DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Alec Scheiner, gaining power and influence over football operations..

Can you narrow down the criteria of the posters you want to respond? We don't want to overload the server.

Geez Dub, we've had football guys in every position at one point or the other.. Having a Football guy isn't an absolute answer.

The RIGHT football guy is and as yet, we've not hired him

When you leave your GM and HC alone to their own devices it invites the bumping of heads and possible disagreements as to how the football decisions should be made and by what criteria. They have to be on the same page but in this situation each one of them has his own page that he thinks should be followed.

The bumping of heads between the GM and HC is what we have now and also what we've had every time our football operations have consisted of only a GM and HC while, at the same time, having no one to set policy and moderate between the two.

Everyone but the owner needs to have a boss. The GM and HC need a boss. But, a GM and HC, who are football guys, cannot have a boss who is not a football guy. You can't, for instance, have an accountant as the supervisor of a construction crew.

I'm done with this.

I wasn't going to chime in, but you're making perfect sense. You need a head of football operations who is a football guy to oversee the other football guys. If the GM and HC are not on the same page 24/7, it spells failure. You have to have a guy to make sure that this happens and remains consistent.

Thank you.

I think this is what Kosar means when he, constantly, says the problem is at the top, systematically. Further, at the top also includes Haslem for not setting this up correctly so there is responsibility and accountability on the football side.

Haslem pays a lot of attention to the business side in an effort to grow profits. But he apparently pays too little attention to the football side in an effort to develop a winning team.

Thus, the "fan experience" at the stadium is top notch. The football team, on the other hand, is a disaster.

Since the current hierarchy set up, GM/HC on their own, is what we've had primarily for the past 16 years resulting in never being able to solve the problem.

Haslem came close when he had Banner between himself and the football guys. But Banner was not a football guy. Yet, he attempted to be the GM, undercutting his own hand-picked GM, and he did questionable things like wanting the coordinators to report directly to him, undercutting his HC. I liked Banner overall, but that set-up was destined to fail.

I said this and got a lot of flack for it when Haslam bought the team. I said he was a marketing guy. He had a product in diesel fuel that was provided to him. All he had to do was market the product better than other diesel suppliers at the consumer level. That he never really had to "build a product".

As such I said that we would see things like changes to the uniforms, changes at the stadium. You know, marketing ideas that were Haslam's bread and butter. He even discussed in his first Browns presser.

So the big question in my mind at the time was his ability to build a winning product on the field. Sort of like being elected as the president. The people you surround yourself by has a great deal to do with the decisions made and the success of that president. I feel that is very much like building an NFL team.

I don't doubt that Haslam is doing what he feels need to be done on building a winner. What I do question is the people he is surrounding himself with and the structure he has decided upon in attempting to build a winner. I have no doubt in my mind that he needs a head of football operations to oversee both the GM and HC. That can not be accomplished by someone who has as little, or even less experience making day to day football decisions than our current raw staff.

When considering these basic facts; First time GM, first time HC, first time OC, first time DC.......

.... I find it ludicrous that anyone can even hint that we don't need a football guy to oversee all of this.

Alec Scheiner is a football guy. him and farmer watch film togther.

Yeah, I'm a football guy too. I post on here and watch the games.

do you watch it with a current GM? if you do then yea... i guess.. but i wouldnt be able to tell from some of your po.......oh forget... too easy.

Alec had the ear of JH in training camp.

A question for you, bro. Why are rumors w/no verification taken as gospel by most of you, yet facts about Banner and Scheiner interfering w/the coaching staff are dismissed?

Yeah, it's a rhetorical question. I know the answer. It's just that if I put it like that, it sounds nicer.

I don't think you need a "football guy" at the top. Not everyone has the physical attributes to play college or professional football. That does NOT mean that they don't understand the game.

I am not asking you--or anyone--to agree w/me, but I maintain we made a huge mistake when we fired Banner.

JH hated banner after a blow up x 2-3. HE fired him because he could. JH views nothing as a mistake.

I don't know. I think there were a few factors as to why Haslam fired Banner:

--The Three Stooges thing. That was bad publicity for the team and it had to kill Haslam, who cares so much about marketing, to hear that over and over and over. Heck, we have guys on here who vigorously defend this regime, but the The Three Stooges was in his sig.

--I think Haslam was upset w/Banner because Schiano was recommended to Haslam as a guy that we should consider hiring as our next HC. Banner shot that down and wanted no part of Schiano.

--The media and fan scrutiny was intensifying while we searched for a new coach. The media and fans were questioning what was taking so long. Banner wanted to wait and make a pitch to bring Quinn in here. Haslam did not want to wait and yet another wedge was driven between the two.

Legit take. Three stooges was blamed on Banner by JH, curly-joe and all. Banner's anti-Schiano rhetoric was the first major blow-up. Banner was anti-Chud ultimately and so was JH but when JH wants to make a move and others are not in agreement, THEY are wrong by default.

Again, I have said this repeatedly, JH is a great business problem solver, not a great football business problem solver.

I don't believe having a football guy is needed in some cases to oversee the HC and GM. But when your entire coaching staff and GM are all rookies, I do think you need a strong head of player personnel in charge. And I do believe he has to be a strong football guy.

Now if you have a much more experienced staff in charge, maybe not so much.

I hear what you are saying and I am not trying to argue. I just think that there are guys out there that have very good football minds, but simply didn't have the physical abilities to be really, really good at football.

I mean.....would you wanna make Greg Hardy your team president. He is good at football. LOL bro............just messin' w/you.

I should add this. You know that I am not real high on this regime. The stuff about Scheiner doesn't upset me too much, though. If it was just an agenda, I could rant and rave w/mac. But.........I don't know if it's that big of a deal. It could be, but I am just not sure right now.

All I know is that we absolutely cannot afford to have another draft and free agency period that has sucked as bad as the last two. I really feel that Farmer won't keep Gipson. I also feel that when guys like Skrine, Gipson, Joe T, and Kruger are not wanted by the team...........that it hurts team morale. Do you remember that thread I started earlier this year that all the homers laughed at?

I'm rambling.

Banner was at the forefront talking about/making decisions for FA signings, draft selections, draft trades he was offered yet passed on, being part of a "consensus", etc. Scheiner was not.....yet. Frankly, Banner was THE decision maker regarding all football decisions. It didn't end well for obvious reasons. Scheiner isn't there yet.

At this point, if you think Banner and Scheiner had the same position/power, you are sadly mistaken.

i think Scheiner took a big chunk of the power that banner had. i think its one of the reasons he is watching film. now i do not think he is jumping into personal yet.... but who knows....

He was President when Banner was here....President when he wasn't. In a FO that is very small (like all NFL teams), people naturally gravitate. I do believe Scheiner has made a substantive impact on Haslem. I just don't think it's trickled into daily football decisions.

There are plenty of teams that have a business person with the final say over the roster (whether it is the owner or it is a "bean counter.")

Usually, it is the owner.

Who is not a "football man."

yea and who do you think is his eyes and ears of whats going on day to day?

Agreed.

Question who is the biggest liar?

mac.

J/C

All I know is that football guys have been in charge for the last 20 years and we have stunk.

+1

It's a myth.. they aren't really green. smh

These types of threads are more disturbing than the ones talking about this player sucking or that player sucking or even the OC or DC being a moron... these types of problems are far more serious when you have these rumors of total dysfunction at the top.

Team calling Browns at trade deadline didn’t know who to call

Posted by Darin Gantt on November 13, 2015, 3:01 PM EST
link


While this doesn’t necessarily qualify as breaking news, a look at the way the trade deadline was handled by the Browns does point to a consistent theme.

The Browns are kind of a mess.

According to Albert Breer of the NFL Network, the moves the Browns didn’t make at the deadline might have been a function of some organizational dysfunction.

It was clear that a number of players were floated as trade chips for a team in a perpetual rebuild, from left tackle Joe Thomas to outside linebackers Paul Kruger and Barkevious Mingo.

But according to one team that placed a call, it was hard to tell who was in charge. Upon reaching General Manager Ray Farmer, that team was told he’d have to consult with coach Mike Pettine and team president Alec Scheiner, and once he did, the price seemed “prohibitively high.”

Perhaps the deals not being made was simply an issue of compensation vs. value.

But if chain-of-command is actually an issue, it’s one created by owner Jimmy Haslam. He’s changed philosophies and personnel often, not showing any signs of having a direction. Putting together a system of checks and balances seems like a good theory, but if it exists to the point of paralysis at a deadline, it’s not effective.

Of course, their record suggests that as well.

Mac, I can believe that. I don't think it is desired or by design. I think Farmer has put himself in to a position of weakness after his suspension. I don't think he is in a position of being able to make key decisions without seeking permission from several people.

I can't say I have a problem with that.

I don't know about that Mac, but if Scheiner is making the calls, I say lets wait and see what he does before we simply write him off. It's not like the football people around here have done a crack job at making football decisions.

I wouldn't want Scheiner calling plays, but a person doesn't need to be a "football guy" to be able to tell who is a good football player. It isn't as complicated as some seem to think.

...then it's high-time that Haslam make a public statement and put to rest these rampant speculation/rumors. Perhaps he could acknowledge that this is an issue and that he is addressing it. Whatever the case may be, tackle the issue for you are being made to look foolish...

mac, I don't think anyone would classify me as a homer. With that said, you are making a big jump when you say that Farmer was cut out of the trade talks and Scheiner was in charge of those talks.

From the article, it appears that Farmer, Pet, and Scheiner are all part of the decision-making process. I don't know if that is the correct way to do business, but there is no evidence to support your claim.