DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Continuity...take three..just what was "the Steelers Way"?

Now there's a big problem. There appears to be a difference in the performance of duties when contrasting the Steelers front office, personnel, and coaching from ours.

They develop young players, and do it well. They had legendary, experienced coaches guiding their new head coaches. When Tomlin makes stupid mistakes he doesn't seem to repeat them. They seem to nip bad PR in the bud. With the exception of their QB raping chicks, they seem to squelch most disasters in a day or two.

Their fans are very committed to the cause. They hold everybody to a high standard. (Its killing me to write this, but I've seen it. Its true.) Whereas we attack each other, and argue when there are obvious problems, they don't tolerate them. If Tomlin is screwing the pooch, they let him know. The Browns Way? The Paul Brown era was one of innovation and dominance. The Kardiac Kids era was one of exciting offense, bend but don't break defense, and heart. The Marty era was one of great running backs setting up a lethal passing attack, with some stars on defense. Since 99 none of those qualities can be attributed to our franchise.

What's the Plan? In the words of my wife "CONTINUITY?" "Continuity for what?")

Is Mike Pettine doing a good job of getting the best out of his coordinators?

How long does his DAWGTALKERS honeymoon period last?

Has he managed the first round quarterback we drafted as well as other coaches would have handled him?

Olskool...just one problem...in a way, you are trying to compare apples to oranges.

The Steelers who started their program/plan/the Steelers Way, was Chuck Noll and Dan Rooney back in 1969. Many of the good points you make concerning the way the Steelers run their franchise is based on today and more recent times...not based on how the Steelers Way started out in 1969.

I've pointed out that Noll feel flat on his face, taking a team that had won 2 games the year before Noll arrived...and Noll turned that team into a 1-11-1 team his first season.


[color:#33CCFF] Is my contention that the Steelers success from 74-79 was orchestrated from a systematic steroid program that created half-crazed beasts who were pharmacologicaly induced cheap shot artists, in anyway responsible for their success? You know how Bellichick identifies a teams weakness and attacks it? My memories of the steelroids are that they would identify the opponents gamechangers and cheapshot them into concussed, crippled versions of the walking dead.

The Steelers had the first overall pick when Noll came in and picked Joe Greene..but with the second pick they draft Terry Hanratty..a clear miss. The Personnel department was not spectacular when the Steelers began their turnaround plan.

OK, but I'm not sure why that's important.

The Steelers had to go back and draft another QB in the second year of the plan, with the first pick of their 70 draft. Terry Bradshaw started 8 games and was horrible, hitting on 38% of his passes, 24 Ints (in 8 games), QBR of 30.4.


So, he was worse than Johnny. Yet, Noll was smart enough to know that Bradshaw was a gamer who had to learn by being out on the field and taking his lumps. The dawgtalker line that "Pet is smarter than you, Pet knows things we don't know, Johnny isn't ready," etc... worked for the past year and a half.

It doesn't wash anymore.

Many have lost faith in Pet's ability to be objective about Johnny, and ... his decision making ability. (Meaning Pet's decision making, not Johnny's)

Dan Rooney held the position of GM and he fired himself and brought in Dick Haley as GM in 1971. But Chuck Noll did not give up on Bradshaw.

The point is, the Steelers had their problems getting the Steeler Way to produce results..they had problems and made some mistakes, just like the Browns are having in year two of the Browns Way.
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Mac, that would be fine. But, it doesn't stop there. Is the "Browns Way" having most of the Brown's defensive players confused and not understanding why they are not used to the best of their abilities? Is the Browns Way having an offensive line, with top 5, top 3, top 2 talent unable to pass block or create open running lanes? Is the new Browns Way having wide receivers not used to their strengths? How long do we have to wait before the team comes out of the locker room at halftime and not have to overcome the fact that the opponents coaches are going to outcoach the hell out of our team in the second half? I could go on and on.


Brought in an OC who is doing a decent job with the talent he has.

This may not be fair, but I'll throw it out anyway. The other night I'm watching Jaws on NFL Matchup. He is focusing on the job, the very positive, noticeable improvements the current QB coach and OC for the Raiders has done this year with Derek Carr. He was very detailed and specific. Who was Carr's coach last year?

Another segment went over the ZBS of the Falcons and the effectiveness of their running attack/running back. Other Dawgs on the board have done a great job of detailing how our offensive line was built for this scheme. And, how well we did with it last year.

Once again, I could go on and on.


I think the honeymoon is over. Now, is everyone calling for Pettine's head? NO! Obvious some believe Pettine will get better. Just remember this, the Browns had a decent team last season...SOMEONE decided to make changes to that team and now we got what we got, for the remainder of this season.

Mac, is Pettine a winner? Can he lead us to the SuperBowl? Or, two consecutive playoff wins?


Johnny went to rehab in the off season after completely blowing his rookie season. That is not Pet's fault.

[color:#66FFFF]What if I laid out a detailed line of thinking, an opinion, suggesting it COULD be that he has been poorly utilized and handled? What if my point of view was that both Johnny and Josh Gordon may have been set up for failure? Possibly, purposely set up for failure? Dawgs can cuss and respond to me in anger, but that doesn't automatically mean that they are right. Some creepy things happened with Pet, Shanahan, Farmer and company last year. Many people on this board who gave Pettine the benefit of the doubt concerning Johnny, have been scratching their heads for the past two weeks. We are looking at Johnny, his strengths, his weaknesses, and we see he is only ever going to be "ready' once we get his a$$ on the field and he takes his lumps. Manziel senses coverage, he doesn't think about it. Does Pettine have a clue? Get Johnny on the field and then maybe film work will make somewhat of a difference. "We aren't there yet." Where yet Pet? How many elite, NFL QB's have you developed? Flip developed? How can anyone say that Pet has done it the right way? We will wait for "yet" to be determined. I'm starting to think that he has a vested interest in making sure "yet" never comes.

The Browns got rid of the QB who would not give up the starting job without a fight and brought in McCown..and Johnny is having trouble beating out him for the starting job. Why? Because McCown is so good in practice? Is Johnny a practice player? NO! NO he isn't. There are practice players, there are gamers, and there are both. I hope Pet understands that. Not sure he does.


Not Pet's fault if Johnny can't beat out McCown.At some point, Johnny will get what he wants..the starting job "given" to him, even though he can't beat out McCown.

I don't think that's fair. I'm not saying you are unfair. But, this line of thought that many have, is not necessarily the gospel. Used to be gospel on this board, but not any longer.

We will see Johnny and hopefully he can stay out of trouble and remember why he checked into rehab last summer.[/color]

Take a young, immature, hyperactive, winner and treat him, handle him the way the Brown's have done and maybe *&%#$ like that happens. Have a Jim Harbaugh, Norv Turner, Bill Bellichick, Mike McCarthy, develop him and maybe you have a winner. If Johnny is a winner, they probably would have brought it out last year. Just sayin.

Thanks, that's a good post.

This is gonna make for a long one, but I want to throw things out to comment on some of your comments. Once again, if my responses seem harsh, its just the way I write. I've tried to change, but it wasn't me. Thanks for putting yourself on the line. It allows me to get my point of view out more clearly.

My responses are in blue.

Except, the two paragraphs that start with [color] that didn't come out in blue although I didn't do anything different and am not able to fix it.

Haslam acknowledged that, indeed, his model for building theBrowns, at least initially, will be based largely on what he learned over the past three years working with the Rooney family while holding a 12.5 percent stake in Cleveland's AFC North rival.


Haslam, like Dan and Art Rooney, believes in long-term stability and continuity. As he evaluates the club, anyone he chooses to keep will be kept with more than the immediate future in mind. So guys like Shurmur and Heckert, aside from just winning, will have to show the new boss how they fit into the franchise's vision for the next decade.

Haslam is quick to note, too, that he isn't just cribbing from Pittsburgh on that. His chief officers in his lucrative truck-stop business have been with the company for 27, 24 and 16 years.

"That's the way our company has always looked at it," he said. "You get the right people in place and let them do their jobs."

And that explains why he believes so deeply in what he saw in Pittsburgh, where the Steelers have had just three coaches since the late 1960s. TheBrowns have had five since 1999, to go with four different general managers.

"It was great training being there," Haslam said. "They do it with character and intelligence. They run that organization the right way. They build through the draft. They're patient. It's just the right way to do it. It was a tremendous opportunity to be with them."

[quote]
I look at the Browns today and see a need for a new GM and the guy who is Haslam's right hand man should be a "football guy"..not a businessman lawyer.
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Fair enough. Two questions:

1) Are you convinced Farmer is the right guy?
2) I agree with building thru the draft. Again is Farmer the guy?

To be honest, I DON'T believe Farmer is the guy. All this talk about continuity. What are the thoughts on ROSTER continuity considering the players that were let go AND the guys who were brought in and the realistic number of years the Browns can get from them?

[quote=mac]

This statement is a point I have been ascribing to for a while. Alec is the only person Haslam trusts. If an NFL franchise were identical to other non-sports franchise business models, Haslam may be a great owner.

Exactly. Unfortunately, Haslam cannot be fired. I do wish he would sell the team.

Farmer needs to be fired.

The NFL will never allow another city to own a team like is the case with the Packers. Never.

Why do't we offer the Shanahans $15M a year to split however they want and make Mike the GM and Kyle the HC? I know, crazy. But we need grownups with real experience making draft and game day decisions.

His father would be huge improvement over Farmer on draft day.

Why do't we offer the Shanahans $15M a year to split however they want and make Mike the GM and Kyle the HC? I know, crazy. But we need grownups with real experience making draft and game day decisions.

I don't think your idea was bad. Look at the track record of those making fun of your idea. Believe me, you will feel much better.