DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Defensive concerns...

"I'm not going to say anything to him other than, 'Thanks for your effort.'"

That will make a nice parting statement to the entire team when you're fired. "Thanks for the effort".

If it were a regular down, then perhaps I could see the point. But this was a LONG FG attempt. On THOSE plays you make SURE you aren't off side and hope he misses it. You for DAMNED sure don't give them a free play.
Except of course here in Cleveland. He was playing like a Brown. *snicker*

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Games often come down to the last moments. The cream rises to the top in those moments. You need no further evidence than tonight's game.

Haden never rises to the top when the Browns need it the most. If you can recall a single play he's made in a close game when the Browns needed a play to protect a win or get a win, I'm all ears.

Plus, at a minimum he's too inconsistent for my tastes.

J/C:

Are we really talking about trading Haden on here??

another heckert first round bust.

So you won't agree to disagree with me?

So...when Pettine says the Browns are close on defense...what exactly does that mean? I'm just wondering...

He means the defense is close to being not the worst defense in the league.

The whole interview is laughable, Pettin sounds like a broken record anymore.

Why would I do that when you are clearly wrong?

Hence the term "agree to disagree".

And what am I wrong about exactly?

If I'm reading this situation correctly, you own a Haden jersey.

Now don't lie, what jersey did you wear to the Chargers game?

If I'm reading this situation correctly...

NFL coaches shouldn’t acquiesce to the demands of their players all the time, but Mike Pettine and the Browns need to listen to two former Super Bowl champions who know an underachieving defense must make changes to get its act together.

Cornerback Tramon Williams and outside linebacker Paul Kruger are not trying to throw defensive coordinator Jim O’Neil under the bus. They’re trying to help the Browns (1-3) dig themselves out of a hole as they prepare to visit the Baltimore Ravens (1-3) on Sunday.

After the Browns fell 30-27 to the San Diego Chargers this past weekend, Williams said the Green Bay Packers “had more variety to the calls” they used on defense when he played for them. He added the members of the Browns’ defense believe in Pettine and O’Neil’s scheme, but those same players also need to speak up to the coaches about “whether we need more variety of things or different things” incorporated into the system.

On Monday, Williams said Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers often knew what the Browns would do before the snap.

“It was a lot of times that he knew what we were doing out there. It was a couple times he told us what we were doing,” Williams said. “He’s a real smart quarterback, but there’s only a few of those guys in the league like that. That’s the type of guys you’re going to play if you’re in the playoffs or anything like that, so we definitely have to be better.”

A few days before the Browns traveled to the West Coast to face the Chargers, Kruger pointed out his pass-rush opportunities have dropped substantially a year after he led the Browns with a career-high 11 sacks. O’Neil confirmed switching Kruger from rush linebacker to strongside linebacker this year has cost him about five to 10 shots at rushing the quarterback per game because he’s often dropping back in coverage, a move the coaching staff deemed better for the defense from a big-picture standpoint.

“I’m playing a different position this year, which is going to put me into coverage more often,” Kruger said. “ ... It is a big difference.”

Kruger, who has a half sack through four games, blamed himself for failing to win one-on-one matchups against the Chargers. The Browns sacked Rivers twice but failed to apply adequate pressure throughout the game, even though the Chargers had three starting offensive linemen sitting out with injuries.

But the important point about Kruger is coaches need to put their players in the best positions to succeed. So the staff must find ways to let the former Baltimore Ravens pass-rush specialist to do what he does best, and that’s, well, rush the quarterback.

On Monday, Pettine said “wholesale changes” won’t be made to the defense, but changes should be made, regardless of how he chooses to categorize them.
After all, the defense’s rankings among the 32 NFL teams speak for themselves.

• 21st in points allowed per game (25.5)
• 32nd in yards allowed per game (406.3)
• 22nd in passing yards allowed per game (264.8)
• 31st in rushing yards allowed per game (141.5)
• 16th (tied) in takeaways (five)

The changes should start with Pettine focusing on the defense again.

He could ensure the defense isn’t becoming too predictable for opponents like Rivers. He could tweak how players like Kruger are being used to maximize their talent.

Pettine initially said Monday he doesn’t need to become more involved with the defense because he’s already involved, but moments later he left some wiggle room by adding, “getting more involved, right now, I’ll meet with [O’Neil] today as part of our normal protocol, and we’ll discuss where we are with it.”

A defensive expert, Pettine became much more involved with the offense this year because he wanted to help new coordinator John DeFilippo, Kyle Shanahan’s replacement who hadn’t called plays in the NFL until this season.

So far, the offense has held up its end of the bargain more times than not. The defense isn’t even close. As a result, one of the best outings quarterback Josh McCown has had in his 13-year NFL career went to waste against the Chargers.

Tremendous efforts by running backs Duke Johnson and Isaiah Crowell, wide receiver Travis Benjamin and tight end Gary Barnidge went down the drain as well.

A few days before training camp opened in late July, Pettine explained to me why he felt comfortable switching his focus from defense to offense.

Pettine said he called the defensive plays in the 2014 regular-season opener but gave O’Neil much more responsibility beginning in Week 2. Pettine made the change because he felt he had too much on his plate as a rookie head coach and couldn’t adequately manage the game. Week 1 was eye-opening for him.

“We collaborated a little bit in the beginning, and then I realized very quickly, ‘I can’t give this the full attention,’” Pettine said. “So I grabbed [O’Neil] and threw him in the deep end, and he responded great. That’s why I feel like I just have so much trust, faith, confidence, whatever word you want to use, not just in Jim ‘cause he gets it, but I think just that staff. ... I just feel so good about that staff and how they see the game and how they break down an opponent. I just feel as a head coach it was time for me to go ahead and switch the emphasis [to offense].”

Pettine reiterated those sentiments Monday. O’Neil called the plays from Weeks 2-17 last season. The Browns finished ninth in points allowed (21.1 per game), ranked 23rd in yards allowed (366.1 per game), eighth against the pass (224.5) and 32nd against the run (141.6), and tied for fourth in takeaways (29).

“It was all him,” Pettine said of O’Neil. “I mean there were times I would give him input or he would say, ‘What do you like?’ Or he would say, ‘Hey Pett, I’m thinking this or this. What do you like?’ So I helped him throughout the year. In between series we would talk. But other than that, he was on his own. We did the game plan together.”

O’Neil is a fiery competitor who has already taken accountability, publicly and privately, for poor defensive production this season. There’s no doubt he’s sick about the embarrassing performances the NFL’s highest-paid defense has yielded.
To be clear, I’m not calling for O’Neil’s head. He’s a promising, 37-year-old coach, and the season is still young. But the bottom line is he needs help just like Pettine, his close friend, did early last season when he gave O’Neil the keys to the defense. They have worked together for seven years, and their collaboration needs to increase moving forward to get the unit on track.

Pettine is loyal to O’Neil, but he cannot afford to be loyal to a fault. The jobs of the entire coaching staff could ultimately hinge on fixing the defense.

In regards to a snippet in that article, can anyone provide any reasonable logic as to why Paul is now a drop linebacker?

I cannot think of a single reason why we'd strip away the things he does best at when he's our only real solid rusher, why we signed him and how productive he was last year for us at that? Wasn't the motto of our scheme "we'll put players in situations where it's best for them" and "we'll mold the scheme to fit our players, not mold the players to fit the scheme?"

We had a huge hole opposite of Kruger at OLB...Now we have two holes at OLB from sliding an answer over to play a question mark...We wonder why our squad plays poorly...coaching

Agreed. I understand their thinking in that they want to try to mitigate the fact that we have no body else that can play that Cover OLB, but the net result is that in trying to cover one weakness they've created two weaknesses.

They should just let Kruger rush and try to cover for the pass in other ways. If the defensive scheme is predicated upon getting pressure and you turn one of your best rushers into a coverage guy, you're thinking about your own scheme in a backwards kinda way.

I mean, it almost has to be intentional the ways that several guys on here are being completely misused and falling apart.

This is a dumb thing to say. Haden has made plenty of plays in his career that have positively affected the game in the Browns favor. Any time he makes a pass breakup or an interception is when it mattered most.

We need more quality players, not less. Haden, though overrated, is still among the top players at his position. Trading him would be one of the worst moves this team could make.

Perfectly stated...I think this is why we see so much regression with the addition of no growth...All of our rookie studs regress and their apex is essentially their rookie year (Schwartz was a beast his rookie year, Mingo showed alot more his rookie year, Ditto Sheard,Kirksey, Bitinio, etc) You are always supposed to utilize a players strengths to his advantages, and help diminish his weaknesses to a greater ability (two way street here...player must work on his weaknesses to the degree that instead of being poor in this area, he is perhaps solid...Then the coaches have to scheme it where isnt put too much into situations where the player is taken advantage because of his weakness) This is hugely flawed...As our players aren't getting better, yet regressing...and we are putting our players weaknesses to get exploited severely on a weekly basis...

Our whole philosophy seems to be ass backwards...we are creating more issues than need be...We are not addressing areas of concern, and when attempting to "mask" the area of concern...We are adding more problematic issues elsewhere...

I would enjoy not seeing our OLBs crash inside EVERY TIME allowing the RB to run open outside..

Our inside guys have been no better. They get swallowed up between the tackles all the time.

I don't see much almost not at all. Screens! Didn't Flip emphasize that during preseason?

I think teams are overly concentrating stopping the run. Ravens did well plugging gaps.

I was talking about the inside linebackers on our defense.

I just want to know why the Browns are playing a 3-4 given their depth at DL and lack of skill at LB. Anyone?