The Good:

--Manziel made two beautiful long throws.

--Crow ran really hard.

--The front seven got a lot of pressure in the first half.

--Gipson is a very good player.

--The run blocking was better.

--Hawkins made some plays.

--Hartline's blocking.

--The team played hard and did not give up.

--Good job of not committing too many penalties.

--Andy Lee had another outstanding game.

--A. Bryant w/some good pressures.

--Blocking on special teams.

--Robertson is really improving. He makes plays.

--K. Williams has good closing speed. Quick twitch guy.

--JM didn't throw a pick.

--Schwartz had a nice game.

--We won our home opener.

--The unis were a lot better than last week's gaudy costumes.

The God-Like:

--Benji. Amazing performance.

The Bad:

--Johnny needs to secure the ball.

--Run defense looked poor again.

--Bittonio w/a couple more penalties.

--Haden continues to give up big pass plays at inopportune times.

--Other than the big broken play, the offense was trash for most of the second half.

The Ugly:

--Bowe ducking on his one attempt at catching the ball.

Good: aggressive play for calling offence and defence in he first 1/2
Bad: going into a shell for the last part
Ugly: watching Mack get manhandled more then once.

I can't add much to your post; it captured the essence of the game. However, the above comment: IIRC, we picked up two critical 1st downs on that possession mostly by running the ball. We did what we had to do when it counted...

That is why I used this word: "most"

Good:

JF long balls. Dead accurate and hit Benji in stride. The pressure and abuse we put on Marcus. Special teams kicking by Andy. We got less flags, always a plus there! WEST FUMBLING LOL!

Bad:
We started to crumble there on defense and allowed them to get back. Two more yards and they would have had a 100 yard back.

Ugly:
Bowe, totally useless. I don't think Hartline made any catches today, but he at least made some solid blocks, many on the key plays for us this game. Bowe is worthless.

Good list and just a few adds..

On the good - yards after contact I thought was great. Everyone was pushing for extra yards. Also, JM looked comfortable in the pocket and seemed to trust this line and hung in there..also all the PF calls on Tennessee ... also 30 run attempts and when we handed off on 4th down we got it...best of all got a full team effort win!

On the bad - Mack getting blown up a few times..middle of the field recievers - didn't seem like we look there...I keep hoping for Hartline will be hit on some slants .. JM on QB sneak may not be the best.

On the ugly - Corner run containment overall - why so open? and Mingo's angel on MM (still bugs me) in the 4th (i'm nit-picking probably)

Good
- Johnny's first few drives ... you could tell he was prepared.
- Robertson and Kirksey were all over the place
- Haden was on his A game today I thought
- Crow with a few big carries
- Benji ... nothing else to be said
- Andy Lee and the coverage teams got an A+

Bad
- Johnny's (and the offense's) lull in the 3rd quarter
- Mack's overall play ... yeesh
- Our run d in the 3rd quarter
- Donte Whitner plays poorly 90% of the time

Ugly
- Tennesse for most of the day

I still think that Ward > Whitner.

There is no question in my mind.

for sure, if he wasn't from ohio people would be bashing him more than they ever did ward.

I haven't posted in a bit (been busy) but I couldn't miss the chance to jump on here and read some thoughts on the game today. Here are mine...

The good...

-Manziel made a couple of nice throws and showed nice poise in the pocket.
-Crowell & Duke both ran hard.
-The run blocking, to a degree, showed up today.
-The front seven and the entire defense looked very good today. I give them a total pass for the 4th quarter as our offense absolutely refused to stay on the field. FACT is that if you're constantly on the field, you'll eventually ware out and get tired.

The bad...

-Ugh I hate the right side of our offensive line.
-Alex Mack got handled today. Al Woods is absolutely huge though, so I'll give him a pass....
-Barkevious Mingo & Dwayne Bowe. Are these guys invisible?

The ugly...

-I thought our play calling was absolutely atrocious. I appreciate trying to get the run game going, but outside of the TD drives we were vanilla, boring, flat and PREDICTABLE. Where are these passes to the RB's we were told we'd see!!??? Attack the edges, throw some RB screens, bootleg with Manziel more. In my own opinion our offense was a major eye sore for most of the game.

-Not scoring off of the turnovers. This game could have easily been 24-0 at halftime (or at least 17-0).
-Second half pass protection.
-Dwayne Bowe & Barkevious Mingo, I said their names already, but man have these two been disappointing...

I think you have to add in the play calling on O as a good.

In general, they did the right thing to not take a bunch of chances in the 3rd quarter. you are up by 21, why take chances on O.

They flipped the switch when needed at the end.

For me, that says a lot about coaching.

And that was key...

The Good...Armonty Bryant has shown more today than I've seen from Mingo in his multiple years...

An actual pass rush and fired up defense...Kirksey and Dansby looked much better......Desmon Bryant showed up

The bad...Whitner a step slow on every play...Bitinio 2 penalties...Schwartz still gets manhandled alot...Mingo, takes him 20 yards to get to 5 yards...Manziel needs to hold onto the ball

Great...Benji (I was really hard on him last year...no longer timid and that speed is our best weapon...if not for Benji...I think we have the slowest offense in the league...zero threats at RB, WR, TE) Manziels two passes...Tramon Williams play...Harry Douglas for being horrible lol

Along the same vein, you play hard the whole game..you execute your gameplan the whole game...you don't coast, you don't play it safe...Good teams don't do that..good teams go out and try to hang 50 on you. Thats what we should have done. We won and thats great, but to say playcalling was good was a stretch..That being said, given who we had at QB and all that, I totally get the reasoning. But you aren't going to win alot of games when your QB only throws 15 times

I am torn on that aspect. I hated the playcalling in the 2nd half as we handcuffed the QB and didnt allow him to get into any rhythm but at the same time, our D was playing great and we have a young QB that we havent learned to trust yet.

I think going for it on the 4th and not getting it kinda sent them into even more conservative mode as well.

Yeah I think you might be on to something there..it really felt we lost some momentum there. I think you have to give it to your back there and not you 6' 200lb QB...especially as bad as mack has been this year. I really hope they just let the kid play and see how this plays out...we lose nothing doing that...its not like McCown is taking us to the super bowl. I think JFF may have won over some of his doubters in the locker room as well. I think he's in a much better position to try to get this QB thing figured out live than last year. I also think the QB room is much more cohesive and suited for him to be coached up by both Kevin and Josh. The biggest piece of this, I think Josh would be JFF biggest fan. He came here I almost think hoping this scenario played out.

+100

I'll keep if like this...we had Weeden start for us for 2 years... Manziel deserves the same

Manziel appears to be way smarter than Weeden, IMO.

I just haven't seen a lot of head scratching plays from him the last couple of weeks.

And he hasn't gotten clowned by any pre game flags.

My comment likely doesn't belong in this thread, but I haven't seen anyone give due recognition to those two for the improvement in Manziel since the debacle of last year.

The God-like?

The Good -
We won
In comparing to last week, everything looked good.
Manziel overall had a good game
Running game was somewhat productive
The pass rush was awesome
Run defense was pretty good
The reduction in mistakes and penalties was HUGE
Overall intensity, it was noticeable from the very first play

The Bad -
Several times in the second half we picked up 5+ yards on a first down run and failed to get the first down, going backwards
The QB sneak call with a 6' 190 lb QB, I was a fan of going for it, but did NOT want to see the sneak right there.

The Ugly -
Manziel putting the ball on the ground twice, very lucky we picked both of those up.

I'm with you. I think a better mix was in order. If we broke off a decent run, it was a 90% chance we'd be running it again. I'd like to see more bootlegs and screens with the way the Titans were stacking the box.

I kept waiting for that 2nd down playaction fake and go deep but it was just another run lol

For -3 yards.

Overall good game but I'll add my 2cents on a couple things:

1 - Not a fan of Pet saying he played more conservatively in the 2nd half. Allowing a team to hang around striking distance is stupid. Teams that consistently play well do not do that. They keep the pressure on. That doesn't mean we do stupid risky things... it just means keep blitzing them, keep passing when they stack the box. Don't force a run play to "eat clock". Dumb and is a big reason we seem to always see our opponents make a big 2nd half push when we previously had a lead.

2 - QB sneak on 4th down normally is the right call there. This game it wasn't though and Our OC should have picked up on that. How? Easy... look at how Mack was getting pushed around. QB sneaks are great when you can count on decent push from center and/or you surprise them (quick snap). Neither was there for this play which is unusual for us given Mack is usually solid.

Hard to trust a guy the coaches asked to drop back just 5 times in the second half and who still managed to fumble it twice. With two and three score lead and coming off of that, Pettine did the right thing by playing it ultra conservative.

It also speaks volumes about what they really think of him, but that will get overlooked in the Manziel-mania this week.

Yeah a win and Manziel mania is so excruciating to endure right?

Run defense is terrible and will cost us a few games this season

Having JM run the sneak was absurd.

It wouldnt have been bad but Mack was getting no push. Crow or duke would have been the smarter move. Actually the smarter move would have been to take the 3 but thats for another debate lol

Mainly on the right side edge, it seemed... some on the left, some in the middle, but they were able to run outside to the right all day long. I wonder if that's why we always run to the right: because when they run to the right in practice, it's always successful.

Qb sneak is your for sure play when it's inches. JF just needs to learn how to execute it. I liked the quick snap, he just has to get low and push forward.

JMO

No, I get that, but I don't think it was inches, was it? More like a foot or two? (I'll have to look at it again.) And Johnny isn't big enough to help with the push from that far out. It just seemed ridiculous when Crow and Duke were having success on the edge, IMO. I like seeing fakes up the middle then going outside in those situations, that seems to work a good deal of the time.

.

You get credited one post for a period?

I can agree with that. When he said he was worried about keeping the clock running... in the THIRD QUARTER... that's a little too conservative for me. Maybe if it was 35-0, but not at 21-0.

And it wasn't just that we got conservative, we got very vanilla... even the runs and passes had no imagination. 2nd and 5, why not run the boot? Get Manziel out of the pocket and if the guy is open, throw it, if not, get what you can and get down? We didn't try any of that.

I was wondering that myself, and then I wondered if maybe they kept the plays calling a little more simple in case McCown got cleared, they didn't want to plan too much with him having very little practice time.

Will add one thing as most ahs already been covered...

That side arm throw on the bubble screen was sic... DJ may be right he looked like a shortstop.

That sidearm throw shows his athletic prowess IMO ... and he did it so naturally

Johnny is a FABULOUS athlete. He's so quick-twitch and compact.

He's just got to keep progressing with his ball control, accuracy, and decision making

That's because he is a shortstop; he was drafted by the San Diego Padres in the 28th round of the 2013 MLB draft.



http://m.mlb.com/news/article/78703344/johnny-baseball-manziel-drafted-by-padres

well i wrote something then i thought it might derail the topic so.....

!

The Good-
(besides all the things mentioned)
- I was at the game yesterday, the CROWD was very into it and noisy.
- Our DBs did a great job. I think up until about the 4th Q, there was only 1 catch by a Titans WR. I can't rip on Joe Haden too much for that TD pass to DGB...that ball was about 10' high and he made a GREAT catch. No DB could cover that.

The Bad-
- We couldn't cover their TEs at all. Every time I looked up, the middle of the field was wide open for Fasano. This is a combination of bad coverage by our LBs and Safeties.
- Run defense is still frustrating. Too easy to run off tackle for 7 yards every time it seemed.

The Ugly-
- Play calling was blah as blah can be.

Unfortunately... when I see him release the ball like that, after I get passed the "that was a nice display", I wonder if he hurt his elbow and is in pain from the tendinitis.

Not to go all Butch Davis on you .. (I think that's the coach who said it, anyway) but the run defense really had a few plays that were bad, one drive really, and one ig play. They have up that 44 yard run, and IIRC, something like 71 yards on 3 runs.

We have a bunch of new players on the DL, and that is bound to have an impact. Armonty Bryant did not get t play in this defense last year. Meder is new to the team. Starks is hew to the game. Shelton is a rookie. We also have Cooper, another rookie, who has been inactive. This is a very inexperienced DL, and I think that played into some of the problems, and I would think that they will improve as they learn their responsibilities .... much like the defense overall did last year as they got the defense down pat.

It was a truly insightful period.

One of his best posts ever!



(Disclaimer: Yes, that's a joke, for those who cannot tell)

It definitely has something to do with it IMO

A few quick notes, I agree with most of what is up here. I kept an eye on the DL and OL just because I'm sick of staring at the QB all the time.

Good
-A Bryant is crushing it. I think he is a deceptively quick big guy that those Tackles couldn't handle.
-John Hughes looks great again as well.
-JFF is slowing building a portfolio of success. He needs more time to learn and play; he needs probably 1 or 2 more weeks on the bench but if Josh does not cut it, lets pass the keys off.
-


Bad
- Better offensive playcalling. Hawkins and Gabriel are weapons we need to use as well. Not just WR screens but other items
- Whitner might have to get benched later this year for Poyer or Campbell. The key to beating Cleveland is throw to your TEs and it is working.
- Orchard did not impress. The LT just put his hands on him and he couldn't pull of his block. Either do the Wimbley shuffle and run around or learn some moves youngblood.


Ugly
- I want to see Xavier Cooper. Our DL is deep and I'm not sure who he is replacing but he would be a nice option. May be more 4DL spots and bench Orchard for a bit.
- Bowe.... Goodbye!
- Mack is struggling. He is not healed yet.
- The last JFF play was only possible because they got the linecall wrong. Lets make those adjustments.

Yup. Mack had a not-so-great day.
He was outright stood up on that play, and he had a few other bad plays in there that cost us, too.

I remember one play that Crowell got tackled for a loss where Mack got knocked over backwards, like a Weeble. I thought I was watching Greg Racoczy again. [Warning: Obscure 80's Browns Reference]

I know if I don't take the period seriously, there is hell to pay.

Oh, boy. You went there

Edit: "you" as in dc

THANK YOU!!!

I thought I was going insane seeing people write that we needed to keep our foot on the gas...right now, they happy to make it to the top of the hill so they can coast as long as possible delaying the inevitable catastrophic engine explosion.

I'm wondering if he just doesn't have his leg strength back? Center is all about leverage as you're generally lower and smaller than the guy across from you and if you don't have a strong base you're done...

To me that's the obvious problem. It's not like the guy forgot how to play C. I look for him to get progressively better as the season goes along.

I'm sure you're right.

He'll finally get back to playing at a pro-bowl level just in time to opt out of his deal. <sigh>

His injury was just an ACL, right?

There's no leg strength issue there, just lateral stability issues. If anything, he probably just doesn't fully trust it, yet.

No. He broke his leg.

Remember when we worried that Mack might opt out of his contract? If his play doesn't improve, we might be upset if he doesn't.

Ahh, ok. Then yeah, I could definitely see both strength and trust issues being prevalent.

For what it's worth...

I recorded the 2nd half yesterday, and today reviewed it looking specifically at Mack. For the most part he handled himself well. There were a couple plays where he appeared to be blown up by Woods, who is BIG. The first he appeared to bowl Mack over and tackled the runner for a 4 yd loss. He got Mack moving backwards. Mack went to plant his right foot and reset his base, but his foot tangled with Manziel's foot and they both went down. It looked worse than it was. The second time Woods appeared to blow Mack off the line, Crow ran through the created hole for a 15 yd gain. Which raises the question did Woods blow Mack up or did Mack outfox Woods to open the hole?

I know I had targeted him a lot last game. I wasn't paying much attention, but it's nice to hear he had a better debut against a lesser front.

I'll be watching the Jets defense against Colt's offense tonight. Maybe it's just the Jets have officially in reality as they do "on paper" - a lights out defense from front to back and all around. I recall Mack having a rough first back game with them. Very rough...

the play him and johnny trip over each other.















hope you dont mind vers but i thought i would put up a dif view just to see what people think.

Don't mind it at all. You're educating us. That's a good thing.

A few comments:

--I disagree w/Whit being so bad. He was there most of the day. Did any of you watch Denver the other night? Ward completely whiffed on an open tackle early in the game and had no clue in pass defense. Whit actually had a pretty good game.

--Someone mentioned Hughes looking good. I agree. I didn't like the pick when Heckert chose him, but Hughes has turned out to be a good player. I was wrong.

--I think the same guy [was it Platform?} say that Orchard did bad. I agree again. I forgot to mention him. People rip on Mingo, but no one else saw how weak Orchard is at the point of attack?

--Mack is taking a ton of grief, but he actually had a very good game overall. Yep, there was that one play that play just highlighted. The other play was pure genius. Mack allowed the guy to shoot the gap and just steered him in that direction because he knew where the run was designed to go. Remember guys like Big Money and Big Baby? They would choose a gap and opponents would just steer them that way. It cost us big time. It cost the Titans on that play because Crow had a nice run. I saw Mack driving guys backwards on other plays. Don't let a couple of plays deceive you.

--A few guys brought up the playcalling. Yeah, it was pathetic in the second half. Way too conservative. If it weren't for Johnny bailing them out on another conservative call where the Titans got pressure and Benji running free........we would have been in big trouble. That play stymied Tennessee's momentum.

--To the guy who went to the game: Pretty good observations for the most part and you are right about the crowd. They were into it. I was impressed. Hope you had a good time. The opener is always fun. I went to most of them. Trouble is I can't really remember winning those games.

Respect the period.
FEAR the period.

Maybe... but I'm still thinking it's rust from the soft TC. I guess we'll know in the next few weeks. Hard for me to believe he could fall off so much after just one offseason.

I remember that play, they showed a sideline view replay and it was pretty clear that Mack got blown up, straight back into the backfield right on the snap.. Not a good look but just one play.

Especially at 30.. at 35 or 36? Yea, there might be a significant drop off in one off-season, that's kind of how it works... but at 30?

Longwinded.

Good
-Travis Benjamin. So damn fast. Really happy for him.
-Defensive line
-Johnny Manziel's game sealing throw
-I also loved his second touchdown drive. It's going overlooked, because it ended with a Crowell rushing TD, but the drive featured several nice throws and debunks this new myth about Johnny only being able to throw deep passes (no)
-Crowell
-Mariota's mental toughness. I thought he really hung in there. The Browns really got after him. To string together the two drives at the end of the game was impressive.

Bad
-We all want to see Manziel not get stripped from behind. It happens to the best of them. Eli Manning has two rings and he got stripped and fumbled the ball in a key moment Sunday. Even then there are time where he's gotta make a decision when he's up in the pocket. I said it before, but just chuck the thing at the feet of an eligible receiver. He will learn. If that's our biggest worry with him at this point, we're ok
-Rush defense on the edge. I hate being run on like we have been.
-The refs calling delay of game after the fact? I stream the audio from Donovan and Dieken during games and on that play where we got the turnover they let the play run and then called delay of game. I did not hear a whistle on the audio from the stream, and there was no flag on the field. Yes it was a legitimate delay of game, but man would we be complainng about this if we had gone on to lose that game.

Ugly
-From our end their isn't a whole lot of ugly other than some of our linebackers and Whitner taking awful paths to runs on the outside.
-Not a fan of painfully obvious run-run-pass offense we ran in the middle of the game
-Ken Whisenhunt as an NFL head coach
-People who think Dick Lebeau walks on water

Nice post, Sperg.

You have been rocking it and thanks for sticking to the intent of the thread.

ha, thanks. I skimmed through the game a second time on my dvr.

The good
Winning a home opener!
Travis Benjamin - to think so many people wanted him gone.
d-Line

The bad
The delay of game call. I was at the game and no one knew what the heck happened. It was most certainly a delay, however no flags or whistles and the ball is given back to TN. I had to text my brother to figure out what happened. That is the kind of thing that gets bottles chucked onto the field, lol.
Manziel fumbles - that can be fixed I think.

The ugly
Predictable play calling

I find that is the best thing to do. It takes the emotion and the hype out of it since you already know what the outcome is.

After watching the game a second time. The guy that I isolated on was Mingo.

He can not get off a block. He gets pancaked on run plays and stood up at the LOS on pass rushing.

He plays with zero power and no leverage. He takes bad angles in tracking.

Watch the scramble by Mariota to his left. Mingo takes a poor angle Mariota goes right him.

For a guy drafted to rush the passer the Browns are getting no return on investment.

He may be able to zone cover underneath but that is not what he drafted to do.

Most likely this his last year with the Browns.

Not really sure how Mingo stays and Sheard goes.

The outside backers are not getting it done.

The one that flashed last year before getting hurt was Armonty Bryant. Kruger is ok but nothing special.

Pass rusher goes on the list in next years draft.

I've always held the opinion that Mingo wasn't bad, that he just did different things than people expected. I always thought he would continue to develop and become a more well-rounded player. After two games he looks the same. Mingo is a useful player to have on the team (so is Johnson Bademosi). As of right now I wish he could do more. Sixth overall picks, that are outside linebackers, need to contribute more than being good in coverage.

Thanks for the post ,, Maybe everyone should just take one player this season and isolate on him .. I plan on making a study of Shelton the season ..

Isolate on Orchard. Pathetic.

How many snaps did he play in the game?

Too many. LOL

I'll be honest, I didn't see one Nate sighting. With that said,supposedly Mingo has six tackles and I don't recall a single one of them either lol.

Guessing my eye sight is proofing the older I'm getting lol...

Just finally got to watch the game last night after getting back from vacation. Wanted to add some thoughts I hadn't seen mentioned yet.

I saw Orchard in for three plays in the 4th quarter. I didn't watch for him in the first quarter but he didn't play a snap in the 2nd or 3rd quarter. On the first play I saw he got double-teamed on an outside run to his side by the TE and the LT (or maybe it was two TEs?) and Craig Robertson ran right into his back rather than go to the edge. He's been doing that since preseason. I think it must be their run d scheme trying to get TFLs because I remember a play like that during preseason where Orchard set the edge well and Robertson ran right in behind him for a TFL. It doesn't work when the edge guy gets doubled, though. There was another play in that preseason game (pretty sure it was Washington) where Robertson did the same thing he did on Sunday where he just ran into the defender taking an angle that wasn't going to get him to the back.

The other two plays were passing plays. Neither play did he look really like an explosive rusher. The first one, the RB helped the LT on blocking him. The second one he got a really good punch in on the LT that knocked him back, but he didn't threaten the QB.

But Barkevious Mingo was absolutely HORRIBLE on Sunday. Amazingly bad. He was the worst player on our defense. What happened to the guy who got a sack on his first NFL snap?! He didn't get any pressure, he lost the TE on that play where he got wide open and Mariota just flinged the ball in his general direction, he took a horrible angle on Mariota on a scramble that allowed a pretty good chunk run on a scramble, was unsurprisingly not a factor in the run game. I'm really disappointed. I thought he would play well this year now that he's actually healthy, but he just isn't doing anything well.

John Hughes played great, as poorly as he played week 1. Run and pass he made an impact for himself and his teammates.

Armonty looked really good rushing the passer but was hit and miss vs. the run. Sometimes he anchored that edge well, but he also had a number of times where he took it too far upfield and the LBs were unable to cut into that spot he vacated in time. Kind of the opposite problem of the other OLBs who just let the RB run right around them. On that big run by McCluster, Armonty went way upfield and Whitner actually went outside of him. Without knowing who did the wrong thing there (my guess is Armonty but I really don't know) if either one of those guys takes their path inside, that play is a loss.

Shelton was inconsistent... he's drawing double teams most plays but those double teams are often driving him yards out of the hole in the run game.

Starks made a few nice plays.

Still waiting for Dansby to show something like last year... wonder if he's still fighting that injury or if he's just bummed about how last season finished and hasn't mentally rebounded. Seems like he's been really wanting the recognition for being a good player and was oping last year he'd finally get that Pro Bowl nod... didn't happen and he seemed really upset when that injury occurred. Just my speculation, though.

Man, Joe Haden was great.

Bitonio, I hope he gets it together. He set the bar really high for himself last year and he's not meeting it. He was probably our worst player on O. Mack got blown up a couple times, for sure, but Bitonio was consistently underperforming. i hope he figures out and can fix what's been going on.

Sounds like a silly thing to say, but I wish we could find a way to get more offensive plays. Hawkins looked good when he touched the ball, and we barely involved Hartline and Barnidge. Of course, I'm not going to turn down short drives if they include 50 - 60 yards bombs for TDs.

One interesting thing I heard on Cleveland Browns Daily radio show yesterday... there have been 6 plays of 50+ yards in the NFL so far (I don't think there was one last night) and three of them have been Manziel to Benjamin. Nice.

He played a whopping 13 snaps in the game.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

I was surprised he was in for that many. also surprised Mingo was in for only 22 on defense. Seemed like more.

It looks like Armonty Bryant is the outside linebacker opposite Kruger. Orchard and Mingo are sub package players only at this point.

yeah, Armonty was in there a lot... I think that's where he needs to be and am glad they are finally coming around to that realization. Let him get experience there.

Yep I agree. And still flexible enough to move back inside. Armonty doesn't get talked about as much as I think he should. He's a fluent pass rusher.

I remember you suggesting this move awhile back. Nice observation.

Thanks for your take Steve, much appreciated.

Man, if Bitonio has a sophomore slump this season, what's left of Farmer's drafts? I hope it's just a young player struggling with the new OL scheme/picking up the new offense.

The Orchard pick was the worst for me last draft. He's not athletic enough to be a 3-4 WOLB pass rusher and not stout enough to be a SOLB. Waste of a pick. Probably picked because of his stats, like Jarvis Jones was. Sometimes I wonder if those GM even bother to watch tape on the prospects, because if they did, I can't envision anyone seeing a 1st/2nd rd player.

As for Shelton, wasn't a fan, because of bad value, but he's good enough to become a decent rotational DL in the NFL at least. Still a bad pick in my opinion. The best NT I saw on tape from last year's draft class is on the Bears PS btw, so anyone can pick him up, Terry Williams. Wouldn't mind bringing back Kitchen to solidify the run D.

Hughes and Armonty had very good games, yes. I excuse Dansby, he's playing through a foot injury and is toughing it out. He played every snap through two weeks, he's the QB of the D with the headset and all. Would be very tough to replace him. Neither Kirksey nor Robertson are every down LB. The depth at ILB is really bad. If Dansby can't play, it will be a catastrophe, so I take him even at 75%

.. " Shelton was inconsistent... he's drawing double teams most plays but those double teams are often driving him yards out of the hole in the run game. "

Thank you very much !

Didn't realize that he played that many. All I noticed is that he was engulfed by the lineman on numerous plays. The first time I noticed was on a play where a guy got totally swallowed and the RB got outside. I had to rewind it and then I had to look up his number to identify the guy. It was Orchard. I watched him after that and he was UGLY!

steve........I was disappointed in Mingo's performance, too. He made some decent plays, but he is too weak in the upper body.

I disagree w/you about Robertson. I think he is playing very, very well.

Bitonio makes some good plays and some bad plays. He's still pretty good.

Well guys.........we don't agree on everything, but at least it's a pretty good conversation.

Thanks.

I don't know if Robertson was taking bad angles or if the defensive scheme assumes a win for the contain. When the edge is set that almost always results in a TFL. I asked Matt Wilhelm about it today and he said he's not sure either. So it's hard to say if he is right on those played without hearing it straight from the coaches mouth.

I believe it was 14 reps...I didn't like what I saw from Orchard either. But its not a panic mode.

Quite frankly regarding Mingo...we need to attack with him more. He still can control the edge with penetration. Get him out in 90 Tech and have him explode in there. Not too deep but with speed The OT is in Run block mode not Pass block if he does it opens up the B Gap for an ILB to fill immediately and take on the RB at the LOS! Read and React with Mingo letting the OT get his hands on him is just a bad decision. Armonty Bryant now he fills their OLB needs I think he will end up the starting OLB in this Defense...actually I would love to see them bring Mingo inside and have him explode more and be able to go side line to sideline and when we blitz him??? man o man...that could be his future here. His coverage on TEs would be good and blitz good, with Shelton eating up blockers.
Sorry not a good bad ugly just clicked on the thread and it took me to the Mingo, Orchard convo and I jumped in.