DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Paris Terror Attacks

Just like it's your right to bare arms.

If you are acting like a lunatic it's my right to drop the dime.

They have hacked them before. This is the first time they have gone public with that knowledge.

After reading this thread, a couple of obvious things stood out.

Firstly, there's zero ways to compare ISIS to Nazi Germany. In case anyone missed it, the Germans wore uniforms. You could identify your enemy. There's no possible way to identify an ISIS member or members from any other Muslim. So it's quite true that genocide would be the only option.

Secondly, the targets the French hit were targets that had been hit before. It basically had no impact on ISIS. It was more for publicity to try to display their anger than anything substantial.

Swish mentioned cancer. Cancer is a terrible disease that closely mirrors Islamic extremism. The thing about cancer is it is surgically removed. You don't cut of your leg to remove breast cancer. So it is with a group like ISIS.

The more innocent civilians we kill in the name of fighting terrorism, the more enemies we create. This is the quandary. In the name of oil we have created this mess. Yet people fight changing our energy policies. Sometimes people tend to bite of their own nose just to spite their face.

This is a very complicated problem that I have no real answer for. But I've seen some scenarios which obviously aren't. I do see a lot of common sense in bonding America, Europe and Russia to fight a common enemy. But it seems our nation is trying to fight yet another conflict which requires deposing the leader of Syria along with its fight against ISIS. In turn this will leave yet another void of power in the middle east just like we did in Iraq. It seems we never learn.

After having lived most of my life under the threat of Nuclear Annihilation, I find a bunch of guys shooting things up to be terrible and sad but really no big thang to fret over. Odds are they don't kill me or mine while Soviet Nukes would have killed most of us and made the survivors wish they had died in the blast.

I have been in the Bunkers three times in my lifetime, mostly in the 60's. That was real fear for me. In America, these nut jobs will find themselves in a bit of a jam because as Americans, we can shoot back and will.

Jc

How are all these refugees coming here to begin with? Do they have valid visas or are they illegals? If they are illegals, wouldn't we send them back?

if their refugee's, they'll most likely gain asylum.

thats not the same as illegals.

They're not here illegally nor have we really even taken in any refugees. There are 4 million refugees from Syria and we've taken 1,500 of those. Most of the refugees are just good people trying to escape being slaughtered. Obama is right when he says we need to stay the course.

But to try to answer your question, refugees have a very special designation within the UN that makes them a bit of both. But we should certainly not send people back to a wartorn country. That should be obvious.

It's ok, we are doing background checks on them. I'm sure Syria keeps very good records.... and I'm sure their government, which is under siege, has nothing better to do than spend time assisting us with background checks.

I don't think that's so obvious.

Let's say that 99% of the refugees are peaceful and good people. It's the 1% extremists that we are worried about. Furthermore, let's say that only one in ten of that 1% will actually act on that and attack innocent people. So maybe 1/1000 refugees are terrorists like one of the Paris attackers who disguised himself as a refugee. If you let in 10,000 refugees (as per Obama's plan), you might be looking at, on average, 10 attackers. That is completely unacceptable.

So yes, send them back to a wartorn country. Train them and send them back with good weaponry to fight ISIS. Ally them up with the Peshmerga and whoever else is friendly to US/NATO. Support them with air strikes at the very least (US is already doing this for the Kurds).

I think that is a generous enough of an offer. If they don't like it, they can go somewhere else. You have to understand that mainland U.S. is the top priority target for ISIS and other extremists. Don't make it easy for them.

"might" "on average" heh

This 1 percent number is outrageous. ISIL isn't that big. If 1% of the 4 million refugees were ISIL members they'd double in strength. Also, considering HOW the refugee process works, the US is at an advantage compared to France. Any refugee that can get to France (Which is incredibly challenging and super difficult) can declare there and become a refugee. They could do the same with the U.S., but that'd require them to somehow illegally smuggle themselves into the United States from Syria without anyone knowing -- which, at that point, they might actually be a terrorist, because that would be such a challenging trip that you'd have to be bad to try. The U.S. will get their refugees from refugee camps, these people are better vetted.

I don't believe for one second anyone knows the actual number of ISIS members or sympathizers. All we really know is that as of Friday, there are eight less.

I mean come on, if they had any idea who they are, how many there are and where they are, what would we have to worry about?

The vast majority of those refugees have gone to countries that are not involved in the fight against ISIS. Of course the numbers are going to be higher for countries like the U.S and France that are actively bombing ISIS targets (hence my estimates of 1%/0.1% depending on how you look at it).

The estimates on the size of ISIS varies wildly (especially the CIA and Peshmerga estimates) but wiki has it pegged between 52.6k and 257.9k: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Besides it's not just ISIS; it's Islamic extremism in general whether it be ISIS, Al-Qaeda, or one of any number of other groups. It's not an exact science obviously but I don't think my numbers are so unreasonable. How many Syrian refugees has France taken in? One of the Paris attackers disguised himself as a Syrian refugee. ISIS has promised to hide its fighters among refugees. Are those facts accurate? I realize we are dealing with small sample sizes here but I'd rather the U.S. take all reasonable precautions.

They go through an extensive screening and vetting process by Homeland Security and the UN. They aren't simply walking into our country anonymously like they are in Europe. It can take 2 years or more. They actually get closer scrutiny than international students and tourists applying for visas

4:30 minutes

And then the hard part of learning to be an American...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=429_1447715338

Thank you for sharing this.

I'm here for The People.

Honestly, this is the beginning of the Gog Magog conflict...According to prophecy, I honestly had this pegged another 4-5 years down the road, I knew we were close, but this is much closer then even i realized.

Most have no idea the real gravity of this situation and what what this actually means...no idea....heaven help us...

Not worried until I hear the horns.

Keep your lamps trimmed brothers. Then when you hear the horns you won't have to be worried.

Interesting Clem.. could it not be argued that the circumstances this time around are just a bit different? Traditionally you have some kind of a civil war or other crisis that doesn't involve the US at all, so we take in refugees... So I know she said that historically it has worked but is there precedence of it working when the likelihood of the refugees being an anonymous member of a group like ISIS is so high?

No, not really. They're under a pretty heavy scrutiny and have sit in refugee camps for years. There's also not a high probability that refugees are ISIL members or that ISIL members make up even a significant amount of refugees.

We should only accept Christian Syrian refugees.

After the Korean War, we brought many South Koreans to America.
After Vietnam, we brought many South Vietnam refugees to America.

Why do you want to bring Muslim refugees to America? Were we so
stupid as to bring NORTH KOREAN or NORTH VIETNAMESE to America?
NO!
This has always been the American thing to do!

"Help Wanted- Irish Need Not Apply"
"We can't afford to have a Kennedy in the White House... he'll take his orders from the Pope."
"Mexicans are lazy."
"Those Eye-talians are all in the Mafia- we should keep them out."
"I wouldn't trust a German as far as I could throw him... remember WWI & II?"
"We cannot afford to endanger ourselves from within. Round up Lt. Sulu's family- and place them behind fences."

This has been happening since America was founded. The 'new kid on the block' has always been regarded with suspicion, hostility and loathing. It's part of the American fabric.

And yet every single time, those new kids have kids of their own... and those kids become as 'American' as any who came before them.

If we limit immigration/refugee status to only 'Christian' people, how long will it be before we narrow the requirements to specific sects of Christianity? Were does it end?

And at what point do we no longer take in anyone?

Slippery slopes run in both ways from the mountaintop.

Leave the Race card at home Clem, we are at War with Muslims and no one else!

I know, I know, there are Radical and Regular Muslims. So why aren't these Regular Muslims refugees of fighting age not begging us to train them so they can go back to fight the Radical Muslims and reclaim their homelands?

Where is the Great Muslim Army to fight and punish those who are bringing shame to their religion?

Why is the West risking bringing the enemy to the shores of Europe and America? Defend us first!

We also didn't accept as many Jewish people during WW2 and it had tragic consequences.

Because their homeland is a war torn, hell hole. I wouldn't want to go back, would you?

Yea, just let the West take care of it. Train and go form up with other Muslim Nations. We will provide the arms and air cover. If you were forced out of America, wouldn't you want to take it back?
Nationhood is not a given, it has to be earned. Then and only then will you have the Pride and understanding of how valuable it is.

Not if the place I was forced to was waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

Spoken like a real Patriot.

And that's a big problem. There are over 5 million troops in the nations of the middle east that oppose ISIS. Yet they are unwilling to unite to fight them themselves.

Which I why I oppose sending any troops to Syria. ISIS is the enemy of middle eastern nations who are simply sitting on their hands doing nothing. Let them stand up and then we'll talk about it.

Who said I was a Patriot?

You say these things because you live in a country that is great to live in. If you had SCUD missiles flying around like lightning bugs, I think you'd be singing a different tune. Especially if you had a family you were trying to protect.

sigh...people talk real tough behind the safety of their keyboard.

Being a Patriot has nothing to do with blindly following along with what politicians tell you to believe nor what the government spoon feeds you.

Defending the world from killers is not tough talk, it is common sense.

France is taking the lead now so we can follow.

Wait, haven't we been droning the poo out of Syria for months now?

Good point. Patriotism is, in many cases, acting in ways just the opposite of what our government would prefer.

I agree. But that is not what he said.

Sorry I'm not willing to die for a country that only exists hypothetically.

They are praying, that's what they believe in. Having an army would be so against their religious beliefs.

They are very peaceful people, And for them to act like the radicals would make the radical.

Muslims don't believe in fighting? Well that is News to me.