DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum More on Manziel

I read a rumor that someone saw Joker Phillips grocery shopping three hours before the game yesterday. I can barely type this without laughing. LOL.

I love Joker as WR coach but my goodness, he is the most incompetent head coach ever. he could stand there and do nothing and still manage to set us back another 3 years lol.

Perfect for losing these next four games. Although it looks like Pettine is going to make it through this week. It would be cruel for Haslam to fire him after he already gave the first press conference of the week and addressed the team.

Not just to you, but to everyone who shares this desire: Please stop being a fan of my team! You people are sending bad vibes.

How can you guys be a fan of your team and yet want your team to lose?!

The thinking isn't logical at all. There are no sure-fire franchise QBs in this draft that would require a #1 pick to get. But there are some very good players available that don't require that 1st overall selection.

If you can't feel good for wins for yourself then for God's sake think about the players who run it out there every Sunday and have their hearts torn out with the losses. It hurts them a hell of a lot more than it hurts you. Or does it hurt you? Apparently not. But they could use a win, or more, to justify their efforts. Wouldn't you want that for them, if not for yourself?

Wanting your team to "lose out" has, in my opinion, a selfish motive of wanting that #1 Overall draft pick for yourself while caring absolutely nothing about the affect it has on the organization or the players.

I can't think of a more selfish, self-centered attitude to have as a fan.

But maybe that's just my opinion.

Would you feel differently if Andrew Luck were in this draft?

This team is dead this year. That is very clear. The players are getting paid, that is all most of them care about anyway. Playing hard is just a way to get more money (I am fine with that). At this point the future is the only thing we can look to, if that means we have to lose games this year I am fine with that.




Having the chance to draft whoever we want is a huge advantage.




I think the opposite. What is more selfish than wanting to win to have a gratifying moment in the now, when it could have adverse effects on the future of the team?

Perhaps. But that is a hypothetical. Hypothetically, I would welcome the losses if it meant that Scarlett Johansson would suddenly find me irresistible and become my sex slave.

But she won't do that and Luck's not in the draft.

How in the world do you know that their hearts are being torn out? Every single game they are losing and players are laughing, having fun, shoot after the game they are hugging and laughing with our supposedly in state rival... Might just be my opinion but it sure as hell doesn't look like their hearts are being ripped out. I see a team that doesn't care if they win or lose, they don't put forth any effort, Joe Thomas said after the game it's a job. Repeat those words to yourself, it's a JOB, nobody on the Browns team is getting their hearts ripped out because they are getting paid regardless if they win or lose. If they cared half as much as the fans do they wouldn't be 2-10 right now.

That's a take I'd rather not even respond to.

not to mention Alex Mack laughing about the loss after the game last Monday.

I laughed too. My heart wasn't ripped out. Neither was his. Numb. Complacent. That's where we are.

The difference is, he's getting paid millions to not care.

Sadly though, that's where we're at. How many of our players did you see devastated or even upset by this loss? Hartline was a little emotional and that's about it. The only ties these guys (save a very select few) have with the Cleveland Browns are the paychecks. I don't see any emotional bonds being formed with the city or the team. It shows on the field. The only way to fix this problem is to show some competence and win some games.

don't worry manziel will win just enough games to keep us from that number one draft spot and then we will be so desperate for a QB we will trade the moon to move up and get one. then after another horrible season we will fire pettine and start over and still not have a starting QB. Manziel will then be released and play for an organization without a stick up their arse and go on to have a decent career if he stays sober long enough to do so.

I'm not sure if there will be a QB picked inside the top 3 and if there is then it'll probably be Paxton. I'm good on that.

well obviously pettine thinks he is a nfl QB. he thinks he might have more upside than the cocaine cowboy.

Kirksey, when he got the 15 yarder for his "confrontation" with Hill (?) when after a TD, he went to the fans in the end zone seats. A bit of spirit there...

I missed this. Was it on the sidelines or in a presser?

Agreed.

Playing to lose is just dumb.

What's he done lately?

Playing for a crap shoot draft choice is just demented.

Look at Luck, look at RG3. People were wanting us to tank to get either of them. People were wanting us to trade a whole draft for either of them. What are they doing now - luck and rg?

He's been fighting injuries this year. Since being drafted he has 3 seasons of going 11-5, 3 playoff victories.....oh the horror.

Does it really matter who starts the remainder of the season? There will be a new GM, HC and fresh face at the QB position next season and they are dropping games now to make it happen.

We didn't tank, we didn't trade away our draft and we drafted like crap and wasted it.

Precisely.

And now the killer question: Who, in this draft, is a team changer?

Here's the answer: no one.

It's been that way since forever.

I'm not as schooled as some on draft picks, but tell me the last player that was drafted early on, to a team in dire need of players, that made a difference. Some might say Luck. I say "what's he doing now?"

RG3? yeah, really?

Tell me one draft pick that went to a bad team that changed that team. Again, more of a question as, like I said, I don't get into the draft much.

I know the Browns got Weeden. That didn't do anything. Manziel, that hasn't panned out. Mingo - yeah. Shelton - yeah.

Look at Bridgwater, or Bortles, or Carr (recent picks) their teams are improving, no doubt, but none of those teams tanked to get them, or even traded half the draft to get them.


Tired of it. Each year we hear "oh, we drafted player X, this will be good. We're moving up."

Or, every other year or so, we get "oh, we got coach X, he'll turn us around".........yup, 15 years of drafts, 15 years of new coaches every 2.4 years.

No, one player isn't turning this team around.

what's going to turn us around?

I mean... besides an exorcism or human sacrifices?

Drowning in his team's mediocrity. Arrested potential, Andrew Luck is. RG3 was never worth it lol

Wasn't the news that Johnny was starting broken by Ian Rappaport based on "inside sources". Ian has been the poster boy of factual insider information?

We need better coaching for the talent we do have. We need a QB that is good enough to unify the locker room. We need a defense that will stop the run so that we don't feed them easy pass plays on third down.

If I was Lynch, since the windfall for the rookies is over, I'd stay in school instead of facing coming to this debacle.

I was thinking the same thing.

Don't know.

But I guarantee a draft pick won't. I guarantee changing coaches every 2 +- years won't. We've got over 15 seasons of proof of that.

How about, instead of hiring new coaches every couple of years that run a different system - and we don't give them time to get the players we need/want for that system........how about we stick with a coach for a bit?

How about, instead of getting a new GM every 3-4 years, we stick with someone for 5 years?

We constantly bring in coaches that "change the system" to suit them, but we don't have the personnel to run that system........then, wash, rinse and repeat......always saying "well, they sucked".

I'm not saying keep Pet and/or Farmer, and/or O neil. But dang, at some point in time we need to realize that changing crap all the time isn't working out.

I look at the Steelers. 3 coaches in how many years? 30? 40?

Look at the bengals. Lewis sucked, and sucked, and sucked........till they didn't suck.

One person might say "Shanahan in Atlanta"....yeah, what's their record now?

Microwave society: I want it, and I want it now, and if I don't get it now I'll fire people."

Sports, jobs (how many people do you know that want more money, but don't put in the work to earn more money?)

I want it, and I want it now. For the Browns, that involves changing coaches and systems every 2.4 years. How's that working out? Steelers. Lewis in cincy?

If we can use Steelers and Ravens as the human sacrifices, I'm all for it.

I don't think you are a bad fan. You want to see your team win. Nothing wrong w/that, my friend.

You know...........before the season, I started a thread about what do we do at qb next year. My point was that it would be prudent to play Manziel this year to see whether or not he was the guy. I said that the lack of talent on this roster made it almost a guarantee that we would not be a playoff team this year.

A lot of people replied angrily and w/the usual insults. But, I still think that is precisely what we should have done. Now, what do we do?

We are in no man's land. We're going to be forced to draft a qb in a qb class that I think is very weak. And it's looking more and more like Pet will be fired and Farmer will retain his job. Does anyone really trust Farmer to draft a quality qb?

Quoted for truth.

It cracks me up when I see stuff about us tanking. We are not trying to lose, we simply are not good enough to win. It's not intentional, it's reality. We have neither the talent, desire or coaching to win in this league.

We absolutely blow.

I'm on board this train as well.

Yeah, let's purposefully lose out to get ONE player in the Draft... and in return we have decent FA's leave in droves, and have to overpay other FA's to come here. But if we didn't do that, we wouldn't be able to wonder why we can't develop and retain talent, and why no one wants to play here

IF Johnny get's named the starter again, I seriously doubt Pet's doing it to save his job. If Jimmy fires him, I honestly think it hurts the organization more than it will to retain him. Not saying I think Pet will end up our savior, but firing him shows zero stability within the organization and I really do believe that if he goes, we could very well end up going in to the draft without a HC. I mean, seriously who the hell would want to come here? I think the ONLY way you convince anyone of real talent to coach this team is to include a small stake in the franchise that they keep if they get fired before their agreed contract is up.

I just thought of something.... maybe the thing that is missing this season is Pet's dad? Remember all last year how we kept hearing about how his dad kept critiquing everything... I haven't heard one mention of Papa Pet at all this year... is that the difference????

Delay it by one season? Sure, why not??

If you are the best QB in the draft, you are almost always going into a bad situation, on a bad team. A team that can do anything well usually doesn't hold the 1st pick in the draft.

Lynch is as good as out. His head coach, the brain to that offense, left. Memphis is getting a new coach too. Chances are he won't be as good as the last coach. It's arguably a worse position than the Browns. At the end of the day a bad year in Cleveland is just one year until your out of Cleveland. One bad year at Memphis could cost him millions.

First, let's have some facts here:
2003 8-8 (2nd place)
2004 8-8 (3rd place)
2005 11-5 (1st place - lost W/C game to Pittsburgh)
2006 8-8 (2nd place)
2007 7-9 (3rd place)
2008 4-11-1 (3rd place)
2009 10-6 (1st place - lost W/C game to NY Jets)
2010 4-12 (4th place)
2011 9-7 (3rd place - lost W/C game to Houston)
2012 10-6 (2nd place - lost W/C game to Houston)
2013 11-5 (1st place - lost W/C game to San Diego)
2014 10-5-1 (2nd place - lost W/C game to Indianapolis)

Yes, Lewis had TWO "Cleveland Brown-like" seasons. However, his record going into that first 4 win season was 42-38. He followed that up with a TEN win season. He's followed up his second 4 win season with FOUR playoff seasons and a total of FORTY regular season wins. If this is "sucking", PLEASE, sign me up RIGHT NOW.

Lewis had PROVEN himself in his first five years to be a relatively decent coach. Since the Browns have been back, which coach (or coaches) have PROVEN themselves in a similar fashion to warrant a 3rd or 4th year in your opinions?

Yes, continuity is important. But NOT if the team is regressing, which CLEARLY it is. Is it Pettine? His staff? Farmer's "ability" to build a roster? One thing IS clear: The Browns DON'T have the right people in charge right now. The defense is a mess. The "talent" is VERY questionable. I'm NOT willing to risk ANOTHER year under this "leadership" group.

Continuity? Yes. When the Browns get the right people in place and make steady progress. Hopefully, this starts in 2016.

:slow clap:

I think many fans believe Lewis was HC of the Bengals since the 90's. 12 Years, didn't have a losing season until year 5, only 3 losing seasons, never back to back, 50% of the time in the playoffs.

I would hire Marvin Lewis in a heart beat.............as GM.

The problem is. If there is the disconnect between Pettine and Farmer that most seem to think there is ( and it sure does seem that way to me), one of them probably has to go. Even if Farmer is the problem, more than likely Pettine will be gone also as we would be trying to hire a GM that is willing to take on Pettine as the HC. I am not sure who we would find that would do that nor do I believe it would work.

I would be willing to give it one more year if I saw any sign of improvement between now and the end of the year, but to date I find absolutely nothing to give me confidence going forward.

I agree that changing coaches every two years is not a good idea but that doesn't mean we should stick with something so obviously broken.