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"TRADE RUMOR" big difference from an actual fact that now 12 hours later I have heard 3 versions of how it MIGHT HAVE WENT DOWN.
You wish to react on every rumor...btw - do you know the only FACT you can count on.
WE DID NOT TRADE JOE THOMAS...mean while you are claiming all that you stated was correct...lol well except for the ACTUAL FACT JOE was not traded.
...you went from THAT, to ENDORSING THE DEAL a few hours later, writing this...On PAPER its not a bad deal for us.
You can continue to flip flop and deny that you were wrong to discredit those who were just posting the news.
THE THREE STOOGES did try to trade Joe Thomas...
...now you can go back to denying it like it never happened. I'll just set back and watch you flip flop like a fish out of water 
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Ummm Mac I called it nothing but Rumors cause guess what??? IT WAS NOTHING BUT RUMORS.
Endorsing? Again you have a serious reading problem that reads a sentence and then you go put your title to it. I stated that it actually doesn't look bad on Paper. I then went on to say WHY I DID NOT ENDORSE IT...ooops just a slight error on your part...smh just stop...not ahead but not dug into a silly hole yet.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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If it was just Grossi I wouldn't put much stock into it, but Lane Adkins has been tweeting about it for months, and he is most of the time spot on. He insists that although Farmer/Pettine certainly have not helped themselves, that Haslem and the "suits" as he calls them have really undermined them. He maintains that JH is the biggest problem with the organization, and that it starts from the top down.
Grossi I don't put much stock in, but LA does have some sources with the team and is usually spot on.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Mac...I don't know I would say they tried to trade him. I think it more the Broncos wanted to trade for Joe. If we had wanted to trade him, we would have.
We entertained the Broncos, they made a offer, we said no, it has to be more. We obviously value Joe more then did Denver.
As for the 3 stooges, I think it is more like one...Farmer. I think Scheiners name is involved because Haslam needs another set of eyes and he(they) are trying to figure out if Farmer, Pettine, or both is the problem.
I will agree there is probably a lot of finger pointing and manuvering to catch Jimmies ear. In the end I always believe that talent is the key factor, and Farmer is responsible for that...at least as far as we know. If I could make the call, I would dump Farmer, put Scheiner over everything except for player decisions. I would give that to Pettine and give him a solid assistant who isn't on the coaching staff so that person could concentrate on college and pro players we might want.
This is exactly why I don't like a GM who picks the players and a coach who has little say. When things turn sour, you have no question as to where to point the finger. You eliminate all the backstabbing, finger pointing, etc.
Another benefit is it strengthes the coach with the players. As it is, coach may not play them, but he more or less can't let them go. If you give the coach the final stamp of approval, everything become very clear.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Now, just to be fair towards Farmer, possibly Pettine has be one to give his stamp of approval and moves have been made as he wishes, We don't know that, but Haslam would. If that is the case, I would remove Pettine if we lose tomorrow. Certainly during the bye week.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Clem is right. It reads like a soap opera.
I am not even sure what to say about all of this. It's almost beyond my comprehension. How can one franchise constantly be so dysfunctional? It doesn't seem to matter who the owner is. Who the team president is. Who the GM is. Who the coach is. It's constant dysfunction. Just proves again that just because somebody is rich doesn't mean they are necessarily smart. The lack of leadership in Berea since 1999 is simply mind boggling...much to the dismay of Browns fans everywhere.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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[quote=Versatile Dog]Clem is right. It reads like a soap opera.
I am not even sure what to say about all of this. It's almost beyond my comprehension. How can one franchise constantly be so dysfunctional? It doesn't seem to matter who the owner is. Who the team president is. Who the GM is. Who the coach is. It's constant dysfunction. When I look at the Cleveland Browns organization, there is only one person, 1 that is untouchable. Only one that needs to stay, outside of a complete and total blow up, which I currently welcome. We just tried to trade him. WTF?
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How can one franchise constantly be so dysfunctional? It doesn't seem to matter who the owner is. Who the team president is. Who the GM is. Who the coach is. It's constant dysfunction. Consider this: Perhaps you're looking at the wrong side of the equation. Is there a chance that any "dysfunction" is not at the team's side, but rather on us, as fans, who perceive and interpret things incorrectly? Yep, the fans are to blame for the Browns losing every year. Great call. How very perceptive.  Wait a minute! You seemed to imply the mind-boggling (im)possibility of the dysfunctionality of the past owners, Team Presidents, etc. I therefore presented an alternative, that we may be misinterpreting things that were never there in the first place. Open up your mind to other possibilities...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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... 32 is making it sound like Farmer is doing a great job and the fans are to blame. That's utter nonsense; you are just stirring the pot. I put an alternative out there to your "woe is us". You took this out of context (again)...  . And as far as Farmer goes, he wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't explore all avenues...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 11/04/15 01:17 PM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Ray Farmer, Joe Thomas, Alec Schreiner and Mike Pettine
4 names, at least two won't be with the Browns next season
Place your bets...
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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Pettine and Farmer are goners.
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Giants
Titans
Dolphins
Whose next? Does our talent base allow us to wait until the last minute to find a guy who will lead us to the Super Bowl?
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Let's add:
USC
USC (South Carolina)
Miami
(These guys pay more than NFL coaches make, so might as well.)
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Let's not start that crap again. I despised it last time and I'll despise it again. There is no need for such monikers.
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That's utter nonsense; you are just stirring the pot. I put an alternative out there to your "woe is us". Nice. You have gone off the deep end. Bye.
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At least have the decency of growing a set and address that straight to my face Why? You know who it was meant for and you will go into full denial mode either way. lol It did not happen - all I know is there was no trade But yet....... But it was Denver who had to juggle money to make room for JT's contract not us. So they messed up. I just hope this possible trade does not damage our relations with our players and the OL is a very tight unit.
In this day and age of cyber stuff how does a deal that they wish to make not get done. Obviously it would be on Denver as they had to juggle money. Their Loss.
I'm glad the deal wasn't done. They would have had to deal a lot more than JOE T...it would be a domino effect if we are tearing it down...then tear it down.
What I don't like about it - this is no longer Pettine's team Farmer has taken control. This sucks! See, for the most part we agree Tab. Denver couldn't juggle cap room to make the deal and Farmer certainly didn't seize the opportunity in his presser to deny the deal. Say what you will, there were clear details of the deal coming out of Denver. It wasn't just cyber ramblings. Oh and Tab, I've got a set. I just understand some don't have the guts needed to face them. lol I mean if you want to be your nasty self as you have been as of late. Grow a set? Are you in high school or something? lmao
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Eww boy the fan base is restless again. Hope a JM win fixes this or a dawg is going to get kicked about.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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All Pro
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Ray Farmer, Joe Thomas, Alec Schreiner and Mike Pettine
4 names, at least two won't be with the Browns next season
Place your bets... Who's to say it won't be 3?
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If that is true, and the Broncos dumped the deal for Thomas because they wanted a 4th, and could only get a 5th round pick in the deal ...... Well, I just refuse to believe that they are that stupid. I mean, really ...... then refused to trade for a Hall of Fame LT, with 3 VERY team friendly years left on his deal, because the Browns wouldn't move off of a 5th round pick in favor of the 4th the Broncos wanted? I simply do not believe that Elway is that dumb.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I simply do not believe that Elway is that dumb.
There has got to be more (or possibly a lot less) to this than we are hearing. It's difficult to believe the "trade" fell through over a 4/5th round pick. Perhaps Farmer was simply doing his "due diligence" in listening to the Bronco's inquiry...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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If that is true, and the Broncos dumped the deal for Thomas because they wanted a 4th, and could only get a 5th round pick in the deal ...... Well, I just refuse to believe that they are that stupid. I mean, really ...... then refused to trade for a Hall of Fame LT, with 3 VERY team friendly years left on his deal, because the Browns wouldn't move off of a 5th round pick in favor of the 4th the Broncos wanted? I simply do not believe that Elway is that dumb. And that's the issue - no-one knows what happened and what didn't .... And none of us know if the stories in the media are put out there becuse Denver FO wants to be perceived as trying to help Peyton, how accurate they are. etc etc etc ... so we are left with speculation. I agree with you Ytown - I struggle to believe that Denver would have nixed the deal because of the different between a 5th/4th round pick for a perennial pro-bowler who has such a solid history of non-injury on a cap friendly contract. Even if JT declines - in 3 years he should still be a top tier LT. What we are left is a situation where people with an agenda or an axe to grind spin it the way their emotions lead them.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
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Ummm Mac I called it nothing but Rumors cause guess what??? IT WAS NOTHING BUT RUMORS.
Endorsing? Again you have a serious reading problem that reads a sentence and then you go put your title to it. I stated that it actually doesn't look bad on Paper. I then went on to say WHY I DID NOT ENDORSE IT...ooops just a slight error on your part...smh just stop...not ahead but not dug into a silly hole yet.
From the beginning I said the Browns tried to trade Joe Thomas. What the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension?
I believe you have a problem admitting what our idiot management tried to do...and get this, do you know when the players found out about Farmer trying to trade JT?
...they found out right before the game against the Cardinals last week.
It's one thing to be a homer...it's another thing to be in denial about the reality of the Browns management...they suck.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Let's not start that crap again. I despised it last time and I'll despise it again. There is no need for such monikers.
How about if I refer to Haslam, Scheiner and Farmer as "the 3 idiots"...that sounds better to me.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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If that is true, and the Broncos dumped the deal for Thomas because they wanted a 4th, and could only get a 5th round pick in the deal ...... Well, I just refuse to believe that they are that stupid. I mean, really ...... then refused to trade for a Hall of Fame LT, with 3 VERY team friendly years left on his deal, because the Browns wouldn't move off of a 5th round pick in favor of the 4th the Broncos wanted? I simply do not believe that Elway is that dumb. And that's the issue - no-one knows what happened and what didn't .... And none of us know if the stories in the media are put out there becuse Denver FO wants to be perceived as trying to help Peyton, how accurate they are. etc etc etc ... so we are left with speculation. I agree with you Ytown - I struggle to believe that Denver would have nixed the deal because of the different between a 5th/4th round pick for a perennial pro-bowler who has such a solid history of non-injury on a cap friendly contract. Even if JT declines - in 3 years he should still be a top tier LT. What we are left is a situation where people with an agenda or an axe to grind spin it the way their emotions lead them. In addition, a holdup on converting Thomas' remaining salary for 2016 and '17 into guarantees also prevented the trade from getting done, a source involved with the process told Rapoport. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...e-falls-through
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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What we are left is a situation where people with an agenda or an axe to grind spin it the way their emotions lead them.
Do you have to shower every time you make that comment?
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Given the situation in Denver and this maybe being Manning last best chance, I seriously doubt this story. No way that Elway passes on anything to get Thomas.
I'm questioning how serious any talks were at this point.
I know that Thomas isn't a spring chicken anymore, but if you are in the position the Broncos are in, I think I'd give up 2 firsts and more to get JT.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I have one word for you MAC...well I had several one words for you but unfortunately I would get tossed using them.
My word for you is "THICK"... I am done with this silly back and forth. Did you by any chance listen to the Farmer Presser 11/3...yeah I know all lies and dodging and ducks....but you wish to believe Grossi instead not the guy dealing with the trade deadline.
RUMOR We were shopping JOE T and others around. FACT - we never shopped...teams called and we listened. ULTIMATE FACT...there were no trades!!! Lets ignore that and call your RUMORS true when nothing happened.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Is everyone in here still arguing about the trade that didn't happen?
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Is everyone in here still arguing about the trade that didn't happen? LOL Appears so.... Cracks me up
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Is everyone in here still arguing about the trade that didn't happen? I am not as concerned about the trade that didn't happen (thank God it didn't), as I am about the people running the team I love. It is patently obvious that we shouldn't trade Joe Thomas. Everyone on here thought it was dumb. Most media observers thought it was dumb. I am sure there are people with the team who thought it was dumb. So why did people who run our team think it was even a little bit of a good idea? That is concerning. We are rooting for a team that has continuously made the wrong decision. Why bury our heads in sand and pretend everything is good when it clearly is not?
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FACT...Joe Thomas and the entire team found out that Farmer was trying to trade JT, in the locker room, before the Cardinals game last Sunday.
Wasn't that nice of Farmer?
Watching the Pettine presser, it was obvious that he was not happy about the way Haslam, Scheiner and especially Farmer...handled their business.
I think Pet said it was like "throwing a hand grenade" in the locker room before the game.
Just more evidence of how helpful Browns management can be...always there to help their head coach.
I don't think Haslam knows enough about football to even realize, FARMER SUCKS.
Nice way for JT to find out how much our management appreciates the effort he has given this franchise for past 8 seasons.
The only problem the Browns have...worst management group in the NFL.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Mac...I heard the phrase used by Pettine - throwing a Hand grenade in the locker room.
But I didn't know about any announcement pre game.
Can you provide me the link to that story? or if on here already cut and past of the Link. Cause if that is what you are talking about. I'd like to know the FACTS on that before opining on what I think.
Thanks. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I think Pet said it was like "throwing a hand grenade" in the locker room before the game. It affected the team so much that they were up thirteen points at halftime.
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I think Pet said it was like "throwing a hand grenade" in the locker room before the game. It affected the team so much that they were up thirteen points at halftime. Or maybe word spread at halftime? I first heard about it during the game from the announcers. Was it public well before the game started? Regardless of that hypothetical, as you said, it's simply a dumb idea to entertain. What's the point? Send a message to Thomas that he isn't Joesus? I still think Farmer and whoever backed the Manziel pick was not amused about the Ravens postgame comment by Joe Thomas. If indeed Haslam was behind that pick (which I fully believe, homeless guy or not), that was a "three stooges" moment for him, getting ridiculed like that by JT. Maybe it was all about the message, but it wouldn't surprise me if they trade him in the offseason.
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
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I think Pet said it was like "throwing a hand grenade" in the locker room before the game. It affected the team so much that they were up thirteen points at halftime. Or maybe word spread at halftime? I first heard about it during the game from the announcers. Was it public well before the game started? All of the pregame shows had it.
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eo..it's in here somewhere...I read it in another story I'm looking for too.
Say it ain’t so, Joe (and Alex): Browns offensive linemen on trading block?
Filed on November 2, 2015 by Brian Dulik
CLEVELAND — Left tackle Joe Thomas is the longest-tenured member of the Browns, playing all 8,443 offensive snaps since being a first-round pick in 2007.
That streak could end before the Tuesday trade deadline, according to NFL Network, which reported that Cleveland has “had discussions about potentially trading” Thomas and center Alex Mack.
The eight-time Pro Bowl selection — and ninth-year pro — made it clear that he hopes the rumors are unfounded.
“It’s out of my control, but I want to be here and I want to finish my career here,” Thomas said Sunday following the Arizona Cardinals’ 34-20 win over the Browns. “I’m not a quitter. I’m not a guy that gives up on my goals, and I’ve said from day one that my goal is to be part of the turnaround here. That hasn’t changed.”
NFL Network, which is owned and operated by the league, often announces “news” that is directly fed to its staff by front office personnel. In this case, however, its reporter was a respected journalist in Ian Rapoport.
“For Thomas, he has no guaranteed money at the end of this year, and of course we know that teams are hurting badly at his position,” Rapoport said. “For Mack, he faces the possibility of opting out this offseason of his long-term contract.”
Thomas admitted that Cleveland’s perennial loser status is disheartening, as is its current record, so he understands why his name is being floated. It also surfaced several seasons ago and didn’t faze him.
“The reality of it is we’re a 2-6 team and the trade deadline is coming up,” the 30-year-old Wisconsin native said. “If you don’t have a winning record, I imagine it happens all the time where teams will call up your team and find out if you’re available in a trade.
“It’s not fun to be on a team that’s losing. Certainly, at times, it’s frustrating when you don’t win because you put so much into it. But that’s when you have to fight harder, when you’re not winning games.”
Mack, who was the Browns’ first-round selection in 2009, has a limited no-trade clause in his contract. He actually signed the pact with Jacksonville on April 11, 2014 — as a restricted free agent — before Cleveland exercised its right to match the terms.
The former Pro Bowl honoree can become an unrestricted free agent next spring, but declined to discuss that possibility in the locker room.
“I heard about the rumor before the game and I don’t know what to say,” Mack said. “I’m not going to speak out of turn when I’m not sure. That’s something for my agent to answer.”
The six-year veteran was willing to commit to spending the rest of the season with the Browns, saying, “Absolutely, I want to help this team win.”
Browns linebacker Paul Kruger also said he wants to stay with the franchise after having his name thrown into the mix later in NFL Network’s pregame show.
But unlike Thomas and Mack, the seventh-year pro said he wouldn’t be shocked if general manager Ray Farmer did pull the trigger on dealing him. Kruger’s role has diminished greatly in his third season in Cleveland.
“Your value can only be so high, based on how much you’re on the field,” he said. “I don’t think our record has anything to do with it, but it’s more the way I’ve been used. I hope this is my home, but I haven’t been surprised because there has been a lot of talk about different things like this.”
The rumors spread so quickly through FirstEnergy Stadium that Browns coach Mike Pettine said he was aware of them before the opening kickoff. Given his uncertain status for next season, he was not pleased with the distraction.
“We were focused 100 percent on this game this morning, and now we are moving on,” Pettine said sternly. “This fictitious trading block, I am not even going to go there. It seems to happen every year. I am aware of what is out there, but I have no comment.”
link
Last edited by mac; 11/05/15 03:16 PM.
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EO...and this..
Pettine said when the trade rumors broke Sunday morning before the Cardinals game, "it was the equivalent to throwing a grenade in the locker room.''
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FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
EO...and here is this...
Latest Browns debacle shows chaos continues to reign
November 2, 2015
Another Sunday, another beat down.
Another opportunity to witness the whole sorry, sad, demoralizing, dysfunctional mess and to state the obvious: there is no light at the end of the tunnel, there’s just another tunnel.
You want a silver lining? Here you go:
Unlike last week’s beatdown, on Sunday the Browns had 11 players on the field for all the touchdowns scored by their opponent.
There were four of them, and there should have been four more. Arizona quarterback Carson Palmer overthrew two receivers who were behind the Browns’ defense, Palmer had a touchdown pass called back by a penalty and Cardinals receiver Larry Fitzgerald fumbled at the Browns’ 8-yard line.
So instead of 34-20, Arizona should have beaten the Browns by something like 62-20.
There’s your silver lining. Enjoy.
Everything else in Haslamland was its usual chaotic self Sunday, as the Browns staggered into the start of a three-game typhoon of trouble that will lead into the bye-bye week, which their bye week threatens to become.
It’s the undefeated Bengals in Cincinnati on Thursday, followed by the Steelers, in Pittsburgh, from which the Browns are expected to emerge 2-7 and 2-8 respectively as they once again officially withdraw from relevancy in another NFL season.
In Sunday’s debacle the Browns actually led 20-10, then got outscored 24-0 in the second half.
“It’s hard to explain all that went wrong in the second half,” coach Mike Pettine said.
Especially the part where quarterback Josh McCown, who appeared battered, beaten and bewildered, after a series of slamdance sacks by the Arizona pass rush, was allowed to stay in the game.
At one point McCown staggered off the field and collapsed on his knees on the sideline, holding his ribs and gasping for breath.
“The wind kind of got knocked out of me,” said McCown, who, incredibly, was back out on the field for the next offensive possession. Pettine’s defense of letting an obviously hurting McCown stay in the game was not one of his finer moments.
Pettine basically said if players feel they have to come out of the game they should fall down on the field.
“He didn’t,” said Pettine of McCown.
“I want to be out there fighting with my guys,” said McCown.
Pettine denied that sticking with McCown had anything to do with a lack of trust in backup Johnny Manziel, but that’s exactly how it looked. Manziel took some practice snaps and had his helmet on as the Cardinals continued to tee off on McCown.
At one point Manziel started out onto the field, but was waved off by McCown.
It was a surreal sequence in another for-real failure by a team that too often seems at odds with itself. Prior to the game, national reports surfaced that the Browns had begun talks with other teams about possible trades involving Joe Thomas and Alex Mack.
Clearly somebody in the Browns’ organization wanted that information out there, which equally clearly created a needless locker room distraction in the hours leading up to the game.
Then there’s Dwayne Bowe, the $9 million floor lamp. Bowe was finally allowed to dress for a game after being inactive for five games, the last three even though he was healthy. Pettine obviously has no confidence in Bowe, the latest mistake on the ever-lengthening whiff list of general manager Ray Farmer, who a couple hours prior to the game could be seen on the field, engaged in a conversation with Manziel and owner Jimmy Haslam.
Oh, if hash marks could talk.
The Farmer-Pettine dynamic is an ongoing source of speculation, with Manziel and Bowe two obvious battlegrounds. Pettine has given no indication he has any interest in giving either one much playing time. Farmer, who has given no indication he has mastered the art of roster construction, obviously is in Manziel’s and Bowe’s corner.
Who’s right and who’s wrong doesn’t really matter as much as the tug-of-war itself between the inexperienced head coach and inexperienced general manager. There’s nothing wrong with healthy disagreements between the two, but there is everything wrong with it getting in the way of team building.
Likewise, when a season starts to circle the drain, as this latest Browns’ season appears to be doing, infrastructure harmony, or the lack of it, is the elephant in the room.
At the bye week the Browns will likely be 2-8, and 2-13 going back to the end of last year. All of that has come on Farmer’s and Pettine’s watch.
If you choose to split hairs in assigning blame, you could say that Pettine can only coach the players Farmer provides him. Certainly the two men occupy the hottest of the hot seats in Berea, where Haslam may already be pondering that most dreaded of all antidotes:
Rearrange the furniture, or blow it up?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
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EO...and here is this...
November 2, 2015
mac: Is this an article? No link...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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