DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pet on the QB Situation

Right. But they still weren't in the meeting room for hours helping each other out like we all hope McCown is doing with Manziel.

It was quite well known that Farve didn't do much mentoring, especially after Rodgers called him Grandpa

So I finally had a chance to go back and watch all 17 drop-backs:
besides the 8 completions:

FIRST HALF
1. Hit Hartline right in the face mask on 3rd and 7. Hartline should have caught this one. It was a good throw.
2. Deep pass down the middle into double coverage. Darn lucky this wasn't intercepted. - NEGATIVE PLAY
3. Threw out of bounds on 3rd and 13. No one open, glad he didn't force anything.
4. 2nd and 6, no one blocks Orakpo off the edge and Manziel tried to get it to the fullback, who dropped it. Wouldn't have gone for much but still better than a sack.
5. 3rd and 6, TN blitzes and JM throws to where he thinks Benjamin should be...TB does not pick up the hot read.
SECOND HALF
6. 3rd and 7, TN blitzes off the corner, Manziel escapes but no one is available so he throws it away.
7. 2nd and 10, Bowe short-arms one. A better receiver makes that catch.
8. 3rd and 10, Manziel is sacked and fumbles. NEGATIVE PLAY
9. 3rd and 5, Manziel is sacked and fumbles again. NEGATIVE PLAY

So of those 9 other drop backs, 3 of them were negative plays. The fumbles are the most obvious and could have been disastrous. The deep ball into double coverage isn't the worst thing in the world...an interception there is like a punt downed at the 5...but still not a great decision. His only "bad" throw of the game.

6 of those plays were relatively good decisions by either making a good throw or throwing it away to avoid a sack.

This play was ridiculous. Manziel jumped backwards and like two feet of the ground to get this throw off.

Well, yes and no. I agree that we have no way to know if there plan is the correct one or not. And I do agree if you look at it in terms of an entire regime, you are also correct. But when it comes to Pettine, I believe he is the strongest link in the chain. Too early for me to say whether he will be a good NFL HC or not, but to this point I've seen nothing glaring that says he can't be.



I'm not sure either.



While I may have stated it a little differently, I don't really disagree with your premise here either. I'm still not sure how Pettine fits into this. Unless you feel it's Pettine telling Farmer exactly which players to sign.



My prediction of a 6-10 record for the season tends to agree with you.

I did see you post something to the effect of people saying we must trust Pettine and his decisions. And I agree with you that we haven't seen enough to trust him. Trust is something earned, not given.

But what I will say is that a strong leader does not suddenly abandon his plan. He has seen both QB's since training camp began. If anybody has the complete body of evidence to evaluate which QB should start based on the O they wish to run, it's our coaching staff.

Whether that's the right decision or not remains to be seen. So while to me it's not really a matter of trust, it's more a matter of waiting to see the result of their choice.

Like you, I think it would be more beneficial in the long run to simply play JFF. I also understand that a coaching staff must have a plan and stick with it rather than make a quick and rash decision to change that plan. I can understand how ball security would play into their decision.

So far I'm not going to lump Pettine in with FO people and include him in with the "regime" tag. I have to let this thing play out before that happens.

Not really trying to question your opinion in so much as I'm explaining mine.

I don't think I included any kind of specificity with how I hope McCown is helping Manziel.

I think my bottom line is that I think/hope/desire that Manziel sitting and learning would help him develop a la Romo or Rodgers. Some of that being from his own intellect, and some being from brain-picking.

That was a good post and I actually agree w/most of what you are saying.

I think I get frustrated after I read so many ridiculous posts. I am thinking....no way can these guys believe this crap. So, I come back kinda strong. Like GM saying.....take away Johnny's two bombs and he didn't play a good game. WTF? Why in the hell would you take them away? Jesus!

You made good points.

It was nicer to say take away those two passes than to say listen folks who know nothing about the game of football. Excuse me for trying to be nice. Let me ask you this Vers. If Crooms nailed two 60 yard field goals last week but missed 7 other shorter field goals would you be sticking up for people who were saying what a great game he had? Of course you wouldn't as those are so plain to see that even Stevie Wonder couldn't miss seeing it. I was pointing out all the mistakes he made last week that so many people either didn't want to see, just ignored, were to drunk to remember, or just don't know any better.

I like to believe that I know a little bit about football, bro. I saw good things and I'm not even a JM lover. Heck, I get ripped on here for saying we should have taken Teddy over JM.

I just never liked omitting plays. It's like when Butch said something about take away J. Lewis' two long runs and we didn't do that bad. LOL bro.......that doesn't make sense to me.

Then again, maybe I am clueless and don't know football like the rest of you guys.

As of right now, most would probably agree we should have taken Teddy (or Carr/Garappolo) over Manziel..

The problem most have is your need to seemingly bring it up in literally every thread..

I understand why you do it, because the people that made that decision are still in charge obviously..

All we can do is hope for the best. I guess.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to make a good argument for Garroppolo over Manziel right now... At least Manziel has an NFL win.

I think GM saying 'take away' those 2 TDs started another side-subject. It may have been better for his explanation had he said, 'other than' those 2 TDs.

It may mean the same thing or can be taken the same way as 'take away', but I think by saying 'other than' it would have brought the focus for the discussion on the rest of JFs play rather than bringing the focus on the 'take away' subject.

Funny how words make a difference, eh?

Wasn't that said from the very beginning? Teddy was more likely to become a starter because he played in a pro style offense in college. Johnny had more potential if given two or three years. Many here said Browns passes on Manziel because of the time factor. To me, many guessed right on both players.

You pro Teddy backers, and this is a real question, do you feel Bridgewater makes the downfield TD throws Manziel threw last two games? I really don't know Teddy well enough whether he has the arm strength or not.

and how often I trip over the use of them

OK I finally got my wife away from the Lifetime movie crap for a few hours lol



3:30 to go in the first half.Johnny nine yards behind the line of scrimmage, puts his head down and takes off running (His eyes should have been down field were he would have seen Crow 9 yards ahead of him and open, and passed to him.

2:20 left in the 1st quarter. Johnny misses seeing a wide open Gabriel, and tries to force a pass into Hartline who was very well covered on the play.

14:27 left in the 2nd quarter Deep throw into double coverage to Gabriel on a 2nd down and 13

14:19 left in the 2nd quarter Johnny throws the ball away, not seeing a wide open TE (I couldnt make out of it was Dray, or Barnidge) 13 yards down field on a 3rd and 13 play.

1:55 to go in the second quarter Bad throw to Gabriel. Off target with the throw and Gabriel once again not even noticing a wide open Barnidge on the play.

11:30 left in the 3rd quarter Johnny miss a wide open Hartline behind the defense, and throws the ball away.

6:35 left in the 3rd quarter Johnny stares down Bowe then makes a bad throw to him while he was surround by 5 defenders.

6:30 left in the 3rd quarter... fumble

.15 seconds left in the 3rd quarter Johnny's second fumble.

He had 18 throws not 17. Maybe you didn't count the one 3:30 to go in the first quarter when Johnny took off running?

lol. every one of those using ur words is negative. haha. reason why i stopped posting on here.

There is no way he actually believes all of that.

I just hope that if McCown ends up starting the whole season and we have another 4-6 win season, Farmer doesn't knee jerkon drafting another QB in round 1 without giving his previous investment a shot to lead the team. If that scenario plays out, Farmer deserves to be fired for his ineptitude! Where he stands with me...I wouldn't put it past him.

If Manziel never gets his shot this year and the team falters, I hope we go after an elite WR for once and actually put some weapons at his disposal next year. We'll have to see how this thing plays out, I suppose.

I'd expect Manziel to take over for McCown the minute our playoffs hopes are gone.

One would hope that's what would happen if we are out of the race. I hope this time on the bench really helps him mature and understand the game. I'm sure all of us would like to put the QB position to bed and not have to worry about it in a long time. Since 99, I've been a tired man seeing the same debates over and over again.

Yes every one was negative. I was pointing out the mistakes not every damn one of his throws. Damn maybe you should read everything instead of assuming things bro.

I think you dropped these

Hmmmmmmmmm............

How much longer do we still have to see McCown start, Mike Pettine?

I'm ready for the change NOW. (Actually, last week!)

Pet is gonna stick with McCown. He will probably do just enough to get us another 5 win season and then we will still be wondering is Johnny good enough to start for us or do we need to draft a QB.

I agree. His pride will keep him from putting in Manziel.

Then again, he was right last year keeping him from playing, but this certainly seems like a different person this year.

There's no way he can go back to Manziel.

The defense was more at fault than McCown today, and he publicly said there would be no short leash.

The only thing that gets Manziel on the field is if his boss demands it.

Which is why he's on our team in the first place.

Im of the opinion that we have to play him just to see his progress ... I don't want April to roll around without us knowing if Johnny can play

What was the deal on McCown's XRays after the game. This from ESPN

What? Speak on what?

This freaking team......

He can easily go back to McCown, but it will take a game where McCown self destructs.

He did not play well in any way, shape, or form today, bt he did bring the team back, and that will probably get him further starts.

However, if McCown has another bad game or 2, with mots of missed opportunities, then Pettine can easily go back to Manziel if he wants, and just say that "He worked on the things we wanted him to", and "He showed real improvement in those areas of concern, and we felt he earned it with his hard work."

I honestly don't think McCown was that bad today.

But I just don't see the point in playing him. It's so far beyond dumb it defies any logic at all.

McCown's numbers were good.

He just left a lot of points on the board.

Wonder if GM will break down those plays and be as critical w/his analysis as he was w/Johnny? LOL

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he played that good either, but it wasn't awful.

I was a little surprised at some of the inaccuracy.

There's just zero point in playing him, though. Why? So Thomas and Hartline don't get mad? So Dansby and Whitner don't get mad? I think it's so silly. You always play your future guy to see what you have. Always.

There has to be something deeper going on, IMO.

I was agreeing w/you.

You don't have to wait until April. He can't.

McCown is the better option and gives us a better chance to win. That's sad b/c McCown sucks....but he's still better than Johnny.

The real travesty was us drafting him to begin with.

We'll be either drafting a QB or looking for another FA in 2016. Bank on it.

Whether or not drafting him was a mistake is insignificant right now ... but we might as well play him IMO. Even if he has a 0.00001% chance of being the answer at QB, it's still better than McCown's chance at being our future.

Breaking down the QB with the win and building up the QB with the loss. It's what we do here.