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I don't like any of this year's qbs w/that high of a pick.

I find route running to be very important. I just think it's a skill that grows with time. It's like linemen entering the draft weak, it's going to happen. They're young. They don't have that grown man strength. WR's suck at route running. They're young. They haven't had time to develop the skill of route running. I'm just saying, it's a natural part of drafting that every WR suffers from.

Just a general question, but we all know how QB reads are very much simplified in the college read option .....what about the receiver routes? Are routes in the read option very specific, requiring precision in spot and timing .... or is there more freelance by the receivers in the read option?

I have never really paid that much attention to that aspect of the read option.

WR routes are more simpler in college. But they do require them to run it decently precise. The entire point of being able to run precise routes is that it's the best way to create separation from the corner. In college, it's much easier for a WR to create separation by just running straight and letting the speed difference do the work. There's no reason to run precise routes in college.

I meant, more specifically, the read option offense.

There are some teams that run pro style offenses, where the routes are every bit as precise as those professional teams run. However, we see more and more of the read option in college, and I was wondering, specifically, about that offense, and the routes run by the receivers in that particular offensive structure.

Its kind of amazing how bad we've been, and how many terrible seasons we've had..

And yet we ever really pick in the top 3. Let alone #1.

Hell we'll probably beat KC and end up picking like 7th somehow..

http://smartfootball.com/passing/snag-st...h.9IN7rzU6.dpbs

I hope that answers your question better than I can.

It depends on how open you are to changing your mind.

Jared Goff is a fantastic NFL QB prospect that has an incredibly high ceiling. He's not Andrew Luck, but I'd put him a notch below that, still has elite potential.

You have to weigh the potential of the QBs in this draft vs the current potential of Manziel, someone who you dont have to use a Top 5 pick in this draft on..

So then youre measuring Goff, Cook, and Lynch against Manziel & a Top 5 pick.

If we keep the offensive staff intact, id be more inclined to go with Manziel and try t put Bette talent around him and on defense..

If everyone gets fired, Manziel loses a lot in terms of having to learn a new playbook just like a rookie would, and I cant assume he'd be that far ahead of them in terms of being able to learn a playbook.

I dont know what way is better, and I dont think we will have any general ideas of direction until after Black Monday..

Good route running is invaluable at any level. A guy who makes sharp cuts is way more likely to get open than a guy who rounds cuts. A guy who gets in front of the DBs face is way more likely to make a reception and avoid a interception than a guy who will let the db undercut him. It's common sense, really.

The difference is that college receivers in the offenses you are talking about is that they do not have to make as many sight adjustments and hot reads as NFL receivers and they don't have to make as many zone reads.

If you guys want a Andrew Luck type of prospect. Watch Josh Rosen of UCLA and wait 2 years.

Not all route trees are equal.

Even Luck has not looked good this year with the line and talent he is surrounded by. I know QB is the most important position on the team but he can't do it all alone.

But you can't ignore the fact that the Colts went from In the playoffs, to #1 overall, to right back in the playoffs..

Peyton Manning
Curtis Painter
Andrew Luck

One of these things is not like the other..

ftfy

I read this moments after Rosen dropped a dime in the UCLA bowl game. Can we draft him this year and just have his rights for when he comes to the league?

Just stash him in Europe or something.

Thanks guys.

I think that I am having a problem properly phrasing my question.

I have heard about why so many read option QBs have had issues coming to the NFL, with the more basic reads and concepts they ran in college, and how some NFL teams have adapted some of the simpler concepts to help these QBs. I guess maybe I phrased things poorly, as obviously there are basic types of routes, whether in college or the NFL.

Many read option QBs have had trouble coming to the NFL, with their more complex schemes and concepts. Teams have brought in some of these plays to give the read option a go to play, when in a difficult situation. College WRs also used to have problems coming to the NFL, with a 1st year adjustment period not all that uncommon. Using the eyeball only, it seems like receivers in the read option are not as locked into precise routes/concepts/adjustments as in pro style offenses.

I get your point, and it is a good one, about receivers getting the basics right, such as not allowing the DB to undercut him, etc. (unless, of course, he is setting the DB up for a throw over the top in a man to man situation) However, it just looks like college spread receivers, like the college spread QB, can use their innate skills and abilities more, and don't need to learn the real nuances of playing the position in their college offenses. However, many of these college WRs are hitting the league, and the old idea of the college receiver needing a year to adapt to the NFL seems to be gone in many cases.

The read option gives much more basic reads to the QB. I guess that was my question about the WRs was using routes as a catch all term, not just the route itself, as, obviously there are only so many "routes" a receiver can run, but was more about asking if the receiver in a read option has similarly simpler reads/adjustments to the QB, and if the receiver is required to have as much precision in the read option as in the WCO, or other pro offenses. (for example) *major run on sentence warning* Does a WR in the read option who runs an imprecise route blow up the play as badly as the receiver who does so in a WCO based offense? I so, then what accounts for the number of college, read option receivers, who have come to the NFL and had an immediate impact?

I think you've fallen for the "read option" trap. There's not really a difference. Spread is a formation, not a hurr durr imprecise philosophy. First off, not many teams run a 'read option', but they will run the spread. Teams can run various spread offenses and make their schemes as complex as they want. Most teams don't because you can only teach 20 year olds so much. But the idea that a WCO is much more precise than the spread isn't real.

If you're asking why WR's seem to make a difference so quickly now, I'd have to give it up to 1) NFL teams employing more spread concepts in their offense, 2) NFL became a passing league and 3) Great QB play for a few, 4) unplanned for change in height of receivers vs. CB's

I think that height of the receivers is a big reason. NFL rules that do not allow teams to touch a receiver, combined with size and speed is a major factor. Good point.

I also think that there are a lot of really average teams. Right now, there are only 12 out of 32 teams that have a winning record. I suppose that probably also has a part in things.

Why do you think this?

If we lose next week, we have at least the second pick. The Titans play the Colts and control their own destiny.

If we win and the Chargers lose (they play the Broncos), then there is a chance we would pick third. That is the worst pick we can possibly get as the Chargers are the only team with four wins going into week seventeen.

Cowboys and the 49ers also at 4 wins. I think our strength of schedule is easier than theirs, however...

Oh wow. I'm an idiot. I was only looking at the AFC.

Before this week's games the Cowboys had a strength of schedule of .536 and we had a strength of schedule of .530. So it's close. The 49ers were at .560.

I don't see any way we beat Pittsburgh, so it's all probably a moot point.

Not true. Your posts are concise, accurate, and to-the-point without the oft-times accompanying BS that is occasionally seen from a (very) few posters. Nice job...

He has, consistently, destroyed the blitz when he's faced them. He makes fast decisions and routinely has perfect footwork to execute a fast, accurate throw.

Goff is absolutely elite in the intermediate throws. What he lacks on his deep ball, he more than makes up for it from about 10-20 yard throws.

Goff also has impeccable timing and his presnap reads are usually really solid. While he hasn't had to call plays or read a defense from under center, he has shown to be incredibly good at reading a defense from the shotgun.

Goff's best asset is his incredible footwork in the pocket. It's damn near immaculate. He has that sneaky mobility and knows exactly when and where to avoid the rush. He is nearly always stepping into his throws, and he almost always is releasing the ball near his ear.

A lot of people point to the Utah game as for one he struggle in. For my money, he threw 2 bad passes. His others were drops or a lack of a WR battling for the ball.

Most importantly for Goff, he isn't used to being surrounded by a lot of talent. He is an overcomer, taking Cal from a team that did not win a game 3 years ago to bowl eligible this year.

I know a lot of people want to talk down about Goff, and there are some legitimate concerns. He is slight, although I believe he will fill out fine. He hasn't played in a pro offense, which is a ding against him. And his deep ball is spotty at best, something that he must work on at the next level.

Goff, to me, is a better version of Matt Ryan. I think Goff's deep ball will eventually be better than Ryan's rather poor deep ball. If Goff ever develops a good deep ball, he could be in the Andrew Luck tier, but I don't think that'll ever happen. He'll be average at it, but I wouldn't expect Cam Newton or Joe Flacco type deep passes from Goff ever.

Lynch plays Wednesday at 12. Just a fun fact on him. He played running back in high school before he grew freakishly tall and had to play QB. It's why he's very athletic and a good runner.

I don't want to draft a QB. Give me a good pass rusher or stud wr.

We can get them in FA...Guys like Muhammad Wilkerson and Malcom Floyd will be free agents. Plus we still can't count out Joshizzle Snoop dawgy dawg Gordon just yet.

I can almost guarantee we will be drafting a QB this year. That is if we have any sense at all. Yikes I said that out loud.

Frye, Quinn, and Hoyer were from the Cleveland area as well. Just take the best player.

Goff plays tomorrow at 2

Cook is a legit jerk, though. And that's putting it mildly.

I do not trust him to become a leader of men. And this isn't a Manziel thing where he drinks off the field. I don't think his teammates like him or really even respect him.

Colts will play Tennessee with a 4th string QB. White hurst is getting IR'd.

Quinn is Columbus area.. He went to Dublin Coffman.

Slight tweaks...

Trade down out of top spot for a 2nd round pick (bargain to anyone interested in the top 8).

1td) ILB Jaylon Smith, Notre Dame
2) WR Josh Doctson, TCU
2td) FS Vonn Bell, Ohio State
3) ILB Scooby Wright III, Arizona
4) OLB Yannick Ngakoue, Maryland
5) DL Chris Jones, Miss St
5c1) OLB Tyrone Holmes, Montana
5c2) WR Nelson Spruce, Colorado
5c3) FS/NB Trevon Stewart, Houston
6) WR Corey Davis, Western Michigan
7) K Jaden Oberkrom, TCU
7c) C Mitch Smothers, Arkansas

Every pick through the 6th round is for a major impact player on their team. Certainly everyone through the first 5 rounds (9 players) are guys who will step up and make impact plays when they needed. You could make an argument that Jones is just a very good player at his position, but the other guys are all game changers for their teams in college.

I think we significantly improve the pass rush and run D with these linebackers. Holmes led the FCS in sacks (18) and Ngakoue was second in FBS (13.5).

Bell and Stewart are such good players that have a knack for making big plays when their teams need them. Both guys can make plays downfield and at the LOS.

Doctson, Spruce, and Davis give us three new 6 footers + with excellent production. Spruce WAS the passing offense at Colorado. Doctson nearly led the damn NCAA in receiving yards before he got hurt. Corey Davis is huge and shows good speed after the catch. That ought to vitalize our receiving corps and give more options for Manziel.

Offense (24)
QB: Manziel, McCown, A. Davis
RB: Crowell, Johnson, UDFA/FA
FB: UDFA/FA (Darrell Young from Washington UFA would be a nice signing)
WR-X: Gordon?, Benjamin
WR-Z: Doctson, C. Davis
WR-Y: Hawkins, Spruce
TE: Barnidge, Bibbs, Telfer
LT: Thomas, Miller
LG: Bitonio, Pasztor
C: Erving, Smothers
RG: Greco
RT: Schwartz

Defense (25)
NT: Shelton, Meder
3T: Hughes, Jones
5T: D. Bryant, Cooper
LOLB: A. Bryant, Holmes
SILB: Dansby, Wright
WILB: Smith, Robertson
ROLB: Orchard, Ngakoue
N LB: Mingo
LCB: Haden, Gilbert
RCB: T. Williams, Desir
SCB: K. Williams, IEO
FS: Bell, Stewart
SS: Whitner, Campbell

Special Teams:
K: Oberkrom
P: Lee
LS: Hughlett
ST: Moore

Some might be disappointed that there are only three guys listed as starters (4 if you count the kicker) from this draft. I think it's better we don't push guys into starting roles before they are ready. Wright certainly has the ability to start right away but Dansby I think deserves to keep the job one more year. I'd have Ngakoue in for passing downs as he has some work to do to be a complete player. Holmes will have a learning curve as he's coming from the FCS and a 4-3 defense. Stewart has experience at both FS and nickel back. If Desir can't cut it or someone on the outside gets injured, IEO has experience both inside and outside and Stewart could backfill in the slot.