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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/11/what_mike_pettines_reasons_wer.html

Browns quarterback Josh McCown waved off an eager Johnny Manziel in the third quarter of Sunday's 34-20 loss to the Cardinals and was not about to let a little thing like an excruciating shot to the ribs knock him out of the game.

And he probably won't let it keep him from Thursday night's game in Cincinnati for the 7-0 Bengals.

"We'll see,'' said McCown, who battled back from a shoulder injury suffered in St. Louis to start this game. "I can't predict the future, but unless anything changes, in my mind as long as I can wake up the next few days and do everything I feel like I need to do to feel effective, than I will be ready."

Another game, another post-game trip to the X-ray room for McCown, who wouldn't say whether or not his ribs were broken.

What's more, he was confident that the rib injury did not affect his second-half performance against Cardinals. After throwing three first-half touchdowns to take a 20-7 lead with 4:56 left in the half, McCown was shut out in the second half.

Meanwhile, Cardinals quarterback Carson Palmer overcame four turnovers by his team and threw three of his four touchdowns passes in the second half for the come-from-behind victory.

"Didn't affect me – just discomfort,'' said McCown. "Obviously, you desire not to have that if you could choose, but I made the throws I wanted to make so I didn't feel like it affected me."

When pressed, McCown insisted that he didn't hurt the team by staying in the game after he was shaken, rattled and rolled.

"No, I wouldn't go out there if I couldn't do what I felt capable of doing,'' he said.
Was the Browns new Ironman ever close to taking himself out of the game?

"Nope."

Likewise, coach Mike Pettine defended his decision to keep McCown in the game after he took a hard shot to the ribs by linebacker Kevin Minter in the third quarter and then back-to-back crushing blows by former Brown Frostee Rucker on his next two plays.

"We talked about it,'' said Pettine. "We were going to take him out, and he [said he] could continue. We said if he couldn't go, to go ahead and go down, and he stayed in there."

He stressed, "to me, we put it on our players if they're injured and need to come out of the game that they are to go down on the field. He clearly wasn't 100 percent, but I think he bounced back and ended up throwing a completion or two. We ended up having to punt on that drive. I think we dropped a ball on third-and-long that would have kept the drive going."

Pettine said his decision to leave McCown in the game had nothing to do with a lack of faith in Johnny Manziel, who came in with 2:16 remaining in garbage time after the Cardinals tacked on their final field goal to produce the final margin.

"No, none,'' said Pettine.

After a sensational first half by McCown, it all went south in the third quarter from hell. He threw two touchdown passes to Brian Hartline and one to Gary Barnidge -- 20 straight points -- to put the Browns up 20-7 with 4:56 left in the half. Along the way, he completed 11 of 17 attempts for 122 yards, including a nifty 52-yard catch and run by Duke Johnson, against the Cardinals No. 4 defense for a 125.5 first-half rating.

But on the second play of the third quarter, Minter drilled McCown on an incomplete third-down pass to Barnidge, and layed on the quarterback after the hit. McCown went to the bench and was immediately checked by the team doctors.

He said he did not receiver a neurological exam, and that he hurt his ribs.

While the doctors checked him out, Manziel warmed up on the sidelines and then got on the phone with he offensive coaches upstairs in the booth. Before long, the docs left, McCown alone and Manziel joined him on the bench, where they began looking at plays on the iPad.

McCown trotted back out on the next drive, only to be slammed to the turf again by Rucker on an incompletion to Isaiah Crowell. He shook off the hit, stood back and was promptly sacked hard for an 8-yard loss by Rucker, and appeared to have Rucker's helmet jammed into his ribs.

The sack was wiped out by a penalty, but unfortunately for McCown, the pain wasn't erased.

He held his the right side of his body and doubled over in pain. Then, he crouched on his knees and remained like that for a few moments.

"Obviously, just when you get hit and it doesn't feel good, you try to just find a comfortable spot and so I think more than anything, that's what I was trying to do,' said McCown. "The wind kind of got out of me a little bit so just trying to get my bearings and get better."

While McCown struggled to breathe, Manziel popped in his helmet and took a couple of steps onto the field. But the veteran popped up by then and waved his protege back to the sidelines. Manziel snapped his chinstrap back off and resigned himself to the fact that McCown has nine lives.

"You try to let him know as soon as you can, what's going on,'' said McCown. "Like I said, I just want to be out there fighting with my guys. I just want to play, I want to be out there with my guys. I didn't feel like I was hurting enough that it was going to keep me from doing my job so I'm going to stay out there."

Unfortunately for McCown, he got little help from his teammates after the three hard hits. Hartline, who made two great TD grabs in the first half, dropped four second-half passes, including two on third down to kills drives.

Running back Robert Turbin fumbled the ball away with 7:33 left in the game and the Browns trailing 31-20.

McCown was also strip-sacked by Dwight Freeney in the third quarter and picked off on the first play of the fourth.

"If I could (explain the second half meltdown), it probably wouldn't have happened,'' said McCown. "I have to look at the tape and check it out and see. We flip-flop ourselves sometimes. We get started slow, then come on late, then we start fast today and don't finish. Good football teams, they finish. In order for us to become what we want to become, we have to finish better."

McCown, who was sacked only once, went 7-of-15 for 89 yards after the Minter hit with the one pick. But it would've been 11-for-15 for considerably more yards had Hartline not dropped the four balls. He also led the team with 18 yards rushing and had no running game to take the pressure off.

"I don't think any of us executed the way we needed to,'' said McCown. "That is what it was. We didn't come out and execute the way we did in the first half."

Despite the hits, McCown (18-of-34, 211 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, 89.2 rating) completed passes of 17 yards to Barnidge and Travis Benjamin before Turbin's fumble -- and took umbrage to suggestions he should've taken himself out.

"Did you guys not watch the end of the game?'' he said. "The throw to Gary in the fourth quarter, threw one on the sideline to Travis, I felt like I could do everything I needed to do."

McCown's teammates marveled at his toughness.

"There was one time today where I was nervous for him,'' said Joel Bitonio. "He's a tough s.o.b., man. Really tough, and we don't protect him enough. When you get blasted by a 300-pound guy or 250-pound guy going full speed, I don't know how he gets up sometimes honestly. It's gut-wrenching.''

Added Joe Thomas: "He's super tough. It's really impressive for a guy that's mid-30s. I know I'm on the other side of 30 now and when I get hit it hurts. For a smaller guy than myself to get hit by bigger guys, that's got to hurt. But he's super tough. There's a perseverance with Josh that's really impressive.''
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McCown is tough. Cool.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
McCown is tough. Cool.


haha yes, so was Couch, Holcomb, Dilfer, McCoy, Delhomme, Garcia, etc ...

all losers too


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its the dumbest rhetoric coming out of this.. its like a boxer that can take a punch but still has a 0-337373 record...big deal. I rather him win and be a pansy. Or better yet, be smarter about putting himself in situations that will never end well.. ever see peyton manning just spin the opposite way of his protection..no. In fact, he just goes down quick to fight another day. When you're a loser and you have been your whole career, and you know this is absolutely your last chance to start, you do stupid things.


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I've been hearing Pettine doesn't want Manziel playing at all.

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I perhaps was the harshest critic of bringing McCown in. However, I ain't buying this crap that he is the reason that we are losing games.

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Can't help myself ,,,,,, Farmer and Pettine are the reason we are loosing Games !

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I perhaps was the harshest critic of bringing McCown in. However, I ain't buying this crap that he is the reason that we are losing games.


McCown is just a piece of the puzzle why we are losing, it seems to be something different every week. The bottom line for me, is lack of talent at the skills positions, horrible scheme on defense, and a coach that doesn't know how to maximize the personnel he has. McCown is a loser and always has been. He's played well at times this year. More than I think anyone thought he would. In the same token, he's also done what everyone thought he would, make bad decisions at the worst times. But even having said that, he's played well enough in games that we should have won a few more, but some other part of the team failed. I think if we had Horton's Defense, we're probably sitting atleast at .500 right now.


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Fair enough.

Just remember by me praising McCown is an admittance of being wrong in my evaluation of him.

Some of the things I said about him are proving to be true, such as him holding the ball too long and not having very good pocket presence, but he is making a ton of very good throws and he is putting up points w/an offense that lacks impact and/or game-changing players.

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Josh McCown is exceeding even the most optimistic expectations. Kudos to him.

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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Josh McCown is exceeding even the most optimistic expectations. Kudos to him.


That he is, and he is being the McCown we knew. But the biggest thing imo, if you told me prior to the season that McCown through 8 games would have the numbers he had and has only won a single game, I'd probably ask who the interim coach is and why is the defense so bad. Because between manziel and mccown, qb play has been plenty good enough to win. When you have only one side of the ball playing well, mistakes on the other side become magnified.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I perhaps was the harshest critic of bringing McCown in. However, I ain't buying this crap that he is the reason that we are losing games.


Not even close. It is literally the twilight zone. We have good QB play and everyone else is garbage, especially on defense. Amazing how quickly things change.

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Josh McCown is playing well WELL beyond any possible expectations I had. Prior to the season I thought we were a 2-14 team partly BECAUSE of Josh McCown. As the season has played out now I think we're a 2-14 team DESPITE Josh McCown.


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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/02/browns-still-not-talking-about-mccowns-x-rays/

Browns still not talking about McCown’s X-rays

Posted by Zac Jackson on November 2, 2015, 2:04 PM EST
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Browns quarterback Josh McCown got X-rays on his ribs after Sunday’s loss to the Cardinals but would not tell reporters what those X-rays revealed, instead directing them to ask Browns coach Mike Pettine.

Monday, Pettine wouldn’t share those results. But for the second straight Monday he said the Browns will start McCown if McCown is able to play over second-year quarterback Johnny Manziel.

Pettine also said that he expects McCown to start in a short-week situation Thursday night when the Browns play in Cincinnati.

As for the thought that the 2-6 Browns should just play Manziel, Pettine said “we aren’t there yet” but said he understands the thought.

“He’s our backup,” Pettine said of Manziel. “Josh has done a great job for us.”

McCown suffered a concussion on the first series of the season and Manziel played the next seven quarters, getting his first NFL win in Week 2 against the Titans. McCown has started since but Manziel has finished the last two games due to the pounding McCown has taken. It was a shoulder injury last week and this week’s it’s the undisclosed rib issue that’s left McCown’s status as uncertain.

Pettine said Joe Haden and Donte Whitner are in the league’s concussion protocol after suffering concussions Sunday vs. Arizona and that Andrew Hawkins remains in concussion protocol after suffering a concussion Oct. 25 at St. Louis.

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Originally Posted By: BpG
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I perhaps was the harshest critic of bringing McCown in. However, I ain't buying this crap that he is the reason that we are losing games.


Not even close. It is literally the twilight zone. We have good QB play and everyone else is garbage, especially on defense. Amazing how quickly things change.


Agree. People have short memories. Remember not so long ago it was said that if we just had competent, game managing style QB play we could win? Yeah......about that. Lol. McCown has smashed everybody's pre season expectations. I thought he'd be absolute dog poo. Still want to see JM though. We can't go into off season with him being an unknown commodity, and we also can't go into the offseason with Farmer firing the bullets. wink


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I read this article this morning and thought to myself! Who is calling the shots here? Who is in charge here? Who is in charge of saying who plays and who don't? From this article it displays the lack of control that Pett has with this ball team! (in my opinion)It almost seems as if McCown is in control of the QB play. After he took that shot to the ribs Pett should have removed him and put in Manziel (again my opinion) I believe a healthy Manziel is better than a hurt McCown!




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The funny thing is, this thread isn't about playing Manziel over McCown. It's about playing a very injured McCown.

At some point, if you plan on McCown being your QB, you've got to sit him down and give him a chance to heal. Playing him after the rtib injury was stupid. Putting him in this week if he isn't healed would be stupid.


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Originally Posted By: cfrs15
McCown is tough. Cool.


I agree, McCown is way tougher and has played WAY better overall than I ever expected.

I just wonder if this is less about McCown being the man and more an indictment of Manziel's inability to run the O. I just don't know.


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OK first let say mccown has played way better than I expected. But saying that in crunch time when he needs to make a play he reverts pack to the Josh we know. I'm sorry guys he is also part of the problem. You can put up all the stats you can but I you can't make a play durning crunch time when the team, fans,players and coach's are depending on you, then you are a part of the problem.

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Quote:
“He’s our backup,” Pettine said of Manziel. “Josh has done a great job for us.”


1-1 for the backup 1-6 for the starter. That's not a great job for an NFL starting QB by any stretch. But whatever.


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Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
McCown is tough. Cool.


I agree, McCown is way tougher and has played WAY better overall than I ever expected.

I just wonder if this is less about McCown being the man and more an indictment of Manziel's inability to run the O. I just don't know.


Least you forget JM has ran the offense to 50% of the wins this year.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I perhaps was the harshest critic of bringing McCown in. However, I ain't buying this crap that he is the reason that we are losing games.


If you would have said to me, "I'll bet you $500 that through 8 games, McCown will miss almost 2 games, but still have 11 TD passes and only 4 INT", I probably would have asked you to increase the bet to a few thousand.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Fair enough.

Just remember by me praising McCown is an admittance of being wrong in my evaluation of him.

Some of the things I said about him are proving to be true, such as him holding the ball too long and not having very good pocket presence, but he is making a ton of very good throws and he is putting up points w/an offense that lacks impact and/or game-changing players.


If you remember I was not real happy that we signed him either. However he has been punched in the mouth 10m times over and he always gets up and says "is that all you got" cool If we as Browns fans can not respect and support that kind of attitude we need to go root for another team flamingmad


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Buffalo?


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LOL anybody. I support anybody who has the balls to stand up and support Cleveland no matter what smile


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IMO, he should have come to the sidelines for a regrouping. I appreciate his gusto, but a break could have helped him out.

To me it is not about Johnny playing, It is about saving your starter, who is playing good, from being out with injury for a significant time. Josh needed to take a breather, and get himself right. A couple series would have done him good.

In a way, I think it was a selfish move. He was clearly hesitant to throw long after the hits, and I don't blame him. Pettine used his completing a couple passes as proof he shouldn't have come out. Thing is, that's all he could do the second half, is complete a couple passes. Hartline killed him also.


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It's just my opinion, but you have been making some really strong posts recently. Maybe you always have....LOL....and I just now finally realizing it... smile

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Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
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“He’s our backup,” Pettine said of Manziel. “Josh has done a great job for us.”


1-1 for the backup 1-6 for the starter. That's not a great job for an NFL starting QB by any stretch. But whatever.


That argument might make sense if the backup would have won games that the starter started and we lost. If you believe that, more power to you. I certainly don't. Can't think of one game McCown started that I think we would have won w JFF at QB.

And this is someone who thinks JFF needs to play so we can make a more informed choice on what to do with the position.

A last note - we have not played 9 games.


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Originally Posted By: E.Ryze19
IMO, he should have come to the sidelines for a regrouping. I appreciate his gusto, but a break could have helped him out.

To me it is not about Johnny playing, It is about saving your starter, who is playing good, from being out with injury for a significant time. Josh needed to take a breather, and get himself right. A couple series would have done him good.

In a way, I think it was a selfish move. He was clearly hesitant to throw long after the hits, and I don't blame him. Pettine used his completing a couple passes as proof he shouldn't have come out. Thing is, that's all he could do the second half, is complete a couple passes. Hartline killed him also.


I think what people aren't giving Josh enough credit for is being a competitor. Maybe he doesn't quite have the talent he thinks he does, but I think he really does take on the full mantle of leadership. He's trying to lead by example. His scramble at the beginning of the season was an attempt to set the tone. I think this past week he saw the game slipping away and stayed in to do his job as a leader and try to turn it around.

Barnidge has been our biggest weapon this season. Benji had a couple good games early on, but has been non-existent. Duke has had some good outings, but we still don't have a single offensive player that has put the game on their shoulders week after week.

One thing I didn't expect to see from Josh was his reaction to Turbin's second fumble. He was pissed! I never thought I'd see him slam his helmet in anger like that.


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Quote:
One thing I didn't expect to see from Josh was his reaction to Turbin's second fumble. He was pissed! I never thought I'd see him slam his helmet in anger like that.


I missed that, because as soon as the signaled Arizona had the ball I slammed my laptop shut and went and had a cigarette.. first game I hadn't finished watching in a while..


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j/c...McCown is who I thought he was.
I've course I've been repeatedly told how wrong I'm always am. McCown hasn't lost the games. He just hasn't Won them. 1-6 for the season. Keep in mind 4 out of the 6 losses were winnable games.

Just like the 2nd half...yeah he could have come out but he toughed it out instead. He didn't play bad although he did throw and INT and fumbled the ball. Oh and coincidently we put up a goose egg that 2nd half. To lose to the Cards. But its not McCowns fault.

I agree with all the posters who said he didn't play bad...but the fact is he just didn't play good enough to win.

Yes, I know I know I'm always wrong...we forget a simple thing about Quarterbacks and in the heat/turmoil/blood of the game. They get the team to raise their game they win the close games. At least some of the time.

McCown is playing as good as I thought he would. I did however state if we had to rely on him to carry the team and win games we would be in trouble - that we would have to rely and go on as far as the Defense would take us.

Tough, yes. Guts, yes. But why did we have 0 points after that crucial point of injury. Why do we continue to lose these close fought games? Does he make the Browns better? Stat wise he is playing great... I don't know if Manziel is the answer. All I do know is this is a tough tough task we are putting him up against. I'd like to see what he is made of...the team that totally embarrassed him and brought him to his LOW POINT of last year. Little preparation for the game plan. Tough task.

McCown? He is who I thought he was. But what I don't like is that we were prepared to put in Manziel early on and McCown talked them out of it. Just like a pitcher when the Manager comes out to the mound and take out the starter...sometimes they listen and keep them in...usually not a good move and good results.

I love Tough especially in football. He didn't play bad...just something missing obviously and we didn't win we didn't score all we did was lose.

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Quote:
McCown hasn't lost the games.


yea those 10 turnovers in 6 games and 1 drive had nothing to do with losing...pfft

yea those 22 drive killing sacks in 6 games and 1 drive had nothing to do with us losing.....pffft

what a absurd statement.


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Did you even read my post?

But in your quest - I don't know maybe you get Brownie points around here if you can ridicule me - to put me down you actually supported my position. Thanks wink


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Josh McCown should not be credited with losses, just like Brian Hoyer should not be credited with wins. McCown has made some seriously backbreaking decisions (the two that come to mind are the Broncos INT late and the Raiders INT late), but we could have still won those games if a couple other things go right here and there.

For example, imagine in the Broncos game, we had one extra point at the end of regulation (I don't know where we would have gotten this mysterious extra point, maybe on a PAT). Against the Raiders, what if Travis Benjamin catches the punt.

I know it is the nature of the sport. Too much emphasis is placed on the quarterback because the ball touches his hands every offensive possession. The team wins and loses, not the QB.

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Originally Posted By: eotab
Did you even read my post?

But in your quest - I don't know maybe you get Brownie points around here if you can ridicule me - to put me down you actually supported my position. Thanks wink


yea i read it. did you? your trying to say that those turnovers and sacks did not have a bearing on losing the games.

you said "Keep in mind 4 out of the 6 losses were winnable games." and i am saying 4 of 6 loss we lost by at least 7 points and 3 of those were by at least 14 points. dont get much worse than that.

im saying every thing i said about mccown is being proven with his play.

i said he makes bad decisions









i said he hangs on to the ball to long and is going to make our o-line look like crap. 22 sacks in 6 games and one drive says i was right.

i said it was going to be like playing in the redzone the whole game. how any times you see a pass go through the air more than ten yards past the los let alone 20?

people want to know why we cant run the ball? well thats one of the reasons and guess what? not being able to run the ball is another reason we are not winning.

but he does make a fine tackling dummy.

Last edited by pblack18707; 11/05/15 03:49 PM.

being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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the gif of him flying so high out of the screen had me rolling yo


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Originally Posted By: Swish
the gif of him flying so high out of the screen had me rolling yo


i know. once a day i look at it and just laugh and laugh. used to with the turkey jones one too.....


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That is incredible pblack. Just hilarious.

DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 20 Arizona 34 How Josh McCown waved off Johnny Manziel

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