DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pet on the QB Situation

I agree that McCown did not EARN the job and that he has sucked for a long time.

Yup, works for me too!

Well, the train finally got downtown and I'm walking to the baseball game. Until next time!

I'm not sure I understand. You mean his 13 years in the NFL, knowledge of Flips offense, and knowledge of the game doesn't count? If he truly is useless, he is one hell of magician to play this long in the NFL.

I get your point, but Johnny had one good game and look good in preseason. What happens in a couple of weeks when the schedule starts looking like the Jets every week?

I think people think McCown stuck for being good...he stuck in the league because there are alot of bad backup qbs, he among them, he happens to be the skinniest kid at fat camp. He had to play in the CFL for Gods sake.. Those thinking McCown at 36 is going to give us anything Johnny can't other than coaching and helping him in the film room are fooling themselves.. We're not going to the Superbowl this year. This is the most important offseason for both the coaches and FO, you better have a crystal clear idea of what you need in the offseason. Only thing you get by playing McCown is muddy water.

Find out what you have in JFF, play him while everyone's healthy, coach the crap out of him and just see..just about all teams do this now..the days of letting a QB sit like Rodgers is over. Just let him play, give him things he can do during the game, coachable moments always and just let him play.

People talk knowledge of Flips offense, he's a rookie OC, its not like he's a seasoned OC, and from what we've seen its pretty vanilla. Manziel has been in it just as long as Josh has.

I think something maybe other people may have seen too, but I truly think that JFF having the elbow issue really screwed up the plan for pettine, I think they really wanted him to have a good showing the last 2 games of preseason and probably would have named him the starter.

What?

Fine bugs...........you believe that starting McCown will help the Browns long-term more than starting JM. I believe the opposite.

We disagree. No big deal.

No where I stated long-term, thank you!

Okay.................so unless you think the Browns are going to go deep into the playoffs this year, why the hell would you start Josh?

From what I have seen of Flips offense he is fantastic in game planning but his adjustments are lacking. They script the first 15 to 20 plays and those are awesome but after that yea its not pretty.

I think thats true about this coaching staff in general...we seem to to no ability to make in game adjustments

Winning brings happiness! If I, the HC, feel I win this game with McCown...he plays. Otherwise, I'm not running a training camp. It isn't fair to my vets. It isn't fair to my organization. It isn't fair to the fans.

J/C ....

I look at it like this;

Manziel grew a lot from last year ti this year, and again from his 1st appearance this year to his 1st start this past Sunday.

He still has things to work on, especially pocket awareness and holding onto the ball in the pocket. I don't know that he improves in these areas while sitting on the sidelines, watching the game.

He definitely ha improved in his reads, and I think that he will continue to improve if he is on the field to improve. I opined earlier that Manziel might just be one of those guys who improved on the field far faster than he does sitting on the sidelines watching. I still believe that to be true. He has also improved in the fact that he is not avoiding the big hits when he runs. He is sliding right away, instead ot trying to get every single last inch, and getting destroyed at the same time.

I just see so much improvement so far, and I think that is from being on the field, doing the work. I think that he is rapidly moving into position to be better than McCown, and this week offers a beatable opponent, at least regarding their defense. I just don't see Pettine putting McCown back on the game when he can offer Manziel a bit of an easier game in which to continue learning.

I see your point, but I disagree because I think JM gives us a better chance to win than McCown and JM has a possible future w/the team and Josh does not.

I can't argue to much against. What I don't know...How good is this offense with McCown? How much Johnny really knows? How handicapped is the offense with Johnny?

We saw a reminder what happens to a QB who is not up to speed. Mariota played a hell of game Sunday. You think he's got 14 more weeks left? He saw Cleveland and Tampa. In my opinion, a hell of way to treat your franchise QB.

You might be jumping the gun a bit with that statement. At this point we're only talking about who starts game 3.

If we go with McCown that doesn't mean he gets the nod for the next 13 games regardless of how he plays.

I think he'll give reason to make the switch sooner than later and JF will have plenty of time to show us what he's got.

The last thing this team needs is another musical QB season. Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Winston and Marriota all got the start pretty much out of the gate without having to look over their shoulders. Sure it's gonna be ugly some games for these guys but that's the growing pains. We need to pick a starter and stick with him no matter what. There's nothing more Johnny can learn on the bench, now is his time.

I for one think its important Johnny not be the starter this season. The Browns are obviously trying to change how he approaches the game. They have coached some nice changes in him. Often under high pressure situations a QB will revert to old ways if he has not been built up the right way for long enough. He is still unlearning some bad habits and that simply take some time to go through. If he is put under fire too much then he might just abandon what he was taught this off season and undo the work that has been done. It takes about 10,000 reps to make a permanent change in behavior. Give Johnny some time to learn and it will benefit him.

I would however prob start johnny this next game just due to josh not having gotten much work since he got hurt. It's better to switch at QB when you can give them a full week of practise for the game IMHO.

I'm on board with this. I think Pet can justify starting Manziel this week by like you said, not wanting to make a change at QB w/o giving them a full week. Further, unless Johnny has a blowout game against the Raiders, I thinke we can win, and Pet would still be justified going back to McCown in Week 4.

To those who think I'm crazy, let's say Johnny has a repeat performance of this past weekend. Does some good things, but still puts the ball on the ground... how can you justify leaving him in week after week when he still hasn't cleaned that up?

To those who think Johnny should continue to start.. how long do you leave him in? The rest of the season? What if he's having a game like Cinci last year? Do you still play him the following week? Do you yank him at the half? IF he starts to regress, or plateaus his progress... what then? When do you factor in the needs of the other 52 guys on the roster?

All of your reasons are valid, but this one alone seals it for me.

We are not going anywhere this year. If nothing else, we need to come out of this year knowing whether or not we need a different QB going forward.

I'm just glad we are not reading or hearing anything about the team not wanting Manziel to start. There was so much more to Thomas coming out last year and advocating for Hoyer than we realized. Then to have the team blatantly lay down because of Manziel...wow, the problems ran deep.

Here's Mike Freeman of bleacher report talking about then and now. People should check this out.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/25708...his-life-around

Really hard to say considering we've only seen McCown for one drive...

This is what I think... if we can have a decent run game, play decent defense, and keep the penalties to a minimum either can win.... if we can't do those things, neither can win.

Browns announce McCown will start

Posted by Mike Florio on September 23, 2015, 9:13 AM EDT

Johnny Manziel won’t be getting a chance to win his second straight game. At least not from the outset.

The Browns have announced that quarterback Josh McCown has been cleared to play after suffering a concussion 10 days ago. The Browns also have announced that McCown will start.

McCown suffered a concussion on the team’s first offensive series, after completing five of eight passes for 49 yards. He also added 23 yards rushing.Manziel, in the second start of his career, completed eight of 15 passes for 175 yards, with a pair of long touchdown passes to Travis Benjamin.

On Tuesday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, Benjamin talked about both of those plays and other stuff regarding Manziel and the Browns.
L

absolutely the wrong decision, to me this further cements my feelings that this staff is clueless..we gain nothing by going to mccown. When he gets hurt again on the second drive because he's short bussed it again, JM will have to come in cold, with no reps again..

McCown will start... Well then, there goes my "Manziel fever" feeling!

If Josh still plays a bit on the reckless side perhaps we'll see Johnny again, sooner than later.

He's done nothing to lose the starter's job. Actually, he's done almost nothing at all except nearly get his head turned to mush being too aggressive running the ball. But that's not the point.

He's still probably a bit better QB than Manziel. I think that will change with time. I don't know that Manziel is the long-term answer but right now the team has short-term needs. They need wins. Manziel will get his opportunity again. At least I'm not dreading that day like taking yet another beating for being a Browns fan.

A question to those who have the ability to go to more games than I do, and I know we have some regulars on here... We all know that many in attendance are not the most knowledgeable or rational folks in the world...

What are the odds that at the first sign of struggling, the first INT, the first 3 and out... that the boo birds come out for McCown because of all the people who just want to see Manziel?

When it happens Johnny mania will be at a fever pitch once again.

I know I'll certainly be yelling at my TV set!

I disagree. We have plenty to gain by going w/ McCown. IMO installing a new offense is significantly more important than "seeing what we have".

McCown is obviously not an all-pro, but he's seen mountains more than Manziel has in the NFL. So in the QB room, when Flip goes over the previous game plan, goes over next weeks game plan, and asks his QB's what did "you see on tape and on the field?" guess who is going to be able to provide more usable feedback and input?

If we had an established OC, then I'd tend to agree more with you. Manziel isn't the only player on this team who benefits from McCown's experience.

We are Cleveland.
I'd put the chances at 101%.

Pete Prisco said it best on twitter when it was announced..." What a Browns thing to do, its why the browns are the browns"

What I find funny, is people talk about Manziel not being "There" yet, assuming there being a starting caliber Qb...i guess one could def. say the same thing about McCown

McCown has been in the league since 2002. We know what he is.

the more I think about the more I'm not sure if McCown should start. On one hand he earned it and has the teams confidence. On the other hand JF has played well and is growing into the job. Well either way you can always put JF in if Josh falters. I hope Josh does not get hurt again.

Pettine's choice was McCown for 2015. Barring injury or a complete breakdown in McCown.... Pettine has to stick with his decisions as a HC in the NFL, or he need's to find another job.

That's a very tough question for me to answer. I'm not in practice every day to know the gap between the two QB's. If I were, it would be an easy answer for me to make an educated opinion about. All I really have to base an opinion on is one drive by McCown.

On that drive I believe he was 4-4 and lead this team to a sustained drive. While I don't believe that's enough for me to base an opinion on, he seemed to have very good command of the offense.

What I do know is that this FO and coaching staff thought he was a good candidate to run this O. I know at this time they have more confidence in McCown.

Who really gives us the best chance to win now? I really have no idea.

I've gone from "Bust!" last year to if he continues to stay clean & sober he's gonna be our guy. I just got a feeling.