the best LT drafts in a long time. Best we get one while we can!
But in answer to your question probably Cleveland from Boise State is the closest thing to a LT skill set left.
I would be happy if we traded back into the first round to pick up Jones or Jackson.
I don't think Ezra Cleveland is worth trading up for out of that group.
Random question. Does anyone know what Austin Corbett's PFF ranking was in college before we drafted him? I'm wondering how often high PFF rankings translate to the NFL, that might be something worth digging into.
Ranking the interior OL prospects for the 2018 NFL Draft
By Michael Renner Apr 23, 2018
It’s been three years since an interior offensive lineman was taken in the top 10 of the draft, but there’s a 99.9 percent chance that changes this year. Notre Dame guard Quenton Nelson leads a strong and deep interior offensive line class that could see multiple first-round selections.
Version 2 of the 2018 NFL Draft Guide is here! For PFF Edge & Elite subscribers, a comprehensive guide featuring player profiles of signature stats, grades and exclusive PFF content including position by position rankings. Find out more information here and join PFF now!
[Editor's note: These rankings were originally posted on February 27, edited on April 9 following the 2018 NFL Scouting Combine and various pro day workouts, these rankings have evolved one final time on April 23 as we are just days away from the 2018 NFL Draft.]
1. Quenton Nelson, Notre Dame – Guard
Nelson is the cleanest offensive line prospect in our four years of grading every snap of every game at the FBS level. His combination of flawless technique, athleticism and strength is beyond rare. You'll hear me throw around the term ‘can’t miss’ almost never. Nelson is can’t miss.
2. Frank Ragnow, Arkansas – Center
Ragnow doesn’t have the rare physical traits that Nelson possesses, but he’s been arguably as dominant when healthy over the past couple seasons. He’s been PFF’s top-graded center in back-to-back seasons despite being only limited to 415 snaps this past year. In 2,603 collegiate snaps, Ragnow did not allow a single sack.
3. Isaiah Wynn, Georgia – Guard
A tackle at Georgia, Wynn’s height and length projects best inside at the next level. Wynn will give you déjà vu at times with how consistent he is technically. He allowed all of five pressures this past season, and only 26 in his 2,609 collegiate snaps.
4. Will Hernandez, UTEP – Guard
Hernandez may be limited to a straight-forward gap/inside zone scheme, but he should be a dominant run-blocker if he is put in one. The UTEP guard possesses an almost comically-thick build that makes him a people mover in the run game. He was PFF’s highest-graded guard in 2016.
5. Wyatt Teller, Virginia Tech – Guard
Teller possesses about as much nastiness as any offensive linemen in this draft class when he wants to show it. He had some of the most dominant blocks we've seen this past season and that explosiveness will translate well to the NFL. Teller is a four-year starter with impressive grades each season.
6. Braden Smith, Auburn – Guard
Smith plays angry snap after snap, consistently playing to the whistle. He’s not the most natural of athletes, but his power in a phone booth is special. He finished 2017 as PFF’s third-highest graded guard.
7. James Daniels, Iowa – Center
Daniels finished this past season as PFF’s third-highest graded center and improved every year of his career. He rarely ‘wow’s,' but he plays as under control as any center prospect in the draft. 8. Austin Corbett, Nevada – Center
The Nevada left tackle stepped onto the field as a freshman in 2014 and was already one of the better pass protecting left tackles in the nation. That season, he allowed all of 17 total pressures and has only gotten better since. Corbett is far more technically sound than most small school tackle prospects and could legitimately start in the NFL as a rookie. He likely profiles best to the interior at the next level.
9. Will Clapp, L SU – Center
Clapp has multiple years grading very well in the SEC at both center and guard. That’s an impressive accomplishment in and of itself. Add in some of the best hands in this draft class, and Clapp is ready to start sooner rather than later.
10. Billy Price, Ohio State – Center
Price is one of the rare offensive line prospects who can claim starting experience at all three interior positions. Offensive line coaches will love that, as well as the fact that he plays every snap like he’s out for blood. Price is as aggressive an offensive line prospect as there is in this draft.
11. Mason Cole, Michigan – Center
Cole played both tackle and center at Michigan, but never quite mastered either. He’ll be on the interior in the NFL, where that cross-training could be seen as a positive. Cole also hails from a creative, pro-style run scheme at Michigan that should translate well at the next level.
12. Colby Gossett, Appalachian State – Guard
Gossett is a perfect fit for an outside zone scheme as he consistently makes difficult reach blocks. He must improve in pass protection after posting a 76.0 grade in that department last season, but he has four strong years of solid, 80.0-plus overall production.
13. Jeremiah Kolone, San Jose State – Guard
Kolone led the draft class with a pass-blocking efficiency of 99.7 last season, allowing only one pressure on 244 attempts. He has three strong years of grading, including a 90.7 overall mark in 2016.
14. Dejon Allen, Hawaii – Guard
Allen has been one of the top non-Power 5 tackles in the country for the past three seasons and has the requisite athleticism to kick in to guard at the next level.
15. Kyle Bosch, West Virginia – Guard
Bosch finished with three straight years of solid production including an 87.1 grade in 2016 and an 86.9 mark last season. He allowed only 23 pressures over the last three years.
16. Bradley Bozeman, Alabama – Center
Bozeman was very consistent over the course of his career at Alabama. His lack of strength and athleticism will be an issue heading into the league.
17. Brian Allen, Michigan State – Center
Allen hails from a pro-style running game at Michigan State that projects well to the NFL. Unfortunately, Allen is undersized for the position and power will give him issues at the next level.
18. Sam Jones, Arizona State – Guard
Jones is nothing special athletically, but still got the job done more often than not for the Sun Devils with back-to-back years of solid grading. 19. Antonyo Woods, FAU – Center
Woods had strong finish to his FAU career, grading at 86.4 overall. He can make the necessary blocks required in a zone scheme and he finished 11th in the draft class with a pass-blocking efficiency of 98.7 last season.
Teller played LG for the Bills and played RG for us after the halfway point last year. I think we will be pleased with him this year...especially with Conklin to his right.
JMHO, I want us to trade up to get the Left Tackle we want....I'm afraid of the "left overs"....ID your guy and get him, even if you have to pay a big price.....GO Browns!!!
The only player I can see this regime trading up to get would be Tristan Wirfs. I think it would be in that 6-8 range if we did.
Given all the depth at the position, it really doesn't make sense to trade up unless somehow have to trade up to ensure that we get one of the top 4 guys.
Problem with that is that by the time we pick again there is a big drop off and as we all know LT is a Highly Skill set position some say next to only QB sloppy 2nds just is not the way to go. This is one of the best LT drafts in a long time. Best we get one while we can!
But in answer to your question probably Cleveland from Boise State is the closest thing to a LT skill set left.
Cleveland looks fine to me.
We have done nothing for one of the worst D's in the league. If Simmons or Brown is there, we better take them.
The only player I can see this regime trading up to get would be Tristan Wirfs. I think it would be in that 6-8 range if we did.
Given all the depth at the position, it really doesn't make sense to trade up unless somehow have to trade up to ensure that we get one of the top 4 guys.
To me, if you trade up, you won't be there to see who falls a bit.
I don't think it makes sense in this draft. Unless we're targeting Chase Young (for whatever reason), or absolutely have to have the LB, I think we're picking plenty high to land a stud (at a position of need, at that) at 10.
The only guy worth trading up for in this draft [I'm leaving Burrow out] is Tua.
While I think it is tantalizing to consider him, I am pretty sure Miami is going to try to trade w/Detroit to get him. Maybe even make a move Washington, but Detroit seems much more likely. And Miami can offer a lot more than the Browns can.
At most, I;d give our 1st 3rd round pick (since the Duke trade afforded us another one) to trade up with Carolina, but the only way I see them going for that is if Simmons is off the board.
That would get us ahead of Arizona and Jax who are both likely looking at Tackle positions. At least, I assume Jax is as Cam Robinson has played poorly in his two healthy years and missed another with injury. Three years in and he is still struggling.
Ryan Wilson - CBS Sports.com: 1st round - DT Javon Kinlaw (South Carolina), OT Ezra Cleveland (Boise State); 3rd round - S Jeremy Chinn (Southern Illinois)
Of Note: In this scenario, the Browns would trade a second- and third-round pick to move back into the first round and take Cleveland with the No. 32 pick.
Looks like the bus to Cleveland is not so out of the question...
If Simmons or someone else that isn't supposed to does fall to 10, I would love if we grabbed him and then traded back up into the 1st to get our tackle. We need to come away with a blue-chip LT w/o reaching.
In theory that sounds wonderful. But I think if you look back at previous drafts, you'll find that there are very few "blue chip LT's" in any one class.
There is certainly a lot of OL talent in this coming draft, but not so much if you break it down to projected LT's. Your odds of getting a "blue chip LT" late first or early second round is greatly reduced.
The more I learn about these guys the more I think Thomas is a good fit for us and Willis might not be given that he has only played the right side.
Wirfs doesn't seem like he is making it to us in any of the mocks.
Becton is a wildcard, I really don't know how I feel about him at all just yet. Taking him seems risky to me given that we really just need stability on the left side.
I'd also be happy if Simmons falls to us and we find a way to trade up in the late first round to pick up Josh Jones or Austin Jackson.
If we take Jones, Jackson or Cleveland at 10 I would be upset.
Ezra Cleveland in the second round is ok with me as well.
Given that the scheme we will be running works best with the more athletic and technical OL, I would definitely agree that Thomas is the best choice.
I don't know much about the others, but guys that aren't as athletic or as technically sound will not be nearly as good for us even if they are super duper strong or bigger or have longer arms. They have to be able to move well, use great technique, and work with good leverage.
A CBS mock draft has the Browns taking Javon Kinlaw at 10 and then trading back into the first round at 32 to take Ezra Cleveland. They then mock Austin Jackson at 36 to Carolina.
What's dumb IMO, about this scenario, is that they have us passing on Derrick Brown to take Kinlaw. They mock Brown at 14.
I prefer to look at Big Boards [provided the analyst] has one. They make so much more sense to me than some dumb-ass mock, especially given how trades can change things dramatically.
All the mocks have us taking a LT at 10. However, I think the front office really likes Ezra Cleveland, and the 10 spot is too early to take him.
I think the current plan is to wait to see if Simmons somehow falls to 10. If by some miracle he is, they take him. If not, we know the analytical approach favors trading down.
They trade back, picking up some draft capital for next year, and target Kenneth Murray. This might serve a dual purpose, as it takes away a prospect Baltimore is probably targeting as well. Then, they target Cleveland in round 2.
The Browns have shown heavy interest in Cleveland. It just seems to me that they are setting up a plan for a draft where they don't take a tackle at 10, and they target Cleveland in round 2.
I think they would definitely take Simmons if he is there at 10, and if not, they try to get another defensive player later in the 1st round and pick up some draft capital, which we know that this analytical front office values highly.
Don't really have any evidence (nobody does). Like I said, this is just reading between the lines and what I think will happen.
Becton also fits in that category of Athleltic...especially if we are going to run a lot he can be a beast at LT and then mostly play action will give him a step on the Defender cause of the hesitation.
I see him possibly struggling a bit in his Pass Pro on definite passing downs or with us trailing by more than 2 scores in the 4th quarter. Hopefully our Defense can keep that to low percentage. But I see a tremendous upside if he is the studious type that wants to be great...not like Robinson.
But again I see him as a beast as do I see Conklin in the Run game. Just need that RG I guess Tetter is the best choice right now. Until we draft one.
I think on my list of 4 I have him as #4 on that list of preference.
But he still is worthy of the #10 spot and as noted I think he will struggle in that Pass Pro (technique) the key for me is how willing is he to be great and work hard on that technique or will he be one of those lazy types. I don't know his reputation from college coaches on his work ethics and such. But that would be key. If he works hard he can be one of the best of the bunch just possibly not year one of his career but he will be better by a long shot to Robinson.
I would hope after taking our LT prospect at overall#10 we would take a very good Safety or LB in the 2nd round as one most definitely will be there. I'm hoping McKinney from Alabama.
But its the 3rd round that I think is where we would end up taking our RG prospect.
I that mock draft thingy a guy that keeps coming up available and best value is Robert Hunt.
Hunt was a four-year starter for the Ragin' Cajuns after a strong high school career at Burkeville, Texas. He started all 13 games at left guard as a redshirt freshman, and then split time between left guard (nine starts) and left tackle (two starts) the following season. Hunt moved to right tackle for all 14 games in 2018, and Sun Belt coaches considered his play good enough to vote him second-team all-conference. He only started the first seven games of his senior season due to a groin injury but still was named first-team All-SBC for his play at right tackle.
I see him moving over to RG from Right Tackle I think he's a very good prospect and pretty strong for that RG position. He might not start right away but would be good for an OG/RT replacement due to injury and might end up starting at RG if Teller does not improve to the NFL level as a starter.
So what happens if we get to #10 and Becton,Thomas and Wirfs are all gone.
Do we take Wills at 10? If we do take him, how would we shuffle the line?
If all those guys are gone, then someone that should've gone higher has probably dropped. If it's a non-QB, then it's no worries, IMO. If it's a QB then we might get a sweet deal on a trade down (but I'm not liking trade downs in this draft).
Ryan Wilson - CBS Sports.com: 1st round - DT Javon Kinlaw (South Carolina), OT Ezra Cleveland (Boise State); 3rd round - S Jeremy Chinn (Southern Illinois)
Of Note: In this scenario, the Browns would trade a second- and third-round pick to move back into the first round and take Cleveland with the No. 32 pick.
Looks like the bus to Cleveland is not so out of the question...
See above top 5
I would be pretty happy with that to be honest. Kinlaw is a really stout player at DT. Good against the run and can push the pocket in the QB's face.
Pressure up the middle Aaron Donald style is gold, especially if you have a guy like Myles Garrett who gets the QB thinking about stepping up to avoid that rush.
Deacon Jones got the sacks, but it was Merlin Olsen and Rosie Greer crushing the middle that made that happen.
QB's have ways to deal with edge pressure if the guards and center can form a wall in front of them. Crush the middle and the QB can't do much but crumple to the ground. Kinlaw would be a good pick.
Some of you need to watch his tape. He's a really good player.
I would but it all depends on how we evaluate Wills for all we know he could be our #1 and its a blessing he drops to us. Its not often that there are 4 worthy LT prospects in the draft. 3-4 of them going in the top 10
Since 1999 it came close in 2013 Eric Fisher (1), Luke Joeckel (2), Lane Johnson (4) and then DJ Fluker (11).
In 2002 we had 3 in Mike Williams (4), Bryant McKinnie (7) and Levi Jones (10) but never 4 in the top 10.
I don't think in the 4 there aren't Big time reaches involved. A case can be made Positive and Negative for each of the 4. But usually its an easy evaluation. The big time mistakes have been in guys who just didnt want to work hard I think over the years they became lazy in their work ethic and was allowed to do so by their coaches.
Robinson, McKinnie both come to mind.
But all 4 are solid in their play and those who don't have the technique have some amazing athletic abilities!
I think times have changed in regards to offensive linemen being "safe picks" in the draft. I have been trying to communicate that the differences in the college game to the pro game have made evaluating offensive linemen harder than it used to be. I just did a quick search on it and I found this article right away.
Quote:
Offensive Linemen Are No Longer "Safe Picks"
By: Joe Marino July 17th, 2019 The Draft Network
NFL offenses have never been more prolific than they are today. But despite scoreboards lighting up on Sundays and rule changes that are heavily slanted in favor of offenses, the performance of offensive line play is lacking.
There’s no denying that football looks different today than it did even a decade ago. The evolution of spread offenses has taken over the college football landscape, and while the NFL is adopting many of those concepts, the technical and physical side of offensive line play in the NFL is still worlds apart from college. Because of this, evaluating collegiate offensive linemen for the NFL has never been more difficult. For years, offensive linemen were often considered “safe picks” in the NFL Draft, but they are becoming increasingly risky.
At ACC Kickoff, I caught up with former NFL Pro Bowl offensive lineman Eric Wood, a former first-round draft pick who recently retired after nine seasons with the Buffalo Bills.
“In general, across the nation, offensive line play is down,” Wood said. “College spread offenses can hurt an offensive linemen’s draft prospects because they are doing things so differently from the NFL game. It becomes hard to compare apples to apples and determine how good a guy truly is going to be.”
Perhaps this is why the NFL Draft has experienced a 17 percent decrease in first-round offensive linemen when comparing the last five years to the five before that. That decrease climbs to a 37.5 percent dip when considering just offensive tackles over the same span.
One of the biggest adjustments for college blockers that come from a spread system is transitioning from run blocking in a two-point to rolling their hips into contact from a three-point stance. While the emphasis in college is often to establish body positioning to create running lanes, the NFL requires offensive linemen to move opponents against their will to create space in the run game. Wood spoke to the challenges of that transition:
“It can be really different,” Wood shared. “It’s tough on some guys while others develop the muscle memory more quickly. You have a long time to train between that last college game and the NFL. Even in college, you can be working your hand in the dirt if you're not at a college that necessarily puts their hand in the ground. But like anything - quarterbacks that have to move under center in the NFL that have been exclusively in the shotgun - it’s something you have to learn and it’s tough to identify who will pick things up faster than others.”
When discussing offensive linemen projecting to the NFL, it often requires blockers to switch sides of the formation. Many times, the position the blockers are accustomed to from college is already solidified on their new NFL team and the only course to seeing the field is flipping sides. Wood was quick to point out the work and challenges that goes into that transition.
“You have to practice it, honestly. It can be very tough to go from the left side to the right side or vice versa. If you are a one side guard or tackle, you’re training only certain muscle patterns going in a certain direction, and going the other way is very difficult.”
Some prospects are not only tasked with changing the side of the formation they are comfortable playing on, but completely switching positions. While players can fill certain roles at the college level, their skill set translates differently to the next level and it requires yet another adjustment. Speaking from experience, Wood was quick to point out how difficult it can be making transitions to a new position in the NFL.
“I played 49 straight games in college at center,” said Wood. “To go to the Bills and immediately switch to guard, I did have a summer to prepare so I spent time creating a lot of new muscle memory over that summer. I worked my tail off to try and learn the little nuances, but with each position comes a lot of little learned trades that can make someone great at a particular position. I felt like I knew enough of those at center going into my NFL career. Even in that first year and a half before I moved back to center, I always felt a bit more comfortable snapping the football.”
For many young offensive linemen in the NFL, the challenges compound. It’s no small task making the leap from college to the NFL, but doing so while learning new techniques, changing positions and/or flipping sides of the formation creates a demanding scenario.
While the progression of football has created high-flying offenses, it has never been more taxing for offensive linemen entering the league.
I think Thomas is the best LT candidate in this draft, bar none.
We read articles of people making claims that Wirfs can play either OT position. Most had him penciled in G or RT until his combine numbers. Combine numbers fool a lot of people. The film is the measuring stick.
I don't care which order they come off the board. I don't really care what the talking heads say, if he's sitting there at #10 and we pass on him, it's going to be a huge mistake.
After reading about Ezra's injury, I went back to the 2018 games (only 2, but...)
He looked better than Wirfs and maybe even Thomas that year. Had to look up the analytic guys just to compare (it makes me feel better about my opinion sometimes).
2018: Ezra Cleveland: 85.5 (PFF)
Andrew Thomas: 80.6. Though I still think Thomas' tape was a little better (competition level and all that)
Tristan Wirfs: 74.8. Again, to be fare he was better than everyone except Wills the 2nd half of 2019.
Sooo...my final listing:
1) Jedrick Wills (RT) 2) Tristan Wirfs (RT or RG) 3) Andrew Thomas (LT)
That's my "Top 10 possible" guys
4) Josh Jones (LT) 5) Mekhi Becton (mountain of madness)
End of top 25
6) Cesar Ruiz (G/C) 7) Ezra Cleveland
End of 1st round possible guys
8) Austin Jackson (LT)
End of top 40
I had also completely forgot that Muti missed massive amounts of time 2 years in a row, so injuries keep him out of my top 50. It happens.
There are LOTs of good tackles available this year. Looks like we'll take one at 10 for sure. If our staff thinks the drop off is too much I want us to trade UP to get the one we want.
I'm surprised the Boise State guy,Cleveland (got to have him for name only) wasn't mentioned yet Div 3 guy was....your thoughts about tackle only....Please....GO Browns!!!!
Andrew Thomas would be my pick he has played LT at a Big time program ...
I like Thomas too. Isn't Wills strictly a RT?
Yes. He has never played any position other than right tackle. I would assume that takes him off the board as we wouldn't want he or Jack Conklin to make the position change.
My rankings (that are almost definitely wrong and that no one should pay attention to):
1. Wirfs 2. Jones 3. Thomas 4. Becton 5. Cleveland
I reposted your initial link. Duh. not sure how recent this is as Cleveland isn't mentioned and I think he is frequently considered a late 1st round pick at the moment.
If we don't sign a Vet to fill the slot - I'd love to land Thomas, Wirfs or Jones in that order. Thomas #1 simply because of who he's done it against and for how long ...
I read something earlier on the OT prospects and Thomas has some attributes that are nearly unteachable (same with Wirfs ... followed by Becton). If we get one of those 3 I’m happy
Yes. He has never played any position other than right tackle. I would assume that takes him off the board as we wouldn't want he or Jack Conklin to make the position change.
He played RT because Tua is a lefty. Many college left tackles switch to RT in the pros.
Why can't Wills switch to LT?
Wills will be a LT in the NFL. He's got great feet and is a very technically sound player. That tells me that he has the coordination to switch sides.
Conklin played LT at Michigan (if i remember correctly). He switched to RT and was a probowler in his first season. Wills is a better prospect than Conklin was, he just happened to be protecting the blindside of a lefty QB.
Being a right tackle should not be looked at as a negative. It’s just a different position than left tackle. We already have a right tackle. Switching Wills’ position would just add more of an unknown to his projection. He’s a great prospect, I would just shy away from him because of the position switch.
Many college left tackles switch to RT in the pros.
????? Really? Usually it's college LT's that aren't projected to LT in the NFL. Even some very good college LT's can't cut it at the position in the NFL.
My hope is that other team needs may dictate Thomas falls to us. But from a personal standpoint I think Thomas is the best LT in this draft so I think he's gone early.
I have to admit his weight worries me, especially once he's making NFL 1st round pick money. I also don't think the quality of Louisville's opponents was quite on a par with Thomas and Wills playing an SEC schedule, or Wirf's Big 10 schedule.
Many college left tackles switch to RT in the pros.
????? Really? Usually it's college LT's that aren't projected to LT in the NFL. Even some very good college LT's can't cut it at the position in the NFL.
They switch to RT because most NFL QBs are right handed, and they aren't good enough to play LT in the NFL.
Wills is the opposite. Wills has the athleticism and technique to play LT in the NFL. He plays RT because his quarterback is left handed, so RT protects the blindside.
My point is, had Tua been a righty, odds are that Wills would have played Left Tackle. When you watch the film on the guy, it's clear. He's very athletic. He has the feet to be a Left Tackle. And he's a very good football player. He's polished. He's a very good pass blocker.
Most Left Tackles move to Right Tackle in the NFL because they simply aren't athletic enough to play the position in the NFL. This is not the case with Wills at all.
When we drafted Mitchell Schwartz, did we say "Oh man, i dunno. I'm not sure if Mitchell Schwartz can be a RT. There's a position change there". Of course we didn't. We said, "Mitchell Schwartz would make a great RT, i hope the Browns draft him." And low and behold, they did.
No one is going to be drafting Wills to play RT. That's not what he's being scouted as. He's being scouted as a LT. Sure, it involves a switch in technique, but no different than the switch that a LT has to make when they switch to RT
My hope is that other team needs may dictate Thomas falls to us. But from a personal standpoint I think Thomas is the best LT in this draft so I think he's gone early.
I agree, and I think Wirfs too.
Its a pretty safe bet that Zona takes a LT.
The Giants are hard to figure if they will pass on a better talent for an OT.
Then there is the Jets who might be looking to get ahead of us for another OT.
And its not like the Jags couldn't use one too, although many have them going defense.
You are projecting that with no evidence he can actually play LT. Using the #10 draft pick on a player who has never played at the position you are drafting him for is too much of a gamble for such an investment.
I have to admit his weight worries me, especially once he's making NFL 1st round pick money. I also don't think the quality of Louisville's opponents was quite on a par with Thomas and Wills playing an SEC schedule, or Wirf's Big 10 schedule.
I agree, and also add that I don't think that the zone blocking scheme is his best fit.
I literally cannot think of a single one in the last twenty years.
There's been guys drafted for LT that failed to adapt that were then tried at RT, but I've never heard of a single case of one going the other direction.
The only reason a college team's best OT would be the right tackle is when they have a lefty QB, to protect his blind side in pass pro. Beyond Stabler, Zorn, Tebow, and the guy from USC who's name escapes me, I can't think of them. In other words, I think its a pretty unique situation. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, just that we don't have any (or enough) examples to provide a measuring stick. I'm confident that if our scouts and other big brains, like Callahan, think Wills has the skillset to play LT, then he can.
Could you please site examples where a college RT has moved to the LT position in the NFL and was drafted to play that position?
Pit, there's not many Left Handed QBs. I tried to find notable RT's and it was very difficult on Google. So i googled left handed QBs. I just saw some stat that said that only 1% of College QBs were lefty in 2017. Notable Lefty QBs i found were, Vick, Mark Brunnell, Steve Young, and Boomer Esiason. For whatever reason Munoz and Boselli both lined up on the left side.
All i'm saying is, when we have to select a RT, we don't start poo pooing College LTs because they have to make a position switch. We look at the skills of the LT, and see how they translate to RT.
Jedrick Wills played RT because his QB was a lefty and he was a very good passblocker. Nick Saban even said it. They never switched him because Tua was lefty.
Wills has all the traits we're looking for in a LT, it just happens that he never got his chance because it didn't make any sense for him to play on that side. There's no reason to think that he can't make the same transition that any LT makes to RT in the NFL.
All it's going to take is some work to change up his stance, etc. Wills has a great work ethic. He's coordinated. He's very athletic. He fits this scheme.
I just think it's ridiculous that folks are going to put players who are nowhere near as good at him above him just because he played on the other side of the line (because his QB was one of the very rare players who happen to be left handed).
I literally cannot think of a single one in the last twenty years.
There's been guys drafted for LT that failed to adapt that were then tried at RT, but I've never heard of a single case of one going the other direction.
Off the top of my head, Winston Justice. I believe he was drafted to be LT. He was Matt Leinart's RT. Like Leinart, he was not a good NFL Player
As far as the tackles go, I have continued reading and watching what I can find. Thomas is still my number 1 guy and I think he could be available at 10.
I will say I am not really all that educated on the group.
Wills was a freshman RT out of Kentucky I believe in 2017. He stayed there as a sophomore across from Jonah in Tua's 1st season of 2018 and, of course last year.
Vers what you possibly are failing to see is the utilization of the college game influencing a lot of NFL offenses as we evolve. So that they (LT evaluations) become relevant again. I do agree it has taken a turn in being safe picks. I think because of the dire need of a LT that in the past 10 years there has been many REACH picks at that position because of the rep of being a safe pick but what they didn't see is you cannot put lipstick on a pig....
Many are making it into a risk pick cause they are going way too early as much is the case for QBs. You got to take them early cause they go fast.
The need is great for a LT and it still is a vital pick.
As mentioned I see all 4 making it. The only way they will not make it will be by Attitude, laziness or the thought process that they don't have to work hard at their trade. I don't know any of these 4 Prospects well enough to comment for certainty on their Willingness to become GREAT! which is the key with these 4.
Best LT class I have seen maybe EVER for the NFL draft.
We must take advantage of it cause we will not see a LT prospect in the future. Our days of picking #1, 2 and 3 are done jmho
I will state this one last time and be done with it.
What you are suggesting is we take the #10 overall pick in the draft and dedicate it to drafting a player who will need to change positions. To the degree that you don't have a single example of it ever having been done before. The risk/reward factor is far too great for the #10 overall draft pick. Experiments such as that are for later in the draft, not at #10.
As for those who think there are four LT psospects who will make it.
Is that enough? Is just "making it" good enough for the #10 pick? To me you should get an impact player at a position with the #10 pick in the draft.
You aren't going to find FOUR impact LT's in this draft who are worthy of the #10 pick. Just ending up with a "serviceable" player at the LT position with the #10 pick on the draft will certainly mean we will have passed up much better players who were available at the pick.
I think if your evaluation of a player is that he can be one of the very best at his position - you can draft him at 10. I'm not saying that's the case, but players get draft for what they have potential to become ... if that potential is extremely high then they get taken much earlier than otherwise considered.
Potential means project. When drafting based on potential your odds of success go down. There are reasons to draft such players, but not at #10. There are far too many great players on the board at #10 to pass them up for potential.
That goes against anything even close to BPA. I understand that teams don't always draft strictly according to BPA. But if they are good at drafting, they don't stray far from it unless it's to draft a QB.
And I won't say never when it comes to Simmons, but the odds are slim. I understand the talking heads are sometimes correct. But more times than not they looking for clicks and hits on their web sites at this late stage of the game.
I mostly agree with you, but there are definitely cases where you draft that player at 10, or even higher. QB is the most common reason.
Again, I don't disagree with you. You should absolutely come away with a starter (if not day 1 starter) when you draft in the top 10, but drafts, players, and positions are all different. It's not black and white.
I will state this one last time and be done with it.
And i'm saying, that even with a position change to LT, Jedrick Wills is the best LT prospect in the draft.
Right off the bat, two of the players have bigger question marks. We don't know if Wirfs can even play LT. There's analysts that think he's best suited to play guard to start his career. Becton, i have huge questions with him. He's started that many years, and he's still so raw? Reminds me of Greg Robinson.
Andrew Thomas is a somewhat safe bet. But he's still not as refined as Wills.
I'll take Wills over the other three. Today and every day. Wills and Thomas, the top two. And to me, Wills is a better prospect than Thomas. And they're both clearly better prospects than Wirfs and Becton.
That's how i have those guys ranked for the LT position and "I will state this one last time and be done with it."
There is a guy I want to talk a little bit about. Trey Adams. At one point he was considered a sure fire top 10 pick then the injuries came. Now he is being projected as late as round 4 or 5.
I am not suggesting targeting him instead of an LT at #10 but rather in addition too. I think he would make a great swing tackle And who knows, if he shows he can stay healthy, he might even win the LT job at some point.
Is that enough? Is just "making it" good enough for the #10 pick?
Its a position that the skill set needed to "MAKE IT" is rare. You a darn right "making it" is good enough. LT is the 2nd rarest position out there. That is why it is valuable. Just like a Franchise QB is valuable only cause its skill sets are rare. So there aren't enough to go around.
Same with LTs and "MAKING IT" is being miss led by you to mean Serviceable that is not the same thing. Making it means a big thing. As very few prospects "MAKE IT"
Potential means project. When drafting based on potential your odds of success go down.
No, they do not mean the same thing, Pit. A 'project' has significant flaws in his game that must be corrected/developed before he is NFL-ready. 'Potential' is an evaluation that the player is expected to be able to compete but has not as yet reached his ceiling. My words hopefully convey what I am trying to say. All players are drafted based on potential...
When asking a player to start at a position he has never played, you are banking on the potential that he can switch positions without the evidence to show he can do so. You're "projecting" he can play a new position. Thus, project.
There are 32 starting LT's in the NFL. So I'm still not quite clear what your definition of "making it" is. Top 10, top 15, top 20? And while I certainly understand what you mean by the needed skill set being rare, expecting someone to play at the opposite tackle position isn't a given.
Not saying it can't be done, but I asked before how many college players that played RT had been successful NFL LT's. I also understand that when you ave a left handed QB that the RT protects their blind side.
Bur years of muscle memory and reflex moving one way certainly doesn't guarantee that you can get a player to reverse that with the same success.
At the point you have to need a player to actually switch positions from one side to the other, I think the risk factor goes up to the point that it most certainly changes their draft status.
I guess I'll go back to your point about how important the QB position is and how rare the skill set it. Yet I've never seen a draft where there are four QB's that are all ranked as high as the #10 pick.
I just don't think we'll ever agree on this one and that's okay. We are both high on drafting OL and understand the importance of the LT position.
Where we disagree is that I don't feel when building a draft board, that at the #10 draft pick you have four guys at ANY one position where you can just take the leftovers and play "insert name here".
Switching tackle from one side to the other is a completely different animal. Your sets are opposite, which feet are where is opposite. Where each hand has to go reflexively is now opposite.
It isn't a switch that can be thrown. Yeah, most can *probably* do it, given enough time, but it will take a year of reps** for the flip to take root and the player still may never be as good on the new side as they were at their native spot.
** yes, they can be passable in a few weeks, but it won't be to the point where they aren't thinking about it for MONTHS. Each time they go to the line, they will have to think about which foot goes where, which side do I set my arms to, where are my hands going to hit the guy coming at me, etc...?
My thoughts on switching from RT to LT that might help us relate is this. Think about if you moved to London. They drive on the opposite aide of the rode.
While you might be a great driver here in America, once you start driving on the other side of the rode it gets really weird really quickly.
After a little bit if time, you sort of figure it out. But it remains uncomfortable making turns into the "wrong" aide of the road which is now the correct side.
My first duty station in the Navy was in a British colony where we drove on the wrong side of the road. And, yes, it was weird and eventually became normal, but one time when I was back home on leave after having been there for about 19 months, I borrowed my Dad's car and went to McDonald's for some food. As I turned left out of the lot onto the left side of the road, I was wondering why that idiot's headlights were coming right at me. I had been all good the entire trip up to that point, but as soon as I was comfortable enough to slip into autopilot, I reverted to the wrong thing for the situation.
When asking a player to start at a position he has never played, you are banking on the potential that he can switch positions without the evidence to show he can do so. You're "projecting" he can play a new position. Thus, project.
You are so splitting hairs on the pronunciation/meaning of the word. PRO-ject or pro-JECT...
I keep reading about what a great class of OT's this is. I think it's good due to the sheer number of them.
However, I don't think any of these guys are great. There isn't a Joe Thomas, an Anthony Munoz, a Jonathan Ogden, etc in my opinion.
I think there are quite a few guys who could be good, but I think all have question marks.
My top guy is Andrew Thomas. Even he has some concerns. I think his hips are a little stiff. Not bad, but not what I would like for them to be. His biggest weakness is that his footwork can get out of whack. He doesn't always maintain good balance. One foot will get too far out in front of the other. He does have good recovery footwork though.
The other guys have more concerns in my opinion. I like Thomas the best because I think he is the one guy of all them that almost certainly won't bust [unless he gets into drugs or other off-the-field nonsense.] Even if he doesn't end up great, he almost certainly will be a decent LT for a decade or more.
I can't say that about the other guys. They could be very good, but all have some issues that might make them busts. I am not saying they will be. I don't even think they will be busts, but there are some red flags that would make me hesitant about drafting any of them other than Thomas at 10.
(The OBR's Fred Greetham will feature several of the players that could be targets of the Browns in the days leading up to the upcoming NFL Draft).
Most NFL Draft observers have had the Browns penciled in for an offensive tackle since before the NFL Combine in Indianapolis in February began and before free agency began in mid-March.
Fast forward to less than three weeks from the draft and that's still the consensus.
The Browns filled a major hole by agreeing to terms with Jack Conklin as an unrestricted free agent on the first day teams were allowed to talk with free agents.
However, the Browns still have a major void at tackle, particularly left tackle. Conklin is presumed to be the new right tackle and currently, the other tackles on the roster are Chris Hubbard and Kendall Lamm. Conklin was signed to replace Hubbard, who has deficiencies in his game, but re-structured his contract and is still with the Browns, likely as a top backup at guard or tackle.
Since future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas retired in 2017, the Browns have tried Shon Coleman, Joel Bitonio, Desmond Harrison and Greg Robinson at left tackle.
We started the series with Iowa's Tristan Wirfs , followed by Georgia's Andrew-Thomas, Alabama's Jedrick Wills which can be found here:
Could Tristan Wirfs Be At The Top Of The Browns Wish List?
Could Browns Find Joe Thomas' Replacement With Another Thomas?
Wills Says Switching From Right To Left Tackle Isn't A Problem
Now, we'll take a look at another one of the top tackles in this year's NFL Draft, Mekhi Becton from Louisville.
At first glance at Becton's size -- 6-7, 364 lbs. -- many NFL observers would say that Becton. wouldn't fit the description of playing tackle in the wide zone scheme.
But, not so fast.
Becton has surprised those who didn't think he could play in the wide zone.
"Yeah, they don’t expect a person like me to move that well," Becton said at the NFL Combine. "So, I think I surprised a lot of people."
Becton likes using his size to his advantage.
"I love being the biggest offensive lineman," he said. "I love intimidating guys. I was always the biggest on my team.
Here is how NFL.com described Becton, whom they compared to Bryant McKinnie:
"Enormous frame complemented by surprisingly nimble feet and functional athleticism to handle either tackle spot. Becton's combination of movement and force should allow him to fit easily into all running schemes, but he needs to play with better patience in order to control and redirect all that mass into centered blocks in both run and pass. His technique and set-up are better than expected in pass pro, while his size and length allow him to recover and redirect both inside and outside rushes.
"With all really big prospects, weight and quickness will be concerns, but Becton's areas of concern are correctable or manageable, if he's disciplined enough to prioritize them. He has the potential to be a good starter on either side, but the weight creates an obvious low-floor scenario."
NFL ✔ @NFL He's 6'7" and 364 LBs... And he ran a 5.1 40-yard dash.@UofLFootball OL Mekhi Becton crushed it last night. 😤
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Becton ran a 5.1, 40-yard dash. ProFootballFocus.com ranked Becton fifth among tackles and 47th overall in this class. The Browns are big proponents of analytics and the analytics-driven website has the following tackles listed ahead of Becton: Georgia’s Thomas (No. 8 overall), Alabama’s Jedrick Wills (No. 9), Iowa’s Wirfs (No. 11) and Houston’s Josh Jones (No. 14).
All five of these tackles said they interviewed with the Browns at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis.
Becton was asked what the Browns talked with him about.
"My technique," he said. "Really my technique the whole time. They told me what I was doing wrong. They showed my good plays, my bad plays. What I did wrong on my bad plays, what I did good on the bad plays."
Becton said he played in the wide zone at Louisville and has no problem in it.
"It didn’t take me a while at all (to learn it)," he said at the Combine. "I’m a quick learner. But once Coach (offensive coordinator Dwayne) Ledford taught me my footwork, it snapped right there."
Becton said he takes pride in the way he plays the zone scheme.
"I take a whole lot of pride in it," he said. "I love outside zone and inside zone. It’s just fun running a man out of the play taking him where I want him to go."
One of Becton's highlight reel plays was against Syracuse when he drove an opponent to the Louisville sidelines with several shoves, exuding his power.
"It’s just fun seeing a man on the ground every play and then going to jump on him," he said. "That’s what I love about the game."
NFL.com's Daniel Jeremiah has Becton ranked as the top tackle in the NFL Draft and the seventh-best player. Becton said he wants to be the first tackle taken.
"Yes, sir! It’s real important," he said. "Because I put the work in. I didn’t put the work in for nothing."
Becton feels he can be the franchise left tackle for an NFL team.
"I feel I’m the most dominant tackle in this draft," he said. "You wouldn’t go wrong picking me. The tape shows it. It shows that I finish almost every play. It’s as simple as that."
Becton said he really doesn't care what type of offense that he's in--and he's very confident in his abilities.
"Nah, just run behind me," he said. "It don’t really matter what we run as long as you’re running behind me. Open a hole and run behind me. I can get you a touchdown pretty much if you run behind me."
"Nah, just run behind me," he said. "It don’t really matter what we run as long as you’re running behind me. Open a hole and run behind me. I can get you a touchdown pretty much if you run behind me."
I keep reading about what a great class of OT's this is. I think it's good due to the sheer number of them.
However, I don't think any of these guys are great. There isn't a Joe Thomas, an Anthony Munoz, a Jonathan Ogden, etc in my opinion.
I think there are quite a few guys who could be good, but I think all have question marks.
My top guy is Andrew Thomas. Even he has some concerns. I think his hips are a little stiff. Not bad, but not what I would like for them to be. His biggest weakness is that his footwork can get out of whack. He doesn't always maintain good balance. One foot will get too far out in front of the other. He does have good recovery footwork though.
The other guys have more concerns in my opinion. I like Thomas the best because I think he is the one guy of all them that almost certainly won't bust [unless he gets into drugs or other off-the-field nonsense.] Even if he doesn't end up great, he almost certainly will be a decent LT for a decade or more.
I can't say that about the other guys. They could be very good, but all have some issues that might make them busts. I am not saying they will be. I don't even think they will be busts, but there are some red flags that would make me hesitant about drafting any of them other than Thomas at 10.
JMO.
I generally tend to agree ... "great" in terms of numbers.
That is to say we have many who meet the threshold, but how many will push the threshold is still a question at this point. Generational talent? Probably not.
Personally I like Wirfs over Thomas, who could both be off the board at pick #10.
I think that both can push the threshold of an average OT ... (albeit w/Wirfs it might be RT/RG).
My only real issue with Thomas is that he does seem to have a balance issue, finishing many plays on the turf, but it should be said that he usually still fulfills his initial responsibility.
With that said, Thomas's pass protection sets, combined with his long reach and heavy hands I think will allow him to have successful reps early on.
With Wills I see a potential all pro RT, but as a LT with his build ... that's projecting out of the box.
The rest (4-6) are in another tier imo.
--our dilemma is...
With the Jets and probably TB looking to add OTs' we can't afford to trade down very far if our # 1 guy (Whosoever) is not on the board when we pick.
If we are sitting at 10 with Wills (t1), Jones, and Cleveland (t2's) and we haven't a trade down option we like...
Who should we take?
And I have already mentioned that Becton is imo a bad fit for our zone-scheme...
I think that Jones is a guy who meets the threshold of what you look for at LT, but athletically he just meets the threshold which keeps him out of the top tier.
Ezra Cleveland I think is a guy who athletically pushes the threshold, but due to the level of his compitition, (of no fault of his own,) will keep him out of the top tier, but the word is that this young man really impressed with his mental acumen on the white board and in interviews at the combine.
Don't be too surprised if we see him come off the Draft board in the top 15 picks.
I haven't looked at Jones and barely researched Cleveland, so I won't comment on those parts of your post...........but, damn dawg.................that was an awesome post! I am very impressed!!! That's some damn good football talk right there!
RT to LT...don't get me wrong its an adjustment that one would have to work hard to get "COMFORTABLE" with it. But if one has the "Skill Set" they got the skill set and that transition from Right side to Left is a bit easier for those who have that skill set.
This OH NO he played RT his entire career so for that reason he is a negative for the LT spot? I don't think so. They either have the skill set or they don't...And they DO. Skill set is proper knee bend quick feet and the understanding of keeping a good base in all blocking (no reaching). You got all that and still work hard at becoming better at all that the transition to the opposite side is not a difficult thing. If the kid did not have the skill set and technique and was just big and fast then I would say yes he could possibly never become a good/great LT.
Btw of course there are 32 starting LTs stop with the semantics There are Bums who can Play the position, Robinson for example and then there are legitimate starting Left Tackles like Taylor Lewan. Out of the 32 there are probably 40% legitimate LTs out there the rest or just manning the job until a better one comes along. Serviceable and I'm not saying the end result (after 3 seasons) will be just a serviceable LT. All 4 and in other draft classes possibly a couple more would be taken in the first round as reaches. Like Jones or Cleveland.
But these 4 can become legitimate starting LTs and I keep saying the key factor is the willingness to work hard at it. All 4 + Work Hard = legit LT. If any become lazy or don't think they have to work hard at their trade then they will become stop gap disappointments Usually from guys who have never had to work hard cause they were always bigger and stronger than anyone else. But don't really LOVE THE GAME...just play for the college and now for the MONEY...most of those guys don't get too far from that 2nd contract and are out of football but did get their one pay day.
So our investigation in this ODD circumstance of a year is very important for the decision we have to make.
I think we have somewhat of a disconnect here. I'm not trying to say that one of these guys can't make the transition. It's quite possible they can. But it's certainly not a given. Let's take Wills for example.
The young man is bright as well as talented. Those are points we certainly agree on. But when building a draft board, every question about a player has an impact on their draft status. And while Saban has a glowing revue on the guy, both he and Wills admit there is going to be a learning curve.
Quote:
But, Saban cautioned, it will be up to Wills to adapt to the left side.
“I don’t have a crystal ball, so I think it’s going to be just the challenge for him, making those adaptations from playing in a right-hand stance to playing in a left-hand stance,'' Saban said. "Is he capable of doing it? Absolutely. What his mindset is for doing it, I really can’t speak to that, so I can’t unequivocally answer that question.’’
Wills, who surrendered only one sack in his 29 collegiate starts at right tackle, acknowledges that switching sides will be like driving from the right side of the car at first.
“I took minimal (left tackle) reps at Alabama,’’ he said at the NFL Scouting Combine in February. “Leading up to this predraft process, I’m trying to do both because that’s something teams are asking about. I’m just trying to have that versatility. It’s something that’s new. ... It’s something I’m trying to get comfortable with.’’
The hardest part, he said, is the muscle memory, which dates all the way to his right tackle days as a prep star in Lexington, Kentucky, where he led his team to the Class 6A State Championship as a junior and senior.
“Being on the right side for so long, it’s something that feels a little bit different,’’ he said. “You switch your feet up, using your right hand, your punch time is going to be different. It’s small things.’’
But he fancies himself a quick study. Wills is one of four offensive tackles the Browns are considering with the No. 10 pick. The others are Georgia’s Andrew Thomas, Louisville’s Mekhi Becton and Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs.
I would NEVER consider Becton at #10. So no, we're never going to agree on this one. When you have to depend on a player to switch positions, that impacts his draft stock. Nobody looks at four players at the same position and has them all graded equally. Especially when two of them don't even play the position you're drafting them for.
What you are suggesting would mean throwing the entire BPA side of the draft out the window based strictly on need. While you may not see it that way, it's just like saying if any of four QB's are leftover at the #10 pick, take the leftover. That's not how any of this is supposed to work.
Perhaps Berry is being intentionally vague or throwing up a smokescreen. More revealing, he said the OLine is a priority every year...
That's what i'm thinking. I've said that i don't think the switch is that big of a deal. Guys switch from left to right all the time.
But, it's two weeks from the draft. He wants to make it clear that all his options are open (whether this is true or false). So while i like this report/conference call, because Wills is my top guy, i don't think we can put too much stock into it.
I'm not really here to argue. I'm here to educate. I have a thread on OL play in the PFF. I can talk about the differences between LT and RT there and/or here. I don't want to get into who is the best LT debate, though. I think that topic is too subjective.
Perhaps Berry is being intentionally vague or throwing up a smokescreen. More revealing, he said the OLine is a priority every year...
That's what i'm thinking. I've said that i don't think the switch is that big of a deal. Guys switch from left to right all the time.
But, it's two weeks from the draft. He wants to make it clear that all his options are open (whether this is true or false). So while i like this report/conference call, because Wills is my top guy, i don't think we can put too much stock into it.
Kinda to your point...
But if anyone has a subscription to the Athletic, I'd like to know what former offensive lineman Ross Tucker is referencing here in his article.
It's titled There is no longer a distinction between left tackles and right tackles
and it begins with the following:
How do you know someone doesn’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the NFL these days?
When they talk about the difference between left tackles and right tackles or describe an offensive lineman as a “right tackle only,” that’s how.
The truth is, anybody who has been paying close attention to the league the last few years realizes (or at least should) that there is no longer a distinction between the two positions on the edges of a team’s offensive line. If your team’s front office hasn’t figured that out yet, and there are still a few I’m not convinced have, you’ve got major problems.
That’s why I’m not surprised the Raiders are lining up at mandatory minicamp this week with their marquee free agent signing, Trent Brown, who played left tackle with the Patriots, at right tackle. Or that the Eagles drafted Washington State offensive tackle Andre Dillard in the first round to be the heir apparent to longtime...
I will try and go into more detail in the OL thread in the PFF, but a quick answer is that a lot of guys [such as Conklin, Bitonio, etc who played LT in college just don't have the footwork to play LT in the pros.
Teams are mostly right handed. That means the TE lines up on the right side and provides help to the RT. The LT typically doesn't have that support. Also, teams run the ball to the strong side a lot due to the extra blocker.
If you look up Conklin's PFF grades, you will see he rated higher in run blocking than pass blocking. That is due to his strength while his footwork is lacking in terms of being an elite pass blocker.
I tried to hit on attributes in the OL thread. Take a look at them and it might make sense. I say this because I think you are an honest poster and want to learn. You can even ask me more questions in that thread, because this one will probably take a turn for the worse.
I think it goes one layer deeper. I think it depends on why you think so few guys transition from RT to LT, and so many go from LT to RT (when jumping to the NFL).
That little factoid (so many going from LT to RT, but 'nobody' going from RT to LT) kinda floats to the top in this discussion.
Is it a skills issue? Guys usually don't have the feet or athleticism for NFL LT, but they do for RT, so they switch.
Or is it a technique issue? LT and RT technique is so different, that once you're locked in it's very difficult to switch.
For me, I think it's much more logical that it's the skills explanation. That would mean that even if a guy, for whatever reason, was playing RT, but had the skills of a LT, then it's fine to draft him at LT.
I will try and go into more detail in the OL thread in the PFF, but a quick answer is that a lot of guys [such as Conklin, Bitonio, etc who played LT in college just don't have the footwork to play LT in the pros.
Teams are mostly right handed. That means the TE lines up on the right side and provides help to the RT. The LT typically doesn't have that support. Also, teams run the ball to the strong side a lot due to the extra blocker.
If you look up Conklin's PFF grades, you will see he rated higher in run blocking than pass blocking. That is due to his strength while his footwork is lacking in terms of being an elite pass blocker.
I tried to hit on attributes in the OL thread. Take a look at them and it might make sense. I say this because I think you are an honest poster and want to learn. You can even ask me more questions in that thread, because this one will probably take a turn for the worse.
I totally get that. At LT, the blindside blocker, usually facing the best DE, you have to have very good footwork. That's why it's an exclusive position. Because you have to be a big man with quick feet. Except, and my point has always been, Wills HAS the footwork to play LT. He's more than athletically capable.
He's making a switch in position, and people say, "The technique is different". But guys have to switch their technique when going from left to right. So what's the big deal about going right to left? Is there any difference in the degree of difficulty (technique-wise) going from one side to the other, and not the other way around. Not what's physically required of you because you are in charge of the QB's blindside
I think it goes one layer deeper. I think it depends on why you think so few guys transition from RT to LT, and so many go from LT to RT (when jumping to the NFL).
That little factoid (so many going from LT to RT, but 'nobody' going from RT to LT) kinda floats to the top in this discussion.
Is it a skills issue? Guys usually don't have the feet or athleticism for NFL LT, but they do for RT, so they switch.
Or is it a technique issue? LT and RT technique is so different, that once you're locked in it's very difficult to switch.
For me, I think it's much more logical that it's the skills explanation. That would mean that even if a guy, for whatever reason, was playing RT, but had the skills of a LT, then it's fine to draft him at LT.
It's because, generally, there's no freakin lefty college QBs. For some reason, it's the opposite of baseball. The amount of QBs who are lefty in college is less on percentage than that of the general population.
There's 32 starting QBs in the NFL. Are any lefty besides Kyler Murray?
I'm just talking about the dumb comments from Berry [his might be intentionally deceiving] and Pluto.
I will say that playing on an island is an entirely different thing than playing w/a big TE beside you.
I'm not trying to have my mind changed. Just asking a serious question.
You said you coached football or scouted it at some point. My life has taken me different paths. I spend my time typing on the board and cheering on the television.
So i don't know the exact nuiances, technique-wise, as to why it would be any harder to switch from left to right, than it would right to left. Is there anything extra that he would have to learn, technique-wise than Conklin had to learn? He's gotta get used to playing on an island. I get that.
You could read the Mary Kay article that Super started a new thread on. Saban and Wills spoke to it.
Most guys switch from LT to RT because their feet and agility are not good enough for the NFL. I am not debating if Wills has those talents or not.
I do think that muscle memory is very important and that playing LT requires more athleticism than playing RT. The gap has narrowed, but it's still there due to formations and personnel packages. I don't know if you golf or not, but how hard is it to change your swing in the middle of a round?
I didn't think of the 'playing on an island part'. That's a good point. I'm not sure if that gets lumped in the "skills needed" or the "technique difference" columns (or both).
The point of my earlier post was to explore the possibility that the overwhelming majority of guys that played RT and didn't transition to LT was because the just didn't have the skills for LT. If there was a guy that was the exception to the rule, and did have the skills, then he should be a LT candidate, no?
Yes, absolutely. If they have the skills and athleticism to do it, then it is just a matter of building the muscle memory with thousands and thousands of reps practicing drops and sets so that the hands automatically go where they need to go, so that your stance and first kick-step are automatic, etc..
I'm not really here to argue. I'm here to educate. I have a thread on OL play in the PFF. I can talk about the differences between LT and RT there and/or here. I don't want to get into who is the best LT debate, though. I think that topic is too subjective.
Not trying to start a fight, but the fact that there aren't many left handed QBs may skew the numbers. Starting at RT and moving to LT is a fairly common progression in college. It's what Thomas did at Georgia. Wills started at RT, but when Bama went to a lefthanded QB, it didn't make sense to "progress" to the non-blind side.
Does Wills have the skills should be the question? I think he does. But, it's a decent bit of conjecture. It'd be a lot easier to figure out if teams could still bring in prospects for workouts.
On other OTs, I'm starting to kick around the idea of something along the lines of Peters for a year with Austin Jackson developing behind him. Jackson has a decent bit of technical stuff to clean up, but his upside is immense. Might be an ideal fit in a ZBS. He's probably the youngest "big time" prospect and didn't switch to LT full time until his senior year of high school, I believe I read. Plus, he had the down time for the bone marrow procedure for his sister. I think he could be a good fit with Stefanski and Callahan. Would be a bit of a bet on him being able to live up to what he can do a lot more consistently than he has so far, but the reward could be great. And he even has some added ST kick blocking value.
Perhaps Berry is being intentionally vague or throwing up a smokescreen. More revealing, he said the OLine is a priority every year...
That's what i'm thinking. I've said that i don't think the switch is that big of a deal. Guys switch from left to right all the time.
But, it's two weeks from the draft. He wants to make it clear that all his options are open (whether this is true or false). So while i like this report/conference call, because Wills is my top guy, i don't think we can put too much stock into it.
Kinda to your point...
But if anyone has a subscription to the Athletic, I'd like to know what former offensive lineman Ross Tucker is referencing here in his article.
It's titled There is no longer a distinction between left tackles and right tackles
and it begins with the following:
How do you know someone doesn’t really know what they’re talking about when it comes to the NFL these days?
When they talk about the difference between left tackles and right tackles or describe an offensive lineman as a “right tackle only,” that’s how.
The truth is, anybody who has been paying close attention to the league the last few years realizes (or at least should) that there is no longer a distinction between the two positions on the edges of a team’s offensive line. If your team’s front office hasn’t figured that out yet, and there are still a few I’m not convinced have, you’ve got major problems.
That’s why I’m not surprised the Raiders are lining up at mandatory minicamp this week with their marquee free agent signing, Trent Brown, who played left tackle with the Patriots, at right tackle. Or that the Eagles drafted Washington State offensive tackle Andre Dillard in the first round to be the heir apparent to longtime...
Not to drag this on...but there really are no GIVENS coming up to man the LT spot. Regardless of where they played in college. How many played LT in college that we drafted outside of Joe Thomas, not a one except Joe were Given LTs they actually came in and played another position on day one not LT but played LT in college.
The fact they played LT or not is meaningless. The fact is do they have the skill set and Technique plus coachability in their character to make it at LT. As long as they played the Edge and mentally have the mindset of manning the Edge regardless of Right side or Left.
See, I'm not saying it's impossible. But having been an OL coach I'm sure that you understand that muscle memory and the ability to play the opposite side is not am given. That's more my point.
Forcing someone to switch positions only makes the odds a little longer. As such, this would impact their draft status on the big board.
IF they have the skill set to play tackle at the NFL level shouldn’t they be “athletic enough” to make the switch from one tackle spot top the other fairly simple ... were not splitting atoms here ...
Your telling me they can’t learn to take there first step back with there other foot ... its not like we have 8 of them ... *L* ... same with everything else ...
Dude’s athletic enough to play tackle at the nfl level and your telling me they can’t do it from the other side cause “reversing” there process is to hard for them ...
I know he was a RB coach first I'm hearing or forgetting possibly he was an OL coach. Frankly I don't care. I know what I know probably how he feels about me as well. But you telling me he was a coach also doesn't negate my opinion. Might somehow in your thinking process make it so. Do you cancel out the others opinion no, you just take the one you wish to BELIEVE and stick with it. I'm not impressed with other's OL coaching experience. Mostly he and I have talked about QB in the past. I continued to learn so much. Its been 3 years since I stopped coaching. But all those years I was coaching I continued to learn each year.
Don't get me wrong, Vers knows football and knows technique He just sometimes makes his mind up differently than I do.
Don't know how many LT were utilized the way LTs are used in pass pro for HS as much as NFL. In many HS the RT is more important in their schemes than a LT was. Cause they would move the pocket to the right a lot with Right handed running QBs.
Different Game. So this vowing for somebody elses claimed prowess. I don't really believe much. Don't believe me. Don't believe Vers. Don't believe anything anyone claims and really don't ask anyone to believe me either why I try not to give my credentials when I spout my opinion...just give them out, opinions that is.
But I've TAUGHT LT, RT, QB from 11 years old to their Manhood that is my experience. The only fact I will spout is every year I learned more and more and was able to teach more.
If anyone PM'd me for advice on their kids I would help them but on this board that is about it.
As for coaching I enjoyed 11-12 year olds the most. Just so eager to learn and not full of themselves...lol
IF they have the skill set to play tackle at the NFL level shouldn’t they be “athletic enough” to make the switch from one tackle spot top the other fairly simple ... were not splitting atoms here ...
Your telling me they can’t learn to take there first step back with there other foot ... its not like we have 8 of them ... *L* ... same with everything else ...
Dude’s athletic enough to play tackle at the nfl level and your telling me they can’t do it from the other side cause “reversing” there process is to hard for them ...
I’m not buying it ....
Have you tried throwing with your non-dominant hand? "Flipping sides" is not always as simple as it sounds.
So how many OT's did you switch from RT to LT and at what level?
My point was simply that not everyone who is qualified shares your opinion.
I also stated that I wasn't saying it was impossible. It's just simply something we haven't seen done and there must be some reason for that. Even when you look at players like Vick at QB, his RT's were never converted to LT's.
As I said, when you switch an OT from one side to another, there's a learning curve. Not all of them will make that transition. There is a risk factor to be considered in such a situation.
As such, that risk factor factors into where you place them on your big board.
While I agree with you in principal, learning to do things in the total reverse of the way you're doing it now, and have been most of your life, is certainly not a given by any stretch. There's certainly a risk factor involved in counting on that.
1. Thomas 2. Wirfs 3. Wills 4. Cleveland 5. Jackson/Jones
According to Dane Brugler, he has been told the Browns FO really likes Ezra Cleveland (could be smoke, of course) but I wonder if a trade down would be in the works if their top 1 or 2 guys are off the board. Now, every team in the NFL knows the Browns need and LT so they would have to be pretty damn sure they could get their guy later on if that were the case.
So how many OT's did you switch from RT to LT and at what level?
My point was simply that not everyone who is qualified shares your opinion.
I also stated that I wasn't saying it was impossible. It's just simply something we haven't seen done and there must be some reason for that. Even when you look at players like Vick at QB, his RT's were never converted to LT's.
As I said, when you switch an OT from one side to another, there's a learning curve. Not all of them will make that transition. There is a risk factor to be considered in such a situation.
As such, that risk factor factors into where you place them on your big board.
Now if you would like to discuss that, fine.
Mike Vick's years with the Falcons (2002 to 2006), there's no tackle name that stands out to me. Both LT's he had on either side of his Kevin Schaffer years were older guys i never heard of. His RT for those year though was a guy named Todd Weiner. Todd Weiner played on the Seahawks before Atlanta. The LT on the Seahawks was Walter Jones. Didn't really have a choice on what side he would play there. He started as a RT (i assume) the 2001 season. He went to Atlanta in 2002. So, I don't think they were going to move a guy who played LT for 10 years in the NFL to RT when they drafted Vick (the Falcons original LT). And we don't know how good of a LT Weiner could have been because Walter Jones is a HOF LT. But he is highly regarded in Atlanta.
Also remember, Mike Vick is not your prototypical passer. He was a running QB. Often rolling to his left.
I just don't think the Vick example is very good because they weren't going to move a guy who played LT for them for 10 years when Vick showed up. Then Schaffer came on, and we know plenty about him. Then another older Vet showed up. The whole time this Weiner guy played the RT position.
I had to when i was a kid ... i broke my right arm and was forced to use my left .... for me ... no problem ... one of my biggest strengths in hoops was i could drive either way and from 15 feet in shoot with either hand ... i was a peanut yet those driving hook shots made me the tallest dude on the court ... *L* ...
I see what your saying ... i don’t agree with it but i see what your saying ...
We use our arms daily in regards to witch one is dominant ... unless your kicking not so much with your feet ... and these guys have taken far less reps dropping with one foot then we do throwing with our dominant arms ...
Also ... how many of us played tackle in the nfl .... some may have been atheletic enough but i would imagine that’s very very few of us ... *L* ...
It might take a month of reps ... but if it takes much longer than that ... your prolly not good enough anyhow ... ...
I've asked for any example and haven't heard anyone present one yet.
Once again, I'm saying that there's most certainly a learning curve. One that adds some question marks. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm also saying that when you are "depending" on that working, those question marks most certainly impact where a player is rated on your big board. That's why I'm saying you just can't say.... "I think all of these guys would be good LT's so we can draft any of them at #10". Well I guess you can say it but common sense dictates otherwise.
It simply doesn't work that way.
By the time you get to the third rated LT, I'm sure there are many players at other positions that will be rated much higher on your board. Especially when you're depending on a player to switch positions.
So in order to draft the third rated LT in this draft, you will have to ignore your big board and draft need over your top rated players on the board.
Run him through some drills doing it ... if he keeps tripping move on .. *L* ...
lol I don't think that's what anyone is saying.
I think any time you expect a player to switch positions, doing things the opposite way they have done something their entire career, it brings into question the certainty of it being successful. As such it impacts where you have them ranked on your big board.
As such, whether we draft a LT at #10 will certainly depend on who is left on the board. It's not a "place name here" scenario at #10. I've seen it posted that any of the four top rated NFL draft prospects at LT are worthy of the #10 pick. I think we both know better than that.
By the time you get to the third rated LT, I'm sure there are many players at other positions that will be rated much higher on your board. Especially when you're depending on a player to switch positions.
So in order to draft the third rated LT in this draft, you will have to ignore your big board and draft need over your top rated players on the board.
1) Wills, with the position change is my top rated LT.
After Wills, I like Andrew Thomas. If either are there, it's a no brainer to me. I still think i'd select Wirfs or Becton as well. LT's are hard to find. They're very good prospects, in most drafts they go within the top 10 as well.
I do this because of number 2
2) If we do not draft a LT at 10, we have to have a plan in place to secure that position. So, let's go your way. The only tackle there is Wills, and you think he's not a safe enough option to man our LT position. What are you going to do to protect Baker's blindside? Kendall Lam, I've heard was pretty darn bad in Houston? Cause i still have PTSD from that video of Justin McCray and whoever our TE was, screwing up the block on Bud Dupree and getting Baker Smoked. We invest in a QB at number 1. Supposed to be the franchise guy, and we have Kendall Lam blocking his blindside to start the season?
Or do we trade for Trent Williams? How much of a percentage of the cap does our O-Line become if we have Williams, Bitonio, Tretter, and Conklin on contracts? And then we're stuck in the same predicament when Williams has to be replaced........
That's the issue for me. There's four good prospects. Some better than others. We have a gaping hole at LT. Financially, it makes sense to fix it with a draft pick. We don't have a lot of other options. Trent Williams who hasn't played football lately, missed games in the last seasons he's played, and wants a new contract; or Jason Peters who is 38.
The key sentence being "fix it with a draft pick". If you reach out of need you may not only neglect to fix the problem but also blow the #10 pick in the draft.
Your scenario wreaks of reaching based on dire need. That's never been a sound draft strategy with a top 10 pick.
I would think most RTs in college probably spent most of their careers playing LT. Typically the best player in high school and even middle school plays left tackle. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter because it does. Some kids can’t get used to the change in footwork.
As to what Berry said...
I have thought about it as well as read comments from Tucker, Schwartz and Golic Jr. and I believe what they all are saying is that it doesn’t matter anymore because of the athletic ability it takes to play the position now is so high for both sides. No longer is the best pass rusher lined up across from the left tackle. I don’t know how many plays a game NFL offenses line up a TE to pass block, let alone what side they line up on. I would love to see those numbers because I don’t think they would be that out of whack.
“I think Mekhi Becton is the guy that fits the Browns’ system, really well actually. Not only is he the size of Jonathan Ogden, but he’s also the athleticism of Jonathan Ogden,” Thomas said. “Now that’s not saying he’s going to have a first ballad hall of fame career, but I think the combination of Bill Callahan (O-Line Coach), and a system run by Kevin Stefanski that fits big athletic guys perfectly, it would just be such a great fit and it would be so fun to watch him out there at Left Tackle for like 10 years.”
I love Joe Thomas the player, and Joe Thomas the technician as he talks about his craft, but I've never seen Joe Thomas the Analyst talk critically of another player. It's almost like Chucky talking about a QB... each and every one is the best one ever. It makes it kinda hard to give it full weight anymore.
I don’t have a lot of faith in Joe the analyst. You are right about him not being critical of players. However, the fact that he thinks Becton is a better fit than the others makes me want to take a second look.
I'd wait a week and see if there is a video on one of the other guys where Joe thinks he's a great fit and would love to see him playing here for 10 years.
I've been thinking that since some folks are pretty adamant that there is no difference between playing LT or RT, then we can just move Conklin to LT, right?
I've been thinking that since some folks are pretty adamant that there is no difference between playing LT or RT, then we can just move Conklin to LT, right?
Is someone really saying there is no difference? I haven't been on all day and about to log off to go have dinner and play board games with the family .... prefer to not to have to read every post to verify.
I've been thinking that since some folks are pretty adamant that there is no difference between playing LT or RT, then we can just move Conklin to LT, right?
When I say there is no difference I mean in the importance of the position, not in the actual playing of the position on the field.
I wasn't calling you out. I was speaking more to the articles and what Berry said about being no difference in playing LT or RT. I think I put "j/c" when I responded because I didn't want to offend anyone.
NOTESNotes: Andrew Berry not concerned about right tackles in college making switch to left side in NFLby Scott Petrak April 10, 2020
General manager Andrew Berry is keeping his options open as he looks for a left tackle in the upcoming draft.
Berry said Friday he doesn’t get hung up on left tackle vs. right tackle as he evaluates prospects. That seems to increase the chances of the Browns drafting Alabama’s Jedrick Wills or Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs with the No. 10 pick April 23. Wills was strictly a right tackle in college and Wirfs played mostly right tackle.
“From my perspective, tackles are tackles,” Berry said on a conference call. “In terms of guys making the switch, certainly there is an element of muscle memory that needs to be reprogrammed, so to speak, for people who have played one side or the other for a long period of time.
“If you look, Jack Conklin was a college left tackle that has been a pretty well-accomplished right tackle in our league. Perhaps the best example of a career college right tackle who has been a pretty good left tackle in our league is (Dallas’) Tyron Smith. Sometimes those distinctions can be a bit overemphasized. In today’s game, the two tackle positions may not be identical, but they are pretty close.”
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The Browns signed Conklin last month for three years and $42 million. He’s slotted to be the right tackle after playing there with the Titans.
Georgia’s Andrew Thomas and Louisville’s Mekhi Becton are considered the other top candidates for the Browns at No. 10, and each has a lot of experience at left tackle. Wills and Wirfs are extremely athletic, but sometimes linemen struggle when changing sides.
“I don’t think he has any physical problems with him, now the guy’s never done it, you never know can he get in a left-hand stance and how long is it going to take him to adapt to all that. I can’t answer that,” Alabama coach Nick Saban told The Chronicle-Telegram recently regarding Wills.
Berry also considers right tackle as important as left tackle in today’s NFL.
“Honestly, I think the distinction between left and right tackle is really outdated,” he said. “We are no longer in the days of football where teams will have their best rusher and line him up on the defensive right side and offensive left side of the formation. Really, the game is not played that way. From my perspective, tackles are tackles.
“The requirements of both the left and the right tackle in today’s sport are just as challenging. You are going to face top rushers every week at both spots.”
Berry confident Browns will be prepared for unique draft setup
SOLID START
Berry has added 13 players since the start of the league year March 18, highlighted by Conklin, tight end Austin Hooper, defensive tackle Andrew Billings and cornerback Kevin Johnson.
“We thought they had the talent and the skill sets that would fit really well into our offensive and defensive systems,” Berry said of the additions. “We think they embody the characteristics that we are looking for in terms of people, fitting into our locker room and fitting into our organization. We like the value we got for the players. I think it is a good start to the offseason.”
Safety Karl Joseph agreed to a one-year deal March 18 and is expected to start, but the team has yet to announce the signing.
“The big thing there is the physical,” Berry said. “The focus of the hospital system is rightfully so on COVID-19 so it can be a little more challenging from state to state. That is really the only reason he has not been announced, but we do not anticipate any significant problems.”
ONE AND DONE?
Billings, Johnson, Joseph, linebacker B.J. Goodson and safety Andrew Sendejo got one-year deals after Conklin, Hooper and backup quarterback Case Keenum signed multiyear contracts.
“Some of it is really just not forcing the market’s hand,” Berry said of the one-year deals. “Some of them did find perhaps a more depressed market than they were expecting going into the process. It did work out that way, but part of it was just trying to be opportunistic as we navigated some of the different player markets.”
GETTING ALONG
They haven’t been together in the team facility recently, but Berry raved about working with coach Kevin Stefanski and chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta.
“He has an incredible sense of humor and an incredible wit,” Berry said of Stefanski. “He can really get me going just because he has such a sharp wit. He is a really, really funny guy. I can’t wait when we do open the building back up and our players get to know him a little bit more intimately. I know they are going to embrace him.”
As for DePodesta, Berry said he brings a unique perspective to the role after spending two decades in front offices of Major League Baseball teams.
“It is something that both Kevin and I have hit on of how fantastic of a thought partner Paul has been in a variety of the football operations domains,” Berry said.
EXTRA POINTS
Berry opened the call by thanking public health officials and medical professionals for their roles in dealing with the coronavirus pandemic. He also commended the Haslams, Baker Mayfield, Myles Garrett, Denzel Ward and Larry Ogunjobi for their charitable donations, and urged everyone to stay at home to help slow the spread of the virus.
** Berry said a shortened, or canceled, offseason program will be a “challenge” but compared it to the 2011 lockout that erased the offseason.
“Teams navigated that fine,” he said. “It creates a different environment, but it is not like it is the first time that organizations or teams have had to deal with it or deal with adversity. We will be ready to go.”
Switch??? Mostly guys like TEs who were losing a step and made them LTs. RTs to LT. Mostly taught guys who never were taught properly so the transition was from Nothing to a LT. I didn't like big Fatties. I liked athletic TE or FB sitting on the bench and converted them to OL.
What are you doing now testing me. Invalidating my opinions. Or ability to coach.
As mentioned I could care less of others opinion regarding OL I know what I know. Im not saying they can't have an opinion. I'm just stating what is the Truth.
I didn’t say that .... i agreed 100& with u until i saw who else was saying it might be true ... still on your side for one simple reason ... u can’t see what’s behind u ... if MG beats the LT and u have a right handed an ... it could be the end of your an if he can’t see MG coming ...
To me .. there’s a difference in what side u play based on that ... but like P said ... i wanna learn more about why some of the best to ever play the game are saying it doesn’t matter anymore ...
Your not curious as to why else they say there’s no difference?
I felt like this was relevant. Coming from one of the best LT's in football right now (as much as it hurts to say it).
Basically, Ronnie Stanley says that protecting the blindside is an extra weight on your shoulders (but, something that Wills certainly carried at Alabama protecting the Left Handed Tua)
Switch??? Mostly guys like TEs who were losing a step and made them LTs. RTs to LT. Mostly taught guys who never were taught properly so the transition was from Nothing to a LT. I didn't like big Fatties. I liked athletic TE or FB sitting on the bench and converted them to OL.
What are you doing now testing me. Invalidating my opinions. Or ability to coach.
As mentioned I could care less of others opinion regarding OL I know what I know. Im not saying they can't have an opinion. I'm just stating what is the Truth.
No, you are stating an opinion. Just like I've been stating mine. What are you doing, trying to invalidate my opinion?
See how that works?
You're stating what you believe. That doesn't make it "the truth".
Except, most NFL Right Tackles played LT in College. There's no issue there when we look into drafting right tackles. We never say, "I dunno, we shouldn't draft ______ because i'm not sure he'll be able to get down the mechanics when we switch him to right tackle". That's not ever even in the discussion. So i'm not sure why there would be such an issue with switching from right to left.
Like i've stated. When it comes solely to SWITCHING MECHANICS, no one has explained to me why it's any harder from RT to LT. I've heard why the LT position is harder from Vers. But no one has explained to me why there's any difference in difficulty (from a mechanical aspect), to switch from right to left verses left to right.
I know, you say there's no examples. Most of that is because there's few so few lefty QBs in the NFL. Jedrick Wills was mostly asked to do what a Left Tackle does, just on the right side.
Yet it was deemed that those LT's couldn't play the position in the NFL.
It's not about "the job he was asked to do". It's about if he can do that same job from the opposite side.
Look, you keep making an argument that isn't even there.
I've never said "it can't be done". I said it raises more question marks about whether a player can have the same results from the opposite side. And that is most certainly true.
Every question you have about a player impacts their draft status. It impacts where you have them on your big board.
I don't believe there's really anything there to debate.
Yet it was deemed that those LT's couldn't play the position in the NFL.
For completely different reasons than what would apply to Jedrick Wills........
Jedrick Wills played RT because that's the blindside tackle in Alabama. He's more than talented enough to be a top-level blindside tackle in the NFL, whether that's on the left-side or on the right-side.
Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
I don't believe there's really anything there to debate.
The only real thing it seems we disagree on is how asking and expecting someone switch positions may impact their draft stock. Surely you're not suggesting that there isn't at least some movement in a players draft position on your big board based on the question of if he will be as effective at a different position are you?
Georgia LT Andrew Thomas connected with Browns GM Andrew Berry on video call & ‘I’m the best tackle in this class’
Updated Apr 11, 4:26 PM; Posted Apr 10, 5:15 AM Andrew Thomas Georgia offensive lineman Andrew Thomas speaks during a press conference at the NFL combine in February. By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio — Georgia left tackle Andrew Thomas feels he connected well with Browns GM Andrew Berry during a recent “top 30” FaceTime call, and hopes Berry agrees that he’s the best offensive tackle in this deep and rich class.
“It was a casual conversation,’’ Thomas told cleveland.com in a phone interview this week. “I thought it was going to be a little more intense. It was a very smooth conversation, and we had some things in common. We talked about growing up in a church and stuff like that.’’
Growing up in Lithonia, Ga., Thomas played drums at his church, and the music ministry was a family affair.
“Washboards and tambourines, the whole thing," he said.
As a freshman in high school, he was still playing drums in the marching band until he decided to make a different kind of music on the field.
“I’d be at the pep rally and I’d be playing in the band with my jersey on and then I’d go over to the football team and do the football things,’’ Thomas said. “But my head coach, Chris Slade, told me I had a chance to write my own ticket playing football. He told me that I have to put my focus on football and that’s what I did.’’
When Thomas left for Georgia, he mostly left the drums behind and transitioned to piano, alternating between gospel music and R&B.
“I still love music, but I put my focus on football and I’m here now,’’ he said.
It was Thomas’ character that seemed to strike Berry as much as his dominating performance at left tackle in the demanding SEC, where he became the first Bulldog in 21 years to win the conference’s Jacobs Blocking Trophy and earned All-SEC first-team honors as a junior in 2019.
“Andrew said I had a lot of the intangibles that they’re looking to add to their team, good character,’’ said Thomas. “They feel that translates to playing on the field, so I feel that’s something I have.’’
Andrew Thomas NFL draft profile Thomas was planning to make a visit to Cleveland — one of the Browns’ 30 allotted players to come to team headquarters before the draft — but the coronavirus pandemic turned those visits into carefully controlled Zoom or FaceTime calls. Instead of impressing with an in-depth in-person interview and perhaps even a private workout at Georgia, he’s had to do so via video chat.
“The calls with the teams help me to stay mentally sharp, understanding the game when they ask me to explain different concepts and trying to learn different things that they teach me,’’ he said. “I’ve just been trying to focus on staying in shape and performing well in these interviews, because right now this is all I have to help them get a grasp on what type of player and person I am.’’
Thomas also had a Zoom call with Browns coach Kevin Stefanski and they discussed his wide zone scheme, something Thomas ran a lot at Georgia.
“He was saying me being athletic is something that they like as far being able to open up holes in the wide zone,’’ he said.
Thomas has had about seven or eight video conferences so far. “Mostly teams in the (draft’s) top 10,’’ he said.
He knows he’s one player in a stellar tackle class that includes Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs, Alabama’s Jedrick Wills and Louisville’s Mekhi Becton. All four could go in the top 10. But Thomas has no question about who should go first.
“I played three years in the SEC at both right tackle and left tackle,’’ he said. “I dominated every year and I feel like I’m the best tackle in this class.’’
Draft analyst Mike Renner of profootballfocus.com, an analytics site the Browns have valued, couldn’t agree more. Renner has Thomas ranked No. 1 among tackles and No. 8 overall on his big board.
“While you don't need to have elite strength to be an elite pass protector in the NFL, one thing is for certain: it helps,’’ Renner writes in the site’s draft guide. “Being able to stop opposing edge rushers in their tracks with one punch can make up for a lot of technical issues. Thomas not only has that level of strength, but he also shows terrific agility and down to down consistency in his technique. He's got the best career grading profile of any tackle in the draft class and has done it against the best competition of any tackle in the class as well. All that makes you feel good about his prospects in the NFL.’’
Thomas’ advantage over players such as Wirfs and Wills is playing his final two seasons at left tackle after starting on the right side as a freshman.
“In high school, the last three years I played left tackle and then I was flipped to right tackle at Georgia and I was starting in the SEC, so that was a big thing for me and it helped me,’’ he said. “The next year, I flipped over to left tackle. It was a smooth transition and I dominated the next two years. I feel like going through that, even though it wasn’t in the NFL, kind of will help me if I have to go through it again.’’
With the Browns signing Jack Conklin to start at right tackle, Thomas would start at left tackle, but has the versatility to move around in a pinch.
“I can definitely go over to the other side and play right tackle,’’ he said. “When I train, I work some at right tackle and I can also move inside if I have to. Just trying to get on the field wherever I can.’’
Thomas, who’d be the heir apparent of future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas, joked, “I definitely have the right last name."
Nick Saban on Jedrick Wills Jr. He reiterated what he said at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, that he’d embrace the challenge of following in Thomas’ footsteps.
“He’s one of the best to play the game and he’s going to be a Hall of Famer, so I would definitely be excited to learn from that guy,’’ he said.
Although he mostly watches film of Dallas’ Tyron Smith and Washington’s Trent Williams, he learned a lot about Thomas from former Browns offensive line coach Bob Palcic, with whom he worked before the combine.
“I did a lot of two-hand punching in college, and if you watch Joe, he does a lot of high-hand, low-hand, which Coach Palcic was teaching me,’’ Thomas said.
Thomas would love to block for former Georgia teammate Nick Chubb again, as he said at the combine, as well as play with Baker Mayfield, whom his Bulldogs outlasted 54-48 in a double-overtime Rose Bowl thriller after the 2017 season.
“He’s a dynamic quarterback,’’ Thomas said. “Being on the other side of that just watching how good of a quarterback he is, the Browns are definitely going to be a winning team in the near future. It would be an honor to block for him. He’s very passionate, very energetic throughout the game and I’m sure his teammates respond to that well.’’
Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry and Austin Hooper also have Thomas imagining the possibilities.
“The Browns are a team on the rise,’’ he said. “They have all the pieces they need and it’s just a matter of time before they put it all together and compete for a Super Bowl.’’
If they call his name at No. 10 to be part of the mix, it would be music to his ears.
I didn’t say that .... i agreed 100& with u until i saw who else was saying it might be true ... still on your side for one simple reason ... u can’t see what’s behind u ... if MG beats the LT and u have a right handed an ... it could be the end of your an if he can’t see MG coming ...
To me .. there’s a difference in what side u play based on that ... but like P said ... i wanna learn more about why some of the best to ever play the game are saying it doesn’t matter anymore ...
Your not curious as to why else they say there’s no difference?
I think other people on this thread are putting words into my mouth.
--I have never said that a guy can't switch sides. I do know there is a learning curve. I do know that some have failed.
--I have said that playing w/a TE beside you makes things easier. P-Dawg brought up points about how often guys are strictly pass blockers and he was curious as to how often TEs line-up on one side or the other. Two things about that......if you don't think that a TE chipping an Edge rusher on his way out to a pass routes helps......then I don't want to tell you guys. If you haven't noticed that the TEs line-up far more on the right side in 11 personnel, then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not trying to win some damn argument. I was trying to educate.
--Bro, who are the best to ever play the game that said it doesn't matter anymore? I missed that. I saw Berry say it. Pluto said. Both Scwartz's said it. I think Ross Verba said it.
--I have said that the gap is narrowing because teams line-up elite pass rushers on both sides, but bro......having a TE to help you is big. LT's typically have better feet and are more agile. RTs are typically stronger and better run blockers. That's a generalization and it's not always the case, but it is more often than not.
--I haven't degraded any of the prospects or went nuts on any, either. Again, I am not trying to win an argument on whom we should draft. I just don't like false things being considered factual.
“Honestly, I think the distinction between left and right tackle is really outdated,” he said. “We are no longer in the days of football where teams will have their best rusher and line him up on the defensive right side and offensive left side of the formation. Really, the game is not played that way. From my perspective, tackles are tackles.
“The requirements of both the left and the right tackle in today’s sport are just as challenging. You are going to face top rushers every week at both spots.”
I don't think Andrew Berry is saying a right tackle can play left tackle and vice versa. I think he is saying that both positions are equally important. I agree with that sentiment.
Surely you're not suggesting that there isn't at least some movement in a players draft position on your big board based on the question of if he will be as effective at a different position are you?
For me (if I had done so), it could be said that it affects his grade, but not his ranking. Had he played LT he'd still be number 2 for me. My number 1 prospect is Chase Young. I don't bring him up because he won't be there.
Chase Young plays a vital position that we need to fill. I'd take him and start working a deal for someone else. After that, my next three guys are (in this order), Wills, Thomas, Wirfs
“Honestly, I think the distinction between left and right tackle is really outdated,” he said. “We are no longer in the days of football where teams will have their best rusher and line him up on the defensive right side and offensive left side of the formation. Really, the game is not played that way. From my perspective, tackles are tackles.
“The requirements of both the left and the right tackle in today’s sport are just as challenging. You are going to face top rushers every week at both spots.”
I don't think Andrew Berry is saying a right tackle can play left tackle and vice versa. I think he is saying that both positions are equally important. I agree with that sentiment.
I agree 100% that this is the intent of the comment, and mostly I agree with it ... and from various articles, comments and tweets I also see/agree that (for a righty QB) the LT becomes more critical because from that side the QB doesn't see the pressure if the LT is beat ... and I can understand how some OT's can deal with that additional mental pressure better than others. But beyond that, yes, you have great pass rushers from the left and right and I think teams don't put (such a high) premium on LT vs RT as they did 6-7 years ago. That said, we have our RT - we need a LT. If we decide to select a player who has only played RT at the college level, it is an additional risk above and beyond the usual player assessment/NFL projection.
The only reason a college team's best OT would be the right tackle is when they have a lefty QB, to protect his blind side in pass pro. Beyond Stabler, Zorn, Tebow, and the guy from USC who's name escapes me, I can't think of them. In other words, I think its a pretty unique situation. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, just that we don't have any (or enough) examples to provide a measuring stick. I'm confident that if our scouts and other big brains, like Callahan, think Wills has the skillset to play LT, then he can.
Tyron Smith played right tackle at USC. The QB at the time was Matt Barkley. Smith played one season at right tackle in the NFL and then he switched to left tackle (Doug Free, the left tackle, switched to right tackle).
Other than Tyron Smith I can't think of any players that played only right tackle in college and then became long term starters at left tackle in the NFL.
“Honestly, I think the distinction between left and right tackle is really outdated,” he said. “We are no longer in the days of football where teams will have their best rusher and line him up on the defensive right side and offensive left side of the formation. Really, the game is not played that way. From my perspective, tackles are tackles.
“The requirements of both the left and the right tackle in today’s sport are just as challenging. You are going to face top rushers every week at both spots.”
I don't think Andrew Berry is saying a right tackle can play left tackle and vice versa. I think he is saying that both positions are equally important. I agree with that sentiment.
Not arguing and you are entitled to that opinion, but the part that is highlighted in green seems pretty straight-forward.
Again, I agree that the gap has narrowed between the two positions and I know that there have been guys saying there is "no difference. I especially agree w/teams having good pass rushers on both sides. However, there are still some discrepancies between the positions.
And while you can find a guy like Smith who moved from RT to LT, the vast majority move from the left to the right and even guard simply because of their skill set. Things like footwork, arm length, agility, etc.
PS: I am assuming that seeing you posting is good news in regards to your test?
That's sort of funny your theory that YOU STATED not me Vers was more apt to be correct cause not what he said but because he was an OL coach. But if I coach OL it means nothing and its not the truth just opinion.
Now lets get back to some truths here. Stop me when you don't understand something and I'll spell it out for you
RT use to be a Road Grater position rather than a quick twitch position like the LT Position. But when colleges starting going all out Spread Offenses Defenses had to put Competent Edge rushers at both positions.
Same thing with NFL more and more Shotgun and spread offenses emerging. Requiring good Pass Pro technique from both OTs.
The SKILL SET NEEDED for RT has changed over the last 10 years (if decade helps you more replace 10 years with Decade).
Also in the run game it is necessary to stretch the field Horizontal which means you have to get outside and it is advantageous to have an OT who can get to the edge and control it.
That's not really the issue here. The issue is valuing a player the same whom you have to trust to switch positions at the NFL level.
That's not a given. It's not an automatic. Thus it's certainly one risk to consider into the equation when making your big board and where you slot such players. It's not like you can take any of four guys at the #10 spot at the LT position and *insert name here* like they are all valued the same.
Please stop taking this personal. My point is that not everyone who is as qualified as you are agrees with your opinion. It's not to place the value of one opinion over the other. I just happen to agree with an opposing opinion.
My biggest problem with Draft evaluation is trying to figure out how to predict growth and development. Does being the best coached make a player the best prospect? Or does it make it harder for them to see further growth? Without actually talking to prospects and seeing their approach to their craft, it's largely a guessing game.
What they will be is more important than what they were when it comes to the draft. It's also infinitely harder to figure out.
I don't think players ever necessarily "max out," but some have hard limits that prevent growth in certain directions. I worry in that vein of thinking about Wirfs and Thomas and to a lesser extent Wills.
They're the best now, but do they have limitations that will be exploitable at the next level?
From the other side of my pondering, I've concerns over Becton ever reaching his high ceiling.
I've read a fair bit of Ezra Cleveland buzz, but I'm not in on it. An OL already having foot problems seems unlikely to end well. Adding weight and smashing against larger humans sounds like it is more likely to exacerbate a preexisting condition to me. Underwhelming tape mostly against underwhelming competition doesn't help. I do have to dig deeper into the film, though. The first "big picture" look didn't do much for me.
Cleveland would definitely be a reach in the 1st. As would Austin Jackson. But between the two, I'd take a chance on Cleveland. Austin is definitely not Better than Ezra.
Austin Jackson Hopes To Continue In USC's Tradition Of Tackles by Fred Greetham 6 hours ago Austin Jackson (Photo: Shotgun Spratling | USCfootball.com, 247Sports)
(The OBR's Fred Greetham will feature several of the players that could be targets of the Browns in the days leading up to the upcoming NFL Draft). Most NFL Draft observers have had the Browns penciled in for an offensive tackle since before the NFL Combine in Indianapolis in February began and before free agency began in mid-March. Fast forward to less than two weeks from the draft and that's still the consensus.
The Browns filled a major hole by agreeing to terms with Jack Conklin as an unrestricted free agent on the first day teams were allowed to talk with free agents. However, the Browns still have a major void at tackle, particularly left tackle. Conklin is presumed to be the new right tackle and currently, the other tackles on the roster are Chris Hubbard and Kendall Lamm. Conklin was signed to replace Hubbard, who has deficiencies in his game, but re-structured his contract and is still with the Browns, likely as a top backup at guard or tackle. Since future Hall of Famer Joe Thomas retired in 2017, the Browns have tried Shon Coleman, Joel Bitonio, Desmond Harrison and Greg Robinson at left tackle. We started the series with Iowa's Tristan Wirfs , followed by Georgia's Andrew-Thomas, Alabama's Jedrick Wills, Louisville's Mekhi Becton, Houston's Josh Jones and Ezra Cleveland, which can be found here: Could Tristan Wirfs Be At The Top Of The Browns Wish List?
Could Browns Find Joe Thomas' Replacement With Another Thomas? Wills Says Switching From Right To Left Tackle Isn't A Problem Mammoth OT Mekhi Becton Might Be In Browns Sights Could Josh Jones Be A Surprise Pick For the Browns? Could Cleveland Be A Good Fit In Cleveland?
In our last profile on Ezra Cleveland, we mentioned that he might be a player targeted by the Browns if they were to trade down or players they could target in the second-round. One of the players that might be in the conversation for the Browns in a trade-down or the second-round is USC's Austin Jackson. NFL.com, who compared Jackson to D.J. Humphries, analyzed Jackson in this way: "Early-entry tackle prospect who is raw but gifted and is likely to be coveted by a variety of teams, thanks to his true left tackle traits. Jackson has loads of athletic ability and play talent that is waiting to be developed and harvested. Inconsistent hand placement and footwork could be exploited early on if teams try and rush him into the starting lineup, but issues are correctable. He's scheme-diverse with potential guard flexibility if he improves his strength. He could become an early starter but may offer a wider split between floor and ceiling than some teams might like." NFL.com ranked Jackson as the 28th-best player, while Sports Illustrated ranked him 36th, The Sporting News 37th and Bleacher Report 42nd.
In 2019, as a junior, Jackson started all 13 games at left tackle and earned first-team All-Pac-12 honors. As a freshman, Jackson started all 12 games at left tackle the previous season as a sophomore. Jackson has the bloodlines as his grandfather, Melvin, played for the Packers for five seasons after playing offensive line for USC's 1974 national championship team. "I'm confident," Jackson said at the NFL Combine. "I come from a family of football players. My grandfather played in the NFL. This is what I've been working for. This was my dream since I was a kid, since I started playing football. And I'm ready." Jackson said he learned from his grandfather. "It's a business," he said. "You have to show up every day, work to get better. There's some technique stuff he's showed me, but football in the '70s is a lot different than football now. But the biggest thing he's taught me is show up every day, work hard, and make the most for yourself."
Jackson (6-5, 322) was asked what skills will translate to the NFL. "My natural length and athleticism," he said. "I have a work ethic like any other. I see what needs to be fixed within myself and I'm able to correct it and improve." USC OT Austin Jackson said he prefers run blocking pic.twitter.com/y5q20K1aVH — Fred Greetham (@FredGreetham) February 26, 2020 Jackson said he feels his strength is run blocking.
"Any run block really," he said. "Run blocking is fun for me. I like pass protection, but run blocking is fun." Jackson described his football personality this way. "Passionate. Competitive," he said. "I want to win. Line up with my teammates, my guys, and I play to win. Compete. Dominate." Jackson displayed his character with a selfless act to help save the life of his sister by going through a bone marrow transplant, which did set back his football career. "My sister has a rare blood disorder which causes your body not to produce red blood cells," Jackson said. "She's had it since she was born. The procedure I did, the bone marrow transplant, allows her body to accept my blood cells. Thank god we were a perfect match through blood testing. That allowed her to fully restart her system and her body is now producing red blood cells. "
Jackson said his sister is doing well now. "She's doing great," he said. "She's making a full recovery. No symptoms. She had to undergo chemo and her hair's growing back. Doctors say her blood is producing at levels they've never seen. It's great." Jackson said there was no hesitation and helping his sister out. "Definitely. I'm glad I could do it," he said. "I feel like everybody would have done it for their little sister or sibling. Really glad I could do that." Jackson said it took him a while to get his strength back after the process in the summer of 2019, but he returned to the Trojans last fall.
"It was a long process," he said. "I had to take the whole offseason to go home and be with her and train on my own. I couldn't afford to get sick. Otherwise, the procedure would have been prolonged. I battled back through fall camp and through the season to gain my strength back. "I didn't train for about three weeks after the surgery, then starting slowly working my way back to being on my feet," he said. "The procedure takes place in my lower back. As an offensive lineman that's pretty crucial." Jackson hopes to continue in the tradition of former USC tackles who have gone on to have great careers in the NFL, including Hall of Fame tackle Anthony Munoz. "I talk to guys like Anthony Munoz who come back," he said. "He's a legend, Hall of Famer. Guys like Tyron Smith, talked to him a couple times. Look forward to training with him this offseason. Sam Baker, another great, comes back a lot. There's a handful of them."
There is no question that Alabama's Jedrick Wills is one of the top-rated tackles in this year's NFL Draft class.
The problem on the surface appears to be the Browns need a left tackle to protect Baker Mayfield's blind side. Wills played right tackle in his career with the Crimson Tide.
However, that might not be the problem that some think it is because Alabama's quarterback was Tua Tagovailoa, who is left handed. Thus, Wills was protecting the blind-side.
"We never, ever tried him (at left tackle)," Alabama coach Nick Saban told the Chronicle-Telegram recently. “But we were kinda satisfied with him playing the right side because he was a good pass blocker and that was the back side of our quarterback, at least in that timeframe."
Wills is not worried about transitioning to left tackle in the NFL.
"I’m a very fast learner," Wills said at the NFL Combine. "My high football IQ is something I preach on. I’ll get into the playbook as fast as I can. The measurables and the physical comes along with that. If you don’t know what you’re doing, you won’t be able to do anything. I just like to learn as fast as I can."
Wills said he has been working on both positions leading up to the draft.
"I took minimal (left tackle) reps at Alabama," he said. "Leading up to the pre-draft process, I’m trying to do both because that’s something teams are asking about. I’m just trying to have that versatility. It’s something that’s new. Every time at a new position, it’s something you have to get used to. It’s something I’m trying to get comfortable with."
Wills said he thinks the hardest part for him will be just getting used to adjusting to the other side.
"Probably the muscle memory," he said. "Being on the right side for so long, it’s something that feels a little bit different. You switch your feet up, using your right hand, your punch time is going to be different. It’s small things."
Wills (6-4, 312) is ranked by NFL.com as the second-best offensive tackle and 10th-best overall player in the draft.
"I feel like I have a really good football IQ," he said. "It’s something I take pride in. I try to keep the M.A.’s to a minimum. I’m an athletic player and I like to dominate people."
NFL.com compared Wills to Jason Peters and summarized his ability this way:
"Agility and body control allow him to handle move-blocking duties successfully, but his leverage and elite transference of power from hips to his hands provide a big advantage as a body mover at the point of attack. His desire to control each snap occasionally leads to over-sets and lunging in an effort to stay ahead of opponents.
"Wills is one of the most impressive tackles in the draft... His game is tailor-made for the NFL, and his range of success is good starter to All-Pro."
In 2019, Wills earned second-team Associated Press All-American and first-team All-SEC honors while starting all 13 games at right tackle.
Alabama uses the wide zone blocking scheme, which the Browns plan to employ.
“Look, he’s one of the better guys that we’ve had (at Alabama) all the way around,” Saban said. “The guy can get moving in the run game, he’s smart, he’s got really good athletic ability, lateral quickness, open his hips in pass pro, he’s got good hands.
“And the guy’s really smart," he continued. "He takes it to the field, too. So he’s got a little toughness about him, too. I think he’s a really good player.”
Wills said his physical style of play drives him.
"That’s why I play the game," he said. "It’s something I’ve been doing forever. But at the next level, you go against bigger and better people. So, it’s a little more difficult. But I’m trying to keep that going."
Wills said playing in the SEC has prepared him for going up against some of the best pass rushers in the country.
"When you’re in the SEC and you’re going against dynamic pass rushers week in and week out, who have versatility, it’s major for you to do that so they can’t get in a rhythm over and over again," he said. "It’s something I took pride in and I tried to see how they react to each one."
26 COMMENTS If the Browns draft Willis, this is what he says the Browns will get.
"You’re going to get a competitor as well," Wills said. "A good offensive lineman who’s smart. I have a high football IQ. (I’m) a mauler in the run and pass game. I try to put people on the ground as much as I can."
The point I'm trying to make is the risk is minimal that you are talking about. I never said its a snap and automatic. What I'm saying is that if one has the quick feet regardless if he's from one side to the other. He can adjust. A clod hopper cannot. Read the OL 101 post Vers has put up all good stuff. Keeping the chest over the leg foundation. Knee Bend etc. Not once did he mention left hand on the ground or right hand. Technique and foundations in the making of a good OLman, remains the same.
If you have these good techniques inbedded in you as a prospect...guess what RT or LT you are a good prospect.
Its a matter of coaching in making that transition - Yes, it takes time but the risk is minimal. This is common sense.
Those who didn't make it never had the skill set. Or the character to work hard.
Now its up to you to have your own opinion but don't say mine is wrong.
Cleveland would definitely be a reach in the 1st. As would Austin Jackson. But between the two, I'd take a chance on Cleveland. Austin is definitely not Better than Ezra.
With that horrific joke covered...
I disagreed, Ezra Cleveland is not a reach in the first round imo. The only thing seperating Ezra Cleveland from being the top OT in this Draft is his competition, of no falt of his own btw.
Jones, Cleveland and Jackson should all go in the #18-#36 range.
I'd be surprised if any of them are there at #42.
#41
Jackson might be the only possibility. He doesn't play with power or to the level of his athletic traits.
I'm always leary of drafting a player who needs to be motivated.
I could see Isaiah Wilson possibly going ahead of Jackson, albeit as a RT.
I think that Cleveland has a higher ceiling (testing in the 92nd% SPARQ ... higher than either Wills or Thomas) than Jones, who athletically just meets the threshold of what teams look for a starting LT.
I disagreed, Ezra Cleveland is not a reach in the first round imo. The only thing seperating Ezra Cleveland from being the top OT in this Draft is his competition, of no falt of his own btw.
Then we’re watching different film, cause I completely disagree.
Cleveland would definitely be a reach in the 1st. As would Austin Jackson. But between the two, I'd take a chance on Cleveland. Austin is definitely not Better than Ezra.
With that horrific joke covered...
I disagreed, Ezra Cleveland is not a reach in the first round imo. The only thing seperating Ezra Cleveland from being the top OT in this Draft is his competition, of no falt of his own btw.
With all due respect, FL, there is little likelihood of EC being selected in the 1st rd (IMO)...
There is a top 4 OTs in this draft with the difference between #1 to #4 is minimal. I've seen like 4 different rankings...although Where all 4 are theses top Draft Analysts rankings as #1. What I see as always these guys get a feel cause they speak to a lot of GMs who off the record or not give away a lot of information. That is why as we get nearer to the draft they become more accurate in the top 10. Usually at some point but then after 15 they go all over the place in accuracy.
That is cause 15-35 not much in ranking is different so that usually need is the factor not BPA.
But top 10 its easier to rank them accurately. There are usually 3 OTs gone before our pick if that is so then there is a possibility that Simmons will be there. But if we do not take a LT then in this great draft for LTs we will end up with none cause the drop off from these top 4 are great and so the odds off getting a stud LT is minimal even though there are some decent talent/skill set in Jones, Cleveland and Jackson...they are not 1st round LT talent. And yes, in other draft years they would be up there but that is where they would be taken as REACH picks and highten the risk factor where these stats come out on the picks do not make it even though first rounders.
Cause they ain't first rounders. The worst thing that could happen is that we take the mentality of some of you and look at it as a shopping list. Ok Simmons in the first...then LT in the 2nd Check draft good for us...No Getting the 6th or 7th best LT Prospect in this draft is NEVER GOOD! Its a lost opportunity.
Is a stud Will LB that helpful to our D that another Will LB won't do as well. Is not Mack Wilson our Will LB now. I see Simmons to be better but its not a position that will normally impact a 4-3 Defense. A stud LT will. A stud LT will be with us Studding out for 10 years and unlike Joe Thomas we got a decent OL and a heck of a lot of Talent to go with it.
I disagreed, Ezra Cleveland is not a reach in the first round imo. The only thing seperating Ezra Cleveland from being the top OT in this Draft is his competition, of no falt of his own btw.
Then we’re watching different film, cause I completely disagree.
We certainly disagree here. Saying there are four players at the same position ranked in the top 10 BPA so you can just *insert name here* when your pick comes up at #10 is something I'll just never buy into.
There might be two and if so I hope we land one of those two. But four worthy of the top 10? Nah...
As usual you say something that I did not say. Which is hard to communicate on a message board.
What I said is that all 4 at one time or another. I've seen Andrew Thomas come off first. Wirfs come off 1st, Becton come off fist and Wills come off first.
So that all 4 is simply up to the preference of the teams doing the investigating. Then after these 4 OTs there is a major drop off to the next 3. Jones, Jackson and Cleveland. One of those 3 might be available to us in the 2nd round but there is a BIG TIME DIFFERENCE AND RISK factor in getting a Good LT.
What I have said is being repeated by the so called experts. This is one of (I say THE MOST EVER) best up front drafts for an OT investment. I have heard that repeatedly and no I will not search/copy/paste. I know what I have heard and it is no secret.
We will never get a shot at a LT with this much talent even if its #4. Do we let it pass. Is a successful Simmons somebody (as we will be in cap hell then) we will invest in a 2nd contract? In the scheme of things he is a guy we might let go not Garrett who is worth so much more to our Defense.
Our LT will be worth the 2nd contract.
In our Defense DL and CB is more valuable to invest in.
If we were in a 3-4 Defense different story. And again what part of I would still be a happy camper if the GUYS IN CHARGE went with Simmons...I have some bend in my opinion but you have none just the. I don't agree. You almost to the point of saying that I'm lying or something or worse yet, I'm stupid.
I know what I'm talking about, this years#4 is better than LAST YEARS #1. Or equal to 2018 #1. Its a special year. The way you present it as just settling as if the #4 stinks or is a reach...that is a total miss representation of the talent out there.
So then let me ask you, do you think all of the four you listed as the top 4 OT's are worthy of the #10 pick?
If so then it is actually a *insert name here* scenario as I have described.
If not I'd like to know which of those top 4 are worthy of the #10 pick in your opinion.
I don't think we are in a position as a team to abandon our big board to draft strictly on a need position at #10 and I certainly don't have all four of the OT's listed in my top 10 talents on the board.
And yes, if three other OT's are picked before #10, you get what's left over.
I see all 4 OTs, Wirfs, Wills, Becton and Thomas as OTs that will become good-great LTs.
Its a possibility one or more might not as nothing is a GIVEN. But I have never seen a bunch as these 4 in ONE DRAFT, never.
1. You have to know as a GM that the guy you take and we say the 4th best it could be 3 or 2nd best out there. You never know.
My personal preference is Wirfs, My least preferred is Becton only cause I have no clue on his Character. If I'm the GM I know his character up n down. I'm a fan so don't know, physically I do know that he will make mistakes but will BECOME a good-great LT. Again though he has to want it and work for it ergo Character.
You want me to be perfect but I'm not. I think both Wills and Thomas will be studs. My preference is Wirfs but usually what I see so do others and he will be the first taken.
If Becton is the first (he can become the best of the bunch) but I think he has the highest risk factor only cause of the unknown of the 4. Wills and Thomas both have great feet and a quick first step. I also think with Joe Thomas mentoring and I love his philosophy of the Shot put stance for explosion. Have a question. Do any of the 4 have experience in Shot put? I do think any of the 4 is worthy, the only one that I would need more info on would be Becton as I see him as a Workout warrior from the Combine not from the FILM. At worst we would get one heck of a RG but not a LT possibly. Still One heck of a RG could be very useful to a team and taken at #10 a good pick.
Worthy of top 10 yes, I would have to think long and hard if a Simmons or a Okudah is sitting there. Well Okudah I think is a no brainer cause of the position CB is one of the rare ones.
You don't like the idea so you use words "YOU GET WHAT'S LEFT OVER" No you get a VERY GOOD to GREAT LT is what you get LEFT OVER is not that #4...left over is Cleveland, Jones and Jackson those are the LEFT OVERS of this draft! And yet you probably would take one of those in the 2nd round no problem. Only one I would probably would be Cleveland for me. He has a very good first step.
I certainly believe you will get a very good LT in Thomas. I wouldn't touch Becton with a ten foot poll at #10. The other two are a little tougher because you'll be asking them to wipe their butt with the other hand.
I've noticed lately that in several mocks Andrew Thomas is slipping into the mid-teens. He may/may not be the best of the top 4, but he is sliding downward. Anybody got any ideas?
I've taken a lot of time watching video of of the top OTs and I would hope that the Browns have a good shot at the 2nd best OT in the draft with the #10 pick.
My top 2 OTs are Wirfs from Iowa and Andrew Thomas out of Georgia.
From that point down, there is a drop off in talent if the Browns are determined to draft "a starting LT"...jmo, mac
I've noticed lately that in several mocks Andrew Thomas is slipping into the mid-teens. He may/may not be the best of the top 4, but he is sliding downward. Anybody got any ideas?
They're mockdrafts made by wannabe GMs. Not like they aren't smart people, but they aren't General Managers. And the GM's make the decisions that count. I doubt Andrew Berry is consulting with Todd McShay on who he should draft at 10.
We'll see where Andrew Thomas really is when he's drafted. We might get a better idea when rumblings and leaks start coming out near draft day, but i think at the ten spot, we can't even be sure.
I mean, no one had Baker Mayfield going number 1 (except DeviceDawg? lol), then draftday shows up and bam. That's our guy. Turns out that he was the Jets' guy. And it was the Patriots guy (who i believe had a trade secured with the Giants to move to two if he was available).
Scouting NFL draft's best tackles: Finding best fits for Giants, Jets
JORDAN RAANAN AND RICH CIMINI 7:22 AM ET14 Minute Read First-round OL prospect displays his strength by pushing a truck First-round OL prospect displays his strength by pushing a truckFormer Louisville offensive tackle Mekhi Becton pushes a truck in preparation of the 2020 NFL draft. If there ever were a good time to find the right fit at offensive tackle at the top of the NFL draft, this is the year.
Four highly rated tackles -- Louisville's Mekhi Becton, Georgia's Andrew Thomas, Alabama's Jedrick Wills Jr. and Iowa's Tristan Wirfs -- are expected to be selected within the first 15 picks on April 23. The surprising part is that the order in which they will be picked varies depending on the team and individual.
ESPN talked with 11 evaluators (scouts, executives, coaches and analysts) and tabulated their rankings for the top four, with each first-place vote worth four points, a second-place vote worth three points and so on.
As the chart shows, Becton was our top-ranked tackle, edging Wills for first in total points with 32 and in first-place votes (5-4). The voting highlights how widely opinions vary when assessing the tackles at the top of this draft class.
For the teams at the top of the draft, beginning with the New York Giants at No. 4, there are options.
"What do you need the most out of that pick if it's going to be a tackle?" SEC Network analyst and former Auburn offensive lineman Cole Cubelic explained. "You tell me that and then you can answer that question of [how do you rank the tackles]."
The Giants aren't the Cleveland Browns, who have the No. 10 pick and need a left tackle ASAP. They aren't the Arizona Cardinals, who are at No. 8 and looking to fill a hole on the right side.
The Giants are in position to draft a tackle, start him on the right side or as a swing tackle, and then contemplate a move to the left side when Nate Solder (who turned 32 over the weekend) is gone. That leaves everybody on the table if the Giants don't trade down.
The New York Jets also have options. They are leaning toward offensive tackle with their first-round pick (No. 11 overall) even though they added four linemen in free agency.
It has been a long time since the Jets used a high pick on a lineman -- 2006, when they drafted D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold in the first round. Since 2007, they have made 21 picks in the top 50 overall, and not one was an offensive lineman. Every other team has taken at least two linemen in the top 50 over that span, according to Elias Sports Bureau research.
That could change with this year's options.
1. Mekhi Becton, Louisville
Mekhi Becton's 2020 NFL draft profile Mekhi Becton's 2020 NFL draft profile Check out highlights of former Louisville offensive lineman Mekhi Becton, who'll be someone to look out for in the upcoming draft.
What he would bring: Becton is a mountain of a man with capabilities above and beyond the other top tackles. The LeBron James of offensive tackles is how one evaluator described Becton physically. His ability to reach-block and drive defenders to the sideline is special. He can move, play with power and finish. He's the ultimate upside prospect after one standout season. After a mediocre 2018, Becton worked himself into shape and played like a top-10 pick under a new coach in 2019. If he keeps trending in this direction, someone might be getting a Hall of Fame-type player.
Giants fit: Becton could start at right tackle and eventually shift to become quarterback Daniel Jones' personal, long-term blindside protector. Becton played on both sides at Louisville. General manager Dave Gettleman has already said you could make the argument the No. 4 pick should have "gold jacket" potential. In that case, if the Giants don't trade back, Becton is the best option. He's the tackle who could produce greatness given his physical gifts. But Becton also comes with the most risk, which diminishes the chances he will be the Giants' pick.
Jets fit: The Jets would be nuts if they pass on Becton, who should be the No. 1 tackle on general manager Joe Douglas' draft board. What separates Becton from the rest is he can play left and right tackle, and his ceiling is higher than any of the other tackles in the draft. If they want to keep him at left tackle, where he played his final two seasons at Louisville, they could move recently signed George Fant to right tackle. Despite his size, Becton has the athletic ability to play in an outside zone scheme. He also can get to the perimeter on wide-receiver screens, a staple in coach Adam Gase's offense.
They said what?!
"Nobody can do what he does. They really can't. Where I had him a year [ago] was fourth or fifth round -- maybe take a chance on the guy. ... Now he does things on tape that nobody else can do. Physically they can't do." -- NFL scout
"He's an outlier because he brings that old-school size like Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Lincoln Kennedy with the new-school athletic skills of your 305 and 310 guy (his weight). And he's doing it at [6-foot-7], 360. We've never seen that before. There is nobody who really does that. Not even Trent Brown, who is almost 6-10, 400 pounds, moves like that." -- Duke Manyweather, Becton's trainer and an offensive line scouting and development consultant
"He's a human excavator. Has uncoachable traits, like his length, being 6-7, being 360 and being able to move the way he does. He has more flaws than Wirfs, Thomas or Wills, but he's raw." -- Cubelic
"It's ridiculous how good he can be. You don't have many people on this planet that are that big, that strong and that fast. ... We don't love his character. Just some lazy stuff, nothing major." -- NFL scout
"Trying to get around him is like orbiting the sun ... I believe he's going to get better. I don't believe he has reached his ceiling." -- Brian Baldinger, ex-NFL lineman and NFL Network analyst
2. Jedrick Wills Jr., Alabama
Jedrick Wills Jr.'s NFL draft profile Jedrick Wills Jr.'s NFL draft profile Watch some of the highlights that solidified former Alabama tackle Jedrick Wills Jr. as a first-round prospect.
What he would bring: Wills is a powerful right tackle and a force in the run game. He can slide in immediately, starting Day 1 and playing at a high level. Alabama coach Nick Saban talks glowingly about Wills, saying he's easy to coach, dependable and would fit into any culture. Saban even thinks Wills could successfully make the transition to left tackle. He doesn't come with much risk.
Giants fit: This is where the Saban-Joe Judge connection comes into play. The Giants already have former Alabama running backs coach Burton Burns on staff. He has seen what Wills can do and would likely provide another stamp of approval. Wills would be an ideal fit in an offense expected to be more run-heavy than most. No wonder the buzz on Wills to the Giants has been building in league circles. He would start on the right side and, depending on how things shake out over the next few seasons, potentially move to the left. Wills seems to be the most likely match for the Giants -- low risk, dependable and powerful.
Jets fit: Wills would be excellent value with the No. 11 pick. Just plug him in at right tackle and the Jets won't have to worry about that position for a long time. While some believe he could make the transition to the left side, the Jets wouldn't have to force it because they have Fant on the left. Wills is a terrific run blocker, something the Jets need. When running outside the right tackle, the Jets gained 4.2 yards per carry (ranked No. 24), per ESPN Stats & Information research. You have to believe running back Le'Veon Bell, who averaged a miserable 3.2 yards on all runs, would be in favor of a run-blocking right tackle.
They said what?!
"He's got some nasty to him. I like that." -- NFL scout
"If you want the best player and are not specifically saying you need left right now, Wills is your best bet in this draft. He's the most physical, plays with the most nasty. I think he has the best lower-body flexibility, and I think he's the most ready, instantly, to come in and impact what you're doing." -- Cubelic
"He's the most pro-ready of the group. He'll be a solid starter for a long time. I don't see a great one, but he'll be dependable. He's the safest. Just plug and play." -- NFL scout
"When he locks on to you, he doesn't get off you. He's a good finisher ... I believe he could be a left tackle or could slide inside. Everybody that has watched him and evaluated him doesn't think going to the left side would be a problem." -- Baldinger
"Can he play left? Probably. But it would be a disservice to him." -- Manyweather
3. Tristan Wirfs, Iowa
Tristan Wirfs' NFL draft profile Tristan Wirfs' NFL draft profile Check out some highlights from former Iowa offensive lineman Tristan Wirfs as he dominates in the trenches for the Hawkeyes.
What he would bring: Wirfs, 21, is the most athletic of this group. He showed that at the scouting combine, and it should come in handy against the NFL's speedy top-end pass-rushers. His work ethic is also unquestioned. Wirfs was sneaking in workouts at the YMCA in Indianapolis in the days leading up to his eye-opening combine performance. He played in a zone scheme at Iowa, primarily at right tackle, but played left tackle in three games last season and the bowl game his freshman season.
Giants fit: Wirfs is a strong fit and the favorite to be selected by the Giants, who have expressed strong interest from the start. He is a strong run blocker (which should help a team heavily committed to the run) and scheme-versatile, an important factor because the Giants want a multifaceted offense under Judge and coordinator Jason Garrett. Some evaluators think he could develop into an All-Pro guard.
Jets fit: There's a lot to like about Wirfs, arguably the most athletic tackle in the draft, but he's far from a finished product in terms of technique. Some scouts believe it will take him longer to reach his potential than Becton and Wills. That said, he would immediately become the most talented tackle on the Jets' roster. (The same could be said of all four prospects.) Wirfs could replace Chuma Edoga at right tackle, then move to left in 2021, if he's up to it and the circumstances permit. Some believe Wirfs has the ability to slide inside to guard, but the Jets addressed their guard situation in free agency.
They said what?!:
"He's a better athlete than I thought. Love the way he comes off the ball. He's got quickness, he's tough, he does everything you want him to do. He can play in every scheme." -- NFL scout
"Don't think you can go wrong with Wirfs. Think he's a little stiff. Lacks a little lower-body flexibility compared to Wills." -- Cubelic
"He's a high-caliber athlete. He stays square and plays with tremendous power. A mauler in [the] run game." -- Offensive line coach
"He doesn't use his hands as well as all the other guys. Your hands can get you out of trouble. All that [superior] testing at the combine, it doesn't show up on tape. You worry about how strong he is. He doesn't play as strong as the other guys." -- NFL scout
4. Andrew Thomas, Georgia
Andrew Thomas' NFL draft profile Andrew Thomas' NFL draft profile Check out highlights from former Georgia offensive lineman Andrew Thomas as he goes to work in the trenches.
What he would bring: Thomas is the most game-ready left tackle. He's ideal for a team that would want to throw him on the blind side on Day 1, even though he played his freshman season on the right side. Thomas is fundamentally sound, effective in the run game and as a pass-blocker. He's not known as the physical finisher, but he gets the job done.
Giants fit: He's another versatile tackle who can start on the right before eventually making his way to the other side of the line. Thomas makes sense in that he's a safe and dependable option. That fits the Giants, who can't afford another miss on their offensive line without putting Jones and their future at risk. There hasn't been much buzz connecting Thomas to the Giants, aside from some FaceTime sessions with the team.
Jets fit: Scouts are mixed on Thomas, whose pass-protection skills need to be refined. If Becton, Wills and Wirfs are off the board, and the decision comes down to Thomas versus the top wide receiver, the smart call would be the receiver. Thomas can play left and right tackle, and he'd bring some punch to the running game, but his footwork can get sloppy at times. He can't be ruled out because he has strong intangibles (Douglas is big on those) and big-time talent. The decision could come down to whether they believe he can be coached out of his technique issues.
They said what?!
"Yes, there are flaws. Sometimes he gets overextended. He doesn't have as much raw power as a Wirfs or a Wills. But I think he's the most game-ready, and he's the most battle-tested at left tackle. And he still gives you some athletic upside." -- Cubelic
"He's a safe bet. Very, very fundamentally sound. Run block, pass block -- he can do it all." -- NFL scout
"Not an ass kicker. You saw that with his strength in Indy." -- NFL coach
"He's got a lot of technique problems, but his size and movement are elite. I just feel like his technique is sloppy, but he's such a good athlete. His footwork is lazy at times. I'm not calling him lazy, but to be consistent at the NFL level, to be a Pro Bowl player -- because that's what you want [with a high pick] -- you want to draft a consistent, Pro Bowl-caliber player. He has that ability, but I believe he has to work a whole bunch on his technique." -- Baldinger
"I have no concerns. He's pretty special." -- NFL scout
I think Ezra Cleveland will be moving up the draft board. I could see us trading back to #16 with ATL (for a 2nd - #47 I believe) and drafting him at #16, if our highest rated player is not available at #10.
I think Ezra Cleveland will be moving up the draft board. I could see us trading back to #16 with ATL (for a 2nd - #47 I believe) and drafting him at #16, if our highest rated player is not available at #10.
Ugh.
That option sucks. Ezra Cleveland at 16. I'd hope none of the other tackles were available at 10
My top 2 guys are Andrew Thomas followed closely by Jedrick Wills and are the only 2 I would take at #10.
If we drop down to the Mid 1st I would target Josh Jones Late 1st early 2nd Austin Jackson late 2nd to mid 3rd - Pearth - the kid from UConn
I think Wirfs is a little overrated I think Becton is way overrated I think Cleveland would be an appropriate pick with our 2nd round pick but think he is rising and may go 1st round which is way to high. Plus if he is falling to our 2nd round pick teams are going to think that we are targeting him and if they want him trade up in front of us
Some of us on this board really like Voch Lombardi and his takes on the draft. Many liked his breakdown on Caleb Brantley. Earlier today, Voch put up a list of his top 12 offensive linemen. It's almost 31 minutes long, but it's a pretty solid ranking in my book.
Watch for yourself if you are looking for further education.
Pdawg, Thanks for posting that. Based on the article, here are my takeaways...
Becton - Based on what they wrote about him being lazy, attitude, and being considered a 4th-5th rounder until his "contract year", I give him a big NO THANK YOU. He sounds like a headache in the making. Hope someone falls in love with his physical gifts and spends one of the picks in front of us on him.
Wills - RT vs LT debate rages on with him. I like the line about him doing well right off the bat in a run-heavy offense. That's gonna be us.
Wirfs - Very athletic, which is what we'll need, but played RT instead of left. If you're going to ding Wills for this, why not Wirfs?
Thomas - A handful of the quotes were bagging on his technique. On here, people were saying he had the best technique of these top guys. Weird. It sounds to me like if we take anyone other than him at 10, we'll need to find someone (like a Peters) to man the LT position for a year or more.
Cleveland - Dig the name, but again, who's going to play LT this coming year?
Okay........I would not put too much stock into any one report. Read them all. Watch all the tape breakdowns. Look for things that are consistently stated.
For example, if you read a dude "has good feet" on about half the reports and the other half says "struggles w/footwork." Disregard that.
On the other hand, if almost every report says a guy has something like "plays with good balance," then it is more worthy of your consideration.
You can also refer to the OL thread in the PFF about which attributes are more important than others. This will help you make an more educated and informed opinion.
Some of us on this board really like Voch Lombardi and his takes on the draft. Many liked his breakdown on Caleb Brantley. Earlier today, Voch put up a list of his top 12 offensive linemen. It's almost 31 minutes long, but it's a pretty solid ranking in my book.
Watch for yourself if you are looking for further education.
Thanks for posting. I do like this guy's takes. I'll try and get a chance maybe tomorrow at lunchtime
They may be hard to find, but 6'6", 311# athletes that are actually good, NFL caliber football players are harder to find.
I think there's a solid chance he's the Bruce Campbell of this draft class.
Based on what?
Based on the hype mainly starting after the combine to go along with his underwhelming play on film. Rarely seems to get movement in the running game and frequently got walked back into his QB by guys that aren't that great.
Some of it could be due to the turf toe, but the 2019 tape isn't that good.
I'd have liked to see him dominate Mountain West competition if we're talking taking him in the first round at 16 or whatever after a trade down. He didn't really stand out in a good way.
I see him getting ragdolled by NFL power rushers if he's on the field at the beginning of his rookie season.
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio – The draft is a week away. The rumors are flying. One of them has me talking to myself.
QUESTION: Do you think the Browns would really skip a tackle in the first round?
ANSWER: Assuming they stay at No. 10, but I’m hearing rumors about Cleveland.
Q: Cleveland?
A: Ezra Cleveland, a tackle from Boise State.
Q: They’re going to take a kid from Boise State at No. 10?
A: Here is what Peter King (Football Morning In America) wrote: “How does (Browns GM Andrew) Berry not take one of the four hot-prospect tackles right here (No. 10)? ...One Browns-watcher on another team said Saturday. ‘But they love that Boise tackle, and maybe they think they can get him in the second round.’ What an apt pick: With the 41st overall pick in the 2020 NFL Draft, the Browns select Ezra Cleveland, tackle, Boise State.”
Q: So what do they they do in the first round?
A: This is where it gets interesting. The only way I’d skip a tackle at No. 10 is if Clemson linebacker/safety Isaiah Simmons drops down. My favorite tackles for the Browns are Iowa’s Tristan Wirfs and Georgia’s Andrew Thomas.
Q: Could they really get Simmons?
A: Daniel Jeremiah (NFL.com) is one of my favorite draft analysts. He has Simmons falling to the Browns in his latest mock draft.
Q: What about the Ezra Cleveland rumors?
A: Time for some research. Dane Brugler (The Athletic) has Cleveland rated as his No. 7 offensive tackle. Cleveland has played 40 games for Boise State, all at left tackle. He is 6-foot-6 and 311 pounds. He is smart “rarely fooled by blitzes or stunts." Brugler has him on the line between the first and second round.
Q: What would the Browns do at No. 10 if they want Cleveland?
A: That means they have decided against the four top tackles: Jedrick Wills Jr., Mekhi Becton, Andrew Thomas and Wirfs. Perhaps they are putting themselves in position to draft Simmons, if he falls. But that seems like a long shot.
Q: So what’s going on?
A: Here’s what Brugler told me: “The possibility of trading back and adding a day two (second or third round) pick or picks has to be appealing to a first-year front office as they build a team their way. But that’s especially true for an analytically-based team like the Browns.”
Q: Oh, boy...trading down. Can they afford to wait for Cleveland at No. 41 in the second round?
A: More Brugler: “The Browns have had their eye on Cleveland as a possible target in the (trade down) scenario. He tested extremely well, had great tape and has the football character you want in the locker room and community.”
Q: Tough, smart and accountable?
A: That’s the manta for Coach Kevin Stefanski and Berry. The knock against Cleveland is his lack of “core strength.” He doesn’t seem to be the elite physical specimen as the top tackles. “He’s more in the mold of Joe Thomas,” said Brugler. “Not the biggest. Not overpowering, but athletic and savvy."
Q: Did he just compare Cleveland to Thomas, who was the No. 3 pick in the 2007 draft, a future Hall of Famer?
A: No. He meant in terms of style as a comparison to someone such as the 6-foot-7 Becton from Louisville, who weighs 367 pounds. He’s not saying Cleveland is another Thomas.
Q: What does ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr. say?
A: In a mock draft, Kiper has Cleveland going to Tennessee with the No. 29 pick. But in his latest, he has Cleveland dropping to No. 58 and going to Minnesota. So who knows?
Q: So he’d could be gone by the second round?
A: That is why Brugler believes the Browns will trade down in the first round, grab Cleveland, and then add other picks.
Q: The Browns love analytics, what does Profootballfocus.com say about Cleveland?
A: The analytics rates him as the No. 7 tackle in the draft, the same as Brugler. Their top two are Thomas and Wirfs. They project Cleveland in the fourth round, “the frame lacks the strength you’d like in the lower half.”
Q: So the opinions on Cleveland are all over the place?
A: NFL.com’s Jeremiah doesn’t have him in his top 50. I’m not an expert on offensive tackles. But I do know this, something is going on with the Browns and possibly trading down. I just hope they don’t think too much and miss a chance to fix the left tackle spot with a guy they really want.
“He’s more in the mold of Joe Thomas,” said Brugler.
Has it been that long since JT played that folks are knocking him for not being a mauler in the running game?
It used to drive me nuts when people would say things like Joe Thomas is not a good run-blocker.
Some people speak without thinking.
I had a guy tell me in another place that Cleveland needs to bring it to the DL in pass protection.
LOL ... I think the proper technique is to hold your water with proper form (knees slightly bent with forward lean) and receive the DL, not lunging at said DL.
Cleveland does a good job of not committing himself too early. He can improve on the speed of his punch which well intern improve the force of energy in his punch, but his technique is text book.
IMO ... He is a perfect fit for our zone-scheme blocking, and yes I do believe that we will be a much improved offense with our new Head Coach's system, and I am hopeful that we can have a consistent system for the foreseeable future.
In conclusion I do not see one thing in his game that isn't correctable with good OL Coaching.
The young man played through pain most of last season, and was unable to practice during the week, so its not like it was a hang nail problem. *L*
Texas Tech 6-6, 312, 5.03 (Combine). Had a very good Senior Bowl. I do not have much further information, only enough to pique my interest. A mid-round pick...
Texas Tech 6-6, 312, 5.03 (Combine). Had a very good Senior Bowl. I do not have much further information, only enough to pique my interest. A mid-round pick...
I think the weigh-in was the highlight of his Senior Bowl and it was mostly downhill from there.
He's a project. Worth looking at, but I'm not sure I'd characterize his play in Mobile as "very good."
Has impressive length and adequate athleticism, but needs to get stronger and improve his technique. Getting stronger and improving technique is true of all OTs coming out, but he's probably better off more in the remedial class than intro to the NFL.
In a poll of 17 NFL executives and scouts by The Athletic's Bob McGinn, one scout said Boise State OT Ezra Cleveland reminded him of Packers LT David Bakhtiari and Chargers RT Bryan Bulaga.
Cleveland's buzz is building of late, as NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reported the Browns could be eyeing Cleveland in a trade-down scenario from No. 10 overall. Cleveland hasn't been mentioned in the same class as Mekhi Becton, Andrew Thomas, Tristan Wirfs, and Jedrick Wills, but it does sound like Cleveland has a shot to go in the first round. “He reminds me of some of the guys Green Bay has had over the years,” said the scout. “Bulaga, Bakhtiari, guys that kind of are just functional and get the job done. They’re not spectacular, just steady." Bakhtiari is one of the best left tackles in the sport. Cleveland (6'6/311) led all tackles in the 40-yard dash (4.97), Wonderlic (30), bench press (30), short shuttle (4.46), and three-cone (7.26) at the Combine.
We've talked a lot about the tackles, but I think we could also use some help at RG. Here are the top interior offensive linemen, per PFF:
2020 NFL Draft Position Rankings: Interior Offensive Linemen
1. Netane Muti, Fresno State
Draft Board Rank: 37th
Muti dabbled at tackle for Fresno State back in 2018 and played a rock-solid game and a half there before an Achilles tear ended his season. He came back to guard in 2019 and was similarly dominant through three games before a shoulder injury ended that season. The injury concerns are massive, but it's not as if they were related and recurring. Muti is pound for pound the most powerful guard in this class. He tosses defenders on a regular basis, and on 697 pass-blocking snaps for his career, Muti allowed only 14 pressures. That combination of power and pass-blocking proficiency is why he's OG1.
2. Jonah Jackson, Ohio State
Draft Board Rank: 40th
We are always going to love some pass protectors, and Jackson is as advanced in pass pro as any interior lineman in this class. You may know him better as the Rutgers player who actually graded well back in 2018. For his career, he's allowed only one lone sack or hit on 1,020 pass-blocking snaps, which speaks to arguably his greatest trait — not losing quickly. Even when he does allow pressure, Jackson is almost always still holding on for dear life and riding guys past the pocket. His hand usage is exceptional, and he plays with a balance unmatched in the draft class.
3. Cesar Ruiz, Michigan
Draft Board Rank: 43rd
The lone true junior on this list, Ruiz declared early because he's already shown all the physical tools needed to succeed at center in the NFL. He's so graceful for a 6-foot-4, 320-pound center that you often forget just how big he really is when watching his tape. He's still not quite a power player, though, as indicated by his 64.9 run-blocking grade from last year, but at only 20 years of age, he could still develop a good deal physically.
4. Damien Lewis, LSU
Draft Board Rank: 85th
Lewis was born to play guard in the NFL. At 6-foot-3, 332 pounds, Lewis looks as if he couldn't get under 300 pounds even if he trained for a marathon. He also looks like he wouldn't cede an inch on a bull-rush against a Mac truck. And he routinely didn't until Auburn's Derrick Brown came along. While Brown got him a couple of times in that game, the matchup was must-see TV for any trench-play enthusiast. Both got their nice wins in, and Lewis held up about as well as any guard did against Brown all season.
5. Tyler Biadasz, Wisconsin
Draft Board Rank: 87th
Biadasz has been one of the best run-blocking centers in the country for three straight seasons now. His lowest single-season run-blocking grade over that span was an 82.1 back in 2017. The reason why he dropped down our board from the beginning of the season has to do with his work in pass protection. We thought we'd see a lights-out year from the redshirt junior in 2019, but instead, Biadasz earned the lowest pass-blocking grade of his career at 70.5 and got taken off his feet far more often than we'd like. Biadasz has the size to play any position on the interior, even though he never played anything but center in three seasons at Wisconsin.
Biadasz has been one of the best run-blocking centers in the country for three straight seasons now. His lowest single-season run-blocking grade over that span was an 82.1 back in 2017. The reason why he dropped down our board from the beginning of the season has to do with his work in pass protection. We thought we'd see a lights-out year from the redshirt junior in 2019, but instead, Biadasz earned the lowest pass-blocking grade of his career at 70.5 and got taken off his feet far more often than we'd like. Biadasz has the size to play any position on the interior, even though he never played anything but center in three seasons at Wisconsin.
Okay. I only see two LT prospects worthy of a top 10 selection and even one of those I'm not sold on.
#1- Andrew Thomas, GA.
He is a natural LT who played high level competition. The match ups he played against were some of the best in the nation. While not perfect, he has shown he matches up well against top flight competition on a rather consistent basis in one of the top two conferences in the NCAA. One thing that most won't even try to debate is that the SEC is not only loaded in talent, they are certainly one of the fastest conferences in terms of team speed on defense. This will come in handy competing against that type of speed when playing opposing teams in the NFL.
#2- Jedrick Wills, AL.
I'm certainly not a huge proponent of drafting a guy in the top 10 that you have to depend on switching positions. That certainly wouldn't be my preference. But in this case I really have no choice but to make this exception. He did protect the blind side of a left handed QB so out of the other remaining candidates he's the best of what remains of the crop.
While it is true that he was somewhat of a standout at the combine, I do think several teams saw him as having the ability to make the switch to the LT position before the combine. Once again I will point to the speed of the SEC as a reason it may make the transition easier.
There are two other OT's out there many would consider as the #10 pick that I have ruled out and here is why.
Tristan Wirfs- Iowa
His transition to LT I believe is based more on his combine than his film. That is something I'm very weary of. I don't actually question his potential, or that someone may draft him very high. I do question his ability to pass block against fast edge rushers at the next level. He had some trouble against quality pass rushers that I consider weaker than those who my above picks had success against.
Mekhi Becton- Louisville
I believe that Becton is rated so highly by many due to his freakish athleticism and that nasty buzz word, "upside". Potential more than results. The ACC certainly does not provide the level of competition that either the SEC or Big 10 provide with which to evaluate a player. Not to say you can't find a quality NFL LT there, but the ability to actually see how a player would fair on a week to week basis against much stroner competition is surely lacking. Especially as someone who is nothing more than a fan such as myself.
Combine that with possible weight and work ethics issues, whether more perceived than real or not, those question marks alone, combined with my above mentioned issues certainly drop him below the top 10 in my opinion.
Now I could be more detailed in my analysis but as it stands, the points above suffice for me at the present time. I'm certainly not an expert nor do I make a living doing this. But as it pertains to the LT position in the draft I have a pretty fair track record.
But as with any other fan we'll just have to see how this all plays out. If we do select one of the two players I have eliminated from my #10 slot, along with everyone else I will certainly hope my evaluations were wrong.
Thanks for the video. I'm still not sold on him due to short(er) arm length and small hands. I'd pass, but what do I know?
If you look at the bottom of that link, there's a button that will show his closest physical comparisons. Garrett Bolles is the closest match. I think whoever drafts Cleveland will feel disappointment similar to the Broncos with Bolles, especially if he's taken early and forced into action. People get caught up in the athleticism/feet. Not enough time on his anchor and actual blocking/technique.
Thanks for the video. I'm still not sold on him due to short(er) arm length and small hands. I'd pass, but what do I know?
If you look at the bottom of that link, there's a button that will show his closest physical comparisons. Garrett Bolles is the closest match. I think whoever drafts Cleveland will feel disappointment similar to the Broncos with Bolles, especially if he's taken early and forced into action. People get caught up in the athleticism/feet. Not enough time on his anchor and actual blocking/technique.
I disagree, and you are being disingenuous, Bolles was only one comparison. So naturally you went with him as yours, but I like the Taylor Lewan comp. Better.
To each their own
His blocking technique is good. His anchor needs some work, (and some of it can be attributed to his injury.) But it is not as bad as some want to make it out to be either.
There is not one prospect in this or any other Draft does not have things that need improving on.
If you do not meet the athletic threshold then you have little chance transitioning.
yeha if you can read between the lines...I do not want him. Once I read the words "LAZY" as part of his character I didn't want him.
But just starting to whip up some lemonade as I don't criticize our picks until they show their colors with a history in the NFL. I always like them cause they are now BROWNS. So I know people will only remember the kind words I state about Becton when he becomes a Brown and try to use those words to discredit. But read me before the draft. I came out and stated out of the 4 he is the only one that I DO NOT WANT on our team and stated why. We can coach up talent but not when they have a LAZY Character under them.
Question is - is it true? Did we interview him? Do we have an inkling of who he really is???
So for me its been Wirfs, Wills and Thomas - I'm pretty sure Thomas will be the guy we have to chose from. I wonder if all these reports of Okudah Dropping are true???
yeha if you can read between the lines...I do not want him. Once I read the words "LAZY" as part of his character I didn't want him.
But just starting to whip up some lemonade as I don't criticize our picks until they show their colors with a history in the NFL. I always like them cause they are now BROWNS. So I know people will only remember the kind words I state about Becton when he becomes a Brown and try to use those words to discredit. But read me before the draft. I came out and stated out of the 4 he is the only one that I DO NOT WANT on our team and stated why. We can coach up talent but not when they have a LAZY Character under them.
Question is - is it true? Did we interview him? Do we have an inkling of who he really is???
So for me its been Wirfs, Wills and Thomas - I'm pretty sure Thomas will be the guy we have to chose from. I wonder if all these reports of Okudah Dropping are true???
I don't foresee Okudah falling to us at ten.
I have a good hunch that Thomas will be available at ten.
Thanks for the video. I'm still not sold on him due to short(er) arm length and small hands. I'd pass, but what do I know?
If you look at the bottom of that link, there's a button that will show his closest physical comparisons. Garrett Bolles is the closest match. I think whoever drafts Cleveland will feel disappointment similar to the Broncos with Bolles, especially if he's taken early and forced into action. People get caught up in the athleticism/feet. Not enough time on his anchor and actual blocking/technique.
I disagree, and you are being disingenuous, Bolles was only one comparison. So naturally you went with him as yours, but I like the Taylor Lewan comp. Better.
To each their own
His blocking technique is good. His anchor needs some work, (and some of it can be attributed to his injury.) But it is not as bad as some want to make it out to be either.
There is not one prospect in this or any other Draft does not have things that need improving on.
If you do not meet the athletic threshold then you have little chance transitioning.
That is not the case with Ezra Cleveland.
Disingenuous? I didn't post the article. Look at the mockdraftable box towards the bottom of the article. Click comparisons. Bolles has the highest percentage match by the testing numbers. I didn't just pull it out of thin air.
I've said in other threads that they all need to improve as well. I'm not sure that Cleveland can overcome his tiny (by OL standards, 2nd percentile) hands. They show up on tape. He has trouble maintaining control.
Being a great athlete isn't enough. It's not just WRs that need good hands at their position. Ezra is kind of the Carlton Mitchell of OL to me. He looks the part, has the measurables, but just fails to finish the job too often. Fortunately for Cleveland, the rest of his OL was bad enough that he looked great in comparison and the NFL is desperate for OTs.
Maybe he can overcome it, but I wouldn't bet a pick on it until day 3.
NBC Sports' Peter King reports the Chargers have "loved" Georgia LT Andrew Thomas "throughout the fall and winter."
In King's mock draft, he has the Dolphins selecting Justin Herbert and the Chargers passing on Tua Tagovailoa for Thomas, who has drawn interest from "several teams in the top 10" per NFL Network's Ian Rapoport. King admits he doesn't know what the Chargers will do if Tagovailoa is available at No. 6, but the drum continues to beat for Thomas as a potential top-10 selection. In fact, King notes that Thomas is the Browns' "preferred" pick at 10th overall. Expect Thomas, Jedrick Wills, Tristan Wirfs, and Mekhi Becton to be selected in the first half of Round 1 this Thursday.
RELATED: Los Angeles Chargers SOURCE: NBC Sports Apr 20, 2020, 2:05 AM ET
I've stayed out of the debate on whether it's a big deal or not to switch from RT to LT - I don't know enough to have an opinion. I did see and agree that there is a mental component to playing on the blindside ... that I do see and think some players will handle better than others.
Along with everyone else I love JT - I think it's very hard not too see this and not give it good consideration in this debate.
Joe Thomas ✔ @joethomas73 I think you made my point, switching sides when you go from College to Pros is a non-issue... I have zero experience as a GM, but I know what I'm talking about with switching sides of the OL https://twitter.com/R1stCLE/status/1252048276716687360 …
I'm looking forward to the draft for obvious reasons and also so some of these mocks are over with. LOL
Although I have my favorites, I personally don't do them. They can be fun and entertaining and, yes, the outcome can be outrageous. Whatever turns your crank...
Where does Austin Jackson figure in Browns’ clear view of draft-board tackle rankings
By Steve Doerschuk Posted Apr 21, 2020 at 8:47 AM
USC tackle Austin Jackson (73) reflects with head coach Clay Helton after helping the Trojans to a win less than two months after a three-hour operation in which he transferred bone marrow to his sister. (Kirby Lee-USA TODAY Sports)▲ The former USC’s star is a name to watch, as a Hall of Fame GM’s almost comical ranking of tackle prospects could reflect serious consideration by the Browns to trade the No. 10 pick.
This is no re-run of "Browns Sounds of Spring," circa 2019.
The choir of voices is so different this April, and not just because "rehearsals" are on Zoom, not in Berea, because of COVID-19.
John Dorsey's finger was on the draft button last spring. Now, it is Andrew Berry's. Conspicuous lineup changes include head coach (Freddie Kitchens to Kevin Stefanski), offensive coordinator (Todd Monken to Alex Van Pelt), and offensive line coach (James Campen to Bill Callahan).
With offensive tackle held forth as the biggest need, Hall of Fame GM Gil Brandt's "Hot 150" is almost comical as it pertains to Cleveland's scheduled pick at No. 10.
Brandt's top-rated tackles are Alabama's Jedrick Willis at No. 7 overall, Iowa's Tristan Wirfs at No. 8, Georgia's Andrew Thomas at No. 9 and Louisville's Mekhi Becton at No. 10.
Berry might add USC's Austin Jackson, ranked 19th overall by Brandt, as an acceptable option.
The Class of 2020 might be so full of good tackles that a couple will slide well outside the top 10. NFL.com draftnik Chad Reuter has the Browns trading from No. 10 (where the Saints would take QB Jordan Love) to No. 24, where Jackson would be the pick.
In a Monday Zoom session with beat writers, Berry would only say "tons of hours" invested by his staff have produced a "clear mind" on Cleveland's tackle rankings.
Berry warns that rookies seldom excel right out of the gate. One exception was Joe Thomas, who played every down at left tackle on the last Browns team to post a winning season (2007).
Last year's draft exemplifies how pre-draft rankings go away once tackles hit the field ... or don't.
The first O-lineman picked, by Cincinnati at No. 11, was Alabama left tackle Jonah Williams. He suffered a torn labrum in spring practice and sat out the season. The next, at No. 22 to Philadelphia (Berry's team at the time) was Washington State left tackle Andre Dillard. He made four starts.
The third to go, Alabama State left tackle Tytus Howard by the Texans at No. 23, played every down and was not charged with a sack after Game 6.
Otherwise, Berry might conclude the Browns can trade up from their second pick, at No. 41, and secure a good tackle who drops. The USC guy, Jackson, is an interesting possibility.
Former Browns scout Daniel Jeremiah of NFL Network sees Jackson as the 28th-best player in the draft, with top-15 potential.
Jeremiah's scouting notes:
"Intriguing blend of size and athleticism, with endless upside ... People may be sleeping on him ... Only 20 years old ... Overall play strength needs to improve, but he is tantalizing."
Jeremiah's top five tackles are Becton (No. 7), Wills (No. 10), Wirfs (No. 13), Thomas (No. 18), Jackson (No. 28). He ranks Houston's Joshua Jones at No. 39 and Boise State's Ezra Cleveland (a Brandt favorite) at No. 53.
Jackson's school, USC, has a history of churning out tackles. In addition to Hall of Famer Anthony Munoz, a first-round pick in 1980, Trojan tackles drafted in Round 1 include Keith Van Horne (1981), Don Mosebar (1983), Ken Ruettgers (1985), James Fitzpatrick (1986), Dave Cadigan (1988), Pat Harlow (1991), Tony Boselli (1995), John Michels (1996), Sam Baker (2008), Tyron Smith (2011) and Matt Kalil (2012).
Jackson grew up in Phoenix as a two-way lineman who on defense made 29 tackles for loss as a high school senior. He chose USC in part because his grandfather, Melvin Jackson, played on the Trojans' 1974 national championship team prior to a career with the Packers.
Jackson played as a true freshman in 2017 and started at left tackle in 2018. Life got complicated when he emerged as the donor of blood marrow for his younger sister, Autumn. The good news was that transferring 1.4 liters of marrow from the back of his hip was a godsend to his sister.
The flip side was the procedure was delayed until last July. He lost a month of training and began his pivotal 2019 season in a weakened condition before getting in a groove.
His USC position coach, Tim Drevno (a former Michigan offensive coordinator) notes Jackson never missed a practice, fought through the season, and should be graded on a curve by NFL scouts.
USC went 8-5 in 2019, posting September wins over No. 23 Stanford and No. 10 Utah, later going on a 5-1 hot streak before losing a bowl game to Iowa.
Jackson dismisses any heroic element to donating his marrow, saying, "Wouldn't everybody do it for their little sister?"
NFL Network analyst Lance Zierlein sees Jackson as "raw but gifted, with "true left tackle traits."
The Browns' highest expansion-era picks out of USC were Daylon McCutcheon and Cody Kessler, third-rounders in 1999 and 2016. Notable picks from the past include Chip Banks, Clay Matthews and Charles White.
Cleveland hasn't drafted an offensive lineman from USC since 1973, when Pete Adams was a No. 22 overall pick who had been a teammate of Jackson's grandfather.
Of perhaps going to his grandpa's NFL team, Green Bay, Jackson says, "It'd be nice," but he adds, "Whoever drafts me ... that's where I'll be happy."
I went looking and didn't see Becton taken as the first OT like I thought. Maybe it was just a couple of places and it stuck with me as a real stretch.
I won't be one bit surprised if we make a deal with the Skins for Williams. Say maybe a 2nd or a 3rd, or a 3rd and a swapping of positions in another round.
Washington wants to get out from under him, and his price has dropped dramatically. this allows us to trade back a few places and get more value, and this draft seems to have a big talent drop after the 1st 7 picks.
I think if we can get the deal done for Willaims we move back in the 1st rd. We will just have to wait and see.
If we can't get a deal done for Willaims i think we make a selection at 10, just not sure who.
I think Jake Burns lets his bias show through a little. He's gushing over Josh Jones and then says the Browns might trade down for him when he presented a much more balanced critique of the other guys.
But I'm really posting because this is such a good draft class for learning about Oline play. With so many top prospects, you can't avoid watching videos of good/bad play along the line.
I think Jake Burns lets his bias show through a little. He's gushing over Josh Jones and then says the Browns might trade down for him when he presented a much more balanced critique of the other guys.
But I'm really posting because this is such a good draft class for learning about Oline play. With so many top prospects, you can't avoid watching videos of good/bad play along the line.
Yes to a degree he did, but he did point out some obvious flaws in each of their games.
I thought that it was a pretty balanced critique ... and I pointed out the balance issues with Thomas previously too. Thomas was well coached by Howard Mudd and he benefited from that this past year.
He pointed out Wirfs susceptibility to the inside pressure, which is the main reason why he is projected to start off at OG, but many have later transitioned to OT ... (some if these names will be familiar)
Tony Jones started off at RG before moving to LT ... Paul Farren before him started off at LG and moved to LT, so he could still become a LT down the road...
My preference for LT after reading write ups and watching some tape are:
Thomas - He may not have quite as high of a ceiling as Becton but his floor is a lot higher and he's the most NFL ready.
Wills - Like him almost as much as Thomas but you can never be 100% sure on guys switching sides being able to adjust. Probably should be my 1A.
Jones - I think he will be solid, just not as good as Thomas or Wills.
Becton - I see him having the highest ceiling but also being the biggest bust potential. Weight is a concern and looks to dominate an opponent so much that he gets himself out of position as he is not patient to allow the blocks to come to him.
Cleveland - Don't see him being anything more then solid, and needs to work on his hand punch. Can get bull rushed do to balance issues caused by a narrow base.
Jackson - Could end up being the best of the lot but also needs the most work as right now he just fits the bill physically (Tall, long arms, athletic) needs at least 2 years of development before he can handle a starting LT spot.
Wirfs - I just don't see him as a LT, would make an outstanding OG. Reminds me of Brandon Scherff
I went looking and didn't see Becton taken as the first OT like I thought. Maybe it was just a couple of places and it stuck with me as a real stretch.
He is the first OT taken in several Mocks as you first stated. I know I saw the Giants taking him in one Mock.
I think it would be great if he is taken 1st or 2nd before our pick cause that would bring Wills to us and I think he is the guy we are targeting.
It seems like every mock has all the top OL prospects going to different teams and in a different order.
Rank your Top 5 OL prospects in this thread.
I think that all of these OL prospects could be day #1 starters in the NFL. My list is below.
My list is based on how I think each player could have an immediate impact next year. While players like Wirfs and Becton may have the most potential, they also seem to be more project type players in year #1 or #2.
1. Jedrick Wills Jr. 2. Andrew Thomas 3. Tristan Wirfs 4. Josh Jones 5. Mekhi Becton
What is your top 5?
I wonder how similar my list was to Berry's. Maybe Becton and Jones flipped.
...lol
