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He's trying to "clean up" by punishing 70 innocent players for the act of a few. What a shining example of leadership. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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j/c
Holy cow, some people are making WAY too much of a big deal about this.
First, whatever the law decides, Paterno is going with that - he's not going to bat for the kids involved. Whatever penalty the courts give is fine with him.
Secondly, win as a team, lose as a team. You do things together as a team, and it does build unity.
Thirdly, there will be some 95 to 100 players cleaning up, when you take the scholarship athletes and the walkons. Face it folks, they use blowers to blow everything down the stadium, onto the areas surrounding the field. Then it gets picked up. With that many people doing it, I'd say 2 hours tops. 2 hours basically every other Sunday, for 12-13 weeks........big deal.
Fourthly, apparently many of you never went to college? Or maybe many of you never played sports in college? Or in highschool, for that matter...........doesn't matter what they are doing, if they "have" to show up, they will have fun doing whatever it is they are doing. Pretty simple, really.
And pit, you made a comment to the effect of "Paterno recruited them, it's his problem".....When a player gets in trouble off the field, society wants to blame the coach, but here you are getting in a hissy fit over the coach doing something about it.
I don't see how this can hurt Penn St. in recruiting - I see it only helping (use the "undecided" player thing - if he's undecided, I see mom and dad stepping in and saying "look, son, you're not going to the nfl, but you are getting your college for free. We'd like you to go learn about life from a guy like Paterno"
Geez, 2 hours, every other week (on average) for 13 weeks? And having fun while doing it?
I applaud Paterno, and I hate Penn St.
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And pit, you made a comment to the effect of "Paterno recruited them, it's his problem".....When a player gets in trouble off the field, society wants to blame the coach, but here you are getting in a hissy fit over the coach doing something about it.
Nah. Just get the guys "who did it". That's what "needs to be done about it". Not punishing 70 people that had nothing to do with it.
Big difference......................
I thought "personal responsibilty" was something a coach was supposed to teach. Not,"you're in trouble even if you DON'T do anything wrong" isn't quite what I consider a "life lesson".
Maybe you do. But I hear you post a lot about "personal responsibility". I guess you've had a change of heart? Because that's the FURTHEST thing from what's happening here.............
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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If you call punishing 70 people that had NOTHING to do with this "something" I suppose he did. I really don't care what he "does" as long as the guilty pay for the infractions and the innocent do not.
Like most people on this board, I've played on a lot of team sports in my life and I can tell you that if I was on the team, and was not one involved in the incident, I would hate cleaning up on Sunday mornings... I'd hate it. But I'd do it. And you can bet your butt the next time me and my buddies were at a party and one of my buddies was getting in somebodys face, I'd be the first one in front of him telling him to calm the heck down... and I believe that is the reaction JoePa is hoping for... and I believe that is the reaction he will get. Sorry Pit, I don't see a mass exodus of players and I don't see any successful court challenges over this... I expect after the first week you'll see some clips of them cleaning up on sportscenter and after that it will be forgotten.
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Like I said earlier,it's really important the the NCAA step up to the plate. In the grand scheme of things,"they're the govorning body",not Joepa. No matter how you slice it.
Hey we disagree... imagine that.  The NCAA governs competition, this has nothing to do with competition. This isn't about payments to athletes or performance enhancing drugs or cheating on tests to maintain a GPA which allows you to play... this is about a fight at a party. This should be handled within PSU unless it becomes a chornic problem.. which as of now, it's not.
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It's only a reminder to future possible recruits that Penn State permited this to happen.
Sorry, I wouldn't see it that way. I would compare it to how other universities have swept things like this (and worse) under the rug and it would bode favorably for PSU in my mind if I was helping my child decide where to play football....
yebat' Putin
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And pit, you made a comment to the effect of "Paterno recruited them, it's his problem".....When a player gets in trouble off the field, society wants to blame the coach, but here you are getting in a hissy fit over the coach doing something about it.
Nah. Just get the guys "who did it". That's what "needs to be done about it". Not punishing 70 people that had nothing to do with it.
Big difference......................
I thought "personal responsibilty" was something a coach was supposed to teach. Not,"you're in trouble even if you DON'T do anything wrong" isn't quite what I consider a "life lesson".
Maybe you do. But I hear you post a lot about "personal responsibility". I guess you've had a change of heart? Because that's the FURTHEST thing from what's happening here.............
No, the "thing" here is "big deal". As I stated, I doubt it will take over 2 hours, and I guarantee the guys doing it will have fun - the guys that caused it, and the guys that got caught up in it.
Plus, I'll lay $20 on the line with you that Paterno himself helps out.
Pit, it's not a big deal!!!!!
For those saying "they should be studying on sunday", ever hear of "travel time"? For the away games, these guys have tutors that travel with them, and Sunday isn't spent "studying". For the home AND away games, Sunday is "bruise" time - going to the trainers, lifting weights, running, etc.......... They aren't spending Sundays studying - maybe an hour or 2 in the evening - witht the tutors helping them out.
Big damn deal, you spend 2 hours 5 or 6 days a year cleaning up the stadium because 6 or 15, or however many, of your teammates screwed up. It teaches a life lesson, which will benefit these kids in ways they can't (and maybe you can't) appreciate at this time.
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. And you can bet your butt the next time me and my buddies were at a party and one of my buddies was getting in somebodys face, I'd be the first one in front of him telling him to calm the heck down... and I believe that is the reaction JoePa is hoping for... and I believe that is the reaction he will get.
That's fine and dandy IF you were there. That's the entire problem. About 70 of them WEREN'T THERE!
Say what you will,but they weren't even at the SCENE of the crime,much less have any ability to stop it. That's the point. This was completly out of about 70 of their players control because they weren't even there. Kind of hard to stop if you're not there isn't it?
I'd LOVE to see how many coaches have "punished" kids who weren't even THERE when another team member does something wrong. Probably just the really old,senile one's.
There is no excuse for that............................
So you believe that punishing people who were never even there,had nothing to do with it and were NOT violating ANY rules is perfectly acceptible? Sets a great "example" for our youth doesn't it?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It teaches a life lesson, which will benefit these kids in ways they can't (and maybe you can't) appreciate at this time.
What "life lesson" would that be Arch? You're guilty even when you're innocent? Your coach can convict you and punish you for "obeying the rules and doing NOTHING wrong"? Oh yeah,those are great "life lessons" all-right.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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. And you can bet your butt the next time me and my buddies were at a party and one of my buddies was getting in somebodys face, I'd be the first one in front of him telling him to calm the heck down... and I believe that is the reaction JoePa is hoping for... and I believe that is the reaction he will get.
That's fine and dandy IF you were there. That's the entire problem. About 70 of them WEREN'T THERE!
Say what you will,but they weren't even at the SCENE of the crime,much less have any ability to stop it. That's the point. This was completly out of about 70 of their players control because they weren't even there. Kind of hard to stop if you're not there isn't it?
I'd LOVE to see how many coaches have "punished" kids who weren't even THERE when another team member does something wrong. Probably just the really old,senile one's.
There is no excuse for that............................
So you believe that punishing people who were never even there,had nothing to do with it and were NOT violating ANY rules is perfectly acceptible? Sets a great "example" for our youth doesn't it?
Yes pit, it does set a great example.....for the 6 or however many that were doing wrong. It sets the example that you are responsible for your own actions, and more importantly, it sets the example that your own actions reflect/affect other people, not just you.
See, pit, it's kinda like life. your personal choices reflect on you, but they affect others.
I think it sets a great example, and I wish more people would follow that logic.
But, we live in the U.S., right? None of our actions and decisions should matter to anyone else, right?
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So you believe we should all be punished for "the acts of others"? We should be "responsible" for the actions of others? It is "our duty" to pay for the transgretions of others? That's not what you say 99.9% of the time.  You're advocating that six guys getting in a fight equal 80 getting punished? All it teaches those that WEREN'T guilty is they get the shaft for FOLLOWING the rules. Great concept. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So you believe we should all be punished for "the acts of others"? We should be "responsible" for the actions of others? It is "our duty" to pay for the transgretions of others? That's not what you say 99.9% of the time.
You're advocating that six guys getting in a fight equal 80 getting punished? All it teaches those that WEREN'T guilty is they get the shaft for FOLLOWING the rules. Great concept.
Nice twist, pit. Nice. If you don't understand what I'm saying, that's fine, just say so. No need to twist what I DID say into something it's not.
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as a pennstate fan i like the idea but it might hurt the team in recruiting, but think about it all the players legs are gonna be stronger after all that climbing every Sunday lol thats a BIG stadium
oioioioi
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So you believe we should all be punished for "the acts of others"? We should be "responsible" for the actions of others? It is "our duty" to pay for the transgretions of others? That's not what you say 99.9% of the time.
You're advocating that six guys getting in a fight equal 80 getting punished? All it teaches those that WEREN'T guilty is they get the shaft for FOLLOWING the rules. Great concept.
Nice twist, pit. Nice. If you don't understand what I'm saying, that's fine, just say so. No need to twist what I DID say into something it's not.
Are you saying it's fine and proper to punish 70 innocent kids that werren't even there or not? Either you are and advocate the actions I described,or you don't. It's really pretty cut and dry.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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So you believe we should all be punished for "the acts of others"? We should be "responsible" for the actions of others? It is "our duty" to pay for the transgretions of others? That's not what you say 99.9% of the time.
You're advocating that six guys getting in a fight equal 80 getting punished? All it teaches those that WEREN'T guilty is they get the shaft for FOLLOWING the rules. Great concept.
Nice twist, pit. Nice. If you don't understand what I'm saying, that's fine, just say so. No need to twist what I DID say into something it's not.
Are you saying it's fine and proper to punish 70 innocent kids that werren't even there or not? Either you are and advocate the actions I described,or you don't. It's really pretty cut and dry.
Okay, we'll do it your way, regardless of what I was trying to get across. (note to self: some people insist on arguing, no matter what: remember that)
YES, it is perfectly acceptable to me, in this situation, and in many others, to punish those that didn't commit the crime.
Look at life, pit, look at it. The more money you make, the more you pay in taxes. While some of that money goes to good things (roads, bridges, military etc) much of it goes to those that sit on their ass. Is that right? No, it's punishing the people that work in order to benefit the people that don't. (see, pit, that's called teamwork).
I spend upwords of $1500 per year keeping my lawn "nice". My neighbor is right now blowing what's left of his dandelion crop onto my yard (what's left after the wind blew everything else over). Is that fair? No, it's life.
I pay higher car insurance, because others speed. Is that fair? No, it's life.
There are many, many more examples, and you know it.
Bottom line is, Paterno is attempting to punish the do-badders by making them work, he is attempting to make them feel worse about it by including teammates in the punishment, he is trying to avert a similar situation in doing so, and he is instilling the "team" concept into each individual - you know - the team concept - that thing that goes kinda like "we are a team, on the field, and off. What you do affects the rest of us, and what we do affects you", or something like that.
Twist that anyway you like pit. I applaud Joe for doing this, and yes, I agree with punishing the rest of the players for the "crimes" of the few.
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Sad,really. Quite sad.................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Penn State Sports Why this? Why now? There have been numerous times throughout his career when Joe Paterno has dabbled in politics. He seconded George Bush's presidential nomination. He's been tight with several governors of this state. At one point, he was considered a possible gubernatorial candidate himself. He would have been great at it. The man is a master politician. And you need look no further than his plan of punishment for those members of his football team who were involved, either directly, peripherally, or not at all, in the fight in a downtown apartment recently. It's a stroke of political genius. Speaking at an alumni function in Valley Forge Monday night the Penn State coach announced that his entire team would be required to clean out Beaver Stadium after every game and donate the money to the University's club sports, who normally do the work to support their teams. Moreover, he said players would work with the Special Olympics and also help build a home in conjunction with the Habitat for Humanity. On the surface, that's all good. It's an unassailable position, right up there with motherhood. But if you peel back the warm and fuzzy blanket, it's as much a preemptive strike at the University's Office of Judicial Affairs as it is corporal punishment for the players. Consider the timing of the announcement. It comes before the Judicial Affairs folks begin their hearings into the incident. And it comes at a gathering near Philadelphia where it was guaranteed to get the largest media exposure, which it did. Tuesday's Philadelphia Inquirer, the largest paper in this state and one of the largest in the country, played it prominently on the front page of the sports section. No candidate running for political office could have done it better. But as with any politician, you have to take what they say and when they say it, at face value and believe it at your own peril. Paterno is absolutely right when he said that the players involved did something that embarrassed him, the team and the school. And he's right when he says that he wants to do something that will "...prove to people that we're not a bunch of hoodlums...." Not all, or even most of them are, but, if the helmet fits.... In the pecking order of justice, the legal system is first, then Judicial Affairs and finally, Paterno's court. So he IS trying to "override" the university! It appears the university has people ABOVE Joepa that are supposed to handle this. They will take care of Joepa.  His move to punish is a classic where, if one member of a group misbehaves the whole group is punished. Most of us have been there either as a member of a team or a class or a scout troop. It is also a calculated move to undercut the Judicial Affairs office by taking matters into his own hands and meting out his own punishment. That will make anything Judicial Affairs decides to do look like overkill and further advance the perception that Judicial Affairs has some vendetta against the football team. What Paterno does with his team is his business and if he decides to have them scrub out the urinals in the stadium with tooth brushes, that's up to him. It's the team's business.
But this appears to be designed to subvert Judicial Affairs and prevent them from performing the function they're charged with* in an effort to save his football team and the season. If that's the case, then it's not nearly as noble as it appears on the surface.* In all probability, this is the first salvo fired in what is going to be an all-out, behind-the-scenes war between the Lasch Building and Old Main over what constitutes fair punishment for the deeds committed. And justice may very well be the first casualty. Isn't that always the case when politicians fight? Ron Bracken is sports editor at the Centre Daily Times http://www.centredaily.com/sports/colleges/penn_state/story/104434.html
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Paterno lays down the hammer...and
broom at Penn St.
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