DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavaliers Off-Season Continues

This is not what he was talking about at all.

He was saying that he doesn't regret the decisions about his injuries because he was protecting his family. Nothing wrong with that.

Do we want our athletes to be honest or do we want the same tired cliches?

we've talked about that before.

fans say they're "tired" of players just saying the company line.

the moment a player says the truth, everybody rips them.

So what people want, and the reality is two different things.

I think thats a pretty good possibility, Mo is a pure PG that can score...Kyrie is a 2 with crazy handles...Problem would be matchups with bigger guards, but I think the beginning of the season we will see alot of lineups with Kyrie/shump being out. Looks like Love and Timo were full go today..no contact, but still good to hear

Between Kyrie, Love, Andy and Iman ... we might just want to trade the farm for Phoenix's training staff.

I know you are messing around, but it's a pretty good point.

I really like Blatt and hate top get on his case because for awhile, so many were on him.

But, I think it is really important for Blatt to keep a keen eye on minutes this year. Distribute them w/an eye on the playoffs.

It's still no guarantee, but that doesn't mean we should ignore it.

Did anyone see where J.R. Smith said he opted out to help the team by taking less money?

David Blatt: 'I didn't always realize how much I had to learn' | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2015/09/david_blatt_i_didnt_always_rea.html#incart_big-photo

INDEPENDENCE, Ohio -- Cleveland Cavaliers head coach David Blatt sauntered up to the stage, grabbed his seat next to general manager David Griffin and prepared to answer questions from the assembled media. It was officially the start of a new journey for Blatt, his sophomore campaign that begins with a new perspective.

"I didn't always realize how much I had to learn about the game here and about the ways of the game here," Blatt admitted Monday about his first season. "I did go through that, and I feel that I'm starting the season in a much better place and certainly more confident in understanding the things that I need to do and the situations that I'm going to face. That's a good feeling."

In Blatt's first season, he took his team to the NBA Finals, leading his shorthanded squad to two wins against the favored Golden State Warriors. Yet despite his first-year success and staunch support from his peers, the NBA proved to be a tough teacher.

He dealt with rumors about his coaching future that swirled following a slow start. His personality peeved the players in the locker room. Numerous questions popped up internally and externally about his rotations. Even his offensive system, predicated on snappy ball movement and immense spacing that was once referred to as "borderline genius" by Mike Miller, appeared to be shelved in the regular season as the Cavs shifted to an attack focusing more on isolations with LeBron James and Kyrie Irving.

Then, of course, there was the scrutiny that surrounded his relationship with James, a partnership that Blatt admits is still a work in progress.

"I think the most important thing is that both LeBron and myself are about the very same thing," Blatt said. "And my ability to help him reach his goals and help him find a way to be the best and most efficient leader that he can be is what my job with him is all about."

Over the summer, Blatt saw James a few times, meetings that Blatt characterized as "great" before downplaying their significance.

"I don't know how important that is in the grand scheme of things, but you're talking about coaching arguably the greatest player this game has ever known, and that relationship is always evolving," Blatt said. "It's something you sort of work at every single day, and find the right ways for us both to help this team come to the place that we want to bring it to."

Blatt's at-times choppy maiden voyage is behind him and he can finally shed the title of "rookie head coach," a label he vehemently rejected last year.

Entering his second year, he has more wisdom and a better understanding of what it takes to be successful in the NBA.

"I think confidence stems from experience," he said. "It stems from preparation. It stems from belief in what you do and what you're about. I always feel like I've had those things, but certainly I had a lot to learn."

Just like his rookie campaign, the expectations are lofty in Cleveland. They always are with a talented roster led by the game's most transcendent talent. The Cavaliers, fresh off a trip to the NBA Finals, have been named the favorite in the Eastern Conference once again, and rightfully so. The core that came two wins from an NBA title is back along with new additions Richard Jefferson, Mo Williams and Sasha Kaun, a trio expected to help bolster the team's porous second unit.

"Our goals are clear and are stated, but not guaranteed," Blatt said. "It's important for all of us to not overstate but to overachieve. I am anxious to get started on our journey."

What lies ahead is unpredictable, the NBA quest littered with land mines. The Cavaliers and Blatt specifically, a beleaguered coach who spent much of last year in denial about the NBA challenge, learned that harsh lesson.

There's a different attitude heading into training camp, a promising first step in hopes of a less turbulent sophomore expedition.

I know this sounds odd, but I really feel for the guy. He's in a tough spot.

I wish LeBron would not be so hard-headed and instead buy into Blatt's system. I'm telling you guys this........getting Love made Blatt's offense almost unstoppable.

You got LeBron seeing over the top of defenses. Kyrie cutting and spotting up. Love posting up and spotting up. TT cleaning up misses. Floor spacing. Decent shooters. Some slashers. Damn........it could be beautiful basketball. The isolation crap sucks the life out of us. Yeah, it works because LBJ is so great, but man, we could be so much better......

It's one of my biggest peeves with Lebron and why imo Jordan will always be the GOAT. Jordan allowed himself to be coached, he bought in to the offense and was a big part of why it was successful. Lebron thinks he knows it all already because of all they hype he got from the time he was in HS, i HATE iso ball, its the ugliest form of basketball in the world even when it is working. I love movement ball, pnr, drive and kick...watching SA is something beautiful.

LeBron didn't go back to Cleveland to have people tell him what to do. One of the reasons he went back is because he knew he would have free reign.

not going to lie, I thought the TT deal would be resolved today.

There's still a few more hours on the clock.

So laying in bed watching the news last night (Live in florida and it was Orlando news) so you normally don't hear alot about cleveland related things when it comes to sports unless we played an orlando team. But the anchor said lebron James and the cleveland cavaliers are going to be broadcasting practice live this weekend on facebook, did anyone else hear something like that.

Found it, info in the link

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba...ebook/73029806/

LOL, I saw this line from Bruce Hooley:

Someone needs to tell Tristan Thompson this game of high-stakes blackjack he’s been playing with the Cavaliers is over. It’s time to collect his winnings, get up from the table and report for work. To continue to squeeze management with his ridiculous salary demands is akin to Thompson hitting on 20 when he already drew an ace from the dealer after hitting on 19.

Well said lol!

Thompson would lose what .... $6 to $8 million this year by signing the qualifying offer? He would have to make more than that in his next deal, above and beyond what he would make on this year's current offer. That's a big risk to take, when he has already lost (if getting $75 million or so offer can be called a loss) on the current offer. Plus, he would lose all protection against injury.

I understand that these guys want to feel like they are the best players on their teams .... but really .... is Thompson worth what Kevin Love is? Or Kyrie?

There comes a time where you have to accept victory in the way you can. At least Thompson's lesson won't be as harsh as JR's was. He'll still have a nice deal to sign.

That said, I expect that the Cavaliers and Thompson's agent will arrive at a slight increase over what is currently offered,. and Thompson will sign.

[quoteI understand that these guys want to feel like they are the best players on their teams][/quote]

Could you please provide a link for that comment? I don't recall hearing TT say it, but I'll gladly apologize after you show me where he actually said that and you aren't just making crap up.

Thanks in advance.

Considering that he's asking for a contract larger than what Kyrie has, he's certainly implying it.

Thank you.

There is a saying that actions speak louder than words, and TT's actions are definitely saying that.

I hope that he signs a 4 or 5 year deal today, but not for what he was asking. He is a useful player, but he is not a superstar, and teams wind up in salary trouble when they start paying useful players like superstars.

It seems like we should recall that from Lebron's 1st time around, when we dumped money on Larry Hughes (IIRC, it was Hughes).....

Teams have to be smart when it comes to money, and cannot handicap themselves by overspending on role players and backups. It is fine to pay a player fairly, but no team can pay 5 players top level salaries and remain successful for long. Their hands are going to be tied in really short order if they do. The Cavaliers are going to have to pay Moz a top level salary, or close to it, next year, and he will deserve it. He is a top defender, and he has an offensive game. (even though he occasionally absolutely blows a shot in comedic fashion)

The cap is going up, but the team still has to manage its finances properly.

Another interesting angle to note ... I saw some articles suggest he could forgo the Qual Offer and just hold out. That would be a pretty dumb move on his part. He wouldn't get paid at all until he signed something and he would have no fall back option like the QO if he didn't see a contract he liked. The Cavs would still have Restricted FA rights on him and could match any offer sheet a team made for him. Most importantly, if he were to go the entire year without signing a contract, he would still be a Restricted Free Agent again next year.

I think the Cavs have kind of accepted that they are going all-in for the next 4 to 5 years to bring home a couple championships and then they will have to blow up whatever is left.

there will be no transition out of this, no soft landing..

Ahhh.....got it. TT never said it. It was implied.

Somehow, you guys keep forgetting about the changes to the salary cap next year and what that means to the guys who are RFA's this year.

I posted an article or two on it, but of course, no one replied to those articles.

Let's just post about TT thinking he should be paid like the best player on the team, because that makes a lot more sense.

one of the things I look at too is consider Kawhi Leonard as an example. Many would agree probably one of the main, if not main pieces SA has. He just signed an extension this summer for 5/90. TT wants 5/94. I think we can agree which player is actually worth that number

Let's just cut TT. He thinks he is the best player on the team. He has no real value. He can't score if you locked him in a gym alone. He is pretty much worthless and we will be much better off w/out him.

Damn, y'all kill me w/your "logic."

I have never seen such a productive player take more abuse than you guys give him. It's funny, because when I talk w/the guys that I used to coach with and my brother's group [he still coaches] they all LOVE TT.

But you guys know so much more. Pffftttt

Your key word is value, yes he's valuable, but at what price, that is the point most of us are saying..he's now at the point he's hurting the team more than helping. Yes, you can lock TT in a gym and he'd score...to about the tune of 8 ppg..lol, kidding aside, Having played and coached in college, I like to think Im pretty good at evaluation of talent. TT is what we call a glue guy, much like delly, you don't give glue guys 94 million. I really hope something gets done before the deadline, if TT and his camp hold out, then good riddance. I think the cavs have been quite fair with him.

If anyone caught the Live practice today that was on NBAtv/facebook, they asked Griffin if they would extend the deadline, he said no, they would have already would have done so, so come tomorrow he's officially a hold-out. But Griff seemed optimistic he'd be in camp one way or another tomorrow. If I was to guess, probably on a shorter deal

Yeah, that's what we were saying.

I love Thompson. Heck, I defended him pretty much by myself prior to this past year. No one is saying that they want him gone. What we are saying is that, in the larger scheme of the NBA, a guy averaging 8 PPg and 8 RPG, who is an average defender at best, usually does not get a max deal, and cannot do so on a team that is already a taxpayer.

I suppose we enter the proverbial "11th" hour in 15 minutes

Yeah, that's exactly what everyone is saying.

Why are you always so melodramatic? Nobody has said anything close to any of that.



Coaches also love Delly, he's a productive player, does a ton of dirty work and was just a big a part of the playoff run as TT was last season. If he stomps his feet into the ground and demands a max contract ... are you giving it to him? Why not?

Interesting. I'm wondering if he lets the deadline pass and goes into full hold-out mode. He would basically set himself up to be a restricted free agent again next year. I'm not sure that helps him, unless the Cavs have to hold a roster spot open for him (which I don't think they do).

Maybe he's banking on Love or Andy getting hurt early, and the Cavs desperately signing him to a max deal to fill the void? Otherwise, he'd sit out a year, lose an entire year's worth of salary. only to break even next year if someone actually signs him to a max, which the Cavs could then match anyway.

Looks like he's officially let the QO expire. Now he's a holdout. Not exactly sure what he expects to get now. The ONLY way he gets what he wants is if the Cavs get desperate and reluctantly give him a max.

Otherwise, he's going to:
1) Sit unpaid for up to a year
2) Watch the Cavs win without him anyway
3) Be a Restricted Free Agent again next year
4) Find out quickly that a career 10/8 guy that sat out an entire year is probably not going to get anything close to a max deal
5) Watch the Cavs match his best offer anyway.

We could also trade his right now if we wanted to because he doesn't have the no-trade protection that the QO gave him.

I don't think TT and Dellly are similar players. I know that you can say that neither are good scorers, but that is where it ends.

TT is valuable. His rebounding and defense are very important to this team. His length and explosive jumping are important.

I fully understand he is not the flashy scorer. I understand his range is limited. Very limited. But, championship teams need a guy like TT. We have 3 guys who want and need the ball. LeBron, Love, and Kyrie. JR Smith also wants his shots. Having a guy who gets your team extra possessions, can defend the pick and rolls, protects the rim, finish on lobs, and NOT demand that he gets the ball more is invaluable and a far cry from Delly. TT absolutely dominated Milsap and ATL's other bigs. Earlier the season, many people were talking about the Hawk's inside advantage as to why they would beat the Cavs in the playoffs. TT was the one constant throughout the playoffs. His game never changed. He was productive down to the bitter end. He never gave up. I think that his first year or two here might have soured some of you on him, but the guy is truly evolving as a player and it amazes me that more people [here] didn't recognize that during the playoffs. I keep reading about his career numbers as if he is--and will always be--the same player he was when he was a rookie. Sorry, but that is not true.

I also think that of all our bigs----TT is the least likely to get injured. He has one of those body types that endures. HE is very wiry. That's natural strength.

Look, the cap is changing next year. I have posted about that and can't seem to get any discussion on it. You guys seem to be ignoring that fact and keep harping on being a max player this year. I imagine the cap will continue to evolve.

The Cavs window is not going to be open forever. I think TT is very important in our quest for winning championships. Now, you may not agree w/that and that's fine, but I am speaking personally........I see him as extremely important if we want to win a championship or championships w/in the next three to four years. After that? Who really cares? I would rather the Cavs do all they can to win a championship the next 3 to 4 years than worry about the freaking cap [when I am not even sure it's THAT big of a deal anyway] after LeBron is gone and we are going to have to start over anyway.

Sometimes, I wonder if it is the loser mentality that haunts Cleveland. People worrying about the cap when we can win NOW. Last year, it was people worrying about the future when we could win now by acquiring Love. I still say it was a good move because we got to the Finals and if he and Kyrie had stayed healthy, it would be us--rather than GS--that would be World Champions.

I want a championship. I want a chance at multiple championships. The owner is going to make his money no matter what. He's already reaping the rewards of bringing LeBron in. There are ways around the cap. Teams have proven that for years.

With all that said..........I wish that TT would get his butt into camp. He's going to be a rich man no matter what.

It comes down to two things, just because you can spend the money doesn't mean you should. Also, giving TT a bad contract you won't be able to trade sets a bad precedence. Its obvious the cavs feel they are ok with or without TT. I think we can with either way, obviously its easier with him, but we are stacked with bigs this year, bigs that are more rounded than TT. He needs to open his eyes and realize that few people get a chance to play in this situation. He's young, he keeps improving he'll get paid. For now, take the generous offer and prove you deserve more.

I've mentioned the cap raising several times in my posts.. I've even alluded to the best situation for both is TT to sign a deal like Lebron with a 2 year with a player option on the second, he gets paid this year, and then when the cap goes up he can resign.

*COUGH*Anderson Varejao*COUGH*

Excuse me, but did Tristan Thompson just walk away from $80M? Hope you all don't mind a very casual fan piping up, but I'm wondering if he's not too stupid to be our power forward. $80M!!

perfect example...and thats only 10m a year, and he's basically TT with better offense

Not even sure where to start with your post here ...



So your answer is no, you wouldn't give Delly a max. Why? Because he's not worth it. Delly's does all that dirty work too, so he's invaluable to the team. We would of lost several playoff games if not for his contributions last year, so why not give him whatever he demands?

I think you're missing the point entirely too. It's not that anybody thinks that TT no value to the team. the Cavs offered him an $80 million dollar contract!!! It's that TT is digging his heels in the sand and saying, "Give me everything or I'm not playing!" Does that sound like a guy that's putting the team before himself?? Delly has value to the team too, but if he demands $10 million a year and threatens to not play if he doesn't get it, are you giving it to him just "because", or are you going to try to win without him anyway?



Also to note, around December last year, we had TT and Love starting in our front-court after Andy went down with his injury. We preceded to win 2 out of our next 12 on our way to a 19-20 record. It wasn't until we traded for Moz to anchor our defense in the middle that we started to turn things around.

Now don't get me wrong, TT is *valuable* and Lebron was also injured for a stretch there ... but if TT is MAX contract worthy, and starting with two other max contract players, we shouldn't be playing .166 basketball there.



We've discussed it. It's not going up THAT much. A $17 million a year deal isn't going to suddenly be a bargain after the cap goes up. Yes TT could get a huge deal from another team with cap space, but then he's going to be a huge salary albatross for them, not us.



Oh, GMAB. The last time we tossed that "loser mentality" aside and went all in, we handed out max contracts to guys like Larry Hughes (who oddly enough, was also cashing in on ONE solid season) and gave huge, over-priced deals to Big-Z, Donyell Marshall and others. All that did was hamstring us for further dealings, which caused us to empty the cabinet of all other trade assets just to get anything done. It got to the point where Lebron realized he had to bail on the team because there was no possible way for them to get any better players.



Funny you bring that up ... For several reasons. The first being you kept pulling the same junk you are with TT now. That if we didn't want to just bend over and take whatever deal Minnesota wanted from us, then that meant we thought Love was worthless, we had no desire for him to play on our team, and nobody liked him, everyone hated him, guess we'll go eat worms.

The second being was that my biggest reservation about "trading the farm" for Love, was that it would give us a starting roster with three injury prone players. Ironically enough, it was those three players that sat on the bench in street clothes during the Finals.

Third and probably most important, most of us were just fine with making a trade for Love, we just saw no point in trading EVERYTHING we could possibly offer to get him (like you were prescribing). Had we gone with your "all-in, win now" attitude, it's likely we would of traded assets like Waiters and extra-draft picks just to get the Love trade done ASAP. Then January would of rolled around, we would of still been sitting at 19-20 and we'd have no means to make those Shumpert, Smith, Mozgov trades that turned our season around.

Finally, Love really played no massive role in getting us to the Playoffs or making our Finals run. Yes, we are a better team with him, we started playing much better at the end of the year when he found his role and I don't doubt that with Love in the lineup we probably win in the Finals ... but had we stood pat on that trade, let Minnesota sweat it out until closer to February when they knew they were going to lose Love with no compensation ... then it's possible we get Love without giving up Wiggins. Think we win that Finals with an athletic, defensive 2-guard helping Delly to chase around the Splash brothers?



I do too, but I don't think we should be mindless about it either. We give TT a max this year, and it's going to be VERY difficult to keep Mozgov next year. For me, he's a bigger key to the team.

Considering Love didn't even play after the 1st round of the playoffs, he hardly got us to the finals lol

These desperation moves don't work out in the long term.

You don't get LeBron if you don't get Love. It had to be done.