DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum If the case for keeping them both doesn't win out. . .

I saw this article today and thought it was an excellent read, especially given mine and a few other's thoughts that we should perhaps keep Pettine but fire Farmer. The question then becomes who would be a viable GM - there is a nice list of potential candidates here, as well as a good write up (if obvious) of the need for GM and HC to be on the same page 100%.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ms-rep-and-more

I know after so many failed FO set ups - I have a stronger and stronger urge to just spend whatever it takes to get in a proven winner. Nearly anyone from the list they have - and certainly the further south you go on the list - represents more risk. But reading through some of these candidates makes me believe that there are football smart people out there that could come in and immediately have a positive influence on this team and FO.

Would have posted on the other thread but saw it was locked.

IMO, the blurbs on Beckham, Bridgewater, and Mack were much more interesting.

It's doesn't matter who we bring in as coach and GM, it will likely just be more of the same.

I liked the whole article and liked the info on those 3 players as much as the rest of it. As much as I coveted the idea of taking Mack - I do wonder if he would have been given the opportunity to be as successful here with our coaching and defense.

The one that caught my attention was the Dallas GM candidate that was a former coach. That's an interesting wrinkle to a GM's resume. That could really help to get on the same page with your coach, especially if the coach is the alpha dog.

The only one of those players who would have been successful here is Beckham. He's a special once in a generation type of player who was great right away.

If you are not great right away in Cleveland, you will be run out of town by the players and media. You are a bust right away if you don't come out of the gates looking like a HOF.

I think it's all about egos. If you can put your ego aside your chances increase tenfold. Unfortunately, Pettine and Farmer appear to have huge egos that they can't put aside.

On a side note, I was surprised by Pettine's candor in his Wednesday or Thursday presser. He basically conceded being fired even though players have spoke up in his behalf. He did follow it up with a "we've planted seeds for success" but it was somewhat half hearted. He said we've failed more than we've passed in a pass / fail leg. He almost seemed ok with it.

I'm not sure who will stay and who will go..

I'm sure of one thing, Something has to be done...

I went to the gameday forum and there are only 4 threads with a total of 36 posts and its a day before Kickoff..

Surely shows no Enthusiasm left in the fan base...If it wasn't for the same handful of posters that keep posting on here, It wouldn't surprise me if there was no threads in gameday...

Whoever stays, whoever comes in... You have one hell of a task ahead of you for next season.. And you better come in swinging hard,Change is a Must!!

I'm not sure who will stay and who will go..

Its the end of the year Cleveland Browns Clearance Sale, everything must go lol.

Ordinarily one can make a case for keeping one side or the other but there just isnt one. Cam ERving, Justin Gilbert, West and Bowe are things Farmer just cant overcome.

Pet cant overcome a 3 win season, poor clock management and questionable personnel and game decisions. You cant talk building a team on defense and a powerful run game and have a defense that cant stop anyone and a run game that looks like 3 blind mice.

I enjoyed reading all the articles. Good stuff.



That sure sounds familiar. There were guys like tab and mac who wanted to paint Shanny as the villain, but man, having a meddling GM bound to lead to dysfunction.

That plus a rookie HC that has never been "the man" at any level and who runs camps softer than Romeo's camp cupcake.... not a great combination. Leads not only to dysfunction, but an undisciplined team. Guys think they can do as they wish and you end up with what we had yesterday. Two idiots arrested on Christmas.

I will be OH so glad when both Pettine and Farmer are gone.

It's ringing awfully hollow even to me, but I think we've gotta try giving continuity one more year-if only to give the next guy down the road some sense of the job being possible. Maybe let O'Neil go and have Pet go back to focusing on the D and hire someone to D-Coordinate/ asst. HC with a focus on clock management. It's kind of a bitter pill, but I think any other move we make will just set us even further back.

I would be interested in Eliot Wolf, but I've read that he is Ted Thompson's successor in Green Bay. Hard to give up the chance to run the Packers.

Nick Caserio and Eric DeCosta have had numerous chances to leave over the years and never have.

If Alec Scheiner stays, I would guess Will McClay has a shot (I know nothing about him).

In the end, we don't really know anything about the "On the cusp" or the "On the way up" guys because the personnel people below the GM don't talk to the media and we don't know what their responsibilities are. Hard to say if they are good or not.

Why wouldn't Alec Scheiner stay?

He's got nothing to do with the product on the field? And it appears that he does a pretty good job as the chief Admin guy.

If he is meddling in the football operations portion of the team, then Haslam might decide to get rid of him to start fresh. My guess is that he will stick around.

Fixed it for you.

I was ganna make a joke abiut hiring an offensive minded HC, because that would lead to us having a good defense..

But I just don't even care..

This is the first season in a while, that theres literally nothing to look forward to, in the past, we had at least a glimmer of something, whether it be a 4 game win streak, an exciting new QB, getting rid of Pat Shurmur..

But now its just.. whatever..

I agree with you, just don't think it is likely. In the end, all that matters is the money and Scheiner is making Haslam more money.

Very true, Billy. I don't think anyone will dispute that...

Maybe the Bills will cut the cord quickly and we can hire Rex as our DC..

That'd be interesting at least.

Rex taking orders from Pettin, don't see that happening.

If you're hiring a guy like Rex as DC. You're basically naming him Defensive HC.

It'd make more sense for him to come be a DC on one of his former proteges teams, running the same system, than him tryin to join a staff an alter their or his system..

Who knows, maybe he'll say "Can't beat Em, join em" and ask his Uncle Bill for a job in NE.

Not disagreeing, I'd take him tomorrow over O'neil. This defense is a joke.

I am of the opinion that we should:

--Fire Farmer ASAP

--Retain Pet

--Replace O'Neil

--Retain Flip

--Revamp the scouting staff

Why:

Farmer: Bad picks don't just hurt you for one play, one game, one season. They hurt for you up to a decade. He has been a major failure and our team has been set back years.

Pet: Coaches can improve on things like game management, handling players, etc. What I have been thinking about him........he might be just what we need........and this is important.............many of us talk about changing the losing culture of the Browns. Pet is NOT playing players that aren't earning the position. Some say he isn't developing them or that he is spiting Farmer, but has ANYONE ever considered he is trying to change the culture? You know........where preparation and performance mean more than how you were acquired? If that is the case, he is EXACTLY what we need.

--O'Neil: I hate how he doesn't use Mingo and Kruger properly. I don't like how he had Dansby lose that much weight. I don't like how we crash down on the edges and how little pressure we generate. I kinda feel sorry for him because I think our poor DB has hurt us this year, but it's become hard to defend him.

--Flip: I was skeptical. He never had this much power before. I think he is creative. His route trees are pretty darn good. He's young and can learn. I wish he would run the ball more and change his run blocking schemes a bit to what they were w/Shanny. His clock management is terrible. But, all in all.....he has earned more time.

--Scouting staff: The picks have been horrid. It can't all be on Farmer, can it? The scouting staff has sucked thus far.

1. I'm up in air on Pet, I have been critical of him but he has had a very limited talent pool to execute his gameplan.

2. O,neil is a total disaster, I hope Pet is not so married to him that it costs him his job.

3. Farmer is a disaster, his picks, his FA acquisitions, everything he has done seems to be a failure.

4. Flip, with what he has had to work with I am very impressed. He had generated alot of passing yards with the talent he has. The run game needs some help but man the QB's this year have put up some huge games with very littel play makers.

Keep Manziel, keep Pettine. Fire Pettine, get rid of Manziel. That's where I'm at.

No, it can't, but Farmer has the ultimate responsibility.
Seems their record, based on limited play to date, has been spotty. There have been some success stories (e.g. Bitonio), with perhaps more to come from the current roster, but with what we have seen so far, let's simply say that "spotty" is being generous...

I would do this:

Fire Ray and the DC, keep Pettine and Flip, get new scouts.

I can't wait to see what happens, we will know in eight days or so.

I dont see a scenario where Pett should stay. It would be stupid to force a GM to work with Pettine instead of letting them pick their own coach.

A shotgun marriage is how we got here in the first place

Well, I suggest the question(s) would be:

- Who is under-performing,
- Which position has the more impact,
- Which position is easier to replace,
- And likely other question marks as well.

I think I mentioned this in one of these posts but not sure if it got any traction or not as my board time has been spotty lately, but if Pett stays there is already a GM on staff that he appeared to work well with...Kuharich (sp?).

If Haslam is intent on keeping Manziel, he probably has to retain Pett. And if he retains Pett, he already has a GM on staff he works well with. If you want to maintain continuity AND make a change, this is probably the way to go. Everyone stays except Farmer (and hopefully O'Neil).

Burn it down. Find a capable architect that can rebuild it, throw money at them, and give them free rein over football ops.

And while I'm at it, get rid of those ridiculous uniforms.

I think the problem is the new logo, it was just to dramatic of a change and it threw everyone off balance.

Interesting list. I would like to see the Browns go after someone from a winning organization(Pitt, Seattle, NE). I wouldn't want to see them settle for someone from a lesser organization. I know any hire is a chance taken, but I have seen enough of settling and taking the 3rd or 4th choice.

I hope for an offensive minded coach that wants an aggressive vertical passing game and wants an aggressive 4-3 defense. I hate the 3-4 defense and a small ball offense.

I despise the 3-4. With a passion.

C'mon Rish. He's just "controlling the controllables."

Every defense works if the players are good and are put in the position to succeed. We have neither of those things.

From the article.. Duke Tobin, director of player personnel, Cincinnati Bengals: Like McClay, Tobin has already reached the scouting peak of an owner-driven operation. He's got a quiet way, but the talent in Cincy speaks for itself.

I've posted about Tobin before.. he's a big target for me.