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I've come to the conclusion that we are tanking. Pet is overwhelmed at this point. This isn't tanking this is stanking up the joint lol.
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I've come to the conclusion that we are tanking. Pet is overwhelmed at this point. This isn't tanking this is stanking up the joint lol. If he goes back to McCown I will believe this 100%.
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It's been obvious that Pettine is in over his head since about week 4. That's why I've been saying that he and Farmer need someone in the organization to help them. They don't know what they don't know.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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And this weeks Cleveland Brown's Greg Little award recipient goes to...
drum role please...
Taylor Gabriel
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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When guys like Gabriel drop balls, to me it speaks to the environment. Gabriel has proven to have really good hands. But I think when you lose consistently, a certain hopelessness starts to creep into your psyche. This manifests itself in a lack of focus. Lack of focus leads to mistakes.
People are saying this morning to cut Gabriel and he can't catch. That's simply not true. There is no focus or desire on this team. That comes from constant losing and lack of belief in your leaders.
The culture and environment is so bad in Berea. We need really strong leadership to overcome this.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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And this weeks Cleveland Brown's Greg Little award recipient goes to...
drum role please...
Taylor Gabriel For a second there, I thought one of the passes to him could have gotten lodged in his facemask. Better chance of that happening than Taylor actually catching something.
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Catch the ball #18.
Our defence can't stop the pass and barely gets a pass rush. We dont blitz enough.
I thought Johnny was good even if the numbers don't reflect that.
The bengals successful challenge on JM's first down run was a downer.
Lee had a couple bad punts.
Our d sucks, Crowell ran well. I like Duke. 2-7 dammit Honestly, the Browns need to upgrade the defensive talent to where they can consistently get pressure with just 4, but that's my opinion. That takes committing to a 4 man front and drafting players accordingly. You don't take 360 pound slow as hell fat guys at 12. If Shelton gets one sack a season we'll be lucky. TBH, I actually think Shelton would be more productive in a 4-3 in all honesty. He might not get a ton of sacks, but he'd draw a hell of a lot of attention away from the DE's. At least 80% of the time we're running a 4 man front right now. I don't think these guys know what kind of D they want to run. If we were going to run a 4 man front, which we do a LOT this year, why let Sheard go in FA? He was out of place at linebacker, but as a DE he was good. No, not great, but good. He could set the edge and he could get some pressure on a QB. He's good enough to start for Belichick so..... You have to have a vision of exactly what kind of D you want to run then get the players for it. These guys seem to have no idea what D to run. That's not good. I don't care if they run a Tampa 2, one or two gap 3-4, or a Buddy Ryan 4-6. You can be successful running a lot of different schemes. Pick one and go with it. I used to be a 3-4 guy. Loved our old 3-4 D back in the days of Clay Matthews and Chip Banks. However, I'm hoping our next coach is a 4-3 guy. Easier to play in, easier to draft for. If we NEVER take another DE as a project linebacker it will be too soon. No more tweener projects. Peace
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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let me restate when we are in a 4 man front its not good to have Armonty Bryant trying to cover a receiver with 4.4 speed lol Sorry but some of the stuff we do, is so idiotic, it is mind blowing.
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It sucks because I'm starting to see things like Spirit.
Crow and duke were playing very well, so of course our coaches can't stand that. 3 sacks? Something has to get benched now.
Manziel making plays out of the pocket? Complain about it during halftime, then blame all the problems on the QB at the end of the game.
I seriously believe in my heart guys. After we completely abandoned the run in the second half.... We are tanking.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I've come to the conclusion that we are tanking. If by tanking, you mean losing, then yes, we are tanking. But the players and coaches most definitely want to win the games.
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For me, it was a tale of two halves. The first half the Browns basically played the Bengals to a stalemate. And this on their home field. I expected the Brown’s would come out of the locker room to start the second half with a fire in their eyes knowing they were in this game and actually had a chance to knock off an undefeated division rival.
Alas, it was not to be. As soon as the Bengals scored in the second half it was like the entire team gave up and just went through the motions. Almost like they expected to loose. I know many are blaming this on a lack of talent and I agree the Brown’s have made an egregious number of bonehead personnel moves, but this is an NFL roster. I can’t believe they are playing as badly as they are just because of a lack of talent. A lot of this has to go on the coaching staff. They should have been fired up for the second half, but if you looked at the coach on the sideline it was as if he had no interest in winning or losing. The players feed off the coaches and if the coaches appear to have no motivation, it’s hard to motivate the players. So if nothing else, I came away from this game throughly convinced Pettine, et.al. need to go. Bring in a motivator, a guy who wants to win. I don’t care if he knows Xs and Os, that’s what assistants are for. This team has to want to win, not just play to be successful. I know, easier said than done.
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It sucks because I'm starting to see things like Spirit.
Crow and duke were playing very well, so of course our coaches can't stand that. 3 sacks? Something has to get benched now.
Manziel making plays out of the pocket? Complain about it during halftime, then blame all the problems on the QB at the end of the game.
I seriously believe in my heart guys. After we completely abandoned the run in the second half.... We are tanking. I am thinking you may be right...Pet said at halftime that he wanted better production from JM...I just watched the game again and the O looked good...a few dropped passes, a bad false start, and maybe 2 throws he made slightly off target...But look at his last drive.. Also, we had the whopping 4 drives in the first half...4! 50% of them ended up in points... Here are the drives from the first half
Cleveland Browns at 15:00
2-M.Nugent kicks 65 yards from CIN 35 to end zone, Touchback.
1-10-CLE 20
(15:00) 34-I.Crowell right guard to CLE 23 for 3 yards (96-C.Dunlap).
2-7-CLE 23
(14:24) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass incomplete short right to 34-I.Crowell.
3-7-CLE 23
(14:16) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass short middle to 11-T.Benjamin to CLE 32 for 9 yards (27-D.Kirkpatrick).
1-10-CLE 32
(13:35) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass incomplete short middle to 29-D.Johnson Jr..
2-10-CLE 32
(13:30) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell up the middle to CLE 34 for 2 yards (57-V.Rey).
3-8-CLE 34
(12:53) (Shotgun) PENALTY on CLE-73-J.Thomas, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at CLE 34 - No Play.
3-13-CLE 29
(12:37) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass incomplete deep left to 11-T.Benjamin (24-A.Jones).
4-13-CLE 29
(12:29) 8-A.Lee punts 34 yards to CIN 37, Center-47-C.Hughlett, out of bounds.
Cleveland Browns at 07:08
2-M.Nugent kicks 65 yards from CIN 35 to end zone, Touchback.
1-10-CLE 20
(7:08) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass short left to 18-T.Gabriel to CLE 23 for 3 yards (57-V.Rey).
2-7-CLE 23
(6:35) 29-D.Johnson Jr right guard to CLE 28 for 5 yards (94-D.Peko; 55-V.Burfict).
3-2-CLE 28
(6:14) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass short middle to 81-J.Dray to CLE 41 for 13 yards (55-V.Burfict).
1-10-CLE 41
(5:40) 2-J.Manziel pass short right to 82-G.Barnidge to CIN 49 for 10 yards (24-A.Jones).
1-10-CIN 49
(4:58) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left tackle to CIN 36 for 13 yards (43-G.Iloka).
1-10-CIN 36
(4:15) 34-I.Crowell right guard to CIN 34 for 2 yards (57-V.Rey).
2-8-CIN 34
(3:36) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel scrambles left end to CIN 30 for 4 yards (57-V.Rey).
3-4-CIN 30
(2:51) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass short right to 34-I.Crowell to CIN 15 for 15 yards (43-G.Iloka).
1-10-CIN 15
(2:10) 2-J.Manziel pass short right to 80-D.Bowe to CIN 11 for 4 yards (27-D.Kirkpatrick).
2-6-CIN 11
(1:29) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel scrambles right tackle ran ob at CIN 4 for 7 yards (27-D.Kirkpatrick).
1-4-CIN 4
(1:04) 29-D.Johnson Jr up the middle to CIN 9 for -5 yards (98-B.Thompson).
2-9-CIN 9
(:23) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass incomplete short left to 18-T.Gabriel (24-A.Jones).
3-9-CIN 9
(:14) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass incomplete short middle to 82-G.Barnidge.
4-9-CIN 9
(:10) 6-T.Coons 27 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-47-C.Hughlett, Holder-8-A.Lee.
CLE 3 CIN 7 Plays: 14 Possession: 7:02
Second Quarter
Cleveland Browns at 12:52
1-10-CLE 42
(12:52) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 42 for no gain (97-G.Atkins; 95-W.Gilberry).
2-10-CLE 42
(12:13) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass short left to 34-I.Crowell to CLE 46 for 4 yards (94-D.Peko).
3-6-CLE 46
(11:29) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass incomplete short middle to 18-T.Gabriel (29-L.Hall).
4-6-CLE 46
(11:24) 8-A.Lee punts 54 yards to end zone, Center-47-C.Hughlett, Touchback.
Cleveland Browns at 04:34
2-M.Nugent kicks 70 yards from CIN 35 to CLE -5. 21-J.Gilbert to CLE 8 for 13 yards (30-C.Peerman).
1-10-CLE 8
(4:27) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass short left to 11-T.Benjamin to CLE 15 for 7 yards (43-G.Iloka).
2-3-CLE 15
(3:55) (Shotgun) 34-I.Crowell left guard to CLE 20 for 5 yards (43-G.Iloka).
1-10-CLE 20
(3:16) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass incomplete short right to 82-G.Barnidge (57-V.Rey).
2-10-CLE 20
(3:13) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass deep left to 29-D.Johnson Jr ran ob at CLE 46 for 26 yards (27-D.Kirkpatrick).
1-10-CLE 46
(2:38) 34-I.Crowell right tackle to CLE 47 for 1 yard (97-G.Atkins).
Two-Minute Warning
2-9-CLE 47
(2:00) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass deep left to 82-G.Barnidge to CIN 28 for 25 yards (20-R.Nelson). Penalty on CIN-97-G.Atkins, Defensive Offside, declined.
1-10-CIN 28
(1:52) 34-I.Crowell right end to CIN 17 for 11 yards (55-V.Burfict).
1-10-CIN 17
(1:14) 34-I.Crowell right tackle to CIN 12 for 5 yards (90-M.Johnson).
2-5-CIN 12
(:32) (Shotgun) 29-D.Johnson Jr left tackle to CIN 12 for no gain (97-G.Atkins).
Timeout #1 by CLE at 00:27.
3-5-CIN 12
(:27) (Shotgun) 2-J.Manziel pass short right to 29-D.Johnson Jr for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.
6-T.Coons extra point is GOOD, Center-47-C.Hughlett, Holder-8-A.Lee.
CLE 10 CIN 14 Plays: 10 Possession: 4:15
Who are we tanking for? Johnny had positive plays due to pocket collapsing...I'm thinking Josh would have had a terrible game with many sacks tonight and I like Josh...
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." [Mark Twain]
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watchin on replay....
2 bad drops. on 3rd down Benjamin gets hit in face with ball..drop...sorta
in the endzone on the next possession Gabriel drops the ball.
I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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Who are we tanking for? Johnny had positive plays due to pocket collapsing...I'm thinking Josh would have had a terrible game with many sacks tonight and I like Josh...
Johnny ran out of perfectly clean pockets more than a few times. Don't transfer those to sacks for Josh.
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its a number game..some pressure would of gotten to josh...some plays josh would of made better decisions.
I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
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Catch the ball #18.
Our defence can't stop the pass and barely gets a pass rush. We dont blitz enough.
I thought Johnny was good even if the numbers don't reflect that.
The bengals successful challenge on JM's first down run was a downer.
Lee had a couple bad punts.
Our d sucks, Crowell ran well. I like Duke. 2-7 dammit Honestly, the Browns need to upgrade the defensive talent to where they can consistently get pressure with just 4, but that's my opinion. That takes committing to a 4 man front and drafting players accordingly. You don't take 360 pound slow as hell fat guys at 12. If Shelton gets one sack a season we'll be lucky. TBH, I actually think Shelton would be more productive in a 4-3 in all honesty. He might not get a ton of sacks, but he'd draw a hell of a lot of attention away from the DE's. At least 80% of the time we're running a 4 man front right now. I don't think these guys know what kind of D they want to run. If we were going to run a 4 man front, which we do a LOT this year, why let Sheard go in FA? He was out of place at linebacker, but as a DE he was good. No, not great, but good. He could set the edge and he could get some pressure on a QB. He's good enough to start for Belichick so..... You have to have a vision of exactly what kind of D you want to run then get the players for it. These guys seem to have no idea what D to run. That's not good. I don't care if they run a Tampa 2, one or two gap 3-4, or a Buddy Ryan 4-6. You can be successful running a lot of different schemes. Pick one and go with it. I used to be a 3-4 guy. Loved our old 3-4 D back in the days of Clay Matthews and Chip Banks. However, I'm hoping our next coach is a 4-3 guy. Easier to play in, easier to draft for. If we NEVER take another DE as a project linebacker it will be too soon. No more tweener projects. Peace It is easier to draft for a 4-3 defense, that part is true. But the Browns with 4 down lineman? 3 of them are usually DT's, and one OLB. You only seem to get pressure when you send 5, which isn't good. If you are going to switch to a 4-3, there's a great DE coming out of Penn State this year who's got the size/power to be a decent 4-3 DE.
Last edited by Schadenfreude; 11/06/15 05:22 PM.
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Pettine has been worse than Shurmur this year. By far.
He's approaching Mangini year 1 level. I don't know. I just think Shurmur was just straight up dumb. I think Pettine is just hard headed (which also makes him dumb, just a different type of dumb). Pettine is dumb, Farmer is dumb too. The real problem is that they are both woefully arrogant so they are not gonna change anything because THEY are right. They have surrounded themselves with bafoons like O'neil and DePhillipo so that makes them the smartest guys in the room..scary isn't it. The Browns OC has potential, I don't know if I get rid of him unless I know the person replacing him is a definite upgrade. He's a pass happy dink and dump guy who doesn't like to run the ball. The only coach on this staff I would keep is Tabor, special teams is solid. I like the QB coach.
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Shelton looks like a creampuff at this point Danny looks like the same exact guy he did as a freshman, sophomore, and junior at Washington. A real fat guy that can't move. Movement. Movement is required. So is running.
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Pet said at halftime that he wanted better production from JM...I just watched the game again and the O looked good... No, he said he wanted better production from the pocket because Pettine only wants to win on his own terms... Excluding the first drive against the Jets McCown's average first half over 6 games... 11.8 for 18.8 (62.8%), 125.8 yards (6.7 ypa), .7 TD, .17 INT, 1.7 rushes for 9.3 yards.. and we've averaged scoring 8 points.. (this does not include turnovers which cost us points) Manziel at the half last night was 11 for 18 (61.1%), 128 yards (7.1 ypa), 1 TD, 0 INT, 2 rushes for 11 yards... and we scored 10 points.... and gave up 0 from the offense.. His numbers are almost EXACTLY THE SAME as the average first half from Josh McCown... but when has Pettine ever walked off the field at the half and said we need more production from Josh (in or out of the pocket)? Never.
yebat' Putin
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Josh is Pettine's guy and Johnny's not. O'Neil is Pettine's guy. Pettine is going to stand up for and stick with his guys.
But I don't think there was any ill will by how he answered the questions at the half. Manziel was a bit frenetic at times. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting him to make plays from the pocket first, then move if nothing is there. The problem is there was plenty there that he didn't take when he had it, and ended up moving after not taking it. You can tell Manziel doesn't trust his read or his arm. I think that was Pettine's point. And I agreed with him.
And let's be honest. The story of the second half wasn't the Bengals or the Browns keeping Manziel in the pocket. It was dropped passes. Dropped passes are just short of turnovers when it comes to drive killers. It was also a function of Manziel's accuracy decreasing as the game went on and he continued to press.
I think this can all get better with reps. Not practice reps, game reps. But again, we are going back to Josh unless there's a mandate from Haslam. I think we are getting close to the mandate, but we'll have to see.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I don't agree with some saying that all we need is better coaching. When Manziel is starting, he is a barely 6'0 QB throwing to a bunch of midget receivers. What's Gabriel, 5'8 167#? That's my height and 15 pounds lighter. Are they kidding me. And hell Hawkins is shorter yet. Then you have stick figure Benji with thighs smaller than my arms. I'm shocked they have been as good as they have been. The first guy that needs to go is Farmer and he should have been fired yesterday. Pet sucks too but Farmer deserves more of the credit.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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I don't agree with some saying that all we need is better coaching. When Manziel is starting, he is a barely 6'0 QB throwing to a bunch of midget receivers. What's Gabriel, 5'8 167#? That's my height and 15 pounds lighter. Are they kidding me. And hell Hawkins is shorter yet. Then you have stick figure Benji with thighs smaller than my arms. I'm shocked they have been as good as they have been. The first guy that needs to go is Farmer and he should have been fired yesterday. Pet sucks too but Farmer deserves more of the credit. That's a great point about Manziel's height relative to that of the receivers. It only makes sense that a shorter guy would have a harder time throwing to other short guys, especially when you're throwing over guys that are 5-6" taller than you. I will say though that he was missing Barnidge too and they don't get much taller than him...
Last in, first out, the sign of a true champion!![[Linked Image from i301.photobucket.com]](http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn59/Stetson1376/c8f5fed9-fc01-4b87-bda3-b2b53f0b16cb_zpse708e05e.jpg)
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I don't agree with some saying that all we need is better coaching. When Manziel is starting, he is a barely 6'0 QB throwing to a bunch of midget receivers. What's Gabriel, 5'8 167#? That's my height and 15 pounds lighter. Are they kidding me. And hell Hawkins is shorter yet. Then you have stick figure Benji with thighs smaller than my arms. I'm shocked they have been as good as they have been. The first guy that needs to go is Farmer and he should have been fired yesterday. Pet sucks too but Farmer deserves more of the credit. That's a great point about Manziel's height relative to that of the receivers. It only makes sense that a shorter guy would have a harder time throwing to other short guys, especially when you're throwing over guys that are 5-6" taller than you. I will say though that he was missing Barnidge too and they don't get much taller than him... Yes Barny has been great but does't make up for these receivers. Then they want Manziel to be a pocket guy? lol Just not going to work.
Congratulations to our 2016 NBA Champion CLEVELAND CAVALIERS!!! Greatest comeback in sports history... Hail to the King!
The great QB guru and the Moneyball group: 1-15
Record of Criminal Haslam owned Browns: 20-60 (0.250)
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It's funny though, a tall QB that is throwing "down" to smaller receivers is actually much less likely to get picked than balls thrown to taller guys. It's like a fly ball pitcher as opposed to a ground ball pitcher. The guy who gives up a lot of fly balls is much more likely to give up a homer than the guy that keeps it on the ground.
Last in, first out, the sign of a true champion!
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McCown has missed high his entire career.
It's hard to take you and Deputy seriously when you talk about the position because your hate for Manziel is so freaking obvious.
I think a couple of you are disappointed that he didn't play worse, because you wanted to rip him so bad. Now you are both resorting to making things up.
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j/c
I've read this entire thread. I never really look forward to it as the losses add up, but been a member of Dawg Talk/Dawg Talkers since our teams return. So I push through it.
What I always look for in a FO or coaching staff are small but continued signs of improvement. That they are growing into their roles. I'm not talking about it always being defined by W's and L's. But subtle signs of improvement and growth.
I'm sorry, but I'm simply not seeing that and to me, that's the bottom line. I've seen underwhelming drafts for two years. I've actually see my team regress. I've seen our veterans leave to be replaced with inferior talent.
And the thing is, the parts of the team they've invested in so highly, our D, is the worse part of the team. I'm a huge proponent of continuity. Yet, at the same time, continuity should breed improvement. I'm not talking a huge turnaround overnight. I'm saying there are some improvements that are tangible.
I believe many mistake today's NFL with the 60's and 70's. When salaries were small and the NFL was growing. An owner could take some time to build a team. Monetarily it wasn't crippling. The PR game didn't assassinate you.
This is a different time. Not saying that makes it right mind you. But the pressure and timetable isn't like it was decades ago. You see around the league how others turn things around in short order. They put in place a solid foundation and build on that foundation. That's not what we're seeing here.
It's time the few holdouts realize this situation for what it is. Changes will be made, and they should.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Pet said at halftime that he wanted better production from JM...I just watched the game again and the O looked good...
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No, he said he wanted better production from the pocket because Pettine only wants to win on his own terms...
Excluding the first drive against the Jets
McCown's average first half over 6 games...
11.8 for 18.8 (62.8%), 125.8 yards (6.7 ypa), .7 TD, .17 INT, 1.7 rushes for 9.3 yards.. and we've averaged scoring 8 points.. (this does not include turnovers which cost us points)
Manziel at the half last night was
11 for 18 (61.1%), 128 yards (7.1 ypa), 1 TD, 0 INT, 2 rushes for 11 yards... and we scored 10 points.... and gave up 0 from the offense..
His numbers are almost EXACTLY THE SAME as the average first half from Josh McCown... but when has Pettine ever walked off the field at the half and said we need more production from Josh (in or out of the pocket)? Never.
Excerpted from report on Pettine's presser today: Pettine is still being blasted for halftime comments he made to a sideline reporter in Cincinnati. Moments after Manziel engineered a 92-yard drive resulting in a 12-yard touchdown pass to rookie running back Duke Johnson — much of it by roaming out of the pocket and throwing on the run. The reporter asked, “Coach, what can you say from what you’ve seen from Johnny Manziel and this offense in the first half?”
“Well,” Pettine said, “He’s making some plays out of the pocket. There are a couple balls we want him to make from in the pocket, but you can’t argue with his production. He’s done a nice job throwing the ball on the run. We’ll get him calmed down a little bit in the second half and hopefully get some more production. “
Manziel was 11 of 18 for 128 yards in the first half. He completed only four of 11 passes for 40 yards in the second half and was sacked three times in the fourth quarter while staying in the pocket most of the time. The Browns didn’t make a first down in the second half until less than four minutes remained in the game and used only one running play involving a running back the entire half.
"I thought he did some good things getting out of the pocket in the first half, but there were a couple plays where the read was there early,” Pettine said in his day-after conference call. “Those are the plays we want him to make when they’re there. I thought in the second half that they (the Bengals) did a good job of taking away the first read initially. I thought they did a better job of staying in rush lanes and bottling him up.
“By no means, was that a comment designed (to say) we wanted him to stay in the pocket. When there are plays to be made early with the first read, let’s make them. Then if it breaks down and we need you to get out then go ahead and get out. It is no different from anything I’ve been saying with him all along.”http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20151106/SPORTS/151109653
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Hall of Famer
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I've come to the conclusion that we are tanking. If by tanking, you mean losing, then yes, we are tanking. But the players and coaches most definitely want to win the games. Then why after halftime did they completely abandon the run and not even look to get Duke involved? Duke and Crowell were having decent games. Can't have that. These guys are either tanking or they are stupid beyond measure. Either way it's not good.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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I know this, if Johnny takes a couple more hits like he took toward the end of the game, he won't be around long. I was surprised he got up from that.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
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Legend
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OP
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
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I've come to the conclusion that we are tanking. If by tanking, you mean losing, then yes, we are tanking. But the players and coaches most definitely want to win the games. Then why after halftime did they completely abandon the run and not even look to get Duke involved? Duke and Crowell were having decent games. Can't have that. These guys are either tanking or they are stupid beyond measure. Either way it's not good. Option number two (the stupid beyond measure one). Coaches and players are all about self preservation, losing puts their jobs at risk.
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Joined: Sep 2007
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Probably right. They do seem to be incredibly stupid. So much so that I think a lot of us are looking for another answer. It's so unusual to be this inept. And how the hell do WE keep picking the inept? The odds have to be astronomical that a franchise could be this bad at picking front office, coaches, and players. One would think we could excel at SOMETHING. Anything. I'd be happy with just ONE area.
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All Pro
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All Pro
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Pet wants johnny to stay in the pocket and so does Marvin Lewis lol
I was wondering if anyone else picked up on the coaches halftime comments. Pet: "I want Johny to calm down and stay in the pocket." Lewis: "We gotta keep Manziel in the stinking pocket!" 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Pet said at halftime that he wanted better production from JM...I just watched the game again and the O looked good... No, he said he wanted better production from the pocket because Pettine only wants to win on his own terms... Excluding the first drive against the Jets McCown's average first half over 6 games... 11.8 for 18.8 (62.8%), 125.8 yards (6.7 ypa), .7 TD, .17 INT, 1.7 rushes for 9.3 yards.. and we've averaged scoring 8 points.. (this does not include turnovers which cost us points) Manziel at the half last night was 11 for 18 (61.1%), 128 yards (7.1 ypa), 1 TD, 0 INT, 2 rushes for 11 yards... and we scored 10 points.... and gave up 0 from the offense.. His numbers are almost EXACTLY THE SAME as the average first half from Josh McCown... but when has Pettine ever walked off the field at the half and said we need more production from Josh (in or out of the pocket)? Never. For a couple of days, I've mostly just read peoples opinions. But this hits home big with me. It really did look as if Pettine changed what they were doing that worked in the first half. It actually looked a little like they tied Manziels hands. OK, I get it, the kid had trouble last year, hell he was trouble last year. But while not my favorite player, he is a talented kid if you let him loose. I can't figure out why they would tie his hands like that. THe one thing I've always like about coaches like Shula and Noll and Paul Brown, is that they took the talent they had available and developed a scheme that used those talents. This coaching staff doesn't seem to do that. I am going to hate myself for saying this, but maybe it is indeed time to blow it up again.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If we're going to keep the guy and play him we need to game plan to his strengths which appear to be an unpredictable backyard style, run around and improvise, football. I would agree he needs to improve his pocket presence for the times he can't just take off but if the kid can excel at moving out of the pocket, if it garners first downs, let him play it.
Now if they are going to, as Pit put it, force a square peg into a round hole, Pet needs to get move on from the kid. All the kudos in the world to McCown for his toughness, his grit and determination but in the end, we aren't winning games with him. Too bad too, I'd be all in on McCown and the magic Barnidge combination if it translated into W's.
I just want us to be a respectable team not a perennial bottom dweller. It is so unfair to this franchise and the fan base.
#GMSTRONG
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Legend
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Didn't Schwartz get beat twice for sacks by Dunlap? Joe had a false start, but I don't think he gave up any sacks. But Joe gets the negative grade? I know pass pro isn't the only measurement, but sacks are drive killers. So is not being able to move anybody in the run game. If we could do that, maybe we wouldn't always be facing 3rd and 7.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Joe is a good run blocker.
Only Brown's fans could prefer Schwartz over Joe T. It's freaking amazing.
I guarantee you that not one GM would feel the same way.
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Joe is a good run blocker.
Only Brown's fans could prefer Schwartz over Joe T. It's freaking amazing.
I guarantee you that not one GM would feel the same way. farmer might.......
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Legend
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Legend
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LOL.........you are probably right about that.
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Legend
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Only Brown's fans could prefer Schwartz over Joe T. It's freaking amazing.
No one is even coming close to saying this.... 
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Didn't Schwartz get beat twice for sacks by Dunlap? Joe had a false start, but I don't think he gave up any sacks. But Joe gets the negative grade? I know pass pro isn't the only measurement, but sacks are drive killers. So is not being able to move anybody in the run game. If we could do that, maybe we wouldn't always be facing 3rd and 7. Our RBs rushed for 38 yards in 13 carries; a 2.9 YPC, so its not like anybody was blowing their man away in the run game. Besides, I wasn't trying to bag on Schwartz, just wondered out loud how a guy that got beat twice for sacks could get a positive grade, while our future HOF LT graded out negative. Pro Football Focus, for all their pretense to "quantitative-qualitative analysis", is pretty arbitrary in their grading, IMO, to the point where I question PFF's value.
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Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 10 Bengals
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