With the addition of Myles Garrett, Caleb Brantley and Larry Ogunjobi the Browns DL will be much Improved maybe to the point of becoming dominate in both the run game and pressuring the QB, A DL that can pressure the Qb will help the secondary to become better also: Here is a look at our DL:

Starters: DE: Myles Garrett, DT: Danny Shelton DT: Desmond Bryant DE: Emanuel Ogbah:

Backups: DE: Carl Nassib DT: Caleb Brantley DT: Larry Ogunjobi DE: Xavior Cooper:

Others: Jamie Meder, Gabe Wright, Lawrence-Stample Nile, Tyrone Holmes, Trevon Coley:

I think you're gonna see the Backups for DE be Nassib, Orchard, and Cam Johnson (unless some UDFA shows up)

I think you'll see the DT Backups be, Brantley, Ogunjobi, Meder (with the possibility of someone taking Brantley's place/Bryant being cut or retiring)

Bryant is 31, and coming off major injury. I have a hard time seeing him on this team, especially with the attention we have paid to the DL.

Holmes was our second best pass rusher last year. He should be our first off the bench this year behind Garrett and Ogbah.

Was he? I was high on him, but I don't remember Holmes getting all that many snaps.

He fits in with Myles as a physical freak of nature. Just needs developed.

I forgot all about Holmes. We're finally going to have to make some actual tough decisions when the roster cuts come down.

3-4 the key is the LBs. 4-3 the key is the DL...we got some good guys coming in. Some I think won't be here that were on our roster last year. Nassib I'm not so sure he fits. Orchard btw I THINK will be an OLB for us not DE.
If you can get 4 rushing the passer consistently...you got a top DEFENSE in the NFL!

jmho

Meder look like a mad man at times maybe with all the help around him he will get better too. We have to have a decent D this year!

Come on Jamie YOU CAN DO IT.

There are going to be some tough cuts this year. Meader might be one of them.

I tend to agree with you on the DL .. Good problem to have !

I am hope he keeps improving, and surprising folks.

It would really suck to see Meader go. I'd find a way to keep him on the team, he's a great kid and his effort and motor are non-stop when he's in uniform. Special teams contributor too. But yeah, we'll cut a player or two that will have NO issues latching onto another team.

I don't disagree with any of that. I just don't see him being a lock.

Face it, as a team gets better, some good players are going to get cut.

Probably wouldn't count on Brantley just yet.

I might be way off base here but I see Des Bryant getting cut before Meder, only because I see Meder as the back-up 1-tech to Shelton and see the two DTs we selected as 3-Techs. So if we kept both rookies, I don't think that means Meder is out but rather we really like our rookies enough to cut Bryant who has suffered significant injuries, took a significant pay cut, and is 31. If Bryant goes back to play like he did with the Raiders and the limited flashes he had here, then maybe one of those guys goes to the practice squad. I don't see what we do with them effecting Meder. But, again, I could be way off. That's simply talking roles in a base 4-3, whereas, to Bryant's credit, he has experience in both fronts and can play 34 DE, 43DE or 43DT.

Agreed. The guy who really is gonna have to show up to make the team is Xavier Cooper. Him and Bryant. They're both 3 Technique, although Bryant is more versatile. I don't think we'll keep Bryant and Cooper on the team, even if Brantley never gets signed because of his legal situation

I forgot about Cooper, but yes, him too.

Hmmmm.........these guys haven't played one NFL game and we are going to have a "dominate" D-line. Yet, when a rookie struggles.........18 homers rush in to tell you that you can't judge a player until 3 years.

Funny how that works, isn't it?

man, you have just been a bundle of joy since the draft ended.

Swish........I think we blew some picks. But, who knows.......I could be wrong.

My biggest concern is that all of this false optimism will lead to unrealistic expectations. I have tried to caution people for years about the very same thing. In response, I get a lot of negative posts directed my way and some sarcasm that doesn't even make sense.

Here is my issue, Swish............We have all of these fans acting like we have so much talent, and then when reality sets in, they then feel the need to blame someone.

Look at last year. I kept saying that our D-talent sucked and that we had the worst secondary in the league. I talked about losing guys like Gipson, Dansby, Whit, etc from an already poor defense and replacing them w/untested guys who don't have a ton of talent. Well, the season gets here and we win one freaking game..........and people scream that Horton has to be fired. LOL.......this crap happens every damn year!!!

We already had "positive posters" ragging on Hue last year. Complaining about him calling plays, being too cute, and being a bum. Imagine what it will be like this year if the team loses a bunch of games again? And the thing is.......they probably will.

I think a lot of you misunderstand my intentions. I am dead-set against firing more coaches and FO people. I think it is best to keep expectations reasonable. Give these guys time to do their thing instead of pretending we are going to be "dominant" in certain areas and how all our picks are "good" or "great" picks.

I know what I just said is either going to fall on deaf ears or be turned around.......just as it always is. History has a way of repeating itself.

I've been guilty, in the past, of getting excited over our drafts.

I said last year I wouldn't be excited OR down. I wasn't, either.

Same this year. Get the guys on the field for a year, then we can discuss.

Good post and now I feel bad.

I promise you guys that I get why fans get excited and it's cool to think we are doing better than other teams, especially since we have lost for so long.

I just like to temper things....not to be a Debbie-Downer, but to help relax expectations because this seems to happen every year and then guys get fired.

I don't want anyone to get fired. I haven't been the biggest fan boy of any of these guys. But, they are here. There are some smart guys on board and the players absolutely love playing for Hue. Let's keep them around.

I think next year is going to be tough in regards to wins and losses. All this positive talk scares me because I think fans will need to blame someone when the losses mount.

The very LAST THING WE SHOULD DO IS FIRE HUE!!!!

I think we should just let this play out. Let's take an approach that says we are supportive of the the people in charge and give them time to do their thing, rather than say "this is a great move" or "how dare anyone question this move, etc.

I feel you but you seem to be chopping down optimism just because.

i don't *think* anybody is super excited as if we're gonna be competing for the playoffs or something.

but people are excited because it appears as if the FO is trying to address everything that was weak with the team.


our D line was trash, and at least on paper, they fixed it.
kept Collins which helped solidify our LB group
our Secondary was beyond trash, and atleast on paper, it goes from trash to below average(we still need a FS minimum).

then combined that with a greg williams hire, whose defense was ranked 9th overall (16th against the run, 10th against the pass), and it's hard not to get excited bro.

so you see what he was able to do with guys like Aaron Donald, and it's hard not to get pumped with what he can potentially do with Garrett, Shelton, and Ogbah.

so i feel you on wanting to be realistic, but don't cross the line and be a party pooper, bro lol.

also, side note: Gipson had an "eh" season, Dansby is on his third team in 4 years (back at arizona), Whitner isn't even currently on a roster, and Kruger looked old and slow with the saints.

we went 3-13 with those guys the 2015 season. so if losing those guys = 2 extra loses from 3-13 to 1-15.....well did we REALLY lose anything?

i'm not saying those guys are bums, but they weren't exactly game changers. we go from 27th defense(379.2) in 2015 with those guys to 31st defense(392.4 yards a game) in 2016 without them.

so with them, we look like trash on a boat going to a dumpsite. without them, we look like trash on a boat going to a dumpsite.

not really a huge loss there.

A few points:

--I think the FO could have done a lot better by taking Hooker at 12 and also taking at least 2-3 other DBs.

--I do not think the DL was nearly as bad as the secondary. I love the Garrett pick, but the others.....not so much.

--The Rams were 23rd in scoring defense last year.

--I wasn't trying to say those guys who got cut were great players, but they were vets and relying on all of those untested players was going to be an issue. Horton got unfairly blamed.

--Bro, I don't think we have a qb. Teams schemed against Kessler last year and took away our run. We had to be almost perfect on every play to have a chance. We would have one or two drives per game where that worked and people hang their hats on that, but you can't win games in the NFL that way.

--Also, our WRs are a real concern. We lost our best WR from a group that was not very good and didn't replace him w/quality.

--I think our secondary is going to get torched. We will be exploited by TEs and by WRs who can run seam routes. LA had that happen a lot last year and our talent in those areas is poor.

--With that said, I think we are getting better..........and you can't fix everything at once. I just think we are going to lose a ton of games this year and there is no way that Hue should get fired. And bro......if the losses mount.......just watch the blame game against Hue grow.

Reasonable, Vers. I fall victim every year. I do think our front seven is gonna be much better, and not just because of the picks. Gregg Williams is a difference maker. And maybe the OL is better and we can run. But we can win five times as many games as last year and still suck.
Agree about keeping Hue. Let him struggle, let him fail, let him grow. In 4-5 years, we'll have a great coach.

Swapping Dansby with Demario Davis or whatever that guy's name is didn't make any sense. We already had a talented leader in the locker room, why swap him with an untalented leader, lol. We really could have used Dansby, if just for one year. The Front Office really tried to sell Davis, but really, he was pretty unimpressive. His fallout with the Jets should have been a sign for us.


And Gipson was IMO the biggest loss we faced. I was a big Gipson fan and really hoped we would keep him. I mistakenly had faith in Ibraheim Campbell because I liked his play at Northwestern (which I had seen a lot of). I screwed that all up. Poyer I wasn't high on though. But I certainly thought we'd get so much more out of Campbell. Gipson had some injury issues, but was severely underrated IMO.

Donte Whitner, well, we disagree on him. And from what I've remembered, we've argued that one enough to leave it at that.


But it's hard not to get excited (and hopeful) after the drafts. It's one of the only things we have to really look forward to after like Week 3 of the regular season. lol


Call me optimistic, but I think we'll win 6 or 7 games next year. Thinking we won't is pretty depressing in my book. Also, I think our O-Line has gotten better. And I think our defense will be better. Having a young defense like ours with the D-Coordinator up in a booth never made sense to me. They need someone on the field coaching, especially while the offense is on the field and they're getting a breather

I think we our over/under number is 4, and that is before I saw the article where they predicted the same damn thing.

Certainly is better than 1. Hopefully we're better than 4 though.

You're not as high on Kessler as I am, that'll be a big factor I'd imagine. That and how the injuries play themselves out

Well, if Kessler is the starter...........I will reduce my win total as he negatively affects the performance of others. I know that won't be a popular statement, but he's already been figured out.

Stats don't tell the real story on this one.

But don't you think there's some chance that maybe after a season under his belt, working with Tom House on footwork and technique, that he will get rid of the ball quicker, feel more comfortable taking shots, and maybe even improve his arm strength just a little (which I think is the most criticized part to him, and i think it's a bit ridiculous. His arm strength isn't as bad as his unwillingness to take those shots)

I think he can improve mentally. I think he can rid of the ball quicker. I think he will improve on some of his strengths. However, the notion that a professional qb [who played at freaking USC} can significantly improve his arm strength is preposterous.

I think NE figured him out. I actually said it before they did it to us. Stack the LOS and stop the run, which was 4th in the entire NFL. Challenge him to beat you w/deep throws and the more difficult intermediate throws. Force him to dink and dunk his was down the field. He was able to do that a few times and some posters cling to that......like when he had that perfect drive against NE. The problem is that it was one drive. It's so hard to be perfect drive after drive.

Dude is limited. Thus, are other players are limited as a result. People will rag on Crow and Hue while pointing to Kessler's awesome stats.

Oh, I agree that arm strength can only be improved upon so much. You can work on foot work and core strength to improve it a little bit, maybe not much, but we've seen it work on some guys.

Peyton Manning didn't have a rocket coming out of Tennessee. Tom Brady didn't have a rocket coming out of Michigan. And Drew Brees never had a rocket. All three improved their arm strength throughout their time in the league IMO. Same with Chad Pennington (before all his injuries). Might not have been a significant increase, but I do think there was something.

I don't think his arm is as weak as people make it seem though. And I think that is an overrated attribute. Being able to throw with anticipation and being accurate with that deep throw is most important. Having good technique, footwork, and anticipation (so that you're throwing the ball on time) is just as important.


I think it's a matter of Cody willing to throw those passes than his abillity to actually do it

3 to 5 wins sounds about right for 2017. What I hope to see is significant improvement from game 1 to game 16. Build foundation for the future.

I think they will release Desmond Bryant. He's older and expensive. With the new guys they drafted, I think Bryant will be cut the minute his injury is healed. I could be wrong but it won't surprise me if they release him.

If Kessler is the man this year then we need to change the offense. Go straight up West Coast. A system that was designed for QB's just like Kessler. Hue CAN do that. He is very familiar with that offense. He was OC under Mooch at Cal and worked under Gruden in the Nati. But the offense he has said he wants to run is down field passing, stretch it offense... More like the Air Coryell offense. That isn't Kessler. You can't teach arm talent. You can try to improve it with technique to some extent but you can't make a Kessler into a Favre. I THINK that Brock will end up starting. Not that he has a huge arm or great downfield accuracy but I think he is better suited to what Hue wants to do.... I may be completely wrong about that.... he may get cut tomorrow... but my feeling is Brock is going to win the job in camp. We shall see....

I agree that 4 wins is about right. But I see that as a reason for optimism. That's 4 times as many wins as last year, and it promises more improvement as these pups gain experience and we add more quality players.

I agree Hooker would have been great, and I was both rooting for that pick and disappointed when we didn't take him. But at that moment, we didn't know how we were going to address the QB vacancy, and adding another 2018 1st rounder was a prudent, if not popular, move. The question, is Peppers + 2018 1st > Hooker? Only time will answer that.

Then Kizer was still there at 52. I was high on Kizer to start the college season, but my interest faded with his performance. He's a Brown now, and I hope Hue/Lee/House can straighten out whatever went haywire.

The front 4 will be better than it was. Great remains to be seen, but Garrett draws more attention giving the others more freedom. Where last year, Ogbah was the concern, this year he's the lesser threat, so should see more chances to affect the game. I remain optimistic that the other additions will improve the line as well.

I love that we are finally running a 4-3 defense. It is easier to play and easier to draft for. We have a really good start at a front four defensive line. We now have starting talent at 3 of the 4 positions and good chances at finding a 4th. We also have some real depth that can rotate in and keep the starters fresh for 4 quarters. That is important. Yes, or defensive backs are suspect and may cause us real problems. But you can't build Rome in one day. Everyone always says the game is won in the trenches. Well, the front office and coaching staff have greatly improved our offensive and defensive lines this offseason. The secondary will come in time as will other areas but it;s a start and in my opinion a damned good one. I'm hoping that getting pressure on opposing QB's will help the secondary at least somewhat.

Dominant. lmao slow down bro, I get you're excited.

"The Browns DL will be much Improved maybe to the point of becoming dominate"

Post what I said not what you want people to think I said

Ooops ...

I think the point he was making is that the word you were looking for in "dominant", not "dominate".

"The Browns DL is going to dominate their opponents."
"The BROWNS' opponents get blown up because our DL is so dominant."

Without a doubt the Potential is there...now we got to Achieve that POTENTIAL Lot of work ahead of us...but defense is very contagious in its passion to succeed. I like the work ethic here...even though Young we also have Ogbah and Shelton who are hard workers to set the example!

jmho

There is a lot of potential to be "DOMINANT" especially with GW as our DC ...

My 2 cents

Starters: DE: Myles Garrett, NT/UT: Danny Shelton 3-tech: Cooper/Brantley (if not in jail)/Ogunjobi DE: Emanuel Ogbah

Backups: DE: Cam Johnson NT/UT: Larry Ogunjobi 3-tech: Cooper/Brantley DE: Tyrone Holmes

Others: Jamie Meder, Gabe Wright, Nassib

You expecting Bryant to get cut?

I guess I don't really think of Bryant at all really. Average player coming off missing a season due to injury...I just think those guys will be as good or better soon.

The Browns will probably cut Bryant, but I think he is our best interior d-lineman. He is not just an average player. He has great explosion off the ball, shows pretty good gap discipline, and is good in the running game and as a pass rusher.

I hope we keep him, but we probably won't. And once again, I'll be disappointed.

I think that Bryant was a very good DL. Is he still a good choice now, after tearing his pec, sitting out a year, and entering a season where he'll turn 32? I just fail to see how he fits on a team about which Sashi Brown has said: ‘We’re trying to build a group that's going to be together for a long time’.

We have added 2-3 DL in this draft. (depending on how Brantley's situation turns out) They are going to take someone's spots. We have seen a preference for youth over experience under this regime, so I see Bryant going fairly soon.

Agreed. My biggest knock on Bryant has been his health. He seems to get injured a lot.

Otherwise, he's a very good player. And I think he's a great 3 Tech to put alongside Shelton.


I just remember some things last year where they were trying to negotiate a settlement or something. It's something that I found unusual, esp happening right around that whole issue that our nickelback had where he took himself out of the game or whatever.

I just get this feeling that we're waiting for Bryant to be declared healthy so we can cut him.


You mentioned in an earlier post about how our FO creates needs. I can agree with this. It is something I don't understand. I get that we like to set precedent in how we plan to deal with folks in the future, but guys like Bryant have been on the team for awhile and have shown themselves to be good players. Why create a new need?

If he recovers well, I'd like to keep him. Something makes me think we won't though. Therefore, hopefully Big Larry and Brantley step up. I don't have much faith in Xavier Rhodes and Meder really isn't a 3 tech

I agree w/your reasoning w/what the Browns will probably do. What I don't agree with is what the Browns will probably do. LOL

Couldn't we just cut him now if that's what we wanted to do?

Yes and no. If we cut him now we would have to get him to agree to an injury settlement.

can you please not derail Pastormarcs thread? This is about the front 4 , not another thread of you telling everyone how stupid they are.......again

Are you ever not in a sour mood?

no

This Fo is just starting to rebuild. Your going to have change. No way around that. Were weeding out the age and malcontents, and we also drafted replacements. We'll know this season if they were the right call.

Edit: Were not making changes just for the sake of making changes. Were trying to create a winning culture, and some on this Team just do not fit.

Do not know how good we are but i would love to see the practices with a Greg Coleman defense against the new improved ol.

Don't know who Greg Coleman is but I would like to see that, too.

The offensive and defensive lines should be improved.

When your talking about a quarterback competition between Kessler, Osweiler, Hogan, and Kizer expectations can not be high. Add the receiving corps which is unproven not sure how much can be expected?

The offense will remain offensively challenged.

The defense should show the most improvement. However, unless the pass rush is out of this world there will still be coverage issues.

The Browns are moving in the right direction which is the first step. It has taken a long time just to make that happen. When a team was as bad as it was; it is unreasonable to expect miracles.

Everyone knows (or should) it all starts at quarterback. Kessler should be better. He got a chance to learn last year. Learn in difficult circumstances. Talk about jumping into the kettle. Last years entire offense was horrible.

Kessler's improvement can only go so far because of his limitations. Osweiler was given the job and a bunch of money. He failed with a capital F. Hogan or Osweiler will most likely be cut. That leaves Kizer. A guy who should be at ND starting there not in the NFL. If Kizer ends up starting at some point that most likely means Kessler has played himself out of the position or gets hurt.

The product on the field should be watchable. Last year was not.

Haslam should now have gotten a large dose of humble pie and reality by now. At the same time he should be learning that knee jerk reactions will not help. That patience must be required.

Hue and Sashi should be safe. They need to show some improvement but I think Haslam will stick with them.

Next year they have to win. Even though the quarterback situation may remain unsolved; an answer must be provided.

Given what they did with Barnidge on the surface it makes since to belief Bryant to be at risk of being cut. I do think there are some differences in circumstances. The FO was able to see what they considered erosion in Barnidge's production. That last time Bryant was on the field he was still playing at a highly productive level The guys behind Barnidge are judged to offer more athletically. The O-line improvements are calculated to lessen the need for his in-line blocking skills. The scheme at the TE position doesn't call for the type of rotation that William's defensive scheme will demand if guys are expected to sell out on every play.

Bryant is a decent if not great interior pass rusher. I'm not sure that either Ogunjobi or Brantley today, have the same skillset. Brantley, if he stays, has more of that potential but Williams will have to put a foot up his backside to get it out of him. Until that materializes I hope they don't just kick Dez to the curb.

At this time Bryant seems like a more certain asset than either Cooper or Nasib inside.

Xavier Cooper, Nate Orchard, Carl Nassib, and Emmanuel Ogbah, need to be given time, get out of their way and let them play football and I think we've got a couple of stars in this league.

Jamie Meder will probably lose his starting role but not his spot on the roster. The additons of Garrett, Brantley, and Ogunjobi, probably means someone like Gabe Wright, won't make the team.

I won't be surprised to see Jabrill Peppers opposite Collins in coverage linebacker roles.

I think Meder will be on the bubble. I see Bryant as being cut when healthy.

forgot about Gabe Wright. I was kind of intrigued when we signed him, but you're probably correct

I agree with your assessment. I think that it will be a mistake to cut him this season.

Cooper has shown very little development in two seasons of play and is in no way close to the level of talent of Bryant.

I don't like to push rookie DT into a starting role until they have learned the nuances of the position vs the pro OL and offensive looks.

On paper, I agree. I think Bryant has come to the crossroads whether he can stay healthy for a full season. I am a big fan of Bryant. I hate this time where vets are on the bubble in their careers.

This is where I get really frustrated when teams, and fans, decide to blow it up. Bryant was a good player who never saw the right opportunity.

I won't like a Bryant cut...just like I didn't like the Barnidge cut...however, we know that Ogunjobi and Brantley are likely going to make the team. Cooper will have to show better to stick, but from what I understand, he's been miscast in his role(s) since he got here. (I suppose we could say the same for Bryant.)

Assuming Meder is Shelton's backup (which I am certainly not sure of), Bryant is facing a two-pronged #'s game. His age number and the number of younger guys who play the same position.

We are going to cut some DL guys who will be picked up by other teams...and by 'other teams' I mean more than just the Broncos.

I think that it is also likely that one of our rookie DTs will backup Shelton.

We signed Bryant in FA only after his high play at DT and then used him as a 5t, which was not best suited to his attributes as you have pointed out with Cooper also.

My point is that regardless of age, Bryant is the better of the two veterans and unless you foresee Cooper in the Browns future plans, then the age thing becomes a moot point imo.

I agree. I'm wondering if one of those rookie DTs backing up Shelton makes Meder expendable. I really like Meder because he's such a good guy, but even though we just re-signed him he is a one-trick pony to my eye.

Unfortunately I am thinking that Bryant may be gone even if he's better than Cooper right now. I think he will have to show as the best 3T we have in order to stick. Meaning if he's not #1, he's out. I wouldn't do that, but that's what I think will happen.

The quickest takeaway from this for me is simple: we are deep on the DLine now.

If you don't fit, you won't have a spot here.
If you aren't talented for your role, you won't have a spot here.

We no longer have room for guys in that room that are not an ideal fit for their role or have the talent level of "just a guy".

It's a pretty good problem to have, especially when running a 4-3.

I agree. Fantastic problem to have, even if that means seeing a good player get cut.

Williams has a wide variety of talent and players with strengths to mold his defense his. I just hope Jamie Meder is part of that mold, I just love the kid!

I would rather we kept 9 on the DL as opposed to 8, with Meder as a part of that group. With that said we would be keeping more on rhe DL and taking away one from another position. Eventually injuries tend to dictate numbers of every group.

Guys like Cooper and Orchard simply arent good enough to make the final 53.
You are either part of the solution or part of the problem
Farmer believed all their hype out of college and as a result neither has made a impact with the Browns
Blown draft picks by the worst GM in the NFL going back 5 Years.
The film doesn't lie on those 2.

The Browns had and have had the worst run defense in the NFL for a reason.

-This is the first time in a long time that I've felt confident in our DT depth.

-More than likely, we won't be keeping nearly as many LB's as we have in the past.

-Someone else mentioned Orchard. I'm still iffy on him, but I think he'll be put on the line vs the LB spot. He may contribute some in a backup role.

I agree. That is why some players who we have come to know will probably get pushed off the team. We are getting to the point where guys who were starters, or spot starters might not make the team.

Not only are we deep but the core group is locked up for 3 more years minimum.

If both of them play on the defensive line, then there's no way both make it. I too agree though, I doubt either player makes it.

I think its too early to write Cooper off.
He was a player without a position in a base 34 defense.
In a 43 he's a natural 3-tech DT and with Paea leaving there's more reps to be had.

I know this is going to sound negative, but I will wait to see how our new draft picks play before saying they will help our D-line.

I've seen this movie too many times.

That's why I like the veteran presence of a guy like Bryant. If he can still play well a starting rotation of Garrett, Bryant, Shelton and Ogbah, on paper is the best front we could put out there.

I agree.

Cooper seems over matched at this level. Even at WSU he wasn't a dominant player
He got by on a decent quick 1st step in college but he is easily singled blocked at this level
He has a very little punch and less leverage to boot.

Orchard was a fish out of water @ OLB, but for now I think that he could be that 4th DE, but he will need to show that he belongs over the rest of the pack of hopefuls.

Bryant was good - how he plays, I think he can perform post injury at a similar level. I hope they keep him in the mix ( hopefully sashi bends to the Harvard connection and does right by a veteran player )

where did Paea go? Dallas? He had some nice plays for us IIRC

Yeah he left saying something like "cant wait to play REAL defensive football" haha.

As a Brown Bryant has yet played a complete season.

2013 He missed 4 games
2014 he missed 1 game
2015 he missed 2 games
and of course 2016 the entire season.
this is a big time factor and having a VET INJURED on the sidelines I believe is a Negative and not a positive.

I get the need for a Leader...we are going with Youth on a lot of that, for the DL, Shelton will be an excellent leader and role model for the DL.
jmho

j/c

Any thoughts as to D Bryant playing some at DE?

I think he can do it. I believe he played both DE and DT when he was with the Raiders and they ran a 43 Base. I don't think they'd put him there based on Garrett and Ogbah penciled in to start. Don't think it would make a lot of sense keeping him with Nassib, Orchard, Holmes and/or Cam Johnson as younger/cheaper/adequate backups. I think he need to make the roster as a 3T, then maybe is rotate if injuries arise.

Still think the odds are against him sticking around.

I don't think missing 1, 2, or even 4 games in a season is any kind of red flag. A nagging, minor injury doesn't alarm anyone that I know of.

But an entire season on the other hand certainly does.

Not saying I agree or disagree with the thought process, but I'd say the future of Bryant rests more with where they think the puzzle pieces fit a couple of years from now, not this coming year.

If Brantley ends up facing legal issues and getting released, I believe Bryant makes the team.

If Brantley is cleared, barring major injury to someone else, I think Bryant is likely gone. If Barnidge doesn't pass their decision lens, then Bryant likely doesn't either.

3-4 yes...4-3 no thoughts at all. Unless he got a little lighter and faster from all his rehab???

I didn't think about it but the more I do I am thinking it would be a surprise if he is still here in September...I think a big key will be Brantley.

jmho

I don't think you can compare Bryant & Barnidge. I think Barnidge was Performance & cost basis release more so than age, although I think that did play into it. If Bryant shows high performance I think he might stick, however if he looks avg. then one of the rookies take his place.

What's the thought process? I think he'd be a liability and I'm probably the most pro-des poster on here.

My 2 cents...

I think many of you are being way to restrictive. You pigeon holed players in a simple base 4-3 defense. I think we will see situational football using key players Garrett, Collins, Shelton, and Kirksey.

As an example, lining Nassib next to Collins and Ogbah next to Garrett will make it difficult on offensive tackles. My favorite play Garrett, Bryant/Brantley, Shelton, and Ogbah on the line. Use Collins and Kirksey as MLBs with Kindred and Peppers at OLB. Play Powell single high safety with Taylor and Haden at the corners. Tell me where pressure is coming?

Individually I agree we look a little weak. Key here is match ups and rotation. I think we will see a lot more combinations than a simple 4-3. Hopefully we seen the end of hiring a new free agent to start every time someone gets hurt.

Just my two cents...

Bryant when on the field, always looks and plays like our best lineman...he pushes and flashes more than anyone consistently...However the guy is always injured or dinged up...I mean always

I saw nothing exciting of Cooper the year he was drafted...I know alot of people pimped him...I wanted nothing of him...He does play with solid quickness sometimes at the snap...but wastes that quickness to get taken out of the play often...Seemed to get a little puffy. If the light doesn't come on this year...he'll be gone.

Meder has a really nice motor and is always trying...I like him as a wave guy in our rotation...He just gets neutralized too often to be a starter

Brantley I can't go by much...He is one I would steer away from drafting in round 2 as that was his predicted round...Guy never played alot of snaps, and when in the game had horrible effort and his motor would just quit mid play...However legal trouble and bad tendencies led to him falling to us in round 6...may be only ever a rotation guy even if he steers clear of trouble...

THAT being said Desmond Bryant is our best shot...then again he's also likely to be injured or placed on IR at some point sadly.

You make a good point there. We will be in a 4-3 base but I'm guessing we will see a lot of different looks.

The guys who make the roster will have to have some flexibility or simply be the best at their projected position. ie. Shelton doesn't have to be flexible because he's our best NT as an example.

So...if Cooper is just a 3T and Des can be a 3T and play a little like a DE in certain sets, then Des has the upper hand. If Brantley can play 3T and backup the NT, he has an upper hand.

We have (4) guys who CAN play the 3T...if one of those guys can't help anywhere else on the line, he better be the best 3T we've got or he doesn't fit. (Peen basically said that same thing above.)

Going to have to agree with most of this post. Especially about Cooper. Definitely has a violent and explosive burst, but from there it hasn't seem to get him far. Cooper is on the bubble IMO.

j/c,
I don't get all the love for a player (Cooper), what has he done to warrent such optimism?

You never know...possibly with a well rounded and talented DL like ours certain guys with talent all of a sudden show greatness. Its part of being a team.

just an fyi...all depth charts I have seen show Garrett, Shelton, Larry O, Ogbah as our DL. Don't know why just what I've seen. But if Larry O is the real deal that looks good.

The love for Cooper has always been his explosiveness which hasn't given us much but how much is that HIM and not the TEAM in general. Also in the 3-4 he is easily doubled.

jmho

...show what some random person on the internet made up on their own.
There are no REAL depth charts as of yet.



As for Cooper, he's an under-the-radar hustle guy. When your team is as devoid of talent as we have been for so long, the hustle guys that keep their heads down and just work become popular.


"Hard Work will win when Talent doesn't want to Work"

Well, now we have Talent that does want to Work.... which means that some of the less talented guys, though they may hustle, will be looking for work.

Just sharing what I've seen...I was actually surprised then it was another and then another. Some big Internet stuff some not.

I could state that Bryant was a better 3t with the Raiders, yet was still the best DL and 5t on the team before his injury and I would be speaking the truth.

If you are going to give Cooper the benefit of the doubt for being in the wrong defense, then I think that one must give credit in the same regard to Bryant who was productive under the same circumstance.

Just a note here. Not sure what credit I gave Cooper?

But as for Bryant, I agree with the posters here who have stated he has been our best DL since he got here.

My opinion on Bryant now contributing to this team is based not on his history of play but on his age and the fact he has missed a lot of games due to injury and around 2-3 years ended his season on the IR all be it with 2-4 games left.

Those injuries add up combined with the age also with our Youth movement and our 3rd round pick and some depth we have.
I think Bryant could very well be gone.
jmho