DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 20 Oakland 27 Post Game Thoughts

Why are you even going after the punt. You are gonna get the ball back in good position. Its 4th and 1. even a simple running into the kicker gets them a first. just set up your blocks and enjoy the benefits of a good defensive stop.

That's why you fire Farmer tonight. Not tomorrow tonight and move on immediately. He as been even worse than Heckert when I didn't think it was possible.

All I can say is two fifty yard gains were directly Whitners fault. The one with the fullback, he tried his usual shoulder tackle and knocked Gipson off the runner. He can't cover anybody, and misses more tackles than anybody on the team.

This defense is horrible. I blame the scheme more than anything. Constant man to man in the NFL is a QBs dream. Haden was just behind Whitner for being the worst player today. I have not seem him cover anybody good all year.

Teams have punished the Raiders with the TE, hell Barnidge was lighting them up, but they waited too long to get him involved. McCown was absolutely horrible for three quarters. Guys open everywhere and he is missing them. The Oline is not a strength, they are average at best, but McCown holds the ball forever, and when he does throw quickly, he's off target.

Trying that same run play for two quarters was driving me batty. I don't blame the backs, IMO they are both good, it is the blocking that is lacking.

McCown showed me one thing today, he can't handle adversity. He looked shaky and uncertain for most of the game. He does not feel pressure well, and takes hits unnecessary.

All in all, IMO the defense lost this game. I don't want to hear about being on the field too long, that was their fault. Kruger is still not setting the edge, and when the back turns the corner Whitner either whiffs, or the run right past him.

As bad as McCown was all day, he managed to bring us close. If the defense does anything at all, we still had a chance.

I wonder why they didn't review Benji's muff. It sure looked like he fell right on the ball, and had it pulled away from him on the ground. No review. I thought all turnovers were subject to review.

My hope for this team is over. The defense plays with no passion, and the Oline looks like a bunch of rookies. I don't usually blame Pettine much, but this team did not show up inspired to win. They are the same in game. They make a good play then blow a big one on the next. Dansby is not showing me much this year either.

My optimism is gone, I see another double digit loss season.

Exactly. It wasn't a player issue, it was a coaching issue.

All is not lost. Our true #1 WR (Invisi-Bowe) should be back next week to rescue us from this turmoil.

So we had zero sacks, 1 tackle for loss, zero qb hits.

oakland had 5 sacks, 8 tackles for a loss, 7 qb hits.

Invisi-Bowe.

I say cut him and bring back Pryor. We need somebody with big play ability

How sweet would it have been to give Chud another year, then fire him, the hire Rex Ryan?

At least we would have a team that plays hard and a coach that shows some fire.

If you don't start Manziel now, there is no plan. What is the plan for this team? Stop bowing down to guys like Thomas and Hartline. Who gives two craps what these guys think. They are paid to play, not make personnel decisions or worry about the short-term vision of the team. Tell them to shut the hell up and if they don't like it too bad.

If you don't start Manziel now, you have no plan.

And as agitated as I am, you have to stick with Pettine and Farmer. Can't turn this over again. Haslam needs to demand they start Manziel. When you lose at home to the Raiders and look like crap doing it, it's likely a wasted season. Take your lumps and let him get some experience. Focus the draft on all other positions except QB. Give Pettine and Farmer another year.

So why sign Pryor?

He could at least take the field

The Raiders do seem to have acquired quite a bit of talent.

Not sure what to think about that. I originally meant it as an excuse...as in...losing to them might not be all that bad, but then I started thinking that they sure have seemed to do a better job of upgrading their roster than Farmer and company has.

<<sigh>> Who knows........

Who knows - maybe the Raiders win even without that play but that felt like the game right there.

Other thoughts - I am now ready for JMM ... maybe I still have my rose colored spectacles on but I think JMM wins the game if he is on the field for the last drive ... it was a beautiful route by TB to get open ... and McCown could have thrown the ball to him on a line for a big play .... or gone deep and hit him for a TD. . . but he didn't and I gotta feel that 3 times out of 5 JMM hits him for the big play.

I dont think Pet can get out of his own way to coach another year and Bowe is probably the end of Farmer as well. Benching the hot hand and then having a team show up with no heart, refusing to tackle, just going through the motions. He has a chance to turn it around but we both know, this team is close to total collapse. We are talkign 1-15 type of effort today.

Signing Pryor isn't going to do anything to help this team...

We need an experienced receiver who could step in and play right away.

I'm not convinced our receivers are the problem right now. Sure, we could use a legit #1 but McCown did an OKAY job spreading the ball around today.

Today a few things really stuck out to me...

#1 - My lord does Mitchell Schwartz stink. I cannot believe he still has a job at right tackle.

#2 - Our run blocking sucks. That's it.

#3 - I really, really miss Kyle Shanahan. I knew when he left that our offense was going to suffer, and it is. His fast pace, no huddle, zone running offense was great last year. This year, our offense is slow, flat and extremely predictable. It took being down 20-3 to finally spread the field and pick up the pace a bit.

#4 - McCown started slowly, but honestly I didn't think he looked THAT bad when you consider he had ZERO run game, and the offensive line got worked early on...

#5 - The defense looked really, really lethargic. We addressed the interior of the defensive line, but now it looks like our linebackers need evaluated. None of them seem to shed blocks, or make any kind of positive impact...

All in all.

Today was a team loss all around.

I'm not screaming for McCowns beheading (yet) but I do think if we end up losing in San Diego next week (which is very possible) it would make sense to just play Manziel. I don't necessarily think he'll turn us into a winner, but he needs the experience.

It was nice that they got to focus this year's draft on non-QB positions. That helps.

If we don't let Johnny play, we will have no choice. We will have t draft a QB next year. Wash, rinse, repeat.

We could have had Buff's first, Beckham, K.Benjamin, and Carr.

I read that Carr was the #1 rated QB on Farmer's board.

the raiders offensive weapons are 10 times better than the Browns ... Carr, Murray, Crabtree, Reece, Cooper, Holmes ... wow

It was probably DAvid Carr lol

The plan appears to be self preservation. Pettine doesn't appear confident in Haslam's statement that he and Farmer were safe no matter what. That explains starting the vet.

Pettine is severely lacking in strong leadership qualities.

The plan as a whole seems ill conceived.

I don't think Johnny Manziel did enough to close the gap in the preseason and training camp, that's likely why Pettine chose to go with Josh McCown. The plan before the season was to play elite defense, and then be efficient on offense and minimize what we needed out of our quarterback. It just hasn't worked out that way yet. Mike Pettine had to consider all the veterans in the locker room when making the decision on the QB. You have to go with the guy who you think gives your team the better chance at winning, and I think McCown has/had a lot of locker room support during training camp and the preseason.

Not a lot you can do when you get limited first team snaps, and zero reps in preseason with the first team.

McCown was all but announced the starter going into preseason. There was no quarterback competition.

Johnny's problems obviously played into that, because I think the team didn't want to put that much pressure on him in training camp.

So you can fault Johnny for losing a year and part of an offseason, but don't fault him for not winning a non-existent quarterback competition in the preseason.

I said it in the Game Day thread and to anyone else around that would listen....

We have the stupidest football team in the history of the NFL. I mean, you almost have to try to put yourself into these situations. Even the worst teams can avoid it on occasion. Not the Browns.... Moth to the flame. Every. Single. Time.

This is what I believe Farmer is doing also. Just my opinion, but I think Farmer's super conservative (mostly defense) approach to the draft is what he thinks will buy him more time. Same kind of thing Holmgren/Heckert, to a smaller degree, were doing before their last draft when they pretty much knew they were goners. All it's doing is buying him a ticket out of town.

I don't think he has to at all. Screw what the veterans think. Make decisions that benefit the long-term future of your team.

45-86 - The Browns record since they drafted Joe Thomas.

Raiders were 2-22 on the road the past 4 years

That's how bad the 2015 Browns are

Shelton is terrrible. Did you see that 2&10 run after the Offense scored the first TD to get some momentum? He was completely moved out 1on1 by an OL. The hole was so big a SUV could have driven through. This is the third game opposing RBs have rushed for about 150yds on less than 30 carries. Pathetic. The run D has gotten worse under Farmer/Pettine and both share responsibilities for it. And it will get both fired. Only 13 games left.

Agreed, other than Joe Thomas the rest of the vets on the team can go cry somewhere else. Ain't a single damn "vet" on this team outside of him that deserves to be thought of. They're nothing but scrubs collecting a free paycheck. Who cares what they think?

Starting a QB that isn't ready is how you lose a locker room too...

You can't play a QB just because he needs experience, when you have a veteran who might be capable of winning right now. When you have a competitive team full of veterans (most of which are sick of losing) you have to go with the safer choice and play the guy who gives you a better chance at winning.

I'm not defending McCown. I'm being objective because I see logic in starting him.

But I am in complete agreement that Manziel needs the experience, and I think a loss in San Diego might warrant a switch at QB because Manziel DOES need the reps.

This isn't a competitive team full of vets. If there were guys in the locker room worth worrying about I'd get it.

Oh man


This really is like a Mangini team. Let your talent go. Be more concerned with vets, character and special teams players then actual talent. This is going to be a LONG season fellas.

a list of guys who I never heard doing anything positive today:


Whitner
Gipson
Haden
Gilbert
Dansby
Starks
Kruger
Mingo
Mack
Schwartz
Gabriel
Housler
Dray
Shelton
Bitonio


The list goes on and on ... a lot of high draft picks on that list too

Gipson had a nice TFL on a blitz.

Mingo made a great play for the Raiders by roughing the punter.

I'm curious how many posters like Eotab and GM Dawg can come out defend the
Job Farmer has done.
No playmakers at WR,LB.a oline built on finese.
He overpaid for a WR who scored ZERO Tds in 2014.
Signed a journeyman QB WHO IS A CAREER LOSER!

This team has to play perfect to win on Sundays. No margin for error.

see i disagree with a couple points...yes you DO start Manziel because he needs reps, thats the new standard today..noone just sits anymore, especially first round picks. You take the lumps year one and then you have an idea what you need to move forward.

As far as losing the locker room, pfft, there isn't one person in that locker room that I care to keep if they don't want to do a job they are being paid millions to do. Its not their place to influence coaching decision, its their jobs to trust the coaching decision. So if they are that fragile, than we have much bigger problems imo. McCown isn't safer by any stretch of the imagination..being a veteran and being a veteran worth anything is two different things. McCown has not shown he can do anything more than we've seen out of Manziel and he's been given much more opportunity. I promise you Manziel hits 2-3 of the 4 of those long passes and I think it would have been another win. But we went "safe" and he looked scared and lost and to be honest looked more like a rookie than Manziel has all this year.

i like how people are always like "all the vets except Thomas"

how many wins, or how much leadership has he provided, again?

they all suck.

What evidence of big play ability have you seen from pryor? I'm thinking the fact he still isn't signed should tell us all we need. I agree with the premise, just not the player..lol

Funny you should say that..I'd almost consider trading him if the price was right...ring ring..Elway? could you guys use a LT? Joe is a great pass blocker, very durable but a crappy finesse guy who can't open holes in the run game...just like the rest of the line.. I'd almost consider trading him, almost as much for his benefit as hours. All I know is theres so much futility on this team is so hard to see any light in the tunnel then alone the end of it. We need a Parcells/Cowher/Accorsi type guy to manage this for Haslam..Not a single person on our staff earned their position.

They changed the game from Browns/Raider today to Tenn/Colts on TV so I was listening on the Radio. At least 6 times, I heard the announcers say he overthrew receivers that were open and McCown was not under pressure. I don't know if that it true but it sounded like he was just 'off' for most of the game..so much so i was wondering if he was indeed having lingering affects from the concussion - maybe downfield vision or timing?

The only reason I wouldn't trade JT is that he'll be a HOF and I want him to play his entire career in Cleveland. It's a weird reason, but he's gone this far with us ... he can get through 3-5 more years

JT is not a run blocker? When do they ever try to run to the left?

we never do ... our staff thinks pulling Bitonio is his best strength, which explains why we always run to the right.

except that never works either