DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum T.J. Ward, Jabaal Sheard, Buster Skrine

Also known as, what every single new FO on every team does..

Unless a team has a cornerstone player, they are going to look for a guy to replace someone..

Its business.

Vets were guys who fit scheme better.

I'm not sure what Pettine wants at CB. It appears he likes experience. It is obvious a key piece.

If I recall, Hughes and Davis were not huge money signings. Hmmm, guys who shut their mouth and play hard. A great Ben Hur movie quote..."roll well and live!"

I'm betting Farmer drafts players eliminating guys like Williams and Starks. Campbell replaces Whitner. Cooper takes over for Starks.

Not every draft pick will score it is impossible. We will see less and less FA signings each year.

It's only two years you can't expect a roll out of talent thus far.

I could be totally wrong. To me, Farmer/Pettine want guys who are top of their class at key positions or quiet lunch pail workers who fit their schemes. As you know, contracts don't mean much, so lunch pail guys are easily expendable for another.

All I know is that even with those guys, we couldn't stop the run. Seems ike a wash to me.

Whitner and Dansby are not "lunch pail guys."

I would have rather have had Sheard or Rubin over Starks. Maybe I am biased on this as I liked both guys. I could say the same about Buster and TJ. I really liked both players. I think I was the only one around here standing up for Buster his first two seasons with the Browns lol

I agree with you that Dansby was a upgrade but I think Whitner was a wash as far as his play on the field, but a upgrade on his locker room leadership. He is however two years older than Ward if I remember correctly, and I didn't believe we were going to make the playoffs last year or this year anyway. So IMO I thought it made more sense to go with the younger guy.

Now as far as Sheard, he has played BOTH end positions for NE so far this year as well as playing tackle on passing downs and outside linebacker. He has been used to rush the passer, to play the run, and to cover RB's and tight ends. He has been used all over the field and has played well at everything NE has asked him to do.

I have a few opinions on these guys:

Ward: He's very one dimensional. He is good at attacking the LOS. This ability makes him very effective on blitzes and occasionally stopping the run at--or behind--the LOS. However, he is not a good tackler in space. I was watching a recent game and Charles made TJ miss by at least 5 yards on a little juke move over the middle. Ward is absolutely terrible in coverage. One of the very worst in the league. I also think that he was replaced in part because of his poor professionalism.

Sheard was never one of my favorites. I thought he was the worst of our LBers at setting the edge. People just chose to ignore the plays in which this happened. With that said, I would have rather kept him and not brought in guys like Starks and Orchard. Btw----New England might be listed as a 4-3 defense, but I have posted an article about how they run both the 4-3 and 3-4. They switch back and forth to match-up w/their opponent each week. Thus, I don't agree w/anyone who says that Sheard is a 4-3 LBer. In fact, I think he is better suited to the 3-4. Not by much, but to say he is not good in the 3-4 is simply not true.

Skrine struggled big time his rookie year. After that, he has been a very good corner. We really miss him. Letting him go was a huge mistake by Farmer. Huge.

DQ is leading the league in tackles. Well, at least he was before last week's game. I didn't check it this week. He also has had more stuffs than Dansby. I do think that Dansby's ankle is hampering his ability to get off blocks.

Reubin is not that old. We miss him. It's odd that these guys are good enough for good teams, but not good enough for the Browns.

And while we are at it --- how do Skrine and Williams compare. Anytime I see Williams he ALWAYS seems to be in the right position - he's not a fast as Skrine but plays with much better technique ....

Or perhaps comparing Whitner and then Skrine/Williams doesn't fit with an agenda - maybe you won't bother to look that stuff up.

or maybe if you have a point you should get off your lazy a$$ and look it up?

As I said I believe o the field TJ and Whitner are a wash. TJ I believe is two years younger and Whitner is better in the club house and as a leader. We agree on Sheard, Buster if I remember correctly did improve from his 1st to his 2nd season but he still made a lot of mistakes and got torched for it around here. I took a lot of flack for defending the kid. I loved DQ the person. DG the player always gave his all on the field and I never had a problem with anything he did. However I think Dansby has more talent than DQ and yes he has been bothered by the injury, but even with the injury he is a much better choice to be out there than Tank. I agree with you on Rubin as well, and I have no problem admitting that the front office made mistakes on all of these players except for DQ. I'm just not sure who had the biggest hand in letting these guys get away. I think Farmer has to take some or all of the blame. If we let them get away because the Coaches didn't want to keep them however then it's a different story. Man I wish I was a fly on the wall sometimes

Yeah, I don't think getting Dansby over DQ was a bad move. Dansby played pretty good last year. I think the ankle is a pretty big deal. I watched him last week and he absolutely had no push when engaged by blockers, which meant he couldn't shed the blocker.

I also agree w/you on Whit and Ward being very similar players. I think Whit is more professional and better in pass coverage, but he really isn't great against the pass. I think Ward is faster and attacks the LOS better.

I think people need to reframe the Skrine argument a little. Williams is better than Skrine. Anyone who's paying attention can see that. So, at least to this point, that has been an upgrade.

But I want to know why we couldn't have them both. Skrine is still a young developing player, a player the Browns spent a lot of time developing. There was a place on this team for both players and the Browns had the money for both.

I hate to see players that the Browns drafted and developed just let walk. And most of these guys want to stay in Cleveland. What's more disappointing to me than Farmer's drafts are his strategy toward our own FAs. I don't get it at all.

If PFF is free I will go check it out.

FREE TRIAL OF PFF 2015 PLAYER GRADES AVAILABLE NOW

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/13/free-trial-of-pff-2015-player-grades-available-now/

go ahead.

We already have the highest % of our salary assigned to the Defense .... I think keeping Skrine and adding Williams and having Haden and having 2 young 'up and comers' in Desir and Williams ... and potentially having a Gilbert back with a better attitude?? That would have been too much.

J/C

I'm not going to try and compare who we should have kept or let go. I have my opinions on that but I'm simply going to look at the big picture in this post.

1. We had some very talented players that were let go. We see them playing at a high level elsewhere.

2. This coaching staff simply couldn't figure out how to get the most out of their talent.

3. We have seen them replaced for players our coaching staff felt would better fit into their plan. Their goal was to make it a better defense by making these changes.

4. That plan has failed.

IMO, it has been a wash. The same problems we had with those guys is evident with the ones that replaced them.

I say it is the scheme that is hurting us, not the players.

That has been my guess, as well.

This D looks absolutely unchanged from last year.

I remember I think it was 06, the year Indy won the SB..

They had one of the worst run defenses in the HISTORY of the NFL..

Dungy was adamant that the problems were fixable..

The playoffs started, and it was like a switch was flipped..

They were stonewalling people..

I'm not saying we're just going to suddenly have a great run defense, i just HOPE there are a few fixable things to make it better along the way..

Jabaal Sheard has 4 sacks..

i swear Bill has a thing to show that we didnt teach em well...he brought over gerard warren and lehigh bodden and now its dion lewis...he is obsessed with ex browns guys...oh wait...kellen winslow 4th....jk

And the closest we ever got in reverse was getting Gronks little brother for part of a season

And Stallworth.

Or did he go there after leaving Cleveland? I can't remember for sure.

stallworth went from the saints, to NE, then to us.

cause i think he was on the team that year Brady had Moss.

I think you are right.

Of the four first-round picks made by Farmer over the last two seasons, they totaled 25 non-special teams snaps on Sunday—and they were all by defensive tackle Danny Shelton who just so happens to be ranked 65th out of 67 defensive tackles (by PFF) and has been the worst rookie defensive tackle in football. The inability to capitalize on such important selections is downright stunning.

i just loved being called a troll when i said we dont know if we improved the D-line in the offseason or not.

This is the type of information that worries me. We simply cannot afford to keep making so many mistakes w/our personnel decisions.

uncle Bill has always takin our vets to show them the good life...bodden, warren, dion lewis, sheard, winslow...might need to look up for more

I think a lot of it is scheme and play calling too. Handing over the defense, fully, to Jim O'Neil, seems a wasted cause. Our best rush lb'er now drops into coverage ALOT, we cannot defend the pass (short or deep), we cannot contain the run or seal off any edges... we just regressed so much and I don't think losing Skrine, Rubin and etc are that much factors for the bad drop-off.

and we're not putting ANY pressure on QBs. It's awful.

And most qbs have dealt with injured and battered up offensive lines where people are/have been shifted around. We were only successful at consistent pressure against the rookie Qb Mariota, who made adjustments and killed our rush in the second half.

No threat to the qb really. Not great when the secondary is also struggling.

Manning has been getting crushed the entire season. And then he played us.

I think "agonizing", "pathetic" or "depressing" would be better terms than "stunning".

Getting rid of Billy Winn was another mistake in countless roster mistakes.

my personal opinion is farmer set pettine up to fail. said it 7 months ago and nothing i have seen changed that.

Can we add practice squad players missed Dion Lewis and Willie Snead?

Just curious because technically they were ours and didn't sign them to the 53.

i dont. but to each there own.

What's a Billy Winn?



6 tackles, (3 solo and 3 assist so far this season) with no sacks, INT, or other game changing play is what.

Did you watch Winn play the other night?