QB with one of our two first rounders. Period.

I'm tired of seeing wide open WRs for no reason.

Nope fans want OLine. Let's trade down and get a bunch of Oline...that'll work. LOL

Bye Week + RGIII + Bengals = WIN #1

How much $$ you willing to put on that?

First, I'm not sold on the ability to evaluate any talent let alone a good QB where there are only so so prospects.

Second, we'll get him killed week one if this line isn't addressed. Alvin Bailey, I needn't say anymore...

They're open because the entire DL is on top of our QB

Until Crowell learns to pick up the blitz from the QB's blindside, it won't matter who's at QB. Its a frigging jailbreak every time oppo defenses try it.

If there was a QB coming out that I thought would merit the pick, I'd be fine with that. However, none of the prospects this year have shown that to me.

If they reach for a QB in this draft, They'll be drafting another one next year.

Go with the best player available.

Boddy-Calhoun was a bright spot, our defence in general played pretty well today - although Eli was kept pretty clean , hardly any pass rush - but when the Giants really needed to, they took it down the field.
Haden did a good job overall I thought, covering a really quick receiver.

On offence, McCown wasted many opportunities with his inaccuracy. A little off on many throws, his 322 yards passing is a mirage, really. And I hate watching him in the pocket, he doesn't seem to buy extra time with subtle movements of his feet.
Hue kept the running game going until he had to air it out. what a slow, plodding offence to watch though, excruciating.
I expect to see RG3 in two weeks, nothing left to lose. Even Hogan would be better at this juncture.
The fumble return for the TD was so demoralizing, as was their final TD drive.
I will say we showed some fight today, we didn't quit. I don't think we will go winless, I bet we beat San Diego and maybe even Cincinnati.
And Erving sucks, as does blitz pickups too often.

We don't 'want' O-line-we NEED O-LINE. I've never seen smaller pockets in my life, or running lanes. Absolutely no hole to run through at all.

OJ was in the league two whole years before anyone noticed him because he didn't have a line to block for him. Derek Anderson had the season he did that first year cause we had an awesome line.

Had practically the same line the next year so I don't know what happened to him (might've been the concussion, and Edwards getting stitches in his foot) but it all starts up front.

We were supposed to have RGIII at QB this year. No reason to think this year could've gone differently if he were on the field all year.

Contenders? No, but at least something that was more hopeful of the light that could be at the end of the tunnel.

No you needn't. It's time we built something like the Redskins Hogs of the early 80's.

This team has VERY little talent. Draft talent IF that is even possible. Spend some money in FA. The question is this: Can this FO identify and bring talent to the team? If not, it won't matter how many draft picks or how much money they have to spend. This team would have trouble beating a decent college team. That is a fact.

--Haden was getting burned off the line every play by Beckham. Don't know why they didn't go to him more often. I think Haden has had an underrated season, but today was a very poor showing. I think his confidence is shot. It would be a reward for him to leave this franchise, but a fresh start is probably best for him and the team. His technique is a mess.

--Coleman scored a TD, but he doesn't seem like much to me. I think he's just a guy with a little bit of talent. Doesn't seem to try very hard. I thought he could have made a better play on the ball he tried to tip up to himself on the fourth down play. It seemed half hearted.

--Our offensive coordinator is not good. After a nice long pass to Pryor to gain some momentum, he called a screen to our fullback. Then the comedy of errors began, McCown couldn't accurately complete a screen pass and our fullback fell down while catching it 4 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Next play, false start. All momentum gone. Hey, Browns are going to Browns.

--I don't think anyone should get excited when the Browns appear to keep it close or gain momentum. It's like playing with your kid brother. You might let him hang around a little bit ... toy with him, but you'll turn it on when you need to. That's what happens with the Browns against every other team.

--Defense played solid. Played a bit inspired. But we don't really have anyone that can make a play when we need it. They tried.

--Boddy-Calhoun is a guy you continue to develop.

--My bold prediction about Pryor. The losing is getting to him. He's always yelling at someone on the sideline because well, his team sucks and no one can make a play. He's been saying all the right things, but the Browns will lowball him as negotiations begin. He'll feel disrespected and will not be here next year. The disrespect plus the losing won't override his desire to play for Hue.

--Wherever he ends up, someone should teach him to run in the correct direction.

--Ditto for Duke Johnson. I would take a dozen Duke Johnsons though. Guy is tough and has heart and plays that way.

--This coaching staff has been a crushing disappointment. The announcers were laughing at Hue for starting every game with that silly formation. The announcers, the guys that are supposed to be objective, couldn't contain themselves.

*If players on losing teams ever deserved a game ball, Boddy-Calhoun does.

*Good game for Pryor. He's legit. Coleman flashed a little bit. All our receivers need to stop giving up yards after the catch, to try to get more. Trust me guys, you're fast, but not that fast.

*Speaking of receivers, what's the word on Josh Gordon?

*Speaking of receivers, Beckham is good.

* Saw lots of two TE offense today. Devalve may or may not be good. Telfer doesn't really impress me. Barnidge has regressed. We need a TE.

*Duke Johnson looks more like a feature back than Crowell to me. At least he can pass protect. I saw him flip a pass rush DL running free towards McCown. He also doesn't tackle himself like Crowell, plus he's a damn good receiver.

* There's more, but what's the diff?

Twelfth verse, same as the first.

I'm Henry the eight I am ; Henry the eight I am , I am

The honeymoon period with Hue Jackson is over.

I think Mike Pettine would have had a better record at this point than 0-12

Hey, even Terry Robiskie had a win, in his interim period as coach.

Hue Jackson appears to be a character face to me.

Hue Jackson appears way too happy for me, and it ticks me off!

Maybe Hue Jackson could stay on in a coordinator role in 2017????????????????

Halfway through todays game, I was contemplating, " is it entirely unprecedented for a team to suspend the head coach for the final 4 games of a season, going with the in house assistant, in the hopes of avoiding a winless year?????????????

So it's hue's fault?

Not the obvious lack of talent and all the young players, but the coach, is the culprit? That's what you seem to be saying.

I will say it again , I wish Hue would be a Head Coach and leave the Offense to a real OC .

SD has been under rated on this board for a long time ... our best shot is Cinci ...

SD's better than Pitt ... they'd be winning our crap ass division ...

Nobody can argue that we don't need OLine help. I mean, the amount of injuries, concussions, sacs and hits tells you our OLine is junk. Granted Bitonio is out but, at the least we need a center. Maybe Reiter is the guy, he looked great. But, that is basing on a small sample size. Pasztor is not the answer....so, at the least we need to address Center and Tackle.

Back to today's game...Boddy-Calhoun had a good game.

Mike McCarthy?

This is what everyone was touting Hue as... an offensive/QB guru. Who are you going to get? Who wants to coach the Browns with the Criminal as the owner...nobody! That's the reality of this thing.

We need a lot of things.

I have to set my priorites.


First, we need a QB unless RGIII lights it up down the stretch. Even then, he is a frail person. We still need a QB. The question is where do we draft him? If someone stands out, then we probably need to take him at #1. No doubt he won't be the best player on the board, but if he can be a legit top 10 player on the board, then we need to take him.

Second priority is a pass rush. I know we need O-line help, but a pass rush helps everything on D. I really want Garrett or Allen, but if we go QB with the first pick, they won't be available. My next target would be Derrick Barnett of Tennessee. He should be around with our 2nd round pick. I'd even trade up a bit to get him. We have to pressure the QB.

I think we can address corner and O-line in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.


Then again, maybe scrap a high pick QB this year, go DL and OL in the first.


Any way you cut it, it won't all happen in the draft this year.

That's why I hope we do decide to be fairly active in the FA market. No real sense in talking that until you know who hits the market in Feb, but we can fill a few holes there.

I think we will. I think that Haslam is fairly hands off when it comes to player selection, etc, but he does have to protect his business. While winning this year might not be a priority, I think it important to start showing some results next season. I think he is going to step in and urge his team to bring in a few proven players to fill some holes and post up some wins.

As a owner, with a $billion invested, you can't keep losing thousands of season ticket holders each year. I know just in my section we lost some, and expect to see fewer familiar faces next year, and I sit in the club seats. Many of those seats are held by companies who use them for business purposes. They are going to keep them pretty much no matter what. It's just a cost of doing business. You spend money on advertising, you send money on entertainment and promotion. $3000 on a couple of seats a season is a fairly inexpensive way to host a client or give to a customer. The four seats next to me are owned by someone, though I have never met him. It's always a different froup of folks, mostly employees/friends who sit in them. They tell me he has different seats he sits in. I would imagine other locations are seeing a big exit in fans who don't use them as a business expense. That is Joe fan who is getting tired of spending money on a losing product.

Nothing that everyone has has not already said...

*Going for it on 4th down and running to get it...this was good. Disappointing to only get 3 points

*D played well and got some pressure on Eli today

*Thank goodness Eli was off early as Haden was beat early on --> OBJ was Cruz were mostly held in check for guys of their caliber

* It must be last season agains b/c someone mentioned Hue's game face..thought we'd never talk that again after Pet left

*The lack of offense in the 3rd quarter...still a bane for us

*TP trying to be a leader for the team..man we need a bunch of guys being more vocal and getting this team fired up.

*Giants tried to gift wrap a win for us and we could not take advantage

* I still like Hue as a HC and think he needs an OC...I'm surprise he wanted to do both

*I would love to get a big-n-tall TE to attack the middle of the field...I don't care that we try and run a ball control passing game but we need a middle of the field weapon

*We have to play perfect ball to win...we cannot fumble or give ints...it was that easy today

*The bye week is coming at a good time..D is OK and O-Line is not bad...I think 1 win after the bye can really get everyone to relax

*We need to groom a real punt returner and let them do the job...

*Too many untimely false starts and using timeouts for delay of games...just mental errors

*Grecko going out and Bailey stepping in...the MASH unit continues for this team on injuries

*Red zone offense execution and play calling could be improved

*Somebody in the chat mentioned shortening the playbook and simplifying the O...maybe?

*Hoyer takes a lot of shots when he is throwing...how he can stay in there is beyond me - you can't question his toughness...makes me wonder if his arm is off and impacting his accuracy?

Well, be interesting to see if the FO comes out and says anything and see how RGIII preps...be interesting to see if he dials in on TP as a #1....

I think we get a win or 2...I think we should have had 4 wins this year....water under the bridge but that is how I see it

another suckfest.

I wouldn't totally blame Hue. He was built up to be a better developer of players than he may really be. Look at the raw materials this FO left for him to build into a team. I'd just like them all to admit it. They didn't actually have the talent they believed they had and THAT leaves me skeptical of the future.

Hue needs to decide if he wants to manage a team or the offense. I don't think he can do both effectively.

They competed. Thats all i ask.

Boddy-Calhoun and Kirksey had pretty good games on defense.

Eli had great accuracy today and it made our secondary look suspect.

I can't wait for the day where a Browns QB will be accurate and have an arm to make great plays.

The effort level was mostly after the game was over and McCown was, once again, underthrowing him by half a mile.

Coleman was crushing his guy all day, but McCown is easily the worst QB on our roster and could not get him the ball most of the time.

It's absolutely frustrating to see Pryor and Coleman and others wide open and our stupid QB's miss them all the time. It's sickening.

Hue emotional

Sure about that? See Manziel, Johnny.

I am agreed with this.

Some players quit months ago.


This was said well over a year ago.

Is it April yet?

One thing that really baffles me..

Duke Johnson continuing to be our punt returner... This should be Coleman's job. period.

Also, on the Odell score where he scored on Haden. Was Collins jogging? Looked to me like he said screw that, and let up.

the fact that Duke continues to be the PR ... and STINKS at it, is baffling.

And I'm tired of Loius at KR too ... too slow and not very smart

Yep.

Although we didn't win, I think my favorite play of the game was going for it on 4th down and running to pick it up. We actually ran the ball like we're supposed to do. We need to primarily be a running team, this is what I want to see. We are WAY WAY too pass happy at times and it makes me sick...

We totally lack an identity on offense and a main part of that is due to the offensive line. With no offensive line you can't be anything. In next year's draft I think the first couple selections should be the easiest in the history of the NFL position wise.

1 = Quarterback Mitch Trubisky, NC.
18= Center Pat Elflein, OSU or Cam Robinson OT, Alabama
33 = Best offensive line available
45 = Gareon Conley, CB, OSU

since 1999 this is what this team as evolved into.
and people still shell out hard earned money to see a minor league team
at major league prices
it's baffling.

I disagree Peen. Anecdotal evidence, but I'm aware of 5 companies that have dropped their club seats over the past 2 years. They are investing their entrainment expenditures in the Cavs and now the Indians.

Quite frankly, the companies can't/couldn't entice their customers or potential customers to go to a Browns game. The prospect of free food and booze isn't a selling point anymore. The proof is in the pudding, just look at the club section when the camera pans the stadium.

Hue should have stayed an offensive coordinator with Cincy. He had a great gig with the Bengals. He just overestimated is ability to turn a team like this around, but then again who is that guy?

Post game thoughts...

- Kirksey gave it his all today. Outstanding effort, feel bad for the guy

- 3 or 4 weeks in a row now, Pryor cannot contain his frustration on the sideline. Unless the Browns franchise him or sign him to a huge contract before FA hits, he's bolting.

- Jamie Collins called it a year after about 2 weeks with this team. He's just playing out the year to move on.

- The ridiculous line shifts are just silly.

- Punt returns; my goodness gracious. It's bush league.

- Haden is playing with the hopes of getting moved in the offseason.

- McCown is a nice guy and great teammate, it ends there.

- Obviously, RG III starts after the bye (assuming he's cleared), hopefully, that experiment ends after this season as well.

- Rashard Higgins showed effort after catching the ball. Get him involved more.

- Who the hell is Danny Vitale and why is he catching passes?

- It was noted, Hue Jackson was 25 minutes to the postgame presser after meeting with the brass. Tony Grossi said not to read too much in to this at all. If anyone else on here listens to the A to Z podcast (w/ Andre Knott and Zac Jackson - and highly recommended, by the way) they'll understand this reference: it's December in Berea.

Lots of empty orange seats and blue today. Sad state of affairs.

You know, it is almost criminal to keep piling on Hue like he is some miracle worker! Our talent was thin from the beginning. But injuries and rookies are just an impediment. That and the FO basically going the entire youth route just makes this season extra hard.

Look at how ATL Falcons just clowned the Browns. Thanking Clev for giving them T.Gabriel. Who made the decision to let him go and keep every rookie we drafted?? Think about that, no other team has EVER kept that many rookies. And then you still send Hue out to deal with the press when the losing mounts.

Please, let Sashi and Haslam answer some questions. Hell, Sashi sounded like a first year GM with his "not worried about winning" comment. This is going to be a long losing season with the coaches taking the brunt of the hits while the FO sits back and acts like they gave him alot to work with.

Exactly. No doubt has Hue made some weird decisions here and there but its only natural to expect that during the term of someone in a head coaching role. I'm a big believer of learning through experience and mistakes. You're not going to be perfect, and when you mess up or do something wrong, learn the right way to do it. A mentor or someone who's been there a long time can make a difference. Do we have anyone experienced on our staff? I know most people would say, "Hey, Hue Jackson has enough experience or he's old enough." I mean someone as a knowledgable consultant who's been there and done it before just to help out and get their input. Hopefully we have people internal like that.

But the coach can only win with the talent level you give him on the field. I don't think Paul Brown would have a winning record with this team. Actually he would probably refuse to coach them. If anything, the FRONT OFFICE need to be the ones apologizing to Hue Jackson for not putting the appropriate NFL caliber talent on the field required to win games. They have him doing these press conferences and answering these questions when they're not getting their job done. I for one don't think its fair at all, those are my feelings. They should be the ones answering the talent level questions and not hiding or whatever they're up to.

When they do hold press conferences and the front office people answer questions, it sounds good, but it also sounds sugar coated. I would love to hear everyone talk behind closed doors. If Hue Jackson has effective told them he's doing the best he can with the talent on the field, probably....

For reference to your comment.

Tasty,
There is NO WAY Belicheck would win with our talent. I challenge ANYONE ON THIS BOARD to look at the roster on the browns, then sort it by years. If you do that, you will see that you do not get to players with 5 years or more in the league until almost 80% through the list. As a matter of fact, we only have 11 players with 5+ years in the league. 29 players with <= 2 years. You cannot win with a roster like that

Tell ya what, at most of our positions, you only have 1 or 2 players with considerable experience at each position group. That is crazy. Think about it, you would need the players with the most experience to teach the younger ones about being a professional. And then have the coaches TEACHING them about the pro football level nuances of their positions.

This is like having a huge project at work and using alot of fresh out of college personnel as your workers to get the project complete. NO WAY!

And your right, the FO needs to apologize to Hue and his staff for putting them in this screwed up situation and letting BBQ in front of the fans. Sashi atleast told everyone their thought process ( just the FO) about winning, then just forgot to tell Hue and the fans about how they felt!

not so much for me.

Taylor has 303 yards rec. this year...75 of those came in one game.

let's see he has 17 recp. on 23 targets this year.

that being stated, I do like his speed.

I am not a Crowell fan. He's average at best. He does that same little dance stutter step before hitting the line like we've seen from so many of our RB's before. Maybe with an o-line? But I think that's still a big maybe.

There is no talent worth a 1st round pick in the upcoming draft currently.

Toast. His-tor-y. Lucky to get a 6th rounder for him. Or, we will cut him, he will have his life straightened out, gets picked up by another team and ends up a Super Bowl MVP.

[quote=
1 = Quarterback Mitch Trubisky, NC.
18= Center Pat Elflein, OSU or Cam Robinson OT, Alabama
33 = Best offensive line available
45 = Gareon Conley, CB, OSU
[/quote]

No way.

We need a true game changer at 1/1. Garrett or Allen (prefer Garrett).

With our second pick go top Safety (preferably FS) or Trubisky if available. Trubisky is my favorite QB in this draft, but not at 1/1. I may trade one of our 2nd rounders to move up from the Eagles pick to get him, though.

Then go oline/CB in round 2. If we don't end up with Garrett/Allen at 1/1 it'll be a big mistake IMO. MAYBE a trade down that includes like 3 first round picks, but even then I'm iffy. Need game changers if you want to be great (see Khalil Mack or Von Miller).

They should be thanking us for Julio Jones, too.

that's incredible. Empty seats and blue.

Not so sure about that, but even if true, I still see Haslam as fairly hands off, at least during the season.

Cleveland Browns Postgame Scribbles: Possible return of RG3, O-line mess -- Terry Pluto
link

CLEVELAND, ONovember 28, 2016 at 6:19 AMhio -- Scribbles in my Cleveland Browns notebook after their 27-13 loss to the New York Giants on Sunday at FirstEnergy Stadium:

1. The Browns now have two weeks off thanks to the bye week. They have four games left. Or as coach Hue Jackson said, "four opportunities to win a game ... four opportunities to lose." But the final four games have to be more than avoiding an 0-16 season.

2. That's why we'll probably see Robert Griffin III at some point. For weeks, the quarterback has been working to come back from the broken bone in his shoulder. That happened in the Browns 29-10 opening game loss. That was in Philadelphia on September 11, and it feels as if it that happened seven years ago.

3. Cody Kessler has had two concussions in a month. It's hard to know when the rookie quarterback will be cleared to play. It also makes no sense to rush him back because of the obvious physical dangers. So it will be back to Griffin, where the quarterback quest began this season.

4. McCown was 1-10 as a starter with Tampa Bay in 2014. In 2015-16, he's now 1-10 as a starter with the Browns. This season, he is 0-3 as a starter. He has thrown six TD passes, six interceptions and been sacked 19 times. He also has lost four fumbles. He has been taking a physical beating, and it's hard to watch.

5. Starting right guard John Greco left the game in the third quarter. He was on crutches when departing from the stadium. The Browns are calling his injury a "strained" foot for now, with more medical details coming later. Greco rarely misses a snap, so the injury is probably significant.

6. If Greco is out, that means the Browns will be without their starting guards. Their other starting guard, Joel Bitonio, is out for the season because of foot surgery. He played five games.

7. That means rookie Spencer Drango will continue to start at one guard spot. He replaced Bitonio. Veteran Alvin Bailey replaced Greco, but it's hard to imagine Bailey being in the Browns future.

8. Another guard possibility is Jonathan Cooper, the No. 7 pick in the 2013 draft. He broke his leg in his rookie season with Arizona. He later was traded to New England, then was cut. He never has done much. The Browns did claim him on waivers.

9. Former Brown Taylor Gabriel caught TD passes of 35 and 25 yards for the Atlanta Falcons as they beat the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday. The Falcons cut Gabriel because they want to look at some younger receivers. Gabriel has 21 catches, including four TDs this season.

10. The Browns did give rookie Rashard Higgins some playing time and he caught two passes for 34 yards. I'd like to see more of him.

11. Cody Parkey's opening kickoff went out of bounds. That was bad. The weather was very nice. So Parkey made a poor play. But the officials were worse. They spotted the ball on the 30-yard line. Well guys ... it's supposed to be on the 40-yard line when the ball is kicked out of bounds. They fixed it, but how do you mess up that call on the first play of the game?

12. The silliest part of the game was Browns punter Britton Colquitt talking trash to Odell Beckham Jr. It happened after Beckham thought he had run back a punt for a touchdown, but it was negated by a clipping penalty. Why the punter would be yelling at Beckham celebrating in the end zone ... well, beats me. Certainly the Browns special teams had nothing to brag about on that play.

13. When Isaiah Crowell fumbled in the second quarter, it was his first fumble since 2014. It came at a bad place on the field. New York recovered on the Cleveland 25-yard-line, then scored a touchdown two plays later.

14. The Browns tried to get tricky with Duke Johnson throwing a long pass to Terrelle Pryor. Pryor was open but Johnson fired the ball about 10 yards over his head. The running back did throw the ball about 50 yards in the air. Interesting idea, just didn't work.

15. The Browns were 7-4 at one point since the first 11 games of 2014, since they have lost 30-of-33.

ugh, lost 30 of 33

j/c:

The game was frustrating. Reading some of these comments was even more frustrating. I guess I'll start there.

--Before the season, some of us tried to warn people about how much of an effect Hue could have w/this offense. As usual, we were ridiculed. Now, many of those same people are saying that Hue is a disappointment as a coach, or that he should bring in an OC, or that he's in over his head. None of that is true. An OC will not help. The offensive problems are due to lack of talent, just as some of us tried to tell you guys BEFORE the damn season.

About the game:

--The biggest thing I notice almost every week is how much slower the Browns are than their opponents. Our team speed is horrible and it's hard to win in a league where speed is a priority.

--I am sick of Pryor complaining every game. He was a Diva at Ohio State and caused the university much hardship. Play the game. Shut your mouth.

--Losing Greco hurt.

--Boddy Calhoun made some decent plays.

--Kirksey is the one guy who flashes w/speed. Once a blocker reaches him, he's toast...........but he is very good when running downhill. He gets there in a hurry and makes plays.

--Collins did not look good yesterday.

--The difference in speed between OBJ and Haden was alarming.

--Why was our punter trash-talking? I think OBJ even said: "you're a punter!" LOL

--It was nice to not have Cody in there. We were able to use more of the field and open up the playbook. The Giants have a legit D. They invested heavily in free agency and really upgraded their secondary during the off-season. Their D-line has always had talent.

--I think that Crow is fine as the featured RB and that Duke is fine as the specialist. Nothing wrong at all w/how the Browns are dividing their snaps.

--Higgens looks way better than Louis--or is it Lewis--to me?

--Ogbah is not a game-changer, but he should be a decent player for quite some time.

--I was so annoyed by hearing the chant of "Let's Go, Gi-ants!" over and over and over again.

--Wonder how Haslam is liking the part of the plan they didn't account for............dwindling attendance from Brown's fans?

I'm growing wary of Pryor's complaining as well. It's one thing to be passionate, but that's a bad look IMO

I'm actually happy the seats are filled with fans of the opposing team.

the front office and coaching staff need to see that!!

4-12

I'm not going to another game this year. I'm done. I was able to give my tickets away to the last game at least. But, like a moron, I'll renew my season tickets for next year. The Steelers game was the first home game I've missed in 3 years. My 13 year old son doesn't want to go either - they are losing the young fan base which is likely the scariest for the FO.

This is one of the biggest problems with "the plan."

The game was televised in my area so I got to watch it. I did see a team that has heart and is trying to win. I saw a team that is lacking at the qb position, is very young and makes too many mistakes. I saw a team that needs more talent and playmakers. This is why I feel it is time for us to draft BPA and stop the trading down. We have enough picks and now we need to get playmakers and top talent on this team. Let's hope our FO is up to the task.

j/c:


https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/rg3s-g...-034457759.html

Ingrates ... *LOL* ...

The last 2 seasons my entertainment dollars have been spent going to Cavs games. I've always tried to catch a Browns game or two each season with my son, we've even been to training camps and preseason games. We love football. It's just not worth the time or the money to watch this poor excuse for a football team. We're not huge basketball fans, but the Cavs games are a fantastic experience, and we get to watch elite athletes perform at a high level. In other words, we don't feel cheated. I do miss your tailgates.

rg3 had money stolen which sucks. our franchise is so depressing

Hes stolen enough from us and the redskins ... ...

On a team this terrible, with this little talent, I'm all in favor of anyone that still shows passion for being out there and giving 100%.

That passion strikes both ways. He was not well liked on the OSU football teams.

https://twitter.com/SgtFootball/status/802957867968040961

Wow

I mentioned this play earlier in the thread. glad i wasnt the only one to notice. Odell should have been eating dirt.

WOW .... thats INEXCUSIBLE ... WOW ... my jaw dropped ...

Now we have another piece to the puzzle as to why Billicheck let him go ..

WOW ...

I don't know why we are surprised. He was a malcontent, not giving his all as a PATRIOT. One of, if not THE, best teams in the AFC.

I still think we attempt to pay him his big bucks.

not what i like to see. do i blame him for being upset to be in cleveland? not one bit. guess it's seeped into his play as well

j/c...

Collins looks disinterested out there. Wonder if we have a shot to retain him?

McCown looked like anything but a 14 year Vet...yeah he can read D's better but he makes the pre-snap read and then follows that read throughout the play.

Early on we send Duke or Crowell out for a swing pass the entire time McCown is staring at the RB...1, 2, 3 lets it go our RB get creamed.

I like Crowell I think he has a lot of heart and runs hard.

Pryor is good but I hope he doesn't become a premodonna.

He is coming down on the OL hard as if its all their fault...yes there is much fault to go around including the OL but we just don't get rid of the ball within 3 seconds.

And I see guys open.

Kirksey is getting better with each game. He had several TFL. One of the few bright spots of the season.

Our D played much better...man if we had a QB like half the NFL we would be winning a lot of these games.

We fake a run right and then throw a screen pass to the FB#40...why??? we got all these guys who can run with the ball...why the FB...who btw dropped the pass.

I would like to see DeValv as our HB and have him out there from the backfield on that screen!

Crowells first fumble of the season...we always have firsts announced at our games....NY GIANT first catch of the season for Harris...oh and first TD Catch of the season.

Beckham is amazing...his punt return called back but his simple cross route turn on the burners and score. Outside of that play Haden played a darn good game.

Erving did not have a bad game for once. Bailey sucks at pass blocking when he came in for Greco...any news on him?

Booughty UDFA rookie - I like this kid he might be another bright spot of the season.

Saw a cut away to the Haslam booth...not a happy camper...count to 10 Jimmy don't you dare fire anyone.

So a presser and Mary Kay told Horton - word is out you will be the scapegoat what do you have to say...HUH! The D seems to be playing better with each game.

Announcers had no clue about the Browns just a crash course before the game...all their studying seemed to be on the Giants.

Hogan comes in for the Read Option - Giants ready for him as they keyed him but the handoff was up the middle to Crowell who had an 8 yard run. Then he comes out.

Announcers were saying he was in cause McCown got hurt as he did rub his left hand...but they had no clue we do the Read option thing with Hogan.

Ogbah had dropped in coverage and his body was going to the right side of the field but the throw was left...he was able to stop his momentum to just stretch his arms out to the left side and hit the ball. The announcers spent a good minute telling us how bad his hands are cause he is a DL...they didn't even see the play...smh.

Well I've had it with McCown...just terrible nothing screams out 14 year vet in his play...except that he chokes when the game is on the line.

Later all, its what I saw out there.

Pat McManamon ESPN Staff Writer

Sunday marked the first time since 2013 a team lost by 14 points or more to an opposing team that had at least nine punts. The Giants punted nine times and beat the Browns by 14. This has happened to teams 25 times in the last 15 seasons. Stats courtesy of ESPN Stats and Information.
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in other words, the D did the job ... the O was an atrocity

It's a camera angle thing. The first angle makes it look like he could have reached his arm out and knocked OBJ outta bounds. But look at the next replay, (it's from a different angle), and you can see Collins is 5-6 yards away when OBJ is at the 5-yard line. That's when Collins pulled up.

Ddub ... once he started pursuing, he never ran hard ... EVER ... unless he's way slower than he appears on other plays ...

This isn't a last 5 yards thing for me ... its the 10 - 15 yards before that ... and one point it looked like he was almost trying to make sure he didn't cut back inside ... i had to re-watch it 4 times just to make sure .. *L* ...

Sorry bro .. your looking for excuses when there is none .. dude half assed it ...

He's fast. Well, when he wants to be.

I mentioned that he had a poor game in my first post on this thread.

This would be such a Cleveland Browns thing to do. Sign a guy to a big contract who is disinterested and just collecting checks.

I'd be very leery of being the team to sign him to the big contract. Seems like a guy looking for a payday and not much else. It could be surmised Belichik saw this too.

Not looking for excuses. The only replay I saw was the one posted in the link. During the live action I didn't even notice him.

I noticed it before it was put on twitter.

I'll reserve my final judgment of Collins til the end of the season, but not a good look.

j/c:

OBJ is crazy fast. I don't think Collins would have caught him if he'd had a jet pack strapped on. Once he's past you, an LB isn't going to catch him. Not a good look, but don't think it would have made a difference if he'd been running a 40 yard dash. Cursing and pulling up when you see that 13 behind you is a pretty natural reaction.

It's basically what I did when watching it.

I'm not trying to excuse it, but it is one play in isolation. How will he respond against the Bengals? (I guess we have a bye this week-finally)

We actually had about 6 minutes more time of possession which somewhat surprised me. The Turnovers killed us though. McCown and Hogan may have been hanging out too much recently. Josh's throwing motion has been ugly. Not only does dropping it that low open it up more to being stripped, it gives defenders more time to react.

A few young guys showed flashes on D; Nassib, Ogbah, Boddy-Calhoun, Shelton, Kirksey, and Lemonier all made some plays.

You all forget Winning is the cure all. If he does sign here its cause he wants to play football. If he is disinterested he simply will not sign here. We have been good not to make stupid contracts. We have made contracts just a tad better than others...but several players have chosen to sign elsewhere.

I do wish him signed if he will play all out. We don't have impact like that on the D...well I think Kirksey is getting there but Collins had mad skills. If he doesn't want to play/play here...then of course I don't wish him here. But I cannot ASSume that as I am not one on one with him to get a pure read. As I said it seemed that he was disinterested on some plays. Operative word is "SEEM" I cannot say for sure...if I was at practice coaching the team, I WOULD KNOW!

if i was collins i might dog some plays. going from a superbowl team to a winless team might cause a relax and hope for a better team to pick him up.

i am a browns fan. it just seems we are pretty far from being competitive. him being traded here might be a punishment from billy bob.

You guys are about 10 years too late to that party.
The younger generations of Brown's fans do not exist.
Oh,and to Turk,to Haslem a paid seat is a paid seat.To him,they are all green.

I have encouraged my 18 year old 12th grader to follow the teams he is interested in. He and his friends follow the CAVs and Indians, and are extremely apathetic about the Browns. So I agree that the Browns have lost many of the younger fans

Young Browns fans who grew up south of SR 30 are an endangered species.

I was 13 in 99.

Searching for a team to root for.

Horrible timing.

It may be much simpler than that. When Collins came here, he was a half season away from a HUGE contract in the FA/RFA. Now we're all Browns fans so we look at things from a fans perspective, and that's fine.

However, if you were looking at it from a business perspective as a player, you might wonder why you would risk your health and millions of dollars in contract money by going all out and risking a major injury on a winless team.

What is there to risk such an injury for? A playoff spot? No. Pad your personal stats for a few more millions while risking far more millions via serious injury? No.

From a fans perspective this sounds terrible, but from a players standpoint it seems very logical. So he may not really be trying to get out of Cleveland nearly as much as he wants to help secure his future contract.

Start winning and they will flock back.
Keep losing and nobody will notice.

Color me crazy but "a paid seat is a paid" to every owner right? not just the Browns.

So, you are saying that Haslam doesn't care about Brown's fans not attending games?

Seriously?

Color me crazy but "a paid seat is a paid" to every owner right? not just the Browns.


how is that not saying he does not care? lol I'm saying all owner care you silly willy

like you tell me time and time again...

reading comp. is your friend.

"a paid seat is a paid"

sorry meant to say

"a paid seat is a paid seat"....maybe that threw you off....sorry bro.

A paid seat with nobody in it means they already paid but are too disinterested to show up. To any owner that can be concerning.

lol I realize that. The only thing I am saying is that, every owner values the ticket sales. it's not just a green seat to the Browns owner. every owner values that sale. that's all i'm saying.

it's not just the empty seats, it's the empty seats COMBINED with the occupied seats of OTHER TEAM'S FANS.

The Dallas, NE, NYG, and Pitt games were like home games

Also known as desperate for anything that resembles an NFL caliber team. People will spend ALL kinds of money on that. Does it make sense? Nope.

I love it. More empty seats AND more opposing teams fans in the seats. Suck it Haslam! LOL

Not to Haslam. He got his ticket sale. He should be embarrassed beyond belief as to what this franchise has devolved into. He's laughing all the way to the bank. No real clue. No patience. Just stockpiling cash. No one to blame but the desperate fans who continue to support this pile of garbage. And so it goes. I'm very happy to not support them financially. Haslam can suck it.