DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum How many wins does Mike Pettine need to keep his job?

That's the opinion one forms when they confuse business with personal life. It's very rare if ever that an employer informs you ahead of time that you're being fired. That's just business.

I still don't understand why he wouldn't of went back to being more involved with getting the D back on track..

The only thing I can think of is he figured he had another season to get back to the D..

He may have wanted to assure the Offense would be fine under Flip and he would then go back and fix Flop.

I agree Pit...I still cant imagine sitting in front of my boss and having that conversation...then no answer to your future wouldve had me calling the wife and saying get ready to move

Or he is just a crappy coach poke Sorry man I never liked the hire.

I guess I should clarify my earlier post. I just want to make it clear that I'm not calling for Pettines job

with the reports that Coughlin will resign from the NYG on Monday, I'd love for him to come here to kickstart the franchise. He's exactly the type of personality needed to clean house and rebuild IMO.

Coughlin is 70 years old.

"You can't play the same play every game and expect to have the same result because offenses are different. They have key standout players at different positions. I think that's one thing. Other than that, we've been in good situations. It's just a matter of us going out and getting it done. It's hard to say overall without really sitting down and thinking about it.''

Asked if he has been used properly this season, Kruger said:

"Personally, I probably wouldn't say so,'' he said. "I don't have too much more to say about it but I don't think I was utilized in the best way.''

If I had to guess, Pet is probably comparing costs on moving companies as we speak.

Isn't Pettine divorced?

Isn't Pettine divorced?

I really don't believe many of us were asking for too much. At least I wasn't.

To me, it wasn't about the record. I pretty much agree with you that talent is lacking. That's on Farmer.

But I believe if we're both being honest, Pettine has shown nothing to indicate progress in his coaching. You know, the basics that we both learned in high school. Clock management, tackling, using players to their strengths. What I expected to see was improvements in basic coaching fundamentals of the game, which I saw none of.

I try to compartmentalize. The talent falls on the shoulders of the GM. Game management, basic football decisions and game plans fall on the HC and execution falls upon the players. Pettine was a rookie HC last year. I expected a lot of mistakes and saw them. This year I simply expected some of the basic tasks of a HC improve. I believe that's a reasonable expectation. I simply didn't see it.

That's the opinion one forms when they confuse business with personal life. It's very rare if ever that an employer informs you ahead of time that you're being fired. That's just business.

The Browns are what they are today, because of owner Jimmy Haslam.

I seem to recall that Haslam was the "final decider" on Pettine, and really liked him. (as one of the top 2, Banner, IIRC, wanted to wait on the Seahawks DC)

I think about this roster, and especially if we lose guys like Mack, Schwartz, Bademosi, Benjamin, Gipson, and Robertson. (who are all free agents, IIRC .... and who are among the better players on this team right now.

Before the season, a few of tried saying that this team didn't have enough talent to compete for the playoffs. We were lambasted by the very same people who are now demanding that Pet be fired. LOL..........it's like an vinyl record that has a scratch in it and keeps playing the same part of a song over and over and over and over.

Ugh. I figured that Haslam had a good shot, having learned from the Rooneys in Pittsburgh. Instead of following their model of stability, he acts like he never set foot in their headquarter, or paid a bit of attention to how they do things.

I really thought that Junior decided to sell to Haslam because, (beyond the money, obviously, and at least in part) Haslam had some clue because of his time spent as a minority owner in Pittsburgh. Instead, it seems that Junior may have looked for a guy who would make Browns fans look at his time owning the team with fondness.

Because some people are committed to making others look bad.

I know, right! That's almost like a poster blindly saying Haslem was going to take this team to the next level the day after Lerner sold it to him. I mean, who would have been dumb enough to say something like THAT!

Curran: Today's NFL has no patience for 'Next Belichick'
January 2, 2016, 12:00 am
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FOXBORO – Know why there won’t ever be a run of dominance in the NFL like the one Bill Belichick’s presided over since 2001?

Because nobody will have the stomach to allow a head coach to implement a program that is as taxing, focused, ruthless, unapologetic, dictatorial, unsentimental and efficient as the one here in New England.

No owner, group of players or media contingent will be able to countenance an approach like Belichick’s from a coach who hasn’t done what Belichick’s done. And not only has nobody done what he’s done, nobody will ever get the same chance he did.

On Tuesday, the Eagles fired Chip Kelly. He’s the latest coach with an approach similar to Belichick’s to get axed when player pushback, media sniping and negative results became too much for the owner to bear.

Between the personnel misfires, the emotional unavailability and the grumbling of the employees, owner Jeffrey Lurie had all the cause he needed to “release” Kelly.

But the real cause of death there was growing pains. The Eagles couldn’t make it through a painful culture change that Kelly was trying to affect. The current players didn’t get him. And they used the back stairs to Lurie’s office to complain. Meanwhile, the players Kelly jettisoned – and the shrewdness of those decisions can certainly be debated – sniped away at Kelly from their new cities. And the steady, 24-hour, drip-drip-drip of negative coverage wore a canyon in Kelly’s credibility.

But the simple fact the players didn’t like Kelly can either be seen as the genesis or the tipping point for Lurie’s decision.

"I want to engage [the current players] and have them understand and [find] what they felt was lacking, I need to understand," Lurie said in the press conference announcing the shakeup. "Have them understand and take accountability but also at the same time be a sponge for what is leadership like in today's football world. You're dealing with 22 to 35 or more aged people and people who are elite athletes, trying to perform at the very peak of their profession and there's a lot of issues. And what is leadership like in today's world? It's very, very different than it was 10, 15 years ago. I would like to think that we're always gonna try and be on the progressive end of how to lead and that's top-down, but it's also through the head coach and people the head coach surrounds himself with.”

On Thursday, Belichick lamented Kelly’s firing. In doing so, Belichick mentioned other coaches who’d been whisked out quickly when players either bristled at being dealt with too brusquely or clashes with star players ultimately made the owner go weak-kneed. Or both. What happened with Kelly was the same thing that happened with Josh McDaniels in Denver, Greg Schiano in Tampa and Mike Shanahan in Washington. You can throw in Eric Mangini in with the Jets and Cleveland and Scott Pioli’s GM reign in Kansas City as well. Or Jim Harbaugh in San Francisco.

None of them were cuddly enough. None of them had on-field success that would have led to years-long ownership support allowing them to become a ruler like Belichick. All of them lost loud segments of their locker room. All of them were typecast by media as arrogant micromanagers who didn’t work well with others.

They ran out of time. And the process of building a program with one, hard, clear philosophy takes years, as Belichick pointed out Thursday.

“You have to change the culture,” he said. “The coach that comes in usually has a different philosophy than the coach that left, so you have to try to implement that philosophy. That means you’re going to turn over a high percentage of the roster because the players that the other coach had don’t fit the new philosophy, so a lot of the players are going to have to change in part because of the philosophy and probably in part because of the scheme.

“Those role-type players, now that role is not needed in the new scheme and a different role is needed,” Belichick continued. “So you get different players, and then just getting your team acclimated to doing things the way that the philosophy of the new program. You’re going to have to go through a lot of tough situations – tough games, tough losses, tough stretches in the season, whatever it happens to be, to build that up over time.”

In 2000, Robert Kraft was ready for Bill Belichick. Kraft saw the flaws of the collaborative head coach-GM-cap guy/ownership approach he implemented in 1997 after Bill Parcells left. But if Kraft was going to put his trust in a football emperor, he had to believe the emperor didn’t have the same wanderlust of Parcells. Belichick fit.

But the culture change in New England was drastic. Within 18 months, Belichick and Pioli jettisoned Ben Coates, Max Lane, Todd Rucci, Bruce Armstrong, Chris Slade, Larry Whigham, Willie Clay and Andy Katzenmoyer. All were either Pro Bowlers or close friends of quarterback Drew Bledsoe, whose sense of entitlement grew like a weed once Parcells left and Pete Carroll took over.

Terry Glenn was gone before the end of 2001. Bledsoe was gone before the start of 2002. Lawyer Milloy was gone before the start of 2003.

Belichick once said he spent more time trying to reach and gain the trust of Terry Glenn than any other player. Glenn was permanently deactivated one week after catching seven passes for 115 yards and a touchdown against San Diego in the first truly great game of Tom Brady’s career.

Bledsoe was traded within the division less than a year after signing a 10-year, $103-million contract.

Both moves showed unmistakably who was in charge of personnel.

The Milloy move – which came after the Pro Bowl safety and refused to take a pay cut – showed who was in charge of the locker room as well.

None of these moves are that far different than what Kelly was dealing with in Philly. But the winning in 2001 – against all odds – brought Belichick cache Kelly didn’t have.

In ensuing seasons, Belichick would play hardball with Adam Vinatieri, Ty Law, Deion Branch, Richard Seymour, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Adalius Thomas, Wes Welker and Logan Mankins (apologies if I skipped anyone). Hall of Fame-level players. But because he’d rewarded the trust of ownership and fans he was given free reign.

As for the media? After years of grabbing torches and pitchforks after a controversial move and seeing the vast majority of them work out, most of us have gotten to the, “Well, it seems he knows what he’s doing, so let’s let it play out...” mode.

But it’s the deference the players show that’s most unique.

The Patriots run an exceptionally demanding program. The level of off-field mental preparation expected, the conditioning, the scrutiny of social media and regular media interactions, it is – as player after player who comes to the Patriots from other franchises has testified – unique.

It wears on them. A significant number of current Patriots have rolled their eyes during casual conversation with me about the demands in Foxboro. Pro Bowl-level players. Yet almost all of them are on at least their second contract with the team.

In other words, they understand the demands of the program and – onerous as the demands might be – accept them. Because if they play for the Patriots and Belichick, they will enjoy professional success.

There have been dips and spikes over the years and not every player is going to be a Boy Scout or give complete buy-in.
The 2009 team was dysfunctional as hell, the by-product of relaxed standards on the level of professionalism the team was willing to tolerate when signing players. The 2010 draft featured three players from Florida who were ineffective (Jermaine Cunningham), immature (Brandon Spikes) and psychopathic (Aaron Hernandez).

But, generally, the players who either don’t fit – by their choice or the team’s – are excised fairly quickly. Without a lot of drama.

It’s the drama that sometimes winds up being the real undoing for those Who Would Be Belichick. For McDaniels in Denver with Jay Cutler. For Schiano in Tampa with his veteran players. For Shanahan in Washington with RGIII. For Harbaugh in San Fran with his GM. For Kelly in Philly with the players he jettisoned.

A coach who is derelict when it comes to being “liked” or seeking consensus “in the building” can expect to be framed as an arrogant dictator.

And how can a dictator be in touch with the needs of the modern athlete who is at once building his brand, showing his social consciousness and working really, really hard at a sport which could very well leave him physically and mentally incapacitated when he’s done playing?

When Bill Belichick came to New England, only superstars had “brands,” access to players came almost exclusively through newspapers and television, full-pad practices and training camp two-a-days were still in effect and health-and-safety was still in the Dark Ages compared to where it is now.

If 2001 happened in 2015, how would Bill Belichick have dealt with Terry Glenn’s Twitter feed? Or Drew Bledsoe’s weekly Instagram updates as he progressed back from his sheared artery? Or the all-day, all-night debate on Comcast, ESPN, WEEI, 98.5, Facebook and everywhere else as to why Belichick was hell-bent on sticking with Tom Brady when it was Bledsoe’s job and wasn’t this just like Cleveland, just like Cleveland, just like Cleveland?

Would Bill Belichick have gotten the chance to be Bill Belichick?

Yeah, I am the one who follows another poster around and constantly belittles that one person.

Haslam makes me long for the days of Randy.