School where Karen Pence will teach prohibits LGBT students, faculty

BY EMILY BIRNBAUM - 01/16/19 10:56 AM EST

The private elementary school where Vice President Pence's wife will teach art prohibits LGBT students and faculty, according to the school's employment application and parent agreement.

The Washington Post reported that Immanuel Christian School in Springfield, Va., requires potential employees to pledge that they believe marriage is between a man and a woman and that they do not engage in "homosexual or lesbian sexual activity" or "transgender identity," according to the employment application.

The document lists a series of standards for employees, asking them to confirm that they adhere to born-again Christian beliefs.

Robert Tuttle, a professor of law and religion at George Washington Law School, told the Post that the school's language regarding sexuality is typical for conservative Christian schools. He noted that Karen Pence's school choice is within her rights.

One section of the employment application asks candidates to agree that “the term ‘marriage’ has only one meaning; the uniting of one man and one woman in a single, exclusive covenant union as delineated in Scripture."

Another section asks applicants to affirm that they know they would be disqualified if they engage in “moral misconduct" such as "heterosexual activity outside of marriage (e.g., premarital sex, cohabitation, extramarital sex), homosexual or lesbian sexual activity, polygamy, transgender identity, any other violation of the unique roles of male and female, sexual harassment, use or viewing of pornographic material or websites, and sexual abuse or improprieties toward minors as defined by Scripture and federal or state law."

The school's policies were first reported by HuffPost.

A clause in the Immanuel Christian School's parent agreement says the school "reserves the right" to refuse admission to or discontinue enrollment of a student if their activities are "in opposition to the biblical lifestyle the school teaches."

"This includes, but is not limited to contumacious behavior, divisive conduct, and participating in, supporting, or condoning sexual immorality, homosexual activity or bi-sexual activity, promoting such practices, or being unable to support the moral principles of the school," the agreement states. "I acknowledge the importance of a family culture based on biblical principles and embrace biblical family values such as a healthy marriage between one man and one woman."

Mike and Karen Pence are evangelical, born-again Christians.

A spokeswoman for Karen Pence told the Post that the second lady previously taught at the Immanuel Christian School when Mike Pence was a member of Congress.

“It’s absurd that her decision to teach art to children at a Christian school, and the school’s religious beliefs, are under attack,” spokeswoman Kara Brooks said.

Karen Pence is planning to serve as an art instructor twice a week at the school through May, the White House announced Tuesday, her first day in the role.

“I have missed teaching art, and it’s great to return to the school where I taught art for twelve years,” she said in a statement.

https://thehill.com/homenews/administrat...-prohibits-lgbt

Religious freedom and protection? I get that it's a Christian school but this still disgusted me.

At first I would say, I dont really have a problem with this, as it is a religious school following their religious doctrine.

Freedom of religion is supposedly a thing.

But, then I thought about it, and I would have an issue with a muslim schools forcing women to wear that bs garb or being subserviant/treated unfairly by men, or preaching pedophilia.

So I guess if you dont like one thing, then you dont like it all.

What part of a private school proscribing the behavior of its students and employees don't you get?

I don't see a big deal. Freedom of choice.

Did she take the job there because of that, or is it a policy of a school in which she wanted to teach?


Me, I don't mind people of a different persuasion, but no, I don't really want girls in my restroom, or more on point, the other way around.

I guess I see it as when a persons faith is personal beliefs and actions that do not negatively affect others it's all good. But when using your religion as an excuse to discriminate against, be cruel or hateful toward, or in anyway harm another then I think it's basically wrong. And honestly it goes against Christ's teachings.

I've never been one who approves of religion being used as an excuse for discrimination.

They can teach whatever they want, they can hire whoever they want. Just like forcing a baker to make your cake there are other bakeries. They will have to deal with the consequences if there are any. The same crowd saying "Don't like it, don't watch it" to Michelle Wolfe's horrendous abortion celebration are the same ones saying hiring and teaching what you want is hateful.


Don't like it, don't send your kids there. Don't like it, don't support it. Stop trying to force your ideology on everyone else.

I thought that treating everyone fairly was human kindness and actually represents Christianity more than ideology. But everyone has their own perspective.

As a Christian myself I get embarrassed when self proclaimed Christian organizations act in such a manner. It makes my faith look bad.

I agree with your assessment entirely. I also think it's financially ridiculous to exclude people as a for profit school t, but they have every right to do what they want. Just like people have every right to not attend or send their kids there.

The Christian Alt-Right GOP is the party of exclusion. No LGBTQ, No Off White, No Science, No Facts... just saying.

At some point everyone needs protection from oppression no matter where they are. There's also this whole discrimination thing. Of course the LGBTQ community hasn't been afforded the same protections as everyone else. So there's that.

You went from a pretty reasonable dude to basically an alt left troll in like a 3 month time frame. Your response to me had nothing to do with my post other than to elicit a response.

I haven't changed. I say what's on my mind.

I'm not following. What protections do they not have, perhaps I am ignorant to the subject.

I think they should not be able to be discriminated against even by religion. Religious freedom is a wonderful thing. But to use religion as a weapon to discriminate is where I believe a line should be drawn.

Any way one chooses to look at it someone loses out. Either the one with a different sexual preference or the one with the religious belief. It's just my belief that individual freedom overrides religious freedom.

Many people are gay but also have Christian beliefs. Some consider that an oxymoron but some believe they can do both and some are very conflicted when the two are both a part of their life. But as a Christian myself, I simply don't believe that the message of Jesus has anything to do with excluding or ostracising anyone.

I would agree with all of that. I was raised catholic but my beliefs have some serious alterations. Basically, I believe in god but do not take a man written book as the word of god. I don’t believe in the church in its current state either. Off topic, have you ever been to St. Peters basilica in Rome? How can I buy into a religion that tells me to care for the poor but built this monstrosity? If my views hadn't changed prior to being in that thing, the vastness of it changes my mind. There is no chance they built that without slaves. Way digressing, anyway….

The Libertarian in me says, I would be perfectly fine if gay people excluded straight children and teachers from their schools, so it’s fair play.

We do see this differently but I think each of us made our opinions known in a constructive manner.

No, I've never been there but I was never Catholic. The whole "Pope thing" was always an obstacle for me.

I was not aware that a persons sexual preferences make them a worse student or employee.. Shame on me for not catching onto that..

I really don't care what she chooses to do with her career.

The Pence couple is pretty religious, I am not surprised.

I will even say that he/she follows the standard that they have discussed.

It is not my cup of tea, and I don't agree with their position, but I am not going to tell them that they can't live their life the way they wish.

And I expect them not to tell me how to live mine.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a Christian school to have instructors who follow the teachings of the Bible. I also don't think it's weird they ask for the students who go there to also follow the teachings of the Bible. I mean what's the point of teaching it if your not going to follow the rules you teach? If you can't follow the rules yourself then how could you possibly be qualified to teach them.

It's simple common sense. You wouldn't expect a Muslim school to hire Christian teachers either. If they did you would mock them for being stupid.

If you want to teach or attend at a Christian school then it makes perfect sense to expect them to want you to be a Christian and to act like one. If you don't want that environment then teach at or attend somewhere else. Your not a slave being forced to work or attend there. It's a PRIVATE school not a PUBLIC school.

I know I'm just an Atheist but I would imagine that any God that would give his only son for the sins of man might practice total acceptance. I mean he let's pedos, murderers, rapists, thieves, violent thugs, conmen, and conservatives redeem themselves; why they hell would he want gays stoned? That is where the bible teaches some old ass troglodyte laws based in pure need to reproduce for survival by passing them off as God's will. Only a fool or an ass would think this way in modern times imho.

Nor am I. It's when they use their way of life as a weapon to discriminate and treat other Americans as some type of second class citizens that I have a problem with.

He will forgive anyone who repents and asks forgiveness because he is loving and merciful. What you nutcases always like to forget is the "repenting" part. That means you give up the life of sin and do your best not to continue living in it by doing the same things you did before. If you ask for forgiveness and just keep committing the same old sins as before then you never really asked for forgiveness to begin with. Your certainly not asking for forgiveness if you don't even think what you did was wrong and your free to keep doing the same old things you did before.

I say again that there is no forgiveness if there is no repentance. Lip service won't cut it. Having a repentant heart shows that you have prayed with your full heart and with the intent to change your sinful ways.

You say the laws are outdated. I say your very wrong. Every successful society that kept their power for any real length of time had 5 cores to it's success:

1) Keep your people safe. Dead people don't make a great nation.
2) Educate your people not just in books but in craftsmanship so that all manner of work can be done and done to high standards.
3) Develop high morality among your people so they don't prey upon each other and build strong helping communities.
4) Keep your people Healthy. Sick people don't work and contribute and often end up dead.
5) Keep your people fed. Hungry people don't stay healthy and often become violent out of desperation.

You need all five of these things to have a successful country. Following the teaching of the Bible and reinforcing the value of building strong families where each child has the same mother and father and both parents are working hard to raise those children to work hard, be moral, seek wisdom, learn from the mistakes of others, and to demand their fellow countrymen do the same is the key to the foundation of a successful society.

History proves over and over again that when you fail at these things that society ends up being warped and falling apart. It's not about producing X amount of people. It's about producing people who have high morals and follow God's laws that have stood the test of time.

We all have our vices that lead us towards sin. No one is under a greater temptation than anyone else. We are just arrogant in thinking that our sin is less than someone else's sin because we can come up for what we think is a good excuse for it. Sinners always have an excuse as to why their sin is the sin that is OK. Sin is Sin. Period. Sin is disobedience to God. Doesn't matter if you like the rules or not. They are there for our world's benefit. Take up your cross and deal with your temptations. Stop making up excuses and set that crap down instead of letting it weigh you down.

You have the freedom to choose. That is what is great about God. You can choose to let go of the lifestyle that weighs your soul down and fly free to heaven or you can hold on to the sins you love so much and let them weigh you down straight to hell. The choice is in our hands. He gave it to us by letting Jesus suffer in our place of his own free will to save us. It wasn't some easy choice for Jesus either because he certainly asked God to let him out of it if he could but in the end he sucked it up and obeyed God. It's not wrong or evil to ask for your burdens to be lightened but sometimes God wants us to take up those burdens anyways. He doesn't force us to but wants us to. You get to make your choice and every day you will keep making choices. It's on you whether you live life the right way or not. Don't complain later on.

I don't really get mad at sinners for being lost and not knowing better. The ones I get angry with are people who claim to be Christian but them have a list of excuses to not obey God because they arrogantly think they know better than God. I find that to be truly disgusting because they should know better. They need to stop making excuses to justify the sins they like just because it requires suffering to give them up. Live for the spirit and not for the flesh.

If it's too hard for you to do alone I am happy to pray with you and you can always ask your pastor for help. Let's stand together to fight our weaknesses instead of making excuses to fail. Success is always sweeter than failure.

We all knew a speech would be coming as to why it's fine to treat people you disagree with as second class citizens. And claim God told you to do it.

And the beat goes on.

The left always looking for no rules.

Some prefer to make excuses to live in sin. I prefer to be honest and forthright. I don't agree with treating anyone as a second class citizen. I do believe in right and wrong though.

Attacking the sanctity of marriage which is a legal contract for the protection of a woman and her children that she puts her life on the line for, all for the sake of insurance premiums was the wrong thing to to do. The better thing would have been to make insurance available to everyone equally because good health should be available to all and not to just a lucky few.

What people do in their homes is between them and their maker, so long as, they are not hurting people or preying upon children. It doesn't mean that what you do at home is acceptable behavior just that it's none of anyone else's darn business. Private things should stay private. I would prefer that gay or hetero or whatever weird crazy thing is invented that people keep their sexploits to themselves.

Marriage is for legitimizing the birth of children and providing a legal inheritor of property. In other words if you marry a woman and have children then her children inherit your property and not your bastard children from your acts of adultery. It's been that way for thousands of years across many different cultures and societies and religions. It's not a Christian definition but a World definition.

G and L can't produce children so there is no legal justification for calling them married. Domestic partners was an appropriate legal definition. Then again I think that designation should have been available for any two people living together and sharing cost of living. Why can't a pair of siblings not be able to use that term. If my brother is living with me and I am taking care of him due to whatever reasons then why can't I put him into my family plan? Why can't I do that with my best freind too?

Of course having universal healthcare eliminates 99% of any need for domestic partnerships too.

I’m not sure how insisting people aren’t treated badly over sexual orientation is “no rules”?

You don't have the conservative irrational logic to connect those dots bro. Just say something sappy like 'the beat goes on' and mumble some nonsense, then you might get it... or not.

When that rule includes discriminating against others, you may be correct. Jesus had a message of love, not hate.

Everyone has a right to their religious beliefs. What they shouldn't have a right to is the ability to use those beliefs to discriminate against others.

If accepting the fact that a strong family unit is the single greatest hallmark of a thriving society backed by thousands of years of historical proof is discrimination then let those who prefer to weaken the country live somewhere else.

Jesus viewed homosexuality as an abomination against God the same as his Daddy did. Then again you don't believe in the Bible anyways except when you feel like it. But since I do I will quote it.

1st Corinthians 7 v1-4
Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.

In other words it's great not to get married and devote yourself to prayer. IF you lust then find a wife and surrender your bodies to each other to keep you both safe from sin.

Acceptance of sin or a sinful lifestyle should never be OK with anyone who claims they love God and Jesus as their lord and savior. Be very careful in perverting the world of God because Paul stated very clearly:

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


If your going to talk about Christ don't use your imagination and what you wish he said and instead Quote him directly. That is my sincere advice to anyone. Stick to the book instead of rewriting a new one that makes you feel more comfortable.

Love your fellow man and love him more by rebuking him when he sins to keep his feet out of hell for the sake of a moments desire of the flesh.

No way. It's been more than 3 months since I've been here and he was a hate-filled, stereotyping, generalizer long before that.

Aw shucks, you guys really love me!

There's a difference between accepting a fact and forcing it on everyone in society. There's a difference in having your own beliefs and inflicting your beliefs on others. There's a difference in having your own beliefs and using those beliefs as a weapon to discriminate against others who do not share your views. Yet you ignore all of that.

The protection of the family unit is the fundamental core of what determines a society's success as a nation. That is fact whether you like it or not. It has nothing to do with religion. It's pure scientific fact. Those with the intelligence to learn from history and do legitimate scientific study have known and understood this for thousands of years and new studies only validate it.

Those societies that fall into moral decay and stop protecting the family unit ALWAYS fail. ALWAYS.

You will use anything from scripture to fanatical claims as an excuse to treat those who disagree with you as second class citizens and state that they will doom our society. Nothing about that sounds Christian to me.

There are those who live for the flesh and those who live for the spirit. Homosexuality is a sin. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter if you like it or not. Sexual immorality has always been a harbinger to a decline in public morals.

The Bible teaches it and so does history and science. Just because you want to do something doesn't make it right to do it. You can level all the personal attacks at me that you want if it makes you feel better but it won't change the facts.

A husband and wife raising their kids to have high moral standards is the foundation of a successful society. That is a fact. Not my opinion.

Successful societies and religion never mix. Look at the dark ages or the middle East today.

The God of Abraham, that the Christians, Muslims and Jews follow is also incompatible with democracy.

When you use religion to deny others rights you have decided to inflict your beliefs on society. That stands in direct conflict with freedom of religion. Freedom of religion also implies you have freedom from religion. Not everyone believes the way you do and should not have your beliefs inflicted upon them.

Maybe it's time you understand that while you have the right to believe and live as you please, so does everyone else.

I love it when religious folks use their faith as the epicenter for human morality. Hilarious and ironic all at the same time.

Agreed.
I think it's great that we now allow two dads or two moms to raise kids and contribute to the health of our society. Better for everyone all around.

If I can channel my inner Clem here and share a story-

My mother is a semi-devout Christian woman who long believed the insane stuff Razorthorns is babbling about. Sin, indeceny, the family unit- all the nonsense.

Then one day she started working with a gay man. And it didn’t take long for all of that idiocy to melt away. I’d spent frustrating *years* trying to point out her flawed thinking, and was met with the same lines over and over and over.

And then she befriended a gay person, and realized she was wrong.

Nothing I ever said made a dent in her beliefs. She had to see it for herself.

That's why you don't see me slamdancing with Razor or anyone else over this subject.

And trust me- Razor has gay friends just like your Mom or you- or me. He just doesn't know that they're gay. Some of them sit next to him in church. Because not everyone is out, which is fine- and covered by their right to privacy.

Clem I have know lots of gay people. Went to school and worked with them just fine. In general, unless I see a man hitting a woman or a kid being bullied there is almost nothing that will lead me to anger.

I don't hate people who are gay. I just don't accept their behavior as being OK. It's a sin. Plain and simple. Liars are just a big of a sinner. To God, a sin is a sin. Sin is disobedience to God's will. Nowhere does it say in the Bible to hate people. That doesn't mean you ignore sinful behavior though. It means your rebuke them and try to lead them back to the path that saves their soul regardless of what the flesh wants.

If your not a Christian then it won't matter if it's a sin. That's your problem and not mine. I am not responsible for your actions other than being able to tell God that yes I did warn him but he ignored me. It's not like I am going to burn for someone else sinning. There is no reason for me to hate someone who is different than me.

I just won't give up my principles and beliefs in God to make someone else more comfortable. It's not right for the state to violate someone rights to make them accept beliefs they hold to be false. I understand that when you guys read my post its with your own internal voice but in reality I am a very calm and quiet person who very seldom has anger or hatred in me.

So you decry homosexuality in public forums and vote for a liar who has cheated on all three of his wives. Makes perfect sense to me!

To a certain degree it's better than growing up in an orphanage or an abusive home. I certainly will never fault people for being kind enough to raise another person's child if they do so with love and are capable people.

There are some cases where the kids being raised that way find it disturbing and others where they don't. It's a new thing though and there simply isn't enough data to make an argument one way or another. There are plenty of messed homes either way so I say bless anyone gay or strait that can a kid love and work their butts off to raise them.

That doesn't change the fact that kids are still best raised by their biological parents in a strong and happy marriage. It's scientifically proven that it is. I mean it's not even debatable. But that is the ideal and not the situation everyone is lucky enough to have. That doesn't mean as a society that we should strive for the ideal but just that we need to allow for those who can't have the ideal the best chance they can get for their situation. I would never deprive a kid of a loving parent who takes care of them well.

I just don't see the justification for changing what marriage is after thousands of years. Then again so many people these days don't even take marriage seriously anyways so I guess if it's meaningless to you and just some scrap of paper then sure who cares. I mean if it don't work just divorce right?

I just don't believe that way. To me marriage is a sacred vow between a man and a woman to stick together under God and raise their kids to the best of their ability for the rest of their lives. To ME it's not a casual thing. The attitude of the general public on not honoring their vows is the single greatest thing that disgusts me about our modern and shameful society.

You think Hillary is not a liar? Give it a rest man. She is not just a liar but a traitor to our country. I would vote ANYONE else to keep her out of power where she could do even more harm.

Like I said, making excuses to vote for someone who has the morals of an alley cat and lies several times on a daily basis sounds so Christian. And for your information, I didn't vote for Hillary either.

I didn't wish to put myself in your position where I had to sell my morals and values down the river just to have to make excuses for it later.

I didn't sell anything out. I made a choice. Not voting is just copping out and I don't believe in that. Soldiers die so we have the right to vote so I will always vote when it's time even if I don't have a candidate I like. Like I said. I voted the lesser of two evils and it was the right thing to do. I don't need to make excuses for making the best possible choice available.

Life is full of choices where sometimes no matter what you do your screwed. No point in crying over it. Make your choice. Live with it and move on.

Yes you did make a choice. And we all know how that choice compares to what you claim you stand for. But hey, at least Trump isn't gay. That we know of.

So I am evil now because I didn't vote for Hillary?

Just stop man. Your being beyond ridiculous.

No, you sold your moral values down the river and voted for trump. You sit here and preach to others about the sins of homosexuality. You say other sins are just as bad. Yet then vote for and support a man with the morals of an alley cat, if even that.

Are you evil you ask? That's not for me to say. I'm aware that I shouldn't judge others. I'm aware that I shouldn't cast the first stone. I'm aware that vengeance isn't mine. But from reading some of your posts, I'm not quite sure you've gotten the message.

What I do know is you preach one thing to others and then refuse to follow your own principals you seem to require from others. My responses you are reading is what happens when you go on a public forum trying to act sanctimonious and righteous while supporting a scum bag. You get what you give.

Your logic is broken. Not voting during that election is the same as voting for hillary. Enough with your nonsense already. I'm done with your trolling today.

Reality bites.