DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Start Manziel thread

#1 We are the problem. Owners fire coaches to appease the ticket holders with pitchforks.

#2 New coaches bring new systems and new players. When's the last time a coach got fired and his replacement comes in and says that he won't change a thing?

If you guys really want to fix the Browns, start by looking in the mirror. All the guys wanting to blow it up an start over seem to have the shortest memories on the planet. It's not just our fault, our local media is smart enough to know that they'll get more headlines to use if we keep up the same revolving door as well, and they know we are stupid enough to buy into that yet again.

Would keeping a coach for a long time ever be an answer for this team? I don't know, we have never kept one even a short time around here.

Should we bench a QB that is playing good so we can see what JFF has?
I know what he has. He has a substance abuse problem and a girlfriend that likes to party. He has problems with his footwork, a bad delivery and a sore elbow because of that bad delivery. He has a good chance of being suspended any given Sunday.

But nobody is going to listen anyway, so please continue everyone.

Think some of "us" do know most of it, so don't lump me into that "we" thang, thanks.

I am not that curious to play him for uncovering "something" we do not know. Not that curious at all. Want to work him in some? I have said before that suited me. But if we discover he is awful, or no better, then what? How long do we hang with that? Not nuts about McCown, but this is a good time to switch if you want. Or bye week.

If the NFL is out of JM's picture. If he seems ready. If we are going to call an aggressive game for him. If . . . .

Just decide now for the week.

Tab thats exactly what I see. If Pet had lived up to his side of the bargain then McCown would have been a great QB for this team. Strong D, dominate run game that minimizes the QB position. Yea thats perfect for Josh but we have no run game and our D cant stop anyone. McCown has played well but he has had chances to win games and in those situations he has been at his worst.

Pat McManamon
ESPN Staff Writer

Pro Football Focus reports that Josh McCown completed 90 percent of his throws and had a 109.6 rating on the 20 passes when he had time to throw. Pressured, McCown's rating dropped to 81.2 (still respectable), though he was sacked four times. PFF put one of the sacks on McCown.

Why did you attribute those quotes to me? I never said either one.

Btw-------your quote about blaming the fans for the Brown's problems is ludicrous.

I didn't attribute those quotes to you. I left the quote field blank.

We have been the problem since the team came back. We run guys out on a rail before they can do anything.

But you guys keep going with the bench the QB that's playing well and fire everyone thread.



That part was for you.

What?

Go up to the post you submitted at 10:07.

I really love your optimism but HS and College are much more freelance than the pros and to pretend like discipline is not one of, if not the most important traits for an NFL team to have is asinine. In fact, if, as a team we were MORE disciplined we'd have a much better record. Disciplined teams don't have the penalties we've had, disciplined teams don't miss the tackles we have, or leave open the holes that we do, or any of the other numerous ways we find to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Who is the most disciplined team in the league? The Patriots and they're not coincidentally the best team in the last what, 10, 15 years? Linemen succeed when they know where their QB will be. QB's succeed when they know where their WR's will be. LB's make plays when they know where the DL-men will leave open holes, it all fits together and being un-disciplined is not part of any measure of success in this league!

Man, that thought just drives me crazy!

Clem, I respect your opinion about continuity. I'm a firm believer that continuity is key to success. My sig. speaks miles on the topic. But I must piggy back on what Vers said. Continuity with the wrong people in charge is a futile exercise.

I agree with him about giving Pettine more time. The coaching staff and the team is what actually spells continuity on the field. The FO does not enter into that continuity. But even from the perspective of coaching continuity, let's look at where we are. We have a DC in only his second year at his position. We have a HC in only his second year as an NFL HC. We also have an OC that is in his first year in that capacity.

That's depending on every major coaching position we have to grow to be successful. You do understand how highly the odds are stacked against that happening, right? But even with that said, I do agree with giving them more time.

What we simply can't do, is continue to fail at building this team from a talent standpoint. A coaching staff can never succeed without talent in this league. We will never know, even in five years, what Pettine can do without giving him the talent necessary to succeed.

Keeping Pettine in place doesn't mean you're giving him the tools to succeed unless the people evaluating the draft, drafting the players and making the personnel decisions succeed first.

I would swear we are 2-5.

Only if we redesign our playbook.

One of my favorite most-underrated movies that also captures quite well the sentiment

Is that Booger Sugar??

It was exciting to watch him play that game! Lest we forget.

1 win 5 loss with mccown starting. i am sure thats what he meant.

Gawd, y'all never learn.

I don't disagree the need for talent, but with the complexity of the NFL playbook talent without discipline is a receipt for 2 or 3 Sportscenter highlights while your team loses 49 to 14. But man, those two touchdows were AWESOME!

If everyone you hand off too or throw too is going to catch the ball and then fumble, there isn't a QB alive or dead that is THAT type of QB.

Sundays game demonstrated that. We had chances to take that game over. Kept shooting ourselves in the foot. Can't win that way..

What a waste of time.



https://twitter.com/caplannfl/status/659357239879274496

I hope this is just a smokescreen to make the Cards prepare for both QB's, wasting practice time on McCown.

Look, I don't think the losses are McCown's fault. But they are losses just the same. We are not building a future with Josh at QB. At some point doesn't this coaching staff have to realize this is not a playoff caliber team, and pull the plug on this year and start looking to the future?? I am firmly in the start Johnny group. We need to find out if he can handle it. If he can't the losses will pile up and we will be in prime position to draft a QB. If he wins, better yet, then we take our high pick and draft an offensive weapon.

If don't start Manziel when our QB is injured and can't practice, we are never starting him. His time here is done.

I just want to point out that McCown is moving very well inside the pocket. One thing I hope Manziel picks up is the way McCown slides up and around in the pocket while keeping his eyes down field. When he tends to run into problems is after he does this and still holds onto the ball, giving the rushers time to curl around the back of the pocket and whack him from behind.

I think McCown, for the most part, moves around in the pocket pretty well.

Let's try what Urban did for a couple of weeks, make Josh the starter but when we get in the redzone put Johnny in. With his scrambling ability at least we might be able to score a few TDs. At the VERY minimum they have to start adding some packages with Johnny if they aren't going to start him. At some point this year they have to know what they have in him, otherwise we are going to be sitting at the #3 pick in the draft or higher and trying to decide what QB to take and then it starts all over... Or if Farmer is still the GM we'll be deciding on what CB or OL to take. LOL

I'm beginning to think the coaches do know what they have in him, which is why he isn't playing.

(I don't know if the coaches are right or wrong.)

You may very well be right. FWIW, I believe Pet is playing the guy(s) that he feels will extend his coaching career here. Nothing wrong with that (in the short term)...

There is a lot wrong with that. I wonder how Pettine would feel if one of his players was only doing things to preserve himself and not the team.

Cleveland Browns Logic

1) Can your team run the ball?
A) Yes, skip to step 5
B) No, skip to step 5
2) Can you stop the run?
A) Yes, skip to step 5
B) No, skip to step 5
3) Can you stop the Pass?
A) Yes, skip to step 5
B) No, skip to step 5
4) Actually fix anything you answered No to above. Go back to step 1

5) Fire everyone and put Manziel in.

Pettine sees “a sense of urgency” in NFL’s investigation of Manziel

Posted by Michael David Smith on October 28, 2015, 1:23 PM EDT

The NFL is investigating whether Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel violated the league’s personal conduct policy in an October 12 incident with his girlfriend, and Browns coach Mike Pettine senses that the league wants to handle it quickly.

Pettine told reporters today that Manziel’s meeting with the NFL “is imminent” and there’s “a sense of urgency” to it.

The league’s investigators apparently traveled to Cleveland to speak with Manziel. They will also presumably want to speak to his girlfriend, who told police Manziel hit her and shoved her head against a car window, but also told police she did not want him to be charged.

Police say Manziel, who spent time in alcohol rehab this offseason, had been drinking prior to the incident, which took place while he was driving and his girlfriend was a passenger in his car. But police did not charge Manziel with either domestic violence or drunk driving.

Still, the NFL can discipline players even if criminal charges are not brought. It’s possible that Manziel could be suspended, depending on what the league’s investigation turns up. That could happen as soon as this week.

McCown “truly day to day,” Manziel gets No. 1 reps Wednesday

Posted by Zac Jackson on October 28, 2015, 12:58 PM EDT

As expected, Browns quarterback Josh McCown will miss practice Wednesday due to the shoulder injury that knocked him out of last Sunday’s game in St. Louis.

Browns Coach Mike Pettine told reporters that McCown is “truly day to day” and that the team won’t make any decisions until it knows more about McCown’s availability. The team hasn’t shared the extent of the injury; Pettine said McCown “is sore and working through it.”

Monday, Pettine affirmed that McCown will start Sunday against the Cardinals if he’s able to. The team also listed a rib injury for McCown on its pre-practice injury report Wednesday.

Johnny Manziel, who’s been back in the news recently for other matters, will get the No. 1 reps in Wednesday’s practice, Pettine said.

Last month, Pettine was prepared to play McCown with one day of preparation after he left the season opener due to a concussion. McCown didn’t clear concussion protocol in time, so Manziel started against the Titans and won. McCown started the following week.

Is the guy breaking news or is he guilty of being lazy of not getting the facts right?

I caught that as well, and wondered the same thing.

YES! We are losing games because of Josh McCown.

Quarterback is the lifeblood of your team. He could sling around the field, complete 80% of his passes, and just plain look GOOD, but if he's not winning games, he's the problem.

The NFL doesn't quantify team records based on who starts at DT, CB, WR, RB, or TE. Tom Brady is 166-47 as starter, Peyton Manning is 185-77, Roethlisberger is 108-53. Josh McCown is 18-37. Yeah, I didn't think he was that good either.

McCown is what he is, a back-up quarterback.

Look around the league, there are 5 teams 6-0. Led by... Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Andy Dalton, and Cam Newton.

There are two teams out there who think they can get by without a franchise quarterback and without naming Houston, we're the other one.

Ok, is Johnny the answer? I don't think anyone can definitively say he is or is not. Is Josh McCown the answer? I would guess darn near 100% of anyone who is alive would say no. Oh that's right, he's a bridge quarterback. A bridge to what? To whom?

McCown doesn't play defense. Oh yes, that's right. In the 6 games he's started, the Browns have been BEHIND....EARLY! It's no excuse, I know, but if I'm a defender, or say a player that's been on a losing team for over 5-6 years and my team falls behind and Josh McCown is the guy who has to lead us out of the hole, then I'm not feeling too good about our chances.

A quarterback needs "IT" and McCown doesn't have "IT."

His receivers are too short! We need a taller receiver to help McCown. Oh yes, I'm sorry, because Travis Benjamin is the same height or taller than Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham, Steve Smith and T.Y. Hilton!

New England is 6-0 and their starting receivers are 5'11" Danny Amendola and 5'10" Julian Edelman. Steelers have 5'10" Antonio Brown and 5'11 Markus Wheaton starting. The Panthers are 6-0 and are they even starting any wide receivers? 5'11" Ted Ginn is the Panthers leading wide receiver. Browns are starting 5'11" Travis Benjamin and the 6'2" Brian Hartline.

Well... can't be the receivers then...

I wonder what the problem is with my Cleveland Browns...

Dallas Cowboys had an injury to their starting quarterback. But man, look at the back up, completing 72% of his passes! His stats are great! So if they were 2-0 with Romo they must be 6-0 with this back-up who has great stats, right?! What? They are 0-4 without Romo.... Man, the defense must really need to step up down there in Dallas, with those stats it's not the QB's fault!


The Browns need a quarterback. I don't care if he throws for 500 yards and 5 touchdowns in a game, McCown isn't the quarterback. So why are they wasting time playing a guy who is most certainly the reason they can't win football games?

I don't agree w/all of your points, but man, that's some strong writing. Love the passion and conviction that is screaming off of the page.

Man, so much speak of "urgency" this week in Berea.

Wonder what they did the past 3-4 months?

Urgent to conduct camp cupcake.

practiced their plays on Madden.

Exactly. Pettine's body language when his name comes up in the pressers tells me everything I need to know. Just trade JM and be done with him. Maybe we'll get a diamond in the rough.