MLB "Hot Stove League" thread

Posted by: Dave

MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/28/19 04:34 PM

With the World Series possibly down to its last game, the MLB off-season is about to begin. Post your trade rumors, transactions, etc, here.

**********

For starters, MLB.com is reporting that the Dodgers will pursue the Indians' Francisco Lindor this off-season. The names being discussed are expected be from a group of Dodgers' prospects including SS Gavin Luxe, RHP Dustin Mays, C Keibert Ruiz, RHP Josiah Gray, and SS Jeter Downs. Current Dodger SS Corey Seager could also be involved.

https://www.mlb.com/news/sources-dodgers-pursuing-francisco-lindor
Posted by: Jester

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/28/19 07:51 PM

I would much prefer to sign Lindor to a long term contract but if we were to trade him the LA Dodgers would be the way to go. They have a lot of really good young talent and a very very deep and talented minor league system.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/28/19 08:04 PM

I wish Lindor could be an Indian for his entire career, but the Indians can't pay one guy $35M per year for 10-12 years, nor should they. By most accounts, they can maximize their return for Lindor by trading him this off-season, because the team that gets him would have control for 2 years, and the inside track to sign him long term, providing they have the financial wherewithal to do so. Which the Dodgers most definitely do.

But if we do trade Lindor now we need to get back a haul, take someone to the cleaners, or else I'd rather keep him for one more year and go for it all in 2020.
Posted by: RocketOptimist

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/29/19 01:54 AM

We need a fire sale and for the Dolans to sell the team.
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/29/19 07:00 AM

Itíll be a shame to see Lindor in a Dodgers jersey
Posted by: dawg66

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/29/19 10:07 AM

Well the President and the GM of my Reds both said that there will be a nice increase in the Reds payroll next year so that's good news. They got to find a lead-off hitter and some bullpen help.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/31/19 01:46 PM

j/c...


Posted by: ExclDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/31/19 03:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
I wish Lindor could be an Indian for his entire career, but the Indians can't pay one guy $35M per year for 10-12 years, nor should they. By most accounts, they can maximize their return for Lindor by trading him this off-season, because the team that gets him would have control for 2 years, and the inside track to sign him long term, providing they have the financial wherewithal to do so. Which the Dodgers most definitely do.

But if we do trade Lindor now we need to get back a haul, take someone to the cleaners, or else I'd rather keep him for one more year and go for it all in 2020.


Just look at the Angels, Phillies and Padres as to what happens when you sign position players to big time contracts. Actually, looking at the list of "top earners" in MLB, you have to go all the way down to Giancarlo Stanton at (10th-14th depending on the website) before you find a position player that made the playoffs this year. And even Yankee fans think he's not living up to that contract. Next highest is Josh Donaldson at #20.

Pitching is what you have to pay for. Number 1 and 2 on the list? World Series Champions Strasburg and Scherzer, who Washington elected to pay instead of Bryce Harper.
Posted by: FATE

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/31/19 03:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
I wish Lindor could be an Indian for his entire career, but the Indians can't pay one guy $35M per year for 10-12 years, nor should they. By most accounts, they can maximize their return for Lindor by trading him this off-season, because the team that gets him would have control for 2 years, and the inside track to sign him long term, providing they have the financial wherewithal to do so. Which the Dodgers most definitely do.

But if we do trade Lindor now we need to get back a haul, take someone to the cleaners, or else I'd rather keep him for one more year and go for it all in 2020.

Gotta go one more year while the window is still open...
A. The difference in compensation wouldn't change much.
B. Winning the series could be the one wildcard that would entice him to stay.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/31/19 05:41 PM

I agree with you. A couple baseball axioms that come to mind ... (1) when you think you have all the pitching anyone could want, you need more pitching, and (2) good pitching always beats good hitting.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 10/31/19 05:51 PM

Quote:
Gotta go one more year while the window is still open...


Actually, I think the Indians "window" goes well beyond 2020. They might (probably will) lose Kluber after 2020, but they'll still have Clevenger, Bieber, Carrasco ( fingerscrossed ), Civale, Plesac, and Plutko, along with a good group of prospects coming up soon. Our front office seems to have become very good at developing young pitching. Its a really good turn of events that bodes well for the future.
Posted by: Ballpeen

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/01/19 08:13 AM

I agree. Sink your money in to pitching.
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/01/19 08:33 AM

J/c

Itíll be interesting to see what the Astros do here ... they are set to lose a few key parts IIRC
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/01/19 09:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

Itíll be interesting to see what the Astros do here ... they are set to lose a few key parts IIRC


Gerrit Cole is a free agent. I read that during a post game interview in the locker room, he took off his Astros hat and put on a hat with the logo of his agent, Scott Boros, stating that he was now technically unemployed. A real class act ...
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/01/19 09:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
J/c

Itíll be interesting to see what the Astros do here ... they are set to lose a few key parts IIRC


Gerrit Cole is a free agent. I read that during a post game interview in the locker room, he took off his Astros hat and put on a hat with the logo of his agent, Scott Boros, stating that he was now technically unemployed. A real class act ...
hadnít read that ... thatís a shame
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/01/19 01:51 PM

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/01/19 01:54 PM

Indians: Corey Kluber officially back for 2020 season, for now

https://believelandball.com/2019/11/01/indians-corey-kluber-officially-back-2020-season-now/

The Cleveland Indians have officially exercised Corey Kluberís 2020 option. His name still could come up in trade talks this offseason.
There was no guessing whether or not the Cleveland Indians were going to pick up Corey KluberĎs 2020 option.

The team said it was going to happen, but the news just recently became official.

Pour one out for Jason Kipnis.

Kluber is set to make $17.5 million this season and has an $18 million club option for 2021. The fact he is under team control through 2021 may have some teams calling about a potential trade this offseason. If he isnít traded, I suspect the calls will continue up until the trade deadline.

The Indians are in an interesting spot. What happens with Francisco Lindor essentially signals which direction the team will go. If it is clear an extension with him is impossible, his name could come up in trade rumors during the season. If that is the case, moving Kluber and just stockpiling talent could be a move to prevent a massive rebuild that would occur if both players leave with nothing in return.

Losing Lindor would be crushing. But trading Kluber may not have a similar negative effect. He missed nearly all of last season and the rotation never skipped a beat. Guys like Aaron Civale and Zach Plesac still need to prove themselves over a larger sample, but the initial signs were positive.

Then there is the trio of Shane Bieber, Carlos Carrasco, and Mike Clevinger. Put those three up against any other starting trio. Adding Kluber back to the mix is like a bonus.

Trading star players is no fun. Fans are attached and the players have done great things for the team. However, if Kluber is set to be in a declining stage of his career the Indians would be smart to move him.

That is on the team to get a good feel of where he is heading into 2020.
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/01/19 02:32 PM

Good for us and Kluber!
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/04/19 03:23 PM

Posted by: Jester

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/04/19 05:01 PM

Surprised by Tyler Olson
A lefty reliever with some promise
Had a good showing a year ago
Not so great this year but I thought there was an injury issue
Even if not, I still think too soon to give up on him
especially with as much help as our bullpen needs
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/07/19 10:28 PM

Posted by: ExclDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/08/19 12:33 PM

In award news, Roberto Perez won a Gold Glove for catching, and also the Wilson Defensive Player of the Year award (which is separate from GGs). Lindor also won a Gold Glove for Shortstop. I read that Perez didn't have a passed ball all year, which hasn't happened since the 1930's. That's nuts!
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/08/19 01:51 PM

I know that there were a lot of people, myself included, who were worried when the Indians traded Yan Gomes.

I really questioned the Indians over that one ...... and they showed that they knew better than I.

Congratulations Roberto. Well deserved.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/12/19 03:37 PM

Astros used electronic sign-stealing method during title-winning 2017 season, report says

A former Houston player spoke out against an issue that appears to be widespread in baseball

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/astro...on-report-says/

Major League Baseball rules do not allow teams to use electronic technology to steal signs from the catcher and then relay what pitch is coming to the hitter. But there is an ongoing issue in the league with teams stealing signs electronically, according to a report from The Athletic on Tuesday.

While this issue stretches beyond any one team, the Astros are the club most implicated in the report. Many examples in the story come from 2017, when they won the World Series. Former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers spoke on the record about Houston's sign-stealing system at Minute Maid Park, which included a TV monitor with a feed from a center field camera near the dugout steps. Astros players would try to decode their opponents' signs and then alert hitters if an off-speed pitch was coming by banging on a dugout trash can, per the report.

Fiers, who pitched for the Astros from 2015-17, said his former team was "advanced and willing to go above and beyond to win." Here's more:

"That's not playing the game the right way," said Fiers.

[...]

"I just want the game to be cleaned up a little bit because there are guys who are losing their jobs because they're going in there not knowing," Fiers said. "Young guys getting hit around in the first couple of innings starting a game, and then they get sent down. It's (B.S.) on that end. It's ruining jobs for younger guys. The guys who know are more prepared. But most people don't. That's why I told my team. We had a lot of young guys with Detroit (in 2018) trying to make a name and establish themselves. I wanted to help them out and say, 'Hey, this stuff really does go on. Just be prepared.'"

Former MLB pitcher Danny Farquhar also went on the record with The Athletic. Farquhar, who pitched for the White Sox in 2017, recalled how he noticed a banging in the Astros dugout when his catcher called for a changeup. Sure enough, video from a Farquhar appearance backs up his claim (hat-tip to DBITLefty on Twitter for the excellent find):

Remember, there were allegations against the Astros this postseason about whistling when an off-speed pitch was coming.

But this issue isn't just limited to the Astros. The Red Sox and Yankees have dealt with allegations as well. The story makes it clear that most teams in baseball believe the Astros go further than any other team, but this piece is important, too:


One Astros source was adamant: The team should not become the poster child for sign stealing. Not when so much is going on with other clubs that MLB has not stopped, they said.

The Astros lost the World Series in seven games after a franchise-record 107 win regular-season in 2019. In fact, three of their four highest win totals ever have come in the past three years, a stretch that includes their first World Series title and two pennants. Of course, their playoff run was marred a major off-field issue, as assistant general manager Brandon Taubman's was fired after harassing female reporters in the clubhouse. MLB is investigating Taubman, and the league could expand that inquiry into the franchise's sign stealing, according to The Athletic.

Expect the issue of high-tech sign stealing to be a key point of discussion this offseason for Major League Baseball.

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/12/19 03:43 PM

Sry had to delete tweet for language.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/12/19 04:38 PM

Astros need to face some severe sanctions for this, like lost draft picks, suspensions, or a very large fine, or a combination of the three things. I guess we'll see whether Commissioner Rob Manfred is as big a lame-o as I think he is.
Posted by: Spergon FTWynn

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/12/19 06:43 PM

I saw the breakdown with the can banging, that is CRAZY! lol

if you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin

something a little icky about the use of monitors though.

I think if a runner on second is stealing signs, that's fair game, but when you involve electronics, I think you have a real problem.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/21/19 12:24 PM



The #Whitesox say this is just the start of an aggressive winter in hopes of making a playoff push
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/21/19 12:57 PM

There can be only one lovable loser in Chicago, and while the Cubs have been over .500 for the past 5 years, they have been the team that could get away with it ..... while the Sox have been under .500 for the past 7, and they cannot get away with it.
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/22/19 07:38 AM

Sox shouldnít be as bad as they are considering their resources and what they had with trade assets
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/22/19 12:54 PM

New Royals owner John Sherman was reportedly in line to purchase Cleveland Indians

Nov 21, 2019
By Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- John Sherman, a minority owner of the Indians since 2016, has become one of their competitors. Reportedly, he was in line to become their owner as well.

Shermanís $1 billion purchase of the Kansas City Royals was approved by a unanimous vote from MLB owners on Thursday at their meetings in Arlington, Tex. The Royals and Indians are rivals in the AL Central.

A statement by Indians owner Paul Dolan says Shermanís minority shares in the Indians will be placed in ďa trust that is controlled by an independent trusteeĒ until Sherman is able to sell them.

Dolan added in his statement, "Moving forward, this transition will not alter our organizationís operational approach. We remain committed to our pursuit of winning the World Series, while creating a compelling fan experience.Ē

The Kansas City Star reported that Sherman, according to MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred, originally joined the Indians ownership group with the idea of becoming the controlling partner. But he gave that up to purchase the Royals.

An Indians spokesman said the team had no comment when asked about that report.

Sherman made his fortune in natural gas while working in Kansas City. Sherman purchased the Royals from David Glass. When Glass bought the Royals in 2000, he paid $96 million, according to Bob Nightengale of Sports Illustrated.

Dolan, after a long search for a minority owner, sold part of the Indians to Sherman in 2016. Shermanís cash influx helped the Indians sign free agent DH Edwin Encarnacion to a three-year, $60 million deal after the Indians reached the World Series that year.

The 2019 season marked the 20th year that the Dolan family has owned the Indians. Paul Dolan has been the primary control person of the franchise since January, 2013.

The Royals won the World Series in 2015, but theyíve struggled since. They just finished the 2019 season at 59-103, 42 games behind the AL Central champion Twins.

ďIím deeply appreciative of the commissionerís office and my fellow owners for their confidence and trust in the vote today,Ē Sherman told reporters at after the purchase was approved. ďItís a responsibility that Iíll take very seriously.Ē

Said Dolan, ďWe want to congratulate John and his group on officially becoming majority owners of their hometown Kansas City Royals.Ē


https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2019/11/...mlb-owners.html
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/22/19 05:51 PM

Not a bad return for the owner of the Royals .....

Paid $96 million in 2000, and sells for $1 billion in 2020. (ish)
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/22/19 06:58 PM

I'm guessing the Dolan family was looking for $1.3-1.4B for the Indians. Forbes lists their value at $1.2B and the Dolan's paid $320M for them in '99. They are, unfortunately for us, equity-rich but cash-poor.

https://www.forbes.com/teams/cleveland-indians/#38b263436ef3
Posted by: bonefish

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/25/19 06:52 PM


Lindor is a cornerstone player.

Sinful to trade him.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/25/19 06:59 PM

Originally Posted By: bonefish

Lindor is a cornerstone player.

Sinful to trade him.


If you can't afford to keep him, it would be "sinful" not to maximize what you could get in return for him in a trade. The only question is whether that would be now or at the trade deadline next July. I think it would be now.
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/25/19 07:14 PM

They better get an all time haul if they trade him before the season.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/25/19 08:03 PM

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
They better get an all time haul if they trade him before the season.


I don't think the Bartolo Colon for Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips type deals happen any more because the market for Lindor is restricted by the relatively few teams that are willing and able to sign him for the more than $35M per year he will command. But unless the Indians are willing to keep him, pay him, and then lose him to free agency after the 2022 season, it stands to reason that the best time to optimize the return for him is now because any team that trades for him now will at least have him for 2 full seasons.
Posted by: bonefish

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/25/19 09:11 PM


A sad fact of the financial structure of Baseball.

The big market rich teams feed on the weak.

It is the part of baseball that is really frustrating. I love Baseball. Think it is the greatest game devised by man.

But I hate that some teams start every year with little to no chance of competing. That a team finds, then develops a player and can not afford to keep him.

It destroys the fiber of the fans relationship to his team. You want guys like Chipper Jones to play their whole career with one team. It is good for the game.

Lindor will get moved. Sicking to think he could a Yankee or Dodger.

Posted by: cfrs15

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/26/19 04:07 PM

Yeah the big market Twins really beat up on the Indians last year.

Maybe the Indians should spend money on players rather than pocketing money. Cleveland was in their sweet spot of competing and instead of spending they were trying to trade away players all off-season and went into the season with a horrible outfield.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/26/19 05:00 PM

Not signing Brantley was a failure by the Tribe FO. They stuck w/ him all throughout his injuries and bailed when he was hit FA.

The big marquee bat signings (Harper, Machado, Stanton, Cespedes) haven't really proven to be successful so far or have been major difference makers. Pitching still wins for the most part.

I doubt the Indians, under the Dolans, will ever pony up the cash for Lindor unless they can lineup another successor to ownership to infuse some cash.

I'd like them to see at least make an offer on an Arenado-like deal.

As much as I hate to see money be reason to see Lindor go, I do not despise the Dolans like many. They hire smart people, commit to them, let them do their jobs and provide a consistently good product on the field.

With the ownership routinely vilified locally, you'd think the Indians were losing 100 games every year and the Browns were perennial SB contenders.

I'll be going into my 5th year as a Tribe season ticket holder (1/2 season) and am looking forward to some summer nights at the ballpark.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 11/26/19 09:06 PM



Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 11:31 AM

Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 11:41 AM

Whatever happened to that young catcher that was supposed to be an up n comming player for us?

Not Meija....someone else.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 11:52 AM

Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Whatever happened to that young catcher that was supposed to be an up n comming player for us?

Not Meija....someone else.


If you're talking about Eric Haase, I think he's still on the Columbus Clippers roster, and still has options. He had 28 HR in AAA last season.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 12:05 PM

Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Whatever happened to that young catcher that was supposed to be an up n comming player for us?

Not Meija....someone else.


Bo Naylor?
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Whatever happened to that young catcher that was supposed to be an up n comming player for us?

Not Meija....someone else.


If you're talking about Eric Haase, I think he's still on the Columbus Clippers roster, and still has options. He had 28 HR in AAA last season.


Yes, I think this was who I was referring to.
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 04:51 PM

For people that like the Indians and have watched the Mandolorian:

Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 06:08 PM

Cincinnati Reds signed Mike Moustakis to a 4 year $64M deal. He'll play 2B for them. I wanted him here, but probably not for $16M per year.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2821...ds?platform=amp
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 06:54 PM

Yeah thatís quite a price to pay
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 07:04 PM

Wouldn't be surprised if the Indians go after Scooter Gennett, who was the Reds 2B last year when he finally got off the DL. He had 23 HR, 92 RBI, and a .310 BA in 2018.
Posted by: Jester

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/02/19 09:21 PM

Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Whatever happened to that young catcher that was supposed to be an up n comming player for us?

Not Meija....someone else.


That is the right name if not the right spelling - I'm not sure.
He had the 20 game hitting streak
We traded him a while back
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/03/19 06:57 AM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Wouldn't be surprised if the Indians go after Scooter Gennett, who was the Reds 2B last year when he finally got off the DL. He had 23 HR, 92 RBI, and a .310 BA in 2018.
heíd be a pretty good guy to target .... good call
Posted by: dawg66

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/03/19 11:45 AM

Depends on if you get the pre-injury or the post-injury Scooter. He was on IR for 3 months with a strained groin to start the season and didn't come back till the end of June and when he did he stunk so bad that Cincy traded him to San Fran for cash after a month of little production, San Fran cut him a month later when they got almost nothing out of him.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/03/19 04:26 PM

j/c...

Posted by: cfrs15

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/03/19 04:31 PM

If a person were to read the original article by Jeff Passan instead of just reading this misleading headline (I am not saying that's what you did Milk Man) then they would learn that what was said was:

Quote:
Lindor, multiple executives said, "is going to get traded." They're not sure if it's this winter or next summer, but considering how disciplined the Indians are, they want to maximize Lindor's value, and doing so means trading him before the July 31 deadline. Maybe if Cleveland is excellent, it's a different story, but executives who covet Lindor believe it's the logical outcome, because the Indians don't want to find themselves in a similar situation as Boston, with Betts' value diminished because he's so close to free agency.


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2821...son-trade-talks
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/03/19 04:40 PM

Yep, read the whole article.

I do expect him to be traded, it would have to be a major haul to trade him this year or the Indians absolutely bottom out early. I would be somewhat surprised if it happens this year.

Other than maybe the Dodgers, I'm not sure how many teams have the value in return to warrant trading him this year, but next year is likely, unfortunately.

Passan's article had a lot of other trade possibilities as well.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/04/19 12:35 PM

Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/04/19 02:52 PM

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/04/19 03:32 PM

Go ahead and SuperBrown your post and like it, That's great news!
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/05/19 08:44 PM

Phillies sign former Met SP Zach Wheeler to 5 year $118M. Makes Corey Kluber at $17.5M look like a bargain.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/12/04/zack-wheeler-signs-with-the-phillies-on-a-five-year-deal/
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/05/19 08:52 PM

If I were to bet, I would bet that Kluber gets traded this coming year.
Posted by: RocketOptimist

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/05/19 10:14 PM

If we come out guns a blazin' to start the season, Kluber and Lindor will stick around for this entire season.

If not, they'll be gone by July.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/09/19 01:29 PM

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/09/19 01:55 PM

Posted by: Barfolemew

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/09/19 01:58 PM

few job postings at the Indians for those with tech background:

https://boards.greenhouse.io/clevelandindiansbops

Front End, Back end and Network Ops Manager for baseball operations
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 12:09 AM

j/c...

Lovely....

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 07:41 AM

Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 09:19 AM

Yikes, Cole got some money
Posted by: Hammer

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 10:16 AM

Love it - Go Yanks!!!!
Posted by: Dawg Duty

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 01:24 PM

Originally Posted By: Hammer
Love it - Go Yanks!!!!


Teams like the Yankes and their money have ruined Baseball. They suck.
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 01:55 PM

The system in place has ruined it for sure ... I donít blame the teams much because itís within the rules and their right. They pay a luxury tax to do so.

Until there is a hard cap (and owners all agree to have a floor) then this will continue
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 04:45 PM

Dodgers talking Francisco Lindor trade with Indians

Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY
Dec. 11, 2019

SAN DIEGO ó Hoping to make a big splash as their World Series drought continues, the Los Angeles Dodgers are discussing a trade for shortstop Francisco Lindor with the Cleveland Indians, according to a person with direct knowledge of the talks.

The person spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because talks are ongoing.

Lindor will command an extensive return and the Indians are seeking a package centered around Dodgers top prospects 2B Gavin Lux and RHP Dustin May, both of whom reached the majors in 2019.

The 26-year-old Lindor is under team control through 2021 but the Indians are likely unable to offer him the kind of contract he should get on the open market.

Lindor debuted in 2015, finishing runner-up in AL Rookie of the Year voting and has been an All-Star the past four seasons. He won Gold Glove awards at shortstop in 2016 and 2019.

The Dodgers already have Corey Seager at shortstop, but he is also a free agent after the 2021 season.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ml...ans/4401683002/

**********

I'm not that familiar with these prospects, but it doesn't seem like enough for Lindor. I think the deal needs to include Alex Verdugo. Or maybe expand the deal to include Kluber, since the Dodgers missed on Gerrit Cole, to include Verdugo AND a second top pitching prospect beside May.
Posted by: Hammer

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 06:17 PM

blah blah blah. cry me a river...
Posted by: Dawg Duty

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 06:40 PM

Originally Posted By: Hammer
blah blah blah. cry me a river...


Not crying, but Baseball will never get another dime from me until they make it fair. If I lived in some crappy NE town maybe i'd feel different.
Posted by: Hammer

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 06:57 PM

Nothing better than beating the Indians, although I did like the Major League baseball movie.

I often wish I had moved to Sandusky to be a Carny or something.
Posted by: Ballpeen

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 07:13 PM

Unless the Tribe is going to get in to discussions to sign a Cole Garrett, then they need to look at trading Lindor and Kluber.

If you know you aren't going to be able to sign them, stock the pantry with a few blue chips and ride them until you can't sign them.

Life as a Indians fan. Unless a salary cap of sorts enters baseball, NY, Chicago, LA are always going to be able to pay more due to local money. Just a fact of scale.

They make more money from radio and TV rights, advertising, etc.

No way around it. Cleveland is a fairly small market team. The only way to a championship team is with young guys on the rise.

Right now we could get a ton for Lindor.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/11/19 07:51 PM

MLB's player union is too strong to ever allow a salary cap of any kind - hard, soft, or otherwise. The biggest disparity among the teams' ability to compete is TV broadcast income. Not only do some of the teams have a large advantage based on market size, there are also teams that own either all or a percentage of their own networks. For example, the Dodgers own 100% of their broadcast revenues and only the portion that they choose to pay themselves are part of the revenue sharing agreement. The broadcast revenues that are collected by their self-owned network are sheltered from revenue sharing.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/estimated-tv-revenues-for-all-30-mlb-teams/
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 12:17 PM

j/c...

My seats are going to be behind the net now. Groan.

It was only a matter of time, however.

Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 04:09 PM

Good for MLB.

The NFL needs to now get on board. I assume the changes will come in the next CBA and this will be used as a bargaining chip.

Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 05:13 PM

I don't think I'm buying this ...



Edit: On second thought, Austin Barnes isn't their Catcher phenom I thought he was at first (Ruiz) - Barnes is a journeyman - so I suppose this rumor could be legit. Its a great deal if true.

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 05:33 PM

Report: Indians have discussed trading Mike Clevinger in potential Francisco Lindor deal

According to David Vassegh of SportsNet LA, the Cleveland Indians have also discussed trading Mike Clevinger in a potential deal involving Francisco Lindor.
Author: Ben Axelrod
https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/mlb/...c5-da88927a244b
On Wednesday, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reported that trade talks between the Cleveland Indians and Los Angeles Dodgers have gotten serious.

And according to a new report, Lindor may not be the only star player the Tribe sends to Southern California.

Appearing on the MLB Network on Thursday afternoon, David Vassegh of SportsNetLA and AM 570 LA Sports confirmed the Indians' discussions with the Dodgers and interest in Los Angeles' top prospect, Gavin Lux. But in doing so, Vassegh also revealed that an even bigger deal between the two teams could be in play, with Cleveland having also discussed the possibility of sending pitcher Mike Clevinger to L.A.


ďThe Dodgers have a lot of prospect capital and not just guys, but guys that can make a difference. Gavin Lux, from what Iíve been told, is a guy that the Indians would want in any deal for Francisco Lindor," Vassegh said. "And from what Iíve found out the last 24 hours, there have been different versions of the trade discussed that would involve Lindor and not Corey Kluber, but Lindor and possibly Mike Clevinger.Ē

While any trade involving Lindor would be considered a blockbuster, adding Clevinger to such package could make it seismic. Given Corey Kluber's recent injury history -- and availability on the trade market -- Clevinger projects as arguably the Indians' top pitcher entering 2020 after posting a 2.71 ERA, 13-4 record and 169 strikeouts in 21 starts last season.

Cleveland, however, has never been afraid to deal from a position of strength and could feel comfortable doing just that given the current state of its pitching staff. Aside from Kluber and Clevinger, the Indians lay claim to a trio of promising young arms in Shane Bieber, Zach Plesac and Aaron Civale and have also had reported interest in acquiring the Dodgers' No. 2 prospect, pitcher Dustin May, in a prospective trade.

In addition to Lux and May, Cleveland could also inquire about outfielder Alex Verdugo, who hit for a .294 average (.817 OPS), 12 home runs and 44 RBIs in 106 games at the big league level last season. The Dodgers likely wouldn't part with three promising players unless they were getting back proven star players in return and a package including Lindor and Clevinger would certainly qualify as just that.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 05:35 PM

On the other hand ...

Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 06:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...

My seats are going to be behind the net now. Groan.

It was only a matter of time, however.



I'm glad they're doing this.
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 06:05 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
On the other hand ...



I think the Indians are going into this talk knowing they cannot afford Lindor once he becomes a FA (duh), but don't necessarily want to trade him with the playoff aspirations that still exist. However, if a team meets their extremely high demands now, I think they might pull the trigger.

These talks remind me of the Kluber trade rumors last season. Ask for the world and see who takes the bait.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 06:07 PM

I would consider trading Kluber, even though I hate trading pitching, because its anybody's guess whether he can regain his C.Y. form. But I don't want to trade Clevinger.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 06:18 PM

Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.
Posted by: Ballpeen

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 07:47 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.



No doubt it has to be a really good deal. But, we are never going to be able to sign him. I offer him my best deal now.

If that doesn't fly, I trade him to the highest bidder.


You have to. You just offered the most money you could.....you have to move on while you still have the leverage of time.

Like I said before, a city like Cleveland needs to win with young players and a few decent vets mingled in the mix. We can't out and out buy a world series.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 08:29 PM

I think the Indians probably feel like they have already made their best offer to extend Lindor. I know they already offered $100M/7-8years to him 2 years ago when they still held 4 years control and he was making a lot less than the $16M he'll make this year, and he declined the offer. They really can't pay one guy the $35M kind of money that Machado and Harper got and still maintain a major league roster, and that's the kind of money he'll command.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/12/19 09:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.


I'll be extremely surprised if Lindor is traded this season. I doubt any team will give up the haul required to make it an offer they cannot refuse. Next year, yes, he's likely gone, unfortunately.

Trading Clevinger would really irk me.

I'm ok trading Kluber. Lots of young pitching talent. Get something for him while you can and the wheels come off him. He's trending down, not up, imo.
Posted by: Swish

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/13/19 12:21 PM

MLB removes marijuana from 'drugs of abuse,' to test major league players for opioids

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/mlb-removes-marijuana-drugs-abuse-170126518.html

Also breaking: Josh Gordon quits football, signs with MLB team for 5 years, 120 million.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 12:24 PM

Per Jon Heyman of MLB.com, Corey Kluber traded to the Texas Rangers:

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 12:33 PM

Dangit
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 12:49 PM

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 12:49 PM

Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 12:54 PM

Wonder if you guys posting Twitter post would mind including a brief summary of its contents? For some reason, I'm not seeing Twitter posts for about the last week. Thanks.
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 12:57 PM

Twitter text: OF Delino DeShields Jr. and RHP Emmanuel Clase heading to #Indians for Kluber, source tells The Athletic.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 01:06 PM



Emmanuel Clase with your standard 100mph Cutter.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 01:07 PM

Clase last season in the minors had 50 Ks in 44 2/3 innings, then was promoted to the majors and recorded 21 Ks in 23 1/3 innings. Has a cutter that reaches triple digits that he pairs with a slider.

https://twitter.com/ByRyanLewis/status/1206272083082305537
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 01:13 PM

Feels like Tito banged the table for Deshields after learning he twice lead the league in Sac Bunts

https://twitter.com/jeffMLBdraft/status/1206275073616883718
Posted by: Day of the Dawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 01:18 PM

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
Clase last season in the minors had 50 Ks in 44 2/3 innings, then was promoted to the majors and recorded 21 Ks in 23 1/3 innings. Has a cutter that reaches triple digits that he pairs with a slider.

https://twitter.com/ByRyanLewis/status/1206272083082305537


Future Closer?
Posted by: Spergon FTWynn

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Per Jon Heyman of MLB.com, Corey Kluber traded to the Texas Rangers:

https://twitter.com/JonHeyman


I wish him all the best. I totally understand this trade for the Indians. Especially if Lindor is dealt, which that sounds like it is possible.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 01:46 PM

It doesn't seem like enough for a two time CYA winner, unless maybe the Indians think Kluber's tank is getting low. Indians better spend at least some of that $17.5M they're saving on this year's payroll, or its gonna be a crapstorm of negativity from fans here.
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 02:07 PM

Hopefully those prospects pan out
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 02:17 PM

I don't know much about the pitching prospect but the return, on the surface, feels a little light. I get age, contract, injury issues....still seems thin.

#InAntonettiITrust
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 02:28 PM

I thought we'd get more in return for Kluber. Dumped a lot of salary on this trade.

Intrigued by Clase. May have our closer for the foreseeable future. Fastball and slider guy.

Posted by: Jester

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Milk Man
I thought we'd get more in return for Kluber. Dumped a lot of salary on this trade.


Agreed. I'm a little underwhelmed by this trade

Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Intrigued by Clase. May have our closer for the foreseeable future. Fastball and slider guy.


Between Clase and James Karinchak we are clearly moving to a power arm bullpen
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 03:39 PM

I think we got a decent return for Kluber.

I am sure we'll try to get a huge return on Lindor, since he seems unlikely (at best) to re-sign here. I would be extremely ticked off if we trade Clevinger.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 03:49 PM

Chris Antonetti was asked if the Kluber trade will influence what they may/may not do with Lindor this offseason:

"No. As Iíve said before, I have every expectation that Francisco Lindor will be our starting shortstop Opening Day next year."

https://twitter.com/MandyBell02/status/1206314364422230016
Posted by: dawg66

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/15/19 06:31 PM

Kinda underwhelmed by that trade. A career .246 hitter and the Rangers' 30th ranked prospect.
Posted by: cfrs15

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/18/19 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
I think we got a decent return for Kluber.


The only way this is a decent return for Kluber is if his arm is falling off.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/18/19 07:28 PM

The Plain Dealer's Indians beat writer, Paul Hoynes, is usually pretty friendly to the front office, and even he says its a salary dump.
Posted by: tastybrownies

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 09:07 AM

I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park. To me he's an embarrassment and one of the worst owners in the majors. Guy is a joke. Are we keeping anybody? Getting a discount LaPorta back in return again? Prospects? Psssshhhhh.
Posted by: dawg66

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 09:38 AM

REDS interested in Lindor.



By Mark Feinsand @feinsand
December 19, 2019

A new entrant has emerged as a potential suitor for Francisco Lindor.

The Reds have been engaged with the Indians in talks about the superstar shortstop, according to a source, thrusting Cincinnati into a mix that reportedly includes the Dodgers and Padres, among other clubs. The clubs have not confirmed the talks.

ē Six not-so-crazy Lindor trade proposals

Itís unclear whether the talks have gained any traction, though the fact that the Reds are showing interest is yet another sign that the club is serious about contending in a wide-open National League Central.

Cincinnati has been aggressive on the trade front during the past year, acquiring Yasiel Puig and Trevor Bauer in a pair of notable deals. The Reds have already made one big move this winter, signing Mike Moustakas to a four-year, $64 million deal to play second base. Wade Miley was signed on Wednesday to fill out the rotation, but a big bat remains on the Redsí offseason shopping list. Lindor would certainly fit that category.

Reds general manager Nick Krall, speaking Wednesday as the club introduced Miley, was asked about the pursuit of a bat.

ďWhether itís the trade market or the free-agent market, weíll do whatever we can to keep improving this club,Ē Krall said.

ďYouíve got to have teams that are willing to trade players. I think itís up to those teams. Weíve had talks in the trade market, and weíve also had them in the free-agent market.Ē

Krall also said that even after signing Moustakas and Miley for a combined $79 million, the Reds have enough payroll flexibility to make more moves.

The Reds have a number of appealing young players who could be included in a trade package (Nick Senzel, Jonathan India, Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo), and they have a recent history of dealing with Cleveland, having completed the three-way deal last July that landed Bauer in Cincinnati.

Cleveland traded Corey Kluber to Texas last week, clearing about $17 million from the 2020 payroll. Cotsí Baseball Contracts estimates that Lindor will earn $17 million next season, his second of three arbitration-eligible years. Heís under club control through 2021, after which heís expected to command a mammoth deal that could easily surpass the $300 million mark.

To move their franchise player, the Indians will surely need to be overwhelmed by an offer for Lindor. Whether the Reds are prepared to make such an offer remains to be seen.

Mark Feinsand, an executive reporter, originally joined MLB.com as a reporter in 2001. Mark Sheldon contributed to this report.

https://www.mlb.com/reds/news/francisco-lindor-eyed-by-reds-in-trade-talks
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 10:32 AM

Quote:
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.


Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.

I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 10:51 AM

Is attendance really in the bottom 1/3 ?
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 10:59 AM

Last year we won 93 games, and attendance was 1.7 million, good (or bad) for 21st in MLB.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 11:00 AM

Originally Posted By: waterdawg
Is attendance really in the bottom 1/3 ?


#21 out of 30 teams.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance
Posted by: tastybrownies

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 01:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Quote:
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.


Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.

I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.


Everything you just said is nice but where's our world series? That's the ultimate goal. We can't settle for just good enough, don't have time for that.

When you trade away proven players that is just about the dumbest thing you can do. It puts you further away from winning or even getting to the series.
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 04:30 PM

Thanks guys ! 21 out of 30 ain't great .. Use to go all the time when I live in Cleveland .. But then again I grew up playing ball and a way different America.

I have been amazed at how the Tribe turns out Young dynamite pitchers either trough draft or trade .. No Cap has always hurt the game ..
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 05:17 PM

Quote:
Use to go all the time when I lived in Cleveland .. But then again I grew up playing ball and a way different America.


Same here. My wife and I used to go to 25 or so games per year back at the old stadium in the 80's and early 90's. Section 22, Upper Reserved, tip the beer guy so he comes back, LOL.

I also grew up playing baseball all summer. Mornings we'd bike up to Navy Park on Ridge Rd for our league games. Off days we'd take off looking for pickup games at either Brookside Park next to the Zoo, Edgewater Park down by the lake, Gunning Park on the far west side, or one of the many school playgrounds on the west side of Cleveland. Nowadays, I drive by beautifully manicured ball fields in the west suburb I live in, and they are usually either empty or they're using the outfields for soccer practice. A different America for sure.
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 05:42 PM

Originally Posted By: tastybrownies
Originally Posted By: Dave
Quote:
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.


Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.

I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.


Everything you just said is nice but where's our world series? That's the ultimate goal. We can't settle for just good enough, don't have time for that.

When you trade away proven players that is just about the dumbest thing you can do. It puts you further away from winning or even getting to the series.


Not if there's no way to re-sign them.

Nobody is going to buy an MLB team and throw more money into it than they can ever hope to bring in. These millionaires and billionaires don't get to that level by wasting money.
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/20/19 10:29 PM

Well to use colloquial English , we grew up in the same Hood ; West 73rd...I'm a few years older than you but your ball parks where mine also .. Us old guys ( just like every generation ) talk about the way it use to be.. Before Tech. we lived out doors , we all played some kind of ball at different levels. Opening day at old Munnie was a site to behold.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/21/19 08:53 AM

Cleveland Indians on the prowl for an infielder, here are some names

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2019/12/...some-names.html

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
ABOUT FREE AGENTS

Now that the Indians made the Corey Kluber deal with Texas and saved his $17-million salary, they have created some cash to sign an infielder.

Jose Ramirez has offered to play second or third base. He prefers to stay at third, and the Indians believe itís his best position.

Now, they are shopping for a second baseman, and here are some names on their list. I donít know the order of preference. Besides, money will be a major factor.

My guess is the Tribe would like to sign an established veteran to play second on a one-year contract.

Anyway, here are the names:

1. Jonathan Schoop: The 27-year-old had a good year with the Twins, batting .256 (.777 OPS) with 23 HR and 59 RBI. Some of the Moneyball executives donít like him: 20 walks compared to 116 strikeouts. He has hit at least 20 HR in each of his last four seasons. I think the Indians really like him.

2. Brian Dozier: The former Twins second baseman was with the World Champion Washington Nationals in 2019, batting .238 (.771 OPS) with 20 HR and 54 RBI. Heís 32 and some executives think he may be on the decline. Iíve always liked his game, and I think thatís also true of the Indians. Dozier hit 22 HR for his career vs. the Tribe.

3. Starlin Castro: It seems as if heís played forever because heís been in the Majors for 10 years. But he is only 29 years old. Castro batted .270 (.736 OPS) with 22 HR and 86 RBI for Miami last season. Talk about playing every day, Castro was like the National Anthem... out there for all 162 games.

4. Cesar Hernandez: He is the player most linked to the Tribe in rumors, but I donít think heís rated far above others on this list. The 29-year-old Hernandez batted .279 (.741 OPS) with 14 HR and 71 RBI for the Philadelphia Phillies.

I hear the Indians are not interested in former Tribe infielders Asdrubal Cabrera or Jason Kipnis Ė at least not at this point.

The 32-year-old Kipnis had an OK year for the Tribe, batting .245 (.715 OPS) with 17 HR and 65 RBI. The Indians declined his $16.5-million option for 2020.

There is some concern about injuries with Kipnis. He dealt with a calf muscle problem early last season. In 2017, he was on the disabled list twice with hamstring injuries.

The market for him will probably not be very strong. That also can be true for someone such as Dozier, who batted .227 (.718 OPS) over the last two seasons. But he did hit 41 HR in 286 games, so he does have some power.

The four names on the list range from decent to pretty good. Probably two will receive multi-year deals, the others wonít.

But itís hard to know to whom the money will flow. My guess is the Tribe will wait and watch as that happens before making a move.

ABOUT THE COREY KLUBER TRADE

1. When they left the Winter Meetings, the Indians had an idea about the value of Kluber in a trade. Most offers were for players in the Class A level, much like the Justin Verlander deal by Detroit in 2017.

2. The Tigers received three Houston ďprospectsĒ in return: Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron and Jake Rogers. Two years later, none have made an impact in Detroit. Perez has significant arm problems. Cameron batted .214 for Class AAA Toledo. Rogers hit .125 with 51 strikeouts in 128 plate appearances in Detroit.

3. The Indians targeted Texas Rangers pitcher Emmanuel Clase because heís already made it to the majors by the age of 21. The righthander had a 2.31 ERA in 23 1/3 innings for Texas, fanning 21 compared to six walks. His average fastball was 99 mph.

4. The Indians see Clase as a closer at some point. Unlike many relievers who can hit 100 mph on the radar gun, Claseís fastball has movement. Remember how Bryan Shaw had a 93-mph cutter that swooped away from righties? Thatís the kind of movement Clase has on the 99-mph fastball.

5. Some fans have focused on Delino DeShields Jr. being in the trade. The Indians took him rather than a low minors prospect. He is considered an above-average center fielder. He stole 24 bases in 30 attempts.

6. Yes, the Indians plan to open with Oscar Mercado in center. There is not much depth in the outfield. Franmil Reyes will try to prove he can play at least half the games in right field. They have Jordan Luplow in left field.

7. Brad Zimmer is trying to come back from major shoulder surgery that wiped out most of the last two seasons. Tyler Naquin is recovering from major ACL knee surgery and probably wonít be ready at least until June. Greg Allen batted .229 and could not take much advantage of playing time.

8. Jake Bauers had a chance to be a regular left fielder but batted only .226. Like Allen, he spent part of the year in the minors. DeShields is a career .246 hitter (.668 OPS) with little power and good speed. The Indians see the right-handed hitter as a fourth outfielder. As of now, he is ahead of Allen, Zimmer and Bauers.

9. A player who is set up to be a spring phenom is Daniel Johnson, who batted a combined .290 (.868 OPS) with 19 HR and 77 RBI between Class AA and AAA last season. The 24-year-old outfielder impressed the Tribe last spring in Goodyear. Then he had the good season, finishing strong by batting .306 at Class AAA Columbus in 84 games.

10. The trade was primarily about cutting payroll and adding a MLB bullpen-ready arm in Clase, who is under team control for five years. They will use some of the money saved from the Kluber deal to shop for an infielder, a reliever and an outfielder.

11. As for the supposed ďdeadlineĒ on a Francisco Lindor trade, the Indians could tell teams that. It doesnít preclude them from changing their minds in January or later. Or perhaps, itís just another rumor. Certainly there are active trade talks happening with Lindor involved.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/21/19 03:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Quote:
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.


Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.

I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.


Agree 100%. The Dolan's have been great owners. They run a stable franchise, have one of the best FOs in the league and consistently put out a good product.

It amazes me how they get so much flack from fans, meanwhile the Browns are an annual dumpster fire and league embarrassment and fans show up in droves.

The Browns would be so lucky to have even half the success the Indians have had.

Can't wait to spend the summer up at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/23/19 01:08 PM

Source: Indians agree with ex-Phillies 2B Cesar Hernandez

ESPN
Dec 23, 2019

Second baseman Cesar Hernandez and the Cleveland Indians have agreed to a one-year, $6.25 million contract, sources familiar with the agreement told ESPN's Jeff Passan.

Hernandez, 29, became a free agent when he wasn't tendered a contract by the Philadelphia Phillies after a season in which he hit .279 with 14 home runs and a career-high 71 RBIs.

He avoided arbitration in 2019 by reaching a one-year, $7.75 million deal with Philadelphia, and he was again eligible for arbitration had he signed after the season.

Hernandez had been a starter with the Phillies since 2015, when he replaced Chase Utley. He led the team with a .294 batting average in both 2016 and 2017 then had a career-high 15 home runs in 2018. He has averaged 2.5 wins-above replacement over the past four seasons.


https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/28360154/source-indians-agree-ex-phillies-2b-cesar-hernandez
Posted by: Jester

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/23/19 01:16 PM

Sounds like a decent bat, how's his defense?
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/23/19 02:31 PM

Most hits by a second baseman (since 2016):

1. Jose Altuve (738)
2. D.J. LeMahieu (725)
3. Whit Merrifield (655)
4. Cesar Hernandez (635)

#Indians are getting a guy who can flat out swing the stick.



Cesar Hernandez's last four seasons: .279/.357/.395 slash line, 15 stolen bases per year. Has been about league average or a little better offensively. He'll be the starting second baseman, Jose Ramirez will remain at third, as the team preferred.

https://twitter.com/ZackMeisel/status/1209167931772461058
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/23/19 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Jester
Sounds like a decent bat, how's his defense?


I've never seen him play, but by defensive stats, he appears a bit better than Kipnis in terms of range and DWAR. He can also play 3B, SS, and CF, plus he's a switch hitter. No idea whether he's a legit switch hitter or the Greg Allen type (as in not really).
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/24/19 05:02 AM

Thatís a pretty nice deal IMO; low risk financially ... the guyís probably looking to have a good year to solidify a long term deal
Posted by: Ballpeen

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/24/19 06:41 AM

A solid addition to the line-up.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/26/19 07:37 AM

Its been a busy off season for the White Sox. Yesterday they signed Edwin Encarnacion, after signing SP's Dallas Keuchel and Gio Gonzalez, along with C Yasmani Grandal. They also resigned their own FA slugger, Jose Abreu, and traded for OF Nomar Mazara. Throw in a good young core of SS Tim Anderson, 3B Yoan Moncada, and OF Eloy Jimenez and it appears that Chicago's other team is going to be a contender in the AL Central.
Posted by: Dawg Duty

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 02:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Milk Man
Originally Posted By: Dave
Quote:
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.


Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.

I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.


Agree 100%. The Dolan's have been great owners. They run a stable franchise, have one of the best FOs in the league and consistently put out a good product.

It amazes me how they get so much flack from fans, meanwhile the Browns are an annual dumpster fire and league embarrassment and fans show up in droves.

The Browns would be so lucky to have even half the success the Indians have had.

Can't wait to spend the summer up at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario.


If the Reds can afford to pay Lindor why can't we?
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 04:28 PM

Quote:

If the Reds can afford to pay Lindor why can't we?


I can't answer that. The two teams appear pretty close in franchise value and attendance. Forbes says that the Reds had an operating income (profit) of $37M while the Indians' was $16M, but none of these MLB owners will open their books for a hard look at how much they really make. I assume the Reds know what they can afford and likewise, so do the Indians.


https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 04:32 PM

Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.

Maybe the Reds are willing to pay up big for a 2 year window ..... and maybe the Indians are as well ..... but the Tribe has been a forward thinking team and if they get a blockbuster deal for Lindor, then they are also not afraid to make a huge deal.
Posted by: cfrs15

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.


They can afford him, they just don't want to pay him. It's much more fun to trade for young players and make more money.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 05:20 PM

Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.


They can afford him, they just don't want to pay him. It's much more fun to trade for young players and make more money.


I don't think that's right. This isn't the NFL - there's no salary cap, and only limited revenue sharing from a luxury tax on the very highest spenders. The only way the Indians can pay Lindor the $35M per year he'll command would be at the expense of the rest of their roster. Even if they expanded their payroll to $140M, that would be 25% of the total. At todays' payroll ($95M), it would be approaching 40%.
Posted by: cfrs15

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 06:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Dave
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.


They can afford him, they just don't want to pay him. It's much more fun to trade for young players and make more money.


I don't think that's right. This isn't the NFL - there's no salary cap, and only limited revenue sharing from a luxury tax on the very highest spenders. The only way the Indians can pay Lindor the $35M per year he'll command would be at the expense of the rest of their roster. Even if they expanded their payroll to $140M, that would be 25% of the total. At todays' payroll ($95M), it would be approaching 40%.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/...9/#182a2ed35d78
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 06:17 PM

The reported $10.7B revenue total for MLB is not distributed equally. Example: Yankees' revenue was $668M; Indians' was $282M.

https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/
Posted by: ScottPlayersFacemask

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: YTownBrownsFan
Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.


They can afford him, they just don't want to pay him. It's much more fun to trade for young players and make more money.


I agree with Cfrs. Thankfully we have a very solid/great FO

Why small market teams

I apologize Dave that Iím only posting the link. Itís a lot easier on the eyes just to click on the link then pasting it on here.


.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/30/19 07:30 PM

Its not my job to somehow divine the Indians' financial well being, but the author is a bit disingenuous when he discusses the Brewers with their $66M in operating revenues (profit) and then goes on to say that the Indians are right behind them in the ranking for revenues. The revenues for the Brewers were $288M while the Indians' revenues were $282M. But his basis for claiming that the Brewers were crying poor was that they had $66M in operating revenue, which is profit before taxes, interest owed, and expenses. The Indians' operating revenue (profit) was $16M.

Clearly, the Indians are not "right behind" the Brewers in profits ($66M > $16M; its 4X more), but I suppose that little detail didn't fit his narrative to bash the greedy owners.

https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 12/31/19 10:59 AM

Not a real big fan of the Dolan's , but they have kept a small market team in the thick of things for a lot of seasons.. Think they blew the STO sale money on some poor decisions .. But as I have said before , what they do with young pitchers is off the charts.. Just need the cash for a couple of serious BATS ...
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/01/20 11:24 AM

Twins sign SP's Rich Hill and Homer Bailey.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2019/12/31/twins-sign-homer-bailey-and-rich-hill/
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/02/20 01:59 PM

Outfielder Luis Robert and the Chicago White Sox are in agreement on a six-year, $50 million contract that includes two club options, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN.

Robert will begin the season in Chicago. No service-time manipulation necessary. Sox are gonna be good.

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1212799753118986240


So...ummm...yeah, I think it may be time to take the White Sox seriously...

https://twitter.com/NickCaminoWKYC/status/1212809596613615617
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/06/20 12:35 PM

j/c...

Angels interested in trade for Clevinger.

https://www.mlb.com/news/angels-indians-mike-clevinger-trade-talk
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/06/20 01:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Milk Man
j/c...

Angels interested in trade for Clevinger.

https://www.mlb.com/news/angels-indians-mike-clevinger-trade-talk


NO!!!!!!

Unless the pay the highest price ever paid for a player ....... then just NO!
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/08/20 08:27 AM

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/corey-kluber-thank-you-cleveland

Thank You, Cleveland

Corey Kluber
TEXAS RANGERS
JAN 8 2020

How do you say goodbye to your home? How do you say thank you to 400,000 people?

Cleveland is the only city Iíve known as a major leaguer. Playing for the Indians has been the biggest constant in my professional life. In 10 years there, I pitched pretty well ó won some awards and went to the playoffs a few times. It was fun. But just as important as that, Cleveland was where I learned how to be a professional baseball player.

Iíve always been a show-up-and-go-to-work kind of guy, and there isnít a city better suited to that blue-collar mentality than Cleveland. Itís been a perfect marriage ever since September 1, 2011, when the Indians called me up to the big leagues for the first time.

Cleveland was where I learned how to be a professional baseball player.
It was the middle of the night when I got the phone call. I was actually trying to get some sleep while on a bus trip with the Columbus Clippers. We were on our way back home after a road trip to Louisville. This was it, my call-up. The moment I had been waiting for. It was happening. But I was so out of it that I remember the moment but not many specifics. No matter, I was ready. I had to be ó I pitched that day.

It took another year of shuttling back and forth before the Indians finally added me to the rotation full-time in 2013. But Iím proud that I always did everything in my power to seize every opportunity and make the most of it. In 10 years in Cleveland, I never stopped doing that.

Everything my teammates and I did was always about trying to bring home a championship ó especially after the Cavs won the NBA title in 2016. But that doesnít mean we had any expectations. It was always about playing that dayís game, about not getting ahead of ourselves. When we went on our run to the World Series a few months later, we didnít want to think that we had anything in the bag. We were pretty young, and almost no one on that team had playoff experience. Either you let the pressure affect you or you donít. It might seem obvious, but in the World Series you know youíre still playing when there are 28 other teams that are not. That was the mentality. Weíre still playing. One game at a time. You gotta put your head down and get to work.

Cleveland has embraced that mentality for as long as Iíve been there. Thatís what people there do every day. As terrible as it felt not to win a championship, it was amazing the way the city embraced the team that year ó in a way I canít quite put into words. The outpouring of support from the entire fan base to the players and their families was special. The fans and the city didnít beat us up over losing. They supported us.

For me, as the guy who took the hill in the deciding game of the World Series that year, that support was huge. When I started against the Cubs at Progressive Field for Game 7 in November 2016 I wanted to get it done ó and there were 38,000 fans in that ballpark who wanted the same thing, too. You could feel it. It was electric.

But, unfortunately, we didnít get it done. I never blame anyone or anything when things donít go as planned. Instead, I put my head down and I get back to work. And thatís what we all did after that World Series: We dusted ourselves off, put our heads down and got back to work. Thatís what you do when youíre from Cleveland.



There has been speculation that I pitched with injuries during the playoffs. To me, thereís no difference between a night in August and a night in October. If I feel I can help the team win, Iím going to take the ball. Bumps and bruises are part of the game, and Iíll never use them as an excuse if I donít pitch to the standard Iíve set for myself.

And not pitching because of an injury is exactly what happened to me last year. After I got nailed by that line drive last May I missed the rest of the season. While dealing with my injury, I watched the moves the club was making ó and I watched as people wrote us off because of the other injuries we were dealing with and some of the trades we made. That was no fun.

I wanted to play, to help in some way. But as I sat on the sidelines I started to come to terms with the possibility that my days left in my only professional home could be numbered. The time might finally have come to move on. I understand that baseball is a business and I understand how this business works ó and I accepted the fact that I could be traded.

So when I got the call last month telling me that I had been dealt to the Texas Rangers, I canít say I was blindsided. Iím moving on. Cleveland is the only big league city Iíve ever known, and I will always love it and carry it in a special place in my heart. Itís bittersweet to say goodbye, but I am off to a new, exciting chapter in Texas ó and looking forward to it. All I can do now is put my head down and go to work again.

But before I go, I want to take the time to say thank you to Cleveland. The things Iíll always remember about this city are my relationships. My relationships with the guys Iíve played with. With the fans. With the trainers. With the people I saw in the clubhouse every day.

There are also relationships away from the ballpark that I will miss. I will miss all the smiling faces at batting practice for Kluberís Kids. I will miss the patients and staff at Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals. I will miss Ali Rieman, the first patient with whom my wife, Amanda, and I built a close bond, and who inspired us to start our foundation.

All I can do now is put my head down and go to work again.
Thank you to guys like Lonnie Chisenhall and Yan Gomes and Carlos Carrasco and Josh Tomlin, and all the other Indians teammates who opened their homes to me and my family. Thank you to Wine Bar Rocky River for the postgame hangouts. And thank you to Amanda for raising our three children in the only baseball city theyíve ever known. Cleveland will always be special to me and my family. Amanda is from Massachusetts. Iím from Texas. But for 10 years Cleveland was truly our home.

Thank you to the Indians for a decade of great memories: 2016, the win streak in 2017, 20 wins in 2018. Cleveland is where I became a major league ballplayer, and itís where I developed my identity as a pitcher. There are a lot of things Iím proud of, a lot of things that we accomplished together. And Iíll never forget any of it.

If you know me, you know that Iím a guy who likes to keep things on the field. And now itís time for me to get back to work ó to get back on the field. I havenít pitched since May 1. Iíve talked to some guys who have moved on from Cleveland to other teams, and they told me it can be a little weird to go back to Progressive Field and be in the visitorís clubhouse. But they also say that, in a way, returning to Cleveland in a new uniform gave them a sense of closure.

When I come back to Cleveland next season, Iíll be coming back as a visitor. But Iíll still go over to the Indiansí clubhouse and say hello, still make sure to see all the people I saw every day when I was playing there. Iím excited to be in a new situation, but those things will always be a part of me.

Iíll be back as a Ranger, but Iíll always be from Cleveland.
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/08/20 10:25 AM

What a class guy !
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 11:24 AM

Per source, OF Tyler Naquin and the Indians avoid arbitration, settle for $1.45 million.

https://twitter.com/Feinsand/status/1215669732948529152
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 02:06 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- And then there were three.

Right-hander Nick Wittgren and the Indians agreed Friday on a one-year $1.125 million deal to avoid arbitration. He was projected to earn $1.3 million in arbitration by mlbtraderumors.com.

Wittgren, acquired in February from the Marlins, opened last season at Class AAA Columbus. He made two appearances with the Clippers before being recalled on April 9. Wittgren, 28, never looked back. He went 5-1 with four saves and a 2.81 ERA in 55 games to become a key member of a bullpen that had the third best ERA in the AL.

Outfielder Tyler Naquin and the Indians avoided arbitration earlier in the day by agreeing to a one-year deal worth $1.45 million. MLBtradrumors.com projected that Naquin would earn $1.8 million in arbitration.

Naquin, 28, was having his best season since his rookie year in 2016 when he collided with the left field fence on Aug. 30 against the Rays at Tropicana Field. He tore the ACL in his right knee and was finished for the last season.

In 89 games last year, Naquin hit .288 (79-for-274) with 19 doubles, 10 homers and 34 RBI. He finished second in the AL with a team-high 11 assists from the outfield.

Francisco Lindor, Mike Clevinger and Delino DeShields are the Indians other arbitration-eligible players. They had until noon Friday to exchange salary figures for the 2020 season.

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/01/...rbitration.html
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 02:47 PM

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 03:35 PM

Tribe agreements today vs. MLB Trade Rumors estimates:
-- Lindor: $17.5M; estimated $16.7M
-- DeShields: $1.875M; estimated $2.4M
-- Naquin: $1.45M; estimated $1.8M
-- Wittgren: $1.125M; estimated $1.3M
Totals: $21.95M, which is $250,000 below the estimates. Well done, MLBTR.

Still waiting on Mike Clevinger. But nothing that's happened today is going to change the estimates that, barring any significant additions, the Indians' payroll will be in the low $90 million range to start the season.
I would think they're not done. But, well ...

https://twitter.com/KevinKleps/status/1215732448291708935
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 05:26 PM

Per Zack Meisel, Mike Clevinger signed a contract for 2020. All arbitration-eligible players have been signed.

https://twitter.com/ZackMeisel/status/1215760649902546945
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 05:49 PM

Tribe's five signings Friday added $26,050,000 to the payroll. Mike Clevinger, last man to sign, agreed to a 1-year deal worth $4.1 million. It's a nice bump from last year's salary of $592,200.

https://twitter.com/hoynsie/status/1215767150188793856
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 06:28 PM

Whatever their payroll is now, they need to add to it by signing a FA corner outfielder and another bullpen arm.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 06:30 PM

#BringPuigBack
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/10/20 06:35 PM

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg
#BringPuigBack


Puig or Nicholas Castellanos. (NC is probably too rich for our blood.)
Posted by: Jester

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/12/20 08:44 AM

https://www.cleveland.com/tribe/2020/01/...ians-stand.html

Whatís up with Francisco Lindor? Hereís how Cleveland Indians stand

Today 5:57 AM
Francisco Lindor in MLB All-Star Game 2019

By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer
ABOUT FRANCISCO LINDORíS TRADE SITUATION

After the 2018 season, the Cleveland Indians told Corey Kluber there were likely to be a lot of trade rumors that included his name.

Their stance was, ďTry to ignore it. We will let you know if anything is really close.Ē

They never made a call to Kluber about that... until a month ago, as he was being traded to the Texas Rangers for Emmanuel Clase.

Francisco Lindor was told the same thing. While the Indians have had seemingly countless texts and calls from other teams about their star shortstop, there has been nothing close to a deal.


Other teams say the Indians have an exorbitant asking price for the 26-year-old Lindor. The Indians say publicly and privately that Lindor is one of the best players in baseball, the full package on and off the field.

Furthermore, the Indians believe they can win the AL Central Division. If they were in a rebuild stage, Lindor would probably have been traded by now. They did receive some attractive offers of lower level minor league prospects.

Hereís what Iíve heard:

1. The Tribe wants a combination of good, young big league players under team control for several years along with top prospects. It would be a hyper-version of Julyís Trevor Bauer three-way deal with the Cincinnati Reds and San Diego Padres.

2. In that trade, the Indians received Yasiel Puig and Franmil Reyes to immediately help the big league team. Puig was a rental for the rest of the season. Reyes is considered a core player, a power hitter for the next several years. They also received prospects Logan Allen, Scott Moss and Victor Nova.

3. The Reds have talked to the Tribe about Lindor, who is a free agent in two seasons. The Reds donít believe they can sign Lindor to an extension. Itís the same with Bauer, a free agent after the 2020 season. The Reds want to go all-in to make the playoffs this summer and worry about free agency later.

4. The Reds have traded a lot of prospects in the last few years, including Moss (a highly-regarded starter) to the Tribe. They seemed to think the Indians are anxious to trade Lindor. Theyíre wrong.

5. Several weeks ago, the Indians did put out word theyíd like the best offers for Lindor. But there was no firm deadline. As one baseball executive told me, ďTeams set deadlines all the time, then change them.Ē

6. Things could change if the Los Angeles Dodgers decide they want to deal top prospects Gavin Lux, Dustin May and some others. The Dodgers have a loaded farm system. Lux was the 2019 Baseball America Minor League Player of the Year. But so far, the Dodgers havenít made the kind of offer to entice the Indians into thinking twice about trading Lindor.


LINDOR AND THE 2020 SEASON

The Indians say Lindor is in a great frame of mind. He was frustrated last season when he strained a calf muscle right before spring training. As he prepared to join the Indians late in spring training, he suffered a high ankle sprain.

Lindor missed the first 18 games of the 2019 season because of injuries. It was his first trip to the disabled list.

Not only is Lindor an All-Star, he has been durable. Between 2016-18, he missed only 11 games. Once he returned in 2019, he missed only one game. He has vowed to be in the best condition of his career to open spring training.

This is the first time Lindorís name has been mentioned in trade rumors. Different players have different reactions. The Indians donít think the rumors have had a negative impact on Lindor.

Things can always change with one phone call. The Dodgers still want to add a star-caliber player. They have talked about dealing for Mookie Betts and Kris Bryant, along with Lindor. Perhaps they will meet the Tribeís price.

But right now, it appears Tribe president Chris Antonetti is correct when he says he expects Lindor to open the season with the Tribe.

ABOUT THE TRIBE

1. I donít understand the arbitration process. Lindor ended up with a $17.5 million deal, as did Bauer. Neither player went to arbitration. They settled as it came close. Lindor had a superb season, hitting .284 (.854 OPS) with 32 HR, 74 RBI. He is only the fifth player in baseball history to have at least 40 doubles and 30 HR in three consecutive seasons, according to the Tribeís post-season media guide.

2. Bauer had an 11-13 record and 4.48 ERA in 2019. With the Reds, he was 2-5 with a 6.39 ERA in 10 starts after the trade. Bauerís first full season in the majors was 2014. Only once (2018) has he had an ERA under 4.00. I canít explain how they both end up with the same deal, other than itís driven by arbitration.

3. MLBtraderumors.com is an excellent source for various information, especially arbitration. They use some type of formula to estimate the salaries of arbitration-eligible players. They predicted $18.6 million for Bauer, $16.7 for Lindor. I guess Bauer gets more because he has one more year of service.

4. I was surprised the Indians shipped backup catcher Eric Haase to the Detroit Tigers for cash. I was told the Indians were concerned about his strikeouts. He struck out 287 times in 886 Class AAA plate appearances. He also had 49 HR and 133 RBI in 224 games. Haase is 27.

5. The Tribe picked up 30-year-old career backup catcher Sandy Leon to replace Haase. The Indians internal stats show Leon as a superior game-caller and pitch-framer. Pitchers love to throw to him. The same is said about starter Roberto Perez. With a young starting staff, the Indians wanted a veteran catcher to help the pitchers. Leon doesnít hit, a career .221 (.615 OPS) average in parts of eight seasons.
Posted by: RocketOptimist

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/12/20 02:28 PM

If the Dolans were smart, Lindor would be traded as soon as possible for the best deal. Also, they would also sell the team as their next smart decision.
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/12/20 02:39 PM

Why should they sell the team?
Posted by: RocketOptimist

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/12/20 03:50 PM

Mismanagement since the World Series year. Allowing Chernoff to let Brantley walk is a huge strike. The wasted time we put towards Salazar.

They know about as much about baseball as Jimmy knows about football.
Posted by: YTownBrownsFan

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/12/20 03:55 PM

Yeah, that's why they have won 94, 102, 91, and 93 games over the past 4 seasons. Terrible management. rolleyes

As far as Brantley, they could not afford $16 million/season with their other commitments, and with working to try and keep Frankie.

Not every team is the Yankees, who can throw money at players without regard to how it affects the rest of their team.

Added: As far as Salazar, they took an inexpensive chance (relatively) to see whether or not he could return to form.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 02:05 PM

BREAKING: Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have been suspended for one year after an MLB investigation found the team used technology to cheat during its World Series-winning 2017 season, sources familiar with the punishment tell ESPN.

Additionally, MLB will fine the Astros $5 million and take away their first- and second-round picks in the 2020 and 2021 drafts, sources tell ESPN.

https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1216796081457111040
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 03:12 PM

Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 03:18 PM

I don't think Jim Crane even believes this himself when he says...

Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 03:20 PM

Red Sox manager (and former Astros' coach), Alex Cora, was implicated too, and will be facing some kind of punishment. MLB is also investigating allegations that the Red Sox stole signs electronically in 2018.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/01/13/major-astros-punishment-luhnow-hinch-suspended-for-one-year/
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 03:22 PM

Coming home to roost ..
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 03:24 PM




https://twitter.com/Mike_Anthony13/status/1216817792281980928
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 03:32 PM

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 03:33 PM

Posted by: RocketOptimist

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 04:14 PM

Should forfeit all games from those seasons as well as the World Series titles.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 05:14 PM

NBC Sports: Red Sox Mgr Alex Cora is "dead man walking".

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/01/13/alex-cora-sign-stealing/
Posted by: Hammer

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/13/20 11:55 PM

excellent - cheating bastard. did it for 2 teams.
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/14/20 08:09 PM

Twins sign FA 3B Josh Donaldson to 4 year $92M deal.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/01/14/twins-ink-josh-donaldson-to-four-year-deal/

Red Sox fire manager Alex Cora in wake of Astros' cheating scandal.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2020/01/14/red-sox-dismiss-alex-cora/
Posted by: jaybird

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/14/20 09:00 PM

Man.. rough week for World Series winners... wonder if there are other teams they'll find who cheated...
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/14/20 10:27 PM

Dang ; what kind of money do the Twins have ?????
Posted by: cfrs15

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/14/20 11:18 PM

Originally Posted By: waterdawg
Dang ; what kind of money do the Twins have ?????


The same as the Indians, except they are willing to spend.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 01:31 PM

j/c...

Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 01:37 PM

Wonder if Brantley was a player in on this ?
Posted by: Dave

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 01:41 PM

He was still an Indian when this was going on. Whether it continued in 2019, who knows?
Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 01:55 PM

Couldn't remember . Lack of brain cells today .. Or most days.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 02:16 PM

The Astros were caught in 2018 as well by the Indians (Astros employee caught with video recording device near dugout) and Red Sox (had Astros guy removed that was taping near dugout as well). Indians had even warned the Red Sox prior to the start of the series.

Pretty safe bet it was still going on in 2019.
Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 02:38 PM

Wow.

Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 02:49 PM

What?...

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 03:03 PM





Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 03:15 PM

Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 03:37 PM

How the 3-batter minimum will affect the Tribe

https://www.mlb.com/indians/news/indians-three-batter-minimum-strategy


By Mandy Bell @MandyBell02
28 minutes ago
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CLEVELAND -- Whether Indians manager Terry Francona is on board or not, there is change coming to Major League Baseball in 2020.

For the first time, a rule will be implemented that requires pitchers to face at least three batters or pitch to the conclusion of the half inning, excluding situations that involve injury or illness. This was created as an effort to reduce the number of pitching changes, thus cutting down the average time per game.

The change will cause all 30 clubs to have to strategize a bit differently than in years past, but the Indians will likely be one of the teams who will struggle with it the most.

ďI don't understand it. I don't think I'm ever going to,Ē Francona said. ďBut we will certainly do the best we can and adapt, and I'm sure when we get to Spring Training, we'll spend a ton of time on the best way to embrace it -- because, I mean, when the season starts, nobody's going to care if I like it or dislike it.Ē

How much will it actually impact the club?

The numbers over the past few years have been clear: the number of LOOGYs (lefty one-out guys) in the bullpen -- and in the game -- are decreasing. Plus, the majority of relief appearances made across the Majors last year would not violate the new rule. However, the Indians led the Majors in 2019 in what will now be considered violations with 44 instances, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. The Cubs and Diamondbacks were right behind them with 39 violations.

The Tribe also faced three or more hitters in 426 individual appearances last season, which ranked the fewest among all 30 clubs. The Red Sox owned the most with 566.

Undoubtedly, Francona prefers to cater to matchups, and his methods worked last year to lead a bullpen that averaged the slowest fastball in the Majors (90.8 mph) to the lowest ERA in the big leagues from the start of the season through the end of August (3.51). But now, he said heíll have to change his managerial style.

Watch the splits

This new rule now puts specialist relievers like left-hander ”liver Pťrez and righty Adam Cimber in tough spots. Why? The numbers may just speak for themselves.

When used in optimal matchups during the 2019 season:

Pťrez vs. left-handed batters: .207 batting average, .607 OPS, 26 strikeouts, 95 plate appearances
Cimber vs. right-handed batters: .244 batting average, .645 OPS, 31 strikeouts, 182 plate appearances

When used outside of their typical matchups:

Pťrez vs. right-handed batters: .286 batting average, .889 OPS, 22 strikeouts, 78 plate appearances
Cimber vs. left-handed batters: .296 batting average, .943 OPS, 10 strikeouts, 62 plate appearances

Of Pťrezís 67 overall appearances last year, 25 would be illegal in 2020, while just five of Cimberís 68 outings would violate the new rule. Itís not that the lefty and the submarine hurler canít last at least three batters or conclude an inning, itís the concern of what could happen if they have to face opposite-handed hitters.

For example, the Indians could still try to use Pťrez Ė or Cimber -- in a similar role, calling on him to enter an inning with two outs and a lefty at the plate. If he comes in and gets the out, then thereís no harm. But say there is a powerful right-handed hitter on deck when he enters, and he doesnít get the first batter out. Then the Indians are left holding their collective breath that he can escape the jam.

ďWe get to the ballpark early and we stay late, and the object is to try to do it better than the other people,Ē Francona said. ďSometimes, you're successful. Sometimes, you're not. But when you start to leave it to chance, that kind of goes against everything we live for and we believe in. And it's a hard one for me. I'm struggling with this.Ē

Importance of Karinchak and Clase

Although Pťrez and Cimber may struggle to find their footing to start the season until everyone is adjusted to the new strategies this rule will bring, itís important to note just how crucial the two young arms could be.

The Indians got a quick glimpse of James Karinchak in September, as he posted a 1.69 ERA in 5 1/3 innings. And while it may have been a small sample size, his splits against left-handed and right-handed hitters nearly mirrored the numbers he posted in the Minors last season:

Facing righties in MLB: .222 average, .633 OPS, one strikeout, 10 plate appearances
Facing lefties in MLB: .091 average, .174 OPS, seven strikeouts, 12 plate appearances
Facing righties in the Minors: .203 average, .591 OPS, 48 strikeouts, 90 plate appearances
Facing lefties in the Minors: .063 average, .241 OPS, 34 strikeouts, 57 plate appearances

Karinchakís numbers against lefties are absolutely dominant, but the key is that the 24-year-old can also get righties out consistently.

Now letís add newly acquired Emmanuel Clase to the mix. He will bring some velocity to the Tribeís Ďpen, owning a triple-digit cutter thatís played well in the big leagues thus far. In 2019, he threw 238 pitches that clocked in at 98+ mph, while the Tribe's pitchers only threw 12, collectively.

Last season, Clase made 21 appearances for the Rangers and posted a 2.31 ERA in 23 1/3 innings. He split the first half of the year between Class A Advanced and Double-A, pitching to a combined 2.82 ERA with 50 strikeouts in 44 2/3 frames while holding opponents to a .226 average.

When he got the call to the big leagues in August, his platoon splits proved that the Indians may have another reliable arm that they can lean on:

Facing left-handed batters: 11 1/3 innings, 10 hits, one homer, two walks, 10 strikeouts, 1.06 WHIP
Facing right-handed batters: 12 innings, 10 hits, one homer, four walks, 11 strikeouts, 1.17 WHIP

Itís certainly going to be an adjustment for the Indians, who were the most common offenders of the future rule last season. But they may be able to breathe a little easier, knowing they have some up-and-coming talent that could evolve into two huge weapons to combat the new three-batter minimum rule.
Posted by: Haus

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 04:06 PM

What!?

What a stupid rule. I get the idea behind speeding up the game but don't change rules that significantly affect the strategy of the game like that. You're not going to get fans who think the game is too boring because you made the game 10 minutes shorter. Meanwhile, you turn off the real fans who don't mind the bit longer games.

I can hardly wait until the first time a pitcher goes down with an injury (or an "injury"), and can't pitch all three batters.
Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 04:24 PM

Originally Posted By: GratefulDawg



Posted by: GratefulDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 04:28 PM

Posted by: THROW LONG

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/16/20 05:42 PM

I stopped watching baseball altogether in 2000, and it may have been a really really good decision. I feel better never giving it a thought.

I heard the Angels won the World Series in 2003, but beyond that, I may not have seen or heard 10 minutes, except one occasion, but, somehow,
I still feel like I knew the names Carlos Beltran, and Terry Francona.

They had a scandal? Shucks, Not sorry I missed it.

A watch of that 5 second video of the trash can noise before a pitch? Seemed pretty dang obvious, what took em so long to figure it out?
Posted by: willitevachange

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 09:13 AM

J/C

This whole baseball thing is CRAZY.

Was listening to Je'Rod Cherry and Matt Fontana talking about it, and they had made a great point.

Think about all the guys and teams this effected, and their eventual outcome.

What if the Tribe doesn't get rocked in that series? Is Kluber still here? Do we win a title and eventually fill the stands and are able to keep Frankie? The outcome of our team and is composition could be extremely different right now.

Then, think about all the guys that were bubble guys on the mound, who were sent down or had their careers sent off track.

IMO, they should be stripped of their title and banned for a year (the entire team).
Posted by: Dawgs4Life

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 09:35 AM

Itís certainly crazy ... and that thing with the buzzers makes it even more convoluted
Posted by: Homewood Dog

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 10:55 AM

I realize more than one city is involved with cheating but I can't help but see how much the Boston teams are involved. The Pats have been accused and fined in the past over cheating and also lost draft picks. They just got accused this past season of filming a game illegally. The Red Sox were accused of steroid use during their World Series wins in 2004 and 2007. Players like Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz were named in reports as well as a few others. It's telling that they hired Alex Cora as manager who was the alleged mastermind behind the cheating. IIRC Cora was suspected of cheating while he was a coach in Houston but it wasn't proven until now. Coincidence? Even the Celtics have been accused of some dubious actions in the past when Red A. was running things.
Posted by: willitevachange

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 12:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
I realize more than one city is involved with cheating but I can't help but see how much the Boston teams are involved. The Pats have been accused and fined in the past over cheating and also lost draft picks. They just got accused this past season of filming a game illegally. The Red Sox were accused of steroid use during their World Series wins in 2004 and 2007. Players like Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz were named in reports as well as a few others. It's telling that they hired Alex Cora as manager who was the alleged mastermind behind the cheating. IIRC Cora was suspected of cheating while he was a coach in Houston but it wasn't proven until now. Coincidence? Even the Celtics have been accused of some dubious actions in the past when Red A. was running things.
Well, to be fair - it doubt its a Boston issue, an more of a "they were the ones that got caught" issue.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was more widespread than is being let on.
Posted by: Homewood Dog

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 12:17 PM

That's true and I agree but Boston teams seem to be right in the middle of this for years.
Posted by: DiamDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 04:27 PM

My favorite part will be when some of them go into the HOF yet Rose did nothing close to this as a player or even as a manager canít get in ... gotta love baseball ...

On a side note ... happy Bregmanís smack dab in the middle of it ... heís an arrogant butt hole ... couldnít be more deserving ... thumbsup
Posted by: ExclDawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 05:18 PM

Originally Posted By: Homewood Dog
That's true and I agree but Boston teams seem to be right in the middle of this for years.


Probably because it's the New York reporters trying to catch them.
Posted by: Hammer

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/17/20 07:17 PM

where in NE are you Homewood?
Posted by: Day of the Dawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/18/20 02:29 PM

There is a phrase in college sports that I believe applies to all sports, If your not cheating you are not trying.
Posted by: MemphisBrownie

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/22/20 07:44 AM

Lolz.

Posted by: Milk Man

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/22/20 10:47 PM

j/c...

Posted by: waterdawg

Re: MLB "Hot Stove League" thread - 01/23/20 09:48 AM

The more I think about the Players getting on pass on signal steal the madder I get .. They are the game .. they [censored] in their own house !