DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel pulled over during domestic argument, admits to drinking

Yeah, I suppose if you practice it you can do it. But most people don't practice the alphabet backwards, right?

My point was, if a cop is having you do the tests, he's already decided he's taking you for a breathalyzer, and the tests are just to see if they can get you on camera making a mistake. Makes the court case easier for the cops.

If you were a cop and pulled over 10 drivers in a day, completely stone cold drivers, I bet half of them would fail the "walk the line, heel to toe" test, 7-8 would fail the "stand on one foot and raise your other foot in front of you" test.

The "follow the light" eye test is a good one, but it's almost impossible to video.

The "recite the alphabet backwards" test? Shoot, why not ask the person to count to 50 in swahili?

The best advice I ever got with sobriety tests is to do them quickly. Walk the line fast. Touch your nose quickly. It prevents the wobbling.

So, you feel the same way about Gordon's issues, right?

Well, of course the more evidence you have, the "easier" the court case will be.. its kind of how investigating crimes works. Having someone do those tests (I don't anyone who actually does the recite the alphabet backwards thing.. I've never asked anyone) isn't about making someone look bad. Its about comparatively demonstrating their ability to operate a 2+ ton vehicle without being a risk to other people on the road. And if you had 10 stone cold people submit to those tests, you'd actually get closer to 8, 9, or even all 10 being able to successfully do those tests. Its due to the high success rate of stone cold sober people that those tests are considered Standardized Field Sobriety Tests.

Now of course there are people that can be hammered and perform the walk and turn and one leg test just fine (the eyes don't lie however). Josh Gordon's official BAC was .09. Given his athleticism, I'd imagine he probably did fairly well on those two tests if he was asked to do them. My GUESS is that he probably blew closer to an .11 or .12 when he was pulled but he was able to metabolize that much alcohol by the time he did the formal Breathalyzer.

I will respectfully disagree with you. The tests are done for 1 thing: to get a "fail" on video.

I disagree with you on even the 8, 9, or even 10 people passing the sobriety tests. (stone cold sober, never drank in their life people) Why? because when pulled over and asked to do those most people react in a scared manner. A "fear".....that gets the blood going, people get nervous, etc.

No, those tests are done for one reason: to get a "fail" on video.

Come into my house, I'll pass every test you give me, stone cold sober. Pull me over on the road at 10 pm, I'll probably fail all of them.

Now, the eye test, as you said, is pretty much a give away. The pupils bounce, or they don't. But, the eye test can't be video taped.

And also, as a cop (aren't you a cop?) I'm surprised you think someone's athleticism has anything to do with how fast alcohol is metabolized. Food intake does. It can delay the effects. Size of the person does - the bigger the person, the lower the bac in comparison to a smaller person.

An athlete is likely to have a higher metabolism than a "normal" person. They're also likely to eat more at a sitting than others.

Just saying...

Its a shame a kid does the good thing, goes to rehab for 3 months. Girlfried gets hammered and he doesnt but has a drink and some are calling for his release? Others believe he needs suspended? I just dontsee the problem. He was found arguing with adrunk woman, stopped her from hurting herself n he was infact sober.

He did nothing wrong. Hell,he doesnt need released, he needs to be starting.

And when Gordon failed his what 2nd or 3rd drug test alot of those same people were supporting him about taking his case to court or that his suspension should be reduced or thrown out but Johny hasn't failed a drug test or ever been charged with anything and he should be cut immediately. Just depends on people's agenda as to where their principles fall.

I'm not sticking up for either but you cannot make that statement.

Manziel's nfl career = done next to nothing but stir up off field distractions and hasn't done better on the field.

Gordon's nfl career = beasted it with multiple, crappy qbs.

If Manziel had came in last year, prepared and serious and played decent, I don't think the noose would be so tight.

All JMO

This organization needs to release Manziel immediately. It's just time to move on. He's crap anyway and can't beat out an average at best journeyman QB. The handling of some of our players is not setting a good example at all...it's embarrassing as it gets.

That if he goes to rehab and needs to live a clean/sober life that he needs to quit everything? Of course. Absolutely, 100%.
Why wouldn't I feel the same way, it is an indisputable truth.

Sorry man but I couldn't disagree more with you. The rules should not be applied differently based on your production on the field. If that is in fact what you are saying, maybe I'm reading your post wrong.

I think you read it right. And I agree with what you're saying. It shouldn't matter. But the fact is, it does.

Both coaches and fans want to see wins. The fans love to see it and coaches jobs depend on it.

So I do believe that in the eyes of the fans and the coaching staff, if a player is or has been productive, more leeway is given.

But as you pointed out, that doesn't make it right.

Well said!

Not saying it's right, but I do believe the flexibility is given. I mean look at Greg Hardy, just saying I don't want to taint this thread with that loser, but just an example to attempt to make my point.

It makes it exactly right. In the eyes of God, the law, and the league, Tom Brady and Luke McCown should be treated exactly the same... in the eyes of a franchise that wants to win (and make money) they never will be nor should they be.

If I think you can make my business more successful, I'm willing to put up with a lot more of your crap... If I can replace you with one phone call, then I will because I don't need the distractions.

Agreed.

In any business, but more so in the high dollar "sports" business.

It's any business. It's just that in sports the producers and the non-producers are sometimes easier to identify. Plus, in sports, there is a contract in place, which doesn't occur in a lot of other businesses.

Heck, it's not even just in business. Everybody knows somebody who stayed in a relationship far too long and put up with far too much crap just because the person they were with was really attractive... The less attractive ones, out the door much quicker.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/139533...y-investigation

And it continues.

Roger Goodell could discipline Johnny Manziel under personal conduct policy

The NFL is still investigating Cleveland Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel's recent driving incident, but the league could discipline Manziel before that probe is complete, if it believes that he violated the personal conduct policy.

The policy states that anyone believed by commissioner Roger Goodell to be in violation can be placed on paid leave at any time.

Manziel was stopped by police on Oct. 12 in Avon, Ohio, and questioned after witnesses saw Manziel and girlfriend Colleen Crowley arguing in a vehicle. The argument escalated to the point that Crowley tried to leave the car as it exited a highway.

The couple admitted to arguing, and Manziel told police they had been drinking earlier in the day. Police determined that Manziel was not intoxicated, and neither he nor Crowley was arrested or charged.

"If an investigation leads the Commissioner to believe that you may have violated this Policy by committing any of the conduct identified above, he may act where the circumstances and evidence warrant doing so," the NFL personal conduct policy states. "This decision will not reflect a finding of guilt or innocence and will not be guided by the same legal standards and considerations that would apply in a criminal trial."

The policy lists several forms of "prohibited actions," two of which are "Actual or threatened physical violence against another person, including dating violence, domestic violence, child abuse, and other forms of family violence" and "Conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person."

The league is not commenting on the investigation, which is routine when a possible violation of the policy occurs.

Browns coach Mike Pettine said Friday that Manziel "more than likely" would be active and serve as the backup quarterback against the St. Louis Rams on Sunday.


Johnny Manziel hasn't played since leading the Browns to a Week 2 win over the Titans. Scott R. Galvin/USA TODAY Sports
Crowley said Manziel hit her and pushed her head against the glass while driving. She also told police that she feared for her life at one point.

She told police she did not want to press charges and later posted on social media that she and Manziel were fine. Manziel also posted on social media, saying the argument looked worse than it was.

A witness reported that Manziel passed her car on the highway's shoulder at a high rate of speed then crossed several lanes to exit the highway. As he did, Crowley tried to leave the moving car, and Manziel pulled her back in.

The witness said Manziel was "flying" on the highway. Another witness said Crowley told her Manziel had hit her.

The league's investigation will look into whether there was physical violence or the threat of it and whether Manziel's driving posed a danger to others.

Under the personal conduct policy, discipline could be a fine, suspension or, in the worst cases, banishment from the league. Factors considered include the nature of the violation and the record of the employee.

Manziel told police he had two drinks in the afternoon before driving from downtown Cleveland to his home in the West suburbs. Police noticed no signs of impairment and did not give him a sobriety test.

The Browns quarterback went to rehab for 10 weeks from January through April in the offseason.

Meh... it's nothing unless it happens. If it happens, well, it's a good thing he's the backup and not the starter, eh?

Under what circumstances could you determine that an argument was "nasty" or even that an argument was going within a "few seconds"? Someone could be head banging to Bohemian Rhapsody as they roll down the road and in the few seconds you see them as you pass by you might think that they look like their fighting. You'd call 911 in that circumstance?

I'm sorry but I don't think the vast majority of people call 911 on someone not involved with them unless there's a clear and present danger to themselves or someone else. Guy flashing a gun around in a car, call 911. To people speaking animatedly, no call to 911.

It's that simple, it's the emergency line and people don't call it unless something egregious is goig on. The cops couldn't act on it because they didn't see it and likely the witnesses were miles down the road by then but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

NFL JUSTIFIED IN FURTHER INVESTIGATING JOHNNY MANZIEL INCIDENT WITH GIRLFRIEND

There are some troubling facts in the Johnny Manziel case. Troubling enough that the NFL is right to open an investigation into what happened on Oct. 12, when several 911 calls prompted a response from the Avon Police Department to Manziel's location on the side of a road in the Cleveland suburb.

Currently, the NFL has a staff that includes former prosecutors looking at the police report and trying to ascertain whether there is enough substance to warrant placing Manziel on the commissioner's exempt list, which is essentially a form of paid leave. The league wants to be thorough, without negatively impacting a player's reputation where it isn't deserved. With this police report, their job may be a little harder.

Cleveland's backup quarterback wasn't charged, and his girlfriend, Colleen Crowley, declined to press charges. But there are several disturbing parts to the police report and process over an argument that allegedly began when he had her phone on his lap and she threw his wallet out of the car.

Despite admitting he had been drinking, Manziel was never asked to take a blood-alcohol level test. The author of the report notes he detected the smell of alcohol on Manziel's breath, but since he didn't exhibit other signs of drunkenness, he was not given an objective test.

"The smell of alcohol coupled with reports of erratic behavior make the decision not to proceed with blood testing blood alcohol level concerning," said Omar Manejwala, addiction specialist and author of "Craving: Why We Can't Seem to Get Enough".

Some people might appear more functional when they have been drinking, which is why an objective measure is needed. Manejwala said people generally have an incentive to under-report the number of drinks they have consumed when asked by an officer during a traffic stop.

Crowley, who according to witnesses and police officers was visibly drunk, said Manziel hit her -- something audible in the police vehicle's dash cam video. Yet, she immediately asked the officer not to convey it saying, "Please don't." She had an abrasion on her arm, and one witness said she saw Manziel with his arm and elbow on her neck.

"It looked to me like she was in some danger," said Kim Gandy, the president and CEO of the National Network to End Domestic Violence. "I know it's hard for police when a victim said she doesn't want to press charges, but you have eyewitnesses and the girlfriend said he hit her head on the glass. She has abrasions. You have multiple calls to 911 and people who stayed with the car. People don't usually do that unless they're concerned.

"So it seems to me that this is another case of special treatment for football players. If he'd been a random African-American guy, he'd have been in jail."

Later, Crowley gave conflicting statements. Yet, as experts on interpersonal violence can attest, this does not mean the initial statement was incorrect. Janay Palmer didn't want to press charges against Ray Rice, but it doesn't mean that an act of violence didn't occur. Crowley's statements that she had been hit -- with physical evidence -- were not given the same weight that Manziel's were.

Instead, the police wrote a narrative that almost made Manziel appear to be the hero in the scenario. He saved a drunken Crowley from leaping out of a moving car, even if he had to hurt her in the process. Is that what happened? Perhaps, but maybe not. And the assumptions that law enforcement made -- that a driver was being truthful about the amount he drank for example -- keep the case from advancing to a prosecutor or court.

Once the narrative was established, the police offered Crowley a ride home. She declined, but initially didn't want to go home with Manziel either. Crowley asked if she could walk home, but the officers said she couldn't. Then they let her get back in the car with Manziel and drive home.

"Why would they let him drive away with the person whose head he hit against the glass?" Gandy asked. "Police officers who've had training in domestic violence treat things differently."

Later, officers were able to interview another witness, Lauren Clark, who said Manziel passed her on the left side berm at an estimated 90 mph and had his elbow and arm against Crowley's neck. This account didn't fit so neatly with the defined narrative, not that officers didn't try.

According to the police report, "Ms. Clark was asked if she viewed the actions as aggressive by the male in attempts to harm the female or if they were actions used to keep the occupant from exiting a moving car. Ms. Clark was not sure, but did state the male's actions kept the female from exiting the moving car."

Gandy notes Manziel could have been arrested for erratic driving given multiple calls to 911.

As Christine Brennan wrote in USA Today, this information could be enough for the NFL to put Manziel on the commissioner's exempt list, while New York Daily News columnist Shaun King examined the issue of race and privilege in the context of Manziel's stop.

Browns coach Mike Pettine expressed sympathy for Manziel, who spent 73 days in a rehabilitation facility during the offseason for unspecified personal issues.

"I think one of the positives in his life is football," Pettine said. "To give him an outlet. It's hard for me to speak on not just him, but any player outside the building because I'm not with him. But as his coach, he's been an A-plus when he's here."

The NFL is trying to piece together the facts from what can be discerned from the police report on Manziel's actions on Oct. 12. Problematic incidents like this are really why the league was compelled to put together a unit to investigate in the first place. The balance is to make sure a player is protected from unfounded charges, even as it tries to provide consequences for violent actions.

Clearly, it's not an easy job.

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary...dent-girlfriend

Man, people love picking on this guy.

"So it seems to me that this is another case of special treatment for football players. If he'd been a random African-American guy, he'd have been in jail."

Ok - so maybe I watch way to many CSI movies...but seeing that much detail at that speed -in the car pics I saw that was his?? Does that seem right?

I am sorry but

Its insane. I have never seen the media attack any player like they have manziel. If you commit no crime, not charged with anything, try to better yourself on and off the field and the media and fans hate you, want him released or suspended. Even if I wasn't a fan of this kid, I would be wanting to see him play great and to then have these same haters kissing his ass for the next decade.

...passing wind in a public place. Does every player need to be a saint (not Saint) these days?

It's like they say mour, first impressions are everything and the kid made a horrible first impression with Browns fans everywhere. Sure some are pure haters but some are just shut-up and show me wins otherwise stay out of the news types.

The court of public opinion is more harsh and quick to judge with only the slightest of facts. Already knowing this, he's bringing it on himself with these antics and bad decisions. Maybe they're not illegal but they are a detriment to his progress is soothing that horrible first impression.

You know it is rather funny how many people who were yelling for Johnny to play and how he was being treated unfairly for not getting to start are now calling for his head and wanting the Browns to get rid of him

I think Pluto is fed up as we are. Too gimmicky for my taste in journalism, but Pluto has something. In trying to discipline kids, which I did for years, you first must find what matters to them. Football matters, but apparently not enough. He seems motivated by media spotlights, so maybe that is a hook that matters some. But if a kid won't wake up to facts, you have little results. Hope the NFL moves on this or clears it.

Tired of black eyes from this non-starter who can't seem functional. lesson might appear to him to be "don't get caught." Pulling for him, but this fail makes it tougher.

This statement is BS, and was used to drum up something that has nothing to do with anything. Why does race have to be brought up, even when it is not involved in the situation.

He is a rich white kid, so naturally in today's age of media, lets turn this into a black and white thing.

I don't care how these assinine writers are looking at the situation, but they are using conjecture to add to the story. One stated he was "beating" her. In this one the person who brought up race says their were "abrasions", plural. She had a mark on her arm from him pulling it.

People are questioning the policeman's judgement, as if they know he was wrong. He is trained to identify someone who is intoxicated, apparently he saw no justification. As for what happened, the girl changed her story at sometime, which makes her statemennts hard to take seriously.

He was not charged, and their is no definite proof of him hitting her. The person who saw all this stuff at a supposed 90 MPH, even said it looked like he was keeping her from exiting the car. The media is trying it's best to turn this into more than it was. If Goodell gets involved, and I was Johnny, I would definately file a suit against them for defamation.

I'm not trying to apologize for Johnnie's actions, but it is clear to me that they have a vendetta against this kid. If it was any other player, my feelings would be the same.

It sickens me that law enforcement is being looked at the way it is today. This cop did a good job of difusing a domestic quarrel and now he is being questioned by outsiders trying to make him look bad.

The hate for Manzeil is unbelievable, but that is what society is today.

jm did at least 1 thing correctly: He cooperated with the officers. Weird how that works.

Black, white, brown.....had he been yelling, stand offish, bitching and griping, and uncooperative, I'm pretty sure he would've been arrested. Had he threatened any physical action, he'd probably have been tased as well.

You share my birthday - Happy Birthday!

Well, since you share MY birthday, you're obviously an ok kinda guy. Have a good one!

now that would have been funny seeing on that dashcam.

Yeah that would hilarious to see some one tazed.

hey maybe he would have resisted and they could have hit a couple times

Allright you two - party's over.

No matter how you slice it Manziel is making headlines
For his off field actions instead of his on field play.
That's is a first RD bust folks.

With the extra baggage aside, do you really think Manziel is going to amount to much on the field? I have a couple of work buds that think this guy is going to be great and they hate the Browns. Am I missing something here? He can't even beat out old McCown.

IDK I just don't see what would be the point of keeping the guy. He's a distraction and he has done very little on the field and there's the fact that he can't get playing time from an journeyman QB that gives you no hope for the future.

He was never given the opportunity to beat out McCown.

McCown was named the starter as soon as he got here.

And for those who believe he can somehow win the job in between games, the recent Austin Davis article should shed some light on how unrealistic that is.

Pecking order was established early and they are sticking to it.

I think the original thought on letting McCown start was sincere since Manziel was just coming out of rehab and I don't think anyone, coaches or players, were sure what Manziel was going to show up. The truly unfortunate thing about that was a committed Manziel showed up, but Pettine was still able to hide behind the "doing what's best for Johnny" mantra and keep him on the bench.

And here we sit at 2-4 which should be a surprise to no one. And the guy they drafted to be the future is taking mental reps in practice.

But hey McCown is well liked by coaches and players. And the inmates continue to run the asylum.