DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum All the Cards are on the Table... Your Move Jimmy

I did not read the whole thread, but I do have a question for those who say that if we cannot get Saban, then we should stay with Pettine: Ho does that work with regards to the minority interviewing requirements?

If we talk to Saban, we cannot offer him the job without 1st interviewing minority candidates. If we start interviewing minority candidates, we have to fire Pettine. There is no way we start interviewing multiple candidates for his job, without 1st letting him go.

So, the question becomes: If Pettine the coach for this team? If he is, or might be, then stay with him. If not, and if the team is interested in Saban, then they have to be really careful that we aren't seen as trying to circumvent the minority rules, and thus cost the team a draft pick. (potentially) Further, if we want to hire a guy like Saban, who might be a "2 in 1" type, then we have to do the same with Farmer, and candidates for his position.

I remember when a team could go after a guy like Jimmy Johnson or Bill Parcells, and do so because they were really well established, successful coaches,and not have to do the whole dog and pony show with interviewing candidates, minority or other, that they were never going to hire. I think that it is disrespectful to a minority candidate to have them go into an interview when they stand zero chance of getting the job. It has been said that they, at least, get the experience of interviewing .... but I would never go interview for a job I had zero chance at, experience or not.

Anyway, if Haslam decides that he wants to pursue Saban, he better be really careful about how he makes his interest known.

Both appear accurate (jury still out on Manziel but he looks accurate so far.) Both have good arm strength and yes, both short. Didn't know Brees was from Texas.

Hey, has a Saban coached team ever played against a Manziel QB'ed team in college? I don't even know where to look for that info.

Over the years it has pretty much been established that most of this type of business happens behind the scenes through Agents. I believe that is the way it is. Everything else is just fluff, dancing through the media hoops.

Our problem, just as we learned with Jimmy's biggest failure (his inability to close the Jim Harbaugh deal), isn't hooking the big fish, but getting his wife to agree to move the family to Cleveland. And, that would be the case with Saban, Gruden, or whoever else may come into play. Jimmy has to sell this job and this town, then close it.

Our best shot may rest with the fact that Saban and Gruden left their last jobs in the NFL as failures to some degree.

Getting the Cleveland Brown's into multiple playoff appearances would re-establish and cement their legacies.

Its still a long shot.

I absolutely agree. Which is why I asked if a Saban coached team ever played against Manziel.

Now I know. Now it depends on what Saban thinks of Manziel.

Having the first pick in the draft would be a plus too, if you were getting total control.

I kinda want nothing at all to do with Saban, so I'm guessing I should hope for Manziel to fail while we win out the rest of the way??

Ugh, this being a fan thing is COMPLICATED.

Any other year, I'd agree, but damn, this year, there is no Andrew Luck or Payton Manning in this draft. If Manziel works out terrific, then you get a QB and you get the 1st pick and if you do that right, your teams fortunes can change in a hurry.

The internet.

I really think there's a good reason Jules calls him "Captain Obvious".

I get what you're saying, but I think you're directing it to someone it really doesn't apply to as much as it would to many others. Yet it poses a conundrum. If you look at the "QB's to watch" thread, you'll see I'm not one who's out there applauding the idea of pimping we draft a QB in round one. So let me break things down and hopefully you'll give this some thought and a response.

Now firstly, I support every player who wears a Browns uniform and JFF is no exception. I feel he holds a lot of skills and has a great deal of talent. I have openly expressed that what's best for the Browns is for Johnny to be able to display that skill so that we have no need to draft a QB and that we finally have the answer we have all desired at the QB position. So JFF has my support.

I guess when it comes to the benching of JFF by Pettine, no matter which side you take, some will say you aren't supporting someone. So is it the HC or the QB I'm supposed to support? It seems no matter how you slice it, it could be seen as me not supporting the Browns, huh?

But let me ask you, do you feel that Farmer has given him the weapons to succeed? The talent he needs at the WR position to help tip the odds in favor of JFF? Do you believe the talent that Farmer has brought in has really helped the overall talent on this team?

There is also a looming question that I don't have the answer to. Do you believe that this coaching staff and FO have the trust in JFF to be our QB of the future? So as much as you advocate that I support the team, there are times you just can't have it both ways. Sometimes you have to make a choice when there is a divide.

As of right now, I feel that Farmer hurts this team far more than he helps it. I don't believe he's given JFF a supporting cast that helps him. I don't believe he is a good evaluator of talent. So it's my opinion that my stance on Farmer is supporting the better good of the Browns.

Pettine? I'm not seeing the growth in him I would have liked to have seen. Clock management, discipline in the form of penalties, basic tackling techniques and just football 101 type things worry me. I'm at the point that I could see myself supporting the notion of keeping him or firing him. A case could be made in both directions.

So do I support JFF with the understanding he's been given almost nothing in the way of a supporting cast? Or do I support him by suggesting we get someone capable and willing to do that job?

I'm at the point that I actually feel supporting Farmer is not supporting my team. But everyone has to make their own choice about that.

Some of those teams have better current QB situations than others.. but some of them are going to have draft picks that would allow Nick to draft his own QB... that might also be very appealing to him.

Dear Gawd that is ridiculously funny ...

That wasn't directed for just you Pitt. And I agree Farmer can not do another draft. Now if Ray didn't give Johnny any weapons to succeed could it also be said he also did the same to Pet.

Now the clock management and everything else is all on him. Can he improve. I don't know. That is up to him. Just tired of all the bashing from our own fans. I get enough of the from steeler and Bengal fans.

Very good post Pit, I find humor in all of this. To keep some sanity of course..

Before the start of almost every season, we talk of the biggest need... QB

The talk is of how there will be such a great class of QB's coming out the next draft class..

Then the talk turns to, we need to see what we have in the back up we have now. If he wins out we may have our guy. And by the way, this draft class of QB's suck, we need a WR or LB.

How does it go from a great / good class, to none of them can be an NFL starter right off..smh lol

Now the question is, Give Pet another year or not.. Farmer ? But who and really who can you replace them with ?

It seems Saban is now the Savior, But he bowed out in Miami because he didn't get Bree's at QB. He ran from a challenge if you ask me.

So now Haslam should pay the best buck to lure him in and give him all the control he wants... Okay, I admit... I don't get that way of thinking at all.

Another unproven NFL level coach, who has shown nothing at this level at all.. Except for putting his tail between his legs and running back to the collage level.

Many times on this board we discussed the hiring and firing of the Collage level coach, the fired from another team coach, the coordinator coach the I'm not sure but he's the one coach.

The one thing we don't discuss much is the coach who's been given the chance to get it right, even though he sucks his first 2-4 years and we don't like him coach.

I'm not big on Pet, I was at first.. But most of you know my biggest take on game day is his demeanor on the field and his lack of interacting with players and coaches.

That doesn't mean because I feel he needs more hands on during the game, that he isn't doing a good job with the team. What I see is a 3-10 record, and honestly, beating the 49ers is like beating my meat before I put it on the grill.

Want to know what's funny ? I honestly think if we can go into next season with Pet, JM and Bosa lol.. Josh Gordon.. For the silliest damn reason.. I see Johnny and Josh lighting up the league.

Yes I feel we have two guys we have been waiting for and They could actually be dang good together.. Yes they were young and dumb,, so was I... I see them growing up together and making a name for themselves. We may actually be closer than what we think, if we can just let bygones be bygones.

I don't know the answer, I know I don't want to give up. I know some of my thinking is far from others, I just feel we need to hold onto this for one more season and I don't even like that thought myself.

One-liner from Saints' Drew Brees sums up his work ethic perfectly

New Orleans Saints quarterbacl Drew Brees puts in the work every single year, and it shows on the field consistently. Even with that said, fans really never know how much work many NFL players actually put in. Thanks to a story from Robert Klemko of The MMQB, we get a glimpse of what Brees' work ethic is like.

The story was about Jay Glazer's training of NFL players through MMA workouts. It includes some great content, but specifically has one section that stands out about Brees. Klemko writes:

“One weeknight several years ago, Glazer was out at midnight with a Saints coach who suddenly realized he’d left something at the office. Glazer accompanied the coach back to (the Saints facility on) Airline Drive in Metairie, where there was but one light on in the facility. It was Drew Brees, watching film in the tight ends room."

Glazer asked Brees what he was doing, which led to the one-liner that describes his work ethic.

"Said Brees: ‘Sometimes trying to be great is lonely.’”

It's basically what you'd expect to hear from a guy like Brees, but it's always cool to hear it. Things like this are what make you believe that Brees has multiple years left playing at a high level.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/one-liner-from-drew-brees-sums-up-his-work-ethic-perfectly-072715

yea....yea... just like the cocaine cowboy...pfft

This is a question I've seen often but it's actually flawed logic as this is simply not, nor ever will be how the process is carried out.

First an owner must have made the decision that the status quo simply will not work. If that determination has been made, then the owner must move forward without that question having as yet been answered. I mean if he's determined it's broken beyond repair, an attempt must be made to fix it.

You never see owners doing interviews or determining that answer with a current regime still in place. That's simply a no no. I'm sure that there may be a feeling out process in who may be interested in interviewing for positions before firings occur, but that is about as far as it goes.



I'm not saying Saban is the answer. But I do believe he felt that he earned the right to make a determination on his QB. I feel he was right about Brees as we have all seen. So I do believe if he felt he would have no say in talent on the field, I understand why he felt the working relationship there would not lead to success.



The thing that really concerns me about Pettine are the lack of basic football fundamentals I see on the field. Basic things you expect to see basic improvements in. Tackling, play clock management, discipline in the form of penalties. Things you learn and are taught early in Jr. High and High School. These aren't related to schemes or anything complicated.



I don't believe it's simply a matter of "letting bygones be bygones". From a fans perspective it's harder to see, but I believe the looming question from a FO and owners perspective is this... "Given the history of these two players, can we trust and depend on them being the face of our franchise moving forward?... JFF was in rehab about seven months ago and JG has shown an inability to remain eligible to remain on the field. So when you own a corporation worth one and a half billion dollars, that's a big question to consider.



That's why I said that I saw a case for keeping Pettine and a case for firing Pettine. Both seem to be plausible scenarios to me.

I'd have to see a lot more of JFF to determine whether he can be a franchise type QB. The raw tools are there and he has improved a lot. There are still as many questions as there are answers. But that's the position we as fans are left with. A hand full of games won't answer that question.

So this owner and FO will face a lot of challenges. They will have to make some tough choices. I don't have a lot of answers, but the off season will be most interesting if nothing else.

I know this has been hashed out for several weeks now, but I love this answer...Pet and Farmer... Did Pet ever have the chance to succeed ?

I'm wondering just how much Pet was brought in to fail... You would never want that from an Organization, but sometimes I wonder.

I'm sorry, I shouldn't be directing this all at you, I could of should of done J/C..

I do appreciate the good input ..

Wasn't Pet hired because no one else wanted the job?

If so who are you going to get after firing him in 2 years?

Pettine was hired because Banner and Lombardi botched the hiring process.

pettine was hired because haslem fired chud lol

LMAO !! that's the truth..

Yes and who the heck knows.. Kind of tired of the no patience no better back up plan.. very frustrating Vambo..

ugh wasn't that just a slap in the face ? Thinking about it, even if the coach they wanted came in, Would the talent on the field be any different ?

Either way, Farmer was still the GM

Calamity of errors.

Other than just flat out not wanting a change, name one reason Pettine should keep his job. Continuity means you stay bad if you have a bad coach to begin with. So what exactly is Pettine SO good at? I could easily point out more reasons to keep Farmer, and I haven't liked Farmer from day one... ask anyone I see VERY little coaching ability from this staff. Why saddle a new GM with Pettine and company? Here's a lousy coach, do something with him... yeah right.

Hence the need for a full house cleaning. Top to bottom. Get the stench of this season out of the building.

Banner and Lombardi made the hire. For some reason they wanted a Coach they could keep under thumb. Haslam needs to figure out that money is his friend in this situation. He is swimming in it and there is no salary cap on staff. BUY what you need. Make your choice an offer he can't refuse. Just for an example, offer Cowher 15 million a year 5 year deal. If he says no offer 17.5 per. Etc. Keep raising the deal until he says yes. Just using him as an example. Pick your man and go GET him.

There are a lot of lies being posted as if they are facts on this thread.

It kills conversation. Well, at least intelligent conversation.

Stop telling them then!

Oh look, it's Mr. Snarky pants...

I would not be opposed to giving Saban control of the draft and free agency. I suspect most good, established coaches have more control over the draft than might be known. Right now, we have a GM that apparently picks players (free agency and draft) despite what the coach wants or needs and says, "Here you go." The coach doesn't like them, doesn't play them and it does not work.
If you think you have a good coach who knows what he is doing, you ought to let him have a major say in who you put on his roster. Where I think you can have trouble is when a coach, like Chip Kelly, wants to control EVERYTHING, including what kind of mustard they sell at the concession stands.

j/c

Ah, the spirit of Christmas! Oooops, where did it go?

Bah Humbug

It's in that other forum, keep searching you'll find it..

Great point Dave, It would seem all that traveling would get old.. And staying mostly in one place evaluating players would seem more of better gig for him.

Actually I believe that is a question worth asking from strictly a talent standpoint. I don't believe many of the moves Farmer has made have been upgrades and I'm not sure how much input Pettine has had in these moves.

That's why you'll see my critique of Pettine is limited to things such as clock management, discipline on the field and tackling.

Many people place progress strictly in the W and L column. But I was simply looking for progress in basic areas the Pettine has control over. And I simply haven't seen it.