DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Haslam calls a meeting after Bengals game

Choices has consequences. Manziel can't help himself and his choices are ruining his NFL career. One day he may look back and regret it, but these are the choices he made, he has to live with them.

After thinking about it for an extra two minutes, I guess you are right. Stupid decisions do not make a person stupid.

I just don't want to pretend that Manziel should get a pass just because he is young.

i agree, he shouldn't get a pass.

but with this team, with the struggles we have, we can't afford at this point to discipline our potential franchise QB over some photo's and a stupid cover up over nothing.

I made the point with Cam Newton, sometimes, people put in a starting position, and KNOW they have that starting spot, changes them to do what they have to do in order to not only lead their team, but better their lives.

4 games maybe isn't enough to know if manziel is the guy, but we need to see if he shows any competency as THAT guy, and starting guys like Davis isn't gonna cut it.

He's not stupid, he just doesn't care and always got away with it, which is probably why Pettine tried to instill some discipline, but it's too late with someone like Manziel, he's a hypocrite for life, living the Amercian Dream, b%!%oooatches. He doesn't care Honey Badger style. When he flames out soon, he will get rewar$e$ for "being himself" by Hollywoo$...and the Johnny show goes on. He doesn't care about others, that's why nobody really likes him within the locker room.

Pretty much agree. He's gotten away with doing his own thing for so long, with his athletic ability enabling him to disregard any authority/guidance - why would he start now?

I have to believe you are missing the point here. It's not about what you or I believe in terms of forgiving JFF. And yes, in the eyes of this corporation, I believe last year plays a major role in their handling of JFF.

Let's be real here. The NFL is a major corporate enterprise. The players are nothing more than an investment by a corporation. JFF was signed to a four year contract. Each of those years represent one fourth of that investment. Last year, JFF's issues cost this team one fourth of their investment in JFF. As a corporation, this team felt it should take every possible avenue available to prevent seeing this same issue rear its ugly head again.

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, without accountability last season, we saw what this problem escalated into. If a corporation sees something that causes their investment to be devalued, they will take every opportunity to prevent that same issue in the future.

You see, it's not about what we believe. It's not about whether we like JFF or not. These are corporate moves concerning one of their investments. It's not personal. And in case you missed it, JFF went to rehab this year, not last year. I'm sure any corporation would be concerned about that.

Exactly right. This didn't happen in a vacuum or as a one-off thing... this, as Joe Thomas alluded to, is the culmination of a pattern of things.

Choices & Actions have consequences. You are free to choose to do anything you wish, but you are not free from the consequences of those choices. He gambled and try to sneak one past the team after promising to not do what he ended up intentionally going out to do, he got caught, then he lied to their faces about it. Whether or not anyone feels he should have been in that position (which, let's face it, if not for his existing track record he would NOT have put himself in that position), he knew he was in it AND ACCEPTED that he was - and then still chose to ignore it.

The child straight up earned the smack to his ego.

I'm not missing the point at all Pit. I understand why they did it completely, I just do not agree with it. I don't know how many times I can say that without people hearing it. It is totally up to them what they want to do, and they feel it was the right thing to do, nothing I can do about it but disagree.

That's cool. I hope you understand I wasn't actually trying to argue with you. Just trying to put it into another perspective.

When you are at a tradeshow you are still "at work"... which is different than being on vacation. I knew a couple guys who used to go to a lot of tradeshows, every trip involved a couple trips to the strip club and one of the guys was the boss.. .but they were away from the tradeshow, the other vendors, the potential customers, etc..

Manziel was essentially on vacation and there is nothing overtly wrong with the video that got posted.

If Manziel had an agreement that he wouldn't drink at all, then he violated that agreement... but I would argue that it was not a fair deal.

No problem Pit, trust me, I've heard ad-nauseam the other perspective

I do understand it and certainly do not fault others for feeling that way. I can certainly see how that is the case. When I looked at from an investment standpoint I want to see what my investment has, not sit him on the bench.

and by all accounts, he did have such an agreement with the coach & FO.... and on top of that, when you are a high profile person like Manziel, your image and persona - and how you represent the organization - is *ALWAYS* on the clock.

It's not rocket surgery. They gave him rope, he tied it around his neck.

The thing I don't get is why he has to go out. Didn't Derek Jeter crack the code for all athletes? Who was more famous than him and we have never seen one picture or video of him in a compromising situation (and he definitely had his share of fun).

Some people just love the limelight.

Yes. Past behavior can lead to different rules for different people.

At my previous employer, there were people who could not close the door to their office, and others who were not allowed to work from home, because they have proven to not be worthy of those privileges.

This is where accountability comes into play. Someone who has gone through his formative years without being introduced to it will struggle with the concept later.

Now, imagine you're a famous person. You're not Joe Schmoe. You're on the public stage anytime you go out. That might be one of the downfalls of being famous.

Then, let's take your example: You're a Joe Schmoe. Big wig at your company, but an unknown to 99.9$ of the public. You can go to a trade show, be professional there, and then go out after and be an animal if you wish. You don't break laws, you don't get in the media........hey, you're good to go.

There's a difference.


Agreed. For you or me. He's not you or me. He's "Johnny F Football" He may not have created the persona, but he's certainly embraced it. Plus, he was asked to not be a distraction.

Sorry man - if he needs to party so bad that he can't wait a few weeks to do it.....don't know what to say.

"Hey, DC, we're promoting you to national manager. Now, we understand you have some partying issues - but please, promise you won't embarrass the company this weekend on your trip to where ever." And you say "Oh, no problem."

Next morning you're in the news: National manager of firm that does many and vast gov't. construction projects was out, drunk."

Think your boss would have a little chat with you? Yeah, you'd probably be fired as opposed to collecting your check while sitting in the office.



I'm self employed. I can do whatever I want. If I want to party and get drunk out in public, I can. If I want to have an affair, I can.

But I also will pay a price in the eyes of my customers. That price could/would very well be: You aren't working for us anymore.

Now, since I'm only "famous" in n.w. Ohio, sure, I can go to Cleveland, or Columbus, or Florida, etc and do what I want. I'm not known there, and those people aren't my customers and never will be. However, if I put pictures of me being a jackwad out in public, I still might pay for it.

We have a friend - top dog at a company - a company that does hundreds of millions in work. He's a couple of years older than me - but we were friends in school. Grew apart after college. Got back together due to our kids, and wives. Took him over a year to be himself around us. Image. He wanted to be sure Arch and Mrs. Arch weren't looking for something to make him look bad.

The dude is loaded. He was nervous about allowing "commoners" into his/their life. It was the old "what will they think of us", and "what are they going to say about us" thing.

Rambling, I know. John Manziel may not have created his fame, but he sure ran with it. Can't have it both ways, in my opinion.

I do well for myself. I'm not rich. But I'm very leery of looking "wealthy" when I'm out and about. From clothes, to vehicles, to everything. While I'm a self made man to an extent - I ain't jack if people think I"m making too much.

The problem isn't Manziel, it's his celebrity. What he does is no different than what many, many NFL players do on a week by week basis.

We seem to have a "coach" who wants to be a Daddy more than being a winning coach. Screw that.


Joe Namath never got benched because Weeb didn't like him wearing Mink coats, posing in pantyhose, or drinking like a fish in the N.Y.C. clubs. Weeb just cared about if he showed up on time and played well on Sundays....and I would bet that Weeb overlooked a few curfew violations and Joe being late for a meeting here and there.

Weeb got it. His job was to coach a winning team, not be a Hall Monitor.

Johnny Manziel is not Joe Namath. He is a second year player who has done nothing.

But by you he did do something, he lied, remember.. a sin never forgiven by cfrs15...

I sometimes would love to know if you really missed your plane trip to Cleveland for the game and your brothers birthday... or did you just make up a lie because you didn't want to come see that game.

Thank you for proving my point. He has done something and that something was detrimental to the team.

I actually don't care that he lied. All I care about is if he is on the field or not. The lying (among many other things) is what kept him off the field.

He may not be, but Joe wasn't all that good. The point is our Boob of a coach is benching a guy because he sings some karoke and calls him on it rather than not even caring.

Until Manziel gets in to some sort of legal trouble, or breaks some NFL rule, Pet needs to quit fretting about Johnny and spend the added time on how to better coach his football team.


Johnny is playing his position better than Pet is coaching his team.

It's time to drop all the hate for the drinking and lying... and try to focus on what he can do as a QB on the field.

The past and dwelling on it can be as harmful as the act.

Like I said, I personally don't care about what Manziel does. All I care about what is what he does on the field. The only reason I am having this discussion is because Manziel got benched. If he was allowed to play I probably wouldn't even care.

Dwelling on the past can be a bad thing, but let's not ignore the fact that Manziel blew his trustworthiness to hell last season and hasn't earned it back yet.

Yes, stop all hate for the drinking and lying, lets give him jello shots on the sidelines and tell him how good we are.

Times have changed, too, peen.

No doubt, but not that MUCH. Pet is coaching like his Dad coached HS players in 1969.

Look at Jim Brown - what he was accused of.

Look at how many other players from that era? Heck, some played drunk.

Back then, a concussion and sitting out because of it was a sign of being a wuss. Beating on a woman? No problem, just play on Sunday.

Image, and money, has changed the sporting landscape in ways that could only be imagine even 20 years ago.

The same rules should apply to everyone. I realize you do not get that, but it's true. You should not allow others to drink like crazy and then tell one player he can't.

Finally someone talking sense..

There is no world in which the same rules apply to everyone.

Ain't that the truth. Maybe Pet should have a drink and tell a few whoppers.

He already told a few whoppers at the beginning of the year - we would be a tough, hard nosed defense and have a strong running game.

Bro if I offered you a few MILLION dollars a year if you didn't drink in public would you refrain from drinking in public each year that I handed you the cash?

And how much is guaranteed?

Absolutely! But I am not Johnny and I do not think it is the Daddy Pettine's place to put such restrictions on individual players. The only way I would be OK with it would be if it was a rule for the entire team, which would make it even more ridiculous than it already is.

Actually, that's not true. I'm sure every guy on the team drinks a few beers, but thus far, Only Manziel has shown an inability to handle his life.

The kid has a problem.

It's pretty clear, actually, painfully clear that you don't get that, but it's fact. He's got issues that at least in part, revolve around his use of booze and partying.

I did pretty much the same thing as Johnny when I was that age - probably some things a lot worse. Thank goodness there was no social media then, lol. I still was able to attend classes at school, get pretty good grades, and partied my ass off. From all accounts, Johnny has done very little partying this year - the one time he appears to have "partied" is on his vacation. Yep, what a problem. The animosity towards this kid floors me. It is almost as if there is an insane amount of jealousy about his "celebrity" status.

You are right, but I think his problem is being overblown. He took steps to fix it at the beginning of the year, and appears to have done so over the course of the past 11 months. I could be wrong of course, but so could you.

At his age, I did also. But you bring up a good point. Back when in the 50's through 90's when there was no social media, it had very little impact on the team and the perception of the organization. Today, things are different.

I'm 63 going on 64 in a few months, when I was 22 years old, no such thing like social media existed or I bet my dad would have beat me black and blue LOL Oh if the old man had seen some of the stuff I did.. Oh brother...LOL

And oh, by the way, I never once said that the problem is being overblown..

Sorry, missed an important word in there. Fixed it.

You are right, but I think his problem is being overblown