DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Who is Cam Erving on the field of play.

And an offensive line coach.

If the link works, we can hear Cam Erving addressing the media today (4/19)... CamE.

He lacked technique often, and it could be worse at center. Hope the weights helped and he can find better feet and leverage.

And I agree with him. I think it was technique more than strength too.

That being said, I think that physically he looks much better this year.

j/c

I'm really glad the link to his presser was posted. The one thing I come away with is this guy is accountable. He was prodded to make excuses and he didn't do it. He remains confident in his ability to play football and he's worked hard leading up to the off season program. I'm encouraged.

j/c:

I liked Cam's enthusiasm, but I am going to stick to what I have been saying all along.

Cam's technique was bad. His legs are rather weak, much weaker than his upper body. He often became top heavy and his pin legs gave away as we saw multiple times when he was overpowered.

Poor technique and lack of lower body strength is a killer for almost any position, and especially so for an offensive linemen.

cfrs says that playing only center will or might help w/his technique, but playing w/leverage, balance, proper foot spacing, having your chest over your thighs, etc is not unique to any one offensive line position. Those things are universal rules.

When you make evaluations about technique and mechanics usually they have validity. So I'll accept your assessment of his technique. Instead I can only say he seems to recognize that his technique needs to improve. Unlike some other players Erviing seems to have worked on those aspects of his game during the off season. That doesn't mean there is not a ton of work left to do. I just don't think he's a finished product after one year.

Never said he wasn't working on them and never said he was a finished product.

Can we at least agree that he'll need to demonstrate improved technique to have a change at being a decent starter?

I think that the center position does force you to have a little better base to start with. When you snap the ball, it forces your shoulders above your knees and keeps you from making that initial move of standing straight up. It forces you to engage low. Especially if a NT is playing on your nose.

Guard is the easiest position to play too high in my opinion. Especially if you are playing against a 3-4 defense and are uncovered. You concentrate more on your feet and can forget about your base. A rookie with his head spinning from thinking too much can do this pretty easy. That being said, the two times I saw Erving being knocked on his keister, where both goal-line situations. The only thing you should be thinking about in those situations is about your base. It is very, very simple coaching. "Low man wins!" Even Jr High schools have these low bars that they have both offensive and defensive lineman engage under to drill this in their minds. As long as Houck had tape of Erving, this is an easy fix if Erving does indeed have the strength. Even though he started out as a DT, he was coached on this very thing even then. He may not have understood it at the time being moved around as much as he was, but I'm certain Houck has made that point clear now.

I also thought that he overextended times, and that threw his balance completely off.

He was a mess in a lot of ways last year. He is going to have to take steps forward in a lot of areas in order to become an above average starter.

I think the insights from Bentley [especially], Joe Thomas, and Dieken regarding Erving from the article I posted in the Hue Jackson thread go a long way to explaining why Erving's technique is lacking.

vers..I'm gonna post that article over here, too. I had not seen that article for some reason and thought it gave some good insight.



Cleveland Browns' rookie Cameron Erving must make significant offseason strides or, 'it's going to get much worse'


Tom Reed, Cleveland.com
December 26, 2015 at 4:31 PM, updated December 26, 2015 at 9:28 PM
link

BEREA, Ohio – It bothers former Pro Bowl offensive lineman LeCharles Bentley to hear fans and media members labeling Cameron Erving a "bust."

The Cleveland native believes the description is inaccurate and unfair. Bentley thinks the Browns rookie offensive lineman has a "high level of talent" and defends the organization's decision to select him in the first round.

He's also witnessed the season-long struggles and some embarrassing rookie moments, leading Bentley to observe: "Technically, he has no clue what he's doing."

Erving's most important season isn't the one that begins in September, Bentley said, but the one that starts after next week's game against the Steelers ends.

"I hope he turns this thing around, but whatever he does it's going to have to be a full onslaught investment from January to the time he reports back to OTAs," Bentley told Cleveland.com. "My advice would be take two weeks off. Go to wherever you want to go to have a good time. Eat bad food, live your life, let your hair down – but after that it's time to go to work.

"If he doesn't understand that and the people around him aren't preaching that then he is being set up for failure – and you can put this on record – it's going to be much worse than it is now."

Bentley is one of several former and currently players who think Erving is facing the most pivotal offseason of his football career. Barring injury, the 23-year-old will start the final two games at right guard because of injuries to John Greco (knee) and Joel Bitonio (ankle).

The real work, however, comes over the next three months as the Florida State product looks to get stronger and more technically proficient.

Erving vows to return a better, stronger player and admits, he "played like (crap)" in two starts at left guard before getting benched.

Erving's development is one of the team's biggest offseason storylines. The Browns could lose right tackle Mitchell Schwartz and three-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack to free agency. The club drafted Erving with the idea of moving him to center if Mack, as many expect, opts out of his contract.

"You win and lose in the offseason," said Browns radio analyst and former left tackle Doug Dieken. "Cam has to win in the offseason."

Teams can no longer keep close tabs on players 12 months a year. The 2011 collective bargaining agreement forbids a position coach and strength-and-conditioning coach working year around with players such as Erving.

It's what makes off-site training facilities and niche programs such as Bentley's O-Line Performance academy in Chandler, Ariz., so important.

"Sometimes how (players) do in the fall depends on what choices they make, where they want to spend (time), who they want to train with and where they're going to be in the spring," Browns coach Mike Pettine said.

The coach said the staff already has begun talking to some players about their offseason plans.

Following his senior year, Erving elected to train at EXOS in Florida, while his Seminoles teammate Tre' Jackson – a Patriots' fourth-round pick – joined Bentley in Arizona. Jackson has started seven games this season.

Asked why Erving didn't attend his academy, Bentley said: "I won't get into that."

The former Saints and Browns offensive lineman, who's career was cut short by a nasty case of staph infection, doesn't think the Browns reached in choosing Erving with the No. 19 overall pick. He believes another team would have taken the versatile lineman in the first round.

But Bentley said Erving has physical and technical deficiencies that must be improved. Many times, he added, it comes down to the pro player's desire to commit to workouts.

"At some point you have to take ownership of your career, of your life and decide what it is you truly want to do," Bentley said. "Do you want to listen to hangers-on? That's a choice you make. Those people, unfortunately, are not on the field when you are facing (Bengals defensive tackle) Geno Atkins."

Bentley hopes Erving took note of comments made by perennial Pro Bowler Joe Thomas regarding the "science of offensive line play."

The left tackle was asked earlier in the week about the one facet Erving should focus on during the offseason. Thomas stressed footwork and technique.

"A lot of times you will see guys getting beat in the NFL in general on the offensive line because their feet are out of place," the left tackle said. "Your strength and power comes from where your feet are. I am probably one of the weakest offensive lineman in the NFL, but it doesn't matter if you have good feet and you are constantly in good position. You are using leverages. You are using angles.

" . . . Low man wins, leverage, angles. Really it is those techniques and nuances of the position that I think will be the most important for Cam to work on this offseason. That is the great part of OTAs for young guys. They have opportunities to work on that technique during a no-pads session where you don't have the fear of being physically beaten or getting your quarterback hurt like you would if you were in full pads or if it was in the middle of a game."

Erving spent spring practices and training camp learning multiple positions. He competed with Greco at right guard, but lost out to the eighth-year veteran.

Concern about Erving's development spiked at midseason when he faltered badly in a two-game starting stint in place of Bitonio. He was beaten repeatedly and memorably overpowered by the Steelers' Cam Heyward, who drove Erving backward into running back Isaiah Crowell for a 5-yard loss on Nov. 15

The Browns benched Erving in favor of journeyman Austin Pasztor. The rookie also had difficult on field-goal team duties, as several kicks were blocked on his watch. In fairness, at least two of the kicks were low.

Erving is eager to build some confidence and momentum over the final two games, starting Sunday against the Chiefs.

"I just want to get more game experience, go out there and play and use the technique I've learned," Erving said. "I just want to play the game to the best of my ability like anyone else would."

Dieken said Erving is hardly the first offensive lineman to endure a "rude awakening" in his rookie season. He pointed to the growing pains of St. Edward and Ohio State product Alex Boone, who's started the past four seasons with the Niners after working with Bentley to clean up technical and off-field issues.

"Cam was very athletic in college, but when you get to this level you cannot just get by on one thing," said Dieken, who thinks Erving must gain more upper-body strength. "You've got to develop a complete package."

Bentley believes Erving can make significant progress this offseason.

"You can call this year disappointing, but he's far from a bust," Bentley said. "There's a lot of talent there. It's about making a full investment and that's where the rubber meets the road for many of these guys."

For Erving, it starts when the season finale ends.

In other words, a few guys who know OL

Thanks for these posts!

So he'll be focused only at the center position? Brilliant! Let's not take anymore rookies and play them at a hundred different spots, unless we know that person is a strict project and not a high round first pick.

j/c

This seems as good a place as any for this:

5 Myths of OL Training

I was amused by Lecharles' comments

https://twitter.com/NateUlrichABJ/status/814190098313048064

John St. Clair, you have some competition!

Its a good move, he isnt a center at t his level. Just doesnt have the mental part of the game and frankly I like shorter centers. RT is probably gonna be his best position. I thought he would be able to adapt but let him spend this offseason learning RT and go from there.

This is a fantastic and I mean fantastic center class we need to draft one.

Erving shouldn't go anywhere.

I don't understand why so many people what this guy gone. We have bigger problems. Like our injured guards for one.

At least he can stay on the field. Can't count on bitonio for anything.

Ok, I was going to stay out of this BUT.....Mac's BS meter is going off again.

Erving has NOTHING to do with this FO. This was a Farmer pick.

For the Love of Pete, just stop!

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#1. I doubt Farmer had any interest in what Sashi had to say about a C in the draft.

#2. They can see if he shows any talent at RT. A last look before they break and then bring "em back for OTA's.

No. A few might have worked FOR and Under Farmer, but not with him. Major distinction.

I can't say if it's a good move only time will tell. But I can say given his struggles have been mental and leverage a move to rt can't hurt in those aspects. He is a good athlete with a good base and great length. Logic would point to an improve output for him. There aren't many with cams physical abilities that play rt.

For those concerned, the following is from 1/3/16 story, entitled...


"Who is Sashi Brown, the Cleveland Browns' new executive VP of football operations?"

January 03, 2016 at 10:20 PM, updated January 03, 2016 at 11:10 PM
link

Brown has overseen the team's salary cap, negotiations of player contracts and worked closely with fired general manager Ray Farmer.


CHS...this from Jimmy Haslam says Sashi worked closely "with" Farmer...major distinction "confirmed"!

Mac, your a major piece of work. This has nothing to do with drafting and everything to do with contracts.

Again I repeat....For the Love of Pete... Just Stop

May I ask why you are freaking out on mac and ignored this dumb-ass comment?



Cam sucks!

I am amazed at how many people make continual excuses for Erving. THe guy has sucked butt since he's been here and yet there are all kinds of posters defending this bum.

Predator usually makes good posts, but I'm sorry, Erving does not play w/a good base. There might not be a player in the entire NFL who ends up getting knocked flat on his back as much as Cam does.

So, if I could borrow your line:

For what it's worth base was meant physically as in he is well built and has good lower body stength. I mispoke. He does not have good balance or flexibility and often loses his because of it. Next time I will be more clear.

And if anything I've said sounds like an excuse it's being misconstrued. Frankly the combination of physical ability, my study of him coming out and his contract are the main reasons why I don't want to see him abandoned. I don't think having cam as a backup is a bad thing for a roster at all and I still believe he has a chance to come around if he wants to. Will he, is the question. If not I have no personal attachment whatsoever. Cut

Also (so I don't have to edit again) I 100% support moving on from him as a center. I'm one of the rare people who believe center is THE most important position of the OL. Draft a new center, let the kid who got hurt compete and give cam one more chance to realize his potential. I simply don't want to cut him early and see him flourish elsewhere when it does us no harm to hold on to him.

For somebody that thinks Haslem is a liar and a cheat, I find it funny that you're using what he says to back your argument.

Ok. So, even if we ignore that the GM is the top of the ladder for teams and people report to him. How is someone who solely manages contracts and negotiations involved with drafting players, when draftees already have pre-structured contracts?

I'm sorry. I wasn't clear, either.

I wasn't saying that you were making excuses for Cam. I meant that a lot of people have been making excuses for him since he started playing last year.

I only brought up your point about his base because I don't think he plays w/a good base. He plays too upright. That was the only comment I made directed to you. Sorry about the confusion. I did say that you make a lot of good posts, though. And you do. I have been noticing that, especially in the draft forum.

Sorry for not being clear.

Other than you picking on mac, what does any of this have to do w/how good Cam is?

It doesn't have anything to do with how good/bad Cam is. It does however have to do with correcting misinformation about who selected Cam. It's also hardly picking on someone. If I were to say, 'Sashi Brown told Bernie Kosar to audible and tell Belichick to screw himself.' and you corrected me, you'd be correcting me. Not picking on me. Gigantic difference.

You are good at changing the subject. Cam stinks. Debate that.

I would not call that freaking out, I'm mild compared to some. Mac's constant bashing on the FO less than a year into to pretty much sums it up. These guys can do no right in his eyes, pretty much feel like deputy dawg, just tired of all the BS with Mac.