DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Mr. James Arthur Haslam the Third

Once upon a time, I despised the thought of Josh McDaniels as coach of this team. I laughed when Denver hired him. But now that he's done it and failed, I wonder if he would be better the second time around. I could get on board with McDaniels if it shook out that way.

I'll be honest, as we all discuss possible GMs and HCs, I wouldn't be totally surprised if no one is fired. That's just crazy enough to happen in Berea.

I was looking back to see what some of the press was around the time that the Browns and Dolphins were both interested in Farmer. Below is a doozy from Haslam about Farmer:

"I’ll be surprised if Ray’s not a GM in the next few years, which will be good and bad news for us," Browns owner Jimmy Haslem said during the 2013 NFL owner's meetings, according to the Akron Beacon Journal.

He was half right: Ray Farmer is a GM but it's only been BAD for us!!

link:http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2014/01/dolphins-leading-gm-candidate-ray-farmer.html

Didn't Jimmy already say that he would not fire them at the end of the season?

Nothing Short of Cowher or Parcells is going to fix this mess.

It took Reggie White to pull the Packers out of their slump...we need someone of a simliair caliber

Right now there are only 3 people alive that can turn the Browns around:

1. Marty Schotenheimer
2. Bill Cowher
3. Bill Parcells

thats it, its a very short list...out of the guys on that list...id want Marty back....Marty has yet to get a Super Bowl, so it make sense...and Marty coached teams don't look like the trash we have put out on the field for the last 12 years...that snot tolerated by Marty...he has a track record of proving that type of play is not tolerated...

Back the brinks truck up to Harbaugh's house and give him the 10 year dream deal.

I just wanted to add that I think Haslam will go with a college coach. Targeting guys like Saban, Sumlin, Myers. His choice was chip Kelly last time and that didnt work out for one reason or another and then he just kinda left it up to Banner and Lombardi. this time around, its gonna be his guy and I believe he is gonna hit the college ranks for the next coach of the Browns.

Harbaugh is the guy I would target. I think Haslam goes with the college guy but the team Harbaugh took over was in a defeatist mode as bad as the Browns. he changed the culture whether people liked it or not.

Harbaugh would be a dream scenario.

Which Harbaugh? I'll take John; Jim is a spaz. Anyway, aren't they both under contract?

No problem with you questioning my opinion, but shouldn't you give me some specifics? Put yourself on the line so I can respond to your opinion.

The NFL screwed us by giving our franchise to a credit card issuing banker guy named Lerner whose expertise was sucking the blood out of naïve consumers via the unproductive product of interest/usery. Does the NFL give the franchise to the group headed by Bill Walsh, or any of the other experienced groups that were interested? No. Give it to Learner and take away all the draft advantages that Jacksonville and Carolina had to build their franchises. Give Cleveland the other teams orchestrated, low end, free agent, veterans that they have all year set up so they don't lose anybody of value. Learner won't mind. The others might have.

Learner never should have been given our franchise. Screw job #1! The reason why the owners gave it to him and not someone who was competent to run an NFL franchise is only known by those present in the back room.

Learner screwed us by bringing in Carmen Policy (a slickster with no history of talent other than letting Bill Walsh alone so he could do his job. Set us back? We've never recovered from it.

Policy screwed us by bringing in Dwight Clark. Dwight looked good in a suit. He also was a good tight end. His inexperience and ineptitude as a GM and personnel guy is legendary beyond imagination. We've never recovered.

Who did Policy and Clark bring in to lead the new Browns franchise? There was even talk of Walsh. Lets hit the ground running with a big hire.

We brought in Arnold Palmer or somebody like that. Actually Arnie had established himself as a champion, that would be unfair to compare him to the guy these charlatans brought in to be the new Head Coach. Screwed from the beginning we were.The smartest guy in the room must have made that decision. Hope Policy and Clark weren't Browns fans. Suspect they weren't.

Learner died and screwed us by giving us to his little boy Jr. Jr. neglected the franchise worse than Dad. But, "he tossed money around" and that satisfied most Dawgs who think the way you do Peen. Jr. really, really set us back with the decisions he made.

Must be my opinion, because the owner can't affect all the things olskool considers Jr. responsible for.

Junior gave us Romeo and Mangini. Screw job? In my opinion, yes. I am a victim of my unreasonably high standards of what it takes to be the Head Coach of the Browns.

Junior then screwed us by bringing in the Big Show for a 5 million a year retirement.

The Walrus? He screwed us by not coaching the team like everyone with a lick of common sense thought he was going to do. Junior, Junior was enjoying a pint with his supporters at Aston Villa. No accountability needed.

Hey Walrus, who needs you, Gruden, Cowher, or ???? when Pat Shurmur, your good buddies nephew,is available? He will build a Super Bowl contender. It won't set us back.

So Junior, in his mercy, sells the team. I rejoice!

Does he screw us? He sells to Jimmy.

First thing Jimmy does is screw us royally. He surrounds himself with his idea of the best football people around. Our Browns are now in the hands of Lombanner.

Lucky us, Lombanner are going to bring in Saban, Cowher, Chuckie, McNuggets, Gase, etc... We are going to worship to the gospel of continuity. The problem seems that top guys don't think as highly of Lombanner as we are indoctrinated to believe. This could set us back. We are sold that Chud will be better than any of those guys. Like good little followers,we allow the honeymoon to commence, and Chud doesn't seem too bad -- above average with two really effective coordinators. Hope for the future, at least if LomFarmBanner doesn't screw the pooch with draft picks like.. Bark Mingo or something. Nevermind, screwed again.

Was LomFarmBanner really the best that Jimmy Haslam could do? Really? He could afford to bring in the top, top guys. Were they really as good as it gets?

Were we screwed? Well, there are two scenarios that transpired. One is that Jimmy looked down on the field, saw Chud as the face of his multi-billion dollar operation and decided he needed to upgrade, the other being that LomFarmBanner convinced Jimmy that last year was just an anomaly, and now we can deliver Saban, Cowher, Chuckie, Gase, McNuggets, Harbaugh, jeez Jimmy, which one do we want?

We can fire Chud and be confident that the masses will understand once LomFarmBanner delivers the big name coach that has eluded us since ... since... well since Paul Brown.

Jimmy trusted, listen to, believed in LomFarmBanner and showed his level of professional competence and instincts.

Screwed. Screwed again.

Lowest moment in Browns history with the obvious exception of (ugh,hmm the last OWNER before 99) the heist.

Now, in the midst of the worst PR debacle in Cleveland history, Jimmy tries to save face by making heads roll. The problem is, he in essence, replaces Banner with Ray Farmer. The Dolphins play us like the Jags did with Mack, we bit, and we get a guy whose greatest talent is to draft 2nd rounders in the first, 3&4th rounders in the seond, and 4th and 5th round talent in the third. Ray simply is not GM material. We are screwed. Lets hire a coach!

Jimmy, yes Jimmy is blown away by the interview of the Defensive Coordinator from the Bills. I remember how a year earlier he was blown away by the interview of Chud.

Mind you, I am still defending Jimmy on this board.

Reality is, Mike Pettine may be the only guy willing to take the job. 15 years of being screwed has dampened somewhat the prestige of being the coach of the Cleveland Browns.

Does Jimmy screw us? I admit, I liked the whole: his Dad coached High School for 40 years, he's a straight shooter, hard nosed disciple of Rex, tough guy from Philly, blah blah blah thing. I think that can be successful in Cleveland Ohio. But... but to be a Head Coach in the National Football League requires an extremely talented guy with all kinds of refined qualities and abilities. You almost have to be somewhat gifted. We settled. We screwed.

We are screwed if he can't really manage his coordinators and position coaches the way a top professional guy can. We are screwed if he can't balance coaching the team, bringing all units together to function almost as one, we are screwed if he can't develop young players, we are screwed if he can't make players better, we are screwed if he handles young talent in the wrong way and we just have to accept it as being the right way, we are screwed if he isn't a top man manager, we are screwed if he can't make halftime adjustments, we are screwed if he actually is a Defensive Coordinator filling a Head Coach position. The Head Coach of the Cleveland Browns.

But, continuity. Jimmy's not gonna blow it all up.

Jimmy is not responsible. Junior was not responsible. Al was not responsible. Arthur wasn't responsible. Maybe I'm responsible.

Peen, you Daman, Toad, and everybody else who has exposed me for being clueless when it comes to the effects of bad leadership from the top guy in the organization, and how they really don't have that much influence on the product that ends up on the field, you guys must be right. Although the reasons are still a mystery, you must be right.

A spaz who developed Andrew Luck.

A spaz that took Stanford from being a Division 1 laughing stock to National Title contender in like a year.

A spaz who took a hopeless Alex Smith and almost had him in the Pro Bowl the first year he coached him.

A spaz who took a 23 year old basket case and had him Quarterback his team to two consectutive playoff wins and a good performance in the NFC title game his first year on an NFL field. A spaz with no NFL coaching experience, who had just taken over a team with a losing record, and immediately turned it around to championship level?

A spaz who took that same Quarterback and in the next year was in the Super Bowl -- with the Quarterbacks style redefining the game.

The spaz that took over a weak Michigan program, with dubious talent, and had it in the top ten in three months.

That Spaz?


#I hate winners

I don't believe these are the only guys that would be able to fix things in Cleveland. I also believe all of these guys may have been away from the game too long now, at least to come back as a coach.
And which one of these guys would even consider the job?
We need a President of football operations who actually knows football and has enough respect around the league to counter all of the shenanigans the last two-three years. This guy must decide if he wants Farmer and/or Pettine back and also whether he wants Manziel on the team going forward as that decision could effect a future coaching/GM selection.

Hire Bill Polian as the President of football operations and Peyton Manning as GM/President of football operations in training.

Epic post. I don't agree with everything you said but the passion in which you laid it all out is commendable.

This spaz ...

He's got good teeth.

I think that the Chud era could have turned this around. The problem is that he never had the opportunity to establish his culture. His coordinators had proven success and I'm sure we wouldn't have the mess we have today had we allowed Chud and Co the opportunity to build something. The problem was that Chud wasn't the big name hire and Banner was so sure we could do better.

When Pettine was hired, we all knew we were settling with that fat kid nobody wants on your team. We missed out on Zimmer, O'brien, Arians, and Chip Kelly. Why would these guys come to Cleveland when Haslam did the unthinkable and fire a HC after one season?

Now we are stuck because of this promise of "continuity." Haslam won't fire anybody, not because we doesn't want to, but because he can't. He has handcuffed himself and backed himself in a corner when he fired Chud after only 1 season. Nobody with clout will come here knowing how quick to fire and hotheaded Haslam is. It will be impossible to establish any kind of winning culture because of the losers that have permeated this organization with their funk. While we as fans can fantasize about the Cowers and the Chuckies that we need to turn this around, it will never happen in the real world. We will be stuck with inexperienced GMs that think they are smarter than everybody, college coaching prospects, and their green coordinators who will "grow into their roles."

I have now come around and accepted that this team will continue to reside in the cellar of the AFC North and NFL for a long time to come, possibly decades. While other organizations can draw in experienced guys, we will have to rely on luck. Cleveland is one of the least desirable places to play and the stench of losing is everywhere.

If you think Harbaugh is willing to leave a cushy Michigan job where they idolize him, you are either dreaming or smoking that good stuff.

Re-read that part of the thread and you will see that isn't what I was saying.

Good post above that one.

Harbaugh is a winner. I agree. There is a reason why I think Harbaugh will be associated with the likes of Meyer and Saban if he can ever beat OSU and build Michigan into a winner.

I don't know that I have ever done that. I have always liked most of your posts.


My only point is to be a owner of a NFL team you have to meet 2 criteria:

1. You have the $billion or so...be it liquid or partially leveraged.

2. You are agreed upon by the club of 32 that you would be a good addition.

That's it. I am not going to research the issue....I know Jerry Richardson with Carolina played in the NFL. Other than that, maybe a few played some college ball, but most are simply good business people who have a bunch of money to spend.

I don't think many have any real pedigree as it comes to football. I think it is mostly luck as to who gets people around them who can help, and those who keep seeking coaches and GM's.

No diss intended my friend. I am simply saying that Haslam hasn't shown any reluctance to spend the money his people, even if wrong, ask him to spend. To me, that makes him a good owner.

I agree with you there Peen. Those are the requirements to "become an owner".

But further than that we disagree. As you said, anyone with the capital and approval of the other owners get to be an owner. As an owner, to try and have a good team, you must be willing to spend the money. Yet anyone with the money can do that.

What makes an owner a good owner, to me, is someone who can identify and hire the right people to make that team succeed.

Now Jimmy hasn't had as lot of time to learn that and employ that. So I'm not dogging him as an owner to this point. But how he progresses in that department will decide whether he turns out to be a good owner or not IMO

j/c

I have not read many of the post, but I'll give my two cents.

First, with the current jobs becoming available, there is no way Cleveland/Haslam hires any credible replacements. It'll be another set of rookies. Once again, does Haslam catch lightening in bottle getting two rookies who can make the Browns a winner in two years! Since 1999, Browns haven't found a pair yet. Odds are pretty good he strikes out.

Second, Haslam is already on the hook paying two former head coaches and general managers. Firing these two and hiring another will mean he will have four sets on his payroll.

Third, hiring rookies means just that rookies. Not many rookies in anything hit it out the park their first few years. Especially being Cleveland were top candidates are not lining up seeking employment. Trust me Gruden or Cowher are not taking the job.

Another HC/GM means another complete rebuild starting just below owner all the way down. It took Farmer and Pettine two seasons to get their staff in order. As you can see, they were not able to hire experience. New guys, once again, will hire a rookie staff.

Even when Browns hired experience, Chud's group, it didn't produce favorable results. I wondered given another year or two what might have happen.

It is painful. Right or wrong this organization simply needs to continue building. It'll be a complete gamble with odds staked against Haslam hires a winning combination.

j\c Probably one of the best offensive minds in football is Bernie K. Can any of you dawgs help me understand why he was never offered any position by the browns to help the offensive side of this team? Seems like a no brainer to me

Agreed. It's like being any good owner/CEO. Anybody with money can buy a business, but for it to be successful good owners hire quality people to make the company work.

Lerner for instance never hesitated to spend money, and repeatedly tried to hire what he deemed to be the best people available. However, ultimately Randy failed because he couldn't identify FO/coaching talent. Haslem at this point is 0-2 as far as regimes go. I don't think we have enough information to call Jimmy a bad owner yet, but we certainly can't call him a good owner either.

The next hire at the end of the year is HUGE for Jimmy, and he needs to get it right.

I think the documented issues of alcohol abuse and a poor financial history has some concerned that it would be indicative of bad decision making for our football team.

I don't doubt Bernie knows offensive football and I don't doubt he has a passion for the Browns. Not sure what either of those are worth when being a top executive building a talent base or changing a culture in an organization. To add a bit more, I think many of Bernie's business ventures haven't turned out so well. So, there is that too.

I don't know if Bernie would be good or bad. I just think there is a lot of dirty laundry out there that has some nervous...and rightfully so, if you ask me.

....but we hire George Kokinis....lol. I don't want Bernie because he has zero executive experience and this organization doesn't need another experiment. I do find his past substance abuse problems being used as an excuse ironically hypocritical when we had to can a guy 6 months on the job for being a total drunk. It's also hypocritical to use bad business practices against him when our owner avoided indictment from the Feds for his business practices by the slimmest of margins.

It would be hypocritical if the Browns came out and said those are factors in not offering him a position, which they won't. It would also be hypocritical if it was the same regime that hired Kokinos, which it isn't. And, although Pilot Flying J has been in trouble, it is NOT a failed business venture.

I don't get where the hypocritical thing is coming from. Bernie has never been given a serious shot by several regimes. I think there are legit reasons for that.

Bernie never wanted to coach full time when his kids were younger, because he did not want to be that wrapped up in his job on a 24/7 basis. Bernie was always far more interested in being involved in management.

I like Bernie, but his personal issues would make me consider him a non-candidate for a management position w/the team.

I wish people would stop talking about Bernie being a coach or in the front office.

If that was going to happen, it would have started 20-25 years ago.

I also want to add that Bernie faces another difficulty .... that being that he has been out of football for a very, very long time. He also has never really wanted to start at the bottom, and work his way up.

It seems to me that there was one regime that asked him about being a scout, or something, and Bernie said that he did not want to spend that much time on the road.

I think that he has always wanted to start at the top .... and not many do that. Even Ozzie, one of the best in the business today, started in scouting before moving up in the Ravens organization.

Not sure, but I think you have me confused with someone else. I don't know for sure if I ever had that kind of conversation with you. At least not directly related to you.

Sorry if you took anything I wrote to mean that. It wasn't meant that way. I don't even think I use the word "clueless" much if ever.

Daman,

Sorry, clueless was my expression to make a point. That's on me. I'm not implying you came out and called anybody a name.

Back in the days when I was the lone wolf wailing about Junior, you were one of the group who maintained a "he spends money, stays out of it, and that is what we want from an owner" front. Now, that's a paraphrase, but you and I differed on the damage caused by Junior and his decisions, lack of leadership, and involvement in holding senior people accountable. I saw him as an absentee owner. I don't see many absentee owners winning Super Bowls. What he and his Dad did, didn't work.

Junior was a very weak owner, at a time, when we needed a strong owner.

I want an owner who spends money. I also want an owner who allows football people to make the football decisions. But, I want one who is in the building, who takes responsibility, who is there to show everybody that he's involved. To show that he cares. To show that he's watching. I want a leader.

Strong leadership has been totally absent from the Browns since Shottenhiemer left.

Im tired of them hiring dweebs like farmer..little butt smucher,knows nothing of football..just another puppet for Jimmy to control.
Jimmy doesnt only look like a crook..hes not very good at concealing it.
Dont really care anymore,lets stay home next home game,and meet somewhere to watch the game..stadium empty.a million dollars concessions spent elsewhere..huge party like at the old stadium..we can buy a lot of real food and alcohol with a million.
Love to see jimmy face when the stadium is totally empty!