DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Smoking Ban

I wish PA would do this. I'd totally vote for a ban on smoking in all bars and restaurants! But then again, we still have the steelers and eagles fans and that's way worse!!!!!

Ok, this may sound dumb but is it really a gov't issue? I thought the PEOPLE of Ohio voted on it. If that's the case then how is the gov't telling people they can't smoke???? Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree and disagree with the smoking ban to different extents. I can completely understand the ban for restaurants and other public places where smoking isn't part of the big picture. People go to restaurants to eat. Families and little children, without a smoking ban, end up in the "non-smoking section" (which pretty much means smoke, but not as concentrated) and put their health at risk. To me, if you're at a restaurant, it's a reasonable request to have people go outside to smoke. I respect giving people "choices" but... how many restaurants are going to choose banning smoking when it means they'll lose business? How many smokers are going to choose to be courteous and walk outside when they want a smoke? Bottom line is, they're the exception rather than the rule. For restaurants and other public places that little ones and people in fragile health frequent, I agree with the ban.

Now... for bars, I can't understand it. People go to bars to relax, get comforable and have a good time. Part of that (for smokers) is to be able to light one up indoors without having to walk outside every time. Removing smoking from bars, IMO, is taking away the essential function of their business - to make bar hoppers as comfortable as possible. There's an expectation that bars will have smoke and, if one wants to avoid it, it's entirely reasonable to ask them to find a smoke-free bar or just avoid the scene altogether. Banning smoking is be like banning drinking - people come to bars for their vices, taking them away makes little sense.

All that said, I'm a non-smoker and I enjoy being able to go anywhere without breathing it in, but I don't think it's fair in places where the ability to smoke is a very reasonable expectation.

What's wrong with sitting and relaxing outside and having a smoke?

I think the real issue here is not so much whether a business' "right" to do business the way it would like it is being "violated," or "eroded," but rather that the bottom line is being affected,.... isn't that what's really ticking the bar owners off,...??

Does a bar owner really care about whether or not you can smoke in his bar, or his he REALLY more concerned with how much money you spend there,...??

Maybe you can tell me how voting away our rights is a good thing...

As was stated earlier in the thread, it is not as much about the smoking ban as it is about losing rights. A very slippery slope we are going down.

Definition: Whining

Whining is crying for 2 years after getting ass kicked in the democratic American voting process because a majority of people don't want to breathe smoke that shortens their lives. There was no mistake about what people were voting for.

I guess we'll see if you are singing the same tune when a privledge you value is banned. It's only a matter of time.

Like I said, it is not about smoking, it is about the freedom of choice.

The final result was 64-36%. Where is the 80% coming from. I do know that around 2 out of every 3 people I know are idiots, so this result doesn't surprise me.

Tough kibbles and bits dawg. The people voted and thats that!

Waaahhhh...

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and I feel that even though the government did not impose this law on us they have the ability to make it right and are not doing so.


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The governmen t cannot amend the State Constitution, neither can it ignore it, nor modify it by itself.

The was a Constitutional amendment, and it can only be changed by a vote of the people.

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I understand that completely, as that is 6th grade government class stuff....

It is ridiculous that issues such as this appear on the ballot in such a convoluted manner, one shouldn't have to read it over and over to see what the underlying parts are. THIS is how our govt, can fix the problem, by creating standards so that people can know what they are voting on.

You and Saint keep expounding on the "fact" that people did know what they were voting on, and I say that is a bunch of horse kaka. I have talked to dozens of people who have in turn talked to dozens of people at various posts, and this is a VERY common denominator across the state.

And if the issue was so clear, then why did it get bounced around for months (don't tell me the enforcement issue, I'm well aware of that) in court? I'm talking about the law itself.....it was a poorly written amendment when it went on the ballot, and it should be put up for repeal until which time they get it straight.

This will do nothing but cost the state more money, due to having to enforce a silly law. Tax revenues will be down, businesses may fail....

Way to go Ohio!

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Believe it or not, and I'm speaking from experience, the public will adjust to the new rules, and it will be business as usual, and in many cases, more business.

Smokers don't goto the bar to smoke, they go to sit, have conversation, and drink. Smoking is just a secondary thing, in a couple months they won't give it much thought to step out back every 15-20 mins and have a smoke,

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You're speaking from Florida experience.....this is Ohio. The weather patterns can be just a taaaaaaaaaaad different at times, ya know.

Let's do an update a year from now if this silly-assed law stays in effect. (unless we are all bankrupt from paying 4 bucks a gallon for gas and can't afford internet access next year) But that's another thread....

General response to those who wonder why it's a big deal to step outside....

I throw darts. When I want to step outside, I have to pack up my darts (NOT leaving them unattended), grab my purse, and risk losing my dartboard while I'm gone. This in not even close to acceptable for me. It's why I'm not going to the bar very often now. I happen to know a dozen dart & pool players that feel the same way. It's just a PITA to go out anymore.

Oh well....when the bar closes and I lose yet another place to throw I'll probably just give up the game. Darts isn't like pool...usually a pool table in every bar. Dart boards are few and far between around Dayton.

Copenhagen.

The smoking ban hasn't hurt our bar biz or the bar next door. We've been packed. I notice very few people going outside to smoke. Maybe 3-4 a night.

Chelle maybe try a little pinch between cheeck & gum

I remember dart league nights being a huge night at neighborhood bars. The problem is not the smoking but the chain bars have killed the mom & pop bars. The chain bars have Corn Hole Leagues. I guess its safer

I guess those are legitimate gripes. I don't have to deal with those things at the bars I go to since the bartenders and the regulars know what belongs to who and if someone should try to grab them and walk off someone will say something.

I haven't noticed any falling off of business at either place.. both places have fenced in beer / smoking patio's out back / up front. Both have cable tv hookups and a TV's so you don't miss one lil bit of the game. Matter of fact, I think business has never been better at each place. I'll go to the Owner and the managers and ask them if they have lost any bidness since the ban.

I've never worried one bit about my drink getting spiked LOL.. guess I'm not the sort people want to "take advantage of" LOL...Middle aged broken down guys don't have to worry bout that.

Best thing to do all around is to quit.. it's cheaper, you'll live longer, the people that love you and care about you will have you around longer AND you increase your chances of seeing a Cleveland Browns Super Bowl!

"...And if the issue was so clear, then why did it get bounced around for months (don't tell me the enforcement issue, I'm well aware of that) in court? I'm talking about the law itself.....it was a poorly written amendment when it went on the ballot, and it should be put up for repeal until which time they get it straight."

Shep... was the law written for only legaleze speakers? Or was it maybe written in English spoken by thoughful and well versed persons such as those who wrote the United States Constitution?

Often times some readers [all present company excluded of course] do not have the mental capacity or accuity to focus on more than one thought line at a time.

The issue wasn't all that damn difficult to understand.

The best enforcement mechanism was left to be determined by the agency doing the enforcing.

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/SOS/ElectionsVoter/results2006.aspx?Section=1874

State Issue 5: Text of Proposed Law


Be it Enacted by the People of the State of Ohio.

Section 1.

3794.01 Definitions.

As used in this chapter:

(A) “Smoking” means inhaling, exhaling, burning, or carrying any lighted cigar, cigarette, pipe, or other lighted smoking device for burning tobacco or any other plant. “Smoking” does not include the burning of incense in a religious ceremony.

(B) “Public place” means an enclosed area to which the public is invited or in which the public is permitted and that is not a private residence.

(C) “Place of employment” means an enclosed area under the direct or indirect control of an employer that the employer's employees use for work or any other purpose, including but not limited to, offices, meeting rooms, sales, production and storage areas, restrooms, stairways, hallways, warehouses, garages, and vehicles. An enclosed area as described herein is a place of employment without regard to the time of day or the presence of employees.

(D) “Employee” means a person who is employed by an employer, or who contracts with an employer or third person to perform services for an employer, or who otherwise performs services for an employer for compensation or for no compensation.

(E) “Employer” means the state or any individual, business, association, political subdivision, or other public or private entity, including a nonprofit entity, that employs or contracts for or accepts the provision of services from one or more employees.

(F) “Enclosed Area” means an area with a roof or other overhead covering of any kind and walls or side coverings of any kind, regardless of the presence of openings for ingress and egress, on all sides or on all sides but one.

(G) “Proprietor” means an employer, owner, manager, operator, liquor permit holder, or person in charge or control of a public place or place of employment.

(H) “Retail tobacco store” means a retail establishment that derives more than eighty percent of its gross revenue from the sale of cigars, cigarettes, pipes, or other smoking devices for burning tobacco and related smoking accessories and in which the sale of other products is merely incidental. “Retail tobacco store” does not include a tobacco department or section of a larger commercial establishment or of any establishment with a liquor permit or of any restaurant.

(I) “Outdoor patio” means an area that is either: enclosed by a roof or other overhead covering and walls or side coverings on not more than two sides; or has no roof or other overhead covering regardless of the number of walls or other side coverings.

3794.02 Smoking Prohibitions.

(A) No proprietor of a public place or place of employment, except as permitted in section 3794.03 of this chapter, shall permit smoking in the public place or place of employment or in the areas directly or indirectly under the control of the proprietor immediately adjacent to locations of ingress or egress to the public place or place of employment.

(B) A proprietor of a public place or place of employment shall ensure that tobacco smoke does not enter any area in which smoking is prohibited under this chapter through entrances, windows, ventilation systems, or other means.

(C) No person or employer shall discharge, refuse to hire, or in any manner retaliate against an individual for exercising any right, including reporting a violation, or performing any obligation under this chapter.

(D) No person shall refuse to immediately discontinue smoking in a public place, place of employment, or establishment, facility or outdoor area declared nonsmoking under section 3794.05 of this chapter when requested to do so by the proprietor or any employee of an employer of the public place, place of employment or establishment, facility or outdoor area.

(E) Lack of intent to violate a provision of this chapter shall not be a defense to a violation.

3794.03 Areas where smoking is not regulated by this chapter.

The following shall be exempt from the provisions of this chapter:

(A) Private residences, except during the hours of operation as a child care or adult care facility for compensation, during the hours of operation as a business by a person other than a person residing in the private residence, or during the hours of operation as a business, when employees of the business, who are not residents of the private residence or are not related to the owner, are present.

(B) Rooms for sleeping in hotels, motels and other lodging facilities designated as smoking rooms; provided, however, that not more than twenty percent of sleeping rooms may be so designated.

(C) Family-owned and operated places of employment in which all employees are related to the owner, but only if the enclosed areas of the place of employment are not open to the public, are in a free standing structure occupied solely by the place of employment, and smoke from the place of employment does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter.

(D) Any nursing home, as defined in section 3721.10(A) of the Revised Code, but only to the extent necessary to comply with section 3721.13(A)(18) of the Revised Code. If indoor smoking area is provided by a nursing home for residents of the nursing home, the designated indoor smoking area shall be separately enclosed and separately ventilated so that tobacco smoke does not enter, through entrances, windows, ventilation systems, or other means, any areas where smoking is otherwise prohibited under this chapter. Only residents of the nursing home may utilize the designated indoor smoking area for smoking. A nursing home may designate specific times when the indoor smoking area may be used for such purpose. No employee of a nursing shall be required to accompany a resident into a designated indoor smoking area or perform services in such area when being used for smoking.

(E) Retail tobacco stores as defined in section 3794.01(H) of this chapter in operation prior to the effective date of this section. The retail tobacco store shall annually file with the department of health by January thirty first an affidavit stating the percentage of its gross income during the prior calendar year that was derived from the sale of cigars, cigarettes, pipes, or other smoking devices for smoking tobacco and related smoking accessories. Any retail tobacco store that begins operation after the effective date of this section or any existing retail tobacco store that relocates to another location after the effective date of this section may only qualify for this exemption if located in a freestanding structure occupied solely by the business and smoke from the business does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter.

(F) Outdoor patios as defined in Section 3794.01(I) of this chapter. All outdoor patios shall be physically separated from an enclosed area. If windows or doors form any part of the partition between an enclosed area and the outdoor patio, the openings shall be closed to prevent the migration of smoke into the enclosed area. If windows or doors do not prevent the migration of smoke into the enclosed area, the outdoor patio shall be considered an extension of the enclosed area and subject to the prohibitions of this chapter.

(G) Private clubs as defined in section 4301.01(B)(13) of the Revised Code, provided all of the following apply: the club has no employees; the club is organized as a not for profit entity; only members of the club are present in the club's building; no persons under the age of eighteen are present in the club's building; the club is located in a freestanding structure occupied solely by the club; smoke from the club does not migrate into an enclosed area where smoking is prohibited under the provisions of this chapter; and, if the club serves alcohol, it holds a valid D4 liquor permit.

3794.04 Construction; other applicable laws.

Because medical studies have conclusively shown that exposure to secondhand smoke from tobacco causes illness and disease, including lung cancer, heart disease, and respiratory illness, smoking in the workplace is a statewide concern and, therefore, it is in the best interests of public health that smoking of tobacco products be prohibited in public places and places of employment and that there be a uniform statewide minimum standard to protect workers and the public from the health hazards associated with exposure to secondhand smoke from tobacco.

The provisions of this chapter shall be liberally construed so as to further its purposes of protecting public health and the health of employees and shall prevail over any less restrictive state or local laws or regulations. Nothing in this chapter shall be construed to permit smoking where it is otherwise restricted by other laws or regulations.

3794.05 Declaration of establishment as nonsmoking.

Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, the owner, manager, operator, or other person in charge or control of an establishment, facility, or outdoor area which does not otherwise qualify as a public place or place of employment may declare such establishment, facility, or outdoor area as a nonsmoking place. Smoking shall be prohibited in any place declared nonsmoking under this section where a sign conforming to the requirements of section 3794.06 is posted.

3794.06 Posting of signs; prohibition of ashtrays; responsibilities of proprietors.

In addition to the prohibitions contained in section 3794.02 of this chapter, the proprietor of a public place or place of employment shall comply with the following requirements:

(A) “No Smoking” signs or the international “No Smoking” symbol (consisting of a pictorial representation of a burning cigarette enclosed in a red circle with a red bar across it) shall be conspicuously posted in every public place and place of employment where smoking is prohibited by this chapter, including at each entrance to the public place or place of employment. Signs shall be of sufficient size to be clearly legible to a person of normal vision throughout the areas they are intended to mark. All signs shall contain a telephone number for reporting violations.

(B) All ashtrays and other receptacles used for disposing of smoking materials shall be removed from any area where smoking is prohibited by this chapter.

3794.07 Duties of the Department of Health.

This chapter shall be enforced by the department of health and its designees. The director of health shall within six months of the effective date of this section:

(A) Promulgate rules in accordance with Chapter 119 of the Revised Code to implement and enforce all provisions of this chapter;

(B) Promulgate rules in accordance with Chapter 119 of the Revised Code to prescribe a schedule of fines for violations of this chapter designed to foster compliance with the provisions of this chapter. The amount of a fine for a violation of 3794.02 (A) and (B) shall not be less than one hundred dollars and the maximum for a violation shall be twenty five hundred dollars. The amount of a fine for a violation of 3794.02 (D) shall be up to a maximum of one hundred dollars per violation. Each day of a violation shall constitute a separate violation. The schedule of fines that apply to a proprietor shall be progressive based on the number of prior violations by the proprietor. Violations which occurred more than two years prior to a subsequent violation shall not be considered if there has been no finding of a violation in the intervening time period. The fine schedule shall set forth specific factors that may be considered to decrease or waive the amount of a fine that otherwise would apply. Fines shall be doubled for intentional violations;

(C) Promulgate rules in accordance with Chapter 119 of the Revised Code to prescribe a procedure for providing a proprietor or individual written notice of a report of a violation and the opportunity to present in writing any statement or evidence to contest the report, and prescribing procedures for making findings whether a proprietor or individual violated a provision of this chapter and for imposing fines for violations;

(D) Establish a system for receiving reports of violations of the provisions of this chapter from any member of the public, including, but not limited to, by mail and one or more e-mail addresses and toll free telephone numbers exclusively for such purpose. A person shall not be required to disclose his or her identity in order to report a violation;

(E) Inform proprietors of public places and places of employment of the requirements of this chapter and how to comply with its provisions, including, but not limited to, by providing printed and other materials and a toll free telephone number and e-mail address exclusively for such purposes; and

(F) Design and implement a program to educate the public regarding the provisions of this chapter, including, but not limited to, through the establishment of an internet website and how a violation may be reported.

3794.08 Smoke Free Indoor Air Fund.

There is hereby created in the state treasury the smoke free indoor air fund. All fines collected pursuant to this chapter and any grant, contribution, or other moneys received by the department of health for the purposes of this chapter shall be credited to the smoke free indoor air fund and used solely for the purposes of this chapter.

3794.09 Enforcement; Penalties.

(A) Upon the receipt of a first report that a proprietor of a public place or place of employment or an individual has violated any provision of this chapter, the department of health or its designee shall investigate the report and, if it concludes that there was a violation, issue a warning letter to the proprietor or individual.

(B) Upon a report of a second or subsequent violation of any provision of this chapter by a proprietor of a public place or place of employment or an individual, the department of health or its designee shall investigate the report. If the director of health or director's designee concludes, based on all of the information before him or her, that there was a violation, he or she shall impose a civil fine upon the proprietor or individual in accordance with the schedule of fines required to be promulgated under section 3794.07 of this chapter.

(C) Any proprietor or individual against whom a finding of a violation is made under this chapter may appeal the finding to the Franklin County Court of Common Pleas. Such appeal shall be governed by the provisions of section 119.12 of the Revised Code.

(D) The director of health may institute an action in the court of common pleas seeking an order in equity against a proprietor or individual that has repeatedly violated the provisions of this chapter or fails to comply with its provisions.

Section 2. Severability.

If any provision of this chapter or the application thereof to any person or circumstances shall be held invalid by a court, that invalidity shall not affect the other provisions of this chapter that can be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and to this end the provisions of this chapter are declared to be severable.

Thanks for posting the entire amendment that I've already read a gazillion times.....

Check out the section on private clubs. Our American Legion post is a "private" club, with exclusive membership criteria. We do have employees, but these same employees are also members. So how would you construe this amendment to affect us if you were standing at the poll trying to decide which way to go? I as well as several others took it to mean that we would be exempt from the law......and the very fact that it has been through the courts with them trying to determine the applicability CLEARLY SHOWS that it was a raw deal.

People DID NOT know what they were voting on....I would wager that if it were on the ballot again with people knowing what they know now, it would FAIL MISERABLY.

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Shep... was the law written for only legaleze speakers? Or was it maybe written in English spoken by thoughful and well versed persons such as those who wrote the United States Constitution?

Often times some readers [all present company excluded of course] do not have the mental capacity or accuity to focus on more than one thought line at a time.

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I understand that amendments such as this one have to be written in legalese to be able to be enacted/enforced/efficient.

However, we see it time and time again during election time the special interest groups have these things written so they are intentionally misleading, and we have to endure the commercials from each side pro and con telling us what the real issue is all about. Many people don't know who/what to believe....and it isn't always a matter of just reading it thoroughly beforehand.

I can honestly say that I know for a fact that there are several people who HAD NO IDEA what they were voting for.....now extrapolate that across the state.