With the World Series possibly down to its last game, the MLB off-season is about to begin. Post your trade rumors, transactions, etc, here.
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For starters, MLB.com is reporting that the Dodgers will pursue the Indians' Francisco Lindor this off-season. The names being discussed are expected be from a group of Dodgers' prospects including SS Gavin Luxe, RHP Dustin Mays, C Keibert Ruiz, RHP Josiah Gray, and SS Jeter Downs. Current Dodger SS Corey Seager could also be involved.
I would much prefer to sign Lindor to a long term contract but if we were to trade him the LA Dodgers would be the way to go. They have a lot of really good young talent and a very very deep and talented minor league system.
I wish Lindor could be an Indian for his entire career, but the Indians can't pay one guy $35M per year for 10-12 years, nor should they. By most accounts, they can maximize their return for Lindor by trading him this off-season, because the team that gets him would have control for 2 years, and the inside track to sign him long term, providing they have the financial wherewithal to do so. Which the Dodgers most definitely do.
But if we do trade Lindor now we need to get back a haul, take someone to the cleaners, or else I'd rather keep him for one more year and go for it all in 2020.
Well the President and the GM of my Reds both said that there will be a nice increase in the Reds payroll next year so that's good news. They got to find a lead-off hitter and some bullpen help.
I wish Lindor could be an Indian for his entire career, but the Indians can't pay one guy $35M per year for 10-12 years, nor should they. By most accounts, they can maximize their return for Lindor by trading him this off-season, because the team that gets him would have control for 2 years, and the inside track to sign him long term, providing they have the financial wherewithal to do so. Which the Dodgers most definitely do.
But if we do trade Lindor now we need to get back a haul, take someone to the cleaners, or else I'd rather keep him for one more year and go for it all in 2020.
Just look at the Angels, Phillies and Padres as to what happens when you sign position players to big time contracts. Actually, looking at the list of "top earners" in MLB, you have to go all the way down to Giancarlo Stanton at (10th-14th depending on the website) before you find a position player that made the playoffs this year. And even Yankee fans think he's not living up to that contract. Next highest is Josh Donaldson at #20.
Pitching is what you have to pay for. Number 1 and 2 on the list? World Series Champions Strasburg and Scherzer, who Washington elected to pay instead of Bryce Harper.
I wish Lindor could be an Indian for his entire career, but the Indians can't pay one guy $35M per year for 10-12 years, nor should they. By most accounts, they can maximize their return for Lindor by trading him this off-season, because the team that gets him would have control for 2 years, and the inside track to sign him long term, providing they have the financial wherewithal to do so. Which the Dodgers most definitely do.
But if we do trade Lindor now we need to get back a haul, take someone to the cleaners, or else I'd rather keep him for one more year and go for it all in 2020.
Gotta go one more year while the window is still open... A. The difference in compensation wouldn't change much. B. Winning the series could be the one wildcard that would entice him to stay.
I agree with you. A couple baseball axioms that come to mind ... (1) when you think you have all the pitching anyone could want, you need more pitching, and (2) good pitching always beats good hitting.
Gotta go one more year while the window is still open...
Actually, I think the Indians "window" goes well beyond 2020. They might (probably will) lose Kluber after 2020, but they'll still have Clevenger, Bieber, Carrasco ( ), Civale, Plesac, and Plutko, along with a good group of prospects coming up soon. Our front office seems to have become very good at developing young pitching. Its a really good turn of events that bodes well for the future.
It’ll be interesting to see what the Astros do here ... they are set to lose a few key parts IIRC
Gerrit Cole is a free agent. I read that during a post game interview in the locker room, he took off his Astros hat and put on a hat with the logo of his agent, Scott Boros, stating that he was now technically unemployed. A real class act ...
It’ll be interesting to see what the Astros do here ... they are set to lose a few key parts IIRC
Gerrit Cole is a free agent. I read that during a post game interview in the locker room, he took off his Astros hat and put on a hat with the logo of his agent, Scott Boros, stating that he was now technically unemployed. A real class act ...
The Cleveland Indians have officially exercised Corey Kluber’s 2020 option. His name still could come up in trade talks this offseason. There was no guessing whether or not the Cleveland Indians were going to pick up Corey Kluber‘s 2020 option.
The team said it was going to happen, but the news just recently became official.
Pour one out for Jason Kipnis.
Kluber is set to make $17.5 million this season and has an $18 million club option for 2021. The fact he is under team control through 2021 may have some teams calling about a potential trade this offseason. If he isn’t traded, I suspect the calls will continue up until the trade deadline.
The Indians are in an interesting spot. What happens with Francisco Lindor essentially signals which direction the team will go. If it is clear an extension with him is impossible, his name could come up in trade rumors during the season. If that is the case, moving Kluber and just stockpiling talent could be a move to prevent a massive rebuild that would occur if both players leave with nothing in return.
Losing Lindor would be crushing. But trading Kluber may not have a similar negative effect. He missed nearly all of last season and the rotation never skipped a beat. Guys like Aaron Civale and Zach Plesac still need to prove themselves over a larger sample, but the initial signs were positive.
Then there is the trio of Shane Bieber, Carlos Carrasco, and Mike Clevinger. Put those three up against any other starting trio. Adding Kluber back to the mix is like a bonus.
Trading star players is no fun. Fans are attached and the players have done great things for the team. However, if Kluber is set to be in a declining stage of his career the Indians would be smart to move him.
That is on the team to get a good feel of where he is heading into 2020.
Surprised by Tyler Olson A lefty reliever with some promise Had a good showing a year ago Not so great this year but I thought there was an injury issue Even if not, I still think too soon to give up on him especially with as much help as our bullpen needs
In award news, Roberto Perez won a Gold Glove for catching, and also the Wilson Defensive Player of the Year award (which is separate from GGs). Lindor also won a Gold Glove for Shortstop. I read that Perez didn't have a passed ball all year, which hasn't happened since the 1930's. That's nuts!
Major League Baseball rules do not allow teams to use electronic technology to steal signs from the catcher and then relay what pitch is coming to the hitter. But there is an ongoing issue in the league with teams stealing signs electronically, according to a report from The Athletic on Tuesday.
While this issue stretches beyond any one team, the Astros are the club most implicated in the report. Many examples in the story come from 2017, when they won the World Series. Former Astros pitcher Mike Fiers spoke on the record about Houston's sign-stealing system at Minute Maid Park, which included a TV monitor with a feed from a center field camera near the dugout steps. Astros players would try to decode their opponents' signs and then alert hitters if an off-speed pitch was coming by banging on a dugout trash can, per the report.
Fiers, who pitched for the Astros from 2015-17, said his former team was "advanced and willing to go above and beyond to win." Here's more:
"That's not playing the game the right way," said Fiers.
[...]
"I just want the game to be cleaned up a little bit because there are guys who are losing their jobs because they're going in there not knowing," Fiers said. "Young guys getting hit around in the first couple of innings starting a game, and then they get sent down. It's (B.S.) on that end. It's ruining jobs for younger guys. The guys who know are more prepared. But most people don't. That's why I told my team. We had a lot of young guys with Detroit (in 2018) trying to make a name and establish themselves. I wanted to help them out and say, 'Hey, this stuff really does go on. Just be prepared.'"
Former MLB pitcher Danny Farquhar also went on the record with The Athletic. Farquhar, who pitched for the White Sox in 2017, recalled how he noticed a banging in the Astros dugout when his catcher called for a changeup. Sure enough, video from a Farquhar appearance backs up his claim (hat-tip to DBITLefty on Twitter for the excellent find):
Remember, there were allegations against the Astros this postseason about whistling when an off-speed pitch was coming.
But this issue isn't just limited to the Astros. The Red Sox and Yankees have dealt with allegations as well. The story makes it clear that most teams in baseball believe the Astros go further than any other team, but this piece is important, too:
One Astros source was adamant: The team should not become the poster child for sign stealing. Not when so much is going on with other clubs that MLB has not stopped, they said.
The Astros lost the World Series in seven games after a franchise-record 107 win regular-season in 2019. In fact, three of their four highest win totals ever have come in the past three years, a stretch that includes their first World Series title and two pennants. Of course, their playoff run was marred a major off-field issue, as assistant general manager Brandon Taubman's was fired after harassing female reporters in the clubhouse. MLB is investigating Taubman, and the league could expand that inquiry into the franchise's sign stealing, according to The Athletic.
Expect the issue of high-tech sign stealing to be a key point of discussion this offseason for Major League Baseball.
Astros need to face some severe sanctions for this, like lost draft picks, suspensions, or a very large fine, or a combination of the three things. I guess we'll see whether Commissioner Rob Manfred is as big a lame-o as I think he is.
There can be only one lovable loser in Chicago, and while the Cubs have been over .500 for the past 5 years, they have been the team that could get away with it ..... while the Sox have been under .500 for the past 7, and they cannot get away with it.
New Royals owner John Sherman was reportedly in line to purchase Cleveland Indians
Nov 21, 2019 By Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- John Sherman, a minority owner of the Indians since 2016, has become one of their competitors. Reportedly, he was in line to become their owner as well.
Sherman’s $1 billion purchase of the Kansas City Royals was approved by a unanimous vote from MLB owners on Thursday at their meetings in Arlington, Tex. The Royals and Indians are rivals in the AL Central.
A statement by Indians owner Paul Dolan says Sherman’s minority shares in the Indians will be placed in “a trust that is controlled by an independent trustee” until Sherman is able to sell them.
Dolan added in his statement, "Moving forward, this transition will not alter our organization’s operational approach. We remain committed to our pursuit of winning the World Series, while creating a compelling fan experience.”
The Kansas City Star reported that Sherman, according to MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred, originally joined the Indians ownership group with the idea of becoming the controlling partner. But he gave that up to purchase the Royals.
An Indians spokesman said the team had no comment when asked about that report.
Sherman made his fortune in natural gas while working in Kansas City. Sherman purchased the Royals from David Glass. When Glass bought the Royals in 2000, he paid $96 million, according to Bob Nightengale of Sports Illustrated.
Dolan, after a long search for a minority owner, sold part of the Indians to Sherman in 2016. Sherman’s cash influx helped the Indians sign free agent DH Edwin Encarnacion to a three-year, $60 million deal after the Indians reached the World Series that year.
The 2019 season marked the 20th year that the Dolan family has owned the Indians. Paul Dolan has been the primary control person of the franchise since January, 2013.
The Royals won the World Series in 2015, but they’ve struggled since. They just finished the 2019 season at 59-103, 42 games behind the AL Central champion Twins.
“I’m deeply appreciative of the commissioner’s office and my fellow owners for their confidence and trust in the vote today,” Sherman told reporters at after the purchase was approved. “It’s a responsibility that I’ll take very seriously.”
Said Dolan, “We want to congratulate John and his group on officially becoming majority owners of their hometown Kansas City Royals.”
I'm guessing the Dolan family was looking for $1.3-1.4B for the Indians. Forbes lists their value at $1.2B and the Dolan's paid $320M for them in '99. They are, unfortunately for us, equity-rich but cash-poor.
If you can't afford to keep him, it would be "sinful" not to maximize what you could get in return for him in a trade. The only question is whether that would be now or at the trade deadline next July. I think it would be now.
They better get an all time haul if they trade him before the season.
I don't think the Bartolo Colon for Grady Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Brandon Phillips type deals happen any more because the market for Lindor is restricted by the relatively few teams that are willing and able to sign him for the more than $35M per year he will command. But unless the Indians are willing to keep him, pay him, and then lose him to free agency after the 2022 season, it stands to reason that the best time to optimize the return for him is now because any team that trades for him now will at least have him for 2 full seasons.
A sad fact of the financial structure of Baseball.
The big market rich teams feed on the weak.
It is the part of baseball that is really frustrating. I love Baseball. Think it is the greatest game devised by man.
But I hate that some teams start every year with little to no chance of competing. That a team finds, then develops a player and can not afford to keep him.
It destroys the fiber of the fans relationship to his team. You want guys like Chipper Jones to play their whole career with one team. It is good for the game.
Lindor will get moved. Sicking to think he could a Yankee or Dodger.
Yeah the big market Twins really beat up on the Indians last year.
Maybe the Indians should spend money on players rather than pocketing money. Cleveland was in their sweet spot of competing and instead of spending they were trying to trade away players all off-season and went into the season with a horrible outfield.
Not signing Brantley was a failure by the Tribe FO. They stuck w/ him all throughout his injuries and bailed when he was hit FA.
The big marquee bat signings (Harper, Machado, Stanton, Cespedes) haven't really proven to be successful so far or have been major difference makers. Pitching still wins for the most part.
I doubt the Indians, under the Dolans, will ever pony up the cash for Lindor unless they can lineup another successor to ownership to infuse some cash.
I'd like them to see at least make an offer on an Arenado-like deal.
As much as I hate to see money be reason to see Lindor go, I do not despise the Dolans like many. They hire smart people, commit to them, let them do their jobs and provide a consistently good product on the field.
With the ownership routinely vilified locally, you'd think the Indians were losing 100 games every year and the Browns were perennial SB contenders.
I'll be going into my 5th year as a Tribe season ticket holder (1/2 season) and am looking forward to some summer nights at the ballpark.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Indians go after Scooter Gennett, who was the Reds 2B last year when he finally got off the DL. He had 23 HR, 92 RBI, and a .310 BA in 2018.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Indians go after Scooter Gennett, who was the Reds 2B last year when he finally got off the DL. He had 23 HR, 92 RBI, and a .310 BA in 2018.
he’d be a pretty good guy to target .... good call
Depends on if you get the pre-injury or the post-injury Scooter. He was on IR for 3 months with a strained groin to start the season and didn't come back till the end of June and when he did he stunk so bad that Cincy traded him to San Fran for cash after a month of little production, San Fran cut him a month later when they got almost nothing out of him.
If a person were to read the original article by Jeff Passan instead of just reading this misleading headline (I am not saying that's what you did Milk Man) then they would learn that what was said was:
Quote:
Lindor, multiple executives said, "is going to get traded." They're not sure if it's this winter or next summer, but considering how disciplined the Indians are, they want to maximize Lindor's value, and doing so means trading him before the July 31 deadline. Maybe if Cleveland is excellent, it's a different story, but executives who covet Lindor believe it's the logical outcome, because the Indians don't want to find themselves in a similar situation as Boston, with Betts' value diminished because he's so close to free agency.
I do expect him to be traded, it would have to be a major haul to trade him this year or the Indians absolutely bottom out early. I would be somewhat surprised if it happens this year.
Other than maybe the Dodgers, I'm not sure how many teams have the value in return to warrant trading him this year, but next year is likely, unfortunately.
Passan's article had a lot of other trade possibilities as well.
The system in place has ruined it for sure ... I don’t blame the teams much because it’s within the rules and their right. They pay a luxury tax to do so.
Until there is a hard cap (and owners all agree to have a floor) then this will continue
Dodgers talking Francisco Lindor trade with Indians
Bob Nightengale, USA TODAY Dec. 11, 2019
SAN DIEGO — Hoping to make a big splash as their World Series drought continues, the Los Angeles Dodgers are discussing a trade for shortstop Francisco Lindor with the Cleveland Indians, according to a person with direct knowledge of the talks.
The person spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because talks are ongoing.
Lindor will command an extensive return and the Indians are seeking a package centered around Dodgers top prospects 2B Gavin Lux and RHP Dustin May, both of whom reached the majors in 2019.
The 26-year-old Lindor is under team control through 2021 but the Indians are likely unable to offer him the kind of contract he should get on the open market.
Lindor debuted in 2015, finishing runner-up in AL Rookie of the Year voting and has been an All-Star the past four seasons. He won Gold Glove awards at shortstop in 2016 and 2019.
The Dodgers already have Corey Seager at shortstop, but he is also a free agent after the 2021 season.
I'm not that familiar with these prospects, but it doesn't seem like enough for Lindor. I think the deal needs to include Alex Verdugo. Or maybe expand the deal to include Kluber, since the Dodgers missed on Gerrit Cole, to include Verdugo AND a second top pitching prospect beside May.
Unless the Tribe is going to get in to discussions to sign a Cole Garrett, then they need to look at trading Lindor and Kluber.
If you know you aren't going to be able to sign them, stock the pantry with a few blue chips and ride them until you can't sign them.
Life as a Indians fan. Unless a salary cap of sorts enters baseball, NY, Chicago, LA are always going to be able to pay more due to local money. Just a fact of scale.
They make more money from radio and TV rights, advertising, etc.
No way around it. Cleveland is a fairly small market team. The only way to a championship team is with young guys on the rise.
MLB's player union is too strong to ever allow a salary cap of any kind - hard, soft, or otherwise. The biggest disparity among the teams' ability to compete is TV broadcast income. Not only do some of the teams have a large advantage based on market size, there are also teams that own either all or a percentage of their own networks. For example, the Dodgers own 100% of their broadcast revenues and only the portion that they choose to pay themselves are part of the revenue sharing agreement. The broadcast revenues that are collected by their self-owned network are sheltered from revenue sharing.
Edit: On second thought, Austin Barnes isn't their Catcher phenom I thought he was at first (Ruiz) - Barnes is a journeyman - so I suppose this rumor could be legit. Its a great deal if true.
Report: Indians have discussed trading Mike Clevinger in potential Francisco Lindor deal
According to David Vassegh of SportsNet LA, the Cleveland Indians have also discussed trading Mike Clevinger in a potential deal involving Francisco Lindor. Author: Ben Axelrod https://www.wkyc.com/article/sports/mlb/...c5-da88927a244b On Wednesday, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reported that trade talks between the Cleveland Indians and Los Angeles Dodgers have gotten serious.
And according to a new report, Lindor may not be the only star player the Tribe sends to Southern California.
Appearing on the MLB Network on Thursday afternoon, David Vassegh of SportsNetLA and AM 570 LA Sports confirmed the Indians' discussions with the Dodgers and interest in Los Angeles' top prospect, Gavin Lux. But in doing so, Vassegh also revealed that an even bigger deal between the two teams could be in play, with Cleveland having also discussed the possibility of sending pitcher Mike Clevinger to L.A.
“The Dodgers have a lot of prospect capital and not just guys, but guys that can make a difference. Gavin Lux, from what I’ve been told, is a guy that the Indians would want in any deal for Francisco Lindor," Vassegh said. "And from what I’ve found out the last 24 hours, there have been different versions of the trade discussed that would involve Lindor and not Corey Kluber, but Lindor and possibly Mike Clevinger.”
While any trade involving Lindor would be considered a blockbuster, adding Clevinger to such package could make it seismic. Given Corey Kluber's recent injury history -- and availability on the trade market -- Clevinger projects as arguably the Indians' top pitcher entering 2020 after posting a 2.71 ERA, 13-4 record and 169 strikeouts in 21 starts last season.
Cleveland, however, has never been afraid to deal from a position of strength and could feel comfortable doing just that given the current state of its pitching staff. Aside from Kluber and Clevinger, the Indians lay claim to a trio of promising young arms in Shane Bieber, Zach Plesac and Aaron Civale and have also had reported interest in acquiring the Dodgers' No. 2 prospect, pitcher Dustin May, in a prospective trade.
In addition to Lux and May, Cleveland could also inquire about outfielder Alex Verdugo, who hit for a .294 average (.817 OPS), 12 home runs and 44 RBIs in 106 games at the big league level last season. The Dodgers likely wouldn't part with three promising players unless they were getting back proven star players in return and a package including Lindor and Clevinger would certainly qualify as just that.
I think the Indians are going into this talk knowing they cannot afford Lindor once he becomes a FA (duh), but don't necessarily want to trade him with the playoff aspirations that still exist. However, if a team meets their extremely high demands now, I think they might pull the trigger.
These talks remind me of the Kluber trade rumors last season. Ask for the world and see who takes the bait.
I would consider trading Kluber, even though I hate trading pitching, because its anybody's guess whether he can regain his C.Y. form. But I don't want to trade Clevinger.
Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.
Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.
No doubt it has to be a really good deal. But, we are never going to be able to sign him. I offer him my best deal now.
If that doesn't fly, I trade him to the highest bidder.
You have to. You just offered the most money you could.....you have to move on while you still have the leverage of time.
Like I said before, a city like Cleveland needs to win with young players and a few decent vets mingled in the mix. We can't out and out buy a world series.
I think the Indians probably feel like they have already made their best offer to extend Lindor. I know they already offered $100M/7-8years to him 2 years ago when they still held 4 years control and he was making a lot less than the $16M he'll make this year, and he declined the offer. They really can't pay one guy the $35M kind of money that Machado and Harper got and still maintain a major league roster, and that's the kind of money he'll command.
Agreed, their leverage with regards to trading Lindor will never be higher. Rather than accepting a "good" deal, they should hold out for a great deal.
I'll be extremely surprised if Lindor is traded this season. I doubt any team will give up the haul required to make it an offer they cannot refuse. Next year, yes, he's likely gone, unfortunately.
Trading Clevinger would really irk me.
I'm ok trading Kluber. Lots of young pitching talent. Get something for him while you can and the wheels come off him. He's trending down, not up, imo.
Wonder if you guys posting Twitter post would mind including a brief summary of its contents? For some reason, I'm not seeing Twitter posts for about the last week. Thanks.
Clase last season in the minors had 50 Ks in 44 2/3 innings, then was promoted to the majors and recorded 21 Ks in 23 1/3 innings. Has a cutter that reaches triple digits that he pairs with a slider.
Clase last season in the minors had 50 Ks in 44 2/3 innings, then was promoted to the majors and recorded 21 Ks in 23 1/3 innings. Has a cutter that reaches triple digits that he pairs with a slider.
It doesn't seem like enough for a two time CYA winner, unless maybe the Indians think Kluber's tank is getting low. Indians better spend at least some of that $17.5M they're saving on this year's payroll, or its gonna be a crapstorm of negativity from fans here.
I don't know much about the pitching prospect but the return, on the surface, feels a little light. I get age, contract, injury issues....still seems thin.
I am sure we'll try to get a huge return on Lindor, since he seems unlikely (at best) to re-sign here. I would be extremely ticked off if we trade Clevinger.
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park. To me he's an embarrassment and one of the worst owners in the majors. Guy is a joke. Are we keeping anybody? Getting a discount LaPorta back in return again? Prospects? Psssshhhhh.
A new entrant has emerged as a potential suitor for Francisco Lindor.
The Reds have been engaged with the Indians in talks about the superstar shortstop, according to a source, thrusting Cincinnati into a mix that reportedly includes the Dodgers and Padres, among other clubs. The clubs have not confirmed the talks.
• Six not-so-crazy Lindor trade proposals
It’s unclear whether the talks have gained any traction, though the fact that the Reds are showing interest is yet another sign that the club is serious about contending in a wide-open National League Central.
Cincinnati has been aggressive on the trade front during the past year, acquiring Yasiel Puig and Trevor Bauer in a pair of notable deals. The Reds have already made one big move this winter, signing Mike Moustakas to a four-year, $64 million deal to play second base. Wade Miley was signed on Wednesday to fill out the rotation, but a big bat remains on the Reds’ offseason shopping list. Lindor would certainly fit that category.
Reds general manager Nick Krall, speaking Wednesday as the club introduced Miley, was asked about the pursuit of a bat.
“Whether it’s the trade market or the free-agent market, we’ll do whatever we can to keep improving this club,” Krall said.
“You’ve got to have teams that are willing to trade players. I think it’s up to those teams. We’ve had talks in the trade market, and we’ve also had them in the free-agent market.”
Krall also said that even after signing Moustakas and Miley for a combined $79 million, the Reds have enough payroll flexibility to make more moves.
The Reds have a number of appealing young players who could be included in a trade package (Nick Senzel, Jonathan India, Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo), and they have a recent history of dealing with Cleveland, having completed the three-way deal last July that landed Bauer in Cincinnati.
Cleveland traded Corey Kluber to Texas last week, clearing about $17 million from the 2020 payroll. Cots’ Baseball Contracts estimates that Lindor will earn $17 million next season, his second of three arbitration-eligible years. He’s under club control through 2021, after which he’s expected to command a mammoth deal that could easily surpass the $300 million mark.
To move their franchise player, the Indians will surely need to be overwhelmed by an offer for Lindor. Whether the Reds are prepared to make such an offer remains to be seen.
Mark Feinsand, an executive reporter, originally joined MLB.com as a reporter in 2001. Mark Sheldon contributed to this report.
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.
Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.
I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.
Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.
I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.
Everything you just said is nice but where's our world series? That's the ultimate goal. We can't settle for just good enough, don't have time for that.
When you trade away proven players that is just about the dumbest thing you can do. It puts you further away from winning or even getting to the series.
Thanks guys ! 21 out of 30 ain't great .. Use to go all the time when I live in Cleveland .. But then again I grew up playing ball and a way different America.
I have been amazed at how the Tribe turns out Young dynamite pitchers either trough draft or trade .. No Cap has always hurt the game ..
Use to go all the time when I lived in Cleveland .. But then again I grew up playing ball and a way different America.
Same here. My wife and I used to go to 25 or so games per year back at the old stadium in the 80's and early 90's. Section 22, Upper Reserved, tip the beer guy so he comes back, LOL.
I also grew up playing baseball all summer. Mornings we'd bike up to Navy Park on Ridge Rd for our league games. Off days we'd take off looking for pickup games at either Brookside Park next to the Zoo, Edgewater Park down by the lake, Gunning Park on the far west side, or one of the many school playgrounds on the west side of Cleveland. Nowadays, I drive by beautifully manicured ball fields in the west suburb I live in, and they are usually either empty or they're using the outfields for soccer practice. A different America for sure.
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.
Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.
I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.
Everything you just said is nice but where's our world series? That's the ultimate goal. We can't settle for just good enough, don't have time for that.
When you trade away proven players that is just about the dumbest thing you can do. It puts you further away from winning or even getting to the series.
Not if there's no way to re-sign them.
Nobody is going to buy an MLB team and throw more money into it than they can ever hope to bring in. These millionaires and billionaires don't get to that level by wasting money.
Well to use colloquial English , we grew up in the same Hood ; West 73rd...I'm a few years older than you but your ball parks where mine also .. Us old guys ( just like every generation ) talk about the way it use to be.. Before Tech. we lived out doors , we all played some kind of ball at different levels. Opening day at old Munnie was a site to behold.
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer ABOUT FREE AGENTS
Now that the Indians made the Corey Kluber deal with Texas and saved his $17-million salary, they have created some cash to sign an infielder.
Jose Ramirez has offered to play second or third base. He prefers to stay at third, and the Indians believe it’s his best position.
Now, they are shopping for a second baseman, and here are some names on their list. I don’t know the order of preference. Besides, money will be a major factor.
My guess is the Tribe would like to sign an established veteran to play second on a one-year contract.
Anyway, here are the names:
1. Jonathan Schoop: The 27-year-old had a good year with the Twins, batting .256 (.777 OPS) with 23 HR and 59 RBI. Some of the Moneyball executives don’t like him: 20 walks compared to 116 strikeouts. He has hit at least 20 HR in each of his last four seasons. I think the Indians really like him.
2. Brian Dozier: The former Twins second baseman was with the World Champion Washington Nationals in 2019, batting .238 (.771 OPS) with 20 HR and 54 RBI. He’s 32 and some executives think he may be on the decline. I’ve always liked his game, and I think that’s also true of the Indians. Dozier hit 22 HR for his career vs. the Tribe.
3. Starlin Castro: It seems as if he’s played forever because he’s been in the Majors for 10 years. But he is only 29 years old. Castro batted .270 (.736 OPS) with 22 HR and 86 RBI for Miami last season. Talk about playing every day, Castro was like the National Anthem... out there for all 162 games.
4. Cesar Hernandez: He is the player most linked to the Tribe in rumors, but I don’t think he’s rated far above others on this list. The 29-year-old Hernandez batted .279 (.741 OPS) with 14 HR and 71 RBI for the Philadelphia Phillies.
I hear the Indians are not interested in former Tribe infielders Asdrubal Cabrera or Jason Kipnis – at least not at this point.
The 32-year-old Kipnis had an OK year for the Tribe, batting .245 (.715 OPS) with 17 HR and 65 RBI. The Indians declined his $16.5-million option for 2020.
There is some concern about injuries with Kipnis. He dealt with a calf muscle problem early last season. In 2017, he was on the disabled list twice with hamstring injuries.
The market for him will probably not be very strong. That also can be true for someone such as Dozier, who batted .227 (.718 OPS) over the last two seasons. But he did hit 41 HR in 286 games, so he does have some power.
The four names on the list range from decent to pretty good. Probably two will receive multi-year deals, the others won’t.
But it’s hard to know to whom the money will flow. My guess is the Tribe will wait and watch as that happens before making a move.
ABOUT THE COREY KLUBER TRADE
1. When they left the Winter Meetings, the Indians had an idea about the value of Kluber in a trade. Most offers were for players in the Class A level, much like the Justin Verlander deal by Detroit in 2017.
2. The Tigers received three Houston “prospects” in return: Franklin Perez, Daz Cameron and Jake Rogers. Two years later, none have made an impact in Detroit. Perez has significant arm problems. Cameron batted .214 for Class AAA Toledo. Rogers hit .125 with 51 strikeouts in 128 plate appearances in Detroit.
3. The Indians targeted Texas Rangers pitcher Emmanuel Clase because he’s already made it to the majors by the age of 21. The righthander had a 2.31 ERA in 23 1/3 innings for Texas, fanning 21 compared to six walks. His average fastball was 99 mph.
4. The Indians see Clase as a closer at some point. Unlike many relievers who can hit 100 mph on the radar gun, Clase’s fastball has movement. Remember how Bryan Shaw had a 93-mph cutter that swooped away from righties? That’s the kind of movement Clase has on the 99-mph fastball.
5. Some fans have focused on Delino DeShields Jr. being in the trade. The Indians took him rather than a low minors prospect. He is considered an above-average center fielder. He stole 24 bases in 30 attempts.
6. Yes, the Indians plan to open with Oscar Mercado in center. There is not much depth in the outfield. Franmil Reyes will try to prove he can play at least half the games in right field. They have Jordan Luplow in left field.
7. Brad Zimmer is trying to come back from major shoulder surgery that wiped out most of the last two seasons. Tyler Naquin is recovering from major ACL knee surgery and probably won’t be ready at least until June. Greg Allen batted .229 and could not take much advantage of playing time.
8. Jake Bauers had a chance to be a regular left fielder but batted only .226. Like Allen, he spent part of the year in the minors. DeShields is a career .246 hitter (.668 OPS) with little power and good speed. The Indians see the right-handed hitter as a fourth outfielder. As of now, he is ahead of Allen, Zimmer and Bauers.
9. A player who is set up to be a spring phenom is Daniel Johnson, who batted a combined .290 (.868 OPS) with 19 HR and 77 RBI between Class AA and AAA last season. The 24-year-old outfielder impressed the Tribe last spring in Goodyear. Then he had the good season, finishing strong by batting .306 at Class AAA Columbus in 84 games.
10. The trade was primarily about cutting payroll and adding a MLB bullpen-ready arm in Clase, who is under team control for five years. They will use some of the money saved from the Kluber deal to shop for an infielder, a reliever and an outfielder.
11. As for the supposed “deadline” on a Francisco Lindor trade, the Indians could tell teams that. It doesn’t preclude them from changing their minds in January or later. Or perhaps, it’s just another rumor. Certainly there are active trade talks happening with Lindor involved.
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.
Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.
I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.
Agree 100%. The Dolan's have been great owners. They run a stable franchise, have one of the best FOs in the league and consistently put out a good product.
It amazes me how they get so much flack from fans, meanwhile the Browns are an annual dumpster fire and league embarrassment and fans show up in droves.
The Browns would be so lucky to have even half the success the Indians have had.
Can't wait to spend the summer up at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario.
Source: Indians agree with ex-Phillies 2B Cesar Hernandez
ESPN Dec 23, 2019
Second baseman Cesar Hernandez and the Cleveland Indians have agreed to a one-year, $6.25 million contract, sources familiar with the agreement told ESPN's Jeff Passan.
Hernandez, 29, became a free agent when he wasn't tendered a contract by the Philadelphia Phillies after a season in which he hit .279 with 14 home runs and a career-high 71 RBIs.
He avoided arbitration in 2019 by reaching a one-year, $7.75 million deal with Philadelphia, and he was again eligible for arbitration had he signed after the season.
Hernandez had been a starter with the Phillies since 2015, when he replaced Chase Utley. He led the team with a .294 batting average in both 2016 and 2017 then had a career-high 15 home runs in 2018. He has averaged 2.5 wins-above replacement over the past four seasons.
1. Jose Altuve (738) 2. D.J. LeMahieu (725) 3. Whit Merrifield (655) 4. Cesar Hernandez (635)
#Indians are getting a guy who can flat out swing the stick.
Cesar Hernandez's last four seasons: .279/.357/.395 slash line, 15 stolen bases per year. Has been about league average or a little better offensively. He'll be the starting second baseman, Jose Ramirez will remain at third, as the team preferred.
I've never seen him play, but by defensive stats, he appears a bit better than Kipnis in terms of range and DWAR. He can also play 3B, SS, and CF, plus he's a switch hitter. No idea whether he's a legit switch hitter or the Greg Allen type (as in not really).
Its been a busy off season for the White Sox. Yesterday they signed Edwin Encarnacion, after signing SP's Dallas Keuchel and Gio Gonzalez, along with C Yasmani Grandal. They also resigned their own FA slugger, Jose Abreu, and traded for OF Nomar Mazara. Throw in a good young core of SS Tim Anderson, 3B Yoan Moncada, and OF Eloy Jimenez and it appears that Chicago's other team is going to be a contender in the AL Central.
I want someone to ask this Dolan guy why he thinks fans should show up to the ball park.
Maybe they should show up because the team has been contenders for 15 out of the last 25 seasons, won 10 AL Central titles, made 11 playoff appearances, won 90+ games 10 times, won 100 or more games twice, won 3 ALCS's, and made 3 WS appearances. As opposed to certain other Cleveland teams who never fail to fail.
I get the bitterness about watching our top players leave, whether through free agency or trades, but the owners can only be faulted so much for trying to maintain a responsible business model in a sport that doesn't have a salary cap to level the playing field. Fans who wish the Dolans would sell should be careful what they wish for, because if some mega-billions individual buys the Indians and sees 2-3 years of attendance in the bottom 1/3 of the league, we might see the team moved to Vegas, Charlotte, Nashville, or elsewhere.
Agree 100%. The Dolan's have been great owners. They run a stable franchise, have one of the best FOs in the league and consistently put out a good product.
It amazes me how they get so much flack from fans, meanwhile the Browns are an annual dumpster fire and league embarrassment and fans show up in droves.
The Browns would be so lucky to have even half the success the Indians have had.
Can't wait to spend the summer up at the corner of Carnegie and Ontario.
If the Reds can afford to pay Lindor why can't we?
If the Reds can afford to pay Lindor why can't we?
I can't answer that. The two teams appear pretty close in franchise value and attendance. Forbes says that the Reds had an operating income (profit) of $37M while the Indians' was $16M, but none of these MLB owners will open their books for a hard look at how much they really make. I assume the Reds know what they can afford and likewise, so do the Indians.
Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.
Maybe the Reds are willing to pay up big for a 2 year window ..... and maybe the Indians are as well ..... but the Tribe has been a forward thinking team and if they get a blockbuster deal for Lindor, then they are also not afraid to make a huge deal.
Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.
They can afford him, they just don't want to pay him. It's much more fun to trade for young players and make more money.
I don't think that's right. This isn't the NFL - there's no salary cap, and only limited revenue sharing from a luxury tax on the very highest spenders. The only way the Indians can pay Lindor the $35M per year he'll command would be at the expense of the rest of their roster. Even if they expanded their payroll to $140M, that would be 25% of the total. At todays' payroll ($95M), it would be approaching 40%.
Both the Indians and Reds can afford Lindor this season, and maybe even next ..... but neither team can pony up $30+ million in 2 seasons.
They can afford him, they just don't want to pay him. It's much more fun to trade for young players and make more money.
I don't think that's right. This isn't the NFL - there's no salary cap, and only limited revenue sharing from a luxury tax on the very highest spenders. The only way the Indians can pay Lindor the $35M per year he'll command would be at the expense of the rest of their roster. Even if they expanded their payroll to $140M, that would be 25% of the total. At todays' payroll ($95M), it would be approaching 40%.
Its not my job to somehow divine the Indians' financial well being, but the author is a bit disingenuous when he discusses the Brewers with their $66M in operating revenues (profit) and then goes on to say that the Indians are right behind them in the ranking for revenues. The revenues for the Brewers were $288M while the Indians' revenues were $282M. But his basis for claiming that the Brewers were crying poor was that they had $66M in operating revenue, which is profit before taxes, interest owed, and expenses. The Indians' operating revenue (profit) was $16M.
Clearly, the Indians are not "right behind" the Brewers in profits ($66M > $16M; its 4X more), but I suppose that little detail didn't fit his narrative to bash the greedy owners.
Not a real big fan of the Dolan's , but they have kept a small market team in the thick of things for a lot of seasons.. Think they blew the STO sale money on some poor decisions .. But as I have said before , what they do with young pitchers is off the charts.. Just need the cash for a couple of serious BATS ...
Outfielder Luis Robert and the Chicago White Sox are in agreement on a six-year, $50 million contract that includes two club options, sources familiar with the deal tell ESPN.
Robert will begin the season in Chicago. No service-time manipulation necessary. Sox are gonna be good.
How do you say goodbye to your home? How do you say thank you to 400,000 people?
Cleveland is the only city I’ve known as a major leaguer. Playing for the Indians has been the biggest constant in my professional life. In 10 years there, I pitched pretty well — won some awards and went to the playoffs a few times. It was fun. But just as important as that, Cleveland was where I learned how to be a professional baseball player.
I’ve always been a show-up-and-go-to-work kind of guy, and there isn’t a city better suited to that blue-collar mentality than Cleveland. It’s been a perfect marriage ever since September 1, 2011, when the Indians called me up to the big leagues for the first time.
Cleveland was where I learned how to be a professional baseball player. It was the middle of the night when I got the phone call. I was actually trying to get some sleep while on a bus trip with the Columbus Clippers. We were on our way back home after a road trip to Louisville. This was it, my call-up. The moment I had been waiting for. It was happening. But I was so out of it that I remember the moment but not many specifics. No matter, I was ready. I had to be — I pitched that day.
It took another year of shuttling back and forth before the Indians finally added me to the rotation full-time in 2013. But I’m proud that I always did everything in my power to seize every opportunity and make the most of it. In 10 years in Cleveland, I never stopped doing that.
Everything my teammates and I did was always about trying to bring home a championship — especially after the Cavs won the NBA title in 2016. But that doesn’t mean we had any expectations. It was always about playing that day’s game, about not getting ahead of ourselves. When we went on our run to the World Series a few months later, we didn’t want to think that we had anything in the bag. We were pretty young, and almost no one on that team had playoff experience. Either you let the pressure affect you or you don’t. It might seem obvious, but in the World Series you know you’re still playing when there are 28 other teams that are not. That was the mentality. We’re still playing. One game at a time. You gotta put your head down and get to work.
Cleveland has embraced that mentality for as long as I’ve been there. That’s what people there do every day. As terrible as it felt not to win a championship, it was amazing the way the city embraced the team that year — in a way I can’t quite put into words. The outpouring of support from the entire fan base to the players and their families was special. The fans and the city didn’t beat us up over losing. They supported us.
For me, as the guy who took the hill in the deciding game of the World Series that year, that support was huge. When I started against the Cubs at Progressive Field for Game 7 in November 2016 I wanted to get it done — and there were 38,000 fans in that ballpark who wanted the same thing, too. You could feel it. It was electric.
But, unfortunately, we didn’t get it done. I never blame anyone or anything when things don’t go as planned. Instead, I put my head down and I get back to work. And that’s what we all did after that World Series: We dusted ourselves off, put our heads down and got back to work. That’s what you do when you’re from Cleveland.
There has been speculation that I pitched with injuries during the playoffs. To me, there’s no difference between a night in August and a night in October. If I feel I can help the team win, I’m going to take the ball. Bumps and bruises are part of the game, and I’ll never use them as an excuse if I don’t pitch to the standard I’ve set for myself.
And not pitching because of an injury is exactly what happened to me last year. After I got nailed by that line drive last May I missed the rest of the season. While dealing with my injury, I watched the moves the club was making — and I watched as people wrote us off because of the other injuries we were dealing with and some of the trades we made. That was no fun.
I wanted to play, to help in some way. But as I sat on the sidelines I started to come to terms with the possibility that my days left in my only professional home could be numbered. The time might finally have come to move on. I understand that baseball is a business and I understand how this business works — and I accepted the fact that I could be traded.
So when I got the call last month telling me that I had been dealt to the Texas Rangers, I can’t say I was blindsided. I’m moving on. Cleveland is the only big league city I’ve ever known, and I will always love it and carry it in a special place in my heart. It’s bittersweet to say goodbye, but I am off to a new, exciting chapter in Texas — and looking forward to it. All I can do now is put my head down and go to work again.
But before I go, I want to take the time to say thank you to Cleveland. The things I’ll always remember about this city are my relationships. My relationships with the guys I’ve played with. With the fans. With the trainers. With the people I saw in the clubhouse every day.
There are also relationships away from the ballpark that I will miss. I will miss all the smiling faces at batting practice for Kluber’s Kids. I will miss the patients and staff at Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals. I will miss Ali Rieman, the first patient with whom my wife, Amanda, and I built a close bond, and who inspired us to start our foundation.
All I can do now is put my head down and go to work again. Thank you to guys like Lonnie Chisenhall and Yan Gomes and Carlos Carrasco and Josh Tomlin, and all the other Indians teammates who opened their homes to me and my family. Thank you to Wine Bar Rocky River for the postgame hangouts. And thank you to Amanda for raising our three children in the only baseball city they’ve ever known. Cleveland will always be special to me and my family. Amanda is from Massachusetts. I’m from Texas. But for 10 years Cleveland was truly our home.
Thank you to the Indians for a decade of great memories: 2016, the win streak in 2017, 20 wins in 2018. Cleveland is where I became a major league ballplayer, and it’s where I developed my identity as a pitcher. There are a lot of things I’m proud of, a lot of things that we accomplished together. And I’ll never forget any of it.
If you know me, you know that I’m a guy who likes to keep things on the field. And now it’s time for me to get back to work — to get back on the field. I haven’t pitched since May 1. I’ve talked to some guys who have moved on from Cleveland to other teams, and they told me it can be a little weird to go back to Progressive Field and be in the visitor’s clubhouse. But they also say that, in a way, returning to Cleveland in a new uniform gave them a sense of closure.
When I come back to Cleveland next season, I’ll be coming back as a visitor. But I’ll still go over to the Indians’ clubhouse and say hello, still make sure to see all the people I saw every day when I was playing there. I’m excited to be in a new situation, but those things will always be a part of me.
I’ll be back as a Ranger, but I’ll always be from Cleveland.
Right-hander Nick Wittgren and the Indians agreed Friday on a one-year $1.125 million deal to avoid arbitration. He was projected to earn $1.3 million in arbitration by mlbtraderumors.com.
Wittgren, acquired in February from the Marlins, opened last season at Class AAA Columbus. He made two appearances with the Clippers before being recalled on April 9. Wittgren, 28, never looked back. He went 5-1 with four saves and a 2.81 ERA in 55 games to become a key member of a bullpen that had the third best ERA in the AL.
Outfielder Tyler Naquin and the Indians avoided arbitration earlier in the day by agreeing to a one-year deal worth $1.45 million. MLBtradrumors.com projected that Naquin would earn $1.8 million in arbitration.
Naquin, 28, was having his best season since his rookie year in 2016 when he collided with the left field fence on Aug. 30 against the Rays at Tropicana Field. He tore the ACL in his right knee and was finished for the last season.
In 89 games last year, Naquin hit .288 (79-for-274) with 19 doubles, 10 homers and 34 RBI. He finished second in the AL with a team-high 11 assists from the outfield.
Francisco Lindor, Mike Clevinger and Delino DeShields are the Indians other arbitration-eligible players. They had until noon Friday to exchange salary figures for the 2020 season.
Tribe agreements today vs. MLB Trade Rumors estimates: -- Lindor: $17.5M; estimated $16.7M -- DeShields: $1.875M; estimated $2.4M -- Naquin: $1.45M; estimated $1.8M -- Wittgren: $1.125M; estimated $1.3M Totals: $21.95M, which is $250,000 below the estimates. Well done, MLBTR.
Still waiting on Mike Clevinger. But nothing that's happened today is going to change the estimates that, barring any significant additions, the Indians' payroll will be in the low $90 million range to start the season. I would think they're not done. But, well ...
Tribe's five signings Friday added $26,050,000 to the payroll. Mike Clevinger, last man to sign, agreed to a 1-year deal worth $4.1 million. It's a nice bump from last year's salary of $592,200.
What’s up with Francisco Lindor? Here’s how Cleveland Indians stand
Today 5:57 AM Francisco Lindor in MLB All-Star Game 2019
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer ABOUT FRANCISCO LINDOR’S TRADE SITUATION
After the 2018 season, the Cleveland Indians told Corey Kluber there were likely to be a lot of trade rumors that included his name.
Their stance was, “Try to ignore it. We will let you know if anything is really close.”
They never made a call to Kluber about that... until a month ago, as he was being traded to the Texas Rangers for Emmanuel Clase.
Francisco Lindor was told the same thing. While the Indians have had seemingly countless texts and calls from other teams about their star shortstop, there has been nothing close to a deal.
Other teams say the Indians have an exorbitant asking price for the 26-year-old Lindor. The Indians say publicly and privately that Lindor is one of the best players in baseball, the full package on and off the field.
Furthermore, the Indians believe they can win the AL Central Division. If they were in a rebuild stage, Lindor would probably have been traded by now. They did receive some attractive offers of lower level minor league prospects.
Here’s what I’ve heard:
1. The Tribe wants a combination of good, young big league players under team control for several years along with top prospects. It would be a hyper-version of July’s Trevor Bauer three-way deal with the Cincinnati Reds and San Diego Padres.
2. In that trade, the Indians received Yasiel Puig and Franmil Reyes to immediately help the big league team. Puig was a rental for the rest of the season. Reyes is considered a core player, a power hitter for the next several years. They also received prospects Logan Allen, Scott Moss and Victor Nova.
3. The Reds have talked to the Tribe about Lindor, who is a free agent in two seasons. The Reds don’t believe they can sign Lindor to an extension. It’s the same with Bauer, a free agent after the 2020 season. The Reds want to go all-in to make the playoffs this summer and worry about free agency later.
4. The Reds have traded a lot of prospects in the last few years, including Moss (a highly-regarded starter) to the Tribe. They seemed to think the Indians are anxious to trade Lindor. They’re wrong.
5. Several weeks ago, the Indians did put out word they’d like the best offers for Lindor. But there was no firm deadline. As one baseball executive told me, “Teams set deadlines all the time, then change them.”
6. Things could change if the Los Angeles Dodgers decide they want to deal top prospects Gavin Lux, Dustin May and some others. The Dodgers have a loaded farm system. Lux was the 2019 Baseball America Minor League Player of the Year. But so far, the Dodgers haven’t made the kind of offer to entice the Indians into thinking twice about trading Lindor.
LINDOR AND THE 2020 SEASON
The Indians say Lindor is in a great frame of mind. He was frustrated last season when he strained a calf muscle right before spring training. As he prepared to join the Indians late in spring training, he suffered a high ankle sprain.
Lindor missed the first 18 games of the 2019 season because of injuries. It was his first trip to the disabled list.
Not only is Lindor an All-Star, he has been durable. Between 2016-18, he missed only 11 games. Once he returned in 2019, he missed only one game. He has vowed to be in the best condition of his career to open spring training.
This is the first time Lindor’s name has been mentioned in trade rumors. Different players have different reactions. The Indians don’t think the rumors have had a negative impact on Lindor.
Things can always change with one phone call. The Dodgers still want to add a star-caliber player. They have talked about dealing for Mookie Betts and Kris Bryant, along with Lindor. Perhaps they will meet the Tribe’s price.
But right now, it appears Tribe president Chris Antonetti is correct when he says he expects Lindor to open the season with the Tribe.
ABOUT THE TRIBE
1. I don’t understand the arbitration process. Lindor ended up with a $17.5 million deal, as did Bauer. Neither player went to arbitration. They settled as it came close. Lindor had a superb season, hitting .284 (.854 OPS) with 32 HR, 74 RBI. He is only the fifth player in baseball history to have at least 40 doubles and 30 HR in three consecutive seasons, according to the Tribe’s post-season media guide.
2. Bauer had an 11-13 record and 4.48 ERA in 2019. With the Reds, he was 2-5 with a 6.39 ERA in 10 starts after the trade. Bauer’s first full season in the majors was 2014. Only once (2018) has he had an ERA under 4.00. I can’t explain how they both end up with the same deal, other than it’s driven by arbitration.
3. MLBtraderumors.com is an excellent source for various information, especially arbitration. They use some type of formula to estimate the salaries of arbitration-eligible players. They predicted $18.6 million for Bauer, $16.7 for Lindor. I guess Bauer gets more because he has one more year of service.
4. I was surprised the Indians shipped backup catcher Eric Haase to the Detroit Tigers for cash. I was told the Indians were concerned about his strikeouts. He struck out 287 times in 886 Class AAA plate appearances. He also had 49 HR and 133 RBI in 224 games. Haase is 27.
5. The Tribe picked up 30-year-old career backup catcher Sandy Leon to replace Haase. The Indians internal stats show Leon as a superior game-caller and pitch-framer. Pitchers love to throw to him. The same is said about starter Roberto Perez. With a young starting staff, the Indians wanted a veteran catcher to help the pitchers. Leon doesn’t hit, a career .221 (.615 OPS) average in parts of eight seasons.
If the Dolans were smart, Lindor would be traded as soon as possible for the best deal. Also, they would also sell the team as their next smart decision.
BREAKING: Houston Astros GM Jeff Luhnow and manager AJ Hinch have been suspended for one year after an MLB investigation found the team used technology to cheat during its World Series-winning 2017 season, sources familiar with the punishment tell ESPN.
Additionally, MLB will fine the Astros $5 million and take away their first- and second-round picks in the 2020 and 2021 drafts, sources tell ESPN.
Red Sox manager (and former Astros' coach), Alex Cora, was implicated too, and will be facing some kind of punishment. MLB is also investigating allegations that the Red Sox stole signs electronically in 2018.
The Astros were caught in 2018 as well by the Indians (Astros employee caught with video recording device near dugout) and Red Sox (had Astros guy removed that was taping near dugout as well). Indians had even warned the Red Sox prior to the start of the series.
By Mandy Bell @MandyBell02 28 minutes ago Facebook Share Twitter Share Email Copy Link CLEVELAND -- Whether Indians manager Terry Francona is on board or not, there is change coming to Major League Baseball in 2020.
For the first time, a rule will be implemented that requires pitchers to face at least three batters or pitch to the conclusion of the half inning, excluding situations that involve injury or illness. This was created as an effort to reduce the number of pitching changes, thus cutting down the average time per game.
The change will cause all 30 clubs to have to strategize a bit differently than in years past, but the Indians will likely be one of the teams who will struggle with it the most.
“I don't understand it. I don't think I'm ever going to,” Francona said. “But we will certainly do the best we can and adapt, and I'm sure when we get to Spring Training, we'll spend a ton of time on the best way to embrace it -- because, I mean, when the season starts, nobody's going to care if I like it or dislike it.”
How much will it actually impact the club?
The numbers over the past few years have been clear: the number of LOOGYs (lefty one-out guys) in the bullpen -- and in the game -- are decreasing. Plus, the majority of relief appearances made across the Majors last year would not violate the new rule. However, the Indians led the Majors in 2019 in what will now be considered violations with 44 instances, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. The Cubs and Diamondbacks were right behind them with 39 violations.
The Tribe also faced three or more hitters in 426 individual appearances last season, which ranked the fewest among all 30 clubs. The Red Sox owned the most with 566.
Undoubtedly, Francona prefers to cater to matchups, and his methods worked last year to lead a bullpen that averaged the slowest fastball in the Majors (90.8 mph) to the lowest ERA in the big leagues from the start of the season through the end of August (3.51). But now, he said he’ll have to change his managerial style.
Watch the splits
This new rule now puts specialist relievers like left-hander Óliver Pérez and righty Adam Cimber in tough spots. Why? The numbers may just speak for themselves.
When used in optimal matchups during the 2019 season:
Of Pérez’s 67 overall appearances last year, 25 would be illegal in 2020, while just five of Cimber’s 68 outings would violate the new rule. It’s not that the lefty and the submarine hurler can’t last at least three batters or conclude an inning, it’s the concern of what could happen if they have to face opposite-handed hitters.
For example, the Indians could still try to use Pérez – or Cimber -- in a similar role, calling on him to enter an inning with two outs and a lefty at the plate. If he comes in and gets the out, then there’s no harm. But say there is a powerful right-handed hitter on deck when he enters, and he doesn’t get the first batter out. Then the Indians are left holding their collective breath that he can escape the jam.
“We get to the ballpark early and we stay late, and the object is to try to do it better than the other people,” Francona said. “Sometimes, you're successful. Sometimes, you're not. But when you start to leave it to chance, that kind of goes against everything we live for and we believe in. And it's a hard one for me. I'm struggling with this.”
Importance of Karinchak and Clase
Although Pérez and Cimber may struggle to find their footing to start the season until everyone is adjusted to the new strategies this rule will bring, it’s important to note just how crucial the two young arms could be.
The Indians got a quick glimpse of James Karinchak in September, as he posted a 1.69 ERA in 5 1/3 innings. And while it may have been a small sample size, his splits against left-handed and right-handed hitters nearly mirrored the numbers he posted in the Minors last season:
Facing righties in MLB: .222 average, .633 OPS, one strikeout, 10 plate appearances Facing lefties in MLB: .091 average, .174 OPS, seven strikeouts, 12 plate appearances Facing righties in the Minors: .203 average, .591 OPS, 48 strikeouts, 90 plate appearances Facing lefties in the Minors: .063 average, .241 OPS, 34 strikeouts, 57 plate appearances
Karinchak’s numbers against lefties are absolutely dominant, but the key is that the 24-year-old can also get righties out consistently.
Now let’s add newly acquired Emmanuel Clase to the mix. He will bring some velocity to the Tribe’s ‘pen, owning a triple-digit cutter that’s played well in the big leagues thus far. In 2019, he threw 238 pitches that clocked in at 98+ mph, while the Tribe's pitchers only threw 12, collectively.
Last season, Clase made 21 appearances for the Rangers and posted a 2.31 ERA in 23 1/3 innings. He split the first half of the year between Class A Advanced and Double-A, pitching to a combined 2.82 ERA with 50 strikeouts in 44 2/3 frames while holding opponents to a .226 average.
When he got the call to the big leagues in August, his platoon splits proved that the Indians may have another reliable arm that they can lean on:
Facing left-handed batters: 11 1/3 innings, 10 hits, one homer, two walks, 10 strikeouts, 1.06 WHIP Facing right-handed batters: 12 innings, 10 hits, one homer, four walks, 11 strikeouts, 1.17 WHIP
It’s certainly going to be an adjustment for the Indians, who were the most common offenders of the future rule last season. But they may be able to breathe a little easier, knowing they have some up-and-coming talent that could evolve into two huge weapons to combat the new three-batter minimum rule.
What a stupid rule. I get the idea behind speeding up the game but don't change rules that significantly affect the strategy of the game like that. You're not going to get fans who think the game is too boring because you made the game 10 minutes shorter. Meanwhile, you turn off the real fans who don't mind the bit longer games.
I can hardly wait until the first time a pitcher goes down with an injury (or an "injury"), and can't pitch all three batters.
I stopped watching baseball altogether in 2000, and it may have been a really really good decision. I feel better never giving it a thought.
I heard the Angels won the World Series in 2003, but beyond that, I may not have seen or heard 10 minutes, except one occasion, but, somehow, I still feel like I knew the names Carlos Beltran, and Terry Francona.
They had a scandal? Shucks, Not sorry I missed it.
A watch of that 5 second video of the trash can noise before a pitch? Seemed pretty dang obvious, what took em so long to figure it out?
Was listening to Je'Rod Cherry and Matt Fontana talking about it, and they had made a great point.
Think about all the guys and teams this effected, and their eventual outcome.
What if the Tribe doesn't get rocked in that series? Is Kluber still here? Do we win a title and eventually fill the stands and are able to keep Frankie? The outcome of our team and is composition could be extremely different right now.
Then, think about all the guys that were bubble guys on the mound, who were sent down or had their careers sent off track.
IMO, they should be stripped of their title and banned for a year (the entire team).
I realize more than one city is involved with cheating but I can't help but see how much the Boston teams are involved. The Pats have been accused and fined in the past over cheating and also lost draft picks. They just got accused this past season of filming a game illegally. The Red Sox were accused of steroid use during their World Series wins in 2004 and 2007. Players like Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz were named in reports as well as a few others. It's telling that they hired Alex Cora as manager who was the alleged mastermind behind the cheating. IIRC Cora was suspected of cheating while he was a coach in Houston but it wasn't proven until now. Coincidence? Even the Celtics have been accused of some dubious actions in the past when Red A. was running things.
I realize more than one city is involved with cheating but I can't help but see how much the Boston teams are involved. The Pats have been accused and fined in the past over cheating and also lost draft picks. They just got accused this past season of filming a game illegally. The Red Sox were accused of steroid use during their World Series wins in 2004 and 2007. Players like Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz were named in reports as well as a few others. It's telling that they hired Alex Cora as manager who was the alleged mastermind behind the cheating. IIRC Cora was suspected of cheating while he was a coach in Houston but it wasn't proven until now. Coincidence? Even the Celtics have been accused of some dubious actions in the past when Red A. was running things.
Well, to be fair - it doubt its a Boston issue, an more of a "they were the ones that got caught" issue.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was more widespread than is being let on.
My favorite part will be when some of them go into the HOF yet Rose did nothing close to this as a player or even as a manager can’t get in ... gotta love baseball ...
On a side note ... happy Bregman’s smack dab in the middle of it ... he’s an arrogant butt hole ... couldn’t be more deserving ...
That seems like a pretty modest deal. I thought I had read that Castellanos was looking for a contract around $24-25M per year. Contracts for non-marquee type players seem to be leveling out. Indians might be able to sign Puig for $12-14M if they want him. If they don't want Puig, Cincy seems to have a logjam at the OF position, with Castellanos, Senzel, Aquino, Winker, Ervin, and Akiyama (just signed for $21M/3 yr out of Japan).
And Then There Was One By Jeff Todd | January 28, 2020 at 8:08am CDT
By definition, there’ll always be one final major free agent to come off the board. It’s a lonely spot, perhaps, but also one where the market is yours and yours alone. Things rarely shake out quite as might originally have been hoped, but neither does last-man-standing status mean the money has necessarily dried up. We saw two fairly large contracts handed out in the middle of the 2019 season, including a multi-year pact for Craig Kimbrel.
MLBTR’s top 50 list has been picked over rather thoroughly. There are three unsigned players, including a solid relief arm (Pedro Strop) and useful utilityman (Brock Holt). But if we’re being honest, there were others just off the list who could make roughly similar free agent cases. We predicted both players to receive fairly modest guarantees.
So with Nick Castellanos leaving the board yesterday, we can now official declare: this year, the Big Name Yet To Sign is Yasiel Puig. His days as a true star with the Dodgers are distant memories now, but Puig has mostly been productive outside of a poor stretch with the Reds to open the 2019 season. He hit about twenty percent above the league-average rate in the prior two campaigns and finished with a solid run late last year after being dealt to the Indians. Depending upon one’s preferred means of measuring and valuing defense, Puig was a 3-4 WAR player in 2017 and 2018. He’s only just turned 29; perhaps his downtick in 2019 was just a blip.
On the one hand, this isn’t much of a surprise. Much like the three other young corner outfielders on this year’s market, Puig was an awfully tough player to gauge. All the more so in his case … not only does Puig come with some performance questions, but he’s a notably eccentric player whose occasional hijinks may not be fully welcomed by all organizations. But this was hardly inevitable. Puig also has long looked like an intriguing buy-low candidate — one that a value-hunting team might well have targeted from the outset.
Whatever the background, we now have a much clearer picture of the Puig situation than when we predicted he’d take down a one-year, $8MM deal when the market opened. We’ve now seen Castellanos (four years, $64MM), Ozuna (one year, $18MM), and Avisail Garcia (two years, $20MM) set a market that had been ill-defined. And multiple teams have filled openings, of course, even beyond the clubs that inked those players (the Reds, Braves, and Brewers). The Diamondbacks and Marlins have installed multiple outfielders; the White Sox seem to have filled out their lineup.
But that’s not to say that it’s now all that obvious where Puig ought to land. The Tigers — our guess at the outset of the winter — still make sense for all the same reasons. But it’s also possible the club will prefer to preserve its roster flexibility to jump on some intriguing players that shake loose early in 2020. A return to the Indians still makes some amount of sense if the club elects to add back some salary. That the Cleveland org went out and got Puig last year adds to the plausibility.
There are other teams worth considering as possibilities. The Rangers have pursued a righty bat to join a lefty-heavy outfield mix, though whether they’ve got interest in Puig specifically isn’t clear. It’s wild to imagine it, but the Giants are certainly an on-paper fit for the same essential reasons that the Tigers are. You could argue that the Orioles should be as well, even if they already have a few guys on hand that they’d like to give a look to. And why not the Rockies? The club isn’t spending much, but could perhaps find a way to make one bet and could really use the upside. Puig’s right-handed bat would provide much-needed lineup balance.
And what about teams back-filling after trades? The Pirates could be involved in theory, though they’re mostly in need of center field capability and are surely wary of off-field (or on-field) shenanigans after a trying 2019 season. The Mariners previously dropped Domingo Santana and aren’t exactly laden with established talent. And hey, what about the Red Sox? If they end up dealing Mookie Betts, an upside play might be just the ticket.
If we consider timeshare possibilities, the Angels make some sense. The club needs to be willing to accept some risk to turn the corner. Puig could pair with Brian Goodwin while the club waits for Jo Adell to force his way up. The Marlins can still consider Puig as part of a revamped lineup mix, even if they aren’t really set up to install him as an everyday presence. If there’s still an avenue for the Rays to jump in on Puig, it’s a narrow one now that Jose Martinez and Randy Arozarena are on hand. But the Tampa Bay organization can surely figure a way to shift things around if it sees a chance to shoehorn in a value opportunity.
It takes some squinting and some balancing of tradeoffs even to imagine a fit for Puig. Just how specific teams feel about the polarizing player, and just what situation he prefers, will no doubt dictate the outcome. But there are plenty of theoretical possibilities.
Is there a reason to feel good about the Cleveland Indians without lying?
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio – “When I stand in front of our team for the first time (in spring training), I won’t have to lie.”
Those words came from the mouth of Indians manager Terry Francona, who met with the media on Friday night.
Lie about what?
“When I say if we play the right way, we have a chance (to win),” said Francona. “Not everyone can say that.”
But why?
“We are talented enough so that when we do the things we’re supposed to, we have a chance to win," said Francona.
I asked Francona to explain.
“Any time you can pitch, it helps you sleep at night,” he said. “Does it mean we’ll win for sure? No. But we have a chance.”
For the second winter in a row, the focus of many in the media and fans has been on the Tribe cutting payroll.
This winter saw the trade of two-time Cy Young Award winner Corey Kluber to the Texas Rangers for rookie reliever Emmanuel Clase and journeyman outfielder Delino DeShields Jr.
The trade wasn’t 100 percent about money. The Indians love the 21-year-old Clase, whose average fastball is 99 mph. He had a 2-3 record and 2.31 ERA in 21 games for the Rangers in 2019.
Francona praised DeShields for his defense in center field.
FACING REALITY
But the Indians also were unloading Kluber, who will be paid $18 million in 2020.
“No one wanted to trade Corey Kluber,” said Francona. “Talk to Chris (Tribe president Chris Antonetti). Talk to Cherny (general manager Mike Chernoff). They didn’t want to trade Kluber.”
Payroll was a consideration. But Kluber pitched only seven games last season with a 2-3 record and a 5.80 ERA. Kluber fractured his arm when hit with a line drive. He tried to come back later in the season, but suffered an oblique injury. His last big league game was May 1.
At 33 and superbly conditioned, Kluber is a good candidate for a bounce-back season – even though he threw more than 203 innings every year from 2014-18.
But the Indians also were surprised about the lack of attractive offers for Kluber as other teams wondered if he could return to his elite form.
The Indians don’t want to overhype Clase, but they see the righthander as a future closer. Francona loves relievers and Clase is one of his reasons for being upbeat about 2020.
WHY OPTIMISTIC?
“Every team in our (AL Central) division has taken a serious step backwards after having success,” said Francona. “We haven’t taken a step back.”
Teams in the Central tend to contend for a few years, then fall back, slash payroll and lose big. It happened in Minnesota, Chicago and Detroit.
“We were disappointed about not making the playoffs last year,” said Antonetti. “But we did win 93 games. We were the first team to win 93 games and not make the playoffs in the wild card era (since 1994).”
Having to choose between a strong pitching staff or a powerful lineup, Francona will always go with the arms.
After praising what Kluber meant to the Indians, “it can’t be overstated,” Antonetti mentioned the Indians had another successful season while their star righthander was injured.
Antonetti talked about how All-Star Game MVP Shane Bieber and Mike Clevinger “are emerging as top of the rotation starters.” They are thrilled by 2019 American League Comeback Player of the Year Carlos Carrasco, who is healthy and winning his battle with leukemia.
Young starters such as Aaron Civale, Zach Plesac and Adam Plutko will compete for two spots in the rotation.
THE FRANCONA FACTOR
The Indians have had a winning record every year since Francona became manager in 2013. They’ve made the playoffs four times. They lost in Game 7 of the 2016 World Series.
That’s what haunts the franchise in the eyes of some fans – the Indians have won the most games in the American League in the last seven years, but no World Series.
The Indians are the most consistent, well-run franchise in town. They prize continuity.
“We believe it gives us a competitive advantage," Antonetti often says.
For all the criticism of the Dolan family’s modest payrolls, Antonetti and Chernoff have turned down chances to work for teams in larger markets.
“I don’t know I’d be doing this (managing) unless I was here,” said Francona. “It’s the people here... I don’t want to say they saved me, but they are people I care about and can trust.”
THE CHALLENGES
Francona won the World Series twice (2004, 2007) in Boston. He is likely to make the Hall of Fame as a manager. He’s won at least 90 games in 11-of-15 years managing the Tribe and Red Sox.
He knows the advantages of managing in a major market with a big payroll.
“There are some teams, when they make a poor (financial) decision, they can make it go away,” said Francona.
The Indians are not one of those.
“I’m not complaining about that,” he said. “We don’t go ‘woe is me.' Instead, it’s 'How are we going to figure it (the problem) out?’ That’s one of the first things you hear (in meetings). It allows me to even enjoy the challenges."
Antonetti and his top people work hard to “make sure everyone is pulling in the same direction.”
It’s part of the reason the Indians under Francona often start slow and finish strong. They have a .598 winning percentage after the All-Star break. The team makes trades and promotes players during the season to fill in holes.
At 60, Francona has dealt with significant health challenges over the years. He looked and sounded refreshed Friday night. Under contract through 2022, his commitment to the Tribe remains strong.
“Nothing is perfect," said Francona. "But when you take the positives and negatives... for me, the positives so far outweigh the other things. We are challenged, but I enjoy going through it with the people here.”
CLEVELAND (AP) — Indians pitcher Mike Clevinger doesn’t know exactly how he’ll react the next time he’s on the mound facing the Houston Astros.
They cheated, and he doesn’t like cheaters. On Friday night, he took aim at them.
“We’ll see,” he said. “It’ll be fun.”
Clevinger has been one of the most outspoken critics of the Astros since their sign-stealing scandal broke earlier this month and rocked baseball, leading to suspensions, managerial firings in Houston, Boston and New York, and blanketing the sport in a net of suspicion as spring training approaches.
Once the season begins, the Astros will be under more scrutiny and they might have to deal with some high, hard pitches.
“I think players will deal with it the way it should be across the league,” Clevinger said. “I don’t think it’s going to be a comfortable few ABs (at-bats) for a lot of those boys, and it shouldn’t be. They shouldn’t be comfortable.”
Asked what bothered him most about the scandal, Clevinger said, “Probably them accepting an award and cracking a joke about it without an apology.”
Clevinger, who went 13-4 last season for Cleveland, has long wondered about Houston’s hitters and their uncanny ability to hit tough pitches. He and former teammate Trevor Bauer raised concerns in the past about the Astros, and the revelation that they were using a camera in center field and banging trash cans to alert teammates of incoming pitches, gave the right-handers some vindication.
“I wouldn’t say it was common knowledge, but it’s been going around the league for a while as far as rumors there’s been a lot more substance involved,” Clevinger said. “It’s just, we didn’t have the smoking gun ... and it finally came out and it was a reiteration of how cocky they were and how they treated other guys around the league. And for that to be going on just struck a chord with me.”
Clevinger said he was confident the Astros’ secrets would eventually leak. It was former Houston pitcher Mike Fiers, now with Oakland, who revealed that Houston used a video feed sent to a monitor near its dugout to decode signs and relay them to hitters.
“Me and Trevor Bauer since 2017 have been waiting — there’s no way they can keep this glued together,” Clevinger said. “There’s no way everyone’s going to keep their mouth shut. There’s no way they can keep not picking up contracts, not giving free agents money and no one is going to say anything. We knew something was going to happen and sure enough, it did.”
There’s still a part of Clevinger that wishes he and Bauer weren’t right about their suspicions.
“Obviously, we didn’t want it,” he said. “I’d rather me be the hippie conspiracy theorist and him be the (jerk). I’d totally rather it went that way, man, 100%. It sucks that we were right. But it wasn’t like we were just throwing stuff at a wall. There was a lot of stuff we knew that other people didn’t know we knew.”
And now that the Astros have been exposed, Clevinger said sign-stealing may be more prevalent than anyone realized.
“I’m not debating that it’s not,” he said. “The point is we know who it is. People see the repercussions now. I have no idea where it’s going to go from here, whether it’s detrimental enough, but I think there’s enough punishment involved that it’s going to steer teams away from doing it. Hopefully there will be more checks and balances involved in the video department, be it with MLB through each game.”
The Astros were also fined $5 million, a penalty Clevinger found insulting, and he’s sorry Fiers has been cast as a villain by some for talking about his former team.
“What’s he going to do, while he’s wearing their colors going into the playoffs?” Clevinger said. ”He’s got to speak out now. He’s going to have to do it after. It doesn’t matter when he spoke out. It’s the fact that he did it. It had to come to light.”
Clevinger didn’t start against the Astros last season, but said during an outing against them in 2018 that he began to wonder if something was amiss.
The 29-year-old said he threw a 95 mph inside fastball to Houston outfielder Tony Kemp, who pulled it down the line for a hit.
“Not that he’s not a good ballplayer, but Tony Kemp’s not the best fastball, high-ball, two-strike hitter,” Clevinger said. “Let alone, pulling it down the line at 95 mph. I knew something was up that game. I had my stuff, but I was fighting for every out I had to get. I knew something was different.”
The Indians were swept by Houston in the 2018 AL Division Series, but manager Terry Francona isn’t making any excuses about what happened. The Astros beat Cleveland fair and square, he said.
“You can beat as many trash cans as you want,” Francona said. “I think we had two hits off of (Gerrit) Cole and three off of (Justin) Verlander. That wasn’t because of trash cans.”
Dodgers, Red Sox still talking about a Mookie Betts trade
By Craig Calcaterra NBC Sports Jan 30, 2020
Andy McCullough of The Athletic writes today that the Dodgers front office “remains engaged with Boston” about a Mookie Betts trade. He adds that the “dialogue with Boston has approached a resolution” in recent days, which means that they’re either close to a deal or close to calling things off.
The shape of such a deal is unknown, and what it is probably depends on how interested the Red Sox are in shedding payroll vs. acquiring young talent. The Dodgers farm system is stocked, and an MVP-type for young studs is a classic sort of deal, but Red Sox owner John Henry signaled earlier this off season that getting the team under the Competitive Balance Tax threshold is a priority. That could mean that the Dodgers — who are loaded with cash as well as prospects — might consider taking on a big salary in addition to Betts in order to make a deal happen with a lower cost in terms of prospects. For example, David Price is owed $96 million between 2020-2022. If Boston is happy with falling out of contention in the short term, they could certainly make that kind of deal.
Hard to say where things are, but this certainly seems like it has more momentum now than it’s had at any point this off season.
The rumor I heard on the radio was OF Alex Verdugo to the Red Sox for Mookie Betts and David Price, with the Dodgers taking on the $96M that is owed to Price for the next 3 years. Its a variation of our trade for Brock Osweiler a couple years ago with much higher cash stakes. The Dodgers would be gambling that they can sign Betts to a long term deal before he hits FA next year. It might also take the Dodgers out of the picture as a trade partner for Lindor
That’s a huge get for LA ... he’s a heck of a player
Its also a gamble. Betts might not sign long-term with them. Some Red Sox fans think he'll re-sign with them as a FA. I'm not so sure about that, but the Yankees are always lurking in any big name free agency scenario. The Sox reportedly offered a 10 year $300M deal, but Betts is looking for 12 years $420M. BTW, somewhere between those two numbers is where Lindor's market lies, IMO.
I hope many of the Twins offensive players had a career year in 2019 because adding Maeda seems like a big deal to a previously average-to-below average rotation.
If the Red Sox are crying poor then basically every other team besides two, the Yankees and the Dodgers, are going to cry poor also. This is a bad look for the league. The Red Sox salary dumped the second best player in the league.
Haha. How long have the Marlins been paying Bobby Bonilla?!
Bobby Bonilla is a retired MLB player who last took the field in 2001, but, 20 years later, is still getting paid $1.2 million a year by the New York Mets. In fact, he'll get paid $1,193,248.20 a year every year until 2035, when Bonilla is 72 entire years old.
That's a lot, but they are shedding $48M over the next 3 years for Price and approx $97M (27+35+35) over the next 3 years that they would have had to pay Betts.
By Paul Hoynes, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio -- It seems the Indians are in the process of adding another body to an already crowded outfield.
A Tweet out of the Dominican Republic said the Indians have reach agreement with free-agent outfielder Domingo Santana. They are reportedly close to coming to terms on a big-league deal worth just over $1 million. The Indians have signed only one free agent of note this winter to a big-league contract -- second baseman Cesar Hernandez.
The deal is contingent on Santana passing his physical. Look for an official announcement to be made sometime next week. The Indians open spring training in Goodyear, Ariz., on Tuesday.
Santana, 27, hit .253 (174-for-507) with 21 homers and 69 RBI for Seattle last year. His slash line was .253/.329/.441. He struck out 164 times in 121 games. Kansas City’s Jorge Soler and Rougned Odor of Texas led the AL with 178 strikeouts each.
The 6-5, 220-pound Santana seems to be a clone of Franmil Reyes, the 6-5 slugger the Indians acquired from San Diego in the Trevor Bauer deal. Reyes dropped 18 pounds over the winter to prepare to improve his outfield play during the offseason at the Tribe’s baseball academy in the Dominican Republic.
Santana, a right-handed hitter, has played in the big leagues with Houston, Milwaukee and Seattle. His best year to date came in 2017 with the Brewers when he hit .278 with 30 homers and 85 RBI. He posted an .875 OPS, while appearing in 144 games in right field.
Last year he played 59 games in left and 42 in right for the Mariners. He missed time in the second half with a sore right elbow.
The Indians already have nine outfielders on the 40-man roster. If they sign Santana to a big-league deal, someone will have to be dropped from the 40-man roster.
The Indians are closing in on a deal to add outfielder Domingo Santana to the roster not long before pitchers and catchers report to Goodyear, Ariz.
A report from Yancen Pujols in the Dominican Republic indicates the Indians and Santana have reached an agreement on a deal worth just north of $1 million. The team has not yet confirmed the signing, which would be contingent on a physical. That announcement could come next week. Pitchers and catchers are due to report to the Indians’ spring training facility on Tuesday, with position players needing to report by Saturday.
Santana’s addition would add yet another piece to the Indians’ crowded outfield puzzle. Though as another offense-first outfielder not known for his work defensively — similar to Franmil Reyes — Santana’s inclusion might put even more emphasis on the need for Reyes to get as much work in the outfield this spring as possible to see if he can handle right field or left field more often. Reyes says he dropped 18 pounds this winter in anticipation of getting more time in one of the corner spots. If Reyes can improve his work defensively and be more of an option there, that would open up the designated hitter spot in the Indians’ lineup, which is where Santana could fit in addition to being an option in the outfield when needed.
Santana has a career 112 wRC+ — it was 107 in 2019 — with -31 defensive runs saved in his career, so it’s clear where his value lies. He does strike out quite a bit — 164 in 2019 and 178 in 2017, his last and only season with 600 at-bats — but at times has offered power and an ability to get on base sandwiched between a few whiffs.
Santana, 27, had a strong start to 2019 at the plate but fizzled as the year wore on as he dealt with an elbow issue. He slashed .286/.354/.496 in the first half of last season, slugging 18 home runs with 19 doubles and driving in 63 runs in 399 plate appearances. But that production disappeared in the second half, when he hit just .128 with a .468 OPS in 108 plate appearances. In mid August, he was put on the injured list with right elbow inflammation.
Santana, who has just over four years of service time, was non-tendered by the Seattle Mariners this winter.
The Indians know Oscar Mercado will be in center field or left field on an everyday basis. If Reyes and Santana were to primarily handle one of the corner spots and the DH spot in the lineup, it would leave whatever spot Mercado isn’t plus any bench spots available to Delino DeShields, Jordan Luplow, Jake Bauers, Greg Allen, Tyler Naquin once he’s healthy, Bradley Zimmer and potentially Daniel Johnson, should he force his way onto the roster. Though if Santana were to repeat his second-half performance in 2019 and bring that into 2020, with little to no defensive value, the Indians would again have to rely on their internal options to a greater degree.
While Reyes and Santana occupying an OF and a DH spot makes some sense from a defensive standpoint, another torrid stretch by Bobby Bradley this spring or in Triple-A could eventually complicate things if none of the other outfielders on the 40-man roster play well enough to force the Indians’ hand. Santana finding success in Cleveland and sticking in the DH spot would momentarily block Bradley’s immediate route to the majors with Carlos Santana entrenched at first base. Bradley forced his way to Cleveland in 2019 but struggled once there, hitting .178 in 45 at-bats with one home run.
Bradley, in that way, adds yet another factor — on top of Santana’s potential inclusion — to an already crowded outfield group and how the Indians can construct the active roster. Bradley and Domingo Santana both leaving the Indians no choice but to have them both in the lineup at some point with strong showings at the plate could create an interesting defensive situation in the outfield, along with Reyes on the other side.
CLEVELAND, Ohio – Scribbles in my Cleveland Indians notebook as they are close to signing outfielder Domingo Santana:
1. Why not? That is the Tribe’s thinking about Domingo Santana. He is expected to sign a contract in the $1.5-million range. A year ago, he batted .253 (.770 OPS) with 21 HR and 69 RBI for the Seattle Mariners. He’s only 27 years old and has monster raw power.
2. Santana was batting .286 (.850 OPS) with 18 HR and 63 RBI in 88 games at the All-Star break. He suffered an elbow injury, tried to play through it and was 12-of-94 (.128) to finish the season.
3. Santana missed part of the 2016 season with an elbow problem. The Tribe deal isn’t finalized because he needs to take a physical to make sure he’s healthy.
4. Why was Santana available in what amounted to a baseball bargain sale? His lousy second half and elbow injury are part of the reason. He led all left fielders in errors with nine last season. He struck out 1-of-3 at bats. So there are negatives.
5. Nonetheless, power is power. In 2017, he was healthy and hammered 30 HR with 85 RBI for the Milwaukee Brewers, batting .278 (.875 OPS) in 151 games. He’s going to strike out (178 in 607 plate appearances in 2017).
6. Tribe manager Terry Francona has a knack of squeezing good performances out of part-time players. Along with his power, a good part of the right-handed hitting Santana is he’s a career .259 hitter (.782 OPS) vs. righties, .257 (.826 OPS) vs. lefties. So he’s not a strict platoon-type player.
7. The Indians have one designated starter in the outfield. That’s Oscar Mercado, who will play center field except when DeLino DeShields is in the lineup. Then Mercado will play left or right.
8. The Indians were pleased to see Franmil Reyes had lost 18 pounds. He was listed at 6-foot-5, 275 pounds last season. The Tribe wants to see if Reyes can play at least part of the time in the outfield. He was a right-fielder for the San Diego Padres before being traded to Cleveland at the end of July.
9. It’s doubtful the Tribe will play a lot of games with Reyes and Santana in the same outfield, especially given how Francona talked about “the need to catch the ball out there” several times at Tribefest last weekend.
10. The Indians do have a DH spot. So it’s possible Reyes or Santana split DH and right field. I mention right field because that’s the position both guys played (by far) the most in the National League.
11. The addition of Domingo Santana gives the Indians six players who hit at least 20 HR in 2019: Reyes (37), Carlos Santana (34), Francisco Lindor (32), Roberto Perez (24), Jose Ramirez (23) and Domingo Santana (21).
12. Between Domingo Santana (164) and Reyes (156), they also have two guys who fanned a combined 320 times last season. It seems as if the Tribe struck out a lot last season. But in modern baseball where guys swing away wildly, the Indians had the third-fewest strikeouts in the American League last season. Only the Los Angeles Angels and Houston Astros had fewer.
13. The Tribe is extremely pleased with the progress being made by Tyler Naquin from major ACL knee surgery in September. He is already doing some running. He is not expected to be ready for the opener, but could be back well before the All-Star break. Naquin batted .288 (.792 OPS) with 10 HR and 34 RBI in 89 games. The Indians also said Brad Zimmer is finally healthy from his 2018 shoulder surgery.
14. Francona talked about Jordan Luplow getting a chance to play against some right-handed pitching. Luplow crushed lefties last season (.320, 1.181 OPS) but batted only .216 (.573 OPS) vs. righties. Why think Luplow can hit righties? In 382 Class AAA at bats vs. righties, he’s a .298 hitter (.830 OPS). Last season was the first time the 26-year-old Luplow didn’t bounce up and down from the minors several times. He gained confidence as the season progressed.
15. The Indians think Daniel Johnson has a chance to be this season’s Oscar Mercado, a young outfielder who opens in Class AAA but joins the team during the season. The 24-year-old Johnson is an athletic outfielder who batted .290 (.868 OPS) with 19 HR and 77 RBI between Class AA and AAA last season. He came to the Tribe from the Washington Nationals (along with Jefry Rodriguez) in the Yan Gomes deal.
MLB reportedly planning to change postseason format from 5 to 7 teams per league.
- Wild card game would go away - First round would become best 2-of-3 - Top seed in each league gets a Bye - Teams with best records would pick their opponents. (via @Joelsherman1 )
No idea who made this new playoff format proposal, but Rob is responsible for releasing it, so I’ll direct this to you, Rob Manfred. Your proposal is absurd for too many reasons to type on twitter and proves you have absolutely no clue about baseball. You’re a joke.
Trevor Bauer goes off on Rob Manfred about his playoff scheme, and the overall marketing approach of MLB under Manfred's leadership. Classic rant ... Trevor Bauer for Commissioner!
Jason Kipnis, in large part the heart and soul of the Indians teams during the 2010s, thanked the fans and organization in Cleveland in a heartfelt Instagram post on Wednesday.
Kipnis is reportedly close to signing a deal with the Chicago Cubs. The Indians declined his club option for the 2020 season earlier this winter and signed Cesar Hernandez to a one-year deal to start at second base.
Kipnis, 32 and a two-time All-Star, played through a rebuilding effort, a resurgence back to contention, a trip to the World Series in 2016, four total playoff appearances and three divisional titles in his nine seasons in Cleveland. Affectionately known as “Dirtbag,” Kipnis was a fan favorite over much of the past decade.
Now that it’s closer to being official that Kipnis will be elsewhere, he thanked both the franchise that gave him his start in the majors and the fans that supported him in Cleveland.
“Cleveland, I’ll keep it short... Thank you,” Kipnis wrote. “For taking a chance on me as an organization and as a fan base. You guys joined me on this ride to get this great org back to where it belonged, at the top competing for a WS every year! I’m sorry I couldn’t finish the job for you.
“You helped shape me into the person I am today and I’m forever grateful. From the polite and respectful greetings you showed my family, friends and I everywhere we went. Every restaurant, every bar, every heinen’s, everywhere! You made me feel 10 feet tall! Many of you went from fans, to familiar faces, to even friends. Keep that Rally Together spirit going for this team. You’re holding them to a high standard and that’s the way it should be. I was fortunate enough to play with some of the best teammates, coaching, medical and equipment staff in the game and wouldn’t have had the run i did without them. Many of which are lifelong friends now.
“I’ll always cherish my time in Cleveland and always tried to show you how much I loved wearing that jersey by the way I played for you! Forever grateful, forever part of the Tribe!
Domingo Santana’s deal with #Indians is complete, source tells The Athletic. One year, $1.5M with $500K in roster bonuses. Also: $5M club option with $250K buyout. Value of option escalates by amount of each roster bonus he earns. So, could end up two-year, $7.5M deal.
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer CLEVELAND, Ohio – It’s a lot to ask.
That’s what I was thinking when I started writing column about Mike Clevinger and Carlos Carrasco.
Most Cleveland Indians fans have heard Clevinger suffered a knee injury working out Wednesday. He had arthroscopic surgery to repair a partial tear of his left medial meniscus Friday.
The Indians said Clevinger will be out 6-to-8 weeks. It’s seem doubtful he’ll be ready for the opener March 26.
While Shane Bieber is the ace of the staff in the minds of most fans, I considered that role falling to Clevinger, especially after the trades of Trevor Bauer and Corey Kluber.
Bieber or Clevinger? You can debate which of these talented right arms you like best for the top of rotation. But you can feel good about either one having a strong 2020 season.
Over the last three seasons, Clevinger’s average record was 13-6 with a 2.96 ERA. Batters hit only .216 against him.
When healthy, the 29-year-old Clevinger has overpowering stuff.
Clevinger also has a very violent pitching motion that puts stress on his back and legs. Last season, he missed 10 weeks with a significant back injury.
So the Indians have to go slowly with Clevinger as he recovers from surgery, even if it’s considered “minor.”
THEY NEED CARRASCO
Which brings me to Carrasco. The right-hander was diagnosed with chronic myeloid leukemia last June. He came back to pitch in September, and won the American League Comeback Player of the Year award.
Carrasco had a 6.60 ERA in 11 relief appearances after returning to the field. A couple of rocky outings inflated the numbers.
When several of us talked to Carrasco during Tribefest two weeks ago, he stressed he was healthy. He already was throwing some demanding bullpen sessions.
Early reports from spring training are encouraging.
"He graded out pretty well as far as strength and everything,” Manager Terry Francona told the media in Goodyear. “I thought he looked tremendous. I know he gets tired of us asking him how he’s doing. I said, ‘You’ve got to understand that we have to ask you.’ "
Now, more than ever, that’s true with Clevinger’s situation.
As Francona also told Carrasco: “We’d love for you to take the ball every five days and throw 200 innings.”
In 2017-18, Carrasco averaged 196 innings. He had a 35-16 record and 3.31 ERA in those two seasons.
Can he do that after his battle with leukemia?
Carrasco will be 33 on March 21. He appears to be in excellent physical condition and he is one of the most positive people you’ll ever meet.
Pitcher Jon Lester and first baseman Anthony Rizzo both beat lymphoma when they were in the Boston Red Sox organization. So there is reason for optimism about Carrasco, but we also are talking about a man who was fighting for his life last summer.
REMAKING THE ROTATION
Let’s assume Clevinger opens the season on the disabled list. That puts Bieber and Carrasco at the top of the rotation.
Adam Plutko (7-5, 4.86 ERA) is out of minor league options. He’ll likely have a spot.
For the final two rotation spots, that leaves Aaron Civale (3-4, 2.34 ERA) and Zach Plesac (8-6, 3.81 ERA), who both rose all the way from Class AA Akron last summer.
The Indians also like prospects Jefry Rodriguez and Scott Moss, but are they ready in March and April?
There are question marks about all the young starters. Can they hold up over an entire season?
The Indians know a healthy Carrasco not only can handle the innings, he is one of the best starters in the American League.
And for the Indians to be a contender, Carrasco now looms more important than ever.
I'll vote also for Trevor for commish. This new stuff is rewarding mediocrocy (sp),used this when playing in playground/little league back in '50s-'60s. You're taught to play to be the best and earn the championship outright,just shows ownership's greed. Bad enough we have long post season playoff now in place to get to World Series which was for the best regular season record team in AL vs NL before owners decided more teams-more money. This also tends to shorten careers due to overplaying less recoop time especially pitchers,weather effect in colder climates muscle injury regular position players.
Doubtful he'd throw a breaking ball if he really wanted to hit him. I heard former Indians' pitcher Brian Anderson on the radio today saying he'd put a fastball into to Bregman's rib cage if he was still pitching.
So I don't know what has been discussed about Lindor leaving? So I apologize if this has been covered.
I follow the Tribe and the Braves having lived in Atl for a long time.
It is very sad to me that a player like Lindor apparently can not remain because the team can not pay him. Part of baseball is having a guy come up with a team and play there for his career.
I saw Chipper Jones play his first and last game with the Braves and that felt right.
I sure hope Lindor remains with the Tribe.
However, if he has to go and that happens near the trade deadline the Braves are the right team. They have a bunch of talent ready to come to the majors with no place to play right now. Two terrific outfielders Christian Pache and Drew Waters and a bunch of quality arms.
The Braves current SS is a former first pick in the draft Dansby Swanson. Great glove solid hitter. He is not Lindor but good. I could see the Braves possible going after Lindor. They have the players to pull off win win trade.
The big question for them though is the same how much money can they afford. They have Ronald Acuna and Ozzie Albies two young cornerstone players locked up for like eight years on great team deals. But even with that they don't have the money like the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, and others.
However, just this year with revenue from a new park and back to back division wins. Liberty Mutual the owners have stated they want to go for it all. And they may be willing to come up with the dough.
The Tribe could get some really good young talent under team control for many years at low cost.
Makes sense on many levels. They wanted to resign Donaldson but were not willing to go beyond a three year deal.
They have a young power hitting third baseman Austin Riley who they moved to the outfield last year. His natural position is third. He is in competition this spring to start at third.
Swanson signed a one year deal for $3.1 mil.
Lindor would be the type guy they may go all out for given his age.
The Braves have six prospects in the top 100 with another who should have been included. Both position players and pitchers.
Dansby is a major league starting SS for any team and he just turned 26. His best years are in front of him.
The Braves have about a five year window to grab a ring. Lindor is the kind of player that could put them over the top.
They want to see how the first half plays out but they could very well pull the trigger come July.
--I am almost always a pro-player guy. However, granting immunity to all the players is so freaking lame. It comes across as if MLB knew there was too much information out there to ignore the cheating scandal and launched an investigation to protect as many of the people who create revenue as possible.
--I am making a second bullet-point about this because I feel this strongly about it. The players should have been suspended. I have shared on here many times about playing and coaching sports. I despise a cheater.
--The World Series trophy is not just a piece of metal. Dumb comment.
--Houston should lose their WS crown. Don't give it to another team. Just take it away from them.
--I would even consider banning them from post-season play for 1-3 years. That might be too drastic because it would reduce competition.
--Houston's owner came across as a jerk. The statement about the cheating not impacting the games was one of the worst comments I have ever heard considering the circumstances.
--I pitched and played SS in high school. I grew up w/Harry Jones and Mudcat Grant announcing Indians games. Mudcat would utter "...a little chin music, Harry!" So, I always understood the tradition and importance of brushing a hitter off the plate. However, times have changed. I am not sure that intentionally hitting a guy w/a hard object that is traveling at over 90 MPH is something baseball should tolerate. The Tony Conigliaro story, who was hit by I believe--Jack Hamilton--is proof of that. I am not saying this will happen, but imagine.........a pitcher throws at a Houston batter and the batter is severely injured or killed. What kind of look is that for baseball?
--I do support the fans continued booing of Houston's players.
I agree the title should be taken away but not given to another team.
An unjust decision to suspend the manager and GM and do nothing to the players. At minimum their WS bonus money and a stiff fine should have been handed out.
I have a deep love for the game of baseball and a thorough knowledge of it's history. Sign stealing has been going on for many moons. Houston took it to a new level and got caught. The fans around the league will be all over them and rightfully so.
Sports are a part of our fabric. But every sport has had scandals. Strange that we love competition and at the same time the drive to win at all cost has been a poison.
Every year at this time I can't wait for baseball to begin. It has been a part of my routine of life for as long as I remember. I miss coaching and the dugout big time. I love the smell of the grass in the spring and the sounds of the game.
When I see young men in their prime report to spring training I think wow what a life to have. Being young without a ache in your body. Playing ball and getting paid a ton of dough. I could do that for all eternity. Like coming out of the corn.
Not too surprising with the game being played in March and a real possibility of a cancellation/rescheduling. I passed on them this year when they had the presale for STH...
I have no idea if the Indians can afford Lindor, not being privy to their financials. But I do know that if $200M would sign Lindor long-term, it would have happened already. From what I've heard and read, he's looking for at least $35M per year for 10-12 years.
Jc I expect Lindor to sign a deal worth quite a bit more than 8 years 200 million ... I’d expect it to be 10 years 350 million at least
That was my thought as well. I was of the understanding that the Indians were willing to go $20 million/year, but that Frankie wasn't. (this was a few years back, while he was still a 4-5 years (IIRC) from free agency)
I bet Frankie will be looking for 10 years at $40 per when he hits the market.
I don't know where you live/would be coming from, but it's a good time, and inexpensive. We've been there for the Hens and Hounds night - yes, you can take your dog!
Daughter got Jim Leylands autograph there. Int. story: We were sitting in what I think is called the Crow's nest - first base sideline, right where people walk in to the private suites. Halfway through the game, lady in front of me said "I can't believe that guy is standing there, smoking." (guy was behind us) I turned to look............holy cow, it's Jim Leyland!!! Told Sooga "grab your ball, and we'll go ask him for an autograph. She walked up, and he obliged, but didn't have a pen.
I left Sooga there to go ask for a pen. Jim spent the entire few minutes I was gone talking to Sooga.
The Tigers had a home game earlier in the day, and after that Leyland drove down to Toledo to watch someone......Kinda cool. We still have the ball, and the picture I took of her talking with him...
Based on the AAV it's not going to be that much more.
The Indians aren't paying Lindor because they don't want to, not because they can't.
Their highest salary cap has been around $126 million, IIRC. They are currently under $100 million. A $40 million salary would be between 30% and 40% of our salary total.
Based on the AAV it's not going to be that much more.
The Indians aren't paying Lindor because they don't want to, not because they can't.
Their highest salary cap has been around $126 million, IIRC. They are currently under $100 million. A $40 million salary would be between 30% and 40% of our salary total.
And? How much does the team make in a year, profit?
You see, you can point to past expenses, that doesn't change the fact that they can still certainly afford it.
The team takes in roughly 280+ million a year in revenue. They can handle it, they just chose not to.
Based on the AAV it's not going to be that much more.
The Indians aren't paying Lindor because they don't want to, not because they can't.
Their highest salary cap has been around $126 million, IIRC. They are currently under $100 million. A $40 million salary would be between 30% and 40% of our salary total.
Your argument that they shouldn't spend more is that they are cheap.
That would have to include the income from the sale of STO to FoxSports. I have seen estimates of $70 million for media. The Indians are in the bottom 3rd in attendance, despite having the most wins over the past 4 seasons. (combined)
I would love to see a breakdown of that $280 million number.
MLB just signed a new TV deal with FoxSports for their weekly game, the playoffs, and World Series. This deal is reported at about $525 million/year total, or about $17 million/team.
Not to mention having to buy out minority owner, John Sherman's share when he bought the Royals, funding numerous minor league teams, along with their players, manager, and coaches. Not to mention salaries and benefits for front office personnel, scouting staff, sales and administrative staff, debt interest, taxes, and so on.
MLB just signed a new TV deal with FoxSports for their weekly game, the playoffs, and World Series. This deal is reported at about $525 million/year total, or about $17 million/team.
Your numbers are off a bit. The deal with Fox Sports extended the deal 7 years for $5.1B which breaks down to $22.7M+ per team.
And as Craig said, the Indians could absolutely do this if they wanted to. Paying Lindor $35 million a year doesn’t add $35 million to payroll; he’s making $17.5 million plus benefits already and the team’s estimated payroll is under $110 million. The old “but Dan, how can they afford the rest of the team if they’re paying Lindor?” argument doesn’t quite work here because by and large, the Indians aren’t paying the rest of the team anyway, even with Lindor making $17.5 million. Trevor Bauer and Corey Kluber are gone. The outfield, putting up less than half the wins of the Twins outfield, only entered 2019 with a single player making over $600,000 (Leonys Martin).
Even leaving aside the argument that of course Cleveland can afford to sign Lindor because the owner of the club is a billionaire, there’s still the matter of Cleveland’s precedent for spending and the framework necessary to devote a significant amount of payroll to a single player. It’s certainly helpful to understand Cleveland’s revenues and profits. According to Forbes, every team receives about $90 million from MLB. Add in close to $50 million for their local television contract, and Cleveland covers last year’s payroll with $10 million to spare before they even sell a single ticket. In 2018, Forbes estimated a $16 million profit for Cleveland even after a $150 million payroll. After a lackluster offseason a winter ago, the team lost around 190,000 fans in attendance for 2019. While that probably cost the team around $10 million, the team dropped payroll by $20 million.
Cleveland has dropped another $25 million off the payroll this offseason, but even if they lose another 200,000 fans, they’ll still end up with an extra $15 million or so at the end of the season. In summary, with a $150 million payroll and around 1.9 million fans, the team earns profits of around $15 million. Cutting payroll by $50 million and losing 400,000 fans leads to an extra $25 million in profits. It’s easy to see why this might be appealing to ownership and how this is one of the bigger problems facing the sport at the moment.
Quote:
There’s also the idea of a Francisco Lindor contract taking up too much payroll. We can throw different percentages around in terms of what might be too much, but keep in mind that payrolls tend to escalate over time. For argument’s sake, let’s say Lindor signed a 12-year, $375 million contract today that paid him $20 million this year, $25 million next year, and $33 million over the 10 years after that. Let’s also conservatively assume that Cleveland will be running a $130 million payroll in 2022 when the free agent years of Lindor begin. In 2022, Lindor’s contract will take up 25% of payroll, which is a large number. As payroll increases though, that percentage drops. In 2009 and 2019, Cleveland was in the low-20s in terms of payroll ranks, but payroll increased by 67% over that time. While we can’t assume the exact same growth, Lindor’s contract moves from 25% of the payroll to 20% at the midway point to 15% by the contract’s end.
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Arguing that Cleveland isn’t as small of a market and revenue-driver as one might think, as well as pointing out the lack of evidence that handing a big contract to Lindor would cause irreparable harm, might not make for a slam dunk case for a massive contract extension. But it is important to properly frame the issue. Cleveland isn’t Tampa Bay. It’s not even Cincinnati or Kansas City. Their club’s decent television deal and middle-of-the-pack ticket prices coupled with slightly below-average attendance puts the club pretty close to the middle in terms of revenue and generally profitable with a payroll around $150 million. That they are cutting payroll and essentially losing attendance on purpose to drive more profits is worth mentioning in any conversation regarding Lindor’s contract status. It’s not about whether Cleveland can afford Lindor. Of course they can. It’s about whether a $350 million or more contract for Lindor fits into their traditional payroll framework taking into account future salary obligations. And the answer to that question is yes, Lindor absolutely fits.
Dave ; What is Francona's infatuation with Cimber ?
I'm sure I don't know, especially now with the new rule forcing relievers to face 3 batters. I suppose they thought of Cimber as a match-up righty, because of his sidearm/submarine delivery, but to me his pitches hang there like matzoh balls. He gets hit hard. Its one thing to have an unorthodox delivery if you have great movement and control, like Quisenberry or dominant stuff, like Gossage. But Cimber's stuff is batting-practice-bad, IMO. I hope he doesn't make the team this spring.
Oscar Mercado left today's game with a left wrist injury after making a diving catch. Early diagnosis is that it is sprained. Further evaluation tomorrow (MRI) - cross your fingers.
Oscar Mercado left today's game with a left wrist injury after making a diving catch. Early diagnosis is that it is sprained. Further evaluation tomorrow (MRI) - cross your fingers.
I know, and its annoying. One day its something innocuous like a sprained wrist, and the next thing you know he's having surgery for torn ligaments or something else equally bad. Hoping for good news, or we'll be watching Delino DeShields all year in CF.
Oscar Mercado left today's game with a left wrist injury after making a diving catch. Early diagnosis is that it is sprained. Further evaluation tomorrow (MRI) - cross your fingers.
No update yet on Oscar Mercado’s left wrist. Terry Francona said the team will consult with noted hand specialist Dr. Thomas Graham and a clearer update will be available after.
Poor attendance at tribe games the past 5 years. You complain about Dolan being cheap, I call you cheap.
You can bring drink boxes, peanuts, and sandwiches into the game. Look it up, highest attendance the last 5 years was #22 in MLB, after a World Series performance.
It’s never been expensive, you’re just making excuses.
Poor attendance at tribe games the past 5 years. You complain about Dolan being cheap, I call you cheap.
You can bring drink boxes, peanuts, and sandwiches into the game. Look it up, highest attendance the last 5 years was #22 in MLB, after a World Series performance.
It’s never been expensive, you’re just making excuses.
Not sure why you're replying to me with this, because I never said the Dolans were cheap, nor did I complain about ticket prices or concession costs at Progressive Field.
Or was this post another example of why Quick Reply needs to go away?
Some Cleveland Indians fans are extremely upset about the Milwaukee Brewers signing MVP Christian Yelich to a nine-year, $215-million contract extension.
Why can’t the Tribe do something like that with Francisco Lindor?
After all, since when is Milwaukee a major market? Cleveland is bigger!
On the surface, that makes some sense.
But Lindor and Yelich made two very different money decisions after their second season in the big leagues – and those decisions are why Yelich cut a deal with Milwaukee.
And it’s also why Lindor could end up with a contract worth twice as much as Yelich when the Tribe shortstop hits free agency after the 2021 season.
Here’s the situation:
1. Yelich was the 23rd overall pick by the Miami Marlins in the 2010 draft. He reached the majors in 2013.
2. In his first two big league seasons, Yelich showed some promise. He batted .286 (.765 OPS) with 13 HR and 70 RBI in 873 at bats. But he didn’t look like a superstar.
3. Heading into his third season (2016), Miami offered him a contract extension to “buy out” at least two years of free agency. Yelich was interested in security. He signed a seven-year, $49-million deal.
4. Yelich was traded to Milwaukee in January of 2018. At that point, he had been a big leaguer for four years. The outfielder had yet to make an All-Star team.
5. Playing in hitter-friendly Milwaukee, Yelich averaged 40 HR and 104 RBI over the last two seasons, batting .328. He won an MVP award. He’s a legitimate superstar... but that didn’t happen until 2018.
6. Yelich still had three years left on his 2015 Miami contract when the Brewers approached him about an extension. He had very little leverage. He would not be a free agent until he reached the age of 31.
7. Yelich made the same decision now that he did in 2015. They offered him a lot of money. He likes Milwaukee. The Brewers took two years from his old deal and added seven more... coming up with a nine-year, $218-million deal.
8. Yelich’s future was set up by the decision he made in 2015. Is there anything wrong with being guaranteed nearly $50 million? By the end of his new contract, he will have pocketed about $260 million,
THE OTHER ROAD
Meanwhile, Lindor made a different decision after his first two big league seasons.
1. Unlike Yelich, Lindor emerged as an immediate star once he reached the Majors. He batted .313 as a rookie in 2015, .301 in 2016. There are lots of other stats to prove he was a great player in the field and at bat.
2. Lindor was an All-Star and Gold Glove winner in 2016. In the spring of 2017, the Indians made their first big push for an extension. I heard it was for more than $100 million over seven years. This was the same point where Miami offered Yelich a seven-year extension for half the money of Lindor.
3. Lindor quickly turned down the extension. Had he accepted it, then the Indians would be in much the same position as Milwaukee with Yelich. They’d have him under control for several more years. That could have led to a more “team friendly” second extension.
4. Instead, Lindor and his agent kept their eyes on free agency, where they know contracts grow richer each year.
5. Lindor can look at contracts such as $330 million (Bryce Harper with the Philadelphia Phillies), $300 million (Manny Machado with the San Diego Padres) and $324 million (Gerrit Cole with the New York Yankees) and correctly think, “I’m better than those guys.”
6. Lindor hits the open market after the 2021 season and he could join Mike Trout in the $400 million club. He was headed in that direction from the moment he rejected the various Tribe offers in 2017 (and since then).
THE GRADY SIZEMORE EXAMPLE
Other agents and media members could criticize Yelich for signing that seven-year deal back in 2015. But $49 million is $49 million.
And those who knock the first contract operate on one key assumption: The player stays healthy.
In 2006, Grady Sizemore was heading into his second MLB season with the Tribe. He signed a six-year, $24-million deal. Word was Sizemore made a mistake by delaying free agency for two years.
Sizemore made All-Star teams in 2006, 2007 and 2008. Then he got hurt. And he kept getting hurt. In the last three years of that deal, he made about $18 million and never could regain anything close to his All-Star form.
A more recent example is Michael Brantley.
In 2014, he signed a four-year, $25-million extension with the Tribe. He was a star in the first two years of that deal. But injuries hit in 2016-17, he played only 101 total games (earning $13 million in that span).
That contract also included an $11-million team option in 2018. The Indians gambled on Brantley getting healthy and they picked it up. He was an All-Star.
That 2014 extension gave Brantley two seasons to recover from shoulder and ankle surgeries.
THE BOTTOM LINE
Yelich wanted to protect himself and his family in case of injury. He also wasn’t an All-Star until his sixth big league season (2018). There are a lot of sound reasons to explain why the Milwaukee outfielder grabbed the big money when first made available.
Lindor received a $2.9-million signing bonus after being the Tribe’s top pick in the 2011 draft. That set him up as a multi-millionaire at the age of 18.
It also allowed him to play year-to-year, count on staying healthy and know he’d begin to cash in when he became arbitration eligible. In the last two years (2019-2020), he’s been paid $28 million.
Lindor is an elite player and wants to be paid like it. Assuming he stays away from a major injury, he’s in position for a monster contract.
While they don’t publicly admit it, the Indians know at some point they will probably have to trade him. The only question is when that will happen.
My opinion is that Lindor is being disingenuous. He has every right to get as big a deal as he can get, but he has no right to dictate the team's payroll policy without any working knowledge of their financial situation. I believe he wants a mega contract in a media center city like NY, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, etc, while still trying to maintain this "Cleveland is my home; I love it here." canard. Meanwhile, his math leaves $85M for the other 25 players on the roster ($3.4M per player), while he gets $35M. That may work in the short term, but what happens when its time to pay our other top guys (Ramirez, Clevinger, Bieber, Reyes, Mercado, et al)?
Love the kid .. But they better hope someone comes calling with a real offer come the trade deadline this Season ! . Feel like the first half of the season is going to really tough ..
Left field is a problem ( bat ).. I am not sold on this Shields guy and have no idea what this new Santana can do ..
Feel like Francona is going to get hurt by some of the bullpen arms he will keep coming out of camp.
My opinion is that Lindor is being disingenuous. He has every right to get as big a deal as he can get, but he has no right to dictate the team's payroll policy without any working knowledge of their financial situation. I believe he wants a mega contract in a media center city like NY, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, etc, while still trying to maintain this "Cleveland is my home; I love it here." canard. Meanwhile, his math leaves $85M for the other 25 players on the roster ($3.4M per player), while he gets $35M. That may work in the short term, but what happens when its time to pay our other top guys (Ramirez, Clevinger, Bieber, Reyes, Mercado, et al)?
I don't follow baseball very much in recent years. However, when watching the Tribe, there is no doubt that Lindor is a great player.
With all due respect, I do not follow your logic of not paying one of the best players in the game. Owners make a ton of money off of what the players do. I think that you would want to keep your best players and field a competitive team.
Not paying your best players is about as dumb as the tanking strategy that some think is "smart."
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer GOODYEAR, Arizona – Scribbles in my notebook after watching the Indians beat the Giants 11-7 Monday:
1. Before the the Tribe played San Francisco, Mike Clevinger told a few of us media types he was feeling very good after throwing his first bullpen session of the spring. “It’s real good,” he said. “Nothing is sore.”
2. Clevinger had “minor” knee surgery on February 14. He is expected to open the season on the disabled list. But the right-hander is excited about his progress after throwing 25 pitches. A bullpen session is not a game of catch. The pitcher throws from the mound and uses several of his pitches. It’s a big step to becoming game ready.
3. Then came the game, where Aaron Civale allowed one run and one hit in three innings. The 24-year-old right-hander struck out six. That’s right, six of his nine outs came via the strikeout.
4. “He threw one (bad) fastball for a home run,” said Manager Terry Francona. “He got up to his velocity. For a young kid, he has amazing self awareness of what he wants to do...he’s a pretty mature kid.”
5. I talked to Civale after his start, mentioning he wasn’t in big league camp a year ago. In fact, I don’t recall hearing Civale’s name among top prospects last spring. In 2018, Civale had a 5-7 record with a 3.89 ERA at Class AA Akron. He also had a couple of minor injuries that season.
6. Civale was sent back to Akron to open 2019. He was 4-0 with a 2.67 ERA. Then he moved to Class AAA Columbus (3-1, 2.13 ERA). By July, he was in Cleveland.
7. Monday, Civale looked like the mature pitcher who had a 3-4 record and 2.34 ERA in 10 starts with the Tribe. He controlled the strike zone. He explained he has six pitches...three different fastballs. “I have a good idea when to use them now,” he said.
8. Civale pulled a groin muscle early in camp. He was worried for a while, but this as was his second performance. The only run in five innings is the homer. “I really feel good,” he said. “I’m getting my body in the right shape. My goal is to be able to throw 100 pitches (by the opening of the regular season).”
9. The Indians need Civale. Clevinger is out, at least for a while. Carlos Carrasco is not pitching right now due to some elbow soreness, which is supposed to be minor. Shane Bieber is the opening day starter. He has been dominate all spring ( 7 2/3 scoreless innings). Now Civale looks strong. Those two could be at the top of the rotation early.
10. Jose Ramirez is having a strong spring, hitting .320 with a pair of HRs and doubles. Francona mentioned how “He’s hitting the ball fair.” When Ramirez was in his long early-season slump in 2019, when he hit the ball hard – it often went foul. He is working on being more patient at the plate.
11. Domingo Santana dropped a fly ball in right field, It was somewhat windy and the sun was bright. But no one else dropped a fly ball Monday. He led all outfielders in errors last season. He is 5-for-25 this spring with 10 strikeouts.
12. Santana is on a 1-year, $1.5 million contract. He probably will play mostly DH. He is expected to make the team, but that contract is not the kind for long-term job security if he fails to produce.
13. Bradley Zimmer had been struggling most of camp, but Monday he lashed a single and a double – both to center field. He’s 5-for-25 this spring. He is playing a lot with Oscar Mercado resting his slightly sprained wrist.
14. Greg Allen is pressing, 2-for-21. Allen and Zimmer are likely to open the season at Class AAA Columbus.
15. Brad Hand threw a scoreless inning. He has allowed only one run in five spring innings, striking out six. Francona praised Hand’s slider. The Indians are asking him to go slowly and build up his arm strength. He had a “tired arm” at the end of last season.
My opinion is that Lindor is being disingenuous. He has every right to get as big a deal as he can get, but he has no right to dictate the team's payroll policy without any working knowledge of their financial situation. I believe he wants a mega contract in a media center city like NY, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, etc, while still trying to maintain this "Cleveland is my home; I love it here." canard. Meanwhile, his math leaves $85M for the other 25 players on the roster ($3.4M per player), while he gets $35M. That may work in the short term, but what happens when its time to pay our other top guys (Ramirez, Clevinger, Bieber, Reyes, Mercado, et al)?
Yes, because we have seen over and over again the owners of major sports franchises being honest with fans and players...…
How anyone actually thinks the team could not afford this is beyond me.
Any remember while back, the Pirates were crying about being a "mid level market team" and not having a chance, etc. They couldn't pay players, didn't have the money, blah blah blah.
Then someone leaked their financials and it showed they were like in the top 10 in baseball on money cleared by the organization, and like 2nd to last or last in payroll?
Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
The team certainly can afford it.
The problem is, they don't want to. The Dolans are happier making 60 million and keeping as in their pocket, instead of 30 million and winning a title. Until that changes, nothing else will.
That may work in the short term, but what happens when its time to pay our other top guys (Ramirez, Clevinger, Bieber, Reyes, Mercado, et al)?
I know this a crazy idea but how about the guy who is worth $5.5 billion pays the players what they are worth.
You are talking about the owner we wish we had, and I am talking about the one we actually have. Nowhere in their ownership history have the Dolans paid one of their top free agents market value to keep them. Not Manny, not Thome, not CC, and not Cliff Lee. Neither were the Jacobs willing to pony up for Albert Belle. Wishing won't make it so. Fans cannot force an owner to spend what he feels he can't afford to spend, when only he has the whole picture of expenses vs revenues. Fans cannot force an owner to sell the team. Reality: they are simply NOT going to pay Lindor a figure approaching 33% of the total 26-man roster payroll.
Factor in that they had to come up with $200M-287M when minority owner John Sherman divested his minority ownership share to buy the Royals.
Factor in that some local media think Lindor is looking for a lot more than $300M or $350M. Apparently its more like $400m, putting Lindor into Mike Trout company, making he and Trout the two highest paid in MLB. Trout's contract is 22% of the Angels' total payroll; Lindor's would be 32% of the Indians total (@ $120M total).
I would love to see Lindor stay. I wish the Dolan family would commit to a $150-180M annual payroll. But if it doesn't make sense to them to pay that, I would rather watch a team that will still contend without Lindor than one with Lindor and a mixture of marginal major leaguers and a few other good players surrounding him.
I would rather watch a team that will still contend without Lindor than one with Lindor and a mixture of marginal major leaguers and a few other good players surrounding him.
Or, and I know this might sound crazy, pay Lindor and the other players.
I would love to see Lindor stay. I wish the Dolan family would commit to a $150-180M annual payroll. But if it doesn't make sense to them to pay that, I would rather watch a team that will still contend without Lindor than one with Lindor and a mixture of marginal major leaguers and a few other good players surrounding him.
I think most would argue and agree that you are more of a contender with Lindor than without.
Two in the hand kind of deal.
You realize we very well could be the next pirates with 20 years of losing if we don't try to keep up with a decent payroll.
Your not going to be a contender spending less than 120 million in MLB, and if you are - its a one or two year fluke.
I would rather watch a team that will still contend without Lindor than one with Lindor and a mixture of marginal major leaguers and a few other good players surrounding him.
Or, and I know this might sound crazy, pay Lindor and the other players.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall. They are not going to do that. Its their team. Its their money.
I would rather watch a team that will still contend without Lindor than one with Lindor and a mixture of marginal major leaguers and a few other good players surrounding him.
Or, and I know this might sound crazy, pay Lindor and the other players.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall. They are not going to do that. Its their team. Its their money.
We know they are not going to do that. You realize that's the issue right? Instead of making excuses for them not doing that, maybe hold them accountable for not doing it..... Just a thought.
I would rather watch a team that will still contend without Lindor than one with Lindor and a mixture of marginal major leaguers and a few other good players surrounding him.
Or, and I know this might sound crazy, pay Lindor and the other players.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall. They are not going to do that. Its their team. Its their money.
I would rather watch a team that will still contend without Lindor than one with Lindor and a mixture of marginal major leaguers and a few other good players surrounding him.
Or, and I know this might sound crazy, pay Lindor and the other players.
I feel like I'm talking to a wall. They are not going to do that. Its their team. Its their money.
We know they are not going to do that. You realize that's the issue right? Instead of making excuses for them not doing that, maybe hold them accountable for not doing it..... Just a thought.
Here's another thought: if you can't see their books, you don't know what you don't know ... compound ignorance. I am not saying that about you in particular. I mean all of us.
The Bad: The Dolans are never (unless they completely shock the world) going to sign one of their free agents to a big contract. Letting Brantley go was a big mistake. This is unfortunate for fans. Can they afford to pay Lindor and have $120M payroll? Yes. Can they afford to pay Lindor and carry a $150M payroll which is closer to what is needed to truly compete? I have no idea. Paul Dolan says something stupid that grates on the fans every time he speaks.
The Good: The Dolans hire people that are extremely good at their job and let them do their jobs. They do not meddle and they do not fire people. They put out a good product. They win a lot of games. Probably one of the best run organizations in all of sports.
The Pathetic: We have a future HOFer in Lindor and some other really good players that could still make a deep run in the playoffs and they are choosing to carry an $88M payroll. Inexcusable.
Other notes, Opening Day is still not sold out. It typically sells out in less than 5 minutes.
Here's another thought: if you can't see their books, you don't know what you don't know ... compound ignorance. I am not saying that about you in particular. I mean all of us.
Once again, it was shown that 10 years ago - the pirates after completing their 18th straight losing season, were pocketing 15 million in cash, and using 44 million of baseballs revenue sharing on other forms of expenses.
You see, the issue is that they get a ton of money form MLB, and are not mandated to use it on making the team better or signing players or free agents.
I would only expect, those number have gone up DRASTICALLY over the last 10 years, and probably have doubled since then.
So while you say I don't know their books, we have an idea of what teams do. As every team that was leaked 10 years ago, showed a lot of money not being spent.
The Bad: The Dolans are never (unless they completely shock the world) going to sign one of their free agents to a big contract. Letting Brantley go was a big mistake. This is unfortunate for fans. Can they afford to pay Lindor and have $120M payroll? Yes. Can they afford to pay Lindor and carry a $150M payroll which is closer to what is needed to truly compete? I have no idea. Paul Dolan says something stupid that grates on the fans every time he speaks.
The Good: The Dolans hire people that are extremely good at their job and let them do their jobs. They do not meddle and they do not fire people. They put out a good product. They win a lot of games. Probably one of the best run organizations in all of sports.
The Pathetic: We have a future HOFer in Lindor and some other really good players that could still make a deep run in the playoffs and they are choosing to carry an $88M payroll. Inexcusable.
Other notes, Opening Day is still not sold out. It typically sells out in less than 5 minutes.
Exactly, because the Dolans are looking at this way.
Why pay frankie and a team 120 million to make 150 million an pocket 30
when you can pay 80 million, make 120 million, and pocket 40.
That's the problem. The Dolans are more willing to suck because they when business comes to terms, they will probably make more sucking than maintaining a good team.
The Bad: The Dolans are never (unless they completely shock the world) going to sign one of their free agents to a big contract. Letting Brantley go was a big mistake. This is unfortunate for fans. Can they afford to pay Lindor and have $120M payroll? Yes. Can they afford to pay Lindor and carry a $150M payroll which is closer to what is needed to truly compete? I have no idea. Paul Dolan says something stupid that grates on the fans every time he speaks.
The Good: The Dolans hire people that are extremely good at their job and let them do their jobs. They do not meddle and they do not fire people. They put out a good product. They win a lot of games. Probably one of the best run organizations in all of sports.
The Pathetic: We have a future HOFer in Lindor and some other really good players that could still make a deep run in the playoffs and they are choosing to carry an $88M payroll. Inexcusable.
Other notes, Opening Day is still not sold out. It typically sells out in less than 5 minutes.
Exactly, because the Dolans are looking at this way.
Why pay frankie and a team 120 million to make 150 million an pocket 30
when you can pay 80 million, make 120 million, and pocket 40.
That's the problem. The Dolans are more willing to suck because they when business comes to terms, they will probably make more sucking than maintaining a good team.
Once again, it was shown that 10 years ago - the pirates after completing their 18th straight losing season, were pocketing 15 million in cash, and using 44 million of baseballs revenue sharing on other forms of expenses.
Once again, MLB is not the NFL. There is wide divergence from team to team regarding many variables, including revenues, expenses, and receipt of luxury tax disbursements.
Once again, it was shown that 10 years ago - the pirates after completing their 18th straight losing season, were pocketing 15 million in cash, and using 44 million of baseballs revenue sharing on other forms of expenses.
Once again, MLB is not the NFL. There is wide divergence from team to team regarding many variables, including revenues, expenses, and receipt of luxury tax disbursements.
Once again, it was shown that 10 years ago - the pirates after completing their 18th straight losing season, were pocketing 15 million in cash, and using 44 million of baseballs revenue sharing on other forms of expenses.
Once again, MLB is not the NFL. There is wide divergence from team to team regarding many variables, including revenues, expenses, and receipt of luxury tax disbursements.
Do you think the Indians lose money?
Does an owner need to lose money before people stop calling them cheap? This may come as a surprise to some, but most people who are in business do so because they are trying to make money. Nobody goes into business thinking "This will never work; I'll probably lose everything. But that's okay as long as no one thinks I'm cheap.".
I doubt the Dolans are losing money, but I also don't know how much they make, or need to make, to make it worth their investment.
Once again, it was shown that 10 years ago - the pirates after completing their 18th straight losing season, were pocketing 15 million in cash, and using 44 million of baseballs revenue sharing on other forms of expenses.
Once again, MLB is not the NFL. There is wide divergence from team to team regarding many variables, including revenues, expenses, and receipt of luxury tax disbursements.
Once again, it was shown that 10 years ago - the pirates after completing their 18th straight losing season, were pocketing 15 million in cash, and using 44 million of baseballs revenue sharing on other forms of expenses.
Once again, MLB is not the NFL. There is wide divergence from team to team regarding many variables, including revenues, expenses, and receipt of luxury tax disbursements.
Do you think the Indians lose money?
Does an owner need to lose money before people stop calling them cheap? This may come as a surprise to some, but most people who are in business do so because they are trying to make money. Nobody goes into business thinking "This will never work; I'll probably lose everything. But that's okay as long as no one thinks I'm cheap.".
I doubt the Dolans are losing money, but I also don't know how much they make, or need to make, to make it worth their investment.
So you think its ok for a scenario like this:
spend 80 million on payroll to pocket 30 million
instead of paying 120 million on payroll to pocket 20 million
Because based on the information we say in the leaks 10 years ago, that's more than likely happening.
The Bad: The Dolans are never (unless they completely shock the world) going to sign one of their free agents to a big contract. Letting Brantley go was a big mistake. This is unfortunate for fans. Can they afford to pay Lindor and have $120M payroll? Yes. Can they afford to pay Lindor and carry a $150M payroll which is closer to what is needed to truly compete? I have no idea. Paul Dolan says something stupid that grates on the fans every time he speaks.
The Good: The Dolans hire people that are extremely good at their job and let them do their jobs. They do not meddle and they do not fire people. They put out a good product. They win a lot of games. Probably one of the best run organizations in all of sports.
The Pathetic: We have a future HOFer in Lindor and some other really good players that could still make a deep run in the playoffs and they are choosing to carry an $88M payroll. Inexcusable.
Other notes, Opening Day is still not sold out. It typically sells out in less than 5 minutes.
Exactly, because the Dolans are looking at this way.
Why pay frankie and a team 120 million to make 150 million an pocket 30
when you can pay 80 million, make 120 million, and pocket 40.
That's the problem. The Dolans are more willing to suck because they when business comes to terms, they will probably make more sucking than maintaining a good team.
The Indians have not "sucked"! Geesh.
Did they suck before Frankie, Jose, etc get here? In 09-10-11-12, they most definitely sucked.
Yet they were making millions in those years too. You see, they don't care if they are good or not, as long as they are still making their profit margins.
The Bad: The Dolans are never (unless they completely shock the world) going to sign one of their free agents to a big contract. Letting Brantley go was a big mistake. This is unfortunate for fans. Can they afford to pay Lindor and have $120M payroll? Yes. Can they afford to pay Lindor and carry a $150M payroll which is closer to what is needed to truly compete? I have no idea. Paul Dolan says something stupid that grates on the fans every time he speaks.
The Good: The Dolans hire people that are extremely good at their job and let them do their jobs. They do not meddle and they do not fire people. They put out a good product. They win a lot of games. Probably one of the best run organizations in all of sports.
The Pathetic: We have a future HOFer in Lindor and some other really good players that could still make a deep run in the playoffs and they are choosing to carry an $88M payroll. Inexcusable.
Other notes, Opening Day is still not sold out. It typically sells out in less than 5 minutes.
Exactly, because the Dolans are looking at this way.
Why pay frankie and a team 120 million to make 150 million an pocket 30
when you can pay 80 million, make 120 million, and pocket 40.
That's the problem. The Dolans are more willing to suck because they when business comes to terms, they will probably make more sucking than maintaining a good team.
The Indians have not "sucked"! Geesh.
Did they suck before Frankie, Jose, etc get here? In 09-10-11-12, they most definitely sucked.
Yet they were making millions in those years too. You see, they don't care if they are good or not, as long as they are still making their profit margins.
The Indians player expense last year, including bonuses and benefits, was $157 million. That does not include administrative costs, coaching salaries, park improvements, and other expenses.
And, again ..... the Indians have the best record over the past 4 seasons. They suck though.
Did they suck before Frankie, Jose, etc get here? In 09-10-11-12, they most definitely sucked.
Yet they were making millions in those years too. You see, they don't care if they are good or not, as long as they are still making their profit margins.
Then why did they fire Acta and throw money at Tito if they do not care about winning and continue to extend his contract?
Why sign Encarnacion?
The Dolans have their flaws, but to say they do not care if they win or lose and it's only about profits is disingenuous.
The Yankees spent a ton and managed to appear in only one play-in WC playoff game from 2013-2016.
The San Fran Giants have been bad for the last three years.
Lost of ebbs and flows in baseball.
Given the payroll disparity, the Indians should be given credit for consistently putting out a good product.
Given the payroll disparity, the Indians should be given credit for consistently putting out a good product.
This is definitely true. The Indians' front office is always on the cutting edge of the industry and constantly innovating. They have to do that because the owner is cheap. Other teams like the Yankees and Dodgers do the same thing but are not cheap. It's crazy that the Indians have been able to sustain success for so long while also having a small(ish) payroll.
), Civale, Plesac, and Plutko, along with a good group of prospects coming up soon. Our front office seems to have become very good at developing young pitching. Its a really good turn of events that bodes well for the future.
