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I have to admit, I think this structure Haslam is putting in place seems a little unorthodox, but if it works, great. I'm just not sure.
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Damanshot
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Some of those statements prove how dumb Grossi really is.
Anyway.........I was watching ESPN last night and they had Louis Riddick on. He is a guy I really respect. He is a former player [including about 3 or 4 years w/the Browns, pro scout, and Director of Player Personnel in the NFL. He come across as knowledgeable and sincere. He doesn't scream and shout and try to sell stories.
He was being asked about the how good or bad the situations were w/teams who have job openings. When the host got to the Browns, he kinda apologized because Riddick obviously has a soft spot in his heart for the team he once played for.
Riddick's response was short, but to the point: "Too many cooks in the kitchen."
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The only problem is, Sashi"s background does not qualify him for anything or any position, on the football side.
It is not just me, though I was one of the first on this board to say that Sashi is not qualified to run the football side of the franchise...
...it not just me who is pointing out what a dumb move this was by Haslam.
Commenting on the Sashi move, I think Herm Edwards said it best, on how an owner should construct the management structure...you put football people in charge of the football side and get out of the way.
He said the less an owner is seen, the better it is for everyone...and I agree with Herm Edwards. From the Sportsdaily website posted earlier: "With the Browns, he has expanded his responsibilities to include both business and football, dealing with sponsor, media and facility negotiations as well as cap management issues." I don't forsee him picking players rather, I see him as ensuring the numbers add up, players' contracts are well written. Again, he's quality control type guy, not a football guy. Also, I'm just taking my best guess. I could be as far from reality as Star Wars.....
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Here is a pretty good video w/Riddick and Adam Schefter or whatever his name is. http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=14502420 Schefter makes the point that teams hated doing business w/the Browns because everyone w/the Browns was on a different page. Once again...........too many cooks in the kitchen is NOT a good thing.
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I have to admit, I think this structure Haslam is putting in place seems a little unorthodox, but if it works, great. I'm just not sure. IMO, the structure has less importance than the personnel inserted into those positions...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Again...........too many cooks in the kitchen. This is not a desirable job, so who are they going to get to fill those positions?
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Sashi = Jennifer Garner from Draft Day.
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"Too many cooks in the kitchen." A term used before the firings took place. This is nothing new.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Again...........too many cooks in the kitchen. I wonder if a few seasons together would help all the cooks get the recipe right, A learning process that involves learning about each other and yourself.
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The point that Riddick was making is that the GM and HC positions w/the Browns were NOT desirable due to too many cooks in the kitchen.
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Again...........too many cooks in the kitchen. This is not a desirable job, so who are they going to get to fill those positions? It most certainly is a desirable job. Perhaps not the "aura" of the NY Giants, but there are only 32 spots on the planet. We may/may not get our first, or even second choice, but I believe we will get a competent person. Depends on the "alignment"... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Again...........too many cooks in the kitchen. This is not a desirable job, so who are they going to get to fill those positions? It most certainly is a desirable job. Perhaps not the "aura" of the NY Giants, but there are only 32 spots on the planet. We may/may not get our first, or even second choice, but I believe we will get a competent person. Depends on the "alignment"... We got our option #8 candidate a couple of years ago. We should be good this time around.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I have to admit, I think this structure Haslam is putting in place seems a little unorthodox, but if it works, great. I'm just not sure. IMO, the structure has less importance than the personnel inserted into those positions... It could be VERY important to candidates for the jobs.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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The point that Riddick was making is that the GM and HC positions w/the Browns were NOT desirable due to too many cooks in the kitchen. How do you interpret that? Are you implying that Sashi is an extra "layer" that is not needed? It's not the structure that's key, it's the people ("alignment")...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Not to get off topic... But the too many cooks in the kitchen thing..
I was listening to Pagano's Presser this morning..
I always thought they had to many cooks in the kitchen..
I was surprised from what I heard.. That's why I made the comment about having time..
I won't elaborate on it, since this is a Sashi Brown thread...
I'm not going to get negative on any of this until I see what they produce after this season.. Going to try and ride this as level as possible.
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The point that Riddick was making is that the GM and HC positions w/the Browns were NOT desirable due to too many cooks in the kitchen. How do you interpret that? Are you implying that Sashi is an extra "layer" that is not needed? It's not the structure that's key, it's the people ("alignment")... I don't think Riddick's comments have anything to do with the specifics of what is going on after the firings but rather a epidemic under Haslem in general. Too many cooks could mean several things..... - Farmer texting to coaches - Banner making all decisions and not being a football guy - Haslem drafting Manziel - Lombardi leaking news to LaConfora because he doesn't like his role - Scheiner thinking he is a football guy and wanting to be in on bigger football decisions. - Pettine wanting certain players like Gilbert It isn't about what's happened over the past 48 hours. It's about 2013, 2014, and 2015. This isn't a new narrative....it's just being regurgitated by a different media person. "Too many cooks" "Stay in your lane" "People need to focus on THEIR job." People can coin it any way they want to, but it is all the same.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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How do I interpret that? Uhhmmmmm, because I watched it on ESPN and that is what he said. I hope you are not confusing what he said last night w/the video I posted? Those are two separate segments. I posted the video from a couple of days ago to show that having too many voices was a problem for the Browns the past couple of years. I quoted Riddick's comments from last night to demonstrate that there are still too many voices in the decision making process. The point is that better candidates are not going to find this job attractive. A second point is that having so many voices makes it harder to get things done, especially when you add both Haslam's being involved. I am wondering why you always act so incredulous when I make my points? You did the same thing when I forecasted the problems w/The Big Show and then again w/the dysfunction w/Farmer and Pet. The stuff ends up happening and you are still acting like my points are far-fetched. 
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Scheiner thinking he is a football guy and wanting to be in on bigger football decisions. Curious to know what all happened with that talk... Putting Sashi in place quiets Scheiner up ?
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Putting Sashi in place quiets Scheiner up ? I don't know. Sashi is a VP, Scheiner is President. Perhaps he reports to Alec. I'm honestly not sure of the reporting hierarchy.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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Okay thanks Memphis,
I went over to the Browns web site and looked up the Front office...
Lots of names and titles...
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.... too many voices in the decision making process. I am tripping over the "too many voices" bit. I don't see this new structure as being detrimental to the decision-making process. Even when I was in the business world (now retired), I was never big on the organizational structure so much as on the people that make a process effective (or if you prefer, the "alignment"). Am I correct in interpreting your post that the HC and "GM" reporting to Sashi is too many cooks? Please note that I am leaving out Haslam as I don't believe that he will be a major player in the process. I simply don't see a problem here as long as the key guys are on the same page...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 01/05/16 10:45 AM.
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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At this point different is good. What we have been doing has been nothing but failure.
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You can believe what you want to believe.
However, I don't think I am out-of-line when I cite sources w/professional experience that agree w/my beliefs.
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How is it really different?
It sounds the same..........too many different voices making decisions.
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You can believe what you want to believe.
However, I don't think I am out-of-line when I cite sources w/professional experience that agree w/my beliefs. As long as you don't go loco when other posters use sources with professional experience that agree w/ their beliefs and conflict with yours.
Last edited by MemphisBrownie; 01/05/16 10:48 AM.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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You can believe what you want to believe.
However, I don't think I am out-of-line when I cite sources w/professional experience that agree w/my beliefs. I respect your post(s), or I wouldn't bother to reply to them. I guess the difference here is that I don't see the "too many cooks". Simply my POV...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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How is it really different?
It sounds the same..........too many different voices making decisions. How many "voices" do most teams have compared to the Browns? You keep saying this, but I dont know that it is true. Repeating it over and over again doesnt make it so.
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When the voices are shouting over each other, not communicating the same thing and working to different agendas, the number is irrelevant. They're just too many.
I know this is just semantics, but the "stay in your lane" phrase, to me, seems to be the most accurate for the Browns recent issues (moreso than the number of voices and/or) cooks.
You had the Pres watching film and may or may not have been trying to insert himself into that process. You have a GM who was trying to coach. You had an owner who may or may not have selected draft picks. That's "stay in your lane".
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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It appeared no one Owned their lane..
As a result a big pile up occurred..The lanes are being cleared and getting ready to open back up.
Hope the next group can keep it flowing smoothly, by staying in their own lane.
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Doesn't it have to be better IF SB is Haslam's guy to MAKE sure everyone stays in their lane?
I see this responsibility AND him being a voice of reason in the room when there is a disconnect on a player that the GM (talent guy if you will) and the HC are discussing.
I don't see 3 people as being "too many cooks in the kitchen". These 3 guys NEED to be on the same page (for the most part).
SB also needs to be able to tell Haslam "No Jimmy, that isn't a good idea" on draft day. If he is able to do that, then I see progress being made.
After 55 years, I'm walking away from this dumpster fire. Good luck to everyone who continues to hang on. You'll need it.
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Sashi Browns will have the final say on the roster and draft, The GM will have input ... or something. The coach .. I assume .... might have final say on the game day roster.
Gee ... what could go wrong with this arrangement.
Ugh. :puke: Can Sashi possibly make us worse? Will Sashi lose us more games? Sa-shi! Sa-shi! Sa-shi!
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Okay, so guys that have been in the league have no idea what they are talking about....... LOL..........y'all kill me.
How many teams have a guy w/no football experience having the ultimate say on the roster?
You guys saying this is some new, innovative plan over and over doesn't make it true.
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When the voices are shouting over each other, not communicating the same thing and working to different agendas, the number is irrelevant. They're just too many.
I know this is just semantics, but the "stay in your lane" phrase, to me, seems to be the most accurate for the Browns recent issues (moreso than the number of voices and/or) cooks.
You had the Pres watching film and may or may not have been trying to insert himself into that process. You have a GM who was trying to coach. You had an owner who may or may not have selected draft picks. That's "stay in your lane". That's not all bad either - cross training can be beneficial in creating a shared language The biggest problem was jimmy can't be there all the time and there was a power void tweddle dumb (farmer) and tweetle dumber (pet) fought over Now they have a trusted resource on site 24/7/365 Could there be conflict between the adulterer and shashimi in the future ? Potentially but there are pretty clear lines drawn with jimmys direct reports now. A coach should love this - he will / should have as much pull as he can influence with his boss regarding personal (some control without the baggage of owning it). The GM is the position marginalized - but so what - a good GM is hard to get - and hot upandcomers are a crap shoot
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Again...........too many cooks in the kitchen. I wonder if a few seasons together would help all the cooks get the recipe right, A learning process that involves learning about each other and yourself. It depends on whether or not these cooks will conform to the recipe or if every one of them want to add their own special touch. I'm a chef. I decide the recipe and my cooks cook that recipe. Haslam needs to figure out who his chef is and maybe it's Sashi...
#gmstrong.
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j/c...
A lot of sound bites and so many know exactly how this is going to work and as usual - WE ARE DOOMED...lol I just would like to investigate this process and see how it evolves into SOMETHING...
1. Sashi Brown was one of the first Hires of Banner. One thing about Banner he was a genius at most of his Hires the kid has pluses galore and pretty smart.
2. Control of the roster. If this guy is as smart as he is suppose to be. Possibly he will let the scouts and Personnel people do their job and he will have the last word and his contribution will be
a. Cap how does this fit in the cap and should they rethink the move.
b. Checks and Balances...like hey did you know about this flag - doesn't it concern you and if not why?
Who hear knows...right away its Him micromanaging all the picks and FA decisions...REALLY do you all really belive that?
3. I love the way we are all experts in how it should be done and WHO WE SHOULD PICK and who we should sign in FA and yet...has anyone of us had experience in the NFL. This sort of falls under throwing stones if you have not sinned go ahead thingy.
I know we got to express ourselves...its q crappy time and it comes Way too often for the most of us.
4. Because this is all Haslam one would tend to believe this is the program he is going to give its 5 years at the least to evolve. This is his call from top to bottom if there is no quick trigger it will be for this regime...thank goodness.
5. And yes, this guy better be brilliant! If so it could work. If he's out of his league totally...we are screwed.
But again if we stick to continuity there might be progress regardless.
6. We have to see who the HC will be.
7. We will have to see how hand in hand the GM will be with the HC.
8. I think Football side the HC is going to be HEAD CHEF...to eliminate too many cooks in the kitchen...All will know it will be HIS KITCHEN. Thats how I envision this...will it be that way???
I'm in wait and see mode. Yeah I know the odds are in everyones favor to damn the future of this regime.
Me I'm betting on the Underdog and reap those big dividends 
Just who I am. Nothing less or more.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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To cross train someone you need to have someone that already knows how to do it to do the training. Having the guy you put in charge figure it out as he goes is not going to work.
I already hate this idea, but can see one way where this might work.
If his sole purpose is to keep situations like what happened with Bowe this year from happening again, (The GM keeps dead weight on the roster to save face from a bad signing and the HC refuses to play an obvious turd.) it might work.
He is a lawyer after all. Take both GM and HC into your office. Have them state their cases. Look at the Cap implications. Make a decision.
If he tries to do any more than that, this is doomed on many levels.
The best scouts have years of training and experience under their belts and still fail pretty often on evaluations.
He is not going to be able to take a home-study course and wing it from there.
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The video was interesting. Both guys made some good points.
Going forward I am going to to take a wait and see approach.
I don't Haslam. My only exposure is through the Browns. I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not much choice really.
It is easy to look at billionaires and not like them. Guys like Modell, Jerry Jones, Snyder, Irsay are not likeable characters. Haslam doesn't appear to be any different. In most cases though these men who made their fortunes( not inherited) don't lack intelligence. In addition they are very competitive.
Haslam I believe really wants to win. I like that he has taken ownership of the failures under his watch. He is correct. The failures lie at his doorstep.
The NFL is no easy nut to crack. Haslam is in a learn as you go mode. The key here is: Is he learning?
Everybody is freaking out about Sashi Brown because of the statement that he has final say on the roster. His background and area of expertise is clear for all to see.
Pat McManamon ESPN Staff Writer makes some good points:
"He was not a football guy. He will be involved in hiring guys to do their jobs, take their input and make a decision on a player's value and worth.
That will be Brown's role. People who know him say he will not overstep his expertise, that he will take the input needed and go with what the people hired to do the job believe.
"I think there’s an opportunity for us to work much closer together going forward than we have in the past," Haslam said.
The system may not be typical, but Haslam said he studied the Packers, Patriots and Seahawks and all are run differently. His conclusion: There is not a single set way to win.
The concern: The job descriptions might preclude a strong-minded individual from either the GM or coaching jobs.
A coach who wants control of personnel a la Bill Belichick won't fit in this model, and a GM who wants to oversee personnel also won't fit. The risk is that a strong GM won't want to be a GM who is in essence a personnel director, and a strong coach won't want to share player personnel responsibility.
"I think it’s up to us if we have that right person to convince them this is a great place to come and coach," Haslam said.
Haslam has been all over the board in his hirings and firings.
He had a strong CEO in Joe Banner.
He got rid of the CEO and had the GM and coach on equal footing reporting to him.
Now he gets a third try.
In the end it is about results. People are responsible for the results. If the Haslam hires the right people maybe its will work.
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“Mark it down: I will never trade with the Steelers, the Ravens or the Bengals.”
YES!!!! No. We fleeced the Steelers last time we traded with them.
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j/c... the thing that I think most folks are overlooking with the new alignment is that we don't need a great "GM" because Sashi will be handling many of the duties typically done by the GM in addition to his scouting/player personnel duties.
All we need is a kick-ass personnel guy, that can bring in some kick-ass scouts. A guy that knows how to spot real football talent. All of the day-to-day managerial stuff that a GM in the old sense won't even be on his plate... he's simply going to be the guy that ties together the Player Personnel & College Personnel scouting departments.
Before that, however, we need the coach that is going to own this team.... that is FAR more important, and it is why it is happening first.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sashi Brown is Promoted VP Ops
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