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Banner was the football guy in charge when we hired Pettine. After the hire he was let go. Jimmy wants to be the guy, he needs to be the guy. He needs to find the people he truly believes in. His guy was chip Kelly from everything I have heard on the subject, we wined and dined him, thught we had a deal worked out and then he was a no show.
He is a smart business man. He just really needs to find his people.
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Banner was the football guy in charge when we hired Pettine. After the hire he was let go. Jimmy wants to be the guy, he needs to be the guy. He needs to find the people he truly believes in. His guy was chip Kelly from everything I have heard on the subject, we wined and dined him, thught we had a deal worked out and then he was a no show.
He is a smart business man. He just really needs to find his people. I've never considered Banner to be a "Football" guy. An NFL Business guy, you bet, but a football guy, no, not really. Isn't it funny, I am kinda glad we didn't get Chip Kelly.
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Banner was the football guy in charge when we hired Pettine. After the hire he was let go. Jimmy wants to be the guy, he needs to be the guy. He needs to find the people he truly believes in. His guy was chip Kelly from everything I have heard on the subject, we wined and dined him, thught we had a deal worked out and then he was a no show.
He is a smart business man. He just really needs to find his people. You mentioned Chip Kelly. If Philly lets him go, does Jimmy try again (solely as coach)? Kelly and Manziel could be interesting in many ways.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
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Joe Banner was the only person who thought Joe Banner was a 'football' guy.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Banner was the football guy in charge when we hired Pettine. After the hire he was let go. Jimmy wants to be the guy, he needs to be the guy. He needs to find the people he truly believes in. His guy was chip Kelly from everything I have heard on the subject, we wined and dined him, thught we had a deal worked out and then he was a no show.
He is a smart business man. He just really needs to find his people. You mentioned Chip Kelly. If Philly lets him go, does Jimmy try again (solely as coach)? Kelly and Manziel could be interesting in many ways. The man can coach but he's rather a Knee Jerk type so I wouldn't let him near the draft or trades.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Chip stood them up and I dont think that went over very well with Haslam. We dont know what went on behind the scenes but it was a total dis by Kelly and an embarrassment for the Browns. This was the guy we dumped Chud for that Banner and Lombardi promised they would deliver.
I was hearing 2 months ago we were looking hard at college level coaches (Saban being the holy Grail) From the coach at A&M to Boise to former Bills HC Schiano. If we make a move however Sban is the prime target and he does have a relationship with Haslam.
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Chip kindof stood them up. IIRC Banner or Lombardi, perhaps both, willfully antagonized Chip during the interview process. But that was certainly an embarrassment, but I think he ruled us out completely before the Eagles job.
Saban would be the best bet. The only way to get him would be to give him football operations though. I support it, but it's risky. I think if he loses to MSU he might bolt for the NFL. His on field demeanor this year has been different than years past. A&M wants to fire Sumlin and Schiano coached the Bucs fwiw. I would like to stay away from either of them.
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I think our best bet to find a gem is to hire a young college guy before one of the big colleges snap him up. I don't see any of the top level coordinators (Gase, McDaniels, McDermott, etc.) wanting to come here. If Saban wants to leave, he will have much better options other places.
Guys like Tom Herman, Pat Fitzgerald, Jeff Brohm, Matt Wells, Pat Narduzzi, Kyle Whittingham and/or Ken Niumatalolo all will be coaching for big schools at some point. Why not at least bring them in for an interview to see if they can be the guy?
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I think you're thinking of the interview with whisenhunt, but it's not a stretch at all to assume he was doing the same thing in the other interviews.
I'm glad we didn't get Kelly. He's making Mangini look like Romeo Crennel.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
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I think our best bet to find a gem is to hire a young college guy before one of the big colleges snap him up. I don't see any of the top level coordinators (Gase, McDaniels, McDermott, etc.) wanting to come here. If Saban wants to leave, he will have much better options other places.
Guys like Tom Herman, Pat Fitzgerald, Jeff Brohm, Matt Wells, Pat Narduzzi, Kyle Whittingham and/or Ken Niumatalolo all will be coaching for big schools at some point. Why not at least bring them in for an interview to see if they can be the guy? If expectations turning this organization around is two years, assuming Haslam blows it up, why go through the trouble hiring another rookie HC and/or GM? Browns alone proved success rate hiring rookies is minimal at best. Biggest thing stacking the deck against the Browns now is lack of experience. If Haslam isn't willing to be patient, he has no business hiring rookies. Get experience or don't bother.
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Chip stood them up and I dont think that went over very well with Haslam. We dont know what went on behind the scenes but it was a total dis by Kelly and an embarrassment for the Browns. This was the guy we dumped Chud for that Banner and Lombardi promised they would deliver.
I was hearing 2 months ago we were looking hard at college level coaches (Saban being the holy Grail) From the coach at A&M to Boise to former Bills HC Schiano. If we make a move however Sban is the prime target and he does have a relationship with Haslam. Not a betting man, but two points I'd like to make: 1. None of us know what went on so stating anything as fact is probably just the thinking of those posting it. 2. Since we're on the subject of guessing, I would think that part of the problem with Chip coming here was he didn't want to work for Banner or Lombardi. As you can see, what got him to move to the NFL was full control. To me, that makes much more sense. Now, after he showed what he could do with full control, I doubt he gets that in the NFL anytime soon. My bet, if he gets fired or quits in Philly, he goes back to college.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think our best bet to find a gem is to hire a young college guy before one of the big colleges snap him up. I don't see any of the top level coordinators (Gase, McDaniels, McDermott, etc.) wanting to come here. If Saban wants to leave, he will have much better options other places.
Guys like Tom Herman, Pat Fitzgerald, Jeff Brohm, Matt Wells, Pat Narduzzi, Kyle Whittingham and/or Ken Niumatalolo all will be coaching for big schools at some point. Why not at least bring them in for an interview to see if they can be the guy? I think a Football Operation title and a lot of money could lure him here. I think we're a lot more talented than his Miami teams. I understand the want for the college guys, in fact, I would like a few of them. One guy I've always been very interested in is Gus Malzahan. All of these dreams aside, I'll be surprised if we would even consider a wunderkid coach.
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This is just a general reply...I have no freaking clue who they can/or will even want to get..but Ive thought about what I would do if I owned the team and what could I do to turn it around/hire the right people.
I would hire a top level consulting firm that deals with NFL stats figures ect..I would give them a list of names I was interested in like say top 10 choices.
And have them run analytic info on each one...and what do the numbers say who has the best chance for success..their work history..how well they meshed with their previous bosses what are there strenghts ect..
And try to get them here and put it in the contract they got 5yrs to turn things around...and pay what I would have to pay to keep my core management in place and not get poached from another team if things are progressing and see light at the end of the tunnel.
IDk maybe they already do this but someone is dropping the ball and bad..Jimmy I know but damn the guy needs to change his methods of hiring and keeping people.
And at this point I would do the opposite of whatever my thought process has been to this point.
Just for clarification I would have never hired Pettine or Farmer and in my above scenario keeping them is not the option for me..even though keeping them would be doing the opposite of what he has done to this point.
Idk what the answer is but I dont think Farmer Pettine or O'Neil are it...dont have any real complaints about flip...other then I wish we ran the ball a lot more..meh IDK just spit balling ideas
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~ Legend
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The last time we hired an outside consulting firm they told us to draft Teddy and we drafted Johnny instead 
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Yep, hiring another unproven college coach is about as dumb as it gets.
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Yep, hiring another unproven college coach is about as dumb as it gets. Another? Unproven?
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Butch Davis. Never forget.
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Just throwing another thought in the ring; are we sure the problem is Farmer and not the scouts under him?
I'm thinking of the movie "Moneyball", a story about how the Oakland A's GM Billy Beane changed the culture of how the A's built their team. In the movie, he told his scouts what to look for, but they resisted the changes and did things the way they always did despite his instructions. It wasn't till Beane fired the biggest resisters that they did what he wanted.
Now I'm not suggesting this is what is going on, but it demonstrates that the perceived performance of a GM is directly tied to that of the scouts working for him. If they don't perform well, nobody says, "it's the scouts' fault." The GM gets the blame.
I don't know the exact situation within the Browns' scouting system, but I suspect Farmer inherited the scouts hired by others. Nobody is impressed with his performance so far, but it COULD be that the scouts are a large part of the problem.
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2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
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This is Farmer's 3rd year in Cleveland. I'm pretty sure I remember his first draft that "the scouts" were the excuse, but I can't buy that anymore. Especially with his FA moronics. If the problem has been the scouts this entire time than Ray Farmer deserves to be fired for basing a strategy around drafting with crappy scouts employed.
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Butch Davis. Never forget. Butch Davis was very proven.
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Butch Davis. Never forget. Butch David the coach did a great job. Unfortunately, Butch Davis the GM stunk. He buries us in salary cap hell and after the 2002 season we had to purge our roster.
Last edited by Jester; 12/22/15 11:28 PM.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Butch Davis. Never forget. Butch David the coach did a great job. Unfortunately, Butch Davis the GM stunk. He buries us in salary cap hell and after the 2002 season we had to purge our roster. That was because we went all-in to try to win it all before Lerner passed away.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I could have sworn that Farmer shook-up the scouting department and even used it as an excuse early on????
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I could have sworn that Farmer shook-up the scouting department and even used it as an excuse early on???? Yup,, I think so also. Not sure it was used as an excuse. Could be that he just felt he wasn't getting what he needed. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/05/cleveland_browns_revamping_sco.html
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Former Browns director of college scouting John Spytek.Browns/NFL
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The shakeup of the Browns' personnel staff continued Wednesday as Director of College Scouting John Spytek was fired along with two pro scouts.
Spytek, who had a year remaining on his contract, was let go after declining a reduced role with the club, a source said. Spytek, who had been with the team since 2010, was one of former General Manager Tom Heckert's two right-hand men. The other, Director of Player Personnel Jon Sandusky, has not been let go and has a year remaining on his contract.
Two other pro scouts, A.J. Durso and Tom Headlee, were fired. Both had a year left on their contracts and both came here from the Seahawks, where they worked with former Browns President Mike Holmgren.
Spytek and other key members of Heckert's staff had no direct say in the team's draft decisions last week and many weren't in the "war room."
Spytek and Sandusky both previous worked with the Philadelphia Eagles, where they worked under Heckert and Browns CEO Joe Banner, the former Eagles president.
If Spytek or the others are hired by a team this season, the Browns will only have to pay the difference in the salaries.
Earlier in the week, Senior National Scout Pat Roberts, hired by former GM Phil Savage and had been with the team for eight years, left after the Browns did not renew his contract. Two weeks ago, college area scout Bob Welton left to take over as the University of Tennessee's director of player personnel.
It's common for members of the holdover staff to be let go after the draft.
Justice not visiting: Former Colts and Eagles offensive tackle Winston Justice was never scheduled to visit the Browns, a source said. ESPN's Adam Schefter reported Tuesday that the unrestricted free agent would be visiting on Wednesday. ... The Browns are not interested in acquiring Cardinals backup quarterback and Cleveland native Brian Hoyer, contrary to an NFL Network report during the draft.
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^ Farmer wasn't the GM when this happened. In fact, he had been in Cleveland for two months. This is when Banner hired people with zero scouting experience and worked for Nascar or something.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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^ Farmer wasn't the GM when this happened. Didn't farmer start in 2013? I just checked, he became the Asst. GM under Lombardi in either Jan or Feb 2013 so he was most certainly here when that happened, but NO, he wasn't the GM. SO you are right. I don't think I read about any severe changes in 2014 after the Draft? Maybe I just missed it.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Looks like, once again, Jimmy wasn't able to close the deal ion a big fish.
Time to amp up your game Jimmy.
Barry Bonds Check
Roger Clemens Check
Mark McGuire Check
Lance Armstrong Check
71-79 Steelers Taboo
(Lets pretend it didn't happen.)
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Jimmy asked gramps to see if the kid would come here and wolf told him no (you would have to ask for yourself).
Sorry Ray but Jimmy broke up with you
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Jimmy asked gramps to see if the kid would come here and wolf told him no (you would have to ask for yourself). You heard that where? I missed it.
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It's directly from the old man himself
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Wolf's son, Eliot, the Packers' director of player personnel, likely will be a prime candidate for a number of potential GM openings this offseason should he pursue them. Wolf said Monday that he will not be involved in any way if the Browns decide to replace Farmer and want to pursue Eliot.
"No, no. That's already come up. I told [Haslam] that that is an entirely different situation. He'd have to do that himself. I would not be a part of it," Wolf said.
Eliot Wolf may choose to stay with the Packers, as he would be a logical candidate to someday take over once 62-year-old GM Ted Thompson retires.
"I would never, ever try to influence him to go someplace," the elder Wolf said. "You just can't do that."
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Thanks, I just saw it in another thread. I wasn't doubting you. I just wanted to read all of it for myself.
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