DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 28 Titans 14 Post game comments

this was a team win for sure.

JFF welcome to the big show.

My son and I talk a lot of QB football (because he plays QB) My son pointed out in the preseason that his footwork and his pocket presence has improved since College. He is actually making reads and learning how to pick apart the D. Much different JFF.

Most importantly, he learned how to be a team player and not a team headache. (credit the vets for this one)

The best QB in the NFL sat for a number of years behind Farve learning the game. Sitting on the bench has done Johnny some good. I think he has some work to do but he is showing improvement.

LMAO Call a lifeguard

j/c:

Johnny Manziel- I think he made much progress from last week to this week but still has aways to go. Again, fumbling the ball is a big issue and he needs to be able to limit those ASAP. I really like the fact that the run first mentality might be fading and has really improved his down-the-field looks. Even when escaping the pocket, he looks for the open receiver...I don't recall that being the case last year. Much better accuracy from last week and better decision making. Clearly the offense wasn't centered around him, but thought the OC did a good job at managing Johnny.

My man, Travis Benjamin! So happy Tabor defended and stuck up for this kid the entire time. It helped with this confidence as he was coming back physically and mentally. Glad to see him return back to that weapon on ST. He can be a difference maker back there. One more thing on Tabor, because I know MANY people were calling for his job over the past three years, but this unit has remained the most consistent group we've had and it is because of him. There is a reason he has survived three different regimes And Moore > Bademosi?? Please. Bademosi has been ALL OVER THE PLACE so far this year. The man continues to prove why he needs to be on this roster. Don't get me wrong, I like Moore as a ST guy too, I just like Bademosi so much more.

I feel like we had a lot of coverage sacks yesterday (I think in large part, our CBs played very well) but thank goodness for Armonty Bryant. He was a difference maker out there and hope to see him on the field more.

I think I'm done with Mingo. I was someone that was stoked he was picked but hasn't done much. Yeah, I think I'm gonna move on.

Great seal block from Schwartz on that Crowell TD and disagree with people who aren't high on this kid, sorry texaslostdawg. I just don't see what you're seeing. Our pass protection has been great and Mitchell Schwartz is our second best OL after Thomas through two weeks. Bitonio needs to limit the penalties.

The big concern with me is Alex Mack. Maybe drafting Irving wasn't because we assumed Mack would leave but because he won't be the same after the injury? I don't know but so far he doesn't look the same. He was getting blown up...hopefully this is just a fluke through two weeks, because he didn't look in week one either.

Great play from Robertson, Kirksey, and Dansby.

Haden owned Kendall Wright.

Whitner=overrated

Great team win all around. Not that much to complain about, which is nice for a change.

Looked like a totally different team out there. It was impressive.

So, can we do it again?

Which team shows up next Sunday?

You're so predictable. I could have written that post for you. I even called it and you still wrote it. If you ever plan on taking a break from the board but would like your post count to continue to go up, I can fill in for you. Free of charge, of course.

I can't remember the last time you wrote a post that was just happy or positive without a million qualifiers. Post them if you have. Go back a year a if you'd like.

If anyone watched the Packers - Seahawks game last night, I found it alarming the number of times that both Rodgers and Wilson broke the pocket unnecessarily. Most of the time they were breaking the pocket to throw, but at one point in the game Wilson made a conscious decision to become a running back. And neither of those QBs would have thrown that same third down that Manziel had away.

I think beating the Raiders will be tough because we are due for a let down after this win.

However, so are the Raiders and they have to travel across the country.

Carr looked really good, though.

Their passing game is VERY good ... Cooper/Crabtree look to be a great combo thus far ... and Carr looks ahead of Johnny in his progress of course

IIRC, we were fortunate to beat Oakland last year ... and Mack killed us on the defensive side

I saw a lot of fire in this team. Determined to show last week was not who they were.

Johnny needs to speed up that clock in his head, so he can tuck or throw away the ball a hair quicker, and avoid those fumbles.

We need to really work on a short passing game. Long balls are great, but unless we can run at will, we really need to have some short passes to keep the D loosened up when we are preserving a lead.

All in all, I like what I saw with a couple minor exceptions, the throw into double coverage, fumbles, stupid penalties.

If they don't blow a play dead or throw a flag, how can they let the play run all the way through and THEN call a delay of game, that is ridiculous. If I was the coach and one of my players got injured on that play, I would be all up that refs face.

Benjamin is becoming a player that oppo DC's will have to scheme for. They are going to have to assign deep safety help, which will help our running game and also help open up the short-middle slants and crossing routes. Congrats to Travis for proving me wrong about him. I thought he was playing scared, always running for the sidelines, but I forgot one thing - you can't teach speed.

Likewise, kudos to Manziel for coming up aces on two beautiful deep throws, for an effective, controlled-scramble style of play, for having the vision to slide before that LB broke his neck, and most of all, for being clutch when the situation called for it. I'm big on QBs that make big plays with the game on the line in the 4th Q. Now, about that ball security ... can't be fumbling every time you get hit. Learn to anticipate better and cover up. I'd also like to see Manziel add some bulk to help absorb those hits. Not muscle bound like Quinn - just bigger, maybe like Drew Brees.

Best pass rush I've seen in many moons from the Browns. Mariotta must feel like he was in a 3-against-1 bar fight this morning.

Like others, I thought Whitner was late to the ball on several plays, like that TD pass at the goal line for instance. I think he saw it and simply couldn't react in time.

Kicking game deserves some credit - they've both been money so far. Now keep it up when the winds are blowing down by the lake.

Robertson might have saved a touchdown when he ran down McCluster on that one play where he broke free down the middle. He's fast.

Hawkins caught a nice throw by Manziel with no one within 5 yards of him and then just fell down when there was some real estate in front of him. WTF?

Krueger still crashing the edge at too severe of an angle to prevent RBs from getting outside of him - needs to get more upfield to force the RB inside where support is.

That's it - good win for the Browns; one that we had to have, IMO. Despite not having been onboard for the Manziel experiment, I'm still happy for the young man that he has at least turned things around enough for the bit of redemption this win gives him. Gotta keep improving, though.

I wanted to add, we don't have the type of defense *yet* that we can get vanilla on offense when we get up a score or two.

Flip let off the throttle there, and almost let Titans mount a comeback.

I can't disagree with anything in that post, Memphis. ..and I've always been a Schwartz supporter.

That was a very exciting -3 yard catch too. That was the bubble screen that got blown up, spun around, went back across the field, Manziel threw the block and he was eventually run out of bounds.

Lol oh yes I remember now .. it's funny how you forget about some random plays until later on

he ran 70 yards to lose 3

2 TDs. I'll never forget watching that game. That stadium was going insane after that second punt return.

This.

But only if Manziel starts.

What makes TB so dangerous is the combination of him and JFF on the field together. Yesterday's TD passes showed why...When Manziel runs around like a headless chicken in the backfield, TB knows to just take off and out-run the defense. No DB can stay with him for that long when JFF extends the play.

If McCown starts, TB loses much of his value on offense. McCown will be better in the short to intermediate passing game but he cannot do what Johnny does.

I was 7 years old sitting with my dad on the couch (IIRC it was later in the year and a cold late afternoon) ... one of my first Browns memories.

I also remember Jay Novacek getting stopped just short of the endzone in Dallas on the last play ... anyone remember this?

jc:

Cleveland Browns

– QB Johnny Manziel (-2.7) led the Browns to victory for the first time in his career. The Browns put Manziel in a great position, where he only had to make a couple of plays to win the game; he was able to produce on those moments by moving out of the pocket and delivering two bombs downfield to WR Travis Benjamin (+1.6) for touchdowns. However, Manziel desperately needs to keep the ball secured tightly when being sacked; thankfully for the Browns, they recovered both of the QB’s fumbles, but if this issue reoccurs, they might not be so lucky.

– The Browns defense was able to pressure Titans QB Marcus Mariota (-4.0) all day long. Mariota was the pressured on 41.3 percent of his dropbacks and was sacked seven times. The Browns confused the Tennessee offensive line with multiple zone blitzes that the Titans where unable to pick up on a consistent basis.

– NT Danny Shelton (0.0) was the 12th overall pick in this years draft, and for a rookie, held his own versus the Titans. While he didn’t produce much on the stat sheet (three tackles and one run-stop), he was able to make life difficult for the Titans by using his body to occupy double teams without getting moved out of the hole.

Top performers:

LT Joe Thomas (+3.7)
DL Randy Starks (+2.7)
CB Tramon Williams (+2.4)
DL Jamie Meder (+1.8)
LB Karlos Dansby (+1.7)

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...ms-for-mariota/

PFF doesn't think Benji was a top performer?

Wow!

Offense looked like it was firing on all cylinders at times, and I was loving the play calling from Flip ... and then they last their way for a long time. Looked and felt as if the momentum was shifting until the long TD play by JFF and TB. . . That was a moment of extreme relief because I was slowly and subconsciously getting more tense.

JFF - played ok. He seems to give the Browns the big play potential. Seemed to be looking to throw first always which is a big step. The 2 long TD bombs were lovely - and probably something JMM can do that McCown wouldn't. Having said that I'd be happy for McCown to come back in and start *** If we get the same QB that marched the team down on the first drive of the game last week vs the Jets ***.

Running game was much improved - I think it speaks to some rust coming out of a light camp - and the quality of the Jets DL. Duke Johnson has good instincts and can make people miss. The Crow's TD run was awesome - showed good 2nd and 3rd effort to get across the line.

Little worried that the WR's seem to disappear for stretches. Also the TE's have been under utilized in my opinion. Bowe is a total head scratcher.

Defense had all sorts of pressure for nearly the whole game - we really beat up on MM. But the fact that we went twice to a right overload blitz, and the second time we did that we got schooled with the long completion, makes me worry.

Tramon Williams looks like a very significant upgrade over Skrine in his 2 games so far. On the flip side I don't remember Whitner last year whiffing on 2 tackles like he did yesterday, he had a similar whiff last week. That is a genuine concern.

It's encouraging and its what I expected last week - the team should be competing in nearly every game. I am hoping that Mack is still getting back into the swing of things - he has struggled at periods of both games. That's very unlike him .... that injury has taken a toll ---> is the form loss permanent or temporary?

I am so glad Ravens got beat - because I fully expect to whip Oakland when they play next week. The win by Oakland should help prevent some of the boo boys who will be saying "we only beat the Titans and the Raiders" ....

PFF looks at the performance of the player on every single snap .... having a great game with 4 or 5 big plays doesn't automatically mean you get a high rating.

I gotta throw out a mention to Lee - his 43 yds per punt were really awesome. What a great trade we made .... (which just reminds me of the boo boys and how they made fun of that trade when it went down).

Benjamin had +1.6 according to PFF rating system. So, he's top 6 if they expanded the top performers list by one more player.

I have no expectation of beating the Raiders.

Ok, I knew I had to explain further. If we were down, this play would be great, as you have to take on greater risk to make a play, perfectly fine with that. But we had a 7p lead, late in the game, ball around midfield, totally different situation. Spinning backwards and running against your arm side is not a safe move, never will be. He had to run all the way to the sideline to stop and reset his feet and he barely had the time to do all of that, because there was no defender even nearby when he took off. You won't convince me that he "saw" or knew what was going on on the side of the field where he has no eyes on. That was "vintage Johnny" as even Pettine called it and I thought most of the board agreed that this purely instinctual stuff outside the pocket had to be reigned in, ESPECIALLY in situation that don't demand for it.
You can see and say similar things on both his fumbles. He tried to escape and work his magic, only that a defender was much closer and never let him do that. Those are comparable plays, that's the point I'm trying to make. In all cases he tries to play Houdini, but with extremely different outcomes.
All I demand is some consistency regarding the evaluation of Manziel's play. Fans are too outcome oriented per definition, but this place should do better. If you love those plays, fine, but then realize that those fumbles will always be part of it at a very high rate too. To not see that those plays are attached at the hip is naive in my opinion. I am 100% convinced that Pettine realizes that too, but that's just my opinion/hunch.


And Rish, man, what the hell is up with you? If you want to make this into a personal pissing contest fine, I can dig up all your oh so "non qualifying Weeden" cheer posts that don't exist. Please stop the hypocrisy. Pretty much the entire board has clearly seen both positives and negatives in Manziel's game, but you call me out for naming them? I'm sorry that my world isn't as black and white as your's. I've never had my opinion of a game or play influenced too much by the outcome of it. At least I'm consistent. You don't even realize that you're the big agenda guy in this do you?

I disagree with this assertion... the first TD was thrown from in the pocket.. and if Manziel has impressed me with anything so far this year, it is that his roll outs seem much more calculated and under control. there isn't much "running around like a headless chicken" these days... he's rolling out with purpose, keeping his eyes downfield and generally making good decisions..

Once again PFF saw the game I saw, but I guess they, as me, have an anti-Browns agenda. That, of course, makes much more sense.

Anyways, here they explain why Manziel earned another negative grade this week:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20...ns-best-option/

Browns QB Johnny Manziel ended the game against Tennessee the victor of the latest Heisman Bowl, defeating Titans rookie QB Marcus Mariota and finishing with a spectacular looking passer rating of 133.9 thanks to two touchdown passes and no interceptions.

That box score looks fantastic, but his PFF grade was -2.9, almost all of which came as a passer (as opposed to rushing). But those negatives are hidden deeper in his play, either from the box score, or disguised as fumbles.

Manziel lost the football twice when being sacked, risking a potential turnover that was averted on both occasions by the quick reactions of his teammates. Having the ball knocked out in a strip-sack you never saw coming is one thing, but allowing it to come out when you know the pressure is there and contact is imminent is poor ball security that will punish a team over the long term.

Though he only missed on a few throws in the game, there was one big poor decision that he was fortunate to avoid being punished for, throwing an ill-advised pass down field into double coverage only to see it dropped by Titans cornerback Perrish Cox. Throwing a hopeful jump ball into double coverage is questionable at the best of times, throwing it to a 5-foot-7 wide receiver in the shape of Andrew Hawkins isn’t even giving the wide receiver a chance to bail you out of your bad decision.

Much like Mariota last week, Manziel didn’t play quite as well as the box score suggests, and had the ball bounced a different way on those plays the narrative would likely be a little different, but the key question for Cleveland fans is whether he is a better option than Josh McCown going forward.

The answer to that question undoubtedly has to be yes. But for an anomalous stretch of excellent play in Chicago, McCown’s career has been consistently negatively graded during the PFF era, assuming he was even playing. McCown is a quarterback who has been out of the NFL on a couple of occasions before being handed reprieves by a league so starved of quarterback talent it will take yet another shot on a passer proven to be below par simply because there are no better options. There were good reasons that McCown found himself without a team on more than one occasion, but his play for the Bears under Marc Trestman bought him another go-around of personnel guys trying to recapture that magic.

However, McCown is far more likely to play to his career baseline – below average, at best – than he is to reproduce that seven-game stretch of excellence from 2013. McCown can operate an offense, and even make some things happen with his legs, but he can’t make the plays that Manziel was making yesterday against the Titans. The two touchdown passes to Travis Benjamin in particular as well as a couple of other ad-libbed positive passes represent a ceiling that McCown just doesn’t have.

The deep throw into double coverage was a terrible decision.

Even if we had a 6' WR with speed it would of been a better chance, but Hawkins is tiny..

We need a tall WR that actually cares about catching the ball.

I do agree that with Manziel there will always be a bit of a risk/reward situation.... I disagree that the fumbles always have to be a part of it. He has to be taught that he doesn't have big bear paws like Ben that keep people from swatting the ball out and that he needs to tuck it and protect it when he's in traffic.

I also disagree that he didn't know there wasn't another defender out there when he wheeled and rolled left. the only guy out there at the snap was the edge rusher, the guy that he spun to avoid. He should have had a high degree of certainty that there was not another defender to that side.

I'll need to go back and rewatch - my memory of the play is that he undoubtedly saw the blitzer from his left. Even to the point where he is watching him over his left shoulder as he spins around - to make sure he's going to miss him.

As for the situation - conservative play calling got us into a bunch of crappy down/distance plays at the end of the game. I was hoping for some play action and some killer instinct from the team on first down. . . . but a win is a win is a win.

Benjamin has three receiving TDs. Two of them were on designed passes from the pocket.

I agree with both of these points.

Also, by rolling out to his left, even knowing that there are no WRs on that side of the field, it still gives JM the opportunity to throw the ball out of bounds as opposed to taking a sack in the pocket.


I really don't think that play was "vintage Johnny" either. It was a pretty typical escape that few QBs in this league can make. Johnny saw an opportunity once he made some space between him and the defenders to take a shot and he did. He easily could have thrown the ball away from there, threw it to the RB that just leaked out, OR tried to run it.

He threw a bomb. Pretty low risk. If it's picked off, it's more than likely just like if we punted it. If it's incomplete, it's the same as throwing it out of bounds. It we connect, game over.

I agree with a lot of what you say, Django. But I think you're way off base on your analysis of this play. JM didn't break early looking to scrabmle, he didn't make some crazy ill advised throw into double coverage, he didn't throw it up for grabs.

I didn't criticize the throw and neither did I say he scrambled to run. The problem I see is bolting from the pocket the way he did at the time of the game he did. A more athletic and instinctual LB could have anticipated the move (could have been Mingo chasing him, not very good path) and boom, ball is lose with a highway to the endzone behind it. It's not smart to spin to your backside there, in that situation of the game

Yeah the smarter thing to do would be to stay put and take a direct hit from two 300# linemen.

Wish I could agree, but I can't.

IMO, plays like that one are exactly why he was drafted in the first place. If he stayed in the pocket (and got creamed), he'd be exactly like all the other stiffs we've had under center. He was a game manager, which you liked. He was a playmaker when we needed him to be, which I liked. Sounds to me like he was exactly what we needed.

You may be right about MM being ahead of JM, but I see no reason to doubt that Manziel will continue to improve. Listen, I want a QB who can play within the game plan, yet still make things happen when plays break down. That's the very definition of the kind of QB we've been looking for since '99. I'm NOT yet saying that Manziel is that QB... but Django- I'll take 6 points over a throwaway any day. In 4 seconds, kid took ALL the pressure off the D to win the game, which is a 180-degree turnaround from the usual Browns games we've seen. I actually appreciated that... and I'm sure there were some D players who appreciated it, too.


.02

escapes a sack only 1 or 2 qbs in the league could avoid and delivers a 50 yard dagger and folks find fault with it lol. pathetic attempts to prove their hateraide.

I love Manziel, was happy when we drafted him, and have been calling for him to be the starter the entire off-season. This is not true. I can think of Rodgers, Wilson, Roethlisberger, Newton, Kaepernick, Mariota, Romo, and Luck, can all make that same play.

I've watched all of those QBs play for years. Full games. I'll give you Rodgers, Wilson, and Romo. And possibly Newton.

It wasn't just the pirouette. It was having the quickness to reset his feet, square up, and deliver the strike before being hit. When he decided he wanted to throw it, all those actions happened very quickly. I thought that was impressive. Kaepernick is too long, both his body and windup to throw. And I think Roeth and Luck are too big. They aren't nimble guys.

And before anyone gets crazy, it's just one play. He's not better than those guys. But I said yesterday I think there are maybe 5 guys who could have made that play. If Manziel can improve the rest of his game and sprinkle in these types of plays, we may have something.

I think that this is the most that can be said of Manziel's day yesterday.


Some folks are making WAY too much of it, and there are some haters that are WAY too reluctant to give the kid his due. He made a few spectacular plays, but there was also an awful lot of ho-hum and headscratching.


#ItsAProcess #heBattled

Right. JM still has a lot to learn but he is improving and that is encouraging. If Josh is healthy he should play imo because he seems to have a better grasp of the O at this point just based on his experience and what the coaches seemed to have felt naming him the starter. We'll see.