DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Oregon shooting: Gunman dead after college rampage

About an hour later another asserted, "Certainly this fellow was with him, for he is a Galilean." Peter replied, "Man, I don't know what you're talking about!" Just as he was speaking, the rooster crowed. The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows today, you will disown me three times." And he went outside and wept bitterly.

We have more youths in prison than anyone. What specific hate are you referring to?

I think hatred has always been present in people throughout history.

I don't know that I would call it hate, but we are doing a poor job at teaching our youth the value of self-responsibility, self respect, respect for others and human life.

And it goes beyond ingrained hate Vers.. it goes to hopelessness.. watch the news, spend some time on the internet and the social media sites kids use, see who they are following on twitter and instagram... it's all so painfully negative and hopeless.. it's all satire, it's all mocking, it's all basically "WTF is the point?"

If you are 18-24 years old, chances are that most of what you have read in your life is that your country sucks, your political process sucks, your country is racist, your entire generation is lazy, there are no good jobs for you, your future is bleak, etc... The fact that we actually have some kids come out of this with a positive attitude is honestly more surprising that the fact that many don't and see no hope for their life.

My solution is to execute every single violent criminal. Period. Crime will fall rapidly and our prison budget will greatly be reduced.

You can't put someone in a little box for 10 years and expect them to come out better than they went in. To me it's cruel and unusual punishment. It's also a waste of precious resources.

I would also execute all drug dealers. However, instead of sending drug users to jail I would just send them to a 3-6 month rehab facility.

These mass shooting would just turn into bombs or some other atrocious thing. A well armed population stop a lot more crime than it will ever cause. This is why these cowards always attack places when the other people have no guns. I mean how many mass shootings do you read about in Texas? Not very bleep many!

I do agree with you that the issue is neither gun control nor religion because this country has had both for over 200 years, yet this problem is much more recent than that.

If there's one common aspect I've seen in almost every parent over the years it's a lack of desire to want to take constructive criticism in raising their kids. "What business is it of yours in how I raise my child" and so on. Well, unless you want your child to live in your basement for its entire life, it absolutely DOES matter to me (and everyone else) because we will have to put up with these children in society. Raising a kid is incredibly tough (I'm only 9mos into it so I'm sure it's gonna get MUCH TOUGHER.) Every parent should work just a little bit harder to listen to family and friends in regards to child rearing because most of them have done it before and can provide helpful guidance. When you take it personally and don't take anyone's advice, you are at much higher risk of doing something wrong in regards to said child.

When we learn something new at work we don't get upset at other people for helping us. When we learn a new life skill we often learn it from someone else. Why are we content to assume we can raise a kid on our own without any outside advice...

67 year old troubled youth here?

http://www.whdh.com/story/30183065/police-seize-weapons-from-pelham-nh-apartment

"PELHAM, N.H. (WHDH) -
Police seized a small arsenal of weapons from a Pelham, New Hampshire apartment after responding to a reported shooting.

Neighbors said the 67-year-old suspect was naked and yelling that he had shot four people who tried breaking into his apartment. When police responded to the man's apartment, they found bullet holes in the wall and spent shell casings on the ground. No one was injured by the shots fired.

Multiple weapons were seized by police from the man's apartment after a search warrant was granted. Police seized four pistols, two rifles, a shotgun, multiple gun magazines and more than 10,000 rounds of ammunition. The man was arrested and charged with felony reckless conduct."

Our youth is being taught the gun culture by some lunatics like this. He who has more guns and ammo will be able to fight off the evil gov't and survive the coming holocaust.

No one said it was all youths.

But if you look at the mass shootings in recent news, most are by people under 30. Most are not random, spur of the moment, spontaneous reaction either.



The overwhelming majority of youth see this guy as an aging crackpot, not as a source to learn gun culture.

When I read this the first thing I thought of was either mental illness or prescription drug abuse...a couple of other problems that this country is not doing a very good job with.

It's not the overwhelming majority we should be focusing on here. It's the lone lunatics living on the fringe we need to identify and get them help rather then guns.

Very good read from NY Times about recent mass shooters and them being able to legally purchase the guns even with previous criminal or mental health history. I tried to copy and paste the story but it didn't copy very well so I just posted the link.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/...-share&_r=0

2008
Mr. Harper-Mercer was in the Army for one month, but was discharged before completing basic training. (Only the truly mentally or physically incapable are released from military service this soon. Usually these types don't get past the initial screening unless some recruiter is working on quota.)

2009
He graduated from the Switzer Learning Center in Torrance, Calif., which teaches students with learning disabilities and emotional issues.

BEFORE SHOOTING
In all, Mr. Harper-Mercer owned 14 firearms, all of which were bought legally through a federally licensed firearms dealer, a federal official said Friday. Some were bought by Mr. Harper-Mercer, and some by members of his family.





If all States have laws that require background checks? Why the miss? My guess is background checks don't see military records or hippa law issues which need to show up in the checks if they aren't already.

We should have more of a rapid solution for quick background checks for gun shows and family transfers. Guns being bought by family members and given to another family member should not be allowed without the recipient family member having a background check during time of transfer.

And no gun show loopholes. Buying and trading guns should require a background checks on both the buyer and seller at time of sales.

You did note that a few of these guys were in a position to not be reported for mental health, or their information was not entered in the system. This was a failure of people not following the law to enter information of their backrounds, not the backround check itself. Seeing a psych is not grounds to flag a backround check.

True, but we also should not legislate on the very few either.



I think just about everyone would agree with you on this. The problem is that often that debate becomes, guns or no guns, rather than "How do we identify and help"

The reality is, guns are just one way to kill others. Mentally ill or pissed off people hell bent on killing, will find a way. The numbers they achieve may be different, or maybe not, depending on the method they choose if guns were not available.

Not true. The military is currently cutting back on their personnel and are taking only the best of a recruiting class. I know a person that got dropped from boot at about the same time, and the Army got rid of half the recruiting class. They are currently releasing all those that can't hack before they spend the money on training.

True, but we also should not legislate on the very few either.







I've never heard the guns or no guns argument? I've never heard of a law proposed to out-rite ban firearms or even a hint of that here or anywhere. Enlighten me.




After being denied the purchase of guns these lunatics identified by background checks will hopefully find real help for their problems. If not they will have to find something much harder to acquire or a lot less lethal then the easy purchase of a few guns and ammo to do a mass killing.

I don't know if it was the same back then, but Harper-Mercer was discharged after 1 month in boot camp in 2008.

I was going back during lunch today to find that article to post from the NY Times, and I came across another article in Modesto, Calif from today where (4) high school boys were arrested this past weekend plotting another school shooting. They had a "hit list" and were going through what school event it was going to happen and how it was to be staged.

I don't know about that. Boot camp washouts are a black mark on the recruiter that signed them. We lost a lot of recruits when I was in the military in boot camp. All where incapable of service. I'm sure there is a higher standard today. Regardless that doesn't mean their military records should not be included in a gun purchase background check, which was the point.

And I never said there was proposed laws, I simply said the debate becomes about guns or no guns, because ultimately, everyone takes everything to the extreme, and the true debate of how we solve this problem gets lost in all the arguing.


But in case you truly don't believe there are people who want all out ban, then look no farther.

https://www.facebook.com/Ban-guns-248986248473972

http://www.tallahassee.com/story/opinion...-guns/19426029/

http://www.mrctv.org/blog/bernie-sanders-ban-all-guns-used-self-defense

And here is an interesting one that shows peoples thoughts
http://www.debate.org/opinions/should-guns-be-banned-in-america

There you go. Your idea that it becomes all about guns or no guns is a fallacy. It's mostly made up by gun manufactures, and the NRA to incite more gun purchases. The groups you listed are on the fringe as much as the lunatics that have unfettered access to guns.

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I can't believe you think the only choices are either guns or no guns.. smh

Just to get the debate back on track...shouldn't ex military who have undergone medical reviews be red flaged if unfit to serve due to mental issues and anyone for that matter that has undergone treatment for mental issues like Schizophrenia/Schizoaffective Disorders should be red flagged for gun purchases?

And why can't ammo retailers have a network to flag an individual that purchases large amounts of ammo through separate ammo outlets?. They are obviously hiding something if going to multiple ammo outlets to purchase ammo.

Wouldn't someone who hordes ammo and guns qualify as mentally ill?

According to some.....

Why in the world would a dealer complain about a customer buying his product?!

What I think is a better and more effective way is to require a psych evaluation as part of getting a gun license along with a mandatory criminal background check.

I don't see anything wrong with ensuring that those who are buying guys are mentally sound. I do not support any kind of gun ban though. Normal and healthy Americans have the right to protect their family and hunt for food in a legal manner. I mean the meat from just one deer let alone 2 can drastically improve food costs for a poor family that makes too much for food stamps but is still struggling hard to get by. For those on foodstamps they can then afford to eat healthier.

Depends on the definition of "hording". Around here having 10 plus weapons and thousands of rounds of ammo is a starter set.

Venison is awesome. I get in trouble from my wife if I don't get at least 1 deer a year.

Aside from burgers or the occasional steak, maybe once a year a beef roast, we don't eat steer - we eat venison. Tacos, spaghetti, lasagna, baked "steak". And yes, it DOES help on the food bill, especially if you process it yourself.

Hunting license, deer tag. total of about $48 - and just 1 deer will yield anywhere from 40 lbs of meat (small one) to as much as 80 lbs or more from a big one.

Are you guys serious? Hoarding ammo doesn't mean anything bad. While it does make sense to hoard ammo when planning an attack, hoarding ammo doesn't mean you're planning to attack someone. It just means you're well aware of the ammo shortage that's been occurring since 2008. Not saying your parameters are bad -- in general, pre-emptive policing, while obviously safe, is a very scary concept to many of us --, but it'd be like putting everyone on the "No Fly list" because they googled "Iraq war bad??????". Sure, you might get someone who is a criminal (a terrorist in this case), but you pretty much ruin a lot of peoples' lives in the mean time.

I'd like to know the definition of "hording" ammo and guns.

What is a "horde" according to the original poster?

A group of prostitutes?

You go ahead and defend the lunatics with dozens of firearms and 10's of thousands rounds of ammo, with no hunting license. If I identify one I'll be whistle blowing and hopefully preventing ruining a lot of people's lives in the mean time.

What exactly will you be whistle blowing? There is nothing illegal about having guns nor ammo. Some might look at it as being prepared, whereas people like you look at it as paranoia. As Tulsa said, that is a starter kit where he lives.

I have a pretty good idea what a lunatic acts like and what responsible law abiding gun owners act like.

I guess I'm wondering how many guns are enough?

Does one citizen NEED an arsenal?

I think that could be part of a valid conversation.

One would need to define how much ammo is hording.

I know someone who goes through 2-3000 rounds a week at the range, on a slow week. So he buys in large quantities online.

He has giant safe in a shed out back he keeps it in. When I say shed, I mean a concrete filled cinder block building with A/C. It's his man cave. awesome space, pool tables, bar, (4) 50" TVs.

Man I need to give him a call and go hang out.

As told to you before, there is nothing illegal with owning as many guns and as much ammo as you want. You are way out of line with this line of thought. Have you had yourself checked out by a mental health professional for your obvious irrational paranoia?