That argument is why I will always consider Manning better.
Tom Brady wasn't "Tom Brady" his first 4-5 years.. He was a game manager that had one of the best defenses in the league..
Starting in 2001 (Brady's first year as a starter) he averaged 25 TDs, 13Ints, 3600 yds. and 509 passes per year. I'd say that's a lot better than game manager.
link:
http://www.nfl.com/player/tombrady/2504211/careerstats I'd say that's literally the definition if a game manager..
Hoyer through the first 8 weeks of 2014 (peak game manager mode) had 2014 yards, 10 tds, and 4 int..
Double that for a full season and you have 4000 yards, 20 tds, and 8 ints...
Just saying.
The difference between elite and game manager is about a lot more than total numbers. When the game is on the line do you lead the game winning drive? When the defense takes away what you wanted to do, can you do something else and still win? (Hoyer couldn't)
Brady has won with great defenses, he's won with very questionable defenses, he's won with great running games, he's won with minimal running games, he's won with talented WRs, he's won with off-the-street WRs, he's won throwing it 45 times, he's won throwing it 18 times, he's won in the heat, the snow, and in domes, he's won in the regular season, the playoffs, and the super bowl in a variety of ways.
Of the 5 super bowls that the 49ers won with Montana and Young, their defenses ranked in scoring... 2, 1, 8, 3, 6... so it's safe to say that without great defenses, Montana and Young would have less rings as well. Maybe Joe Montana isn't an elite QB either...
Aikmans 3 super bowls, scoring defense ranked 5, 2, 3... not elite either I suppose.
The fact that even great QBs win more super bowls and playoff games with better defenses shouldn't be a shock to anybody and it does nothing to diminish their ability as QBs