DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 20 Arizona 34 What I saw Game 8

I saw:

--One team w/way more talent than the other. I try to caution people before the season when we don't have enough talent, but that's interpreted the wrong way. It bothers me because now many will put all the blame on Pet and he'll end up being the sacrificial lamb while the real culprit gets a pass. That's my rant, but us having inferior talent is definitely what I saw.

--Duke finally being decisive w/the ball and getting a huge gain. Of course, they ignored him after that. Crow w/a couple of good runs. Turbin looking like crap, but getting most of the snaps.

--Des Bryant w/a very nice game.

--Desir did not play that much, tab. I think Bademosi was playing in front of him. Wiliams definitely was.

--Haden is getting beat right off the LOS and/or on the first move.

--McCown made some very accurate throws w/real zip on them. He is very tough. He does hold the ball too long and makes some dumb pocket decisions. You do not do a reverse pivot to the left when your protection is rolling right.

--Gabriel made a couple of nice catches and Hartline had two TDs, but he did drop 3 passes.

--Marlon Moore played on offense before Bowe did.

--Johnny not understanding the situation when he came in.

--Kirskey's technique is horrid. Robertson is much better on defense.

--Starks got dominated. Shelton made one good play, but he isn't the force I thought he would be.

--A. Bryant has a good motor. He's still raw, but he plays hard.

--Gipson is a ball hawk.

--Schwartz had a second consecutive rough week. He absolutely whiffed on two blocks that both led to big hits on McCown.

--The fans were disguised as seats in the fourth quarter.

I agree, I've defended Pet a lot, this one is on him (and the staff).

Very good first half. Everybody I was with knew that we were going to go into an offensive shell and try to hang on for a win.

Not taking McCown out was laughable. I'm sure this will be a main point of conversation..... Arizona took their game to a whole other level as soon as they realized how bad McCown was hurt. And after McCown was hurt, we decided to never try to run the ball again. Let's just keep sending him back into the pocket, let's roll him out, let's make him scramble around... horrible, horrible, horrible.

Mentioned last week how much I hate our running back rotation. Why do we give the ball to Turbin? (or try to since most of the time he doesn't actually end up with the ball)...

I don't think our run defense is as bad as stats would indicate. It's like we stuff the run great on 4 out of 5 runs, then the 5th goes for big yardage. I can't explain it. Plus, other teams stick with the run, they stick with 1 RB who gets into the flow. We divide up our carries so nobody ever gets into a rhythm and abandon the run at the first sign of trouble.

Like the rest of the Browns, Hartline had a great first half, then dropped a couple easy ones in the second half when McCown was playing his heart out that would have been first downs.

We have a limited and inconsistent pass rush, which is a bad combination to have with a depleted and (not as good as advertised) secondary.

I became convinced yesterday that this staff would rather lose trying to do it "their way" than actually admit that what they are doing isn't working and try something else.

I saw a team pull out its infamous "collapse" and did exactly just that. I think before the third quarter, they had like 17 unanswered points and we got the ball at half to boot. They wiped away our lead about as quickly as possible.

Factoring the defensive turnovers the offense did nothing with, ouch.

I saw a 36 year old Qb just wincing in pain, yet a staff totally unwilling to pull him.

I saw our usual product, a crappy team.

i saw why pettine should be taking more heat than he is on this board.

i saw a coach full of pride refuse to pull an injured and struggling mccown in favor of manziel for whatever ungodly reason.

i saw a complete lack of imagination or adjustments in the second half.

i saw a coaching staff give more touches to a RB that fumbled twice over two solid RB's in crow and duke.

i saw a team that looked like they didn't even practice this week. how's that on Farmer, again?

I saw the Bryant bro's and williams bro's play really good football, but the rest of the defense was non existent.

I saw a "possession WR" dropped 3 easy ass passes.

Basically i saw a poorly coached team. we're gonna get destroyed on national TV thursday. pettine is gonna start manziel, throw him to the wolves, that way at the end of the game he can be like "see? told you so".

this team is trash. the GM sucks, the Coaching staff sucks.

oh, and i saw an O line struggling AGAIN.

Sorry, but if the O line is only good against bad defenses, then they aren't good to begin with. They should be good against good teams, not just trash ones.

More heat? He is taking almost all the blame for the loss by posters on this board.

I tried warning you guys BEFORE the season that we did not have enough talent. Not many wanted to hear it. Oh, we were building it the right way. We finally have a plan. We are a team of destiny. Things feel different this year. Blah, blah, blah.

Those euphoric delusions of grandeur inevitably led to blame game assassination of Petine.

Changing coaches and keeping the talent evaluator is going to do nothing but prolong the agony.

I predicted 5-11 because you can't win in this league without a QB.

There were never any rose colored glasses over here.

But I am surprised at how awful Pettine has been. There's enough talent on this team not to look like the second worst team in the league which is exactly what we are.

who said anything about keeping the GM? not me.

the fact of the matter is this: we have the highest paid defense in the league. and we regressed.

so you can say what you want about Farmer. I agree, but you need to acknowledge that maybe pettine doesn't know crap about developing talent.

I give Mingo ton of heat, but you know what? he still had 5 sacks his rookie season. under pettine, he's regressed.

Kruger has regressed under pettine. Haden has regressed, Whitner has regressed.

Dansby was a solid to above average LB in the league. since coming here? blah.

so you see where i'm going with this? you can cry about Farmer all you want, but the lack of execution, the undisciplined penalties throughout this season, the bone headed time management, and the decision to not play manziel over mccown, even when injured, falls ALL on pettine.

Oh I agree. I hate starting over with another regime, but Farmer has had too many screwups in the draft, and FA.

Whatever my expectations had been prior to the season do not matter; I think Pettine makes too many dumb decisions. The two-point convert, the stupid challenge yesterday, his refusal to yank Josh yesterday despite his obvious pain. All coaches make mistakes, but pett doesn't seem to have any sideline prescience. No fire - not that I can see.

Sigh. Tough being a Browns fan.

The offensive line struggles run to block. These exact same guys were great at it last year (when Mack was healthy).

What does that tell us?

coaching.

and i've said that before plenty of times. if we have a finesse o line, then maybe we should've hired a OC that runs a zone blocking scheme like shanny did.

i understand it wouldn't had been the same as last year. i get it. but we don't have the o line that can straight up bully people man on man. so why do we continue to run it?

square peg round hole.

Swish.........I am frustrated because I see where this is going. It's not about you. It's about the general consensus.

I do think Pet has flaws. Heck bro, wasn't I about the first to point those out? Didn't I take a crap load of heat for it?

I think it will be a monumental mistake to keep Farmer and fire Pet. I am NOT saying that is what you want, but the spin coming out of Berea is going to be that we have good talent but Pet can't develop them.

I don't know if Pet can develop them or not, but we are not a talented team. We simply cannot afford to allow Farmer to be in charge of acquiring talent for another season.

Alright, I better stop w/this line of talk on this thread. tab is going to get mad. LOL

ive agreed with you before on Farmer. we are in complete agreement with Farmer. No way in hell do i want him running another draft.

But why is it that other DC's/HC have gotten the most out of some of the players on our Defense, but under pettine they've all damn near regressed?

the entire team.

i mean think about it. We got a bunch of WR 5'10 and under. ok...problem. but shanny got the most out of them to the point they wasn't a problem, remember?

we ran bubble screens, slants, 5 yard outs. shanny took full advantage of their quickness and route running, and then the bombs gabriel was catching last year.

but now we got an OC that is calling plays like we got 6'2 WRs out there, with a QB that has a history of holding the ball too long. we're doing 7 step drop backs, long developing routes with small ass WRs. That's part the reason McCown is getting sacked. the other is his own decision making, and our shaky o line.

thats all coaching man.

Yeah sorry tab, I forgot which thread I was in when replying to Vers. hahaha.

Desir played one snap.

But he looked awesome.

fixed.

I'm coming around.. I've defended Pet many times.. but yesterday it just seemed like a light came on for me... this staff is going to spend all year trying to pound a square peg in a round hole and force this team to try to win the way the coaching staff wants to win... rather than actually use the talent we have in any kind of a creative way or change their philosophy to match the personnel that we have..

yep.

and we've seen this movie over and over again.

forget it....

Seems like they all got washed up over the course of one year. All five of them. Crazy, right?

I was pretty much laughed at around here when I said the Oline will struggle this year before the season started. Even the all knowing OZ wouldn't agree.

I kept an eye on Pet yesterday..Kept pointing it out to Peen as we were sitting in our seats..

Pet was so distant from the team and coaches... He stood all alone as far away as possible..And of course with his arms wrapped around or his hands in his pockets showing no emotion.

When he would walk from one end of the field to the other... he was 3 yds out in the field walking past the players and coaches not even giving them a glance..

Several times I saw coaches walk up to him and he turned his back on them and walked away... I was thinking what an ass..

I told Peen look over at the Cards bench... The Coaches were all huddled around each other discussing the game...

Pet being so distant from everyone seems odd.. he acts like he's all that..I'm not sure how it affects the winning or losing... But it seems to me a HC should act like he wants to be more involved and act like you give a crap..

I don't know... maybe it's nothing.. But it sure had me wondering...How are you suppose to build a team attitude and winning one...When your showing the team and coaches that you want to be alone..

What talent are you speaking of.

It sounds good to say catchy things like square peg and round hole, but do you really know that is what is going on, or do [and all the others] just know that it isn't working and you gotta blame the most likely candidate?

It isn't "all coaching." It's some coaching, but mostly, it's a lack of talent.

My son is not a Brown's fan. We were talking the other day and he said......who do you guys have that scares anyone? Who do other teams have to game plan for? Who is an impact player on your team.

I said....Joe Thomas can impact the game, but damn man......who do we have that teams are afraid of? Who are the impact players? Do we have ANYONE that teams specifically have to game plan for?

We have "guys." Guys are good, but you need impact players on your roster to go along w/your guys. We do not have one dominant player that can change the course of a game. Not one.

But yeah, keep blaming the coaches, guys.

I saw an offense that looked focused in the first half.

I saw a defense that looked pretty focused the first half.

Then I saw the implosion.

I saw a coach that was far too focused on "his guys" (McCown, Turbin), than to do what's right for the team. When you combine Turbins fumbles and McCowns injury, neither of them should have been on the field.

I saw a QB in McCown that may have actually been concussed out there playing. A QB in pain to the point that what ever the injuries are, clearly effected his game to the point he should have been pulled. To the point that I'm opening my mind up to the possibility that Pettine simply doesn't not have any faith, possibly bordering on a personal dislike for Manziel.

I agree with what others have mentioned. I see the talent level of this team as a prime reason why we can't allow Farmer to lead another draft.

I see a HC who can not use the talent available to their strengths. I also question his ability to develop and instill any discipline in the players we have.

I see a mess that will have to be sorted out.

Coaching for the Browns is like shinning poop.

Vers, we don't so much disagree with the talent level, but we do disagree with the coaching part, I think. lol

Penalties are dependent on discipline. The fact our D scheme keeps regressing is dependent on coaching. The fact the Pettine has always had problems against the run has to do with scheme. Leaving an injured QB on the field is coaching. Insisting on playing Turbin when he's not securing the ball is coaching.

I have kept hoping to see improvements in Pettine but I'm just not seeing it. He doesn't coach to win, he coaches not to lose. I don't expect him to win a lot of games with the talent he has. But I do expect him to be competent at his job. I'm just not seeing it.

I kept an eye on Pet yesterday..Kept pointing it out to Peen as we were sitting in our seats..

Pet was so distant from the team and coaches... He stood all alone as far away as possible..And of course with his arms wrapped around or his hands in his pockets showing no emotion.


This. I was wondering if it was just me. But in the Rams? game or whoever it was that was missing 3 starting OL, after the first drive where our D was man-handling them, I noticed their coaches all gathered around their lineman and going over charts or graphs. I was thinking our coaches never do that. The players just run off the field and stand and the coaches just stand there staring off into space. The only one who gets involved is the OC with the QB. Nobody else seems to care.

Pretty much my thoughts as well. Pettine and Farmer both need to go. Hopefully Haslem hires a new GM and then lets him pick his own HC. Pettine was Haslem/Banner's guy not Farmers, and I think that has lead to a lot of the rumors we hear about a riff between the two.

Farmer just hasn't done enough in acquiring difference makers....batting .000 on 1st round picks is bad especially when you had four of them. I see no redeeming quality in Pettine as well.....keeping Josh in yesterday was bush league and I lost respect for him.

I'm ready for the end of they year already when we can escort these clowns out the door.

How freaking crazy is it that I am probably going to end up being one of the very few that says we should maintain some sense of continuity?

Gawd, this team makes my head--and heart--hurt.

I find myself in the same boat. Jules made a very good post about wanting to care like back in the good ol days but not quite getting there, I feel like that. I want to care, I want to be mad and upset, but were such a mess right now that I wish they just blow it all up and start over, couldn't be any worse.

I can't remember the last time I literally didn't care ONE bit if we won or lost. I probably watched less than half of our game and was more focused on other stuff going on ... and I'm someone who religiously watches each game each year.

The apathy is growing on me, and I'm assuming it's growing on all of you guys to varying levels.

It's sad that my one true sports passion has turned into this

I know what you mean. Here I have tried to stay away from Vers. because I was afraid of being pulled into the dark side. Now, it seems, Vers. might really be a bright spot Have mercy on our doomed souls

I've never seen it like this.

If Jimmy was to blow the whole thing up, who would he bring in? Who?

Would he ever consider selling?

I can't believe this post isn't getting more traction. If nothing else, the observations are interesting.

Diesel, was this your first game? If not, did you notice this before?

.

Not sure if it was covered in this thread or Good, Bad, and Ugly, but I thought that Gipson was the only defensive player on the field who stopped guys once he wrapped them up, and prevented them from falling forward for an extra 2-3 yards.

There was also one statement tackle from the rookie safety.

Maybe we should bring back Schottenheimer as Executive Head Coach or some such made up title and let him teach Pet how to be a head coach.